Questions about OOBEs

[Alexander]

This is a good question. Basically there is not much that can be done for them, other than to inspire people to take up a fruitful contemplative life when in a physical body.

Got it. Well, it’s an interesting universe. I remember when I was a teenager learning the different possibilities: is it a nihilistic universe (no souls)? Is it one life like the Christians and Muslims say? Or is it reincarnation, etc? I remember when I first learned the Buddhist cosmology, I thought it was so positive, that we can return as a ghost, deva, etc. So, it sounds like it is something in between: that there is a continuity, but without self-awareness in the sleep state we have no control. And, it seems what humanity focuses in on in our spiritual work is incorrect: that it is not “being a good person,” for instance, like the Christians say, that is important, but, rather, our level of meditative attainment. And, the philosophical problem of reincarnation is really not pursued at all (except in India).

I have a few more questions for you:

1 What exactly, Jeff, *is* a dream? Is it actually a spiritual projection, but in an unconscious way?

2 A bigger question—what do you make of the four stages of enlightenment? I just checked now and the Buddha does teach them himself in the canon. (They weren’t a later addition.) They suggest there is a continuity of self based on nature (not meditation): ie, a streamwinner only incarnates seven more times, etc.

3 Have you inquired into the states of our spiritual friends—Sam and Stu—when OOB? Are they doing OK?

[Jhanananda]

Got it. Well, it’s an interesting universe. I remember when I was a teenager learning the different possibilities: is it a nihilistic universe (no souls)? Is it one life like the Christians and Muslims say? Or is it reincarnation, etc? I remember when I first learned the Buddhist cosmology, I thought it was so positive, that we can return as a ghost, deva, etc. So, it sounds like it is something in between: that there is a continuity, but without self-awareness in the sleep state we have no control. And, it seems what humanity focuses in on in our spiritual work is incorrect: that it is not “being a good person,” for instance, like the Christians say, that is important, but, rather, our level of meditative attainment. And, the philosophical problem of reincarnation is really not pursued at all (except in India).

I have a few more questions for you:

I agree with most of this, but wholesome behavior is essential early Buddhism, as it is in early Christianity; and in both cases the wholesome states are referred to as "fruit."

1 What exactly, Jeff, *is* a dream? Is it actually a spiritual projection, but in an unconscious way?

In my experience when we travel Out-of-Body on the lowest levels then we encounter people who are either dead, or dreaming. So, people who are dreaming are often interacting with other people who are either alive but dreaming, or dead.

2 A bigger question—what do you make of the four stages of enlightenment? I just checked now and the Buddha does teach them himself in the canon. (They weren’t a later addition.) They suggest there is a continuity of self based on nature (not meditation): ie, a streamwinner only incarnates seven more times, etc.

We have discussed this here several times. There is a definite relationship between the four stages of enlightenment and the 8 stages of samadhi.

3 Have you inquired into the states of our spiritual friends—Sam and Stu—when OOB? Are they doing OK?

No, I have not checked out Stu and Sam while Out-of-Body, but I am sure they are both dead. These days when I travel Out-of-Body I don't have a destination. I just go wherever I am taken.

[Alexander]

Got it. Thanks for dialoguing with me

Some more questions:

1 Is it possible to go backward in time when OOB? Forward?

2 Is there a multiverse? Or only one universe?

3 In Buddhism the Buddha initially didn’t want to teach, but only began his ministry after being asked to by a deva. Based on your experience we should read this as a real event, correct?

4 Have you found there is a continuity of personality traits across lifetimes?

5 Do you believe in fate or destiny? It would seem karma would require destiny but we often do not see its operation in the world.

6 OOB forums like to say we are learning and spiritually evolving over our many lifetimes. But it’s more like a prison-state we’re drawn into, correct?

[Jhanananda]

Got it. Thanks for dialoguing with me

Some more questions:

1 Is it possible to go backward in time when OOB? Forward?

Yes, I have gone backwards in time many times to visit previous lifetimes, and even relive the entirety of some. The furthest that I have gone back in time I experienced at during my first 10-day meditation retreat in the winter of 1975 when I watched the faces of all of my previous lifetimes pass before my eye back to Neanderthal about 50,000 years ago. I have had no experience with moving forward in time.

2 Is there a multiverse? Or only one universe?

The multiverse hypothesis seems like a reasonable description of the astral plane, but I have no experience traveling to other physical universes, so I see no reason to believe in it.

3 In Buddhism the Buddha initially didn’t want to teach, but only began his ministry after being asked to by a deva. Based on your experience we should read this as a real event, correct?

This sounds like apocrypha. In the Pali Canon the day following Siddhartha's night of enlightenment he is said to have encountered several people to whom he said he was a 'Buddha.' They all said, "That's nice." Then hurried off. This makes more sense to me.

4 Have you found there is a continuity of personality traits across lifetimes?

Yes.

5 Do you believe in fate or destiny? It would seem karma would require destiny but we often do not see its operation in the world.

No

6 OOB forums like to say we are learning and spiritually evolving over our many lifetimes. But it’s more like a prison-state we’re drawn into, correct?

I find both hypotheses reasonable. It just depends upon which one you identity with.

[Alexander]

Magnificent. Thanks

1 What should we make of aliens? I remember you said before we should view abduction stories as misunderstood OOBEs. Are aliens nonphysical beings? Or is it all illusion?

2 How should we interpret Christ? He doesn’t appear to be a contemplative in the Gospels. Do you think that he was? His teaching is magnificent (and we would all hope martyrdom leads to heaven), but it doesn’t seem to be the correct path if we should be focusing on meditation and astral projection.

3 Is there a geography to the spirit world? For example if you go to a certain place is it in a “fixed” location?

4 Are the sights in a place in the spirit world constant/consistent?

5 Are there sex heavens like the Buddha describes in the suttas?

6 Do you think the Dalai Lama is the return of the same individual? Or is it a delusion?

7 In your past lives did you observe an increasing holiness or mysticism with each one? Do you think you diminished the fetters prior to this life?

8 Is there a World of the Forms like in Plato’s teaching? Are there perfect “Ideas” in the spirit world that are the origins of physical objects?

[Jhanananda]

Magnificent. Thanks

1 What should we make of aliens? I remember you said before we should view abduction stories as misunderstood OOBEs. Are aliens nonphysical beings? Or is it all illusion?

I had many encounters with space aliens in the first few years after I began nightly OOBEs. Eventually I came to realize that space aliens on the astral plane is like many aspects of the astral plane. It is mostly a delusional domain where like-minded beings participate in the delusion.

2 How should we interpret Christ? He doesn’t appear to be a contemplative in the Gospels. Do you think that he was? His teaching is magnificent (and we would all hope martyrdom leads to heaven), but it doesn’t seem to be the correct path if we should be focusing on meditation and astral projection.

To understand Jesus is to understand that the New Testament is mostly propaganda developed by a form of Christianity which appears to have developed in the 4th century.  The first Naicean council was under Constantine I and he rejected they Jesus is God hypothesis and banished Athanacius who was the main proponent of Trinitarianism, and championed Arius, who was the main proponent of monotheistic Christianity which was a characteristic of Aryan Christianity.

3 Is there a geography to the spirit world? For example if you go to a certain place is it in a “fixed” location?

There are no fixed locations in the astral plane other than up. It is layered like an onion.

4 Are the sights in a place in the spirit world constant/consistent?

There are no constants in the astral plane. It is mostly a plane of infinite delusions projected by infinite beings.

5 Are there sex heavens like the Buddha describes in the suttas?

Yes, in the lower astral.

6 Do you think the Dalai Lama is the return of the same individual? Or is it a delusion?

When the Dalai Lama interprets the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path as "concentration" he proves he is nothing more than a clown in a constume.

7 In your past lives did you observe an increasing holiness or mysticism with each one? Do you think you diminished the fetters prior to this life?

For most of my previous lifetime I have returned for the benefit of others to keep alive the path of enlightenment through mysticism.

8 Is there a World of the Forms like in Plato’s teaching? Are there perfect “Ideas” in the spirit world that are the origins of physical objects?

Perhaps, if we consider the ideal forms originate in the upper realms of the astral.

[Alexander]

Magnificent, thank you

[Alexander]

Someone recently asked on a Buddhist forum, “what reincarnates if consciousness is not-self?” and I wanted to ask the same question.

[Jhanananda]

Someone recently asked on a Buddhist forum, “what reincarnates if consciousness is not-self?” and I wanted to ask the same question.

In answering we have to start with understanding that Buddhism, like most religions, has been taken over by a pretentious and hypocritical priesthood who have hijacked the religion, and how we know that is none of them know what the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path is.

If we read the first sutta in the long discourse DN-1 we clearly see Siddhartha Gautama neither rejected nor accepted a concept of a self. Secondly even today psychiatry, psychology, neurology and cognitive "sciences" do not know what a self is, and we know this because they do not understand the 8 stages of depth in meditation, nor do they accept people have Near-Death-Experiences, or have Out-of-Body Experiences. So, to answer your question from the point of view of a dedicated contemplative who has traveled Out-of-Body every night for the last 50 years, is terminally ill and has had many Near-Death-Experiences, and has relived entire past lives; then what reincarnates fits the description of 'soul' or 'atman' as described by the major mystics. Whereas, the identity which most people have some awareness of is a combination of cognitive functions which are a product of neurology and experience plus 'soul'. When we leave the body we leave the idenetity.

[Alexander]

Thanks that makes a lot more sense. It’s why I preferred Hinduism for many years over Buddhism. Since if there’s reincarnation, the one default would be a “consciousness” that returns birth after birth.

[Alexander]

I don’t want to get too “out there” with my questions but what is the smallest being with a soul? I assume a mouse has one? What about insects? Cells in the body?

[Jhanananda]

I don’t want to get too “out there” with my questions but what is the smallest being with a soul? I assume a mouse has one? What about insects? Cells in the body?

I haven't been interested in this, so I don't know, but I have recovered lifetimes as animals, including fish, so I don't see why tardigrades don't have souls.

[Alexander]

Got it. So maybe the difference should be between alive but not self-aware (trees, cells) and alive and self-aware (small animals and larger).

What is “God”?

[Jhanananda]

Got it. So maybe the difference should be between alive but not self-aware (trees, cells) and alive and self-aware (small animals and larger).

Animate verses inanimate life? I don't know

What is “God”?

Well, it depends upon how your define "god." If "god" for you is a benevolent creator god who created the heavens and earth 5,000 years ago, then I don't buy that at all. To me such a belief is seriously delusional. On the other hand if you are willing to consider that "god" is the source of love, and a pervasive consciousness throughout the universe, both physical and nonphysical, that is the god I have had experience with in the 8th stage of samma-samadhi.

[Alexander]

So would you say "God" is an impersonal force? Is it a super-consciousness that includes every individual "I"? If there is this sublime, transcendent source of love -- should we conclude it's unable to alleviate the suffering and harshness of the physical universe?