Sign Gifts

[Jhanananda]

The Christian Gospels quote Jesus referring to fruit in specific ways.

"For each tree is known by its fruit.“(Luke 6:44).
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?" Matthew 7:16
"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit." Matthew 12:33

Since the term for fruit in Pali and Sanskrit had a double meaning, and in a religion specifically referred to spiritual attainments, then we Charismatic Christianity believe the references for fruit in the Christian Gospels refer specifically to the results of leading a righteous life would be the attainment of spiritual gifts, and those gifts are described in Acts where the disciples of Jesus gathered together over Pentecost and manifested various charisms, which are also known as sign-gifts.  This forum is dedicated to the discussion of these gifts and how they are very much like the 'fruit' that are described in Indic literature.

[Soren]

It is also a clear warning of teachers that [will] claim to be enlightened or have a sort of special knowledge but don't demonstrate moral behavior.

[Jhanananda]

Hello again, Soren, I am not sure what you are implying here.  Yes, there is a clear warning in Buddhism, not Christianity, regarding false claims of enlightenment.  When it became evident within the Buddhist community that I had acquired spiritual gifts, charisms, jhana-nimitta, I was marginalized by the meditation teachers and Buddhist priests in this region claiming that I had "fallen for the powers."

My point all along in these 12 years of going public on my spiritual attainments was not to dazzle people with my accomplishments, but to point out that there are many within the contemplative community, who are acquiring such attainments, and these attainments, spiritual gifts, charisms, jhana-nimitta, are normal and natural product of leading a rigorous, self-aware, ethical contemplative life.

Whereas, I have met Buddhist monks/priests who thought that all they had to do was put on the robes to be enlightened.  And, there are several Buddhist priests who still today have a great deal of followers; whereas those Buddhist monks/priests were notorious for drugs, sex, greed, etc.

So, Soren, the injunction against claiming enlightenment, and avoiding the "powers" is more typically used by the fraudulent meditation teachers and priests to marginalize the genuinely enlightened.

[Soren]

Hello again, Soren, I am not sure what you are implying here.  Yes, there is a clear warning in Buddhism, not Christianity, regarding false claims of enlightenment.  When it became evident within the Buddhist community that I had acquired spiritual gifts, charisms, jhana-nimitta, I was marginalized by the meditation teachers and Buddhist priests in this region claiming that I had "fallen for the powers."

My point all along in these 12 years of going public on my spiritual attainments was not to dazzle people with my accomplishments, but to point out that there are many within the contemplative community, who are acquiring such attainments, and these attainments, spiritual gifts, charisms, jhana-nimitta, are normal and natural product of leading a rigorous, self-aware, ethical contemplative life.

Whereas, I have met Buddhist monks/priests who thought that all they had to do was put on the robes to be enlightened.  And, there are several Buddhist priests who still today have a great deal of followers; whereas those Buddhist monks/priests were notorious for drugs, sex, greed, etc.

So, Soren, the injunction against claiming enlightenment, and avoiding the "powers" is more typically used by the fraudulent meditation teachers and priests to marginalize the genuinely enlightened.

I wasn't making any statement about you, and I wasn't trying to say that we should avoid the powers. I was just saying that the statement "For each tree is known by its fruit" is a good guideline for evaluating the authenticity of a teacher. For example, if teacher x is not leading an ethical life but his students justify it by saying that he is serving a "higher purpose" - we can know that this isn't a reasonable appeal.

[Jhanananda]

...I was just saying that the statement "For each tree is known by its fruit" is a good guideline for evaluating the authenticity of a teacher. For example, if teacher x is not leading an ethical life but his students justify it by saying that he is serving a "higher purpose" - we can know that this isn't a reasonable appeal.

Thank-you Soren, this was my message in tying Luke 6:44 to the Samana-Phala Sutta (DN-2) and the Phala chapter of the Yoga Sutras, together.  Thus, one of the fruit that we would expect in a meditation master is going to leading an ethical lifestyle.  When we do that, then most of the gurus of the last 60 years will be proven to be frauds.