Author Topic: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis  (Read 13489 times)

Jhanananda

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Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« on: December 14, 2012, 10:58:12 PM »

Hello friends, while researching the toxic byproducts of pyrolysis I came across a reference to suicide.  Apparently some suicides make toxic chemicals to kill themselves with, which happen to also be a byproduct of pyrolysis.  It turns out that suicide is one of the leading causes of death in most nations, and some nations are more prone to suicide deaths than others.

Coming across this reference to suicide reminded of an essay I wrote a number of years ago called, Suicide in the Sangha.  In the article I pointed out that there are a number of references to suicide in the suttas. What I wanted to address in this essay is the Spiritual Crisis that often brings someone to thoughts of suicide.

Suicides are often the product of some failure in one’s life.  It is either economic crisis or emotional crisis.  With the collapsing economy for the last decade, which was brought on by rapacious greed of the wealthy, there have been many people who have lost their jobs, their homes, and their loved ones.  This economic and emotional crisis brought them to feel that life had no meaning for them, so they killed themselves.

It is worth pointing at that when over one million people die by suicide every year, and suicide is the 13th leading cause of death worldwide, then we have to conclude that civilization is a hopeless failure for millions of people.  What I would like to also point out is, when someone finds nothing in life sufficiently compelling to remain alive, then they have the right conditions for renouncing the world and going forth as a contemplative mendicant.  Because, for success in the contemplative life, one has to completely let go of all worldly attachments to meditate with sufficient depth to have the profound and life-changing religious experience to become a mystic.

This means that if the million people who commit suicide world wide every year took up the contemplative mendicant lifestyle instead, then this world would be radically changed.  So, I wish to encourage those who are feeling desperate to consider the contemplative mendicant lifestyle first, before suicide.
Quote
Wiki
Suicide (Latin suicidium, from sui caedere, "to kill oneself") is the act of intentionally causing one's own death. Suicide is often committed out of despair, the cause of which can be attributed to a mental disorder such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, alcoholism, or drug abuse.[1] Stress factors such as financial difficulties or troubles with interpersonal relationships often play a significant role.[2]
Over one million people die by suicide every year. The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that it is the 13th leading cause of death worldwide[3] and the National Safety Council rates it sixth in the United States.[4] It is a leading cause of death among teenagers and adults under 35.[5][6] The rate of suicide is far higher in men than in women, with males worldwide three to four times more likely to kill themselves than females.[7][8] There are an estimated 10 to 20 million non-fatal attempted suicides every year worldwide.[9]





« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 11:30:58 PM by Jhanananda »
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Alexander

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 01:21:51 AM »
Interesting fact is that men kill themselves three times more than women, but for every one man who commits suicide, there are three suicide attempts committed by women (ie they don't succeed).

I have always considered the life of the renunciate to be, effectively, a kind of suicide, to one's former (material) life, one's friends, family, work, ideas about oneself, etc. I have never made that kind of renunciation outwardly. But I have inwardly, in my intentions.
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Cybermonk

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 10:20:07 AM »
Aloha to ya Jeffrey,

Great article!! I'm happy to find you still using this dimension.
I just got up and running on the net again.

Personally, I support your encouragement to folks with suicide
leanings, to go within and let existence unfold. A nice mellow
"out of body" experience would be helpful.

Kimo
 

Jhanananda

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 12:45:39 PM »
Thanks, Kimo, good to see you on here.  Yes, if one were planning on doing one's self in, and one had not given up everything for the contemplative life, then it seems worth trying anyone to see if life improves with a little bliss, joy, and ecstasy.
Interesting fact is that men kill themselves three times more than women, but for every one man who commits suicide, there are three suicide attempts committed by women (ie they don't succeed).
Yes, aglorincz, I noticed that fact.  Maybe men are more determined when it comes to suicide, or women are looking for help and get it more frequently than men do?
I have always considered the life of the renunciate to be, effectively, a kind of suicide, to one's former (material) life, one's friends, family, work, ideas about oneself, etc. I have never made that kind of renunciation outwardly. But I have inwardly, in my intentions.
I agree on this point to, aglorincz.  Renunciation is like social suicide.  Back when I renounced the world I was desperate to do so, and if I had not done so soon, then it was going to be suicide for real.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 01:08:35 PM by Jhanananda »
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Cybermonk

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 01:51:37 AM »
Well... I too at one point wanted release from the knowledge i had gained.
Slowly opening the tap of existence is what I now employ in my ravels  I personalty
believe suicide attempts are  really a beings attempt at damage control. 
Discovering the central theme in suicide attempts, is a task for trained professionals for sure.

A while ago I watched a movie called "Riverworld". The theme was on suicide and
the characters would kill themselves at the first sign of distress. However, they would return to consciousness in the same world, but in a new place, their injury
healed and their age the same. They had many dialogues with each other, some
of the characters had been dead many times. At the end of the movie, the main character realized that the only way to end his existence was to remove all energy  from himself, to undo all the patterns he had constructed over the millions
 of lifetimes.
It a cool movie, heck it out sometime.
Kimo

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 02:39:50 PM »
Thanks, Kimo, good to see you on here.  Yes, if one were planning on doing one's self in, and one had not given up everything for the contemplative life, then it seems worth trying anyone to see if life improves with a little bliss, joy, and ecstasy.
I agree on this point to, aglorincz.  Renunciation is like social suicide.  Back when I renounced the world I was desperate to do so, and if I had not done so soon, then it was going to be suicide for real.

I'm posting here because I am curious how others have dealt with these feelings. I know others here must have felt at some point that their life is just too much(or too little).This isn't at all the first time it's been like this, but I had a recent bout with these feelings at 2:48 AM the day after Christmas. I just woke up in the middle of the night and found myself looped in my own failures, and an overall non understanding of what my life is, has been, and will be. With that was a feeling of worthlessness about my anxiety because at the same time because, as I read somewhere else from Jhanananda, I'm pretty much just a speck on a teeny damp dirt particle floating through space.

Now that part of it didn't bother me as badly because I know I'm not the only speck feeling that way. But there was just this overall feeling like I just don't understand, anything. I realized I don't really know how to take care of my body or my loved ones, even though I try. I keep getting told and feeling like I'm going to go insane if I go too far in meditation alone. I don't know where I am spiritually, and I have no physical guidance. How do I know the energy I feel is not just the first jhana, and that I am already feeling overwhelmed by it. I feel like I'll never have the guts to face my demons alone. I also hate feeling like if I died tomorrow or found out I had cancer(or whatever), I would be so afraid. Its like I just don't know who I am or where I am going, and it really just stings sometimes.

I apologize if I come off as weak or crazy, but honestly I just need some advice if anyone can offer it. This is the aspect of myself that I was saying feels like it is lurking around inside, even during those times when I've felt more stable.

Michel

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2013, 03:17:35 PM »
Hello rougeleader. I am no stranger to depression and suicidal thoughts. But, you are not powerless. You must put an end to these obsessive dark thoughts that are going round and round in your mind. The primary cause of your depression is not your situation, but your thoughts about it. It's your thoughts that are creating your negative emotions. So one must learn to let go of those thoughts by keeping the mind silent as much as possible. Become a master of your own thoughts -- think only when you must.

I strongly recommend reading Eckhart Tolle's book, "The Power of Now: A Guide To Spiritual Awakening." This book is perfect for you; it will lift you out of your depression. There you will learn to deal with the negative thoughts that cause these feelings, that they are just thoughts, and that they are a creation of your ego, and have nothing to do with reality. So why should you take these thoughts seriously since most thoughts are just utter and complete nonsense. So, you will learn how to deal with these thoughts. You will feel empowered; that you can actually do something. See also his other book "Practicing the Power of Now."

Both these books are available from Amazon.com. See here:

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388243025&sr=1-3&keywords=eckhart+tolle

'The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Awakening" is also available in PDF format for free: http://www.baytallaah.com/bookspdf/51.pdf

If you can, avoid seeing a psychiatrist.

I have dealt broadly with your problem, I think, and I know that I haven't addressed all of your concerns expressed in your post. So I'll leave that to the more experienced. But I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 06:24:07 PM by Michel »

rougeleader115

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2013, 07:26:21 PM »
Hello Michel,

It is nice to hear from you :), and thank you so much for the links to the book and for the advice. It is good to know that I am not powerless against these thoughts and feelings, and that you have found relief from them. I will download the pdf and begin working on stilling the mind outside of meditation. Thank you too for telling me to avoid a psychiatrist, sometimes I worry I need to, but I feel they will most definitely diagnosis me with something and try to dose me up, so I try to avoid taking that action. Even if this doesn't cure all of my issues, I'm sure it will help because it seems you have been in a similar situation of depression and confusion.

And yes anyone else who sees something to be added please do, it will be much appreciated.

Jhanananda

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 12:23:39 AM »
Hello, rougeleader115, and thank-you for posting your honest inquiry into suicidal thoughts.  And, thank-you, Michel, for posting your wise advice, because when we still the mind, then there are no positive or negative thoughts, and bliss is just around the corner, which is going to give us a lot more reason to live.

My object in discussing suicide is multifaceted.

1) Deep meditation tends to lead to a non-dual experience, which tends to bring us to how utterly trivial and futile the material existence is.
2) Deep meditation also tends to lead us to seeing our underlying neuroses, which is critical to see, if we are going to meditate deeply; however, it can lead to deep depression and a sense of futility, especially when we realize that our years and decades of deep meditation will not lead to being treat with respect by any meditation teacher or community.
3) Most importantly 11% of all death globally are due to suicide, so I wanted to put the word out to anyone pondering suicide to consider giving up everything to take up a rigorous, self-ware contemplative life.  Just think what would happen to this world, if 11% of the human all decided one day to give up everything and become a rigorous, self-ware contemplative life?

So, rougeleader115, if you just cannot stand the worldly life any more, then just give it up, and take up a full-time rigorous, self-ware contemplative life.  Become a mendicant.  I can help you figure it out.
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Jhanon

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 03:08:51 AM »
Hi RougeLeader,

YES, I have been in that situation many times. Although I will only touch on the big stuff here, be assured that I can relate. Just bare with me as I ramble a bit about my own experience. If nothing else, it will provide some solace for a few moments. But I suspect some of it will gift you insight into your situation. I am also glad to see others posting in support of you. Thank you.

My whole life I wanted to kill myself so badly, so many times. I was so frustrated with my inability to control myself and to fit into everyone's box. I couldn't keep the jobs I was told to get and keep. I wasn't really interested in anything suggested to me to do with my life. I tried so hard to be motivated toward worldly affairs like jobs, education, houses and relationships, but after 20 years I can confidently say it was and never will be there--although I did a good job of faking it to myself. (Yet it is worth mentioning that I have discovered an endless reservoir of motivation and energy for the path of meditation and helping others along it, as I'm sure you will or have noticed by the length of my posts.)

No matter how hard I tried to take care of myself and others--I couldn't keep it up for long, no matter how hard I tried. I just couldn't see the point in what everyone was doing! They seemed to be running in circles, being stabbed along the way, and not realizing they were doing it to themselves and each other! They also didn't seem to be interested in any outside-the-box solutions, when it was so obvious that no one had found a solution within the box (better job, car, home, partner, education, blah, blah, blah). What's the point in living that!? It's all empty of any substance, at least that is what I have found. In fact, I spent most of my life trying to convince myself they weren't empty!

I want to mention, as it ties into what I am saying, that I can confirm Michel's book suggestion is very useful. It will not go as deep as what you'll find on here, but that does NOT mean it isn't perfect for your situation. The content of the Power of Now is extremely useful for gaining a foothold on the path to liberation from suffering through acquiring wisdom and insight. My first transcendental ecstatic insight experience was while reading that book, and was what convinced me there was a way out. And after that I only had one more suicidal episode. Have you read my case history yet? If not, then I strongly encourage you to.

It was during this suicidal episode that I realized I wanted to kill mySELF. And noticing that detail got me finally thinking critically; I could kill the body and the self would die, but what then!? It didn't matter that I had not (yet) directly experienced some of my past lives as confirmation that I would be reborn if I killed myself. I just looked around at the rest of nature and realized it was obvious that it recycles everything, why wouldn't that include souls/consciousness? So then I would just reappear with another body and another, similar self. Except in that new body/self I would most likely not have the wisdom that I did at that moment that I was considering suicide. This is honestly how I look at it now.

So, If I really want to kill myself, and NOT incur any new self's which have the same weakness to suffering, therefor continuing the cycle like everyone else was whether they killed themselves or not, then meditation and enlightenment is the ONLY WAY OUT. And now these suicidal tendencies have become my greatest strength. I gained the motivation to learn to still the mind by utilizing my desire to "kill myself" (which now meant to me; attain enlightenment). Because when the mind is stilled, when you are present, the "self" is under the watchful eye of awareness. Like a parent watching over the child. So to me, every time I stilled the mind I was killing myself by keeping an eye on it. LOL. Hey, it was an outside-the-box solution, and IT WORKED. I began seeing confirmation in the form of many different charismatic experiences.

You are not alone. Every great mystic I have ever learned of went through a period where they wanted to kill themselves or didn't see the point in societal existence. And, yes, in my experience I would have to agree that I saw suicide as a type of damage control. I didn't want to hurt myself or others anymore. I so desperately did not want to even be the slightest cause of others feeling like I did in those suicidal moments. And yet I saw how endlessly we stab each other and ourselves. So when I realized that killing myself was only doing more damage on myself and everyone else, I was forced to look for another way out.

You can turn this whole thing into a goldmine, as I currently feel I have. In the last two years I have become what was always struggling against family, friend, and society to come to the surface. I thought I wanted to make a 180, to resolve the situation, but I soon realized the only way to truly resolve anything is to transcend it through wisdom, discernment, and insight into the nature of reality. And in these last two years I have FINALLY helped my whole family, as well, who also suffered from suicidal thoughts often. That is one of the most fulfilling feelings. 

In my experience, the suffering of suicidal thoughts born in me an open mind, which born critical thinking, which born confidence, which born conviction in meditation and study, which born insight, wisdom, and mystical experience that began to free me from the shackles of suffering. So you can see how some teachers say we should be thankful for our suffering.

A caterpillar cuts itself off from the world before being reborn as a beautiful and free butterfly. No longer does it crawl upon the ground with everyone else--but fly wherever it pleases, perhaps up into the heavens.

I mean it when I say I'm here for you. If you wanna chat on the phone, message me and we will. I have empathy for your situation, and so while feeling your pain, I also know how very close you likely are to one of the best times of your life--perhaps even existences.

As for your fears, I can say it is a gradual process of deconstructing and facing them through the path of meditation. It's remarkable how meditation works that way. I have been in mystical experiences where the sheer profundity and ecstasy was scary, and I pulled myself out of it. Sometimes had a shot or two, but then moved a little closer to facing it head on. It's like Jhananda says about putting your toe in the water until it's used to it. Then you move a little further in. Or at least he said something to that effect :)

Does any of my high-energy ramblings seem useful? In my experience, I've found the most good I can do for those have been in suicidal moments like us, is to show them there is a way out, the logic and critical thinking supporting that way out, and then help them onto or back onto the path with more conviction. No one can do it for you, but we can surely point the way and support you. I hope sharing my own struggles has helped you gain confidence that others similar to you have gone through it and overcome. It seems a natural process of becoming something greater, as I mentioned about the caterpillar/butterfly. I honestly see it that we are the blessed ones. I do not say that and look down at others in anyway. It has nothing to do with that. I just know that the struggles I went through created the circumstances for a truly blessed existence. And it's due to the duality of this world, which is also the inherent unsatisfactoriness that causes us to be suicidal, that we are also capable of experiencing the blissful rise above and beyond it all.

PS As someone who spent hopeless decades under the "guidance" and "care" of western psychology and psychiatrists, I must also encourage you to stay away from them if you can help it. They only confused me. If you are at all still interested in medications or therapy, then I encourage you to have a phone call with me so I can share what wisdom those decades gave me. However, if, as I, you find you would like some helpful and relatively healthy comforts as you find your path, a few helpers I have had excellent success with myself and others  are self-music therapy, writing, spending time in nature, exercising and yoga.

I can honestly say that the more I commit myself to a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life, the less I think about suicide in the sense most know the word. I only think of liberation, and the blissful, ecstatic experiences where I felt finally I had come Home. Finally the weight was lifted, and my friend, in my experience there is nothing more desirable. You could spend 40 years trying to have just one of those experiences, and it would not be time wasted. And to know that is part of the goal is so comforting and motivating. If you FEEL what I mean when I say "Home", then let that motivate you.

May this sangha all skip merrily Home--Hahaha :)

Much love, friend.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 07:31:25 AM by Jhanon »

Jhanon

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 05:35:10 AM »
One more effort to be helpful.

The feeling of "going insane from meditating too deeply" is legitimate. But perception is based on comparison. So it would be better stated that you will become less and less like everyone else's definition of sanity. And look at those who are so-called "sane". Do they seem wise or at peace? I certainly don't think so. Any being that can be responsible for so much misuse and destruction of the earth and it's inhabitants is not sane. You will definitely see this subject addressed directly in "The Power of Now."

The simplest advice I can give is to continue meditating, talk about your concerns with us or other beings going through what you are, and study the other mystics. You will find many great beings of the past went through what you and all of us are going through.

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 02:34:56 PM »

Jhanananda

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2013, 12:54:02 PM »
Thank-you rougeleader115, Jhanon, and Michel for posting your responses.  This is what I mean by support and community.  We support each other by creating our own community (sangha) of support to help guide each other.
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rougeleader115

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 09:28:17 PM »

Hi RougeLeader,

YES, I have been in that situation many times. Although I will only touch on the big stuff here, be assured that I can relate. Just bare with me as I ramble a bit about my own experience. If nothing else, it will provide some solace for a few moments. But I suspect some of it will gift you insight into your situation. I am also glad to see others posting in support of you.

As am I. This is certainly a place I feel I can come to with concerns and questions and find help and support. Thank you all once again for being here and being open with your own situations and understandings.


My whole life I wanted to kill myself so badly, so many times. I was so frustrated with my inability to control myself and to fit into everyone's box. I couldn't keep the jobs I was told to get and keep. I wasn't really interested in anything suggested to me to do with my life. I tried so hard to be motivated toward worldly affairs like jobs, education, houses and relationships, but after 20 years I can confidently say it was and never will be there--although I did a good job of faking it to myself. (Yet it is worth mentioning that I have discovered an endless reservoir of motivation and energy for the path of meditation and helping others along it, as I'm sure you will or have noticed by the length of my posts.)

No matter how hard I tried to take care of myself and others--I couldn't keep it up for long, no matter how hard I tried. I just couldn't see the point in what everyone was doing! They seemed to be running in circles, being stabbed along the way, and not realizing they were doing it to themselves and each other! They also didn't seem to be interested in any outside-the-box solutions, when it was so obvious that no one had found a solution within the box (better job, car, home, partner, education, blah, blah, blah). What's the point in living that!? It's all empty of any substance, at least that is what I have found. In fact, I spent most of my life trying to convince myself they weren't empty!

This really touched me. I have struggled with these exact kind of thoughts and doubts. Seeing these things started around the age of 12, but became much more dominant by the time I was 16. It was like every experience was filtered through the lens of how unsatisfying it would all be in the end. I tried to through it off as just teenage angst, but I did not find many of my peers willing to admit the same kind of feelings. So who knows.

 

I want to mention, as it ties into what I am saying, that I can confirm Michel's book suggestion is very useful. It will not go as deep as what you'll find on here, but that does NOT mean it isn't perfect for your situation. The content of the Power of Now is extremely useful for gaining a foothold on the path to liberation from suffering through acquiring wisdom and insight. My first transcendental ecstatic insight experience was while reading that book, and was what convinced me there was a way out. And after that I only had one more suicidal episode. Have you read my case history yet? If not, then I strongly encourage you to.

It was during this suicidal episode that I realized I wanted to kill mySELF. And noticing that detail got me finally thinking critically; I could kill the body and the self would die, but what then!? It didn't matter that I had not (yet) directly experienced some of my past lives as confirmation that I would be reborn if I killed myself. I just looked around at the rest of nature and realized it was obvious that it recycles everything, why wouldn't that include souls/consciousness? So then I would just reappear with another body and another, similar self. Except in that new body/self I would most likely not have the wisdom that I did at that moment that I was considering suicide. This is honestly how I look at it now.

So, If I really want to kill myself, and NOT incur any new self's which have the same weakness to suffering, therefor continuing the cycle like everyone else was whether they killed themselves or not, then meditation and enlightenment is the ONLY WAY OUT. And now these suicidal tendencies have become my greatest strength. I gained the motivation to learn to still the mind by utilizing my desire to "kill myself" (which now meant to me; attain enlightenment). Because when the mind is stilled, when you are present, the "self" is under the watchful eye of awareness. Like a parent watching over the child. So to me, every time I stilled the mind I was killing myself by keeping an eye on it. LOL. Hey, it was an outside-the-box solution, and IT WORKED. I began seeing confirmation in the form of many different charismatic experiences.

You are not alone. Every great mystic I have ever learned of went through a period where they wanted to kill themselves or didn't see the point in societal existence. And, yes, in my experience I would have to agree that I saw suicide as a type of damage control. I didn't want to hurt myself or others anymore. I so desperately did not want to even be the slightest cause of others feeling like I did in those suicidal moments. And yet I saw how endlessly we stab each other and ourselves. So when I realized that killing myself was only doing more damage on myself and everyone else, I was forced to look for another way out.

You can turn this whole thing into a goldmine, as I currently feel I have. In the last two years I have become what was always struggling against family, friend, and society to come to the surface. I thought I wanted to make a 180, to resolve the situation, but I soon realized the only way to truly resolve anything is to transcend it through wisdom, discernment, and insight into the nature of reality. And in these last two years I have FINALLY helped my whole family, as well, who also suffered from suicidal thoughts often. That is one of the most fulfilling feelings. 

In my experience, the suffering of suicidal thoughts born in me an open mind, which born critical thinking, which born confidence, which born conviction in meditation and study, which born insight, wisdom, and mystical experience that began to free me from the shackles of suffering. So you can see how some teachers say we should be thankful for our suffering.

I cannot tell if I have experienced past lives or not, but that has been one of many reasons I refrain from self abuse. I have no idea what happens after death, I could just end up in a worse off situation, whether still dead or reborn. I know the only true way is the follow this path to the end(death or enlightenment). These tendencies have oddly helped my life as well. I've just found myself connecting deeper with the family and friends that allow me to. There are old wounds and deep worry in a lot of those around me, but I find myself not being as afraid to express my own and encourage others to share theirs. This has led to deeper relationships with most if not all  of my friends and family.

 

The caterpillar cuts itself off from the world before being reborn as a beautiful and free butterfly. No longer does it crawl upon the ground with everyone else--but fly wherever it pleases, perhaps up into the heavens.

I mean it when I say I'm here for you. If you wanna chat on the phone, message me and we will. I have empathy for your situation, and so while feeling your pain, I also know how very close you likely are to one of the best times of your life--perhaps even existences.

As for your fears, I can say it is a gradual process of deconstructing and facing them through the path of meditation. It's remarkable how meditation works that way. I have been in mystical experiences where the sheer profundity and ecstasy was scary, and I pulled myself out of it. Sometimes had a shot or two, but then moved a little closer to facing it head on. It's like Jhananda says about putting your toe in the water until it's used to it. Then you move a little further in. Or at least he said something to that effect :)

I can barely forgive myself for not letting go at these wonderful opportunities. That's why I ask so much about getting over the fear, because I have been shown at least one time how wonderful and life fulfilling these states can be. Its the only time I've ever felt such rest/peace/home. So I will keep testing the waters and finding my courage.

 

Does any of my high-energy ramblings seem useful? In my experience, I've found the most good I can do for those have been in suicidal moments like us, is to show them there is a way out, the logic and critical thinking supporting that way out, and then help them onto or back onto the path with more conviction. No one can do it for you, but we can surely point the way and support you. I hope sharing my own struggles has helped you gain confidence that others similar to you have gone through it and overcome. It seems a natural process of becoming something greater, as I mentioned about the caterpillar/butterfly. I honestly see it that we are the blessed ones. I do not say that and look down at others in anyway. It has nothing to do with that. I just know that the struggles I went through created the circumstances for a truly blessed existence. And it's due to the duality of this world, which is also the inherent unsatisfactoriness that causes us to be suicidal, that we are also capable of experiencing the blissful rise above and beyond it all.

PS As someone who spent hopeless decades under the "guidance" and "care" of western psychology and psychiatrists, I must also encourage you to stay away from them if you can help it. They only confused me. If you are at all still interested in medications or therapy, then I encourage you to have a phone call with me so I can share what wisdom those decades gave me. However, if, as I, you find you would like some helpful and relatively healthy comforts as you find your path, a few helpers I have had excellent success with myself and others  are self-music therapy, writing, spending time in nature, exercising and yoga.

I can honestly say that the more I commit myself to a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life, the less I think about suicide in the sense most know the word. I only think of liberation, and the blissful, ecstatic experiences where I felt finally I had come Home. Finally the weight was lifted, and my friend, in my experience there is nothing more desirable. You could spend 40 years trying to have just one of those experiences, and it would not be time wasted. And to know that is part of the goal is so comforting and motivating. If you FEEL what I mean when I say "Home", then let that motivate you.

May this sangha all skip merrily Home--Hahaha :)

Much love, friend.

Of course your ramblings(I wouldn't call them that :P) have been useful!! I tell you, I do not get to talk and relate to others about these subjects, and it is such an experience for me to be doing so here. If it doesn't seem so, that's just the way I come off, I am grateful. I'm still working on posting under your blog, but as usual I am slow to get there, and I apologize. I'm not sure if I responded as fully as I could have, but I didn't want you to think I didn't appreciate what you have said here.

Be well Jhanon,
Rougeleader


rougeleader115

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Re: Suicide and the Spiritual Crisis
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 09:39:50 PM »
Thank-you rougeleader115, Jhanon, and Michel for posting your responses.  This is what I mean by support and community.  We support each other by creating our own community (sangha) of support to help guide each other.

Yes indeed, thank you all for the help and encouragement :). I barely know any of you, but you have each given me so much. I feel like I type "thank you" to the point it could easily be annoying haha.

Thank you Michel for the link to "Practicing the Power of Now".
And Jhanananda, thank you in advance for your previous comment, I am still in the process replying back.

Rougeleader