Author Topic: remaining conscious during the sleep cycle  (Read 9300 times)

stugandolf

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remaining conscious during the sleep cycle
« on: December 20, 2012, 12:35:08 PM »
I am able to meditate flat on my back without falling asleep.  I observe the body readying for sleep and I often use this to fall asleep.  My problem is this: what must I do to trick the body to think it is sleeping while I remain conscious?  I know I am close to remaining conscious because sometimes when I want to sleep I somehow keep myself awake - if I relax I am able to sleep.  So help me, Stu

Jhanananda

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Re: remaining conscious during the sleep cycle
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 05:33:28 PM »
Hello dear friend Stu, and thank-you for posting your inquiry into remaining conscious during the sleep cycle.  I believe the reference in the suttas for amatta, which means the "deathless" directly relates to someone who has attained the superior fruitful (maha-phala) rewards and attainments of the contemplative life.  This means one who remains conscious during the sleep cycle has attained the deathless (amatta), which is a synonym for enlightenment.

Now we are going to have to explore the deathless (amatta).  How do we get from remaining conscious during the sleep cycle, to achieving the deathless (amatta), when the deathless (amatta), in a Buddhist context, is a synonym for enlightenment?  As many of you know I have not only been a rigorous, self- aware, ethical, contemplative for 39 years, but during that time I have also been a rigorous scholar of contemplative literature, and along the way I had to realize that most religious literature, and most contemplative literature, has been improperly translated and interpreted fort thousands of years.

I am also an anthropologist, and anthropology is about studying cultures in past and present.  Therefore to understand the contemplative literature of the past we need to understand the cultures of the past authors of that contemplative literature.  When we do that we find that the dream-scape of the peoples of the periods in which much of that contemplative literature was originally composed thousands of years ago, believed that the dream-scape was the spiritual dimension of demons in hells and angels in heavens.  Therefore, it was the understanding of the mystics of the past that the dream-scape was the same as the spiritual dimension, and understanding that when one dies one leaves the material existence and enters a spiritual existence, and thus enters the dream-scape, then by remaining conscious during the sleep cycle one has thus entered the deathless (amatta).

I have been remaining conscious during the sleep cycle for nearly 40 years.  How I got there was by first leading a rigorous, self- aware, ethical, contemplative life, which was focused upon cultivating the altered states of consciousness that are the 8 stages of samdahi, as described in the suttas.  This is essentially a description of the Noble Eightfold (step) Path to liberation and enlightenment.

I practice meditation every day, several times a day, and have done so for 39 years.  I start and end every day with meditation, and I find as many opportunities to meditate during the day that I can arrange.  The practice of meditation and self-awareness is a definition of the 7th fold of the Noble Eightfold (step) Path to liberation and enlightenment, which is called in the suttas 'sati' not vipassana. I have also done my best to lead a sober, and ethical life, which I believe is described by the first 5 folds, or steps, of the Noble Eightfold (step) Path to liberation and enlightenment.

I know you understand this about myself, and from what I understand, you (Stu) have been leading such a life; however, I feel like if I do not state the above, then the naive are going to think that if they just count rosary beads, or do prostrations, 5 minutes a day (or whatever devotional practice), then they will reap the same fruitful (phala) rewards that you, Michael, Sam, and I have reaped.  Which is simply not true.

We, therefore, also have to realize (and this has to be stated) that all mainstream religions have totally corrupted the enlightened teachings (dharma, dhamma) of their enlightened progenitor, and they have been aggressively marketing a deeply flawed version of the philosophy and lifestyle (dharma, dhamma) of their progenitor.

Once we realize the above and adopt the lifestyle as described above, which I believe you have, then we have a foundation upon which we can hone that lifestyle and philosophy (dharma, dhamma) to enhance our superior fruitful (maha-phala) rewards and attainments.

With the above as a foundation, then I also took up a few more practices to remaining conscious during the sleep cycle and thus attain the deathless (amatta).

1) Through daily sitting meditation practice I developed the 4 stages of the religious experience that are defined as the eightfold (step) of the Noble Eightfold (step) Path to liberation and enlightened, and are defines as samadhi and jhana in the suttas.
2) It was being able to meditate every day to the depth of the fourth stage of the religious experience (4th jhana) that brought me up to the threshold of the immaterial domains.
3) Just prior to sleep I meditate sitting down to the fourth stage of the religious experience (4th jhana) that brought me up to the threshold of the immaterial domains.
4) When I was ready for sleep, then I meditated lying down for the rest of the night. 
5) At the point at which the body would normally fall asleep, I would then leave the body and fully enter the immaterial domains, which is the same as becoming lucid in the sleep state.
6) When i recognized that I was ready to become lucid in the sleep state I also enhanced my lucidity in the sleep state by keeping a journal near my bed, with a flashlight, and a pen, and I said to myself as I lay down at night, "I wish to recall a dream."  When I began to awake after these lucid dreams I made sure that I wrote the "dream" down, or otherwise I would lose the lucidity that I had gained.  I have nearly 40 years of such dream journals store somewhere, if they have not been lost.
7) Once I had become lucid in the sleep state, then by the coincidence of becoming a mendicant in 1974 I ended up sleeping outside every night for one year.  I found then, that the stars are intimately connected to the immaterial domains.  So I recommend anyone who wishes to remaining conscious during the sleep cycle, and thus enter the deathless (amatta), should then sleep every night under the stars.
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stugandolf

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Re: remaining conscious during the sleep cycle
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2012, 04:28:33 AM »
Thanks Jeff.  Things good here in Varanasi - I recently met with nkrovsh  - aspiring contemplative for sure - good talk.  Stu

Jhanananda

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Re: remaining conscious during the sleep cycle
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2012, 01:16:00 PM »
Hello Stu, and good to know you met up with nkrovsh in Varanasi.  May the circle be unbroken.
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Jhanon

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Re: "Lucid Dreaming"/Deathless/Remaining conscious during sleep
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2014, 10:01:14 PM »
For the sake of future seekers of knowledge through the sangha, I would like to add that before I established myself in samadhi, I explored "lucid dreaming" extensively. I would like to add additional explanation and details.

1) As already mentioned, thinking or saying to yourself "I wish to remember my dream" just before committing to sleep is very helpful. To the beginner, it should be suggested that they say this outloud 3-5 times. This is not for ritualistic means, but through the knowledge that many people will simply do this without being conscious of it. Saying it many times forces the mind to be present with the intention, and therefor it is committed to the unconscious.

2) On the same note, I also found putting 100 percent effort into being as aware and conscious of as many sensations in "waking life" as possible to improve conscious awareness or presence throughout the day and night (sleep.) In popular lucid dreaming strategy, it is suggested one get accustom to checking clocks or watches during waking, and therefor, dream life. The theory is that dream life is inconsistent compared to waking life, and therefor a subsequent checking of a dream clock will reveal a vastly different display than just previously. In my experience, this is merely a method of being more consciously aware, and I've found it to be somewhat inferior to being as consciously aware of sensations in waking life as possible.

3) Dream journals are also very effective, as Jhananda stated.

It should be noted that it is possible to meditate to 2-4th jhana on a daily basis and yet be completely unaware of ones dreams and unable to recall them. I am proof of this, but that doesn't mean it is so for everyone. I have a distinctly inclined neuro-biological inclination toward an under-stimulated memory center. However, utilizing all previously states methods will rectify the issue. As can be surmised, as one becomes more committed to a self-aware, rigorous, critical-thinking, and yes, sober contemplative life as we've basically just described, one reaps the fruits.

Lastly, in regards to consciously transitioning from wake to "dream" state, I have only been able to do this 2-4 times. I defer to Jhananda's discourse above for details on how to achieve that.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 10:06:23 PM by Jhanon »

Jhanananda

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Re: remaining conscious during the sleep cycle
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2014, 11:18:50 PM »
You have made good recommendations, Jhanon.
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Alexander

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Re: remaining conscious during the sleep cycle
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2014, 03:40:46 AM »
I have been keeping a dream journal as well, at Jeffrey's advice. What is interesting are the "leaks" I've noticed in my dreams. I put an asterisk next to any thought or action which I see as my waking self moving into the dream:

1. In a sexual dream, I put an asterisk next to the thought "My indifference - supernatural." That was 4 or 5 nights ago.

2. In another dream, I had the thought, "I am a bhagavan" (very humble of me). This was during a bus ride in the dream.

3. In another dream, someone corrected me about something, and I remember having had the thought "WHO ARE YOU TO CORRECT ME?"

4. On another occasion I was thinking about devas in a dream.

5. And the last asterisk was during a meeting with my friend Lauren in a dream. I asked her what she had been up to, and she didn't seem interested in replying. I remember I made the conscious choice not to push her to talk more. That is something my waking self would do.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 04:55:28 AM by Alexander »
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Alexander

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Re: remaining conscious during the sleep cycle
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2014, 05:10:13 AM »
On a related note I have been reading more of the book The Ladder of Divine Ascent by St. John Climacus. It is interesting because from the text it seems he had OOBEs. One experience is recounted. However, at another point he criticizes remembering or interpreting dreams:

Quote
I was among the middle orders; and an angel enlightened me, thirsting as I was. And again I was among them, and when I asked: "What was the Lord before he took visible form?" the prince of the Heavenly hosts could not tell me, for he was not allowed. So I asked him: "In what state is He now?" He replied: "In the state proper to Him, but not in this [our state]. I asked: "What is the meaning of the standing and sitting at the right hand of the Father?" He said: "It is impossible to be initiated into these mysteries by hearing with the human ear." I thereupon implored him to lead me where my longings drew me (to the vision of God), and he said: "The hour has not yet come, because the fire of incorruption does not yet burn sufficiently within you." Whether I was then with this clay, I know not; or out of it, I am quite unable to say. (27:47)

(OOBE)

Quote
Let no one get into the habit of thinking over during the day-time the phantasies that have occurred to him during sleep; for the aim of the demons in prompting this is to defile us while we are awake by making us think about our dreams. (15:56)

(Criticism of remembering dreams)
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Jhanananda

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Re: remaining conscious during the sleep cycle
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2014, 12:03:06 AM »
Quote from: St. John Climacus
...Whether I was then with this clay, I know not; or out of it, I am quite unable to say. (27:47)
This is clearly a reference, that indicates that he understood that at least some people believed in his day in OOBEs, although the surely did not use that term.
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