Goenka

[Jhanananda]

I recently received an email from someone who had attended a Goenka retreat.  This is what he wrote:

on 1/23/13 10:59 PM, XXXXX XXXX at XXXXX@XXXX.com wrote:

Dear Jeffrey,
 
         Very recently I completed a 10 day residential course at a center (of course the teaching was through recorded audio and video of  S N Goenka), I noticed that Goenka does speak about Jhanas and also it is mentioned here : http://www.vridhamma.org/Glossary just scroll down to Jhana, on my second day through the course I felt a deep absorbtive state of mind and I felt that my presence was there in the whole of that huge meditation hall, I felt one with everyone and everything in that hall.
 
Just wanted to share this with you.
 
Take Care

This was my response:

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Jeffrey S. Brooks <jhananda@greatwesternvehicle.org> wrote:
Thanks, apparently Goenka is paying attention to my videos and writing.  Congratulations on the jhana experience.  Sounds like it was the 3rd jhana.  So, did you report it to the assistant teacher?  If so, what did he say? 

You can thank me for making it possible for you to experience jhana at a Goenka retreat and not be thrown out, as I was.

However, I believe that if people want to learn meditation from a genuine meditation master, then they really should stop supporting Goenka and start supporting genuine meditation masters.

Best regards, Jhananda

His response:

on 1/25/13 8:36 PM, Imran Khan at mikmysore@gmail.com wrote:

Thats very true, Master
 
Take care

The Experience of Jhana is forbidden at a Goenka Retreat

The Suppression of Jhana at a Goenka Retreat

Marcus Fung's Case History

The Witch-hunt Continues, The Oppression of Jhana, Samadhi and the Ecstatic Contemplative

Suppression of Jhana by the "Sangha"

[Alexander]

definitely sounds like he hit the third jhana

[Jhanananda]

Thanks, aglorincz, for posting your comment to this thread.  Sadly, it is doubtful that Goenka and his assistant teachers would even recognize it as jhana.  After all, it was this kind of experience that got me booted out of a Goenka 13 years ago.  I guess now they just let people have whatever religious experience they are going to have during those courses, which is an improvement.

[Jhanananda]

Recently a fundamentalist, true believer and devoted follower of "Gonekaji," masculineffort started filibustering my YouTube channel with a tirade against my criticism of his believed "Gonekaji." His tirade is here.  The following links are to others who have criticized SN Goenka, links kindly provided by his true devotee.

empty0grace Reflections on Goenka / U Ba Khin Style Vipassana

[Alexander]

I enjoy reading these dialogues. They always represent how impossible it is to break out of samsara. The people you dialogue with always know the technical language. But, there is always something missing. They seem to (1) have not navigated the spiritual crises; (2) have not brought their practice into their minute-by-minute existence; and (3) have not confronted their own sins/contradictions. In my experience, spirituality requires a profound de-construction and re-construction of the human personality. Only then does it become possible to experience the states of samadhi.

[Jhanananda]

Well said, aglorincz.  It is really pointless to engage in debates with the true believer, because they are not interested in the truth, just in a belief system; however, they go out of their way to hijack any mystic that ever comes along.

[Jhanananda]

Those of you who are interested in this thread might find this blog of interest: A rebuttal to Mr Jeffrey Brooks, a.k.a. Jhanananda: Part – III: Suppression of Jhana by the VRI organization.  Parts I and II might be equally interesting to read through.  You will find there several people reporting that they had been booted out of a Goenka retreat after experiencing jhana during a Goenka retreat.

[Michel]

The link you provided doesn't work, Jeffrey. This one works:

https://masculineffort.wordpress.com/2013/07/17/a-rebuttal-to-mr-jeffrey-brooks-a-k-a-jhanananda-part-iii-suppression-of-jhana-by-the-vri-organization/

I've never been to a Goenka retreat. It sounds like an experience I could do without. However, it's interesting to read of your discussion with one of Goenka's devottes. He seemed like an polite and ernest fellow willing to listen what you had to say. I wish you would have answered some of his questions. But you say it was pointless in the thread above.

[Frederick]

I'll have to listen to both sides tonight.

I loved how in other forums Jeffrey would go back and forth with people for a while with calm and clear answers.

I also feel more comfortable here knowing that I will never get kicked out for disagreeing.

I don't know how many people know how rare this is especially in the Buddhist community which seems to enforce a fake calm.

Much gratitude.

[Jhanananda]

Thanks, to Michel, and Follinge for posting your kind comments.  For some reason the URL was not saved, but I fixed it, so the link should work now.

If I had know that there was a dialog going on on that blog, then I most probably would have continued.  However, one has to keep in mind that the devout tend to suffer from a bad case of religious psychosis, so they generally cannot follow a logical argument.  Also, they tend to become angry when they find that their defense is week and tends to depend upon blind faith.

Please note friends:
My laptop is not working at this time, so I can only get online at free computer labs.  I will make an effort to be on more often until the computer gets fixed.

[Jauho1979]

Although Goenka's retreats seem to be giving Jhanas their due importance these days, nonetheless they are still treated as something that a meditator should avoid since it is believed that you can become addicted to them. In addition, I think Goenka still believes that Jhana cannot take a meditator all the way to liberation, but only Vipassana (i.e. body scanning) meditation can do so. 

This is clearly at odds with the Buddha's teaching which emphasized cultivating the Jhanas and learning the suttas found in the 4 nikayas (translator's bias not withstanding).

[Jhanananda]

Although Goenka's retreats seem to be giving Jhanas their due importance these days, nonetheless they are still treated as something that a meditator should avoid since it is believed that you can become addicted to them. In addition, I think Goenka still believes that Jhana cannot take a meditator all the way to liberation, but only Vipassana (i.e. body scanning) meditation can do so. 

Considering that the sutta pitaka of the Pali Canon clearly states that jhana is the very definition of the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path, then  SN Goenka is not teaching an 8 fold path; therefore he is not teaching Buddhism.

This is clearly at odds with the Buddha's teaching which emphasized cultivating the Jhanas and learning the suttas found in the 4 nikayas (translator's bias not withstanding).

I agree that SN Goenka's teaching is at odds with the sutta pitaka of the Pali Canon.  We therefore have to conclude that he is teaching adhamma.

[bodhimind]

Well, I know Jhanananda critiqued Bhante Vimalaramsi before, but Bhante V's history included a mastery over 20 years of what they called 'vipassana jhanas' under the Sayadaws. He then realized they did not lead to liberation. So perhaps we can take a leaf out of Bhante V's book and not even go into it in the first place. I mean, he took 20 years, got to the level that the Sayadaws said was mastery, and then ditched the entire thing, including the Visuddhimaga. So don't waste your time and go to the suttas.

Bhante V later realized the importance of the jhanas, but of course, there are some differences in his understanding as written on the GWV page here.