Author Topic: Shaktipat and Human needs!  (Read 15414 times)

Cybermonk

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Shaktipat and Human needs!
« on: February 18, 2013, 07:57:15 PM »
Aloha to you Cybermonks,

So.... when the follower is ready, the guru/teacher/minister  will appear, then, if the guru has gained enough energy, given to him/her, or from consciousness
evolution, presto, the  searching, lonely human gets their  wish granted. Now
they belong! They have felt a change in their awareness, felt a rush of energy
and take up whatever is asked of them, hoping for another fix.

So it goes!! Some never recover. Fortunately, some do and trek off to get
answers to what they felt. Those that trek off must develop the inner stability
to stand on their own. Of course this requires self analysis and the will
to change. Again the travelers are thinned out. Easier to bury their insecurities,
then sit down on a cushion, properly posed, chanting correctly and paying
the fee.

So it goes!!! The human being will tire. Continuing to enlightenment is
exhausting. A new guru's energy needs to be experienced, somewhere,
somehow. Slowly more travelers give up, some even die of old age.
Again the ranks are thinned.

Finally the traveler realizes " they" are the temple, the lab, the guru. Distilling
whatever data found both out there and found inside, becomes the path.
Applying the path to themselves and taking the gains, or loses, in stride.
Suddenly the pool clears and their own face appears in the reflection.
Suddenly they can be, or not be, anywhere without being swayed.
Heaven or Hell, no problem. Trying different realities, sure, whatever.
Enjoying life, why not. Enlightenment, sure, or, who cares.

Yeah.... moving beyond duality, into oneness. Then back again. Be free!
Are we having fun yet?
Kimo

Jhanananda

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Re: Shaktipat and Human needs!
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2013, 01:45:23 AM »
It is worth noting that the guru who really cashed in big on the belief in shaktipat was Multananda; who had a special hydraulic bed installed in his bedroom for seducing American women.  You see he was tiny, even by Indian standards, and American women are big by any standard, so he couldn't pick them up and flop them onto bed.

Should we move this to the exposing frauds category?
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Luke Avedon

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Re: Shaktipat and Human needs!
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2013, 04:16:29 AM »
Funny I was just thinking about shatkipat when I saw Kimo wrote this.  I was reading some book some yoga friends gave me and I just found it impossible to accept.

I encountered this in the Zen tradition as well.  Some Zen folks say "Zen Transmission" is nothing special, it's like getting a college diploma, others claim it is something extremely magical as well.  I can't find this plausible--but I am often wrong.

Jeffrey, I assume you don't believe there is any truth to this sort of thing at all?

It just seems like too obvious of an ethical marketing ploy.  What would enrich a priest class more than the idea than the idea that they can make you enlightened just by touching you?

Or in this book my friends lent me:

Quote
“Another form of shaktipata is conferred by intense gazing.  This is chakushi diksha.  By fixing her gaze on the student, an adept yogi can transmit spiritual energy directly into the student’s mind and heart.  There have also been incidents in which, instead of gazing directly at the student, the master gazed at an object.  In one instance that I know of, the master gazed at a glass of water, then told the student to drink it and go home.  A couple of hours later the blessing took effect, and the student, who was unfamiliar with Sanskrit, spontaneously uttered a mantra.  As he did so a wave of joy emerged from the sound and swept away his ordinary consciousness.  When he returned to normal awareness the mantra again flowed from his mouth, and he was swept away once more.  Knowing this would happen, the master visited the student’s home and found him on the floor.  He covered him with a shawl and reassured the people around him, “Soon he will assimilate the experience; then he will be all right.”(183-4)"
-- The Power of Mantra & The Mystery of Initiation by Pandit Rajmani Tigunait, Phd (He is a Swami Rami guy)

Luke Avedon

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Re: Shaktipat and Human needs!
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2013, 04:49:58 AM »
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 12:19:19 PM by Jhanananda »

Jhanananda

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Re: Shaktipat and Human needs!
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2013, 12:56:10 PM »
Since this topic has moved on to exposing Muktananda as a fraud, I moved it here.
Quote
"When we first approach a Guru," Muktananda wrote, "we should carefully examine his qualities and his actions. He should have conquered desire and anger and banished infatuation from his heart."
http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/secret.htm

I met Muktananda in Houston in 1975.  I was traveling from Tucson to Arkansas and I saw that he was going to be in Houston that weekend to give a retreat, so I stopped for the weekend.

The retreat was held in a mansion in a prestigious neighborhood not far from down-town Houston.  I arrived Friday evening in time for the evening satsang.  I was disappointed to find he did not speak English.  The satsang discourse was translated by a young Hindu man, who I found out later splintered off from Muktananda's movement and started his own.

After the discourse there was a procession to him to receive 'shaktipat."  He sat on his elevated thrown and held a wand made of peacock feathers and touched each person who came to him upon the head.  Some people reacted violently to the touch of the peacock feathers. Some wept, some staggered, some jerked about.  It reminded me quite a bit of a Pentecostal tent meeting.

The next morning (Saturday) there was an early morning meditation before sunrise.  At the time I was living in a 49 Willies 4x4 pickup truck with a cab-over camper.  I parked it on the street about a block away.  So, I left my camper and joined the meditation. 

There were two meditation groups that morning. The peasants who could not pay for the retreat were allowed to sit in the public satsang hall.  Being a mendicant at the time, I sat there.  Upstairs the paying customers.

During our silent morning meditation session I heard regular low frequency shock waves coming from upstairs.  There was a chandelier on our ceiling, and it swayed from the commotion upstairs.

I recall that they served free meals, I think it was 3, and it was probably served shortly after the morning meditation.  Afterwards there might have been another satsang, maybe some chanting.  I think it was afternoon, when there was some semi-private interviews in small groups.  i was given one.

I was ushered into a smaller room with maybe 10-20 people in it.  we were called up one at a time.  I was interested in natural healing at the time, and studying Iridology, so I asked if I could inspect his eyes.  I was given permission, but not to use a flashlight.  His eyes were so dark I could not see anything without the flashlight.  I thanked him and took a seat in the back.

The sequence of the day repeated throughout the weekend.  Sunday evening I was asked to do some "karma-yoga."  I agreed to, and I was ushered into the kitchen where I was placed before a deep sink to wash the pots and pans.  In the middle of washing a woman came in with a tray that was covered with a cloth.  She removed the cloth to reveal some small bowels of food.

She said, "Here is some prasad." I had lived in two 3HO ashrams of Yogi Bhajan by then, so I knew that prasad was consecrated food.  I was given to understand that the bowls of food were left from Muktananda's evening meal.  The others working in the kitchen stopped what they were doing and took a bowl and a clean spoon and ate the food with great reverence.

After I finished washing the pots I took one of the few remaining bowls outside and ate it.  I noticed later I got high from the food.  I mentioned it to one of the less-so devotees.  He told me that everyone gets high when they eat Muktananda's prasad, because of the shakti.  To me it was obvious that the food was drugged.  I later read that Rajnish regularly drugged his followers with Valium.  So, I figured Muktananda had learned it from Rajnish.
Jeffrey, I assume you don't believe there is any truth to this sort of thing at all?
I read some of the expose, but I could not keep reading it.  This man had no power over people other than what people did not invest in him.  I do nit find any evidence that people are either born enlightened, or receive it in direct physical touch; however, the belief in such is used by one of the most common religious scams around, and Muktananda clearly used it.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 01:01:46 PM by Jhanananda »
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Luke Avedon

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Re: Shaktipat and Human needs!
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2013, 04:17:48 PM »
That is a great story Jeffrey.  Most of what you describe has not been reported.  It's good to know that you do not believe Shaktipat is possible.

Cybermonk

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Re: Shaktipat and Human needs!
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2013, 07:34:19 PM »
Aloha to you all,

Well... this event happened to me some years ago. I lived in Alaska at
the time and was studying Dzogchen, mostly researching Namki Norbu's
methods. A friend told me Norbu was holding a retreat in a week, so we
went. It was an odd road trip, since the retreat was in Massachusetts,
yet it seemed that we just whizzed 3ooo miles while time meant nothing.
The energy of youth is amazing! Also... we were really into Dzogchen.

Once there, we began a three day event, camping out of our car and
buying food from the people who sponsored it all. These people were
east coast, fast moving people, but friendly. Norbu showed up with
his friends/students from Italy. Norbu got his start there as a professor
of Tibetan studies. He was really into Dzogchen, which worked for us.

We attended ongoing classes of techniques, dance, yoga, chant/song
and we were doing all this with 50 other people, never wanting to
stop to eat/sleep since everything was so fascinating. There were
many, what I would call, ancient souls, there. Lots of frauds of course,
but the overall vibration was, well... fascinating. We learned a ton
of Dzogchen ways and loved it. Norbu was this, very approachable
Tibetan guy, who was usually just a happy being, not a lot of posturing,
even when the followers tried to park him on silk cushions, he really
wanted to sit on the floor with us all.

Ok... so how does this all fit in with "shaktipa". Well... what we didn't
realize until the last day, last hour, was all the teachings, events and
so on, had a structured purpose. Even the food, all vegetarian was
part of setting the mood for the "shaktipa". Perhaps that word has
lost it essence of meaning by being corrupted, however what happened
was, Norbu put himself in a deep meditative state first. How deep?
Well.. his usually twinkly eyes had changed to blackness. We at first
thought he was possessed, but when he  spoke, it was the Norbu
we had come to like very much, then we realized that almost everyone
in the room looked the same way, us included. Of course... we at
first thought someone had slipped us all some kind of drug, but
we hadn't consumed any of their food/drink that day... too expensive.
Then it happened. I personally became aware of my eternal self! Yeah... I
know...what does that mean. Well... the best I can say is, it was
a knowing of me as pure awareness. I "knew" it was my essence.
It was like discovering the "nose" on your face. "I" just "was".
Nothing fancy, the room didn't melt. As I looked around, others had
the same look of belief/disbelief and all in between.  I personally
was changed! The out of body, rear death experiences now made
sense. I had been shown my core.

Ok... so, mass hallucination, mass hypnosis, contact high with this
Tibetan guy and on and on. To me, for me, I now,"know". As an example,
I sometimes tell someone they should read/study, do everything
intellectual on discovering chocolate and be an expert on it.
However... an ordinary being can take a bite of chocolate and
"know" what chocolate is. Yeah... the "ah hah" moment. So... was
that event "shaktipat"? Maybe !  Or not! Ha!

Party on,
Kimo

Jhanananda

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Re: Shaktipat and Human needs!
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 01:41:50 AM »
...So... was that event "shaktipat"? Maybe !  Or not! Ha!

Party on,
Kimo
Hello Kimo, Michael and I have both heard from others when they meditate with us they experience deeper meditation.  Is that shaktipat, or something else?
Quote
Shaktipat or Śaktipāta (Sanskrit, from sakti - "(psychic) energy" - and pāta, "to fall")[1] refers in Hinduism to the conferring of spiritual "energy" upon one person by another. Shaktipat can be transmitted with a sacred word or mantra, or by a look, thought or touch - the last usually to the ajna chakra or third eye of the recipient. Saktipat is considered an act of grace (anugraha) on the part of the guru or the divine.
Based upon the Wiki definition then Norbu, Michael, myself and others confer shakti "(psychic) energy" upon those who meditate with us.  The key here is depth.  So, if one is to meditate in the presence of some one who meditates more deeply, then the person who meditates less deeply will be drawn deeper into the meditation experience.  This suggests that anyone attending the GWV meditation retreats with both Michael and I present will experience double Shaktipat.
That is a great story Jeffrey.  Most of what you describe has not been reported.  It's good to know that you do not believe Shaktipat is possible.
So, Luke, it depends upon how you define Shaktipat.  Do I believe any horny old fraud with a wand made of peacock feathers can touch someone and enlighten them?  No.  Do I believe that someone can get fully enlightened by the touch of a fully enlightened Buddha?  No.  Do, I believe that people can have a profound meditation experience in my presence, and be inspired to lead a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life?  Yes, because I have seen it.  Michael Hawkins is proof.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 01:49:19 AM by Jhanananda »
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Cybermonk

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Re: Shaktipat and Human needs!
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 05:27:43 AM »
Hi Jeffrey,

Yeah, since that time I've come to realize all existence is connected.
The only difficulty I have is my personal reluctance in opening the valve
of awareness. I'm still slowly growing, but its at a slower pace. My
experience with Norbu is still with me. Just being in the same room with
someone truly in deep meditation, like with Norbu, will still change my
awareness to the point where I can't go back.  When you know, well...
you know.

Someday I'd like to walk with you into a meditative state of deeper
experience. Presently I'm working on my equanimity. I find it reassuring
you knew exactly what I experienced. One never knows if the path your
on is worth the effort, this path is, for me and i thank you for what
you've been doing for all of us, on all those blogs, over all those years.

Hopefully your karma will reward you with lots of book sales. Malia ask
if your body is better with the quinine.
Later,
Kimo

Jhanananda

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Re: Shaktipat and Human needs!
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2013, 12:28:33 PM »
Hi Jeffrey,

Yeah, since that time I've come to realize all existence is connected.
The only difficulty I have is my personal reluctance in opening the valve
of awareness. I'm still slowly growing, but its at a slower pace. My
experience with Norbu is still with me. Just being in the same room with
someone truly in deep meditation, like with Norbu, will still change my
awareness to the point where I can't go back.  When you know, well...
you know.

Someday I'd like to walk with you into a meditative state of deeper
experience. Presently I'm working on my equanimity. I find it reassuring
you knew exactly what I experienced. One never knows if the path your
on is worth the effort, this path is, for me and i thank you for what
you've been doing for all of us, on all those blogs, over all those years.
You are always welcome to join us in retreat.  Working on the equanimity is a good thing, the practice is all about following the whole of the Noble Eightfold Path, not just parts of it, which is about being mindfully self-aware in every moment, and diligently practicing meditation that produces some level of the religious experience (samadhi) every day.
Hopefully your karma will reward you with lots of book sales. Malia ask
if your body is better with the quinine.
Later,
Kimo
The next morning after receiving your recommendation I went down to the grocery store in search of quinine water and found none, then I looked at the ingredients of 'tonic water' and found that is the name they give it here in North America.  So, I bought a large bottle of it on sale for less than $1, and I drink about 8 ounces a day.  So far I have not noticed any effect, but I like the taste, so I might just stay on it.  The Pyramid Apricot Ale is still the most effective substance I have found to treat my chronic joint pain.
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