Her biggest sell of these spiritual people has been Eckhart Tolle. Who, I think, is probably a once-returner:
One night in 1977, at the age of 29, after having suffered from long periods of suicidal depression, Tolle says he experienced an "inner transformation."[6] That night he awakened from his sleep, suffering from feelings of depression that were "almost unbearable," but then experienced a life-changing epiphany.
Which sounds to me like a reference to the night of sense.
The next morning I woke up and everything was so peaceful. The peace was there because there was no self. Just a sense of presence or “beingness,” just observing and watching.[11] ...
Tolle recalls going out for a walk in London the next morning, and finding that “everything was miraculous, deeply peaceful. Even the traffic."
There's some exaggeration here but this enduring peace he gained sounds like the joy of the first jhana.
That said, Tolle usually sells himself as being full-on "enlightened," which he certainly is not. Although, I would be willing to say that it's his genuine misinterpretation of his attainment, more than his trying to stiff anyone..
Of course, Oprah does have a lot of frauds on her show... and ultimately I think that her self-help, "positive thinking" approach can only an obstacle to facing the proper discomforts of reality.
The fact that Tolle refers to a loss of self, which is none other than a non-dual experience; and living in the present, which he calls "the now;" whereas, there is no reference in his work to the charisms, then I believe we can safely conclude that he has arrived in the 2nd jhana. However, what is disturbing about Tolle is he fails to place his "enlightenment" within the context of anyone else.
I am very curious about some of these people though: like in the movie pj recommended. That people could have charisms but not have any insight into them. Manifesting the charisms would imply arahantship, or at least nonreturnerdom, in most cases. So how could someone be on such a high level, but not have any insight into what they are or how they became such?
I do not know enough about the movie or the people to make a comment. But, what is typical of the religious experience is that it is profound, aka ineffable, and transformative. I think another aspect of the religious experience is people tend to think that they have gotten as far as there is to go.
The born-again experience is certainly ineffable, and transformative; however, these people never refer to living in the present, or a sense of loss of self. They tend to reject all other religions, and religious practices, and they definitely demonize the contemplative life, which suggests the 1 jhana.
So, in conclusion it is up to each of you to compare the 8 stages of religious experience, as defined in the suttas, with the claim made by someone who had a religious experience, to place that person's experience within the continuum of the 8 samadhis.
In response to the claim of the people in the movie that have arrived at some chairsms, but have no insight. Well, I would be suspicious of such a claim, because in my experience the religious experience it is characterized by the arising of charisms, and insight. What charisms do they claim they arrived at; and how do they describe them?
