Invocation of a spiritual master

[Alexander]

I wanted to make a record of this experience because I think it was an extraordinary one.

To start off, in occult books, a lot of importance is put into the idea of "invocation." Often, there is a fascination with people "summoning demons." As though summoning a demon could ever be a useful action.

Invocation, however, is not something unique to the occult. In different religions, invocations are made to gods, saints, and spiritual masters. Actually, every time you hear someone who hits his foot yell "Jesus Christ!" that is an invocation to Christ. (Of course, an exclamation like this could never invoke Christ.)

About two years ago I had an experience in this area, which has taken me a large amount of time to understand.

What occurred? Well, to explain first requires some context. As I have explained to Jhananda and mapeli here, for many years I was a student of G. I. Gurdjieff. He was someone I dedicated a large amount of study to, and who I learned a lot from his teachings.

At one point I came to subject everything in my experience to the judgment of Gurdjieff. What would he think of X? How should I do Y in reference to him? It is important to understand this, because he occupied a large amount of space in my thoughts.

Now, how does an invocation work? How would it be possible to invoke Christ, Shiva, etc? Well, it is an exercise of the mind, and of the whole personality. Fixation is needed. One has to very seriously dedicate one's thoughts to a guru, saint, etc.

People imagine invocation in the stereotype of a pentagram drawn on the floor. They imagine a ceremony with different objects. In Christianity, people imagine the physical re-enactment of the Last Supper as being essential for the presence of Christ.

But, all of the outward show is just that. The adornments are not anything in themselves. What these objects do is simply give a context for a person. It is the person himself who invokes the guru, saint, or deva.

So, what occurred? Well, one day I was just sitting, going about my business as usual. I was engaged in study of Gurdjieff. Then, suddenly, I became aware of the "presence" of G. I. Gurdjieff.

It was a floaty experience. It was like he was there, but not there. It was like he was above me, over my shoulder, looking at me - though I could not see him back. It was unsettling. It was out of the ordinary. If it were not, I would not be sharing this.

In my imagination I slowly came to have different images emerge. These made the presence of Gurdjieff into a more concrete experience. His "presence" remained for a few minutes. Then, the "presence" went away.

Like I said, it took two years for me to make something of the experience.

This story may sound unexceptional. To appreciate it requires experience in this area, along with very refined discernment.

I would like to conclude that it is essential to understand experiences like this in the context of doubt. I saw nothing. Remember, the experience was of a "presence." There could be nothing more flighty. Finally, the associative flow of images was not anything special. They cannot be made distinct from imagination. So, even if this particular experience was veritable, experiences like this always end up in a mixture with imagination.

[Jhanananda]

In my experience every genuine mystic I ever studied ended up being "invoked" to use your terminology.  For me in most cases it was having a lucid OOBE whereby I visited the mystic in question, and we had a lengthy dialog, or exchange of wisdom.  So, I find studying a mystic is certainly with a great deal of attention, is certainly a way to invoke" that person.

[Alexander]

In my experience every genuine mystic I ever studied ended up being "invoked" to use your terminology.  For me in most cases it was having a lucid OOBE whereby I visited the mystic in question, and we had a lengthy dialog, or exchange of wisdom.  So, I find studying a mystic is certainly with a great deal of attention, is certainly a way to invoke" that person.

It was such a strange experience. As it was not in an OOBE, I have never had one, although I have now gotten to the fourth jhana in your explanations, Jhananda. It was just me, there, in my ordinary consciousness. Then I felt the presence of Gurdjieff.

What were your experiences like, Jhananda? Have you met John of the Cross? Did you speak in your meetings, or did you communicate in another way? Who have you met and what did you learn?

[Jhanananda]

Meeting a mystic on the immaterial domains is how I determine the authenticity of a mystic, because there is no artifice that one can hide behind in the higher domains. 

What were your experiences like, Jhananda? ...Did you speak in your meetings, or did you communicate in another way?

There one does not communicate by speech. Instead one communicates by direct transmission.  With direct transmission a whole life time of philosophy can be transmitted and understood instantly.

Have you met John of the Cross? ...Who have you met and what did you learn?

On the immaterial domains I have met every mystic I speak of, and many, many more.  What I have learned from the mystics that I studied from on the immaterial domains is what I teach, but what I teach is only a fragment of what I have learned from the mystics (ascended masters) on the immaterial domains.

[bodhimind]

In my experience every genuine mystic I ever studied ended up being "invoked" to use your terminology.  For me in most cases it was having a lucid OOBE whereby I visited the mystic in question, and we had a lengthy dialog, or exchange of wisdom.  So, I find studying a mystic is certainly with a great deal of attention, is certainly a way to invoke" that person.

It was such a strange experience. As it was not in an OOBE, I have never had one, although I have now gotten to the fourth jhana in your explanations, Jhananda. It was just me, there, in my ordinary consciousness. Then I felt the presence of Gurdjieff.

What were your experiences like, Jhananda? Have you met John of the Cross? Did you speak in your meetings, or did you communicate in another way? Who have you met and what did you learn?

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I must say...

When I studied Jaggi Vasudev's material and tried to find out if he was enlightened, that night he appeared in an intense dream I had, and it was that night that I left my body in an OOBE. Perhaps studying his material invoked him? Or perhaps it was mental projection?

There one does not communicate by speech. Instead one communicates by direct transmission.  With direct transmission a whole life time of philosophy can be transmitted and understood instantly.

This. I remember simply exchanging "looks" with that guide. Then I understood what I needed to do.

----

That point aside, I wonder if it is possible to somehow integrate the various points of views/philosophies into a single philosophy. For example, Lao Tzu from Taoism, Patanjali, Shiva, Yogananda, Rumi, saints etc. Or perhaps, are they too vast to be taught?

I sometimes worry about when I am truly able to master fourth jhana and finally enter the ayatanas, because I do not really know what happens in them and may not be able to have guidance in time. Would it be say that there is some kind of guide/intuition that helps one through these?

[Jhanananda]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I must say...

When I studied Jaggi Vasudev's material and tried to find out if he was enlightened, that night he appeared in an intense dream I had, and it was that night that I left my body in an OOBE. Perhaps studying his material invoked him? Or perhaps it was mental projection?

Interesting.  Perhaps he is the real deal.  I had a number of profound OOBE experiences related to a guru I once followed, who turned out to be a fraud.  So, just because one has such an OOBE experience does not mean that teacher in question is enlightened.  After all, in the lower OOBEs there is still a great deal of projection going on.  So, one has to keep in mind that, "We know a tree by its fruit."  So, does that teacher understand the fruit of the contemplative life, and does he or she manifest it?

I wonder if it is possible to somehow integrate the various points of views/philosophies into a single philosophy. For example, Lao Tzu from Taoism, Patanjali, Shiva, Yogananda, Rumi, saints etc. Or perhaps, are they too vast to be taught?

I sometimes worry about when I am truly able to master fourth jhana and finally enter the ayatanas, because I do not really know what happens in them and may not be able to have guidance in time. Would it be say that there is some kind of guide/intuition that helps one through these?

My writing attempts to bring together the writing of the genuine mystics.  But do keep in mind, just because billions of people believe a teacher is enlightened does not make him or her so.  One must always keep in mind that, "We know a tree by its fruit."  So, does that teacher understand the fruit of the contemplative life, and does he or she manifest it?

[jay.validus]

Interesting.  I had the thought I need to "invoke" or talk to some type of master in my dreams, although I do not think right now is the time.  I find many people enter my life, and then I might have a lucid dream about them.  There might be some deeper significance as to why we met, and what they were trying to teach me.

[Alexander]

Thanks, bodhimind, for bumping this thread. I discovered an experience which Teresa of Avila recorded, that was very similar to what I wrote about:

I was in prayer one day - it was the feast of the glorious St. Peter - when I saw Christ close by me, or, to speak more correctly, felt him; for I saw nothing with the eyes of the body, nothing with the eyes of the soul. He seemed to me to be close beside me; and I saw, too, as I believe that it was He who was speaking to me. As I was utterly ignorant that such a vision was possible, I was extremely afraid at first, and did nothing but weep; however, when He spoke to me but one word to reassure me, I recovered myself, and was, as usual, calm and comforted, without any fear whatever. Jesus Christ seemed to be by my side continually. As the vision was not imaginary, I saw no form, but I had a most distinct feeling that He was always on my right hand, a witness of all I did; and never at any time, if I was but slightly recollected, or not too much distracted, could I be ignorant of His near presence. I went at once to my confessor in great distress, to tell him of it. He asked in what form I saw our Lord. I told him I saw no form. He then said: "How did you know that it was Christ?" I replied that I did not know how I knew it; but I could not help knowing that He was close beside me... there are no words whereby to explain...

Finding this made me feel a lot better than I did. It made me appreciate the chance that the experience was real. It does not confirm (or deny) the apparition, so I try to think about it with as much critical reason as I can.

John of the Cross wrote a very good prescription about visions and intuitions:

The devil causes many to believe in vain visions and false prophecies; and strives to make them presume that God and the saints are speaking with them; and they often trust their own fancy.

I have had many visions and intuitions which could be true: or, just the exercise of my imagination. These days I believe I have good judgment: but, worldly experience still contradicts me all the time.

This past month I thought I felt the presence of Evelyn Underhill. It seemed as though she was in the next room, watching me, as I was sitting on a couch. That would have made sense, since I have been studying her book Mysticism carefully over the past few years. I think that if you study anyone deeply enough, you might provoke an apparition of them.

I felt another presence about a year ago. I was out walking by myself, and thought I felt the presence of Lauren. (Who, as you may know, has recently told me never to contact her again.) It felt as though she was walking beside me, down the road; then, when I turned a corner, I thought I felt her becoming more confused and upset. After that, the presence went away.

I think that the more "raw" or basic an experience is - the more we can say the experience came from without - the more we can lean toward it being reliable. I would give the example of how I discovered Jeffrey. Out of all the "spiritual teachers" out there, I managed to dig him out; and, I utterly don't think that would have been possible without "outside help."

When I studied Jaggi Vasudev's material and tried to find out if he was enlightened, that night he appeared in an intense dream I had, and it was that night that I left my body in an OOBE. Perhaps studying his material invoked him? Or perhaps it was mental projection?

This makes me think of something I watched in a video on the Maharshi once, when a woman was traveling India to find a spiritual teacher. *I found it in this video, the interview that starts at 13:13: https://youtu.be/NSNEib2RDl8?t=13m13s

[bodhimind]

Interesting.  Perhaps he is the real deal.  I had a number of profound OOBE experiences related to a guru I once followed, who turned out to be a fraud.  So, just because one has such an OOBE experience does not mean that teacher in question is enlightened.  After all, in the lower OOBEs there is still a great deal of projection going on.  So, one has to keep in mind that, "We know a tree by its fruit."  So, does that teacher understand the fruit of the contemplative life, and does he or she manifest it?

Strangely in coincidence, I saw this quote by him: "There is no better insight into someone’s teaching than looking at the way he lives." From this, I feel like he at least understands what it means to live a contemplative life. However, I've learnt my lesson - to put my trust in the dharma and investigate it personally, rather than rely on idolatry or dependence on an external figure.

Interesting.  I had the thought I need to "invoke" or talk to some type of master in my dreams, although I do not think right now is the time.  I find many people enter my life, and then I might have a lucid dream about them.  There might be some deeper significance as to why we met, and what they were trying to teach me.

I often ponder that as well. Then I remember a point once talked about how individuals we meet are often part of our past lives as well. I would assume that the 'lessons' we learn are ways of unravelling the knot, perhaps? I am not sure, I hope to find out.

Thanks, bodhimind, for bumping this thread. I discovered an experience which Teresa of Avila recorded, that was very similar to what I wrote about:

I was in prayer one day - it was the feast of the glorious St. Peter - when I saw Christ close by me, or, to speak more correctly, felt him; for I saw nothing with the eyes of the body, nothing with the eyes of the soul. He seemed to me to be close beside me; and I saw, too, as I believe that it was He who was speaking to me. As I was utterly ignorant that such a vision was possible, I was extremely afraid at first, and did nothing but weep; however, when He spoke to me but one word to reassure me, I recovered myself, and was, as usual, calm and comforted, without any fear whatever. Jesus Christ seemed to be by my side continually. As the vision was not imaginary, I saw no form, but I had a most distinct feeling that He was always on my right hand, a witness of all I did; and never at any time, if I was but slightly recollected, or not too much distracted, could I be ignorant of His near presence. I went at once to my confessor in great distress, to tell him of it. He asked in what form I saw our Lord. I told him I saw no form. He then said: "How did you know that it was Christ?" I replied that I did not know how I knew it; but I could not help knowing that He was close beside me... there are no words whereby to explain...

Finding this made me feel a lot better than I did. It made me appreciate the chance that the experience was real. It does not confirm (or deny) the apparition, so I try to think about it with as much critical reason as I can.

John of the Cross wrote a very good prescription about visions and intuitions:

The devil causes many to believe in vain visions and false prophecies; and strives to make them presume that God and the saints are speaking with them; and they often trust their own fancy.

I have had many visions and intuitions which could be true: or, just the exercise of my imagination. These days I believe I have good judgment: but, worldly experience still contradicts me all the time.

This past month I thought I felt the presence of Evelyn Underhill. It seemed as though she was in the next room, watching me, as I was sitting on a couch. That would have made sense, since I have been studying her book Mysticism carefully over the past few years. I think that if you study anyone deeply enough, you might provoke an apparition of them.

I felt another presence about a year ago. I was out walking by myself, and thought I felt the presence of Lauren. (Who, as you may know, has recently told me never to contact her again.) It felt as though she was walking beside me, down the road; then, when I turned a corner, I thought I felt her becoming more confused and upset. After that, the presence went away.

I think that the more "raw" or basic an experience is - the more we can say the experience came from without - the more we can lean toward it being reliable. I would give the example of how I discovered Jeffrey. Out of all the "spiritual teachers" out there, I managed to dig him out; and, I utterly don't think that would have been possible without "outside help."

When I studied Jaggi Vasudev's material and tried to find out if he was enlightened, that night he appeared in an intense dream I had, and it was that night that I left my body in an OOBE. Perhaps studying his material invoked him? Or perhaps it was mental projection?

This makes me think of something I watched in a video on the Maharshi once, when a woman was traveling India to find a spiritual teacher. *I found it in this video, the interview that starts at 13:13: https://youtu.be/NSNEib2RDl8?t=13m13s

Thank you for posting this Alexander.

The particular quote on the devil reminds me of one mystic's friend that I heard, started believing that he was a prophet and that doomsday was coming, after having visions.

As the vision was not imaginary, I saw no form, but I had a most distinct feeling that He was always on my right hand, a witness of all I did; and never at any time, if I was but slightly recollected, or not too much distracted, could I be ignorant of His near presence.

This is quite interesting - Does this mean that we might be able to "invoke" forms by intense thought?

---

I know this is quite unrelated, but it suddenly brings up this concept of a tulpa (Tibetan) or egregore. I have never really dabbled into it, but I know the use "egregore" (or psychic entity) is quite prevalent in western occultism. Maybe someone can shed some light on this? Do you think it is related to invocation?

[jay.validus]

This is quite interesting - Does this mean that we might be able to "invoke" forms by intense thought?

---

I know this is quite unrelated, but it suddenly brings up this concept of a tulpa (Tibetan) or egregore. I have never really dabbled into it, but I know the use "egregore" (or psychic entity) is quite prevalent in western occultism. Maybe someone can shed some light on this? Do you think it is related to invocation?

After pondering on invocation, I came to realize this is similar to a post I wrote a while back on the muses.   The muses were Greek Gods, personification of the creative and godly force that exists within and through us.  With the right view and direction, you can surrender to this power and allow some type of artistic expression to come out.  Often, you might understand it at an intuitive level although have no ways of explaining it in words until after the fact.  There is only the driving force for you to either observe this thought/feeling, however intense, or to express it in some form of song or artistic picture.

I can understand how one could call this invocation or channelling.  There are times when your intuition brings you something, which Jeffery could call jhana-nimita, and if you follow it could lead to a very powerful and beautiful experience, although not necessarily pleasant.  There is an equal chance of it being unpleasant.  I find you can 'invoke' the more primal aspects of human nature, and follow it during some form of meditation, prayer, or artistic expression (the latter being my preferred method for intense charismatic experiences). 

I find in order to allow it to happen, one needs to surrender, and follow the jhana-nimita/charisms.  From there, there are deeper levels of the self which might pull one into a darker part of the psyche, or into a very blissful one.   I guess I could call that "steering" invocation.  The force of that steering would determine if the experience is mild, moderate, or intense.  As the experience plays outs, that could be called channelling.

I find from experience this can make the mind very unstable, so buyer beware.  Although, in the long-run it is a very beautiful experience., and with meditation I have become very content.  Keep that in mind.

[Jhanananda]

I felt another presence about a year ago. I was out walking by myself, and thought I felt the presence of Lauren. (Who, as you may know, has recently told me never to contact her again.) It felt as though she was walking beside me, down the road; then, when I turned a corner, I thought I felt her becoming more confused and upset. After that, the presence went away.

As we move forward in our contemplative life we shed obsessions; however, some obsessions are harder to shed than others.  But, if we keep turning our attention to the charisms of the holy spirit, then we keep the holy spirit with us, which causes even the most difficult obsessions to fall way.  It just takes time, patience and determination.

Strangely in coincidence, I saw this quote by him: "There is no better insight into someone’s teaching than looking at the way he lives." From this, I feel like he at least understands what it means to live a contemplative life. However, I've learnt my lesson - to put my trust in the dharma and investigate it personally, rather than rely on idolatry or dependence on an external figure.

This sounds like an encouraging quote; but I agree with you, we need only "put my trust in the dharma and investigate it personally, rather than rely on idolatry or dependence on an external figure.'  This is true insight.

I know this is quite unrelated, but it suddenly brings up this concept of a tulpa (Tibetan) or egregore. I have never really dabbled into it, but I know the use "egregore" (or psychic entity) is quite prevalent in western occultism. Maybe someone can shed some light on this? Do you think it is related to invocation?

The only spirit worth invoking is the holy spirit, which is experienced in the charisms/jhana-nimita.