Enjoyment vs. Addiction

[rougeleader115]

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if there is a general consensus on how one should go about discerning the difference between enjoyment and addiction. I know that our goal is to give up the senses and identity, but while here, I can still hear, taste, touch etc. and I still have the ability to enjoy a nice song and other pleasurable things. But I want to be sure I am not degrading my spiritual attempts by using my senses to sometimes enjoy things that are available in this world. I can see that it doesn't necessarily matter what the object is, because we can be addicted to pretty much anything, but I do not know how to tell if random cravings I have are addictions or not. Sometimes during the week I want candy, and my reason for going ahead and eating it up till now has been that if my body sometimes wants to eat a piece of candy, then I will give it some. This is how I have been going about my cravings for most things I crave as long as it does not cause a lot of harm to myself or others. I know that candy is not necessarily conducive to good health, but most things we crave are not, so I try to always enjoy what I do in moderation.

So what I am really trying to figure out, is whether the craving for the candy(or whatever) counts as an addiction to it? When does a craving end up becoming an addiction, or are they already the same thing?

Also once an addiction is realized, what is the best course of action in eradicating it?

[Michel]

When it comes to food, the Buddha would of probably have considered it as medicinal. So eating candy or anything that is unhealthy is unwholesome behaviour.
I don't see anything wrong with enjoying your food as you eat it, but don't allow it to turn into an addiction. That's my 2 cents.

[Jhanananda]

Many people are confused by the avoidance of sensory stimulation that is typical of the discourses of many mystics, such as Siddhartha Gautama.  The point is, the object of leading a contemplative life is not to just play endless mind games with one's self.  It is to learn to still the mind, and cultivate the religious experience.

The religious experience is characterized by the manifestation of apparent sensory phenomena that does not arise due to sensory stimulation.  That sensory phenomena that arises during the religious experience is also known as a charism.

The reason why we discipline our selves, when leading a contemplative life is to avoid distraction. Nonetheless, we must also be self-aware.  So, possibly rougeleader115, when you have what you believe is a craving for candy, might just be the body bringing to your attention that its blood sugar is dropping, and it needs to be brought up.  However, using candy to raise the body's blood sugar is inefficient, and can lead to diabetes.

[rougeleader115]

Thank you both for the replies. I'll be sure to reach for healthier sources of carbohydrates instead.

[Jhanon]

To address the title of your post and compliment on Jhananda's wisdom: craving for physical things suggests attachment to it, whereas impulses are normal, and it should be pleasant to handle those impulses in as wholesome a way as you can. That may be just letting the impulse for sex pass and trying for some samadhi, or instead of sex with a partner, allowing yourself to have some "self-fun" while you observe how little pleasure you get from so much effort. Eventually we gain enough balance that we enjoy what is wholesome, which drives us to continue developing it.

It's a process, where conscious awareness, intention and critical thinking seem most important. Otherwise it can get super complicated. I find it's best to utilize the same skillful means in samadhi as I do in every other part of life. It's like a training ground.

Try having a few bites of your favorite fruit and "reward yourself" with then eating the candy. You may find you don't want the candy anymore. But, again, it's a process.

Anyway, that has been my experience and study in the matter.

[Frederick]

But I want to be sure I am not degrading my spiritual attempts by using my senses to sometimes enjoy things that are available in this world. I can see that it doesn't necessarily matter what the object is, because we can be addicted to pretty much anything, but I do not know how to tell if random cravings I have are addictions or not.

I guess I disagree a bit here.

That is, I think it does matter what you consume.

For example, if you consume a sunset, isn't that better than candy? Especially too much candy which rots your teeth and could hurt your health in other ways?

If you eat one piece of candy mindfully, isn't that better than gorging yourself on healthy food?

Also, I like the good idea of good "addictions" vs. bad ones. I'm addicted to going to the gym. I don't work out too much. I take lots of days off. I don't do too much weight at a time, but rather I try to focus on having good form.

I just don't buy this is as bad as binge drinking which I used to do.

In fact, the more I exercise, the less I want to drink because drinking makes it harder to workout the next day.

Also, it depends upon what your after.

For example, I don't think that caffeine is really that bad for you. But I'd still like to be rid of it.

First of all, I'd like to see if I could do it.

Second, I'd like the accomplishment.

Third, I feel I sleep and meditate better without.

Fourth, I don't like the feeling of having to have it especially when I'm traveling. I feel like a junkie with my instant coffee which I'm never without. Pathetic.

Fifth, there are times when I don't get enough caffeine and my head hurts. It's incapacitating. Silly.

That said, it makes me so happy, and when I'm sick, it allows me to get more work done.

So I'd like give up this burden of addiction once again.

I had given it up about two years ago for my first GWV retreat.

[rougeleader115]

I guess I disagree a bit here.

That is, I think it does matter what you consume.

For example, if you consume a sunset, isn't that better than candy? Especially too much candy which rots your teeth and could hurt your health in other ways?

If you eat one piece of candy mindfully, isn't that better than gorging yourself on healthy food?

Also, I like the good idea of good "addictions" vs. bad ones. I'm addicted to going to the gym. I don't work out too much. I take lots of days off. I don't do too much weight at a time, but rather I try to focus on having good form.

I just don't buy this is as bad as binge drinking which I used to do.

In fact, the more I exercise, the less I want to drink because drinking makes it harder to workout the next day.

Also, it depends upon what your after.

I agree here that there are definitely positive or negative things to fixate on. My fear at the time was say one day out of the blue I randomly want a piece of chocolate or ice cream, is that craving in and of itself the kind of craving we are trying to eradicate. It's not that I couldn't say no to it, just that I wanted it without any stimulation besides hunger and craving for it. I could not differentiate what to truly consider an addiction or just a random preference to something. But if I understand, randomly wanting a piece of candy once in a while does not mean I'm addicted to it.

 But positive things as you stated, can definitely be detrimental. I love to workout my body often as it keeps me feeling well and within my age range. But we all know people over do and obsess over exercise as Jeffery has mentioned about marathon runners, running till their feet are bloody or hearts wear out. I think this is where one just has to figure out what level is going to help one positively and what level it begins to be detrimental, and to navigate to the positive. Just like you realized the detrimental effects of caffeine and how you felt unsettled and craving it  whenever you were without it, would be signs of addiction for me. But you also realize it helps you physically and mentally when you are ill or overtired.

 That to me when done honestly and with critical thinking,  is navigating the positive and negative of the things available to us and figuring out what our addictions are. Even complete celibacy as Jeffrey explained has detrimental effects and that a vegetarian is not entirely good for human health. These conclusions are being based on basic sciences and history of our anatomy and evolution as well as personal experience, and not on opinion and faith. This a perfect example of being honest with ones experience and using critical thinking. I hope what I said does not sound too redundant or confusing, and I truly did not intend for it to sound condescending if it does, I don't normally talk on subjects like this.

Best wishes,
Rougeleader

[Frederick]

rougeleader115, I totally agree with your latest post. Being honest with the things available sounds like a healthy way to live: it's not either or many times because we are humans living on planet Earth not gods in heaven.

[rougeleader115]

Thanks Frederick, I could not have said it better lol.

[Jhanananda]

Fifth, there are times when I don't get enough caffeine and my head hurts. It's incapacitating. Silly.

Symptoms of withdrawal, such as above, are signs of addiction.

Well stated, Rougeleader.  You clear demonstrate critical thinking skills.

[Frederick]

Fifth, there are times when I don't get enough caffeine and my head hurts. It's incapacitating. Silly.

Symptoms of withdrawal, such as above, are signs of addiction.

Well stated, Rougeleader.  You clearly demonstrate critical thinking skills.

Yes, I'm totally addicted. I got off it for the second to last retreat, and I'd like to do so again.

I know I can do it, it's just a matter of starting. I drink decaf for most of the day, but that still has caffeine in it.

I use caffeine as my refuge which is part of the problem. Coffee makes me so happy!

Still I'd like to break the habit and go back to drinking decaf occasionally as I enjoy small amounts of beer from time to time with no addiction.