Author Topic: In search of understanding...  (Read 52094 times)

Jhanananda

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #150 on: December 15, 2015, 12:46:37 PM »
You bring up a good point though; that helping oneself must come first. If theyre not willing to help themselves, helping them becomes a wasted effort. They have to want to be free. I've heard Sam say similar things as well. Thank you for this, it prompts much thought.

I have found there is nothing that I can do for someone who has not taken up a contemplative life, so I keep my silence, maintain my bliss, and move away from the legions of demons, which are numberless.
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Cal

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #151 on: December 22, 2015, 07:11:46 PM »
I have found there to be more to helping others than just the demons. It seems as though a connection with that individual can be made as well. That feelings might be shared and experienced together.

I recall this mostly after Jhanon helping me to find the charisms. There were just so many uprisings of emotion that I couldnt explain. Things would randomly appear out of thin air. I would become anxious or frustrated seemingly from nothing at all. There were so many new things during that time-frame that it was hard to pinpoint anything at all. But later, Jhanon also described similar occurrences.

At that point in my life I had also just given up a 7 year opiate addiction, but it seemed on occasion that withdraw symptoms would arise even months after I had taken a pill. Kicking the addiction I can attribute wholly to my awakening and finding what it was I had been searching for. I no longer needed the opiates to dull the outside world after finding the inner life. Yet I could not explain why I felt that all-too familiar feeling of withdraw. Jhanon was also struggling with opiates at the time, and after conversation with him, he explained at those times he was going through withdraws.

I recall a specific incident around 3 am. I went from being calm, I believe I was finishing a movie before bed, to being anxious and almost deathly afraid of something instantly. There was a screeching in my ears I had never heard before and havent heard since. This wailing was someone or something crying out. I found out later the next day that Jhanon had had a rough night, and so I attributed that experience to his.

I'd hate to pin these feelings at these time wholly on another individual, because when they arose, they certainly became my own and required some depth in abating them. But before their arrival, I did not recognize them as being present. I'd only like to point out that in my experience that a link can be made and experience shared.

This also leaves me with questions. First off, has anyone else experienced this? Second, if so, can the good experiences be shared as well?

Jhanananda

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #152 on: December 22, 2015, 10:11:40 PM »
At that point in my life I had also just given up a 7 year opiate addiction, but it seemed on occasion that withdraw symptoms would arise even months after I had taken a pill. Kicking the addiction I can attribute wholly to my awakening and finding what it was I had been searching for. I no longer needed the opiates to dull the outside world after finding the inner life. Yet I could not explain why I felt that all-too familiar feeling of withdraw.

You are living proof, as well as just about everyone else on this forum, that learning to meditate deeply discharges our addictions; nonetheless, those pangs may return from time to time.  It is then that we must maintain our resolve not to rekindle the addiction.
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rougeleader115

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #153 on: December 22, 2015, 10:18:58 PM »
Hello Cal,

I just wanted to say that I experience the emotions and sometimes thoughts of others lucidly like you describe. At times I will all of a sudden feel a wave of anxiety out of nowhere. Within a few minutes my girlfriend may say, I don't know what's wrong but I'm feeling really anxious. Or will she is doing schoolwork in the room with me, i can literally feel her getting more anxious and tedious about it as time passes. I have also had a random bout of anxiety for a whole day without it being directly related to any of the problems in my life. This was only to find out the next day that my girlfriends mom was extremely stressed about something and needed to talk about it. These are only a few examples from my experience, but it has happened often enough without me trying to manipulate such an outcome that it must be something. Also from seeing other peoples posts here, there definitely seems to be an emotional barrier that becomes a lot more permeable even if not entirely transparent.

 I also want to thank you for your posts man. And Zack and bodhimind. Even though I don't post much any more, you guys seem to continuously talk about the exact subjects I have questions about and ask those questions in such a similar tone. Blows my mind sometimes. I will regrettably not be able to make it to the retreat this year. I hope it is safe and expansive experience for those who attend. I will be sitting heavily for meditation during those days as well. Much love.

Rougeleader
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 10:37:44 PM by rougeleader115 »

Cal

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #154 on: December 23, 2015, 01:05:59 AM »
Hello Cal,

I just wanted to say that I experience the emotions and sometimes thoughts of others lucidly like you describe. At times I will all of a sudden feel a wave of anxiety out of nowhere. Within a few minutes my girlfriend may say, I don't know what's wrong but I'm feeling really anxious. Or will she is doing schoolwork in the room with me, i can literally feel her getting more anxious and tedious about it as time passes. I have also had a random bout of anxiety for a whole day without it being directly related to any of the problems in my life. This was only to find out the next day that my girlfriends mom was extremely stressed about something and needed to talk about it. These are only a few examples from my experience, but it has happened often enough without me trying to manipulate such an outcome that it must be something. Also from seeing other peoples posts here, there definitely seems to be an emotional barrier that becomes a lot more permeable even if not entirely transparent.

 I also want to thank you for your posts man. And Zack and bodhimind. Even though I don't post much any more, you guys seem to continuously talk about the exact subjects I have questions about and ask those questions in such a similar tone. Blows my mind sometimes. I will regrettably not be able to make it to the retreat this year. I hope it is safe and expansive experience for those who attend. I will be sitting heavily for meditation during those days as well. Much love.

Rougeleader

This is a welcome synchronicity =). Just yesterday I was thinking about how you were. It's good to hear from you.

Cal

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #155 on: December 23, 2015, 01:09:23 AM »
At that point in my life I had also just given up a 7 year opiate addiction, but it seemed on occasion that withdraw symptoms would arise even months after I had taken a pill. Kicking the addiction I can attribute wholly to my awakening and finding what it was I had been searching for. I no longer needed the opiates to dull the outside world after finding the inner life. Yet I could not explain why I felt that all-too familiar feeling of withdraw.

You are living proof, as well as just about everyone else on this forum, that learning to meditate deeply discharges our addictions; nonetheless, those pangs may return from time to time.  It is then that we must maintain our resolve not to rekindle the addiction.

I think that the biggest driver to not returning to them falls within impermanence. Now I fully recognize the opiate as nothing more than a "knock-off" to the real deal; which pales greatly in comparison.

Cal

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #156 on: December 23, 2015, 08:06:35 PM »
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=26471

Well it was on the third page of my google search for "Jhana meditation forum" but a light shined through the erroneous "wall-o-text' I had been sifting through.


Thank you Sean, if you are here. It certainly was a welcome surprise for me when I seen you post a link to the GWV.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 08:13:05 PM by Cal »

Cal

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #157 on: December 27, 2015, 10:24:28 PM »
The winter before I left Tucson, I had a conversation with someone there whom I have known for a few decades.  He claimed OOBEs were just mental projection.  I of course said rel OOBEs are more real than this waking reality, and I can take you there. 

He said, "OK, do it."

That night, while in an OOBE I traveled to him, but the closer I got to him the more legions of demons that obstructed my path.  I gave up on trying and traveled elsewhere.

The moral of both of our stories is most people abound with demons, and are deeply afraid of having a genuine religious experience, so they put up obstacles to any aide that comes there way.  it is these legions of demons, so there is no point in helping such a person.

I am beginning to understand that taking actions in this regard comes with a burden. Possibly that of taking on anothers burden all-together. But, I also distinctly remember body slamming that minotaur fucker several times; I havent seen him in awhile  ;D

You bring up a good point though; that helping oneself must come first. If theyre not willing to help themselves, helping them becomes a wasted effort. They have to want to be free. I've heard Sam say similar things as well. Thank you for this, it prompts much thought.

It also reminds me of last nights sit. It was the same thing, many of them appear in their ghoulish fashion. There was this one though, a little goblin thing; I seen him clear as day. He tried to be scary, I'll give him that, but when he appeared he like punched at me, holding his little bottle, or whatever it was. Cute as shit, lil pointed green ears, jagged teeth, glowing red eyes. I'd squeeze him till he popped hahaha. But, it left me thinking that theres always another to take its place, so even when theyre are at a distance, its probably best to only attend to the light, unless they choose otherwise.

But still, I cant help but thinking how funny it might be to become a spiritual bowling ball. After-all, theyre quite relentless in their efforts  ;D

Him, the Minotaur. Μίνως as he may be called in Ancient Greek. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%9C%CE%AF%CE%BD%CF%89%CF%82 He was represented, as I recall without research, as the "Guardian of the Maze". I recall this sticking in my mind from childhood interests in Greek Mythology and hearing stories of Hercules and other Greek/Roman Gods. I seen reference while following an interest in the Children of Mithras/Illuminati before ever finding the charisms, as well.

Yet, I never found any synchronicity until now. The maze, the dream within a dream, the sphere within a sphere; all of it. This Minotaur in the maze was a simple reference that encompasses a great deal. These references are everywhere, Jhananada. I can't believe that I havent taken notice to see them.

I'd like to share something else. While attempting to reach out to an individual, to help them, I asked the Moon for guidance. I could not figure out the fashion in which it was received until recently visiting various websites. I'm not sure if they understand this or not, these sites I speak of, but ancient Egyptian iconography often depicts the Moon. I did not understand this, nor did I understand why the imagery of that meditation sit produced many images of individuals dressed in ancient Egyptian attire. But, after seeing these different iconography, I now understand why I seen that way. I believe this is the fashion that She might choose to communicate.

I've recently being reaching out in more public forums, such as facebook and others. I'll admit some fear is present, however, just as I can see some synchronicity across a broad spectrum, perhaps others may as well. 

I hope the retreat has been very fruitful thus far =)

Miss you all,
Cal

Jhanananda

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #158 on: January 01, 2016, 09:58:10 PM »
Yes, the Minotaur is a guardian spirit, and most cultures have such concept, and yes we can bump into them when we are in OOBE, especially when approaching another being.  It is a defense mechanism of the individual.  When we master the OOBE, then the guardian spirits have no effect upon us.
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Cal

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #159 on: January 08, 2016, 07:49:59 AM »
I seem to remember them the most, the Minotaurs. I've been working lately on lucidity, and it's be fairly fruitful. I've went from remembering a dream every couple of months to roughly 3-4 per week. Journaling them has been an excellent tool in helping with this.

Jhanananda

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #160 on: January 08, 2016, 09:08:34 PM »
Good work, Cal.  If you keep it up, plus your contemplative practice, then you are likely to get to lucidity 24/7, which I believe is what was meant in the suttas by arriving at the "deathless" (amatta).
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Cal

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #161 on: January 08, 2016, 11:35:32 PM »
Being lucid 24/7 is a long ways off from where I am now. Most often the dreams are like a cloud drifting through the most inner portion of my mind. When I catch them, I have to contemplate them then, otherwise they disappear. Journaling them has helped tremendously in being systematic with them, and even sometimes revealing more to them than I would have seen in simple contemplation. Plus, it allows a frame of reference to return to them, making them more vivid in the minds eye. It's the spectacular dreams that tend not to need much work. It doesnt happen very often, but sometimes I get this chill over me and I just wake up, while still in the dream. It becomes real...because it is real. Hyper real I should say, more real than sitting here typing this out. But i still take off, every time. There is this excitement, this freedom about them. This excitement has lead to my physical body waking up every time, so they tend to be very short lived. There is one thing that rings true about all of these experiences, every last one of them I have felt as though a heavy heavy burden was cast off. I am still not 100% sure what this burden is precisely, although I have my theories, and there are some coincedence  within them. But, I see myself more as a toddler inside of a playpen when it comes to the level of lucidity I have now; theres much more work to be done.

Jhanananda

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #162 on: January 10, 2016, 02:36:39 PM »
I m glad that you have found journalling your dreams has helped you develop your lucidity in the sleep state.  I too found that to be true.  I also found reviewing my previous year's dream journal at the beginning of the next year reveled additional insights.  Perhaps you, and others here, will find the same thing.
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Cal

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #163 on: January 12, 2016, 07:26:28 PM »
This image has something to it. I'm not a fan of all the third-eye emphasis that is out there on the web. Images like this as strewn throughout these types of websites, but something stopped me at this one.

It's frustrating that I know nothing about the context of the symbols, and cannot offer any interpretation of their meanings.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 07:31:27 PM by Cal »

Jhanananda

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Re: In search of understanding...
« Reply #164 on: January 13, 2016, 02:12:27 AM »
I find little evidence that any of the Egyptian pharaohs, or their priests, or their artists, had any experience in deep meditation.  What I see in past advanced cultures is a hegemonic leadership praying upon the peasants for wealth and power, and using a pretentious and hypocritical priesthood to facilitate that control.  Nonetheless, those who practice deep meditation and the OOBE might have such experiences as described by the painting.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 01:47:12 PM by Jhanananda »
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