Author Topic: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA  (Read 13344 times)

Michel

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SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« on: December 19, 2014, 12:08:16 AM »
Below Bhikkhu Bodhi provides us with a collection of interesting suttas from the Nikayas on the subjets of samatha and vipassana. My understanding is that insight is attained when one investigates the 5 dhammas in the 4th jhana. Some say that insight into the dhammas follows after samatha meditation since the mind is clear and well focused and is then ready to conduct an investigation into phenomena. Which one is it?


Quote from: SELECTED SUTTAS ON SAMATHA AND VIPASSANA - Bhikkhu Bodhi, trans.

FROM THE MAJJHIMA NIKAYA

No. 6: Aka_kheyya Sutta,”If One Should Wish” “If a monk should wish: ‘May I, by realizing it for myself with direct knowledge, here and now enter upon and dwell in the liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom,that is taintless with the destruction of the taints,’ let him fulfill the precepts, be devoted to internal serenity of mind, not neglect meditation, be possessed of insight, and dwell in empty huts.”

No. 149: Mahasa_ayatanika Sutta, “The Great Sixfold Base”

“When one abides uninflamed by lust, unfettered, uninfatuated, contemplating danger, then the five aggregates subject to clinging are diminished for oneself in the future; and one’s craving—which brings renewal of existence, is accompanied by delight and lust, and delights in this or that—is abandoned. One’s bodily and mental troubles are abandoned, one’s bodily and mental torments are abandoned, one’s bodily and mental fevers are abandoned, and one experiences bodily and mental pleasure.

“The view of a person such as this is right view. His intention is right intention, his effort is right effort, his mindfulness is right mindfulness, his concentration is right concentration. But his bodily action, his verbal action, and his livelihood have already been well purified earlier. Thus this Noble Eightfold Path comes to fulfilment in him by development. When he develops this Noble Eightfold Path,the four foundations of mindfulness also come to fulfilment by development ... the seven enlightenment factors [7 sets of 37 qualities] also come to fulfilment in him by development. These two things—serenity and insight—occur in him yoked evenly together (tass’ime dve dhamma yuganaddha vattanti samatho ca vipassana ca). He fully understands by direct knowledge those things that should be fully understood by direct knowledge. He abandons by direct knowledge those things that should be abandoned by direct knowledge. He develops by direct knowledge those things that should be developed by direct knowledge. He realizes by direct knowledge those things that should be realized by direct knowledge.”

FROM THE SAMYUTTA NIKAYA

43:2 Serenity and Insight

“Monks, I will teach you the unconditioned and the path leading to the unconditioned. Listen....

“And what is the unconditioned? The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the unconditioned.
“And what is the path leading to the unconditioned? Serenity and insight: this is called the path leading to the unconditioned.

“Thus, monks, I have taught you the unconditioned and the path leading to the unconditioned. Whatever should be done by a compassionate teacher out of compassion for his disciples, desiring their welfare, that I have done for you. These are the feet of trees, these are empty huts. Meditate, monks, do not be negligent, lest you regret it later. This is our instruction to you.”

45:159 The Guest House

“When a monk develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path, he fully understands by direct knowledge those things that are to be fully understood by direct knowledge; he abandons by direct knowledge those things that are to be abandoned by direct knowledge; he realizes by direct knowledge those things that are to be realized by direct knowledge; he develops by direct knowledge those things that are to be developed by direct knowledge.

“And what are the things to be fully understood by direct knowledge? It should be said: the five aggregates subject to clinging. What five? The form aggregate subject to clinging … the consciousness aggregate subject to clinging. These are the things to be fully understood by direct knowledge. “And what are the things to be abandoned by direct knowledge? Ignorance and craving for existence. These are the things to be abandoned by direct knowledge.

“And what are the things to be realized by direct knowledge? True knowledge and liberation. These are the things to be realized by direct knowledge.
“And what are the things to be developed by direct knowledge? Serenity and insight. These are the things to be developed by direct knowledge.”

FROM THE ANGUTTARA NIKAYA

2:31 Serenity and Insight

“Monks, these two things pertain to true knowledge. What two? Serenity and insight. When serenity is developed, what benefit does one experience? The mind is developed. When the mind is developed, what benefit does one experience? Lust is abandoned. When insight is developed, what benefit does one experience? Wisdom is developed. When wisdom is developed, what benefit does one experience? Ignorance is abandoned. “A mind defiled by lust is not liberated, and wisdom defiled by ignorance is not developed. Thus, monks, through the fading away of lust there is liberation of mind, and through the fading away of ignorance there is liberation by wisdom.”

4:170 Four Ways to Arahantship

The Venerable Ananda addressed the monks: “Friends, whatever monk or nun has declared the attainment of arahantship in my presence has done so by these four paths or by a certain one among them. What four?

(1) “Here, a monk develops insight preceded by serenity (samathapubba_gama_ vipassana_ bhaveti). As he is developing insight preceded by serenity, the path is generated. He pursues this path, develops it, and cultivates it. As he is pursuing, developing, and cultivating this path, the fetters are
abandoned and the underlying tendencies are uprooted.

(2) “Again, a monk develops serenity preceded by insight (vipassanapubba_gama_ samatha_ bhaveti). As he is developing serenity preceded by insight, the path is generated. He pursues this path, develops it, and cultivates it. As he is pursuing, developing, and cultivating this path, the fetters are abandoned and the underlying tendencies are uprooted.

(3) “Again, a monk develops serenity and insight in conjunction (samathavipassana_ yuganaddha_ bhaveti). As he is developing serenity and insight in conjunction, the path is generated. He pursues this path, develops it, and cultivates it. As he is pursuing, developing, and cultivating this path, the fetters are abandoned and the underlying tendencies are uprooted.

(4) “Again, a monk’s mind is seized by restlessness about the Dhamma (dhammuddhaccaviggahita_ manasa_ hoti). But there comes an occasion when his mind becomes internally steady, composed, unified, and concentrated (ta citta_ ajjhattameva santi__hati sannisidati ekodi hoti samadhiyati). Then the path is generated in him. He pursues this path, develops it, and cultivates it. As he is pursuing, developing, and cultivating this path, the fetters are abandoned and the underlying tendencies are uprooted.

“Whatever monk or nun, friends, has declared the attainment of arahantship in my presence has done so by these four paths or by a certain one among them.”

4:93 Four Kinds of Persons (In Brief)

“Monks, there are these four kinds of persons found existing in the world. What four?

(1) Here, some person gains internal serenity of mind (labhi ajjhatta_cetosamathassa) but not the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena.

(2) Some other person gains the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena (labhi adhipaññadhammavipassanaya) but not internal serenity of mind.

(3) Still another gains neither internal serenity of mind nor the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena.

(4) And still another gains both internal serenity of mind and the higher wisdom of
insight into phenomena.

 (1) “Monks, the person among these who gains internal serenity of mind but not the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena should base himself on internal serenity of mind and make an effort to gain the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena. Then, some time later, he gains both internal serenity of mind and the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena.

(2) “The person who gains the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena but not internal serenity of mind should base himself on the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena and make an effort to gain internal serenity of mind. Then, some time later, he gains both the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena and internal serenity of mind.

(3) “The person who gains neither internal serenity of mind nor the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena should put forth extraordinary desire, effort,
zeal, enthusiasm, indefatigability, mindfulness, and clear comprehension to obtain both those wholesome qualities. Just as one whose clothes or head had caught fire would put forth extraordinary desire, effort, zeal, enthusiasm, indefatigability,mindfulness, and clear comprehension to extinguish [the fire on] his clothes or head, so that person should put forth extraordinary desire, effort, zeal, enthusiasm,indefatigability, mindfulness, and clear comprehension to obtain both those wholesome qualities. Then, some time later, he gains both internal serenity of mind and the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena.

(4) “The person who gains both internal serenity of mind and the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena should base himself on those same wholesome qualities and make a further effort to reach the destruction of the taints. “These, monks, are the four kinds of persons found existing in the world.”

4:94 Four Kinds of Persons (In Detail)

“Monks, there are these four kinds of persons found existing in the world. What four?

(1) Here, monks, some person gains internal serenity of mind but not the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena.

(2) Some other person gains the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena but not internal serenity of mind.

(3) Still another gains neither internal serenity of mind nor the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena.

(4) And still another gains both internal serenity of mind and the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena.

(1) “Monks, the person among these who gains internal serenity of mind but not the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena should approach one who gains the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena and inquire of him: ‘How, friend, should conditioned phenomena be seen? How should conditioned phenomena be explored? How should conditioned phenomena be discerned by insight?’ The other then answers him as he has seen and understood the matter thus: ‘Conditioned phenomena should be seen in such a way, explored in such a way, discerned by insight in such a way’ (eva_ kho, avuso, sa_khara da__habba, eva_ sa_khara sammasitabba, eva_ sa_khara vipassitabba’ti). Then, some time later, he gains both internal serenity of mind and the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena.

(2) “The person who gains the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena but not internal serenity of mind should approach one who gains internal serenity of mind and inquire of him: ‘How, friend, should the mind be steadied? How should the mind be composed? How should the mind be unified? How should the mind be concentrated?’ The other then answers him as he has seen and understood the matter thus: ‘The mind should be steadied in such a way, composed in such a way, unified in such a way, concentrated in such a way’ (‘eva_ kho, avuso, citta_sa__hapetabba_, eva_ citta_ sannisadetabba_, eva_ citta_ ekodi katabba_, eva_ citta_ samadahatabban’ti). Then, some time later, he gains both the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena and internal serenity of mind.

(3) “The person who gains neither internal serenity of mind nor the higher
wisdom of insight into phenomena should approach one who gains both and
inquire of him: ‘How, friend, should the mind be steadied? How should the mind be composed? How should the mind be unified? How should the mind be concentrated? How should conditioned phenomena be seen? How should conditioned phenomena be explored? How should conditioned phenomena be
discerned by insight?’ The other then answers him as he has seen and understood the matter thus: ‘The mind should be steadied in such a way, composed in such a way, unified in such a way, concentrated in such a way. Conditioned phenomena should be seen in such a way, explored in such a way, discerned by insight in such a way.’ Then, some time later, he gains both internal serenity of mind and the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena.

(4) “The person who gains both internal serenity of mind and the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena should base himself on those same wholesome qualities and make a further effort for the destruction of the taints. “These, monks, are the four kinds of persons found existing in the world.”
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 12:29:36 AM by Michel »

Jhanananda

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2014, 10:04:31 PM »
Hello Michel, the premise that there are two distinct practice paths within the Buddha Dhamma is based upon a profound level of translator bias. You could start with a few essays that I wrote a few years ago in response to this question.

Dispelling Common Misconceptions Regarding Insight (vipassana) and Absorption (jhana/dhyana)

Understanding Insight and Revelation

The Lack of Evidence In Support of a 'Dry' Insight Practice

Exposing translator bias in the Translation of the Pali Canon and other Buddhist literature (updated 11-10-04)

A critique of Bhikkhu Bodhi
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 10:06:10 PM by Jhanananda »
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Michel

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2014, 12:27:46 AM »
Thank-you for the links to your insightful essays on samatha and vipassana, Jhananda.

These following passages from the essays were very good and helpful:

Quote from:  from various essays on vipassana by Jhananda
"The Sanskrit term 'vipassaná' means most clearly 'insight,' which is 'to see clearly' into the nature of a subject. It is an intuitive insight or a light flashing forth and exposing the truth within any subject that one directs one's attention to. There is a common misconception that insight is a practice strategy (magga). This, however, is an error in understanding that cannot stand up to canonical review. Insight is just one of the 12 attainments (phala) of the contemplative life, and depends upon the attainment of meditative absorption (jhana) for its attainment, just as all of the other attainments (phala) depend upon absorption as their source.

It is insight-wisdom ('vipassaná) that is the decisive liberating factor in any contemplative tradition. Forinstance it is called 'revelation' in Christianity. The culmination of the attainment of insight (s. visuddhi VI), which leads directly to the stages of holiness. Insight is not the result of a mere intellectual understanding, but is won through direct meditative observation (jhana) upon an abstract meditation subject. A classic example of insight is revealed in the following stanza of the Mahaasaccaka sutta (MN 36), where the Buddha gains the insight that jhana is THE path to enlightenment...

Quite a few misguided Theravadan meditation teachers say the Buddha taught a meditation technique called 'Vipassana' (insight).  This is clearly a gross error in dhamma. The meditation technique called 'Vipassana' was never introduced by the Buddha.  It came as a latter invention by the priesthood of Theravadan Buddhism.  It is in fact a repackaging of fragments of the Buddha's four discourse on Mindfulness (Sati) with the charismatic component of bliss (piiti), joy (sukha) and ecstasy (jhana) removed (See DN 22, MN 10, 118 and 119).

 OK, I get the idea of what you're saying. You're saying knowledge of the dhammas are the fruits of jhana.

DN-22, below, describes the 5 dhammas. It doesn't say much more about how these knowledges are acquired.

Quote from: The Five Dhammas - DN 22
D. Mental Qualities
"And how does an aspirant abide focused upon mental qualities?
[1] the five hindrances
"There is the case where an aspirant remains focused upon mental qualities with respect to the five hindrances. And how does an aspirant remain focused upon mental qualities with respect to the five hindrances? There is the case where, there is sensual desire present within. An aspirant discerns that 'There is sensual desire present within me.' Or, there is no sensual desire present within, one discerns that 'There is no sensual desire present within me.' One discerns how there is the arising of a lack of sensual desire. And one discerns how there is the abandoning of sensual desire once it has arisen. And one discerns how there is no further appearance in the future of sensual desire that has been abandoned. (The same formula is repeated for the remaining hindrances: ill will, sloth and torpor, restlessness and anxiety, and uncertainty.)
"In this way one remains focused internally upon mental qualities, or externally upon mental qualities, or both internally and externally upon mental qualities. Or one remains focused upon the phenomenon of origination with regard to mental qualities, upon the phenomenon of passing away with regard to mental qualities, or on the phenomenon of origination and passing away with regard to mental qualities. Or one has the awareness that 'There are mental qualities' is maintained to the extent of knowledge and remembrance. And one abides independent, not clinging to anything in the world. This is how an aspirant remains focused upon mental qualities with respect to the five hindrances.
[2] (the five clinging-aggregates)
"Furthermore, the aspirant abides focused upon mental qualities with respect to the five clinging-aggregates. And how does one remain focused upon mental qualities with respect to the five clinging-aggregates? There is the case where an aspirant [discerns]: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance. Such is sensation... Such is perception... Such are mental projections (6)... Such is cognition (7), such its origination, such its disappearance.'
"In this way one remains focused internally upon the mental qualities, or focused externally... not clinging to anything in the world. This is how an aspirant remains focused upon the mental qualities with respect to the five clinging-aggregates.
[3] The six senses
"Furthermore, the aspirant remains focused upon mental qualities with respect to the sixfold internal and external sensory apparatus. And how does one remain focused upon mental qualities with respect to the sixfold internal and external sensory apparatus? There is the case where one discerns the eye organ, one discerns forms, one discerns the attachment (fetter) that arises dependent upon both. One discerns how there is the arising of a lack of attachment (fetter). And one discerns how there is the abandoning of attachment (fetter) once it has arisen. And one discerns how there is no further appearance in the future of attachment (fetter) that has been abandoned. (The same formula is repeated for the remaining sensory apparatus: ear, nose, tongue, body, and intellect.)
"In this way one abides focused internally upon the mental qualities, or focused externally... not clinging to anything in the world. This is how an aspirant abides focused upon mental qualities with respect to the sixfold internal and external sensory apparatus.
[4] the seven factors of enlightenment
"Furthermore, the aspirant abides focused upon mental qualities with respect to the seven factors of enlightenment. And how does one abide focused upon mental qualities with respect to the seven factors for enlightenment? There is the case where mindfulness, as a factor for enlightenment is present within, one discerns that mindfulness as a factor for enlightenment is present within me.' Or, there being no mindfulness as a factor for enlightenment present within, one discerns that mindfulness as a factor for enlightenment is not present within me.' one discerns how there is the arising of unarisen mindfulness as a factor for enlightenment. And one discerns how there is the culmination of the development of mindfulness as a factor for enlightenment once it has arisen. (The same formula is repeated for the remaining factors for enlightenment: investigation-of-states (dhamma-vicaya), energy (viriya), bliss (piiti) (8), tranquility (passaddhi), absorption (samadhi), and equanimity (upekkha)).
"In this way one abides focused internally upon mental qualities, or externally... not clinging to anything in the world. This is how an aspirant remains focused upon mental qualities with respect to the seven factors for enlightenment.
[5] four noble truths
"Furthermore, the aspirant abides focused upon mental qualities with respect to the four noble truths. And how does one abides focused upon mental qualities in and of themselves with respect to the four noble truths? There is the case where one discerns, as it is actually present, that 'This is dissatisfaction (dukkha) (9)... This is the origination of dissatisfaction (dukkha)... This is the cessation of dissatisfaction (dukkha)... This is the way leading to the cessation of dissatisfaction (dukkha).'

It comes down to this above passages from DN-22, which is rather vague: "In this way one abides focused internally upon mental qualities, or externally... not clinging to anything in the world. This is how an aspirant remains focused upon mental qualities with respect to... [any of the 5 dhammas]."

Do the insights into the dhammas automatically arise from deep absorption, or do you reflect upon them afterwards outside of meditation? You must know what to look for, what to investigate, which is the 2nd factor of the 7 factors of enlightenment, right?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 12:57:02 AM by Michel »

Jhanananda

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 06:36:30 PM »
It comes down to this above passages from DN-22, which is rather vague: "In this way one abides focused internally upon mental qualities, or externally... not clinging to anything in the world. This is how an aspirant remains focused upon mental qualities with respect to... [any of the 5 dhammas]."
I take this line as being mindfully self-aware.
Do the insights into the dhammas automatically arise from deep absorption, or do you reflect upon them afterwards outside of meditation? You must know what to look for, what to investigate, which is the 2nd factor of the 7 factors of enlightenment, right?
It was my experience, once I began to spend more time in the altered states of consciousness of deep meditation, various superior fruit began to arise, such as intuitive, revelatory insight into a lifestyle, and philosophy that would deepen further my meditation experiences.  By meditating ever deeper, I found more superior fruit (maha-phala).  It is that simple.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 11:18:41 PM by Michel »
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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2014, 11:21:19 PM »
I edited your post, #3, Jhananda. The quotes and the replies to them were all mixed up. I hope you don't mind.

Michel

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2014, 11:30:38 PM »
Thank-you for your reply, Jhananda.

 I think one of the reasons everyone is confused about vipassana being a practice is since the 4th factor of Right Mindfulness, which is mindful contemplation of the 5 dhammas, is contained within the 3 groupings of meditation training in the N8P, that is: Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, and Right Meditation.

What do you think of Thanissaro's view on Vipassana? The following is a conclusion to one of his essays titled, One Tool Among Many:
The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice
, which you cited in part in one of your essays, but not this particular passage:

Quote from: Thanissaro
...Vipassana is not a meditation technique. It's a quality of mind — the ability to see events clearly in the present moment. Although mindfulness is helpful in fostering vipassana, it's not enough for developing vipassana to the point of total release. Other techniques and approaches are needed as well. In particular, vipassana needs to be teamed with samatha — the ability to settle the mind comfortably in the present — so as to master the attainment of strong states of absorption, or jhana. Based on this mastery, samatha and vipassana are then applied to a skillful program of questioning, called appropriate attention, directed at all experience: exploring events not in terms of me/not me, or being/not being, but in terms of the four noble truths. The meditator pursues this program until it leads to a fivefold understanding of all events: in terms of their arising, their passing away, their drawbacks, their allure, and the escape from them. Only then can the mind taste release.

This program for developing vipassana and samatha, in turn, needs the support of many other attitudes, mental qualities, and techniques of practice...

Sure sounds very complicated. The full essay is available here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.002.than.html
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 11:49:14 PM by Michel »

Jhanananda

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2014, 12:13:19 AM »
I edited your post, #3, Jhananda. The quotes and the replies to them were all mixed up. I hope you don't mind.
Thank-you, Michel, for looking after things here.  I traveled to another town, where there is a storage unit large enough to contain my research and personal items.  I have been gone for a few days, and I have been distracted by the whole monumental idea of moving this project in just a few weeks.  So, thank-you for fixing my oversights.
Thank-you for your reply, Jhananda.

 I think one of the reasons everyone is confused about vipassana being a practice is since the 4th factor of Right Mindfulness, which is mindful contemplation of the 5 dhammas, is contained within the 3 groupings of meditation training in the N8P, that is: Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, and Right Meditation.
It is more complicated than that.  If you read my essay Exposing translator bias in the Translation of the Pali Canon and other Buddhist literature, then you should get the very disturbing understanding that no Buddhist priest for the last 2,000 years has understood the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path.  So, why should they understand something as abstract as insight (vipassana)?
What do you think of Thanissaro's view on Vipassana? The following is a conclusion to one of his essays titled, One Tool Among Many:
The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice
, which you cited in part in one of your essays, but not this particular passage:

Quote from: Thanissaro
...Vipassana is not a meditation technique. It's a quality of mind — the ability to see events clearly in the present moment. Although mindfulness is helpful in fostering vipassana, it's not enough for developing vipassana to the point of total release. Other techniques and approaches are needed as well. In particular, vipassana needs to be teamed with samatha — the ability to settle the mind comfortably in the present — so as to master the attainment of strong states of absorption, or jhana. Based on this mastery, samatha and vipassana are then applied to a skillful program of questioning, called appropriate attention, directed at all experience: exploring events not in terms of me/not me, or being/not being, but in terms of the four noble truths. The meditator pursues this program until it leads to a fivefold understanding of all events: in terms of their arising, their passing away, their drawbacks, their allure, and the escape from them. Only then can the mind taste release.

This program for developing vipassana and samatha, in turn, needs the support of many other attitudes, mental qualities, and techniques of practice...
I agree with Thanissaro on so very few topics, but I do agree with him that "Vipassana is not a meditation technique."  The problem is he thinks "samatha and vipassana are then applied to a skillful program of questioning," which shows that he too has no idea what the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path is, nor what the superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala) are.
Sure sounds very complicated. The full essay is available here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.002.than.html
Yes, I have read his essay.  I believe others should, and compare what he writes to what I write, and then learn to meditate deeply, and give rise to the superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala), then decide for yourself who is right and who is wrong.

Please note: I moved the topic to unpacking religion, because this topic is a key topic that has to be unpacked within Buddhism for anyone to understand the Noble Eightfold Path.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 12:15:42 AM by Jhanananda »
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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2014, 03:23:30 PM »
This sutta associates the contemplation of the Five Aggregates, and the three characteristics of existence, with the first four Jhanas.

Quote from: Anguttara Nikaya - AN 4.124
The Jhana Sutta: Mental Absorption (2)

translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

"Monks, there are these four types of individuals to be found existing in the world. Which four?"

There is the case where an individual, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. At the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in conjunction with the devas of the Pure Abodes. This rebirth is not in common with run-of-the-mill people.

"Again, there is the case where an individual... enters the second jhana... the third jhana... the fourth jhana... He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. At the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in conjunction with the devas of the Pure Abodes. This rebirth is not in common with run-of-the-mill people.

"These are four types of individuals to be found existing in the world."

Bodhi's translation is similar:
Quote from: Anguttara Nikaya - AN 4.124

“Bhikkhus, there are these four kinds of persons found existing in the world. What four?

(1) “ Here, bhikkhus, secluded from sensual pleasures … some person enters and dwells in the first jhāna…. He contemplates whatever phenomena there pertain to form, feeling, perception, volitional activities, and consciousness as impermanent, as suffering, as a disease, as a boil, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as disintegrating, as empty, as non-self. 815 With the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in companionship with the devas of the pure abodes. 816 This is a rebirth not shared with worldlings. (2) “Again , some person , with the subsiding of thought and examination, enters and dwells in the second jhāna…. (3) With the fading away as well of rapture … he enters and dwells in the third jhāna…. (4) With the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the previous passing away of joy and dejection , he enters and dwells in the fourth jhāna, neither painful nor pleasant, which has purification of mindfulness by equanimity. He contemplates whatever phenomena there pertain to form, feeling, perception, volitional activities, and consciousness as impermanent, as suffering, as a disease, as a boil, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as disintegrating, as empty, as non-self. With the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in companionship with the devas of the pure abodes. This is a rebirth not shared with worldlings.

“These, bhikkhus, are the four kinds of persons found existing in the world.”

Bodhi, Bhikkhu (2012-11-13). The Numerical Discourses of the Buddha: A Complete Translation of the Anguttara Nikaya (Teachings of the Buddha) (Kindle Locations 10838-10852). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 09:42:25 PM by Michel »

Jhanananda

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2014, 11:40:27 PM »
This sutta associates the contemplation of the Five Aggregates, and the three characteristics of existence, with the first four Jhanas.
I agree that mindful self-awareness is a critical aspect of the contemplative life, and contemplation upon it leads to the religious experience (samadhi/jhana).
Quote from: Anguttara Nikaya - AN 4.124
The Jhana Sutta: Mental Absorption (2)

translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

"Monks, there are these four types of individuals to be found existing in the world. Which four?"

There is the case where an individual, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation.
Now, here we can clearly see that Thanissaro and Bodhi have absolutely no attainment, nor even an understanding of contemplative language, because a rapture is a Christian religious term that specifically refers to an OOBE.  OOBEs occur from the 5th samadhi on, not at the first samadhi (first jhana).

Secondly, 'pleasure' is not the term ever used by any mystic of any religion for the religious experience (samadhi); whereas, 'bliss' is.
Quote from: Anguttara Nikaya - AN 4.124 Bodhi
…. He contemplates whatever phenomena there pertain to form, feeling, perception, volitional activities, and consciousness as impermanent, as suffering, as a disease, as a boil, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as disintegrating, as empty, as non-self...
Here is another example of how the Buddha dhamma has been corrupted by deeply flawed translations by both Bodhi and Thanissaro. How can consciousness be impermanent and lead to suffering (dhukha)?  Well, in the hands of morons, like Bodhi and Thanissaro the dhamma ends up looking idiotic.

Quote from: Anguttara Nikaya - AN 4.124 Bodhi
...with the subsiding of thought and examination, enters and dwells in the second jhāna….
When did "thought and examination" ever lead to the religious experience (jhana)?  Never.  Again we have a clear example of how in the hands of morons, like the Bodhi and Thanissaro, the dhamma ends up looking idiotic.
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Michel

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2014, 05:22:57 PM »

Quote from: Anguttara Nikaya - AN 4.124, Bodhi
There is the case where an individual, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self.
What I want to get across, Jhananda, is that both translations by Thanissaro and Bodhi say that one is to enter jhana and then contemplate the Five Aggregates in terms of impermanence, suffering and non-self. Is this not the practice of insight (vipassana) meditation? Or have they corrupted the meaning of the original sutta written in Pali? Or, perhaps the sutta itself, in its original Pali, is a corruption of what the Buddha taught?

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2014, 10:56:10 PM »
I do not see how Anguttara Nikaya - AN 4.124 is about contemplation of the Five Aggregates in terms of impermanence.  It is more about renunciation, "withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities;" not observation.  As one goes deep into meditation, then one has to let go at ever deeper levels.

Also, vipassana (insight) is not observation.  It is intuitive, revelatory insight into any subject one attends to.  That attending is not a cognitive reflection.  It is just bringing one's attention upon a subject, and when insight is active, then one is just flooded with content about that subject.
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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2014, 11:39:56 PM »
I do not see how Anguttara Nikaya - AN 4.124 is about contemplation of the Five Aggregates in terms of impermanence.  It is more about renunciation, "withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities;" not observation.  As one goes deep into meditation, then one has to let go at ever deeper levels.
Yes, but after one withdraws from sensuality, and from unskillful qualities, the sutta goes on to say that one "enters & remains in the first jhana," and that one "regards whatever phenomena that there  are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self." That's how I interpret it. Maybe I'm wrong?

Also, vipassana (insight) is not observation.  It is intuitive, revelatory insight into any subject one attends to.  That attending is not a cognitive reflection.  It is just bringing one's attention upon a subject, and when insight is active, then one is just flooded with content about that subject.
Is this happening while one is in jhana?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 11:43:34 PM by Michel »

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2014, 01:56:42 AM »
Yes, but after one withdraws from sensuality, and from unskillful qualities, the sutta goes on to say that one "enters & remains in the first jhana," and that one "regards whatever phenomena that there  are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self." That's how I interpret it. Maybe I'm wrong?
One of the most common and most fundamental misunderstandings that exists in the contemplative community is people seem to think that they have to do something.  This is simply not true.  Just still the mind, feel the bliss, and allow the religious experience (samadhi) to go deeper on its own.  We just have to learn to get out of the way, and let the religious experience (samadhi) happen.
Is this happening while one is in jhana?
Sometimes, and sometime it is not necessary to be in a formal meditation session at depth for insight to occur.  When one consistently meditates to the depth of the 2nd jhana, then one has learned to keep the mind still throughout the day, when those conditions are satisfied, then intuitive, revelatory insight becomes one's constant companion.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 12:38:30 PM by Jhanananda »
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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2014, 11:43:52 PM »


What were the insights or revelations that you gained from mastering all 8 levels of meditation?

At one time while I was manic, one of the revelations that came to me was that of non-self, or the idea that the ego is a false construct of one's identity. I was telling everyone that I didn't exist. At the time I was unable to translate this insight into words that anyone could understand. They thought it was all crazy nonsense.

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Re: SAMATHA & VIPASSANA
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2014, 10:29:28 AM »
What were the insights or revelations that you gained from mastering all 8 levels of meditation?
Everyone was just a cell in my organism.
At one time while I was manic, one of the revelations that came to me was that of non-self, or the idea that the ego is a false construct of one's identity. I was telling everyone that I didn't exist. At the time I was unable to translate this insight into words that anyone could understand. They thought it was all crazy nonsense.
Well, if I were to tell people what I wrote above, then I am sure they would have thought I was nuts as well.  However, being able to articulate one's insights and attainments within the context of other mystics is the best way to avoid the psychiatrist. 

Nonetheless as you can see from my history, that and 75c will get me a senior coffee at McDonald's.  So, my recommendation is if one cannot be valued as part of a mystical community, then it is better to disappear into the wilderness and never be heard from again, like Lao Tzu.
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