I have decided to post the content of the thread. I wish to know if I was in anyway ignorant, not diplomatic, or incorrect.
Original Post of the ThreadJhanon: "A Suggestion for New Years Resolutions"
All transformation has absorption as the underlying mechanic. Rain falls to the earth. The soil absorbs it and becomes fertile. The seed absorbs the fertile nutrients and oxygen, causing it to sprout above the ground. The first leaves absorb the light of the sun, and the plant blossoms.
Consciousness transforms the same way. It absorbs experiences and transforms. But when consciousness absorbs in consciousness itself, the most profound transformation available occurs. This happens in both death and the ultra-refined states of consciousness afforded by meditative absorption. Both of these experiences are similar and often identical. Yet, one of those you can come back from. If you can die, then you can also attain meditative absorption."
Person 1: i am not much of one for resolutions at new years, i figure if i resolve to do anything i will just do it and not wait for a certain day but, for some reason, you reminded me of a memory from my early 20's. i was at a healing gathering be hosted by the coyote clan at heart lake (that is up above Spokane) and there was a full on shaman there. at one point i was talking to him about all the amazing trippy fantastic stuff my brain was thinking through and he reached down, picked up a rock and handed it to me. then he said "close your hand and tell me what you feel" i felt the rock in my hand and knew it was mother earth and the strength it represented. i knew it was an energy and something of great respect, so i told him so. he looked me in the eyes, shook his head and said "no, it is just a rock" make of that what you will.
Jhanon: My feeling is, if he was familiar with transcendent states, that he was encouraging the discontinuation of coveting the human realm. I've found those I can most quickly teach to attain the higher states of consciousness have an intense dispassion toward the physical realm. In other words, they are very unhappy. Just as I did when it first happened. But, you asked me to make of it what I will. It's up to you, of course, and I respect your view. It's an interesting story.
Person 1: so you just assume what ever you think and say is right because if anyone disagrees with you then they are just not as smart as you? sometimes the hardest things to understand are the most simple, not the most complex.
Jhanon: Not at all. I was conveying my own personal experience with very similar situations.
Person 2: We die every moment
Person 1: okay, i realize you are not always sure of how what you say comes across, but this is the one that made me flinch on the idea of i am so much smarter than others. you said you like one people make you aware of it "if he was as familiar with transcendent states as I,". it comes across like you know so much more than someone who is a full blown shaman, trained for the last 30-40 years of his life. it may be a different direction than yours but that does not make it less.
Jhanon: I respect contemplative shamanism, and said what I said because you asked me to "make of it what I will." I said it the way I said it to ensure it was as accurate as possible.
Person 2: "if he was as familiar with transcendent states as I,"
I don't see that statement anywhere in Jhanon's comments .
Person 1: that is called editing, because i copied and pasted it. now it is: " if he was familiar with transcendent states "
Person 2: Its always a personal journey regardless.
Why? Because there are as many levels of mind and karmic dispositions as there are sentient beings
Person 2: The best we can do is share our experiences.
Person 1: that was one of the points i was shooting for, just because it is a different path does not make it less. the powers know that i have definitely had my own path. Jhanon, you often remind me of myself in my earlier times, that is partially why i take the time to give you a hard time. i se a nice potential in you and think that the more different ways you think about it the better you will get it. i hope you get it because it is an amazing thing, mind you, if you get it it can drive you mad.
Jhanon: I changed it before you commented. I recalled previous discussions where you felt I was insulting your intelligence, and hastily gave the whole post a "once over." I don't want to discuss this any further. I think you should have more confidence in your intelligence and not so easily feel as though I am insulting it.
Person 1: i did not feel insulted, i felt like you were downgrading a shaman who had trained a good chunk of his life to be what he was. it felt disrespectful to him.
Person 2: You are coming across as a bit defensive there, Person 1. With all due respect.
Person 2: Just sayin
Person 2: True Shamans don't have ego invested that way .. I'm sure he appreciates your concern though
Person 1: you kidding, lol, he would laugh at me and call me stupid for even defending the point as there was no point to it other than to make a point that might not even be made proper anyways, lol.
Person 2: Ya... so its all pretty redundant
Person 2: Cheers
Jhanon: And yet people accuse me of insulting their intelligence, or they start spewing dogma, often Buddhist dogma, "crazy wisdom", unrelated to the conversation. And it's seriously depressing. I was the family mediator and pacifier in my dysfunctional family. So I know how to end an argument. But the ferocity and wrath is terrifying. It's like they're possessed by drunken demons--in a manner of speaking.
