Author Topic: Winston's Meditation Case Histories  (Read 41736 times)

bodhimind

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Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« on: January 01, 2015, 03:00:59 PM »
Dear All,

I'm new to this forum and I'm really glad to have found it because many of my thoughts seemed to exactly match the information that I've read here. I'll start my meditation experiences.

I'm currently a 23-year-old medical student in Australia and all my life since I was young, I've been thinking that everyone around me seemed to act a little like zombies - if not, puppets on strings attached to conditions. I don't know why, but I felt like the whole world seemed a little rigid of sorts, as if things were already set in motion and all the actors were playing out their own scripts.

I kept asking everyone around me if they thought that way and they would just ask me to hush and just work hard to earn my keep. I even questioned the religions that I was exposed to such as the practice of praying to deities as a form of "Buddhism". It really got me thinking - Does this praying really work? Since nobody could answer me, I decided to find the answers myself. Thank goodness for the Internet. This then spiralled all the way to all my "adventures" in discovering my spirituality.

At one point I was deeply interested at the prospect of self-hypnosis. I was reading all the literature on how people could be placed into a trance and then suggested to do things. This got me thinking - the conscious mind that we think we all have really does not have that much of a control over what we do. It turns out that neuroscience research validated it later, saying that unconscious decisions are made far before a conscious decision can be reached.

I also then delved into courses that had these self-hypnosis tapes. It all started with the Silva Method. I managed to buy the tapes of the original course and at one point of the Alpha meditation (with the three fingers anchoring technique) tape, I grew mindful of my whole body pulsing. This suddenly gave way to a bright shining light. At this point I was a little afraid of the phenomena, so I withdrew. I realized that I couldn't get back that experience no matter how hard I tried after that.

Later on, I got into the wave of the "Law of Attraction" fad. I was thinking, "Could it be possible that our thoughts do create our reality?" I found it a little absurd when the movie The Secret claimed that every thought in a physical brain spiralled to exactly what you'd want. As I investigated further, I realized that it could be possible for the sub/unconscious mind to influence the health of the body and its attitude/habits. In a way, it did influence reality... but only the body, and reality? Certainly not to the point the movie claimed. I was quite dismissive at this point, until I stumbled on Magick.

There is huge literature on Magick itself, so I started out with the Wiccans and traced the origin back to Aleister Crowley. Man, the stories of this man were evil to a new degree. I didn't think much of it at first as I didn't know, but I came across his works. Crowley was a very smart individual apparently and had studied and practiced many different religions, including Buddhism and Taoism. His works were quite interesting - See The Book of the Law & Magick Without Tears. However, due to the nature of secrecy within the "society" he was in, a lot of his work takes time to unravel and decipher. I actually tried some of these practices and it did give me a sense of "euphoria" - such as the Kabbalistic Cross ritual or Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram.

Then I moved on to the Qabbalah, following the lead of Magick. This then brought me to the Jewish Kabbalah, a study of the Torah. What really intrigued me was that while it was closely related to Christianity, they supported ideas of reincarnation (I do believe reincarnation was in early Christianity itself though). This particular concept intrigued me: The Kabbalah's Tree of Life and how it can be linked node to node to show a transition between four realms (World of Emanation, World of Creation, World of Formation and World of Action). See this diagram to get an idea. The lower few "nodes" on the Tree also correspond to the idea of Chakras on the human body (this with some labels and this too).

Then the problem with Qabbalah, which I was sure had a deeper understanding, is that most of the texts were kept within circles and missing pieces of the puzzle were not given. It was too cryptic. Following another lead in Magick, I went on to Hermeticism. This brought me to the following works: Initiation into Hermetics by Franz Bardon, The Emerald Tablet of Hermes, The Egyptian Book of the Dead, Corpus Hermeticum, etc. Sure, I learnt a lot, but I wasn't actually getting to the states that Franz Bardon had described.

Then I got into Theosophy, meaning "divine wisdom". One has to be careful in Theosophy because the original founder is Madame Helena P Blavatsky, and there were frauds such as Leadbeater and Annie Besant who claimed all sorts of things that ruined the original concepts presented in Blavatsky's books. I first picked up The Secret Doctrine and tried to go through it but it was TOO complicated for me to understand. It talked about Cosmogenesis and Anthropogenesis. The concepts of reincarnation inside were very complicated, such as Root-races and sorts. I used this website as a guide. A good introduction book was "The Ocean of Theosophy" by her good associate William Quan Judge. What I really found interesting about Blavatsky's material was particular in the book "The Voice of the Silence" where Higher and Lower kundalini was talked about (relationship between chakras, etc). Link is here.

This is when a curious twist brought me back to Buddhism. One guy I met on the web told me to get a copy of his master's works (who is quite unknown in the Western world). His name is Nan Huai-Jin. He was verified to be enlightened by several masters of varying schools and really is quite a genius as well as a polymath in many things. I got his books Tao and Longevity and he described strange meditation phenomena such as diseases coming out to the Tee, as well as things like lights, aches, sounds, etc. In his other book Working Towards Enlightenment, he talked about all the various states of Jhana. He also gave a commentary on the diamond sutra in Diamond Sutra Explained. According to the person I met and many other people who met him, they said that Master Nan's voice had a very strange quality that could sound like waterfalls. I don't know if it's true and all. But he was the one who helped me reconcile all of the various religions, like Taoism, Buddhism and Zen together.

Following his practice, I then used the Kasina meditation shared to me by another one of his students. (Note that I've never actually seen it in his works, but it is something that many of his students said he recommended.)

I would visualize white bones starting from the left toe and all the way up until the whole skeleton is lighted up and dazzling (This certainly reminds me of self-hypnosis). Then I would visualize "death" so that my flesh liquefies and I give away my flesh and internal organs to spiritual entities. I was to then have joy while giving my flesh and everything away. Strangely, I really felt joy while giving them away. It sounds weird but it really worked. By this time, I would have a skeleton left. I couldn't actually think or do anything since I was after-all, just a stack of bones. Then the instruction was to dissolve the bones completely so that it cannot be located in space.

By the time I reached the skull, I felt like I didn't have a certain location in space. I was... lost. Then it just came. The joyfulness suddenly exponentially surged from my heart and filled up my whole body. Instantly, it was as if light came down from on top. By this time I didn't really have the sense of a body already (or my body was too relaxed). The light washed over me and I just got sucked into this light. After a while of that brilliant joy, suddenly the joy seemed to become lesser. There wasn't much light here, but I felt a little dizzy sometimes. I felt quite a bit of calmness.

It was so strange. I remember I used to combine relaxation techniques with anapansati meditation a few years back and I accidentally got into the bright light stage. But even so, both didn't have much of that joy. Also, when I was a child, I think I did go into a meditative stage while staring out of the window in my dad's car where things looked a little luminous and intangible. But none of them equalled what I experienced with it.

My second and subsequent meditations with the same technique all consistently got me to the same stage. If I had mindfulness throughout the whole day, the moment I sat down, I would slip into that state (or even deeper state). It usually takes about ten to fifteen minutes I think. My meditation sessions vary from fifteen minutes all the way to an hour because I cannot really tell the time. Am I practising correctly? Should I try something else?

But the thing now is that I'm quite afraid of advancing further because I do have commitments to my parents and helping to fund my young brother's education and all. I'm always afraid that if I go too deep by accident, I might never return. I also hear of things such as people going insane when down in side-paths or people having problems.

I also haven't experienced a marital life, so I've been carefully considering whether to lock myself in marriage (sadly) or to pursue the full spiritual life when I've finished my commitments. This has been a huge dilemma to me.

One thing I'm also quite interested to know about is the concept of the Bodhisattva. I'm quite confused as many seem to advocate becoming an Arahant, which in some Mahayana literature states it as a side-path. I'm not sure how a Bodhisattva works?

Have a happy new year too,

Winston
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 03:10:22 PM by bodhimind »

Jhanananda

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2015, 02:23:31 AM »
Dear All,

I'm new to this forum and I'm really glad to have found it because many of my thoughts seemed to exactly match the information that I've read here. I'll start my meditation experiences.
Good on you mate, and welcome to the GWV.  I spent a few years in the "Darling Downs" of Toowoomba, and vacationing on the Gold Coast.
I'm currently a 23-year-old medical student in Australia and all my life since I was young, I've been thinking that everyone around me seemed to act a little like zombies - if not, puppets on strings attached to conditions. I don't know why, but I felt like the whole world seemed a little rigid of sorts, as if things were already set in motion and all the actors were playing out their own scripts.
That represents some serious insight that you must have been born with.
At one point I was deeply interested at the prospect of self-hypnosis. I was reading all the literature on how people could be placed into a trance and then suggested to do things. This got me thinking - the conscious mind that we think we all have really does not have that much of a control over what we do. It turns out that neuroscience research validated it later, saying that unconscious decisions are made far before a conscious decision can be reached.
My first observation of hypnosis was by a hypnotist doing a demonstration in Surfers Paradise.  I really was not fully impressed by his demonstration, because it seemed put-on.
I also then delved into courses that had these self-hypnosis tapes. It all started with the Silva Method. I managed to buy the tapes of the original course and at one point of the Alpha meditation (with the three fingers anchoring technique) tape, I grew mindful of my whole body pulsing. This suddenly gave way to a bright shining light. At this point I was a little afraid of the phenomena, so I withdrew. I realized that I couldn't get back that experience no matter how hard I tried after that.
Boy, what a coincidence I started with what was called in 1974 "Silva Mind Control."
Later on, I got into the wave of the "Law of Attraction" fad. I was thinking, "Could it be possible that our thoughts do create our reality?" I found it a little absurd when the movie The Secret claimed that every thought in a physical brain spiralled to exactly what you'd want. As I investigated further, I realized that it could be possible for the sub/unconscious mind to influence the health of the body and its attitude/habits. In a way, it did influence reality... but only the body, and reality? Certainly not to the point the movie claimed. I was quite dismissive at this point, until I stumbled on Magick.
Well that is the core of the New Age concept, which is also the core of the bible, which I have found is simply not true.
What I really found interesting about Blavatsky's material was particular in the book "The Voice of the Silence" where Higher and Lower kundalini was talked about (relationship between chakras, etc). Link is here.

This is when a curious twist brought me back to Buddhism. One guy I met on the web told me to get a copy of his master's works (who is quite unknown in the Western world). His name is Nan Huai-Jin. He was verified to be enlightened by several masters of varying schools and really is quite a genius as well as a polymath in many things. I got his books Tao and Longevity and he described strange meditation phenomena such as diseases coming out to the Tee, as well as things like lights, aches, sounds, etc. In his other book Working Towards Enlightenment, he talked about all the various states of Jhana. He also gave a commentary on the diamond sutra in Diamond Sutra Explained. According to the person I met and many other people who met him, they said that Master Nan's voice had a very strange quality that could sound like waterfalls. I don't know if it's true and all. But he was the one who helped me reconcile all of the various religions, like Taoism, Buddhism and Zen together.

Following his practice, I then used the Kasina meditation shared to me by another one of his students. (Note that I've never actually seen it in his works, but it is something that many of his students said he recommended.)

I would visualize white bones starting from the left toe and all the way up until the whole skeleton is lighted up and dazzling (This certainly reminds me of self-hypnosis). Then I would visualize "death" so that my flesh liquefies and I give away my flesh and internal organs to spiritual entities. I was to then have joy while giving my flesh and everything away. Strangely, I really felt joy while giving them away. It sounds weird but it really worked. By this time, I would have a skeleton left. I couldn't actually think or do anything since I was after-all, just a stack of bones. Then the instruction was to dissolve the bones completely so that it cannot be located in space.

By the time I reached the skull, I felt like I didn't have a certain location in space. I was... lost. Then it just came. The joyfulness suddenly exponentially surged from my heart and filled up my whole body. Instantly, it was as if light came down from on top. By this time I didn't really have the sense of a body already (or my body was too relaxed). The light washed over me and I just got sucked into this light. After a while of that brilliant joy, suddenly the joy seemed to become lesser. There wasn't much light here, but I felt a little dizzy sometimes. I felt quite a bit of calmness.

It was so strange. I remember I used to combine relaxation techniques with anapansati meditation a few years back and I accidentally got into the bright light stage. But even so, both didn't have much of that joy. Also, when I was a child, I think I did go into a meditative stage while staring out of the window in my dad's car where things looked a little luminous and intangible. But none of them equalled what I experienced with it.

My second and subsequent meditations with the same technique all consistently got me to the same stage. If I had mindfulness throughout the whole day, the moment I sat down, I would slip into that state (or even deeper state). It usually takes about ten to fifteen minutes I think. My meditation sessions vary from fifteen minutes all the way to an hour because I cannot really tell the time. Am I practising correctly? Should I try something else?
Well, guided meditations and hypnosis are not recommended because they tend to lead to submissiveness of the subject; however, they seem to have worked for you, and longer meditation periods tend to lead to deeper meditation experiences.
But the thing now is that I'm quite afraid of advancing further because I do have commitments to my parents and helping to fund my young brother's education and all. I'm always afraid that if I go too deep by accident, I might never return. I also hear of things such as people going insane when down in side-paths or people having problems.
We are all confronted with similar fears when we enter the deep meditation experience.  My only solution is to keep coming back, and get used to the deep meditation experience by dipping your toes in deeper each time.
I also haven't experienced a marital life, so I've been carefully considering whether to lock myself in marriage (sadly) or to pursue the full spiritual life when I've finished my commitments. This has been a huge dilemma to me.
If you are interested in enlightenment in this very lifetime, and you are not strongly drawn to sexuality, then forgoing the marital experience will benefit you.
One thing I'm also quite interested to know about is the concept of the Bodhisattva. I'm quite confused as many seem to advocate becoming an Arahant, which in some Mahayana literature states it as a side-path. I'm not sure how a Bodhisattva works?
This, sadly, is all Mahayanist BS, which proves Mahayanist Buddhism is a complete fraud, as Siddhartha Gautama was an Arahant. and so were his major disciples.
Have a happy new year too,

Winston
happy new year to you as well, and welcome to this forum, and tank-you for posting your most interesting messages.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2015, 04:41:53 PM »
Good on you mate, and welcome to the GWV.  I spent a few years in the "Darling Downs" of Toowoomba, and vacationing on the Gold Coast.
That's awesome, I haven't actually been down to Queensland yet but Gold Coast is a must-go. I hope you enjoyed your stay in the Land Down Under.

That represents some serious insight that you must have been born with.
I wasn't sure if it was an insight or whether I was just a little crazy in the head because everyone else just seemed to mind their own businesses. I have to say that at one point I thought myself as someone who had a mental disorder.

My first observation of hypnosis was by a hypnotist doing a demonstration in Surfers Paradise.  I really was not fully impressed by his demonstration, because it seemed put-on.
Stage hypnosis is quite different from therapy though. I'm not too sure about the validity of such studies but there are quite a few books out talking about how their subjects described past lives when placed under a deep trance, such as this book or this book. The themes are quite consistent though.

Boy, what a coincidence I started with what was called in 1974 "Silva Mind Control."
Indeed, what a coincidence. I was particularly interested in his claim that some of his students had ESP after following his methods.

Well that is the core of the New Age concept, which is also the core of the bible, which I have found is simply not true.
I believed it for a really long time, but now I believe more in the theory of a "fated" timeline. There is an Eastern divination method known as the Iron Plate Numerology which predicts exact times/dates of events happening. It was the only divination "mathematics" using algorithms based off the I-Ching. To date there is only one authentic reader and many, many frauds.

Some of the stories of Zen masters also had fortune tellers. One such story was really interesting. The Zen master, before he was enlightened was predicted to die within two years. After going to the mountains to dwell and meditate, he reached a state of enlightenment and his divined death did not happen. I'm not sure if you believe in these arts, but it does illustrate how meditation is somehow linked to these conditioned "future" events.

Well, guided meditations and hypnosis are not recommended because they tend to lead to submissiveness of the subject; however, they seem to have worked for you, and longer meditation periods tend to lead to deeper meditation experiences.
Do you mean guided as in self-guided? I don't actually use words or anything suggestive to have my experience. It is a variation I think, of Kasina meditation. I just searched the website and I found this page to be really illustrative! I can't believe I haven't actually seen that page before. I'll work on it from now on.

We are all confronted with similar fears when we enter the deep meditation experience.  My only solution is to keep coming back, and get used to the deep meditation experience by dipping your toes in deeper each time.
That's true... I felt that way when I first had the bright light experience. Or fractals. I find annihilation to be a really, really scary thing to face though. I often thought that I have relinquished attachment to the idea of a self, but it turns out that it is not that simple to have simply consciously decided that way.

If you are interested in enlightenment in this very lifetime, and you are not strongly drawn to sexuality, then forgoing the marital experience will benefit you.

I definitely hope of doing it. Unfortunately I'm already in debt with my medical school fees and I'd need to pay it back...

This, sadly, is all Mahayanist BS, which proves Mahayanist Buddhism is a complete fraud, as Siddhartha Gautama was an Arahant. and so were his major disciples.
I've always been suspicious of Mahayana and always relied on the original teachings to be the main basis of my learning. Sometimes the sutras do seem a little interesting though. What do you think of the idea of non-duality? It does seem like the main essence of the teachings as the "9th" jhana is "Neither non-perception nor perception", with that idea reflected in the Mahayana sutra (Diamond Sutra).

happy new year to you as well, and welcome to this forum, and thank-you for posting your most interesting messages.

Thank you for building this site, it is great to be here!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 11:39:16 PM by Jhanananda »

Jhanon

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2015, 05:50:01 PM »
We really need a voice or text chatroom. There is just too much good stuff to comment on here. And real-time discussion, again and again, has shown to be superior. I believe this is because when one human in jhana talks to another which is ready, jhana arises for them as well. And as long as the discussion is on dhamma, the states deepen.

In lieu of responding, I will say that I agree with Jhananda's responses.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 08:25:38 PM by Jhanon »

Jhanananda

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2015, 11:57:10 PM »
I've always been suspicious of Mahayana and always relied on the original teachings to be the main basis of my learning. Sometimes the sutras do seem a little interesting though. What do you think of the idea of non-duality? It does seem like the main essence of the teachings as the "9th" jhana is "Neither non-perception nor perception", with that idea reflected in the Mahayana sutra (Diamond Sutra).
The non-dual experience in meditation is clearly an experience of the 3rd jhana, and above.
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bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 07:00:15 PM »
I've been struggling with a surge in lust recently. I noticed that whenever I go celibate for a very long time, there is this sudden accumulation of sexual instinct waiting to go off. In mindfulness, I might catch that spark of lust that generates but sometimes it just causes bodily arousal, that emotion is set deep inside and i feel physically terrible. I might also feel my blood flow increasing towards my genital areas or lower bodily parts. I can feel my mental energy slowly being sucked towards the genital areas. Argh.

I've tried holding my breath in restraint since this allocates more blood flow to the vital organs like the heart and lungs and this works to a minimal extent. After holding pranayama, the blood seems to flow back. I find the lusts getting very intense, sometimes the body just goes off on its own upon a VERY short spark in my mind's intent.

I understand that the lust goes off in fourth dhyana, and I've been meditating but I seem to be fluctuating between the different jhanas. Sometimes I get to first, then jump to equanimity in third, then back again. It's very inconsistent. How do you suggest that I combat this messiness in Jhana progress? Do you do it systematically, such as in the sutras where the Buddha talks about the 5 masteries, etc?

Also, how do you combat sexual lust? I thought I got over lust when I never felt the urge over the past few months but it just suddenly kicked back in at full gear and I've been frequently meditating, I don't understand.

The Taoist explanation is probably due to the increase in my "chi", hence "vital energy" and also raising the possibility of sexual instinct. How would you explain it?

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 09:56:14 PM »
I can only answer your questions partially, since what you seem to be experiencing is beyond me.

This is what I do outside of meditation:

When I see, let's say, an image that is sexually provocative, I immediately place my attention on something else. If it starts to develop into a sexual fantasy, again, I just think of something else, but in addition to that, one could place that attention on any of the charisms. I my case, I pull back from whatever I'm doing and try to arouse bliss and calmness, and soon enough, the lustful thoughts disappear. It's a constant battle. I've gone for a nearly a whole month without being a naughty boy by practicing something similar to this.

The Buddha taught his disciples to contemplate the repulsive aspects of the human body. Another practice is to imagine corpses in various stages of decay -- in order to develop dispassion for the human body. The idea is to see the ugliness in what we think is beautiful. See DN 22 -- The Mahasatipatthana Sutta.

Lust is one of the Five Hindrances and one should practice Right Effort from the N8P in order to overcome it:

Right Effort

1) To prevent unwholesome states from arising: the Five Hindrances, the Ten Fetters/Defilements
2) To abandon unwholesome states that have arisen: the Five Hindrances, the Ten Fetters/Defilements
3) To arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen: serenity and insight, the Brahma-Viharas, the Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Noble Eightfold Path, etc. - especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment leading to jhana and equanimity.
4) To maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen: the above (also implies the cultivation of the four jhanas).
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 01:04:39 AM by Michel »

Jhanananda

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 12:39:58 AM »
I've been struggling with a surge in lust recently. I noticed that whenever I go celibate for a very long time, there is this sudden accumulation of sexual instinct waiting to go off. In mindfulness, I might catch that spark of lust that generates but sometimes it just causes bodily arousal, that emotion is set deep inside and i feel physically terrible. I might also feel my blood flow increasing towards my genital areas or lower bodily parts. I can feel my mental energy slowly being sucked towards the genital areas. Argh.
We all struggle with lust, because all organisms, and we are an organism, have 3 imperatives:
1] Secure subsistence.  If an organism does not immediately secure subsistence it will parish. 
2] Once subsistence is secured, then reproduction is necessary.  If an organism does not reproduce as quickly as possible then the species might go extinct.
3] Once subsistence and reproduction are secured, then all organisms must secure their subsistence and the product of their reproduction; thus fight or flight arises.
Thus, as we enter deep meditation states, then we will be presented with at least one, if not all of, these vital imperatives.  It is therefore necessary for the contemplative, who is intent upon cultivating deep meditations states, to learn to not be distracted by natural organic behavior.
I've tried holding my breath in restraint since this allocates more blood flow to the vital organs like the heart and lungs and this works to a minimal extent. After holding pranayama, the blood seems to flow back. I find the lusts getting very intense, sometimes the body just goes off on its own upon a VERY short spark in my mind's intent.
If it works, then use it.
I understand that the lust goes off in fourth dhyana, and I've been meditating but I seem to be fluctuating between the different jhanas. Sometimes I get to first, then jump to equanimity in third, then back again. It's very inconsistent. How do you suggest that I combat this messiness in Jhana progress? Do you do it systematically, such as in the sutras where the Buddha talks about the 5 masteries, etc?
Your mind will be a yoyo until you develop equanimity.
Also, how do you combat sexual lust? I thought I got over lust when I never felt the urge over the past few months but it just suddenly kicked back in at full gear and I've been frequently meditating, I don't understand.
Just keep coming back to deep meditation.  Eventually the instinctual behavior will subside.
The Taoist explanation is probably due to the increase in my "chi", hence "vital energy" and also raising the possibility of sexual instinct. How would you explain it?
That is one way to describe it.
I can only answer your questions partially, since what you seem to be experiencing is beyond me.

This is what I do outside of meditation:

When I see, let's say, an image that is sexually provocative, I immediately place my attention on something else. If it starts to develop into a sexual fantasy, again, I just think of something else, but in addition to that, one could place that attention on any of the charisms. I my case, I pull back from whatever I'm doing and try to arouse bliss and calmness, and soon enough, the lustful thoughts disappear. It's a constant battle. I've gone for a nearly a whole month without being a naughty boy by practicing something similar to this.

The Buddha taught his disciples to contemplate the repulsive aspects of the human body. Another practice is to imagine corpses in various stages of decay -- in order to develop dispassion for the human body. The idea is to see the ugliness in what we think is beautiful. See DN 22 -- The Mahasatipatthana Sutta.

Lust is one of the Five Hindrances and one should practice Right Effort from the N8P in order to overcome it:

Right Effort

1) To prevent unwholesome states from arising: the Five Hindrances, the Ten Fetters/Defilements
2) To abandon unwholesome states that have arisen: the Five Hindrances, the Ten Fetters/Defilements
3) To arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen: serenity and insight, the Brahma-Viharas, the Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Noble Eightfold Path, etc. - especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment leading to jhana and equanimity.
4) To maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen: the above (also implies the cultivation of the four jhanas).

This is another way to deal with instinctual behavior.  Thank-you, Michel.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 01:05:16 AM by Michel »
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bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2015, 08:40:04 AM »
I can only answer your questions partially, since what you seem to be experiencing is beyond me.

This is what I do outside of meditation:

When I see, let's say, an image that is sexually provocative, I immediately place my attention on something else. If it starts to develop into a sexual fantasy, again, I just think of something else, but in addition to that, one could place that attention on any of the charisms. I my case, I pull back from whatever I'm doing and try to arouse bliss and calmness, and soon enough, the lustful thoughts disappear. It's a constant battle. I've gone for a nearly a whole month without being a naughty boy by practicing something similar to this.

The Buddha taught his disciples to contemplate the repulsive aspects of the human body. Another practice is to imagine corpses in various stages of decay -- in order to develop dispassion for the human body. The idea is to see the ugliness in what we think is beautiful. See DN 22 -- The Mahasatipatthana Sutta.

Lust is one of the Five Hindrances and one should practice Right Effort from the N8P in order to overcome it:

Right Effort

1) To prevent unwholesome states from arising: the Five Hindrances, the Ten Fetters/Defilements
2) To abandon unwholesome states that have arisen: the Five Hindrances, the Ten Fetters/Defilements
3) To arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen: serenity and insight, the Brahma-Viharas, the Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Noble Eightfold Path, etc. - especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment leading to jhana and equanimity.
4) To maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen: the above (also implies the cultivation of the four jhanas).

Thank you for this. It's strange because I've also tried meditating on the foulness of the body, decaying, rotting, swelling, disfiguration, etc... I think I should probably hold those thoughts in my mind and condition them to any person I see on the street, including myself and contemplate on the foulness of the physical body.

We all struggle with lust, because all organisms, and we are an organism, have 3 imperatives:
1] Secure subsistence.  If an organism does not immediately secure subsistence it will parish. 
2] Once subsistence is secured, then reproduction is necessary.  If an organism does not reproduce as quickly as possible then the species might go extinct.
3] Once subsistence and reproduction are secured, then all organisms must secure their subsistence and the product of their reproduction; thus fight or flight arises.
Thus, as we enter deep meditation states, then we will be presented with at least one, if not all of, these vital imperatives.  It is therefore necessary for the contemplative, who is intent upon cultivating deep meditations states, to learn to not be distracted by natural organic behavior.

Your mind will be a yoyo until you develop equanimity.
Sometimes they seem to be a "vacuum" and they don't go away as easily despite me going into meditation. I feel like my energy is being sucked downwards. Perhaps some subconscious part of me is still engaged in lustful thought, I guess it's something I will need to keep working on, sigh.

I wonder, does lust eventually even off or disappear? Or is it always there, just that with a trained mind, it allows the shutting off of these primal urges?

Jhanananda

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2015, 12:02:32 PM »
When we can maintain our awareness upon the charisms, then there is no room for the fetters/hindrances/sins to grab a hold.  So, keep coming back.  Keep going deeper.  Know that you will fail, time and again, but if you keep coming back, then one day you will be free, free, free of the fetters/hindrances/sins.
There is no progress without discipline.

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Michel

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2015, 09:39:37 PM »
This sutta is right up the alley to our discussion and is worthy of consideration to understand and overcome sensual desire.

Quote from: AN 4.14 Restraint - trans. Bodhi

“1Bhikkhus, there are these four strivings. What four? Striving by restraint, striving by abandonment, striving by development, and striving by protection.

2(1) “And what, bhikkhus, is striving by restraint? Here, having seen a form with the eye, a bhikkhu does not grasp its marks and features. Since, if he left the eye faculty unrestrained, bad unwholesome states of longing and dejection might invade him, he practices restraint over it, he guards the eye faculty, he undertakes the restraint of the eye faculty. Having heard a sound with the ear … Having smelled an odor with the nose … Having tasted a taste with the tongue … Having felt a tactile object with the body … Having cognized a mental phenomenon with the mind, a bhikkhu does not grasp its marks and features. Since, if he left the mind faculty unrestrained, bad unwholesome states of longing and dejection might invade him, he practices restraint over it, he guards the mind faculty, he undertakes the restraint of the mind faculty. This is called striving by restraint.

3(2) “And what is striving by abandonment? Here, a bhikkhu does not tolerate an arisen sensual thought; he abandons it, dispels it, terminates it, and obliterates it. He does not tolerate an arisen thought of ill will … an arisen thought of harming … bad unwholesome states whenever they arise; he abandons them, dispels them, terminates them, and obliterates them. This is called striving by abandonment.

4(3) “And what is striving by development? Here, a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of mindfulness, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. He develops the enlightenment factor of discrimination of phenomena … the enlightenment factor of energy … the enlightenment factor of rapture … the enlightenment factor of tranquility … the enlightenment factor of concentration … the enlightenment factor of equanimity, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. This is called striving by development. an.ii.17

5(4) “And what is striving by protection? Here, a bhikkhu protects an arisen excellent object of concentration: the perception of a skeleton, the perception of a worm-infested corpse, the perception of a livid corpse, the perception of a festering corpse, the perception of a fissured corpse, the perception of a bloated corpse. This is called striving by protection.
“These, bhikkhus, are the four kinds of striving.”

6Restraint and abandonment,
development and protection:
these four strivings were taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.
By these means an ardent bhikkhu here
can attain the destruction of suffering.

bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2015, 03:11:02 PM »
When we can maintain our awareness upon the charisms, then there is no room for the fetters/hindrances/sins to grab a hold.  So, keep coming back.  Keep going deeper.  Know that you will fail, time and again, but if you keep coming back, then one day you will be free, free, free of the fetters/hindrances/sins.

Thank you for this, I will definitely strive on.

This sutta is right up the alley to our discussion and is worthy of consideration to understand and overcome sensual desire.

Thank you for the sutta, I will study it until I reach it with wisdom.

bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2015, 10:45:26 AM »
Just to add a really strange encounter...

I'm not sure if it's really a dream but it is not the first time I had such a strange lustful dream. It always ended up with me ejaculating for real when I wake up. I find that lust is a huge problem when I'm asleep.

My encounter was a little half-lucid. I found myself together with a humanoid looking lady (I didn't actually see her as female but felt her as feminine energy) and then there was just sudden lust and I ended up in a position where I was just about to have sex.

The pleasure was so intense that suddenly my mindfulness habit kicked in and I realized what I was doing. Immediately, my lucidity shot up and I forced myself to return. Sure enough, my physical body was at that point of release. I immediately got up from bed and started meditating to quell the passion emotion.

It's not the first time, but it's the first time I've managed to stop this kind of lust encounter before the point of ejaculation. I'm not sure what this means, but it felt "hyper-real". Maybe it's just a dream, but I just wanted to write that I've actually managed to keep mindfulness while I was nearly unconscious in my dream.

Today, I got up and did body mindfulness and I found that I reached first Jhana extremely quickly. There was a sensation I didn't really notice before... The pleasure itself was a little "burning" as if something was burning within, but not a bad kind of burn, but a pleasurable burn. I have no idea if that means anything but then I was able to reach equanimity. Today was one of my better meditation sessions, strangely.

Also, I found that I always experience these kind of things especially when I've gotten into a pretty deep state of meditation the day before. Then the moment I release my semen, the progress of my meditation backtracks.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 10:48:03 AM by bodhimind »

Sam Lim

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2015, 11:12:59 AM »
It's normal for young people to have wet dreams. If possible try to channel that energy into meditation and it would help tremendously.

If the sexual activeness is affecting you, take less meat and more vegetables. More of the squash and melon type would help. Hope it helps.

bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2015, 11:23:36 AM »
It's normal for young people to have wet dreams. If possible try to channel that energy into meditation and it would help tremendously.

If the sexual activeness is affecting you, take less meat and more vegetables. More of the squash and melon type would help. Hope it helps.

How do you channel that to meditation? Do you mean like sexual tantra or like sex transmutation and all?

Yeah I'm a real meat eater and have been trying to incorporate more vegetables into my diet and make a slow switch.