Author Topic: Winston's Meditation Case Histories  (Read 41721 times)

Jhanananda

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2015, 01:05:26 PM »
Your oxygen requirement must have really plunged, I can't imagine waking up with someone pumping my ribcage lol! I guess that says that at least in fourth or beyond, external respiration stops or becomes shallow enough.
Yes, the oxygen requirement of someone in deep meditation seems to decline; however, until we have actually research data, we cannot conclude that the breath stops at any time during deep meditation.  It just just slow, and become shallow.

Yes, it was a big shock to be dragged back from the heavenly domains by someone straddling my torso and giving my chest deep compressions, but it is the stuffy for comedy.
A new thing I realized...

When meditating yesterday, I realized that if I am already experiencing the auditory charism, it takes effort to go back into the tingling bliss of the first and second jhana (was wondering if going from first to second then to third could help me go into deeper states). But it seemed as if I could experience full body tingling this time, not just the ear.
If it takes effort to do anything with your awareness during meditation, then it should be avoided.  Also, going from 2nd jhana to 3rd, is going deeper.  Just allow yourself to develop along natural lines, and see where deep meditation takes you.  We are just here to answer questions, not to direct your experience.

This time I took some time to explore the visual charism and under my eyelids there were lights flashing green, purple, orange, white, as if it were some disco ball lol. I've never really realized it because I always kept my eyes closed and turned my awareness inwards into my mind.
There is no reason to activate the mind in investigating the phenomena of deep meditation; however, when depth in meditation occurs, we are often presented with heightened awareness of the experience, which tends to leave a profound impression upon us.

The spherical light form is common in deep meditation.  In Pali Buddhism it is referred to as a "kasina."  Click the link for more info.
A few memories came into my mind yesterday after the session.

I realized that when I was younger, I would unknowingly go into concentration practice. I remember when I was in a German class, when I finished my exam, I stared at this pin in a noticeboard, and then I realized I could go into an extremely hyper-focused mode, where everything around started to become luminous, almost to the point of obscuring my vision, leaving just the pin there. At that point of time, I was a quite rigorously scientific person, so I dismissed it as excessive activation of the photoreceptors in the eyeballs. The pin that I was focusing on disappeared, that was why I thought of it that way. But the point was, this wasn't the only time. I kept doing it again and again, focusing on random things in the car, in the park, in school, etc.
Spacing out in class is common for the proto-contemplative, and often produces our first experiences of deep meditation, which tends to direct us into the contemplative, and even mystical, life.

I also wondered why I haven't experienced a really drastic "dark night of the soul", then I realized that when I was young, I DID have a period of such depression. I believe I was about five years old, and I fell into a huge depression, saying that everything in the world was just redundant and people playing in their own sandboxes. Economies, mathematics and even the concept of money were just stories they've created to entertain themselves and distract themselves from who they are.

Being a kid, I was supposed to be addicted to television, but then after that period I didn't want to watch anything to do with television. I sort of realized, as if I was clinging on to lights appearing in an orderly fashion from a digital box and found it so redundant. All I wanted was to "space out", but in a way where I could look inwards. This was when I started seeing visions of this extremely bright point of light. To this date, I still can't figure out what it is.
Many of us who become mystics later in life have early insights, and naturally fall into meditation practices that go deep, such as you described above.  The spiritual crises come at different times to us, so do not think that you are completely done with it.  It will come when you are presented with a need to make a deep change in your life.  Essentially I found there is a spiritual crisis following the attainment of each stage of depth in meditation.

Then I remember recently when I had a really bad sleep, I woke up to this vision under my eyelids. It was similar to this...



Except it was almost like it was a kaleidoscope. The words kept radiating out from the center. I tried to read the words and it seemed like they were ... Sanskrit maybe? Perhaps I should take up the language of Sanskrit? I've NEVER seen this language in my life before, so it can't be memory from this lifetime at least. My inner guess was that it was Sanskrit, since it looked a little squiggly, but I may be wrong.

PS: I was trying to find the name of this thing so I could find a picture of it, and it was only yesterday when I went to another cousin's house that I saw a picture of this "mantra" arranged in this manner. Kind of coincidental. So I saw the word "mantra" below it and then managed to google an example of it.
The image is known in Sanskrit Hinduism/Buddhism as a "mandala."  I too had visions of mandalas and Sanskrit writing at various points in my youth; however, I traveled through Asia early in my teens, so I was exposed to quite a bit of Asian religious paraphernalia at a fairly early age.  To me, seeing religious paraphernalia in a vision prior to exposure is evidence of reincarnation.
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bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2015, 05:12:43 AM »
Yes, it was a big shock to be dragged back from the heavenly domains by someone straddling my torso and giving my chest deep compressions, but it is the stuffy for comedy.
That is awesome comedy material hahaha.

If it takes effort to do anything with your awareness during meditation, then it should be avoided.  Also, going from 2nd jhana to 3rd, is going deeper.  Just allow yourself to develop along natural lines, and see where deep meditation takes you.  We are just here to answer questions, not to direct your experience.
Thank you, I understand.

Many of us who become mystics later in life have early insights, and naturally fall into meditation practices that go deep, such as you described above.  The spiritual crises come at different times to us, so do not think that you are completely done with it.  It will come when you are presented with a need to make a deep change in your life.  Essentially I found there is a spiritual crisis following the attainment of each stage of depth in meditation.
I do believe that the poor sleep I am getting, etc is part of the fourth stage you described in the Dark Night of the Soul video series. It is quite a scary feeling and I feel as if I'm subconsciously trying to shun it. Maybe that's why I'm stuck in the third jhana. I've been dipping my toe into the cold water for a lot of times and I know that my fear has reduced a lot from previously, but there's just this part of me that seems to be avoiding the experience, a little trauma of sorts.

The image is known in Sanskrit Hinduism/Buddhism as a "mandala."  I too had visions of mandalas and Sanskrit writing at various points in my youth; however, I traveled through Asia early in my teens, so I was exposed to quite a bit of Asian religious paraphernalia at a fairly early age.  To me, seeing religious paraphernalia in a vision prior to exposure is evidence of reincarnation.
I thought so that way as well... Perhaps I lived a past-life where I was exposed to this mandala and Sanskrit. I've never seen it too. Also, I found that when I was young, I had a few innate skills, such as being able to draw vivid pictures with a pencil that was "way out of my league" as the other children were drawing stick-men and I was drawing full caricatures. Another skill was being able to play the piano. It was as if I had this innate skill that might have been memory from a past life. I do wonder if muscle memory can be passed down, because it seems like a really strange thing since the body itself should be different. I seemed to have this affinity with creative arts as well. I can't help but think that yes, reincarnation is real.

Jhanananda

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2015, 12:32:58 PM »
I do believe that the poor sleep I am getting, etc is part of the fourth stage you described in the Dark Night of the Soul video series. It is quite a scary feeling and I feel as if I'm subconsciously trying to shun it. Maybe that's why I'm stuck in the third jhana. I've been dipping my toe into the cold water for a lot of times and I know that my fear has reduced a lot from previously, but there's just this part of me that seems to be avoiding the experience, a little trauma of sorts.
Yes, I agree that your description sounds very much like you have hit a barrier that you cannot pass at this time; however, you are likely to pass it sometime in the future, if you maintain your contemplative life at or above your present level.
I thought so that way as well... Perhaps I lived a past-life where I was exposed to this mandala and Sanskrit. I've never seen it too. Also, I found that when I was young, I had a few innate skills, such as being able to draw vivid pictures with a pencil that was "way out of my league" as the other children were drawing stick-men and I was drawing full caricatures. Another skill was being able to play the piano. It was as if I had this innate skill that might have been memory from a past life. I do wonder if muscle memory can be passed down, because it seems like a really strange thing since the body itself should be different. I seemed to have this affinity with creative arts as well. I can't help but think that yes, reincarnation is real.
You sound like a polymath.  Do you have a genius IQ?
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bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2015, 02:21:25 PM »
You sound like a polymath.  Do you have a genius IQ?

I'm not sure if it constitutes a genius IQ but my WAIS score is about 145. Scored only 140 for a Raven's Progressive Matrices Test, I guess my fluid intelligence suffers a little. I haven't tried Cattell, other standards, etc.

I guess I do like studying a lot of different subjects and linking all of their principles together. Maybe that qualifies me as a polymath haha
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 02:23:25 PM by bodhimind »

Jhanananda

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2015, 02:56:34 PM »
Well, from what I understand a score of 145 on either the WAIS or the Stanford-Binet Test is considered genius.  I too have scored 145 on every IQ test that I have taken over the years.  I do not happen to know what the test systems were that I took, but I score 145 as well.
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bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2015, 07:54:21 AM »
Well, from what I understand a score of 145 on either the WAIS or the Stanford-Binet Test is considered genius.  I too have scored 145 on every IQ test that I have taken over the years.  I do not happen to know what the test systems were that I took, but I score 145 as well.

From this source, it would seem so. I always read the education level correlation instead and knew myself to be able to read a M.D., but never realized I would be in the genius range. That's a nice new thing to know lol

Do you think one's intelligence is somehow related to intuition and receptivity to wisdom? I remember hearing about this mathematician genius who intuitively solved algorithms without even going through logical processes. Perhaps genius is related to connecting to inspiration?

---

I tried to do breath meditation yesterday, and it seemed like I couldn't enter third jhana yesterday. Tried to switch to the physical tingle or the ringing sound but it was so subtle that I couldn't hold on to it. Was pretty sure i dipped into second jhana for a while.

I guess I need to switch back to the body mindfulness instead, because  I find that it gives me a more consistent experience of leading into the jhanas. I really wanted to try to replicate it with my breath meditation though. I figured that any meditation object would do as long as it took me to the one-pointedness in first jhana, but I guess it didn't work out.

Will update if I get any progress in my later sessions.

Jhanananda

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2015, 02:36:52 PM »
From this source, it would seem so. I always read the education level correlation instead and knew myself to be able to read a M.D., but never realized I would be in the genius range. That's a nice new thing to know lol

Do you think one's intelligence is somehow related to intuition and receptivity to wisdom? I remember hearing about this mathematician genius who intuitively solved algorithms without even going through logical processes. Perhaps genius is related to connecting to inspiration?
That is how it works for me.  So, it might work for you that way.  My father had a high IQ, but he was not very intuitive.
I tried to do breath meditation yesterday, and it seemed like I couldn't enter third jhana yesterday. Tried to switch to the physical tingle or the ringing sound but it was so subtle that I couldn't hold on to it. Was pretty sure i dipped into second jhana for a while.

I guess I need to switch back to the body mindfulness instead, because  I find that it gives me a more consistent experience of leading into the jhanas. I really wanted to try to replicate it with my breath meditation though. I figured that any meditation object would do as long as it took me to the one-pointedness in first jhana, but I guess it didn't work out.

Will update if I get any progress in my later sessions.
Jhana attainment every time is not guaranteed.  And, not everyone gets there the same way.  So learn what works for you, and stick to it.
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bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2015, 10:31:10 AM »
Just wanted to confirm that I'm doing things right and not missing out anything.

1. I focus on a meditation object (breath, body, auditory charism, tingling).

2. At this point, my vision becomes bright and there is some form of inner light. (Probably the visual charism.)

3. Carrying on, the physical tingling unfolds throughout the whole body. Sometimes it does not go throughout the body and just localized at the head or chest, or places with thin skin like the soles or fingers.

4. I experience intense itching throughout the body. There is still a shallow breath going on.

5. Taking my focus away from the body as much as I can, I shift into the internal mental tingling. I feel a slightly different kind of mental tingling.

6. I shift my focus so it rests solely on the tinnitus-like sound. (Do I need to continue feeling the mental tingling instead?)

7. I slide back down into the itchy phase then move back up to the mental tingling. This goes on for quite a while.

Is this the way it is normally done? I'm no longer tensing up when I bring soft focus towards the sound, and I'm trying to ride it out. I sometimes get into this place full of light such that I don't feel the body, but this lasts for a few seconds, then I'm back down again. Is there a way I can improve this, or something I should look out for? It feels like I'm circling around the same thing for the past week.

Jhanananda

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2015, 01:51:27 PM »
It sounds like you are doing very well, but when we find our awareness oscillating up and down is when we are not well established.  So, keep practicing, eventually you will slide right through the itchy phase into a well established equanimity, then you will just keep drifting deeper from there.  Good work.
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Jhanon

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #69 on: February 18, 2015, 12:46:03 PM »
Bodhi, I find myself here as it is the last place dreaming with the unconsciousness cloud has been discussed.

"Dreaming within the collective unconscious is like being chased in the Matrix by "Agents." Whenever I fail to restitate (meditate deep enough then enter sleep), I always end up waking myself less than an hour into my sleep cuz some whacko's unconsciousness is messing with people.

Then I have to sit up and meditate to sleep so I can enjoy more accommodating destinations. It's not like I'm unwilling to do my part. I come back to the collective unconscious about an hour before I wake to help who I can. I have some interesting recent experiences of this."

I recorded this this morning. It's the first time I've had to wake myself in what seems to be a while. Trust me--I had it coming. I was heedless yesterday and didn't formally meditate when "guided" to. I felt you would find it helpful. It aligns with what has been said to you on this same thread.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 12:55:08 PM by Jhanon »

Jhanon

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2015, 02:48:48 PM »
Just wanted to confirm that I'm doing things right and not missing out anything.

1. I focus on a meditation object (breath, body, auditory charism, tingling).

2. At this point, my vision becomes bright and there is some form of inner light. (Probably the visual charism.)

3. Carrying on, the physical tingling unfolds throughout the whole body. Sometimes it does not go throughout the body and just localized at the head or chest, or places with thin skin like the soles or fingers.

4. I experience intense itching throughout the body. There is still a shallow breath going on.

5. Taking my focus away from the body as much as I can, I shift into the internal mental tingling. I feel a slightly different kind of mental tingling.

6. I shift my focus so it rests solely on the tinnitus-like sound. (Do I need to continue feeling the mental tingling instead?)

7. I slide back down into the itchy phase then move back up to the mental tingling. This goes on for quite a while.

Is this the way it is normally done? I'm no longer tensing up when I bring soft focus towards the sound, and I'm trying to ride it out. I sometimes get into this place full of light such that I don't feel the body, but this lasts for a few seconds, then I'm back down again. Is there a way I can improve this, or something I should look out for? It feels like I'm circling around the same thing for the past week.

In my experience, i first learned how to absorb into at least second Jhana every time I sat for meditation. That means simply placing your awareness in your body until a pleasant sensation is noticed. Then you STAY with that charism/nimitta until the second jhana, where there is no longer any effort required to stay absorbed.

Now this next part took me some time to realize. But it's possible to meditate deeply and yet make painfully slow progress in mastering jhana. This led to aversion to jhana, because jhana became just "a pleasant rest" for me--even though I was accessing third-fifth samadhi.

This was my experience for most of a year after joining this forum. There was an over-commitment to jhana, and in the process, I was suppressing other factors of enlightenment--namely investigation/insight. Sure, they were still there, but far more suppressed than absorption.

Seems like it's a package deal, right? Yeah, it is. But what is "mastering jhana?" In my experience, it's learning to balance and utilize all the factors of enlightenment while in jhana. But so for, it's mainly been very beneficial for me to absorb and let the intuition/insight do it's investigations.

So, having gotten to second jhana, I then let go, leaving my PERIPHERY awareness to intuitively scan the experience. Since your primary consciousness is still absorbed in the "constant" charism which got you to second jhana, then a marriage happens.

The intuition is investigating the experience with the periphery awareness while the primary consciousness enjoys the pleasure of the main charism. The intuition reveals more about jhana  with the fuel of the primary consciousness.

Gradually, this leads to the primary consciousness expanding. So that soon, when you sit down to meditate, you are aware of not just the tingling in your hands--but an expanded body of charisms/Nimitta. Additionally, I experiences tremendously boosted courage and confidence, thus allowing me to access far more "full" experiences.

I don't know how much wellbeing  this information will lead you to. I'm essentially trying to succinctly reveal the main stages I've gone through while learning to master jhana. Keep in mind I do not consider myself a jhana master, but that may also be why this could be helpful.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 02:50:30 PM by Jhanon »

bodhimind

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2015, 05:21:08 PM »
Bodhi, I find myself here as it is the last place dreaming with the unconsciousness cloud has been discussed.

"Dreaming within the collective unconscious is like being chased in the Matrix by "Agents." Whenever I fail to restitate (meditate deep enough then enter sleep), I always end up waking myself less than an hour into my sleep cuz some whacko's unconsciousness is messing with people.

Then I have to sit up and meditate to sleep so I can enjoy more accommodating destinations. It's not like I'm unwilling to do my part. I come back to the collective unconscious about an hour before I wake to help who I can. I have some interesting recent experiences of this."

I recorded this this morning. It's the first time I've had to wake myself in what seems to be a while. Trust me--I had it coming. I was heedless yesterday and didn't formally meditate when "guided" to. I felt you would find it helpful. It aligns with what has been said to you on this same thread.

Thank you for posting this, it does shed some light on how it works.

In my experience, i first learned how to absorb into at least second Jhana every time I sat for meditation. That means simply placing your awareness in your body until a pleasant sensation is noticed. Then you STAY with that charism/nimitta until the second jhana, where there is no longer any effort required to stay absorbed.
I've found that to be the case in the past as well, thank you for the reminder because I've forgotten about that.

Now this next part took me some time to realize. But it's possible to meditate deeply and yet make painfully slow progress in mastering jhana. This led to aversion to jhana, because jhana became just "a pleasant rest" for me--even though I was accessing third-fifth samadhi.

This was my experience for most of a year after joining this forum. There was an over-commitment to jhana, and in the process, I was suppressing other factors of enlightenment--namely investigation/insight. Sure, they were still there, but far more suppressed than absorption.

Seems like it's a package deal, right? Yeah, it is. But what is "mastering jhana?" In my experience, it's learning to balance and utilize all the factors of enlightenment while in jhana. But so for, it's mainly been very beneficial for me to absorb and let the intuition/insight do it's investigations.
Thank you for the insight here, it seems to bear quite a bit of experiential insight.

So, having gotten to second jhana, I then let go, leaving my PERIPHERY awareness to intuitively scan the experience. Since your primary consciousness is still absorbed in the "constant" charism which got you to second jhana, then a marriage happens.

The intuition is investigating the experience with the periphery awareness while the primary consciousness enjoys the pleasure of the main charism. The intuition reveals more about jhana  with the fuel of the primary consciousness.

Gradually, this leads to the primary consciousness expanding. So that soon, when you sit down to meditate, you are aware of not just the tingling in your hands--but an expanded body of charisms/Nimitta. Additionally, I experiences tremendously boosted courage and confidence, thus allowing me to access far more "full" experiences.

I don't know how much wellbeing  this information will lead you to. I'm essentially trying to succinctly reveal the main stages I've gone through while learning to master jhana. Keep in mind I do not consider myself a jhana master, but that may also be why this could be helpful.
Hmm, I'm not very sure by what you mean by the "primary" consciousness or periphery awareness. Do you mean that discriminatory or knowing "essence" at the back of the mind watching the rest of the sensations and experiences float up? Or the consciousness that is processing the experiences and classifying them as pleasurable/non-pleasurable/neutral?

Hmm, does this mean that the intuition itself is somewhat... together with the awareness? Well, while in the foreground where the consciousness seems to be functioning at the experiential level, etc.

Did I understand it wrongly? Haha, perhaps I'm not at a deep enough insight level to fully comprehend as of yet..

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2015, 06:21:25 PM »
I don't have the language for it yet. So I feel it is my fault. I think the main point is finding ways to meditate that thoroughly resonate with your "archetype." Which you are learning to do.

The itching/feeling the subtlest physical sounds shockwave through my body/ and other Hypersensitivities don't bother me anymore. How I would put in words is that the way in which I meditate and experience absorption is so resonant to my innate affinities, that the Hypersensitivities  just pass right through me. I'm too committed and enthralled by the insight the intuition is digging up.

Maybe that's broadly called "equanimity."

The awareness which is cataloging and labeling--as you put it--doesn't really do that anymore in my case. It has a job to do, and it loves it's job. So while it is the same background awareness, it's been re-programmed to dig for insight, allowing the primary consciousness to simply experience the experience as it arises.

Once it began doing this, the itching and shock waving became pleasanr. Like little jolts of ecstatic energy. Jhananda has stated elsewhere that eventually one comes to enjoy the hypersensitivity. This is my attempt to explain how it occurred for me--as we appear to be of similar archetypes.

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2015, 07:01:16 PM »
Then I remember recently when I had a really bad sleep, I woke up to this vision under my eyelids. It was similar to this...



Except it was almost like it was a kaleidoscope. The words kept radiating out from the center. I tried to read the words and it seemed like they were ... Sanskrit maybe? Perhaps I should take up the language of Sanskrit? I've NEVER seen this language in my life before, so it can't be memory from this lifetime at least. My inner guess was that it was Sanskrit, since it looked a little squiggly, but I may be wrong.

PS: I was trying to find the name of this thing so I could find a picture of it, and it was only yesterday when I went to another cousin's house that I saw a picture of this "mantra" arranged in this manner. Kind of coincidental. So I saw the word "mantra" below it and then managed to google an example of it.

Interesting. I remember having a lucid dream last year where my whole field of vision had this strange language floating around , similar to this. There were all these mathematical formulas too.

I have heard this happens to lots of people, with tribal paintings and symbols from different cultures.  Is it past lives or did I see it at some point in my life?   ....who knows.

jay.validus

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Re: Winston's Meditation Case Histories
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2015, 07:14:11 PM »
The awareness which is cataloging and labeling--as you put it--doesn't really do that anymore in my case. It has a job to do, and it loves it's job. So while it is the same background awareness, it's been re-programmed to dig for insight, allowing the primary consciousness to simply experience the experience as it arises.

Cool. It is interesting to see how the mind is split, and there are many different parts for many different purposes (too keep it simple, we could say the five aggregates, but we know there are many more).  All the hindrances and fetters I consider minds/voices, each with their own perspective and purpose. The front runner, all the senses, each jhanas I would considered their own mind, and more We just with between them. 

As well, I have noticed there are many different "general personalities" which uses the totality of the mind in its own way.  For example, the kid and adult version of you.  Even that I think is too simplistic.  I see even the voices, say of greed, will speak to the "general personalities" in the same way the GP's will speak to each other or over top of the smaller voices.

But that is making me sound a little too crazy. I am grounded to who I am, whatever that is.