Thank-you, Dr. Krepts, for contributing another interesting thread. Since we already have a section on Sufism, I then moved your valuable contribution there, so that it can be more easily found by those who are interested in understanding Sufism.
I will try to respond to some comments by Jeffrey and Michel about Sufism.The real Sufis I know of (Jellalluddin Rumi,Ibn al Arabi,Abdul Qadir Jilani and Hassan as-Shadhili) were all pious Muslims as well as contemplatives.They are the founders of some of the most important Sufi tariqat (orders). So Sufism is both devotional, in the sense of practicing the outward religion, and contemplative in the sense of practicing various forms of meditation. At this point probably the best known form of Sufi meditation is that of Rumi's Whirling Dervishes -a mediatation in movement.
Thank-you for contributing your thoughts on key Sufi personalities. I would agree that most of these Sufi mystics were characterized by devotional characteristics; however, Ibn al Arabi seemed to me more intellectual and philosophical, than devotional. Arguably, the mystics of every religion who make it into the record are likely to have been characterized by devotion, or otherwise they would likely be demonized and possibly martyred.
My personal experience has rather been something like Japa or Mantra Yoga in which we repeat the name of God in Arabic,Allah,coordinated with the breath and awareness- so it is not that far from vipassana or Sati practice. I have meditated in that way for many years now.
I agree that tying a mantra to the breath is very much like the ananpana-sati methodology. I did much the same thing throughout the 80s. However, by 1990 I found it an obstacle to deeper meditation, and found it very difficult to eradicate the mantra from my breath after 10 years of practice.
I do feel however that the Buddhists have mapped out the path in a more detailed and sophisticated way and that is what I am hoping to learn from Jeffrey and his followers. I was very happy with our initial meeting and intend to put into practice many of Jeffrey's suggestions.However,since the path is so individual and even unpredictable, to a great extent, I am obliged to keep an open mind as to what will work best for me.
I only offer suggestions, and expect those who are interested in what I offer to make it their own by fitting it into what works for them. In fact the most common criticism that I find expressed here is I do not offer a technique.
I find people tend to
reify their meditation technique; and I know that the technique has to be dumped to make it to the 2nd stage of deep meditation. Also, those who come here tend to have already developed a meditation methodology that is paying off for them. They are just looking for guidance through the 8 stages of deep meditation.
As an example of this unpredictability,my three clearest experiences of Divine Consciousness were 1)on the hot seat with an atheistic Gestalt Therapist,2) with a sexually corrupt Sufi teacher in Jerusalem and on a voyage to Communist China on the shore of the Yellow River.Put that in your methodological schema and explain it!
Joel Ibrahim Kreps
There is most certainly a randomness factor in the religious experience in which people can have those experiences in a context that does not involve meditation. In fact it is my hypothesis that everyone on the planet at one time or another will have a religious experience. And, I find this randomness tends to confuse people.
However, I am all about cultivating the religious experience through deep meditation. I have certainly successfully learned how to cultivating the religious experience through deep meditation for myself. And, I offer 40 years of experience with cultivating the religious experience through deep meditation for others, but I certainly do not pretend to think that my way is the "only way, truth and life."
