Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Sufism => : Tad February 12, 2023, 10:36:01 AM
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It is hard to put Meher Baba in one category. He was influenced by Sufism, Hinduism, and other traditions. But since Sufism is so under represented on our forum and Baba spent most time with teachers considered Sufi, I am putting him here.
I accidentally stumbled on an article about Meher Baba and found him quite an interesting spiritual figure. It kind of resonated with me how he explained the purpose of life and causes of creation of the world as we experience it. He acknowledged all main religions as legit and also criticized mainstream clergies for corrupting the teachings, which is similar to what we believe on FotCL. I just wish I could find more stuff about his teachings on meditation and what he thought about jhana. In any case, I am sharing a mix of his teachings that I pulled from online.
INTRO
Meher Baba's map of consciousness has been described as "a unique amalgam of Sufi, Vedic, and Yogic terminology". He taught that the goal of all beings was to gain consciousness of their own divinity, and to realise the absolute oneness of God. At the age of 19, Meher Baba began a seven-year period of spiritual transformation, during which he had encounters with Hazrat Babajan, Upasni Maharaj, Sai Baba of Shirdi, Tajuddin Baba, and Narayan Maharaj. In 1925, he began a 44-year period of observed silence, during which he communicated first using an alphabet board, and by 1954, entirely through hand gestures using an interpreter.
Meher Baba's teachings concerned the nature and purpose of life. He described the phenomenal world as illusory, and presented the idea that the Universe is imagination. He taught that God alone exists, and each soul is God passing through imagination in order to realize its own divinity. He presented advice to followers wishing to attain God-realization, and thereby escape the wheel of birth and death.
CREATION
Q. Why did God create all this?
Baba: He did not create it. It started automatically. First there was God and nothing else. In God was everything: experience, knowledge, power and existence. But he had no consciousness that he was God. All this bother and headache you see around you is to gain that consciousness.
People say that God created maya, but it is not so. For example, take the hair on the head. The hair is maya, and the head is God the creator. Although the hair grows on the head, the head does not know how, why and where it comes from. Then how can it be said that the head created hair, or God created maya? But in a way, the very creation of maya itself is dependent on God. Maya is sheer illusion, the force of imagination.
As previously explained, there are an infinite number of worlds which have cooled down. And for each such world to cool down takes cycles and cycles - imagine how long! But when a man attains Realisation, and ascends to the seventh plane, he feels as if only a second has passed. That is, no time has actually passed during the numberless changes of forms, and deaths and births of 84 lakhs - eight million, four hundred thousand times. Now I know that according to you, it accounts for billions of years, and there is no limit to accounting. But my experience is that nothing has happened, and there is no time spent.
When the first whim surged in God in the beyond state, he felt the urge of 'I want to know myself.' In this first desire was embodied the first binding which manifested into form, and in this process, the first urge abbreviated simply to 'I want.' The soul has forgotten that the want really is to know the Self, and so through countless forms it continues to feel only that 'I want.' It is only in the last phases of the involution of consciousness that the Perfected man remembers that he actually is God, who had wanted to know himself.
RELIGIONS
In all religions, the beginning of opposition against the priest class is welcome, because at present the priest class is the greatest obstacle in the path of spirituality. The rigid and deep-rooted beliefs and prejudices of age-old customs, rites and rituals which the priests have inherited and nourished in the name of religion are intolerable and the greatest impediment.
So if the downfall of this junta is brought about, the firmly imbedded prejudices and rites will be destroyed. Although there is the risk of people becoming indifferent to God and religion, these can still be revived afterward, once these rotting prejudices are uprooted.
Who gave all these different religions? The Avatars. Why have they done so? To establish principles for people, and to bring people to the point where their faces are turned toward God. Mohammad and Buddha each gave different precepts, according to the circumstances and mentality of the people of the time.
So my best advice to you is to create love for God. Earn something in my contact. Otherwise, if you spend your time in discussions on religious doctrines and dogmas, it will take you nowhere toward Truth. It is all rigamarole, and will waste your precious time, which might better be used in thinking of God, meditating and creating love. Love is the sum and substance of all religions, and the only essential of all creeds. Leave the rigamarole alone.
But if a person merely sticks to religious ceremonies and rituals, and believes that religion is that alone, then he does not advance at all. God and Truth are far, far above shariat, doctrines and dogmas, ceremonies and rituals.
DESTINY
Baba: Destiny means the divine will guiding the lines of sin and virtue, resultant in suffering and happiness, experienced by the soul from the beginning of its evolution till its end in Realisation. Fate or luck is the means or process of spending the impressions the soul gathers while passing through innumerable evolutionary stages, which, in other words, is the law of karma, or the automatic forming of luck or fate in the next life, according to the sanskaras in this life. The impressions of each life build the fate of the life coming after.
As a simile, suppose every soul has to bear a burden of 700 tons, i.e. a certain amount of suffering and happiness, which every soul has to pass through from the beginning of its evolution till the end in Realisation. But as the burden of these 700 tons varies in kind and form, the impressions of lives vary too, and the fate of every new life is formed according to the impressions gathered in the past life.
Thus the soul's present experiencing of the impressions of the past life means fate. The soul has to pass through a number of lives and forms, but as the experiences of every life vary, so the fate varies. Hence, destiny is one, but fate or luck is different.
MEDITATION
There are many methods of spiritual meditation. The following six are the most important.
1. For those who are inclined to think of the impersonal aspect of the Almighty, i.e. Impersonal God, it is advisable to retire into solitude, and taking a comfortable seat, begin to contemplate on him thus: 'God is one. God is infinite. God is everywhere. God is beyond everything.' Then they should bring the immeasurable space commonly known as the sky to their mind's eye, and begin to concentrate on the idea of the Impersonal God across this imaginary background of the blank and unlimited sky for as long a time as possible.
2. One should sit for meditation in the same way as shown in the first example. But the line of thought in this method must be as follows: "God is true. All else is false. This world and all that is seen and perceived is a dream, a mirage, an unreal phenomenon. God is living within my own self as the soul of my soul." After contemplating these thoughts for some time, one must turn one's attention to the heart. Imagine a flame as one's own atman (soul) to be there, and concentrate as much and as long as possible on this imaginary flaming spot in the heart.
3. The line of thought to be followed in this kind of meditation (the other preliminary conditions to be the same as in the first two methods) is this: "I am not this body. I am not finite. I am the self. I am eternal." Following some contemplation in this way, one must suddenly close the two external eyes as tightly as it is comfortably possible to do, and then mentally gaze intently upon the centre of the forehead from inward as much and for as long as possible, avoiding all other thoughts, whether high or lowly, during this concentration.
4. This is at once a very simple and very difficult kind of meditation. All that one has to do is to retire into solitude and sit in a comfortable position, with both the external eyes closed, and try to keep the mind a blank. One has neither to think about God, nor about the devil, neither about immortality nor about eternity, neither about the existence of the world nor about its non-existence. In short, in this meditation one must try to remain mentally blank throughout the sitting, for as long a period as possible.
5. One should sit aside in solitude, close the eyes and contemplate and mentally say and reiterate this: 'God is my beloved. I am his lover. I want union with my beloved, the Lord, the great God.' Following this process for awhile, one should begin to repeat mentally any one of the names of the Almighty in any language, but in such a way that half of the name must be pronounced (of course mentally) while inhaling the breath, and half of it to be pronounced while exhaling the breath. While carrying on this reiteration rhythmically, one should try to concentrate all attention on the reiteration of the name only.
6. One who is inclined to think of the personal aspect of the Lord, i.e. Personal God, must sit with one's soul for one's companion in a quiet spot, close the eyes, then try to bring before one's mind's eye the whole face of any Prophet, God-incarnate or Sadguru of the past or the present age, and concentrate on it as long as possible. In order to facilitate the bringing of the features of any Perfect Master to one's mind's eye, his portrait must be gazed at deeply before closing the eyes in meditation.
Astral Worlds
Garrett Fort: What about Astral journeys?
Baba: Astral journeys are taken by persons consciously and unconsciously, but those that really matter are the ones done consciously. You actually experience being aloof from the Gross body and having a Subtle body, and seeing with the eyes of the Subtle body, and smelling with the nose of the Subtle body.
In a dream when you sleep, this physical body is not used, and yet you see, smell, hear, taste, etc. You do it all with the Subtle body, but not consciously.
When you do it consciously, you actually experience being aloof from the body. You smell, you eat, you hear, you feel, doing it all as concretely as you do with the Gross body, not vaguely as in dreams. You can then actually feel the body as a cloak - you take it off and put it on like a garment. Actually - this is not just imagination.
Lower spirits are those beings without physical forms whose sanskaras remain to be wiped out. They cannot progress after death until their unfinished sanskaras are worked out. As a consequence, they wander about on the lower Astral plane. For this reason, they are a source of harassment to living people.
Suppose a man is destined to have a life span of forty years, but he commits suicide when he is thirty. Consequently, for the remaining ten year period of unexpressed sanskaras, his spirit inhabits the lower planes, and at times is seen by some people as a spirit or ghost.
To hold seances or to talk with the dead is no great thing, because such spirits are always among us on this living plane. There are advanced yogis and munis who converse with these ghosts who have committed suicide, as well as with the spirits of the higher planes. These advanced souls communicate without using a medium. They live on both levels.
Happiness
A man who came to meet Meher Baba said he was addicted to drugs.
Baba: Are you happy?
Man: No, very, very miserable.
Baba: Try to be always happy. Never think that life is dreadful, 'I am tired of life.' Such thoughts really make life miserable. Life is worth living. If you think like that, all difficulties will appear insignificant.
I will help you to try to develop love. Never think, 'I am alone,' 'I have so much to do,' 'I am poor,' and so on. All are poor. The whole world is poor. Even the millionaires are poor, because they have greed and want more. Love someone, and I will help you.* Do not worry. My blessings.
Infinite bliss is bliss eternal and continual, and because it is perpetual, it is without any opposite aspects. Happiness, on the other hand, although linked with infinite bliss, is not perpetual, and therefore it has an opposite aspect of misery.
Sources:
http://www.meherbabadnyana.net/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meher_Baba
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Thank you, Tad, for posting this thread on Meher Baba
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meher_Baba)Meher Baba (born Merwan Sheriar Irani; 25 February 1894 – 31 January 1969) was an Indian spiritual master who said he was the Avatar, or God in human form, of the age.[1][2][3] A major spiritual figure of the 20th century,[4][5] he had a following of hundreds of thousands of people, mostly in India, but with a significant number in the United States, Europe and Australia.[2][6][7]
Meher Baba's map of consciousness has been described as "a unique amalgam of Sufi, Vedic, and Yogic terminology".[8] He taught that the goal of all beings was to gain consciousness of their own divinity, and to realise the absolute oneness of God.[2][9]
First, note Meher Baba was born born "Merwan Sheriar Irani" which suggests to me a link to Persia (Iran), which is significant because Persia has been the source of several syncretic religions throughout history, and Meher Baba was certainly syncretic.
Over the decades of my contemplative life and search I have met many people who were inspired by Meher Baba, and I have investigated the work of Meher Baba over the decades; however, I never got the impression he was a genuine mystic, but just another personality cult. What we need to keep in mind is "we know a tree by its fruit." Here we refer to "fruit" in the context of mystical experience as a consequence of a dedicated meditation practice that bares mystical fruit. So, while Meher Baba recommended regular meditation practice, and even promoted a still mind, but his techniques were very cognitive with no understanding of the charismatic phenomena, so I see insufficient evidence to support the hypothesis that Meher Baba was a mystic.
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I've made a friend at my work this past year who is a very interesting man. His name is Siavash. He is Iranian-American.
He was born in Iran back when the Shah was still in power. He emigrated with his parents (his father was a colonel) to Spain before later moving to the United States. He explained one story, when the general came, and said to his father, "It is time to leave." In other words, the Shah's regime was done, the Ayatollah was taking over.
Shortly thereafter there was the invasion of Saddam Hussein. Many of the young Iranian boys were drafted, and sent as cannon fodder against the Iraqis. I believe my friend Siavash lived because of the choice his father made.
My name, of course, is Alexander; thus, I am named after the man who destroyed the whole Iranian Empire. At the same time, despite this, I have made a very good friendship with Siavash. We are able to discourse on the whole span of Iranian history. It is ancient, from 2000 BC to today.
I think the Arab conquest of the Sassanids was a tragic occurrence... before this, Iran had a very vibrant spiritual tradition. They had prophets and mystics. They had Zoroaster and Mani. The story of the magi in the Bible is actually a reference to the old Iranian religion. In many ways it was not so different from Christianity. It had the good god Ahura Mazda and the bad god Ahriman.
Today they are trapped in that medieval-fundamentalist state. It is a real tragedy in my opinion. I believe we have little to learn from them. Actually, they should learn from us. It is possible, you see, to have a spiritual culture, while also not becoming repressive, insecure, and cruel.
They have that fearful control they impose over the women, making them bundle up... I believe it is an insecurity of the male nature. They are afraid of releasing the feminine principle, that is why they control them with such cowardice, and even have the gall to throw acid at them. (Can you imagine doing that to a beautiful woman, because you are afraid of the feminine? It is a terrible thing.) No, nothing good will come of their provincial, backward, fundamentalist belief.
There is currently a big movement in Iran (if you look it up on the web, it is called the movement for a "New Iran") to overthrow the Ayatollah and create a more liberal regime. I hope this will turn out right, this time... And if there is any hope for Islam, I believe it lies in Iran.
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Jhananda,
It is an interesting fact that you investigated Meher Baba's work in the past. While I like the ideas Baba proposes, I fully agree with your assessment that sufficient teachings for quality practice are lacking. That is why I remain confident that early Buddhist scriptures is the best thing we have available when it comes to practice. Yogis would probably be the second next but I have not explored their texts yet in depth.
Alexander,
I hope you are right about prospects of brighter future for Iran. Unfortunately, it seems that the regime is too deeply engrained for any significant change to happen from the inside. There are also other powerful dictatorships in the region with vested interested in maintaining Iran under the radical government. So we will see.
Regarding the state of Islam, it kind of reminds me of how insane Christian church was in the middle ages. Maybe with time it will become more moderate. Monotheistic religions just happen to be very succeptible to corruption by the powerful and idiotic masses.
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I hope you are right about prospects of brighter future for Iran. Unfortunately, it seems that the regime is too deeply engrained for any significant change to happen from the inside. There are also other powerful dictatorships in the region with vested interested in maintaining Iran under the radical government. So we will see.
Regarding the state of Islam, it kind of reminds me of how insane Christian church was in the middle ages. Maybe with time it will become more moderate. Monotheistic religions just happen to be very succeptible to corruption by the powerful and idiotic masses.
Each nation seeks perfection by its own way. Some long and circuitous. 😂
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Alexander and Tad, I agree with much of what you both posted. Zoroastrianism appears to have been the foundational religion of Persia and even India and there are clearly traceable roots in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I agree Alexander, the three Magi of the New Testament is a clear reference to Zoroastrianism, because Magi is what they call their priests, and I agree with your reference to Mani who was another Persian advancing a syncretic religion blending Christianity, Buddhism and Zoroastrianism. I also agree that it was sad when Islam conquered Persia and destroyed its libraries and literary history and superimposed Islam upon the Persian people. We, as mystics, should also keep in mind that Sufism arose in Persia following the Islamic invasion and brought mysticism into Islam through Al Halag and other early Sufi mystics.
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I studied him during college. Just checked out some video recordings. To me he radiates supprisingly little energy for someone who kept silence for four decades. I wonder if he was really enlightened like they claim? I don't think I would study with him myself as I usually pick teachers based on how much energy and bliss I feel coming out of them. Interesting philosophies though. Thanks for sharing!
-David
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I studied him during college. Just checked out some video recordings. To me he radiates supprisingly little energy for someone who kept silence for four decades. I wonder if he was really enlightened like they claim? I don't think I would study with him myself as I usually pick teachers based on how much energy and bliss I feel coming out of them. Interesting philosophies though. Thanks for sharing!
-David
Hey David,
It is interesting that you mentioned how you look at energy levels when analyzing teachers. Not too long ago I watched a video by Sadhguru. He was saying that one will know if the guru is right for them by the energy. If they feel that guru has strong energy that makes them even feel somewhat uncomfortable but there is something pulling to it, then it is the right guru. So I guess energy might be big thing in Yoga world. For me personally, I think I try to feel how much ego they have. If they are being themselves, speak their mind freely, don't try to please everyone, it is a good indicator. In addition, like Jhananda likes to say, you will know the tree by its fruit.
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Hey David,
It is interesting that you mentioned how you look at energy levels when analyzing teachers. Not too long ago I watched a video by Sadhguru. He was saying that one will know if the guru is right for them by the energy. If they feel that guru has strong energy that makes them even feel somewhat uncomfortable but there is something pulling to it, then it is the right guru. So I guess energy might be big thing in Yoga world. For me personally, I think I try to feel how much ego they have. If they are being themselves, speak their mind freely, don't try to please everyone, it is a good indicator. In addition, like Jhananda likes to say, you will know the tree by its fruit.
Well said, Tad, but I haven't seen much in the so-called Sadhguru to support the hypothesis that he is a Sadhguru. The term "Sadhguru' is a variant of 'sat guru' it means 'true or righteous' guru, and of course the term 'guru' means 'dispeller of darkness' or 'light bringer.' And, thank you for reminding us "we know a tree by its fruit." And, of course here we refer to 'fruit' in the sense of the charisms, as well as ethics, not just claims.
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I've only watched some videos by the so called Sadhguru. Seems like he has mastered public speaking pretty well. But I also have not seen anything about his recommendad daily practice or weather his attainments are legit.
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Thanks, Tad, for your report on the "sadguru." I am always looking for someone who might be the real deal, but since none of the gurus have joined my effort, and mystical literature is so rare and often mistranslated, and none of the gurus today seem to know anything about the charisms, then I have had to conclude none of them are mystics, and if they aren't mystics, then they aren't enlightened. So, I look forward to reports from mystics here in case one of us finds another genuine mystic.
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Yeah Sadhuguru I feels some energy from but I can't say it's huge to me. I can recall when I was on retreat with Jeff in 2008 sitting next to him while he meditated and feeling the calming soothing energy. I feel like Sadhuguru puts out more energy than Meher Baba. Maybe Meher Baba was shielding his energy?
My OOB teacher initially when I met him I was skeptical of him in 2018, his claims were very out there, I asked to see one of his youtube videos and immediately when I saw it I felt bliss rush though my body so I knew he was probably real. I ended up finding out later that he was a real adept just like my intuition had shown me. But he only had 1 or 2 students. Most people ignored him for some reason.
This is the main way I pick a guru now. If I watch one of their videos and immediately fall into 2nd Jhana (thoughtlessness) looking at them I know they are for me.
-David
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Tad if you want to connect with an additional real Siddha I suggest Jeff's friend Michael Hawkins. I feel bliss when I watch his youtube videos, although I don't know if he takes students, its such a burden to take students isn't it? We all have so many of our own issues.
-David
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Tad if you want to connect with an additional real Siddha I suggest Jeff's friend Michael Hawkins. I feel bliss when I watch his youtube videos, although I don't know if he takes students, its such a burden to take students isn't it? We all have so many of our own issues.
-David
Or just keep talking to Jeff, the American arahant ;D
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Haha yeah, True Alex, Jeff is advanced.
How have you been lately Alex? My retreat is proceeding nicely. I was recently reading about the like of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. I really didn't know much about him besides his 3rd eye meditation. I was supprised to find many of the practices he did were similar to mine. For a long period of time he was apparently doing Kali worship, which is the main practice of my current retreat in addition to sitting meditation. I have been getting various realizations from her.
-David
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Haha yeah, True Alex, Jeff is advanced.
How have you been lately Alex? My retreat is proceeding nicely. I was recently reading about the like of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. I really didn't know much about him besides his 3rd eye meditation. I was supprised to find many of the practices he did were similar to mine. For a long period of time he was apparently doing Kali worship, which is the main practice of my current retreat in addition to sitting meditation. I have been getting various realizations from her.
-David
Not sure about Ramakrishna. But Kali and Shiva are always a good bet
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I spent 10 years studying Sri Rammakrishna and Vivekananda. However, I found the Pali Canon really has the most precise description of the interior life of the mystic so far.
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Interesting guys. Yes I work very closely with Bagla Kali since 2018 I think I will read more about Ramakrishna, he apparently had major realizations and major Samadhis through her. I guess every path is different. I had no idea his path involved her until a week ago.
Ramakrishna apparently worked with apparitions of Kali at the end. I have seen her sometimes and she told me a bit about where she comes from in the cosmos but usually I cannot see her full body clearly with all her clothing.
Sometimes I can see the clothing my other house spirits wear but it is still developing. The conversations I have with spirits are very nuturing, they have a very pure energy with little ego which I think is uplifting for my psyche like working with an Earth Satguru. I suppose these sorts of interactions where what washed away many ego attachments for Ramakrishna.
-David
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David,
Looks like you have a lot of interesting experience. A couple questions for you:
1. Who were your most influential teachers?
2. What do you see as the ultimate end state of your practice?
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Tad if you want to connect with an additional real Siddha I suggest Jeff's friend Michael Hawkins. I feel bliss when I watch his youtube videos, although I don't know if he takes students, its such a burden to take students isn't it? We all have so many of our own issues.
-David
Thanks. I remember reading his posts here on the forum. I will try to look up his videos. Agreed about students. This is probably one of the reasons why Gotama hesitated so long before he started tesching after awakening.
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Tad if you want to connect with an additional real Siddha I suggest Jeff's friend Michael Hawkins. I feel bliss when I watch his youtube videos, although I don't know if he takes students, its such a burden to take students isn't it? We all have so many of our own issues.
-David
Or just keep talking to Jeff, the American arahant ;D
Jhananda is the Greatest of All Times (GOAT)! :)
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Interesting guys. Yes I work very closely with Bagla Kali since 2018 I think I will read more about Ramakrishna, he apparently had major realizations and major Samadhis through her. I guess every path is different. I had no idea his path involved her until a week ago.
What I find a bit interesting is Ramakrishna was prone to ecstatic trances while standing, which is not at all what I tend to experience, but it does remind me of Socrates. Perhaps you have read the complete dialogs of Plato. If not I highly recommend it for contemplatives, even though there is nothing in them that suggest a formal meditation practice, but the use of logic and critical thinking and ecstatic altered states of consciousness are.
Ramakrishna apparently worked with apparitions of Kali at the end. I have seen her sometimes and she told me a bit about where she comes from in the cosmos but usually I cannot see her full body clearly with all her clothing.
Sometimes I can see the clothing my other house spirits wear but it is still developing. The conversations I have with spirits are very nuturing, they have a very pure energy with little ego which I think is uplifting for my psyche like working with an Earth Satguru. I suppose these sorts of interactions where what washed away many ego attachments for Ramakrishna.
-David
David, I find the deeper I go the less anthropomorphic the beings I meet in the immaterial domains are resulting in the deepest/highest states beings are just points of light and love. Conversely, the more anthropomorphic the closer to the earth plane the least ecstatic, and least depth, the state.
Tad if you want to connect with an additional real Siddha I suggest Jeff's friend Michael Hawkins. I feel bliss when I watch his youtube videos, although I don't know if he takes students, its such a burden to take students isn't it? We all have so many of our own issues.
-David
Thanks. I remember reading his posts here on the forum. I will try to look up his videos. Agreed about students. This is probably one of the reasons why Gotama hesitated so long before he started tesching after awakening.
I have kept in touch with Michael. He has recently been through some life trauma, but I hope he comes back to this forum, because he was such an excellent contributor. To me, it takes a community to inspire others to lead a rigorous, self-aware, contemplative life; however, most mystics never find that community, so end up practicing and attaining on their own, and more often than not never even enter the historic record.
Tad if you want to connect with an additional real Siddha I suggest Jeff's friend Michael Hawkins. I feel bliss when I watch his youtube videos, although I don't know if he takes students, its such a burden to take students isn't it? We all have so many of our own issues.
-David
Or just keep talking to Jeff, the American arahant ;D
Jhananda is the Greatest of All Times (GOAT)! :)
Thanks folks. You are so kind. Do keep in mind this is not a personality cult. This is a community effort to get the most people to the greatest depth for the longest period, which means it will have to be a community effort.
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What I find a bit interesting is Ramakrishna was prone to ecstatic trances while standing
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I have had trances in front of a mirror, standing maybe. Probably better to discuss in another thread.
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David, I find the deeper I go the less anthropomorphic the beings I meet in the immaterial domains are resulting in the deepest/highest states beings are just points of light and love. Conversely, the more anthropomorphic the closer to the earth plane the least ecstatic, and least depth, the state.
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My experience is these spirits have those forms in higher realms but put on a veil of a bipedal form for us as they come down. My main angel friend told me that in her true form she is like that, an orb with wing like protrusions.
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Thanks folks. You are so kind. Do keep in mind this is not a personality cult.
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Just trying to be supportive, I am pretty confidant that I can read a Guru's level by the amout of energy /emotions I feel coming out of him or her is what I was saying. That empathic skill has really paid off for me over the last ten years.
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What I find a bit interesting is Ramakrishna was prone to ecstatic trances while standing, which is not at all what I tend to experience, but it does remind me of Socrates. Perhaps you have read the complete dialogs of Plato. If not I highly recommend it for contemplatives, even though there is nothing in them that suggest a formal meditation practice, but the use of logic and critical thinking and ecstatic altered states of consciousness are.
Seconding the recommendation of Plato and Socrates. As the Oracle said, Socrates was the wisest of the Greeks. He had the Form of wisdom in him.
And Plato? That man knew it all.
David, I find the deeper I go the less anthropomorphic the beings I meet in the immaterial domains are resulting in the deepest/highest states beings are just points of light and love. Conversely, the more anthropomorphic the closer to the earth plane the least ecstatic, and least depth, the state.
I agree with this. In the higher domains, you become simply a point of infinite consciousness.
Thanks folks. You are so kind. Do keep in mind this is not a personality cult. This is a community effort to get the most people to the greatest depth for the longest period, which means it will have to be a community effort.
And he's humble too! 10/10, would be his disciple again ;D
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Ramakrishna apparently worked with apparitions of Kali at the end. I have seen her sometimes and she told me a bit about where she comes from in the cosmos but usually I cannot see her full body clearly with all her clothing.
Yes, she's a... mysterious one. ;D
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Thanks, Alexander, for your continued support of the community here.
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Here is another beautiful piece of Meher Baba's teachings. I really love his philosophy.
Meher Baba
TWELVE WAYS OF REALIZING ME
LONGING ... If you experience that same longing and thirst for Union with Me as one who has been lying for days in the hot sun of the Sahara experiences the longing for water, then you will realize Me.
PEACE OF MIND ... If you have the peace of a frozen lake, then too, you will realize Me.
HUMILITY ... If you have the humility of the earth which can be molded into any shape, then you will know Me.
DESPERATION ... If you experience the desperation that causes a man to commit suicide and you feel that you cannot live without seeing Me, then you will see Me.
FAITH ... If you have the complete faith that Kalyan had for his Master, in believing it was night, although it was day, because his Master said so, then you will know Me.
FIDELITY ... If you have the fidelity that the breath has in giving you company, even without your constantly feeling it, till the end of your life, that both in happiness and in suffering gives you company and never turns against you, then you will know Me.
CONTROL THROUGH LOVE ... When your love for Me drives away your lust for the things of the senses, then you realize Me.
SELFLESS SERVICE ... If you have the quality of selfless service unaffected by results, similar to that of the sun which serves the world by shining on all creation, on the grass in the field, on the birds in the air, on the beasts in the forest, on all mankind with its sinner and its saint, its rich and its poor, unconscious of their attitude towards it, then you will win Me.
RENUNCIATION ... If you renounce for Me everything physical, mental and spiritual, then you have Me.
OBEDIENCE ... If your obedience is spontaneous, complete and natural as the light is to the eye or smell is to the nose, then you come to Me.
SURRENDER ... If your surrender to Me is as wholehearted as that of one, who, suffering from insomnia, surrenders to sudden sleep without fear of being lost, then you have Me.
LOVE ... If you have that love for Me that St. Francis had for Jesus, then not only will you realize Me, but you will please Me.
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It is beautiful. It reminds me of Teresa of Avila. The "Spiritual Marriage" of the soul with God.