Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Ecstatic Buddhism => : Michel September 15, 2013, 08:24:52 PM
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I cobbled together this brief outline of the eightfold path from various sources. Some of it is my understanding, some from the web, and various other sources. The 8th factor of the path, on right samadhi, I got from Jhanananda's GWV website.
I want to understand how to incorporate the practice of the path into my daily routine and during meditation.
Do you think this outline represents an accurate outline of what Siddhatta Gotama taught in the Pali suttas?
I find Right Effort and Right Mindfulness to be the most difficult to understand. How does one practice them in meditation and outside of meditation?
The Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga)
1. Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi)
1) mundane view: intellectual understanding that accords with the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the three marks of existance and in general the Buddha's Dhamma
2) supramundane view: intuitive, deep, penetrating knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the three marks of existance and the Buddha's Dhamma realized through Jhana meditation
2. Right Intention/Thinking/Resolve (sammá-sankappa)
1) Renunciation - to abandon craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters harmfulness)
3. Right Speech (sammá-vácá)
1) abstaining from false speech
2) abstaining from slanderous speech
3) abstaining from harsh speech
4) abstaining from idle chatter.
4. Right Action (sammá-kammanta) – abstaining from killing, stealing and sexual misconduct
5. Right Livelihood (sammá-ájíva) – abstaining from dishonest and harmful means of livelihood
6. Right Effort (samma-vayama)
1) to prevent unwholesome states from arising (the five hindrances)
2) to abandon unwholesome states that have arisen (the five hindrances)
3) to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen (serenity and insight, Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Eightfold Path, etc. -- Seven Factors of Enlightenment (most important)
4) to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen
7. Right Mindfulness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral
3) Mindful contemplation of mind-states (citta) moods - greed, aversion, delusion and their opposites -generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom [greed, aversion, and delusion are the first 3 factors of the ten factors of meditation]
4) Mindful contemplation of mind objects (dhammas) -- the Five categories of dhammas: Five Hindrances, Five Aggregates, Six-sense bases, Seven Factors of Enlightenment, Four Noble Truths
8. Right Samadhi ] (samma-samadhi) – Four Form Jhanas (rupa jhanas) or Meditative Absorptions
1) 1st Jhana The first ecstasy (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal, accompanied by applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára).
2) 2nd Jhana With the stilling of applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára), one enters and remains in the second ecstasy (jhana): joy (sukha) and bliss (piiti) born of tranquility, unification of awareness free from applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára) with internal assurance.
3) 3rd Jhana With the fading of joy one remains in equanimity, aware and alert, physically sensitive to bliss (piiti). One enters and remains in the third ecstasy (jhana), of which the Noble Ones declare, 'equanimous and aware, one has a pleasurable abiding.'
4) 4th Jhana With the abandoning of grasping and aversion for pleasure and pain (sukha and dukkha) -- as with the earlier disappearance of pleasure and pain -- one enters and remains in the fourth ecstasy (jhana): purity of equanimity and awareness, with neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right meditation."
- first two path factors comprise theWisdom Group (pañña)
-3rd, 4th and 5th path factors comprise the Virtue Group (sila):
-6th,7th and 8th path factors comprise the Meditation Group (samadhi):
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I've read a number of books and articles on Right Effort and Right Mindfulness authored by Bodhi, Gunaratana, Khema, Thanissaro, etc. They describe the path factors well, but none of them tell you how, when, where, and under what circumstances to practice them.
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Thank-you, Michel, for posting a very concise and well researched explication of the Noble Eightfold Path. I particularly appreciate the fact that you incorporated the experience of jhana as a crucial aspect of "right understanding," because most Buddhist priests and lay meditation teachers either completely ignore the significance of jhana, or out right state it is optional; which means these dhamma teachers do not even have Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi). And, if the GWV is going to be successful then it has to have a rigorously investigated dhamma that incorporates jhana into the N8P.
I cobbled together this brief outline of the eightfold path from various sources. Some of it is my understanding, some from the web, and various other sources. The 8th factor of the path, on right samadhi, I got from Jhanananda's GWV website.
I want to understand how to incorporate the practice of the path into my daily routine and during meditation.
Do you think this outline represents an accurate outline of what Siddhatta Gotama taught in the Pali suttas?
Your description here is better than any other that I have seen, so you have clearly researched your subject well.
I find Right Effort and Right Mindfulness to be the most difficult to understand. How does on practice them in meditation and outside of meditation?
I will cover those subjects below, but I can understand why you might be confused, when nearly no dhamma teacher understands the significance of jhana, which is the Buddha's definition of the 8th fold.
The Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga)
1. Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi)
1) mundane view: intellectual understanding that accords with the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the three marks of existance and in general the Buddha's Dhamma
2) supramundane view: intuitive, deep, penetrating knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the three marks of existance and the Buddha's Dhamma realized through Jhana meditation
Separating out the N8P in terms of mundane view verses supramundane view is good here, because we can see all of the dhamma teachers who do not understand the significance of jhana only have the mundane view.
The only bone to pick for me here is Jhana is not a meditation technique. Meditation techniques are described under the 7th fold; whereas, jhana is a religious experience, and it is described under the 8th fold. So, we have to be clear that using the phrase "Jhana meditation" could be misleading to those who have the mundane view. Therefore, yes, jhana is the resolution of the N8P, so right view should reflect that, but jhana is an experience (phala), not a practice (magga).
2. Right Intention/Thinking/Resolve (sammá-sankappa)
1) Renunciation - to abandon craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters harmfulness)
This is good.
3. Right Speech (sammá-vácá)
1) abstaining from false speech
2) abstaining from slanderous speech
3) abstaining from harsh speech
4) abstaining from idle chatter.
I might add that abstaining from expressing an incorrect understanding of the dhamma is also Right Speech (sammá-vácá).
4. Right Action (sammá-kammanta) – abstaining from killing, stealing and sexual misconduct
I suppose we should add that Right Action (sammá-kammanta) is also leading a contemplative life that leads to jhana.
5. Right Livelihood (sammá-ájíva) – abstaining from dishonest and harmful means of livelihood
We should add here that Right Livelihood/lifestyle (sammá-ájíva) is one that leads to a contemplative life that leads to jhana.
6. Right Effort (samma-vayama)
1) to prevent unwholesome states from arising (the five hindrances)
2) to abandon unwholesome states that have arisen (the five hindrances)
3) to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen (serenity and insight, Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Eightfold Path, etc. -- Seven Factors of Enlightenment (most important)
4) to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen
This is good, but we should state that several of the Seven Factors of Enlightenment are jhana-nimitta, therefore Right Effort (samma-vayama) is one that leads to jhana. And, Right Effort (samma-vayama) is being rigorous in one's contemplative life, which is not being a lazy couch potato who wears the robes and expounds a deeply flawed version of the dhamma, and works to disempower anyone who has the attainment of jhana.
7. Right Mindfulness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral
3) Mindful contemplation of mind-states (citta) moods - greed, aversion, delusion and their opposites -generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom [greed, aversion, and delusion are the first 3 factors of the ten factors of meditation]
4) Mindful contemplation of mind objects (dhammas) -- the Five categories of dhammas: Five Hindrances, Five Aggregates, Six-sense bases, Seven Factors of Enlightenment, Four Noble Truths
This is very good. The confusion for many comes when the 8th fold is incorrectly defined as "right concentration." Doing so confuses the 7th fold with the 8th fold. When we see nearly every Buddhist priest and lay meditation teacher makes this deeply flawed mistake, then we find a whole lot of confusion.
The 7th fold is all about the practice of meditation, which is all about developing concentration. However, concentration is not the experience of jhana, it leads to jhana. Jhana, on the other hand, is a religious experience that is characterized by bliss, joy, ecstasy and is an altered state of consciousness which also has heightened awareness.
8. Right Samadhi ] (samma-samadhi) – Four Form Jhanas (rupa jhanas) or Meditative Absorptions
1) 1st Jhana The first ecstasy (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal, accompanied by applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára).
2) 2nd Jhana With the stilling of applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára), one enters and remains in the second ecstasy (jhana): joy (sukha) and bliss (piiti) born of tranquility, unification of awareness free from applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára) with internal assurance.
3) 3rd Jhana With the fading of joy one remains in equanimity, aware and alert, physically sensitive to bliss (piiti). One enters and remains in the third ecstasy (jhana), of which the Noble Ones declare, 'equanimous and aware, one has a pleasurable abiding.'
4) 4th Jhana With the abandoning of grasping and aversion for pleasure and pain (sukha and dukkha) -- as with the earlier disappearance of pleasure and pain -- one enters and remains in the fourth ecstasy (jhana): purity of equanimity and awareness, with neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right meditation."
- first two path factors comprise the Wisdom Group (pañña)
-3rd, 4th and 5th path factors comprise the Virtue Group (sila):
-6th,7th and 8th path factors comprise the Meditation Group (samadhi):
This is very good.
In summary, the Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi) of the dhamma is the supramundane view that the entire Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path points to jhana as the doorway to liberation (vimokha) and enlightenment (nibanna).
Thank-you for posting this excellent and concise description of the Noble Eightfold Path.
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Thank you so much, Jhanananda, for your insightful critique. You have a way of articulating things in a clear and simple fashion. I really appreciate this. To me, this is the hallmark of a great teacher!
I'm pondering what you've said, it has filled in some of the gaps of my understanding. It will take some time to fully understand it. But so far the path looks beautifully elegant and simple. The way each of the factors are interwoven and how they flow into each other is becoming clear to me. I'm overjoyed.
Here's how I understand the general idea behind the eightfold path:
The practice of the three factors of virtue lays the foundation for the successful experience of jhana. The fruit (phala) of jhana are the supramundane knowledges: the four noble truths, kamma and rebirth, etc. - which is 'right understanding. The only problem with this is that it leaves out "right intention". Where does 'right intention' fit in? Traditionally 'right understanding" & 'right intention' comprise the 'wisdom group'. My guess is that the fruit of jhana also brings about "right intention, in other words -- the 'abandonment of craving' and the attainment of some of the factors of the brahma-viharas, or possibly all of them - metta, compassion, sympathetic joy and equanimity - which are also the fruits of jhana. Would this fit under 'right intention' or is it a bit of a stretch?
I'll post an amended version of the path later to see if I understand all that you've said.
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Thank you so much, Jhanananda, for your insightful critique. You have a way of articulating things in a clear and simple fashion. I really appreciate this. To me, this is the hallmark of a great teacher!
Thank-you, Michel, it is just my job description.
I'm pondering what you've said, it has filled in some of the gaps of my understanding. It will take some time to fully understand it. But so far the path looks beautifully elegant and simple. The way each of the factors are interwoven and how they flow into each other is becoming clear to me. I'm overjoyed.
Here's how I understand the general idea behind the eightfold path:
The practice of the three factors of virtue lays the foundation for the successful experience of jhana. The fruit (phala) of jhana are the supramundane knowledges: the four noble truths, kamma and rebirth, etc. - which is 'right understanding.
This is good. Too few contemplative traditions emphasize the importance of ethics, and just sell meditation techniques, as if people who are unethical can get to enlightenment by just mechanically engaging in some habitual mental exercise, which is not true. On the other hand, anyone, criminal or not, can become enlightened; however, they simply must take up an ethical life to get there, and ethics takes time to develop, because spiritual development is not drive-thru, or instant.
The only problem with this is that it leaves out "right intention". Where does 'right intention' fit in? Traditionally 'right understanding" & 'right intention' comprise the 'wisdom group'. My guess is that the fruit of jhana also brings about "right intention, in other words -- the 'abandonment of craving' and the attainment of some of the factors of the brahma-viharas, or possibly all of them - metta, compassion, sympathetic joy and equanimity - which are also the fruits of jhana. Would this fit under 'right intention' or is it a bit of a stretch?
I'll post an amended version of the path later to see if I understand all that you've said.
Right intention can certainly be seen as part of the first and/or the 6th folds.
One of the things that I feel I need to emphasize from time to time is the Pali language is an ancient, dead primitive language, that has undergone a tremendous amount of language shift in the intervening 26 centuries since Siddhartha Gautama used that language to express his enlightenment. Also, since most Buddhist priests and lay meditation teachers clearly do not understand jhana, then we have plenty of evidence to suggest that the Buddha dhamma has not been properly translated into English, or even articulated in about 2000 years. So, let us do our best to reorient the dhamma into our daily rigorous, self-aware, ethical, contemplative lifestyle. Doing so might mean that we may have to toss out some precious belief systems and establish new modes of understanding.
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Quote from: Michel on September 16, 2013, 03:54:02 PM
The only problem with this is that it leaves out "right intention". Where does 'right intention' fit in? Traditionally 'right understanding" & 'right intention' comprise the 'wisdom group'. My guess is that the fruit of jhana also brings about "right intention, in other words -- the 'abandonment of craving' and the attainment of some of the factors of the brahma-viharas, or possibly all of them - metta, compassion, sympathetic joy and equanimity - which are also the fruits of jhana. Would this fit under 'right intention' or is it a bit of a stretch?
Jhananda wrote: Right intention can certainly be seen as part of the first and/or the 6th folds.
1st question: What do you mean by "right intention can certainly be seen as part of the first and/or the 6th folds". What are "the first and/or the 6th folds"? I understand "the first fold" to be "right view" and " the 6th fold" is "right effort". I don't get it. Why 'right effort'?
2nd question: I also wrote that the fruit of jhana also brings about "right intention, in other words -- the 'abandonment of craving' and the attainment of some of the factors of the brahma-viharas, or possibly all of them - metta, compassion, sympathetic joy and equanimity - which are also the fruits of jhana. Would this fit under 'right intention' or is it a bit of a stretch? Do you agree with this?
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Jhanananda, Here are the amendments that you suggested of the outline of the eightfold path. How does it look? It needs a rewrite by somebody who can write, which isn't me -- but it's good enough. I love your description of the four jhanas -- it's the precious jewel in the crown. The amendments that you suggested are in bold italics:
The Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga)
1. Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi)
1) mundane view: intellectual understanding that accords with the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the three marks of existance and in general the Buddha's Dhamma
2) supramundane view: intuitive, deep, penetrating knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the three marks of existance and the Buddha's Dhamma; this knowledge arises as a result of the fruitition (phala) of experiencing the Jhanas.
In summary, Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi) of the dhamma is the supramundane view that the entire Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path points to jhana as the doorway to liberation (vimokha) and enlightenment (nibanna).
2. Right Intention/Thinking/Resolve (sammá-sankappa)
1) Renunciation - to abandon craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
3. Right Speech (sammá-vácá)
1) abstaining from false speech; and from expressing a false understanding of the dhamma
2) abstaining from slanderous speech
3) abstaining from harsh speech
4) abstaining from idle chatter.
4. Right Action (sammá-kammanta) – abstaining from killing, stealing and sexual misconduct
5. Right Livelihood/Lifestyle (sammá-ájíva)
– abstaining from dishonest and harmful means of livelihood; leading a lifestyle suitable for a contemplative life that nurtures the development of the jhana meditation states[/i]
6. Right Effort (samma-vayama)
1) to prevent unwholesome states from arising (the five hindrances/the ten defilements, and the thoughts, emotions, and intentions derived from them)
2) to abandon unwholesome states that have arisen (the five hindrances/the ten defilements)
3) to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen (serenity and insight, Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Eightfold Path, etc. -- especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment leading to jhana
4) to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen
7. Right Mindfulness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral
3) Mindful contemplation of mind-states (citta) moods - greed, aversion, delusion and their opposites -generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom [greed, aversion, and delusion are the first 3 factors of the ten factors of meditation]
4) Mindful contemplation of mind objects (dhammas) -- the Five categories of dhammas: Five Hindrances, Five Aggregates, Six-sense bases, Seven Factors of Enlightenment, Four Noble Truths
8. Right Meditation/Samadhi (samma-samadhi) – Four Form Jhanas (rupa jhanas) or Meditative Absorptions
1) First Jhana: The first ecstasy (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal, accompanied by applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára).
2) Second Jhana: With the stilling of applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára), one enters and remains in the second ecstasy (jhana): joy (sukha) and bliss (piiti) born of tranquility, unification of awareness free from applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára) with internal assurance.
3) Third Jhana: With the fading of joy one remains in equanimity, aware and alert, physically sensitive to bliss (piiti). One enters and remains in the third ecstasy (jhana), of which the Noble Ones declare, 'equanimous and aware, one has a pleasurable abiding.
4) Fourth Jhana: With the abandoning of grasping and aversion for pleasure and pain (sukha and dukkha) -- as with the earlier disappearance of pleasure and pain -- one enters and remains in the fourth ecstasy (jhana): purity of equanimity and awareness, with neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right meditation."
Note:
- the first two path factors comprise the Wisdom Group (pañña)
- the 3rd, 4th and 5th path factors comprise the Virtue Group (sila):
- the 6th,7th and 8th path factors comprise the Meditation Group (samadhi):
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Jhanananda, Here are the amendments that you suggested of the outline of the eightfold path. How does it look? It needs a rewrite by somebody who can write, which isn't me -- but it's good enough. I love your description of the four jhanas -- it's the precious jewel in the crown. The amendments that you suggested are in bold italics:
I think you have done a great job. I just thought of a few small adjustments to follow your supramundane concept; so that we have a mundane view which comes from not attaining the 4 jhanas, verses the supramundane view, which comes from the direct experience of jhana, which evolves through the arahat (4th jhana mastery).
One of the things that I believe is at the heart of how all mainstream religions tend to marginalize their mystics is not understanding that there are layers to righteousness/dhamma/darma/dao. For instance, there is nothing wrong with the mundane view, it just is not complete.
We all have to start somewhere on our spiritual/contemplative journey, so we start with the mundane view and move toward the supramundane view.
What I mean by this is, the supramundane Noble Eightfold Path is an excellent description of a righteous/dhamma/darma/dao lifestyle. However, not everyone is willing, or ready, to renounce the world and go forth into righteous, and spend all of their time developing the religious experience. So, we start from where we are, and we move forward from there.
For example let us say that the average person is madly pursuing the 7 deadly sins/10 fetters., etc. They are not at all interested in the after-life, nor in seeking a peaceful coexistence with others.
Then, such a person as above has some kind of spiritual/emotional crisis and decides to take up a wholesome/righteous/spiritual/contemplative lifestyle. They overcoming their denial systems and start with the first noble truth, which is to realize that suffering exists, and there is a way out of their suffering, and that way is leading a wholesome/righteous/spiritual/contemplative lifestyle. However, that is all they might be able to do, so they are a 1-fold mundane follower.
As they mature into the wholesome/righteous/spiritual/contemplative life they evolve into a 2-fold mundane follower, then 3, and so forth; until they get to the 8th fold, when they start experiencing the religious experience (jhana), and are transformed by it. From that point on they become a supramundane-fold follower. So, below is a copy of your chart with a few small changes:
The Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga)
1. Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi)
Mundane
1) intellectual understanding that accords with the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the three marks of existance and in general the Buddha's Dhamma
Supramundane
1) intuitive, deep, penetrating knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the three marks of existance and the Buddha's Dhamma; this knowledge arises as a result of the fruit (phala) of experiencing the Jhanas.
In summary, Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi) of the dhamma is the supramundane view that the entire Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path points to jhana as the doorway to liberation (vimokha) from suffering (dukkha) and enlightenment (nibanna).
2. Right Intention/Thinking/Resolve/understanding (sammá-sankappa)
Mundane
1) Discipline - reducing craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Aspiring to Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Aspiring to Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
Supramundane (the attainment of jhana burns away the cravings so that we can genuinely manifest Renunciation, Good will and Harmlessness
1) Renunciation - to abandon craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
3. Right Speech (sammá-vácá)
Mundane
1) abstaining from false speech; and from expressing a false understanding of the dhamma
2) abstaining from slanderous speech
3) abstaining from harsh speech
4) abstaining from idle chatter.
Supramundane
1) Truth speech; and expressing a true understanding of the dhamma
2) Generous speech
3) Kind speech
4) Teaching a Supramundane dhamma.
4. Right Action (sammá-kammanta) –
Mundane
abstaining from killing, stealing and sexual misconduct
Supramundane
Being kind, generous, and inspiring others to lead a wholesome/righteous/spiritual/contemplative life
5. Right Livelihood/Lifestyle (sammá-ájíva)
Mundane
– abstaining from dishonest and harmful means of livelihood;
Supramundane
leading a lifestyle suitable for a contemplative life that nurtures the development of the jhana meditation states[/i]
6. Right Effort (samma-vayama)
Mundane
1) to prevent unwholesome states from arising (the five hindrances/the ten defilements, and the thoughts, emotions, and intentions derived from them)
2) to abandon unwholesome states that have arisen (the five hindrances/the ten defilements)
Supramundane
1) to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen (serenity, equanimity and insight, Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Eightfold Path, etc. -- especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment leading to jhana
2) to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen (which all implies the cultivation of the 4 jhanas)
7. Right Mindfulness and self-awareness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral
3) Mindful contemplation of mind-states (citta) moods - greed, aversion, delusion and their opposites -generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom [greed, aversion, and delusion are the first 3 factors of the ten factors of meditation]
4) Mindful contemplation of mind objects (dhammas) -- the Five categories of dhammas: Five Hindrances, Five Aggregates, Six-sense bases, Seven Factors of Enlightenment, Four Noble Truths
8. Right Religious Experience (samma-samadhi) – Four levels of Jhana or Meditative Absorptions
1) First Jhana: The first ecstasy (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal, accompanied by applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára).
2) Second Jhana: With the stilling of applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára), one enters and remains in the second ecstasy (jhana): joy (sukha) and bliss (piiti) born of tranquility, unification of awareness free from applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára) with internal assurance.
3) Third Jhana: With the fading of joy one remains in equanimity, aware and alert, physically sensitive to bliss (piiti). One enters and remains in the third ecstasy (jhana), of which the Noble Ones declare, 'equanimous and aware, one has a pleasurable abiding.
5) Fourth Jhana: With the abandoning of grasping and aversion for pleasure and pain (sukha and dukkha) -- as with the earlier disappearance of pleasure and pain -- one enters and remains in the fourth ecstasy (jhana): purity of equanimity and awareness, with neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right meditation."
Note:
- the first two path factors comprise the Wisdom Group (pañña)
- the 3rd, 4th and 5th path factors comprise the Virtue Group (sila):
- the 6th,7th and 8th path factors comprise the Meditation and Religious Experience Group (samadhi)
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Thank you, Jhanananda -- these are really good - your edits and comments. I especially like that you have taken it further on dividing many of the path factors into the mundane and supramundane. Brilliant! No one else takes it this far. Bhikkhu Bodhi also makes a distinction between the mundane and the supramundane - but only with 'right view'.
We now have a good road map for the long and great journey to nibanna. I intend to use it.
I've read a number of books and articles on Right Effort and Right Mindfulness authored by various Therevadan authors and teachers. They describe the path factors in great length, but none of them tell you how, when, where, and under what circumstances to practice them.
I have questions on 'mindfulness of the body'. They are in bold italics below.
The six components of right mindfulness are:
1) Mindfulness of the breath.[Anapanasati] I understand this one.
2) Mindfulness of the four postures: walking, standing, sitting, and lying down. I understand this one
3) Mindfulness with clear comprehension: purpose, suitability, domain, and non-delusion I have trouble understanding non-delusion. I think we keep all of these in mind in our daily practice outside of meditation?
4) Reflection on the thirty-two parts of the body. [to develop dispassion for the body, to extinguish the fire of lust] How do you practice this one? I sit down close my eyes and contemplate them for 10 minutes or so. I don't just do the 32 parts of the body, I improvise. I start from my feet thinking about all their details, blood flowing in the veins, etc. and work my way up to my head. I also incorporate the 4 elements in this reflection.
5) Analysis of the four elements.[to realize the changing material essence of the body. ]There is nothing here that can be considered a truly existent self, or sense of personal identity.] I incorporate this one in my parts of body contemplation
6) Nine cemetery contemplations.[is to realize all living beings are impermanent and subject to death.] I close my eyes and contemplate these for 5 minutes. Sometimes I look at photos of dead corpses for inspiration. If my mother knew this, she would cross me out of her will.
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I have questions on 'mindfulness of the body'. They are in bold italics below.
Another of the common delusions in mainstream Buddhism is we have to engage in all kinds of mental exercises to get to enlightenment, which probably explains why there has not been a Buddha in Buddhism in 26 centuries. The thing to keep in mind is the whole of the Noble Eightfold Path points to jhana. So, just use as much of the Noble Eightfold Path as you need to get to jhana and traverse all 8 stages of samadhi.
So, the reason why there are all of those meditation and mindfulness exercises (sati) is because some people need to work at it harder than others. So, get to jhana, however you can. If you need to do all of the sati mindfulness exercises, then do them, but if you do not, then just get to jhana during each meditation session and stay there saturating yourself in its depths.
3) Mindfulness with clear comprehension: purpose, suitability, domain, and non-delusion I have trouble understanding non-delusion. I think we keep all of these in mind in our daily practice outside of meditation?
Yes, the contemplative life is more about developing mindful self-awareness in every moment, than it is about occupying the mind with endless mental exercises, and/or burying our neuroses under a mountain of religiosity. We get beyond our delusions by unpacking our belief systems, dumping the delusions (even if they are preciously held by billions of devotees) stilling the mind, and developing insight, which needs jhana to develop.
4) Reflection on the thirty-two parts of the body. [to develop dispassion for the body, to extinguish the fire of lust] How do you practice this one? I sit down close my eyes and contemplate them for 10 minutes or so. I don't just do the 32 parts of the body, I improvise. I start from my feet thinking about all their details, blood flowing in the veins, etc. and work my way up to my head. I also incorporate the 4 elements in this reflection.[/i]
This is essentially kayagati-sati. It is body scanning. It helps to use body scanning to locate areas of tension and release them, so that we can go into deep meditation states. One can take the process further to developing dispassion for the body by observing the decomposition of a corps, or by a mental projection of reflecting upon the fragility, sickness, decay, old age and death of your own body.
5) Analysis of the four elements.[to realize the changing material essence of the body. ]There is nothing here that can be considered a truly existent self, or sense of personal identity.] I incorporate this one in my parts of body contemplation
6) Nine cemetery contemplations.[is to realize all living beings are impermanent and subject to death.] I close my eyes and contemplate these for 5 minutes. Sometimes I look at photos of dead corpses for inspiration. If my mother knew this, she would cross me out of her will.
Do whatever works to get you to deep states of meditation. The doorway to deep meditation is deep relaxation and stilling the mind, so do whatever it takes to get there. But, I do not believe that spending all of your meditation time doing 5 minute mental exercises is going to get you there.
So, start each meditation session with observing the breath, because it is calming and relaxing. When you feel some calm, then scan your body once for any tension. Release any tension that you find in the scan, then go back to the breath, and aspire to stilling the mind.
When your mind is still, then you are in the second jhana. Just savor that still mind, and see how long you can sustain it.
When your mind has been still for about 20 minutes, then you are likely to find a deeper level of relaxation and still mind. This is the equanimity of the 3rd jhana.
When you can sustain this equanimity for another 20 minutes, then you are likely to arrive at a subjective state that feels deeper, more pleasant, more aware; where you feel free of the gravity upon the body. This is the 4th jhana.
If you can sustain the 4th jhana for another 20 minutes, then you are likely to leave the body and begin to travel in the immaterial domains.
Meditate thus every day, as many times a day as you are inspired to do. If you can meditate thus 3 times a day, for one hour sessions, then you are likely to become a meditation master in just a year of such practice. If you can meditate thus 6 hours day, then you are likely to become the next Buddha.
A living religion is a religion that can produce mystics, prophets, Messiahs, Buddhas, Avatars in every generation, so that there is not just a second coming, or a last prophet, but a continuation of mystics, prophets, Messiahs, Buddhas, Avatars.
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Thank-you, Jhananda for your detailed reply.
Let's discuss mindfulness of feeling. (based on your last reply, I have a feeling that I know what you're going to say.)
But this is for everyone to understand, not just me.
The second factor of 'right mindfulness' is mindfulness of feeling (vedana). It is usually described generally as pleasant, unpleasant and neutral feelings.
A more detail list is the 108 DIFFERENT KINDS OF FEELINGs:
- five senses — eyes & forms, nose & smells, ears & sounds, tongue & tastes, & skin & touches
- mind & mental objects (sixth sense) -- thoughts, memories, imaginings, and daydreams
- physical sensation or inner generated emotion
- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral
- past, present, future
How should we practice this? My guess is we should be just aware of our feelings. That's all.
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Thank-you, Jhananda for your detailed reply.
Let's discuss mindfulness of feeling. (based on your last reply, I have a feeling that I know what you're going to say.)
But this is for everyone to understand, not just me.
The second factor of 'right mindfulness' is mindfulness of feeling (vedana). It is usually described generally as pleasant, unpleasant and neutral feelings.
I think it is a good idea to discuss the four paths one mindfulness and self awareness (satipathana).
A more detail list is the 108 DIFFERENT KINDS OF FEELINGs:
- five senses — eyes & forms, nose & smells, ears & sounds, tongue & tastes, & skin & touches
- mind & mental objects (sixth sense) -- thoughts, memories, imaginings, and daydreams
- physical sensation or inner generated emotion
- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral
- past, present, future
How should we practice this? My guess is we should be just aware of our feelings. That's all.
I am not sure where this list came from, but it does not seem suttic to me. If it is, then I would like to know the sutta that it comes from.
From my understanding of the suttas (vedana) is strictly the five senses.
Mental formations, structures, beliefs or projections is (sañkhara). Mental formations, which are: mind & mental objects -- thoughts, memories, imaginings, daydreams, and emotions.
However, one of the things to get to understand the dhamma as it is expressed in the Pali canon, is the world view of the people at the time and place where Siddhartha Gautama lived was radically different than the western European world view represented by the modern English language.
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Quote from: Michel on September 19, 2013, 10:19:17 AM
A more detail list is the 108 DIFFERENT KINDS OF FEELINGs:
- five senses — eyes & forms, nose & smells, ears & sounds, tongue & tastes, & skin & touches
- mind & mental objects (sixth sense) -- thoughts, memories, imaginings, and daydreams
- physical sensation or inner generated emotion
- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral
- past, present, future
How should we practice this? My guess is we should be just aware of our feelings. That's all.
Quote from Jhananda:
I am not sure where this list came from, but it does not seem suttic to me. If it is, then I would like to know the sutta that it comes from.
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Reply from Michel:
I got it from a Gunaratana book, "the 4 Foundations of Mindfulness in plain English". I think this is Abhidhamma stuff. (I don't like to go by the Abhidhamma.) That's where he got it, I think.
But how should we practice mindfulness of Feeling? My guess is we should simply be aware of our feelings, whether they are pleasant, neutral, or unpleasant. That's what the Mahasatipatthana sutta says--DN22. This is my understanding. What do you think?
PS - As you can see I'm having trouble doing quotes. I'll post something on this. I bet I'm not the only one having trouble.
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I got it from a Gunaratana book, "the 4 Foundations of Mindfulness in plain English". I think this is Abhidhamma stuff. (I don't like to go by it.) That's where he got it. I'll check the suttas, Mahasatipattana sutta --DN22
The thing to know about Gunaratana and most other Theravadans is they all looked to the Vissudhimagga, and the authors of that were looking at the Abhidhamma, therefore it is nonsense. Just stick to the suttas when studying Buddhism.
But how should we practice mindfulness of Feeling? My guess is we should simply be aware of our feelings, whether they are pleasant, neutral, or unpleasant. That's what the Mahasatipattana sutta --DN22--says. This is my interpretation. What do you think?
As I said above, the world view of the Magadan people of the time period of Siddhartha Gautama was radically different than the 21st century English speaking people. So, we need to not just literally translate the suttas, but also make them fit our world-view.
So to me the 7th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path (samma-sati) is all about the practice of meditation and mindful self-awareness. So, we have been discussing the practice of meditation and mindful self-awareness. So stick with that, and read as many translations of the suttas as you can find, and maybe purchase as many Pali to English dictionaries as you can find and look up key Pali terms. Just as a Christian contemplative is aided by reading as many translations of the bible and gospels as they can find, as well as looking up key Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek terms as they can find, and invest in as many Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek to English dictionaries as they can find.
Anyone who scrutinizes any religious literature will find so many gross errors in their translation to know that religious literature is funded by organizations that are competing with each other over donation dollars, while building up the nobility and the hegemonic leadership.
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So to me the 7th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path (samma-sati) is all about the practice of meditation and mindful self-awareness. So, we have been discussing the practice of meditation and mindful self-awareness. So stick with that
I get what your saying. But it seems when we go into the Mahasatipathana sutta - DN22, it goes into more detail:
The sixteen factors for the practice of meditation are:
The six factors of the mind in all activities [the 3 unwholsome roots/and their opposites]:
1) a mind with desire [passion] / a mind without desire
2) a mind with aversion / a mind without aversion
3) a mind with delusion / a mind without delusion
Ten Factors of Meditation Practice:
4) a constricted mind [sloth & drowsiness] / a scattered mind [distracted by pleasing sensations, restlessness, remorse, passion, aversion, delusion]
5) an enlarged (developed) mind [exalted state - the brahma-viharas] / an unenlarged mind
6) a surpassed mind [sense-sphere and the form-sphere] / an unsurpassed mind [consciousness -- pertaining to the formless sphere.]
7) a concentrated mind [jhana or absorption concentration] / an unconcentrated mind [consciousness that is scattered and unfocused]
8)a released mind [free from defilements temporarily] / an unreleased mind[not free from defilements]
Note: ... you are not simply to watch passively as any of these sixteen mind states arise willy-nilly. Instead, you use these pairs of contemplations to keep in mind the issues relevant to bringing the mind to concentration. -- Thanissaro
So, should be concerned with all these details?
And finally, the fourth factor of 'right mindfulness' is 'mindful contemplation of mind objects', which are the contemplations of the five dhammas:.
1) Five Hindrances
2) Five Aggregates
3) Six sense basis
4) Seven Factors of enlightenment (most important)
5) Four Noble Truths
So, is this right?
How, when, were do we contemplate the five dhammas in our daily practice inside and outside of meditation?
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I get what your saying. But it seems when we go into the Mahasatipathana sutta - DN22, it goes into more detail:
Correct, the Mahasatipathana sutta - DN22 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/mahasatipatthanasutta.htm), is the 'maha' greater 'sutta' discourse on 'pathana' four paths to 'sati' mindfulness and self awareness.
The other three discourses on 'sati' mindfulness and self awareness (anapanasati sutta MN-118 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/anapanasatisutta.htm), satipathana sutta MN 10 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/satipatthanasutta.htm), and gayagati-sati sutta MN-119 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/kayagatasati.htm)) are larger discourses focused upon aspects of the larger picture of mindfulness and self awareness.
The sixteen factors of mindful self-awareness and the practice of meditation are:
The six factors of the mind in all activities [the 3 unwholsome roots/and their opposites]:
1) a mind with desire [passion] / a mind without desire
2) a mind with aversion / a mind without aversion
3) a mind with delusion / a mind without delusion
Ten Factors of Meditation Practice:
4) a constricted mind [sloth & drowsiness] / a scattered mind [distracted by pleasing sensations, restlessness, remorse, passion, aversion, delusion]
5) an enlarged (developed) mind [exalted state - the brahma-viharas] / an unenlarged mind
6) a surpassed mind [sense-sphere and the form-sphere] / an unsurpassed mind [consciousness -- pertaining to the formless sphere.]
7) a concentrated mind [jhana or absorption concentration] / an unconcentrated mind [consciousness that is scattered and unfocused]
8 ) a released mind [free from defilements temporarily] / an unreleased mind[not free from defilements]
Note: ... you are not simply to watch passively as any of these sixteen mind states arise willy-nilly. Instead, you use these pairs of contemplations to keep in mind the issues relevant to bringing the mind to concentration. -- Thanissaro
Note that Thanissaro mis-translated (7) as "concentrated mind." When it should be 'religious experience' or 'ecstasy', or 'ecstatic mind.'
Also, (8 ) is most probably better translated as 'liberated' mind. And, it is doubtful that the sutta states 'temporarily'.
These flaws in translation are examples of classic Theravadan dogma.
So, should be concerned with all these details?
And finally, the fourth factor of 'right mindfulness' is 'mindful contemplation of mind objects', which are the contemplations of the five dhammas:.
1) Five Hindrances
2) Five Aggregates
3) Six sense basis
4) Seven Factors of enlightenment (most important)
5) Four Noble Truths
So, is this right?
How, when, were do we contemplate the five dhammas in our daily practice inside and outside of meditation?
It is not that we need to engage the mind in an analytical manor in every moment. If we do, then we will never still the mind. It is being mindfully self-aware in the details of our subjective life, but doing so can be done with a still mind, and does not require activating the mind in cognitive analysis.
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The four factors of 'right effort" are:
1) to prevent unwholesome states from arising (the five hindrances/the ten defilements, and the thoughts, emotions, and intentions derived from them)
2) to abandon unwholesome states that have arisen (the five hindrances/the ten defilements)
3) to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen (serenity and insight, Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Eightfold Path, etc. -- especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment which lead to jhana)
(4) to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen
What are the important things that one should understand about these?
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To be mindfully self-aware in every moment, to endeavor to still the mind in every moment, and when an unwholesome state arises, then replace it with a wholesome state. Please see my comment to PJ under Metta Meditation (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php?topic=558.msg1719#new).
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Posted by: Jhanananda
« on: Today at 05:31:57 AM » Insert Quote
To be mindfully self-aware in every moment, to endeavor to still the mind in every moment, and when an unwholesome state arises, then replace it with a wholesome state. Please see my comment to PJ under Metta Meditation.
This is really interesting. What you are saying, in your response to PJ, is that the brahma-viharas are wholesome states, that one should arouse them throughout the day, not as a meditation practice, but to replace negative or unwholesome states of mind that may arise. As you say, it's like changing stations on a radio.
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Please see my reply under Metta Meditation (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php?topic=558.msg1724#new).
I have been working for a week on my old van and I still do not have its problems resolved, but I am now in the process of reassembling it, so I may not be back on line until Stu and I are done in retreat. I do not know how long that will be, but I expect I will at the least come into town to get more ice in 5-7 days, and I hope to be able to check in then.
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Jhananda:
Another of the common delusions in mainstream Buddhism is we have to engage in all kinds of mental exercises to get to enlightenment, which probably explains why there has not been a Buddha in Buddhism in 26 centuries. The thing to keep in mind is the whole of the Noble Eightfold Path points to jhana. So, just use as much of the Noble Eightfold Path as you need to get to jhana and traverse all 8 stages of samadhi.
So, the reason why there are all of those meditation and mindfulness exercises (sati) is because some people need to work at it harder than others. So, get to jhana, however you can. If you need to do all of the sati mindfulness exercises, then do them, but if you do not, then just get to jhana during each meditation session and stay there saturating yourself in its depths.
I was just reviewing this post on the eightfold path, and what you say here, about the practice, is really very brilliant. It strikes me as the very best kind of advice. Thank-you.
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You are welcome
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The 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path usually mentions just the first four jhanas. Why aren't the other four jhanas, that is the immaterial jhanas, not included in the 8th fold? My guess as to why they are not included is because mastery of the first four jhanas is sufficient to become enlightened. Is this the case?
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Not precisely. To be more precise the first 4 stages of samadhi are called "jhana" in the suttas. The last 4 stages of samadhi are called "ayatana."
The story of the Buddha's enlightenment is in MN 26 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/2Majjhima-Nikaya/Majjhima1/026-ariyapariyesana-sutta-e1.htm) and 36 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/mahaasaccakasutta.htm). In those suttas we find that Siddhartha Gautama mastered the upper 4 stages of samadhi under his 2 teacher Uddaka Ramaputa, and Alara Kalama; however, he found his suffering (dukkha) had not been relieved, so he left his teachers and wandered and meditated.
After sometime of wandering and meditating Siddhartha Gautama sat under the bo tree and recalled a time when he was boy and he meditated under a rose apple tree, and he then experienced the first jhana. That recollection apparently triggered for him the experience of the first jhana again. He found the bliss and joy compelling and it gave him the insight to go further. That night he traversed the 4 jhanas, after which he claimed he was enlightened.
He at no time rejected the upper 4 stages of samadhi, called "ayatana." In fact MN 26 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/2Majjhima-Nikaya/Majjhima1/026-ariyapariyesana-sutta-e1.htm) he stated that all 8 stages of samadhi are required to attain full liberation. However, the definition of the 4 jhanas includes freedom from the unwholesome states at the level of an arahat. And, this has been my experience.
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Jhananda:
In fact MN 26 he stated that all 8 stages of samadhi are required to attain full liberation. However, the definition of the 4 jhanas includes freedom from the unwholesome states at the level of an arahat. And, this has been my experience.
Interesting. Why did he think all eight were a requirement for liberation and not just the first 4 jhanas?
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Interesting. Why did he think all eight were a requirement for liberation and not just the first 4 jhanas?
There are two primary suttic sources to answer your question:
The Noble Search
Ariyapariyesana Sutta (MN 26.28) (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/sutta/majjhima/mn026-tb0.html)
Translated from the Pali by Jhananda 11-02-06
"Monks, there are these five strings of sensuality. Which five? Forms cognizable via the eye — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Sounds cognizable via the ear — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Aromas cognizable via the nose — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Tastes cognizable via the tongue — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Tactile sensations cognizable via the body — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. These are the five strings of sensuality.
(1st Jhana)
"Suppose that a wild deer is living in a wilderness glen. Carefree it walks, carefree it stands, carefree it sits, carefree it lies down. Why is that? Because it has gone beyond the hunter's range. In the same way, a seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) renounces (vivicceva) sensuality (kàmehi), renounces unwholesome mental states and beliefs (akusalehi dhammehi) with applied and sustained attention (savitakkaü savicàraü) and bliss and joy (pãtisukhaü) one resides (viharati) in the clarity (upasampajja) of the first ecstasy (pañhamaü jhànaü). This seeker of Buddhahood is said to have blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara. Trackless (apadaü), he has destroyed Mara's vision (màracakkhuü) and has become invisible (adassanaü) to the Evil One (pàpimato).
(2nd Jhana)
"Then again seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), originating from (ekodibhàvaü) applied and sustained attention (vitakkavicàrànaü) with clear intention (våpasamà) and a noble tranquil mind (sampasàdanaü cetaso), and in the absence of applied and sustained attention (avitakkaü avicàraü) with absorption (samàdhijaü) in bliss and joy (pãtisukhaü), one resides (viharati) in the clarity (upasampajja) of the second ecstasy (dutiyaü jhànaü). This seeker of Buddhahood is said to have blinded Mara. Trackless, he has destroyed Mara's vision and has become invisible to the Evil One.
(3rd Jhana)
"Then again seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), Residing in (viharati) bliss (Pãtiyà), dispassion (viràgà) and equanimity (upekkhako); and with a luminous (sampajàno) joy-filled body (sukha°Ëca kàyena) a noble one (ariya) proclaims a joyful abiding (sukhavihàrãti) in the equanimity (upekkhako) and mindfulness (satimà) and clarity (upasampajja) of the third ecstasy (jhana). seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) is said to have blinded Mara. Trackless, he has destroyed Mara's vision and has become invisible to the Evil One.
(4th Jhana)
"Then again seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), with the abandoning (pahànà) of pleasure (sukhassa) and anxiety (dukkhassa); and the earlier abandoning (pahànà pubbeva) of manic-depression (somanassadomanassànaü), agitation (atthaïgamà), suffering and unhappiness (adukkhamasukhaü); one arrives at (viharati) the clarity (upasampajja) and complete purity of mindful equanimity (upekkhàsatipàrisuddhiü) of the fourth ecstasy (catutthaü jhànaü). This, seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave), is said to have blinded Mara. Trackless, he has destroyed Mara's vision and has become invisible to the Evil One.
The Immaterial attainments
These are equivalent to Nirvikalpa samadhi
Fifth Samadhi or First Arupa Samadhi
Astral plane (àkàsànañcàyatanaü)
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), with complete (Sabbaso) transcendence of perceptions of the physical domain (råpasaññànaü), passing beyond (samatikkama) the rapacious material world (pañighasaññànaü), extinguishing (atthagamà) the variety of sensory perceptions (nànattasaññànaü), without the endless pull of mental activity (amanasikàrà ananto àkàsoti), one travels within (upasampajja viharati) the astral plane (àkàsànañcàyatanaü). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato).
Sixth Samadhi or Second Arupa Samadhi
the domain of volition, Vinnananaacayatana
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), with completely (Sabbaso) passing beyond (samatikkama) the astral plane (àkàsànañcàyatanaü), approaching (upasampajja) unbound (anantaü) volition (viññàõanti), one traverses (viharati) the domain of volition (viññàõañcàyatanaü). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato).
Seventh Samadhi or Third Arupa Samadhi
domain of no evil, Akincannayatana
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), completely (Sabbaso) passing beyond (samatikkama) the domain of volition (viññàõañcàyatanaü) free of evil (natthi kiñcãti) one traverses (viharati) the domain of no evil (àkiñcaññàyatanaü). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato).
Eighth Samadhi or Fourth Arupa Samadhi
Domain of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, Nevasannanasannnayatana
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), completely (Sabbaso) passing beyond (samatikkama) the domain of no evil (àkiñcaññàyatanaü) near to (upasampajja) limitless (anantaü) volition (viññàõanti) one traverses (viharati) the domain of neither-perception-nor-non-perception (nevasaññànàsaññàyatanaü). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato).
Liberation (nirodha) through Samadhi
Cessation, saññá-vedayita-nirodha, Nibanna
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), completely (Sabbaso) passing beyond the domain of neither-perception-nor-non-perception (nevasaññànàsaññàyatanaü) to complete liberation from sensory perception (saññàvedayitanirodhaü), residing (viharati) within wisdom, having understood his taints through investigation (upasampajja). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato). Having crossed over, he is unattached in the world. Carefree he walks, carefree he stands, carefree he sits, carefree he lies down. Why is that? Because he has gone beyond the Evil One's range."
Liberation (vimokkha) in the suttas is not just one thing. It turns out that there are 8 levels of Liberation in the suttas. The concept of 8 liberations (attha vimokkha), occurs frequently in the canon (D. 15.34, 16, M. 43.26 A. VIII, 66 etc.). They typically read as follows and you will see they include samadhis 2-9:
Maha-nidana Sutta (DN-15) (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/mahanidanasutta.htm)
"Ananda, there are these eight liberations. Which eight?
42. "Aññha kho ime ànanda vimokkhà. Katame aññha:
(1) "Through meditation upon the body, one gains wisdom through material phenomena. This is the first liberation. (2nd jhana)”
Råpã råpàni passati. Ayaü pañhamo vimokkho.
(2) "Through meditation upon the body one transcends the material senses and perceives the non-material: this is the 2nd liberation. (3rd jhana)
Ajjhattaü aråpasa¤¤ãbahiddhà råpàni passati. Ayaü dutiyo vimokkho.
(3) "Through superior practice one attains a higher deliverance. This is the third liberation. (4th jhana)
subhanteva adhimutto hoti. Ayaü tatiyo vimokkho.
(4) "With the complete transcending of the physical senses, with the disappearance of resistance, and not heeding various perceptions, perceiving 'Infinite space' one resides in the dimension of the infinite space (àkàsàna¤càyatanaü). This is the fourth liberation. (5th samadhi)
Sabbaso råpasa¤¤ànaü samatikkamà pañighasa¤¤ànaü atthaïgamà nànattasa¤¤ànaü amanasikàrà 'ananto àkàso'ti àkàsàna¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü catuttho vimokkho.
(5) "With the transcendence of the dimension of the infinite space, one becomes aware of 'Infinite consciousness (viññánañcáyatana),' one resides in the dimension of 'Infinite consciousness. This is the fifth liberation. (6th samadhi)
Sabbaso àkàsàna¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'anantaü vi¤¤àõa'nti vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü pa¤camo vimokkho.
(6) "With the complete transcending of the dimension of infinite consciousness, and with the attention upon the ‘emptiness of space’ one resides in the dimension of nothingness (ákiñeaññáyatana). This is the sixth liberation. (7th samadhi)
Sabbaso vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'natthi ki¤cã'ti àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü chaññho vimokkho,
(7) "With the complete transcendence of the dimension of nothingness, one enters and remains in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception perception (n'eva-saññá-násaññáyatana). This is the seventh liberation. (8th samadhi)
Sabbaso àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü sattamo vimokkho.
(8] "With the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, one enters and remains in the cessation of perception and sensation (sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü). This is the eighth liberation. (nibbana)
Sabbaso nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü aññhamo vimokkho.
These, Ananda, are the 8 kinds of liberation."
Ime kho ànanda, aññha vimokkhà.
In conclusion, according to Siddhartha Gautama all 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi) defined the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path, and were required for full liberation (saññá-vedayita-nirodha).
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In those suttas we find that Siddhartha Gautama mastered the upper 4 stages of samadhi under his 2 teacher Uddaka Ramaputa, and Alara Kalama; however, he found his suffering (dukkha) had not been relieved, so he left his teachers and wandered and meditated.
I always thought this was bizarre. How could he have had experiences of the formless jhanas, without having mastered the material ones? It's always made me think that these suttas were written wrong. His two teachers (I have always thought) were something like your nemeses, Leigh Brasington et al, and maybe taught him some mental projection as samadhi. Then he realized that "samadhi" had to be self-arising.
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I always thought this was bizarre. How could he have had experiences of the formless jhanas, without having mastered the material ones?
If we examine the OOBE movement we find a lot of people at least claiming that they are experiencing OOBEs; whereas, many of those who claim that attainment are not even contemplatives, let alone self-aware. So, it is possible to develop the immaterial attainments (aka OOBEs) without cultivating the 4 lower stages of the religious experience.
It's always made me think that these suttas were written wrong. His two teachers (I have always thought) were something like your nemeses, Leigh Brasington et al, and maybe taught him some mental projection as samadhi. Then he realized that "samadhi" had to be self-arising.
Well, it is certainly possible, but then there is the 7th fetter, Craving for immaterial or formless existence arupa-raga. What is that, if it is not seeking OOBEs without developing the 4 lower stages of the religious experience?
Speaking of Leigh, I recently bumped into one of his web pages where he defines the 4 jhanas. It sure sounded a great deal like my definition. So, is it plagiarism, or is have finally having some deep meditation experiences?
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Jhananda:
In conclusion, according to Siddhartha Gautama all 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi) defined the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path, and were required for full liberation (saññá-vedayita-nirodha).
Jhananda: However, the definition of the 4 jhanas includes freedom from the unwholesome states at the level of an arahat. And, this has been my experience.
It is interesting that you find that the first 4 Jhanas by definition lead to full liberation by overcoming the unwholesome states, the ten fetters. Is this in the suttas?
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It is interesting that you find that the first 4 Jhanas by definition lead to full liberation by overcoming the unwholesome states, the ten fetters. Is this in the suttas?
Well, to be more precise, I did not say the mastering of the 4 jhanas leads to full liberation. They lead to arahatship, which is not full liberation, but the overcoming of the unwholesome states.
Yes, this is in the suttas, if you examine the definition in the suttas of the 4 jhanas, then examine the suttic definition of the four stages of attainment, then you will see that the four jhanas map onto the four stages of attainment, which we have discussed here before. Most notably, the 4 Noble Truths are all about freedom from suffering, and the 4th jhana is defined by adukkha, which means freedom from suffering. However, for full liberation (saññá-vedayita-nirodha, nibbana), one needs to master all 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi).
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Below is a draft of the N8P, with amendments as discussed up-thread with Jhananda. I've made some minor changes. I've tried to make it as clear as possible. Could you please offer your critique?
I keep a copy of the N8P in view at all times to see if I'm practicing properly. I think that in the early stages of one's practice, one should read the whole thing, and reflect on its meaning, like a prayer every morning, in order to keep it in mind throughout the day, until it becomes second nature.
In my opinion, after looking at the N8P, and the 37 Swift Philosophies to Awakening, I came to the conclusion that the N8P contains all of the factors of the 37 Swift Philosophies to Awakening. So, I think that if you are practicing the N8P to it's fruition, then you are also doing all the factors of the 37 Swift Philosophies. The N8P is all you need to practice in order to achieve awakening. I'm going out on a limb when I say this. But do you think that there might be some validity to this idea?
NOTE: For a detailed discussion of the "37 Swift Philosophies to Awakening", see "The Means to Enlightenment: Seven Sets" of Thirty-seven Qualities" , here:
http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,578.0.html
The Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga)
1. Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi)
Mundane: Intellectual understanding that accords with the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the Three Marks of Existence, and Siddhartha Gautama's Dhamma
Supramundane: Intuitive, deep, penetrating knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the Three Marks of Existence, and Siddhartha Gautama's Dhamma; this knowledge arises as the fruit (phala) of experiencing the jhanas.
In summary, Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi) of the Dhamma is the supramundane view that the entire Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path points to jhana as the doorway to liberation (vimokha) from suffering (dukkha) and enlightenment (nibanna).
2. Right Intention/Thinking/Resolve/Understanding (sammá-sankappa)
Mundane:
1) Discipline - reducing craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Aspiring to Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Aspiring to Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
Supramundane: (the attainment of jhana burns away the cravings so that we can genuinely manifest Renunciation, Good will and Harmlessness)
1) Renunciation - to abandon craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
3. Right Speech (sammá-vácá)
Mundane:
1) abstaining from false speech; and from expressing a false understanding of the Dhamma
2) abstaining from slanderous speech
3) abstaining from harsh speech
4) abstaining from idle chatter.
Supramundane:
1) truth speech; and expressing a true understanding of the Dhamma
2) generous speech
3) kind speech
4) teaching a supramundane Dhamma.
4. Right Action (sammá-kammanta) –
Mundane: abstaining from killing, stealing and sexual misconduct
Supramundane: being kind, generous, and inspiring others to lead a wholesome/righteous/spiritual/contemplative life
5. Right Livelihood/Lifestyle (sammá-ájíva)
Mundane: abstaining from dishonest and harmful means of livelihood
Supramundane: leading a lifestyle suitable for a contemplative life that nurtures the development of the jhana meditation states
6. Right Effort (samma-vayama)
Mundane:
1) to prevent unwholesome states from arising (the Five Hindrances/the Ten Defilements/the Seven Deadly Sins, and the thoughts, emotions, and intentions derived from them)
2) to abandon unwholesome states that have arisen (the Five Hindrances/the Ten Defilements/Seven Deadly Sins)
Supramundane:
1) to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen: serenity, equanimity, the Brahma-Viharas, and insight (the Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Eightfold Path, etc. -- especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment leading to jhana)
2) to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen (which all implies the cultivation of the 4 jhanas)
7. Right Mindfulness and self-awareness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral (the triggers for the three unwholesome roots)
3) Mindful contemplation of mind-states (citta) moods - the Six Unwholesome and Wholesome Roots: greed, aversion, and delusion, and their opposites: generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom
4) Mindful contemplation/Investigation of the dhammas (dhammas) - The Five Categories of Dhammas: the Five Hindrances, the Five Aggregates, the Six-sense Bases, the Seven Factors of Enlightenment, the Four Noble Truths
8. Right Religious Experience (samma-samadhi) – Four levels of Jhana or Meditative Absorptions
1) First Jhana: The first ecstasy (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal, accompanied by applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára).
2) Second Jhana: With the stilling of applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára), one enters and remains in the second ecstasy (jhana): joy (sukha) and bliss (piiti) born of tranquility, unification of awareness free from applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára) with internal assurance.
3) Third Jhana: With the fading of joy one remains in equanimity, aware and alert, physically sensitive to bliss (piiti). One enters and remains in the third ecstasy (jhana), of which the Noble Ones declare, 'equanimous and aware, one has a pleasurable abiding'.
4) Fourth Jhana: With the abandoning of grasping and aversion for pleasure and pain (sukha and dukkha) -- as with the earlier disappearance of pleasure and pain -- one enters and remains in the fourth ecstasy (jhana): purity of equanimity and awareness, with neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right meditation."
Note:
- the first two path factors comprise the 'Wisdom Group' (pañña)
- the 3rd, 4th and 5th path factors comprise the 'Virtue Group' (sila):
- the 6th,7th and 8th path factors comprise the 'Religious Experience Group' (samadhi)
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Below is a draft of the N8P, with amendments as discussed up-thread with Jhananda. I've made some minor changes. I've tried to make it as clear as possible. Could you please offer your critique?
I keep a copy of the N8P in view at all times to see if I'm practicing properly. I think that in the early stages of one's practice, one should read the whole thing, and reflect on its meaning, like a prayer every morning, in order to keep it in mind throughout the day, until it becomes second nature.
I believe it is skillful means to keep honing one's understanding of the contemplative life, and the Noble Eightfold Path seems like a fairly good description of the contemplative life. Keeping a copy of it handy also seems like a good idea.
In my opinion, after looking at the N8P, and the 37 Swift Philosophies to Awakening,
After some reflection upon the name, I think it is better to called it the "37 Philosophies that lead to a Swift Awakening."
I came to the conclusion that the N8P contains all of the factors of the 37 Swift Philosophies to Awakening. So, I think that if you are practicing the N8P to it's fruition, then you are also doing all the factors of the 37 Swift Philosophies. The N8P is all you need to practice in order to achieve awakening. I'm going out on a limb when I say this. But do you think that there might be some validity to this idea?
I agree that the N8P sums it all up in a concise manner.
NOTE: For a detailed discussion of the "37 Swift Philosophies to Awakening", see "The Means to Enlightenment: Seven Sets" of Thirty-seven Qualities" , here:
http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,578.0.html
The Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga)
It might be worth pointing out that the Pali/Sanskrit hybrid 'ariya-magga' means the "Aryan Path." Here it is also worth pointing out that there was an Arian version of Christianity which pre-dated the Greco-Roman version, called Arianism. Arianism essentially rejected the Jesus is God premise of Greco-Roman Christianity. I happen to consider that Arianism, or Aryan Christianity is closer to the real story of the life and teachings of Jesus the Nazarite.
1. Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi)
Mundane: Intellectual understanding that accords with the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the Three Marks of Existence, and Siddhartha Gautama's Dhamma
Supramundane: Intuitive, deep, penetrating knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the Three Marks of Existence, and Siddhartha Gautama's Dhamma; this knowledge arises as the fruit (phala) of experiencing the jhanas.
In summary, Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi) of the Dhamma is the supramundane view that the entire Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path points to jhana as the doorway to liberation (vimokha) from suffering (dukkha) and enlightenment (nibanna).
2. Right Intention/Thinking/Resolve/Understanding (sammá-sankappa)
Mundane:
1) Discipline - reducing craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Aspiring to Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Aspiring to Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
Supramundane: (the attainment of jhana burns away the cravings so that we can genuinely manifest Renunciation, Good will and Harmlessness)
1) Renunciation - to abandon craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
3. Right Speech (sammá-vácá)
Mundane:
1) abstaining from false speech; and from expressing a false understanding of the Dhamma
2) abstaining from slanderous speech
3) abstaining from harsh speech
4) abstaining from idle chatter.
Supramundane:
1) truth speech; and expressing a true understanding of the Dhamma
2) generous speech
3) kind speech
4) teaching a supramundane Dhamma.
4. Right Action (sammá-kammanta) –
Mundane: abstaining from killing, stealing and sexual misconduct
Supramundane: being kind, generous, and inspiring others to lead a wholesome/righteous/spiritual/contemplative life
5. Right Livelihood/Lifestyle (sammá-ájíva)
Mundane: abstaining from dishonest and harmful means of livelihood
Supramundane: leading a lifestyle suitable for a contemplative life that nurtures the development of the jhana meditation states
6. Right Effort (samma-vayama)
Mundane:
1) to prevent unwholesome states from arising (the Five Hindrances/the Ten Defilements/the Seven Deadly Sins, and the thoughts, emotions, and intentions derived from them)
2) to abandon unwholesome states that have arisen (the Five Hindrances/the Ten Defilements/Seven Deadly Sins)
Supramundane:
1) to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen: serenity, equanimity, the Brahma-Viharas, and insight (the Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Eightfold Path, etc. -- especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment leading to jhana)
2) to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen (which all implies the cultivation of the 4 jhanas)
7. Right Mindfulness and self-awareness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral (the triggers for the three unwholesome roots)[/quote]
I believe for the sake of clear language we need to make sure that people know that vedana is about the physical sensory domain.
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling-sensations (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral (the triggers for the three unwholesome roots)
3) Mindful contemplation of mind-states (citta) moods - the Six Unwholesome and Wholesome Roots: greed, aversion, and delusion, and their opposites: generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom
4) Mindful contemplation/Investigation of the dhammas (dhammas) - The Five Categories of Dhammas: the Five Hindrances, the Five Aggregates, the Six-sense Bases, the Seven Factors of Enlightenment, the Four Noble Truths
8. Right Religious Experience (samma-samadhi) – Four levels of Jhana or Meditative Absorptions
1) First Jhana: The first ecstasy (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal, accompanied by applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára).
2) Second Jhana: With the stilling of applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára), one enters and remains in the second ecstasy (jhana): joy (sukha) and bliss (piiti) born of tranquility, unification of awareness free from applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára) with internal assurance.
3) Third Jhana: With the fading of joy one remains in equanimity, aware and alert, physically sensitive to bliss (piiti). One enters and remains in the third ecstasy (jhana), of which the Noble Ones declare, 'equanimous and aware, one has a pleasurable abiding'.
4) Fourth Jhana: With the abandoning of grasping and aversion for pleasure and pain (sukha and dukkha) -- as with the earlier disappearance of pleasure and pain -- one enters and remains in the fourth ecstasy (jhana): purity of equanimity and awareness, with neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right meditation."
The phrase is actually asukha m adukkha (asukha and adukkha), I believe this this is more about the manic tendencies that we all have, of the roller coaster emotional ride, but some translators take it as "no joy and no suffering."
Note:
- the first two path factors comprise the 'Wisdom Group' (pañña)
- the 3rd, 4th and 5th path factors comprise the 'Virtue Group' (sila):
- the 6th,7th and 8th path factors comprise the 'Religious Experience Group' (samadhi)
Ok, it looks good, but the 7 factors of enlightenment really do require listing.
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Thank-you for your comments, Jhananda. I am so very happy with the clarity, and simplicity of your explanations. Generally speaking, not just on this topic, I actually understand what you are teaching; you are by far the best teacher of the Dhamma I've come across. I can't say the same for Bodhi, Thanissaro, and all the other Theravadins. These guys are surely destined for a rebirth in a lower realm for making the Dhamma, and their commentaries very difficult to understand, and forcing people to depend on them to decipher the whole catastrophic mess. It's almost unforgivable. The people who accept and support their teachings have not done their homework.
It is really good to know that the 8FP is really all one needs to know for the practice, and that it is similar to the '37 Philosophies Leading to a Swift Awakening.' Should one just ignore the 37 Philosophies and focus solely on the 8FP? The arrangement of the 37 sets confuses me; but the arrangement of the N8P makes total sense to me. You mentioned elsewhere that the 37 sets were an attempt to summarise the teachings. This is quite interesting. Why didn't Siddhartha Gautama just teach the N8P?
So, I've incorporated all your amendments [in bold italics] below. I hope that it is good enough for people to understand. We can work on improving it the future to make it clearer, to fine hone it. Please take a close look at the 7 factors of enlightenment, under Right Effort. It's based on our previous discussion of the enlightenment factors under a separate post.
The Noble Eightfold Path/The Aryan Path (ariya-magga)
1. Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi)
Mundane: Intellectual understanding that accords with the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the Three Marks of Existence, and Siddhartha Gautama's Dhamma
Supramundane: Intuitive, deep, penetrating knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the Three Marks of Existence, and Siddhartha Gautama's Dhamma; this knowledge arises as the fruit (phala) of experiencing the jhanas.
In summary, Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi) of the Dhamma is the supramundane view that the entire Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path points to jhana as the doorway to liberation (vimokha) from suffering (dukkha) and enlightenment (nibanna).
2. Right Intention/Thinking/Resolve/Understanding (sammá-sankappa)
Mundane:
1) Discipline - reducing craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Aspiring to Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Aspiring to Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
Supramundane: (the attainment of jhana burns away the cravings so that we can genuinely manifest Renunciation, Good will and Harmlessness)
1) Renunciation - to abandon craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
3. Right Speech (sammá-vácá)
Mundane:
1) abstaining from false speech; and from expressing a false understanding of the Dhamma
2) abstaining from slanderous speech
3) abstaining from harsh speech
4) abstaining from idle chatter.
Supramundane:
1) truth speech; and expressing a true understanding of the Dhamma
2) generous speech
3) kind speech
4) teaching a supramundane Dhamma.
4. Right Action (sammá-kammanta) –
Mundane: abstaining from killing, stealing and sexual misconduct
Supramundane: being kind, generous, and inspiring others to lead a wholesome/righteous/spiritual/contemplative life
5. Right Livelihood/Lifestyle (sammá-ájíva)
Mundane: abstaining from dishonest and harmful means of livelihood
Supramundane: leading a lifestyle suitable for a contemplative life that nurtures the development of the jhana meditation states
6. Right Effort (samma-vayama)
Mundane:
1) to prevent unwholesome states from arising (the Five Hindrances/the Ten Defilements/the Seven Deadly Sins, and the thoughts, emotions, and intentions derived from them)
2) to abandon unwholesome states that have arisen (the Five Hindrances/the Ten Defilements/Seven Deadly Sins)
Supramundane:
1) to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen: serenity, equanimity, the Brahma-Viharas, and insight (the Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Eightfold Path, etc. -- especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment leading to jhana:
The Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga) according to Jhananda:
1. Mindfulness (sati) 'Sati' is not just mindful. It is also self-awareness and the practice of meditation; and it is the 7th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path.
2. Investigation (dhamma vicaya) 'Dhamma vicaya' is not just investigation. Dhamma means beliefs and philosophy; it really is unpacking our belief systems and philosophy, at the root of which is critical thinking.
3. Energy (viriya) 'Viriya' is not just energy, it is also the raising of the kundalini, which is a charismatic phenomena of profound energy. It is virtue in English.
4. Bliss (piiti) I prefer to translate 'piiti' as bliss, because, while joy (sukha), which is more commonly translated as piiti, is a component of the religious experience, bliss tends to take over the experience.
5. Tranquility (passaddhi) 'Passaddhi' is not just tranquility. It is also the stilling of the mind.
6. Right Religious Experience (samadhi) 'Samadi' should not be translated as 'concentration', and anyone who translates samadhi as concentration has never had the experience. Samadhi is a religious experience, which is characterized by bliss, joy and ecstasy.
7. Equanimity (upekkha) Equanimity is a deeper state of calm and stillness of the mind, which arises in the 3rd jhana.
2) to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen (which all implies the cultivation of the 4 jhanas)
7. Right Mindfulness and self-awareness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling-sensations (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral (the triggers for the three unwholesome roots)
3) Mindful contemplation of mind-states (citta) moods - the Six Unwholesome and Wholesome Roots: greed, aversion, and delusion, and their opposites: generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom
4) Mindful contemplation/Investigation of the dhammas (dhammas) - The Five Categories of Dhammas: the Five Hindrances, the Five Aggregates, the Six-sense Bases, the Seven Factors of Enlightenment, the Four Noble Truths
8. Right Religious Experience (samma-samadhi) – Four levels of Jhana or Meditative Absorptions
1) First Jhana: The first ecstasy (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal, accompanied by applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára).
2) Second Jhana: With the stilling of applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára), one enters and remains in the second ecstasy (jhana): joy (sukha) and bliss (piiti) born of tranquility, unification of awareness free from applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára) with internal assurance.
3) Third Jhana: With the fading of joy one remains in equanimity, aware and alert, physically sensitive to bliss (piiti). One enters and remains in the third ecstasy (jhana), of which the Noble Ones declare, 'equanimous and aware, one has a pleasurable abiding'.
4) Fourth Jhana: With the abandoning of grasping and aversion for pleasure and pain (asukha and adukkha) -- as with the earlier disappearance of pleasure and pain -- one enters and remains in the fourth ecstasy (jhana): purity of equanimity and awareness, with neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right meditation."
Note:
- the first two path factors comprise the 'Wisdom Group' (pañña)
- the 3rd, 4th and 5th path factors comprise the 'Virtue Group' (sila):
- the 6th,7th and 8th path factors comprise the 'Religious Experience Group' (samadhi)
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Thank-you for your comments, Jhananda. I am so very happy with the clarity, and simplicity of your explanations. Generally speaking, not just on this topic, I actually understand what you are teaching; you are by far the best teacher of the Dhamma I've come across. I can't say the same for Bodhi, Thanissaro, and all the other Theravadins. These guys are surely destined for a rebirth in a lower realm for making the Dhamma, and their commentaries very difficult to understand, and forcing people to depend on them to decipher the whole catastrophic mess. It's almost unforgivable. The people who accept and support their teachings have not done their homework.
Well, this is true of all religions. When I realized the extent of the lies that every religion supports itself with, and that I had been marginalized by the Buddhist priesthood, I was living in the Inyo National Forest, and all I could do was scream. It took me about 2 years before I could bare to return to civilization.
It is really good to know that the 8FP is really all one needs to know for the practice, and that it is similar to the '37 Philosophies Leading to a Swift Awakening.' Should one just ignore the 37 Philosophies and focus solely on the 8FP? The arrangement of the 37 sets confuses me; but the arrangement of the N8P makes total sense to me. You mentioned elsewhere that the 37 sets were an attempt to summarise the teachings. This is quite interesting. Why didn't Siddhartha Gautama just teach the N8P?
Well, he did teach the 4NT as well. Maybe we could come up with something that is clearer than the 37 sets, but better defined than the N8P, For instance the superior fruit (maha-phala) have to be on the list, as well as the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi), and the 8 liberations (ati-Vimokha).
So, I've incorporated all your amendments [in bold italics] below. I hope that it is good enough for people to understand. We can work on improving it the future to make it clearer, to fine hone it. Please take a close look at the 7 factors of enlightenment, under Right Effort. It's based on our previous discussion of the enlightenment factors under a separate post.
The Noble Eightfold Path/The Aryan Path (ariya-magga)
1. Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi)
Mundane: Intellectual understanding that accords with the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the Three Marks of Existence, and Siddhartha Gautama's Dhamma
Supramundane: Intuitive, deep, penetrating knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, kamma & rebirth, the Three Marks of Existence, and Siddhartha Gautama's Dhamma; this knowledge arises as the fruit (phala) of experiencing the jhanas.
In summary, Right View/Understanding (samma-ditthi) of the Dhamma is the supramundane view that the entire Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path points to jhana as the doorway to liberation (vimokha) from suffering (dukkha) and enlightenment (nibanna).
2. Right Intention/Thinking/Resolve/Understanding (sammá-sankappa)
Mundane:
1) Discipline - reducing craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Aspiring to Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Aspiring to Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
Supramundane: (the attainment of jhana burns away the cravings so that we can genuinely manifest Renunciation, Good will and Harmlessness)
1) Renunciation - to abandon craving and the objects to which it binds us (antidote to desire)
2) Good will - wishing all beings loving-kindness (antidote to aversion & anger and ill-will)
3) Harmlessness - compassionate thought that others be free from suffering (counters malice)
3. Right Speech (sammá-vácá)
Mundane:
1) abstaining from false speech; and from expressing a false understanding of the Dhamma
2) abstaining from slanderous speech
3) abstaining from harsh speech
4) abstaining from idle chatter.
Supramundane:
1) truth speech; and expressing a true understanding of the Dhamma
2) generous speech
3) kind speech
4) teaching a supramundane Dhamma.
4. Right Action (sammá-kammanta) –
Mundane: abstaining from killing, stealing and sexual misconduct
Supramundane: being kind, generous, and inspiring others to lead a wholesome/righteous/spiritual/contemplative life
5. Right Livelihood/Lifestyle (sammá-ájíva)
Mundane: abstaining from dishonest and harmful means of livelihood
Supramundane: leading a lifestyle suitable for a contemplative life that nurtures the development of the jhana meditation states
6. Right Effort (samma-vayama)
Mundane:
1) to prevent unwholesome states from arising (the Five Hindrances/the Ten Defilements/the Seven Deadly Sins, and the thoughts, emotions, and intentions derived from them)
2) to abandon unwholesome states that have arisen (the Five Hindrances/the Ten Defilements/Seven Deadly Sins)
Supramundane:
1) to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen: serenity, equanimity, the Brahma-Viharas, and insight (the Four Foundations of Mindfulness, the Eightfold Path, etc. -- especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment leading to jhana:
[/i][/b]2) to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen (which all implies the cultivation of the 4 jhanas)
7. Right Mindfulness and self-awareness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling-sensations (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral (the triggers for the three unwholesome roots)
3) Mindful contemplation of mind-states (citta) moods - the Six Unwholesome and Wholesome Roots: greed, aversion, and delusion, and their opposites: generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom
4) Mindful contemplation/Investigation of the dhammas (dhammas) - The Five Categories of Dhammas: the Five Hindrances, the Five Aggregates, the Six-sense Bases, the Seven Factors of Enlightenment, the Four Noble Truths
8. Right Religious Experience (samma-samadhi) – Four levels of Jhana or Meditative Absorptions
1) First Jhana: The first ecstasy (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal, accompanied by applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára).
2) Second Jhana: With the stilling of applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára), one enters and remains in the second ecstasy (jhana): joy (sukha) and bliss (piiti) born of tranquility, unification of awareness free from applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára) with internal assurance.
3) Third Jhana: With the fading of joy one remains in equanimity, aware and alert, physically sensitive to bliss (piiti). One enters and remains in the third ecstasy (jhana), of which the Noble Ones declare, 'equanimous and aware, one has a pleasurable abiding'.
4) Fourth Jhana: With the abandoning of grasping and aversion for pleasure and pain (asukha and adukkha) -- as with the earlier disappearance of pleasure and pain -- one enters and remains in the fourth ecstasy (jhana): purity of equanimity and awareness, with neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right meditation."
Note:
- the first two path factors comprise the 'Wisdom Group' (pañña)
- the 3rd, 4th and 5th path factors comprise the 'Virtue Group' (sila):
- the 6th,7th and 8th path factors comprise the 'Religious Experience Group' (samadhi)
The Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga) according to Jhananda:
1. Mindfulness (sati) 'Sati' is not just mindful. It is also self-awareness and the practice of meditation; and it is the 7th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path.
2. Investigation (dhamma vicaya) 'Dhamma vicaya' is not just investigation. Dhamma means beliefs and philosophy; therefore it really is unpacking our belief systems and philosophy, at the root of which is critical thinking.
3. Energy (viriya) 'Viriya' is not just energy, it is also the raising of the kundalini, which is a charismatic phenomena of profound energy. It is virtue in English.
4. Bliss (piiti) I prefer to translate 'piiti' as bliss, because, while joy (sukha), which is more commonly translated as piiti, is a component of the religious experience, bliss tends to take over the experience.
5. Tranquility (passaddhi) 'Passaddhi' is not just tranquility. It is also the stilling of the mind.
6. Right Religious Experience (samadhi) 'Samadhi' should not be translated as 'concentration', and anyone who translates samadhi as concentration has never had the experience. Samadhi is a religious experience, which is characterized by bliss, joy and ecstasy.
7. Equanimity (upekkha) Equanimity is a deeper state of calm and stillness of the mind, which arises in the 3rd jhana.
I am not sure why you had the Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga) under right effort, because all of the 7 factors comprise the 7th and 8th folds, and most of them are the product of the 8th fold. So, I think it should be kept separate, but tacked on so that people can see that they are the product of following the N8P.
Good work.
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Jhananda:
Maybe we could come up with something that is clearer than the 37 sets, but better defined than the N8P, For instance the superior fruit (maha-phala) have to be on the list, as well as the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi), and the 8 liberations (ati-Vimokha).
Interesting, I did not realize that one could improve on the N8P. If one can come up with a better, more clearly defined way to reach liberation, then one should go for it - whatever gets you there. But I should think that the N8P is good enough to take you all the way. I understand what the tasks are in the N8P, so I have my marching orders. But you seem to think there are possibly better approaches. If I understand correctly, what you are proposing is a more samadhi oriented approach when you mention the eight liberations, etc. Would you please elaborate on this idea?
Jhananda:
I am not sure why you had the Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga) under right effort, because all of the 7 factors comprise the 7th and 8th folds, and most of them are the product of the 8th fold. So, I think it should be kept separate, but tacked on so that people can see that they are the product of following the N8P.
I placed the Seven Factors of Enlightenment under Right Effort because the 1st task under supramundane Right Effort is "to arouse wholesome states that have not yet
arisen... -- especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment." To me, that's a smooth segue. I look it this way: path factors 6,7, and 8 of the N8P comprise the "Meditation Group." But I understand that the 7 factors of enlightenment also contain all of the factors in the 7th and 8th folds. Keeping them separate, and at the end, to show they are the end product of following the N8P, as you point out, sounds even better. We can say that the Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga) are one of the fruits (phalas) of following the N8P. That's brilliant, I like that.
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Jhananda:
Maybe we could come up with something that is clearer than the 37 sets, but better defined than the N8P, For instance the superior fruit (maha-phala) have to be on the list, as well as the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi), and the 8 liberations (ati-Vimokha).
Interesting, I did not realize that one could improve on the N8P. If one can come up with a better, more clearly defined way to reach liberation, then one should go for it - whatever gets you there. But I should think that the N8P is good enough to take you all the way. I understand what the tasks are in the N8P, so I have my marching orders. But you seem to think there are possibly better approaches. If I understand correctly, what you are proposing is a more samadhi oriented approach when you mention the eight liberations, etc. Would you please elaborate on this idea?
I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the N8P, it is just that the 7th and 8th folds have been so corrupted by the Buddhist priesthood, that without a clear definition of the 7th and 8th folds, then it is just a path of devotion to a corrupt priesthood; thus the suggestion of adding the 7FE, as well as the superior fruit, to me, clear up the confusion produced by the corrupt Buddhist priesthood.
Jhananda:
I am not sure why you had the Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga) under right effort, because all of the 7 factors comprise the 7th and 8th folds, and most of them are the product of the 8th fold. So, I think it should be kept separate, but tacked on so that people can see that they are the product of following the N8P.
I placed the Seven Factors of Enlightenment under Right Effort because the 1st task under supramundane Right Effort is "to arouse wholesome states that have not yet
arisen... -- especially to arouse the Seven Factors of Enlightenment." To me, that's a smooth segue. I look it this way: path factors 6,7, and 8 of the N8P comprise the "Meditation Group." But I understand that the 7 factors of enlightenment also contain all of the factors in the 7th and 8th folds. Keeping them separate, and at the end, to show they are the end product of following the N8P, as you point out, sounds even better. We can say that the Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga) are one of the fruits (phalas) of following the N8P. That's brilliant, I like that.
[/quote]
I am glad you like the placement I suggested. I hope it works for others.
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I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the N8P, it is just that the 7th and 8th folds have been so corrupted by the Buddhist priesthood, that without a clear definition of the 7th and 8th folds, then it is just a path of devotion to a corrupt priesthood; thus the suggestion of adding the 7FE [7 factors of enlightenment], as well as the superior fruit, to me, clear up the confusion produced by the corrupt Buddhist priesthood.
I think you're referring to the Eleven “fruits” (phala) of the contemplative life which are the Supranormal Powers (lokuttara balani) or higher types of wisdom, "knowledges," as you put it:
1 Upekkha: Equanimity
2 Fearlessness
3 Adukkha: Beyond Pain and Discomfort
4 Jhana: Meditative absorption
5 Manomaya: lit. "mind-made body" (OOB), "wields manifold supranormal powers"
6 Dibba-sota: "divine ear-element" (Clairaudience)
7 ceto-pariya-ñána: knows the awareness of other beings (mental telepathy)
8 s. patisandhi, paticca samuppada: lit. “rethinking” or "dependent origination" or recollection of manifold past lives
9 Dibba-cakkhu or cutúpapáta-ñána: lit. "Divine eye" or "sees beings passing away & re-appearing" (Clairvoyance)
10 ending of mental agitation
11 Nanadassana: lit “knowledge" (nana) and "vision" (dassana)
For a detailed essay on “fruits” (phala) of the contemplative life - see here: http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/fruit.htm
Thank-you, Jhananda, for your comments on the N8P. We now have something that people can cut and paste.
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think you're referring to the Eleven “fruits” (phala) of the contemplative life which are the Supranormal Powers (lokuttara balani) or higher types of wisdom, "knowledges," as you put it:
1 Upekkha: Equanimity
2 Fearlessness
3 Adukkha: Beyond Pain and Discomfort
4 Jhana: Meditative absorption
5 Manomaya: lit. "mind-made body" (OOB), "wields manifold supranormal powers"
6 Dibba-sota: "divine ear-element" (Clairaudience)
7 ceto-pariya-ñána: knows the awareness of other beings (mental telepathy)
8 s. patisandhi, paticca samuppada: lit. “rethinking” or "dependent origination" or recollection of manifold past lives
9 Dibba-cakkhu or cutúpapáta-ñána: lit. "Divine eye" or "sees beings passing away & re-appearing" (Clairvoyance)
10 ending of mental agitation
11 Nanadassana: lit “knowledge" (nana) and "vision" (dassana)
For a detailed essay on “fruits” (phala) of the contemplative life - see here: http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/fruit.htm
Thank-you, Jhananda, for your comments on the N8P. We now have something that people can cut and paste.
I agree. Thank-you for your work on this important subject.
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... For instance the superior fruit (maha-phala) have to be on the list, as well as the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi), and the 8 liberations (ati-Vimokha).
We forgot to add the eight liberations as one of the fruits of attainment of the N8P, as you suggested above. Maybe you'd like to tidy them up a bit. And would you explain what they mean?
The Eight Liberations (ati-Vimokha) [from the Maha-parinibbana Sutta, DN 16]
"Now there are eight liberations, Ananda. What are those eight? [33]
1. "Oneself having form, [34] one perceives forms; this is the first liberation.
2. "Being unaware of one's own form, one perceives forms external to oneself; this is the second liberation.
3. "Experiencing loveliness, one is intent upon it; [35] this is the third liberation.
4. "By utterly transcending the perceptions of matter, by the disappearance of the perceptions of sense-reaction, and by giving no attention to diversity-perceptions, one becomes aware of, attains to, and abides in the sphere of infinite space; this is the fourth liberation.
5. "By utterly transcending the sphere of infinite space, one becomes aware of, attains to, and abides in the sphere of infinite consciousness; this is the fifth liberation.
6. "By utterly transcending the sphere of infinite consciousness, one becomes aware of, attains to, and abides in the sphere of nothingness; this is the sixth liberation.
7. "By utterly transcending the sphere of nothingness, one attains to and abides in the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception; this is the seventh liberation.
8. "By utterly transcending the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, one attains to and abides in the cessation of perception and sensation; this is the eighth liberation.
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Thanks, Michel, I had missed DN-16. This is the sutta I had been going on, which I think is a better choice, but the more suttas we have that show thee 8 liberations the better:
Maha-nidana Sutta (DN-15) (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/mahanidanasutta.htm)
"Ananda, there are these eight liberations. Which eight?
42. "Aññha kho ime ànanda vimokkhà. Katame aññha:
(1) "Through meditation upon the body, one gains wisdom through material phenomena. This is the first liberation. (2nd jhana)”
Råpã råpàni passati. Ayaü pañhamo vimokkho.
(2) "Through meditation upon the body one transcends the material senses and perceives the non-material: this is the 2nd liberation. (3rd jhana)
Ajjhattaü aråpasa¤¤ãbahiddhà råpàni passati. Ayaü dutiyo vimokkho.
(3) "Through superior practice one attains a higher deliverance. This is the third liberation. (4th jhana)
subhanteva adhimutto hoti. Ayaü tatiyo vimokkho.
(4) "With the complete transcending of the physical senses, with the disappearance of resistance, and not heeding various perceptions, perceiving 'Infinite space' one resides in the dimension of the infinite space (àkàsàna¤càyatanaü). This is the fourth liberation. (5th samadhi)
Sabbaso råpasa¤¤ànaü samatikkamà pañighasa¤¤ànaü atthaïgamà nànattasa¤¤ànaü amanasikàrà 'ananto àkàso'ti àkàsàna¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü catuttho vimokkho.
(5) "With the transcendence of the dimension of the infinite space, one becomes aware of 'Infinite consciousness (viññánañcáyatana),' one resides in the dimension of 'Infinite consciousness. This is the fifth liberation. (6th samadhi)
Sabbaso àkàsàna¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'anantaü vi¤¤àõa'nti vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü pa¤camo vimokkho.
(6) "With the complete transcending of the dimension of infinite consciousness, and with the attention upon the ‘emptiness of space’ one resides in the dimension of nothingness (ákiñeaññáyatana). This is the sixth liberation. (7th samadhi)
Sabbaso vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'natthi ki¤cã'ti àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü chaññho vimokkho,
(7) "With the complete transcendence of the dimension of nothingness, one enters and remains in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception perception (n'eva-saññá-násaññáyatana). This is the seventh liberation. (8th samadhi)
Sabbaso àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü sattamo vimokkho.
(8) "With the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, one enters and remains in the cessation of perception and sensation (sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü). This is the eighth liberation. (nibbana)
Sabbaso nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü aññhamo vimokkho.
These, Ananda, are the 8 kinds of liberation."
Ime kho ànanda, aññha vimokkhà.
Dn-16 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/1Digha-Nikaya/Digha2/16-mahaparinibbana-e2.htm)
Eight Liberations
33. "Now there are eight liberations, ânanda. What are those eight? [33]
34. "Oneself having form, [34] one perceives forms; this is the first liberation.
35. "Being unaware of one's own form, one perceives forms external to oneself; this is the second liberation.
36. "Experiencing loveliness, one is intent upon it; [35] this is the third liberation.
37. "By utterly transcending the perceptions of matter, by the disappearance of the perceptions of sense-reaction, and by giving no attention to diversity-perceptions, one becomes aware of, attains to, and abides in the sphere of infinite space; this is the fourth liberation.
38. "By utterly transcending the sphere of infinite space, one becomes aware of, attains to, and abides in the sphere of infinite consciousness; this is the fifth liberation.
39. "By utterly transcending the sphere of infinite consciousness, one becomes aware of, attains to, and abides in the sphere of nothingness; this is the sixth liberation.
40. "By utterly transcending the sphere of nothingness, one attains to and abides in the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception; this is the seventh liberation.
41. "By utterly transcending the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, one attains to and abides in the cessation of perception and sensation; this is the eighth liberation.
"These, ânanda, are the eight liberations.
The eight liberations are not even in this translation http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/1Digha-Nikaya/Digha2/16-mahaparinibbana-e3-part.htm
Dn-16 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/PTS/SBE11/sbe1103.htm)
34. 'A man possessed with the idea of form sees forms--this is the first stage of deliverance.
35. 'Without the subjective idea of form, he sees forms externally-this is the second stage of deliverance.
[1. These are the Attha Vimokkhâ. Buddhaghosa has no comment upon them; merely saying, 'The passage on the Vimokkhas is easy to understand'--which is tantalizing. The last five Vimokkhas occur again below, in Chap. VI, §§ 11-13, where it is clear that they are used to express the progress through deep meditation, into absent-mindedness, abstraction, and being sunk in thought, until finally the thinker falls into actual trance.]
p. 52
36. 'With the thought "it is well," he becomes intent (upon what he sees)--this is the third stage of deliverance.
37. 'By passing quite beyond all idea of form, by putting an end to all idea of resistance, by paying no attention to the idea of distinction, he, thinking "it is all infinite space," reaches (mentally) and remains in the state of mind in which the idea of the infinity of space is the only idea that is present--this is the fourth stage of deliverance.
38. 'By passing quite beyond all idea of space being the infinite basis, he, thinking "it is all infinite reason," reaches (mentally) and remains in the state of mind to which the infinity of reason is alone present--this is the fifth stage of deliverance.
39. 'By passing quite beyond the mere consciousness of the infinity of reason, he, thinking "nothing at all exists," reaches (mentally) and remains in the state of mind to which nothing at all is specially present--this is the sixth stage of deliverance.
40. 'By passing quite beyond all idea of nothingness he reaches (mentally) and remains in the state of mind to which neither ideas nor the absence of ideas are specially present--this is the seventh stage of deliverance.
41. 'By passing quite beyond the state of "neither ideas nor the absence of ideas" he reaches (mentally) and remains in the state of mind in which both sensations and ideas have ceased to be-this is the eighth stage of deliverance.
42. 'Now these, Ânanda, are the eight stages of deliverance.
It is not in this translation of DN-16 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/sutta/digha/dn-16-tb0.html)
DN-16 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/sutta/digha/dn-16-sv0.html)
Eight Liberations
33. "Now there are eight liberations, Ananda. What are those eight? 33
34. "Oneself having form, 34 one perceives forms; this is the first liberation.
35. "Being unaware of one's own form, one perceives forms external to oneself; this is the second liberation.
36. "Experiencing loveliness, one is intent upon it; 35 this is the third liberation.
37. "By utterly transcending the perceptions of matter, by the disappearance of the perceptions of sense-reaction, and by giving no attention to diversity-perceptions, one becomes aware of, attains to, and abides in the sphere of infinite space; this is the fourth liberation.
38. "By utterly transcending the sphere of infinite space, one becomes aware of, attains to, and abides in the sphere of infinite consciousness; this is the fifth liberation.
39. "By utterly transcending the sphere of infinite consciousness, one becomes aware of, attains to, and abides in the sphere of nothingness; this is the sixth liberation.
40. "By utterly transcending the sphere of nothingness, one attains to and abides in the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception; this is the seventh liberation.
41. "By utterly transcending the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, one attains to and abides in the cessation of perception and sensation; this is the eighth liberation.
"These, Ananda, are the eight liberations.
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Maha-nidana Sutta (DN-15) (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/mahanidanasutta.htm)
"Ananda, there are these eight liberations. Which eight?
42. "Aññha kho ime ànanda vimokkhà. Katame aññha:
(1) "Through meditation upon the body, one gains wisdom through material phenomena. This is the first liberation. (2nd jhana)”
Råpã råpàni passati. Ayaü pañhamo vimokkho.
(2) "Through meditation upon the body one transcends the material senses and perceives the non-material: this is the 2nd liberation. (3rd jhana)
Ajjhattaü aråpasa¤¤ãbahiddhà råpàni passati. Ayaü dutiyo vimokkho.
(3) "Through superior practice one attains a higher deliverance. This is the third liberation. (4th jhana)
subhanteva adhimutto hoti. Ayaü tatiyo vimokkho.
You have matched up the 2nd, 3rd and 4th jhana above with the first three liberations. But you haven't mentioned the first jhana? Is this a mistake?
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You have matched up the 2nd, 3rd and 4th jhana above with the first three liberations. But you haven't mentioned the first jhana? Is this a mistake?
No, the Maha-nidana Sutta (DN-15) starts counting liberations at the 2nd jhana, and includes the sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü, which is not a stage of samadhi, but comes as a consequence of the 8 stages of samadhi.
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OK, I see. Could you please explain in your own words what each of the 8 liberations mean. I can't figure them out, possibly because I haven't attained any of these states.
Just thought I'd add Walshe's DN 16 translation of the 8 liberations into the mix:
3.33. ‘There are, Ananda, these eight liberations. What are they? Possessing form, one sees forms. That is the first. [112] Not perceiving material forms in oneself, one sees them outside. That is the second. Thinking: “It is beautiful”, one becomes intent on it. That is the third. By completely transcending all perception of matter,... thinking: “Space is infinite”, one enters and abides in the Sphere of Infinite Space. That is the fourth. By transcending the Sphere of Infinite Space, thinking: “Consciousness is infinite”, one enters and abides in the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness. That is the fifth. By transcending the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness, thinking: “There is no thingʺ, one enters and abides in the Sphere of No-Thingness. That is the sixth. By transcending the Sphere of No-Thingness, one reaches and abides in the Sphere of Neither-Perception-Nor-Non-Perception. That is the seventh. By transcending the Sphere of Neither-Perception-Nor-Non-Perception, one enters and abides in the Cessation of Perception and Feeling. That is the eighth liberation (as Sutta 15, verse 35).
Walshe, Maurice (2005-06-10). The Long Discourses of the Buddha: A Translation of the Digha Nikaya (Teachings of the Buddha) (Kindle Locations 4069-4077). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.
And thank-you, Jhananda, for providing all these various translations on the liberations. It's interesting to compare.
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Thank-you Michel for providing Walshe's translation for us to examine. Here is the Pali.
42. "Aññha kho ime ànanda vimokkhà. Katame aññha:
Råpã råpàni passati. Ayaü pañhamo vimokkho.
Ajjhattaü aråpasa¤¤ãbahiddhà råpàni passati. Ayaü dutiyo vimokkho.
[PTS Page 071] [\q 71/]
subhanteva adhimutto hoti. Ayaü tatiyo vimokkho.
Sabbaso råpasa¤¤ànaü samatikkamà pañighasa¤¤ànaü atthaïgamà nànattasa¤¤ànaü amanasikàrà 'ananto àkàso'ti àkàsàna¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü catuttho vimokkho.
Sabbaso àkàsàna¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'anantaü vi¤¤àõa'nti vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü pa¤camo vimokkho.
Sabbaso vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'natthi ki¤cã'ti àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü chaññho vimokkho,
Sabbaso àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü sattamo vimokkho.
Sabbaso nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü aññhamo vimokkho.
Ime kho ànanda, aññha vimokkhà.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/1Digha-Nikaya/Digha2/15-mahanidana-p.htm
(Aññha vimokkhà)
72. Aññha kho ime ànanda vimokkho. Katame aññha?
Råpã råpàni passati. Ayaü pañhamo vimokkho (1)
[PTS Page 112] [\q 112/]
ajjhattaü aråpasa¤¤ã bahiddhà råpàni passati. Ayaü dutiyo vimokkho. (2)
Subhanteva adhimutto hoti. Ayaü tatiyo vimokkho. (3)
Sabbaso råpasa¤¤ànaü samatikkamà pañighasa¤¤ànaü atthaïgamà nànattasa¤¤ànaü amanasikàrà 'ananto àkàso'ti àkàsàna¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü catuttho vimokkho. (4)
Sabbaso àkàsàna¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'anantaü vi¤¤àõanti' vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü pa¤camo vimokkho. (5)
[BJT Page 176] [\x 176/]
Sabbaso vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'natthi ki¤cã'ti àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü chaññho vimokkho. (6)
Sabbaso àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü sattamo vimokkho. (7)
Sabbaso nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü aññhamo vimokkho. (8)
Ime kho ànanda aññha vimokkhà.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/1Digha-Nikaya/Digha2/16-mahaparinibbana-p.htm
If you examine them they are almost identical. This is how I rendered DN-15
Translated by Jhananda
"Ananda, there are these eight liberations. Which eight?
42. "Aññha kho ime ànanda vimokkhà. Katame aññha:
(1) "Through meditation upon the body, one gains wisdom through material phenomena. This is the first liberation. (2nd jhana)”
Råpã råpàni passati. Ayaü pañhamo vimokkho.
(2) "Through meditation upon the body one transcends the material senses and perceives the non-material: this is the 2nd liberation. (3rd jhana)
Ajjhattaü aråpasa¤¤ãbahiddhà råpàni passati. Ayaü dutiyo vimokkho.
(3) "Through superior practice one attains a higher deliverance. This is the third liberation. (4th jhana)
subhanteva adhimutto hoti. Ayaü tatiyo vimokkho.
(4) "With the complete transcending of the physical senses, with the disappearance of resistance, and not heeding various perceptions, perceiving 'Infinite space' one resides in the dimension of the infinite space (àkàsàna¤càyatanaü). This is the fourth liberation. (5th samadhi)
Sabbaso råpasa¤¤ànaü samatikkamà pañighasa¤¤ànaü atthaïgamà nànattasa¤¤ànaü amanasikàrà 'ananto àkàso'ti àkàsàna¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü catuttho vimokkho.
(5) "With the transcendence of the dimension of the infinite space, one becomes aware of 'Infinite consciousness (viññánañcáyatana),' one resides in the dimension of 'Infinite consciousness. This is the fifth liberation. (6th samadhi)
Sabbaso àkàsàna¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'anantaü vi¤¤àõa'nti vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü pa¤camo vimokkho.
(6) "With the complete transcending of the dimension of infinite consciousness, and with the attention upon the ‘emptiness of space’ one resides in the dimension of nothingness (ákiñeaññáyatana). This is the sixth liberation. (7th samadhi)
Sabbaso vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'natthi ki¤cã'ti àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü chaññho vimokkho,
(7) "With the complete transcendence of the dimension of nothingness, one enters and remains in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception (n'eva-saññá-násaññáyatana). This is the seventh liberation. (8th samadhi)
Sabbaso àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü sattamo vimokkho.
(8) "With the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, one enters and remains in the cessation of perception and sensation (sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü). This is the eighth liberation. (nibbana)
Sabbaso nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü aññhamo vimokkho.
These, Ananda, are the 8 kinds of liberation."
Ime kho ànanda, aññha vimokkhà.
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Translated by Jhananda
"Ananda, there are these eight liberations. Which eight?
42. "Aññha kho ime ànanda vimokkhà. Katame aññha:
(1) "Through meditation upon the body, one gains wisdom through material phenomena. This is the first liberation. (2nd jhana)”
Råpã råpàni passati. Ayaü pañhamo vimokkho.
(2) "Through meditation upon the body one transcends the material senses and perceives the non-material: this is the 2nd liberation. (3rd jhana)
Ajjhattaü aråpasa¤¤ãbahiddhà råpàni passati. Ayaü dutiyo vimokkho.
(3) "Through superior practice one attains a higher deliverance. This is the third liberation. (4th jhana)
subhanteva adhimutto hoti. Ayaü tatiyo vimokkho.
(4) "With the complete transcending of the physical senses, with the disappearance of resistance, and not heeding various perceptions, perceiving 'Infinite space' one resides in the dimension of the infinite space (àkàsàna¤càyatanaü). This is the fourth liberation. (5th samadhi)
Sabbaso råpasa¤¤ànaü samatikkamà pañighasa¤¤ànaü atthaïgamà nànattasa¤¤ànaü amanasikàrà 'ananto àkàso'ti àkàsàna¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü catuttho vimokkho.
(5) "With the transcendence of the dimension of the infinite space, one becomes aware of 'Infinite consciousness (viññánañcáyatana),' one resides in the dimension of 'Infinite consciousness. This is the fifth liberation. (6th samadhi)
Sabbaso àkàsàna¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'anantaü vi¤¤àõa'nti vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü pa¤camo vimokkho.
(6) "With the complete transcending of the dimension of infinite consciousness, and with the attention upon the ‘emptiness of space’ one resides in the dimension of nothingness (ákiñeaññáyatana). This is the sixth liberation. (7th samadhi)
Sabbaso vi¤¤àõa¤càyatanaü samatikkamma 'natthi ki¤cã'ti àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü chaññho vimokkho,
(7) "With the complete transcendence of the dimension of nothingness, one enters and remains in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception (n'eva-saññá-násaññáyatana). This is the seventh liberation. (8th samadhi)
Sabbaso àki¤ca¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü sattamo vimokkho.
(8) "With the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, one enters and remains in the cessation of perception and sensation (sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü). This is the eighth liberation. (nibbana)
Sabbaso nevasa¤¤ànàsa¤¤àyatanaü samatikkamma sa¤¤àvedayitanirodhaü upasampajja viharati. Ayaü aññhamo vimokkho.
These, Ananda, are the 8 kinds of liberation."
Ime kho ànanda, aññha vimokkhà.
The 8 liberations as translated by you above, and the other translations are beyond anything I've experienced. I've only experienced the 1st jhana. Is it possible to explain them so someone who hasn't experienced them can understand what they mean?
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The 8 liberations as translated by you above, and the other translations are beyond anything I've experienced. I've only experienced the 1st jhana. Is it possible to explain them so someone who hasn't experienced them can understand what they mean?
The problem with the religious experience (samadhi) is it is as abstract an experience that anyone could ever have, so all any of use can do is describe it in our own words; and those who have actually had the experience will recognize it. So, take all of these translations, case histories, and descriptions, as a finger pointing at the moon.
I am confident that in your ardent and disciplined internal search in this lifetime you will have the genuine religious experience (samadhi). From reading these description you will know without a doubt that you have had the real deal. Until then, it is just intellectual curiosity. So, until then, keep up your meditation practice, your discipline, your reading, your asking questions.
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I am confident that in your ardent and disciplined internal search in this lifetime you will have the genuine religious experience (samadhi). From reading these description will you know without a doubt that you have had the real deal. Until then, it is just intellectual curiosity. So, until then, keep up your meditation practice, your discipline, your reading, your asking questions.
I too fell confident that I'm on the right path. I am learning bit by bit. It is good to have a true and proper road map for this path. Thank-you for providing us with one.
I might add that I think this Noble Eightfold Path is - vitally important - and should be thoroughly understood and mastered. It's what defines us as contemplatives and mystics; it's what we do each and every day. I am surprised that no one else seems to take interest in it.
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I too fell confident that I'm on the right path. I am learning bit by bit. It is good to have a true and proper road map for this path. Thank-you for providing us with one.
I might add that I think this Noble Eightfold Path is - vitally important - and should be thoroughly understood and mastered. It's what defines us as contemplatives and mystics; it's what we do each and every day. I am surprised that no one else seems to take interest in it.
There are a kit of people talking about the Noble Eightfold Path, but too few seem to understand it. However, I agree with you, the Noble Eightfold Path is simply an excellent description of the contemplative life, so all true contemplatives will be following it; whether they know it or not.
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I found this sutta to be particularly interesting. I think it's about Right Intention, the 2nd factor of the Noble Eightfold Path. Punna, a disciple of the Buddha, demonstrates that he has renounced his fear of death, and that he possesses an attitude of goodwill and harmlessness towards others no matter how horridly they might treat him. I think that Jesus had this attitude the day he was crucified.
Do you arahants or near-arahants out there possess a similar attitude?
“4Now that you have received this brief exhortation from me, Puṇṇa, in which country will you dwell?”
“5There is, venerable sir, a country named Sunaparanta. I will dwell there.”
“6Puṇṇa, the people of Sunaparanta are wild and rough. If they abuse and revile you, what will you think about that?”
“7Venerable sir, if the people of Sunaparanta abuse and revile me, then I will think: ‘These people of Sunaparanta are excellent, truly excellent, in that they do not give me a blow with the fist.’ Then I will think thus, Blessed One; then I will think thus, Fortunate One.”
“8But, Puṇṇa, if the people of Sunaparanta do give you a blow with the fist, what will you think about that?”
“9Venerable sir, if the people of Sunaparanta give me a blow with the fist, then I will think: ‘These people of Sunaparanta are excellent, truly excellent, in that they do not give me a blow with a clod.’ Then I will think thus, Blessed One; then I will think thus, Fortunate One.”
“10But, Puṇṇa, if the people of Sunaparanta do give you a blow with a clod, what will you think about that?”
“11Venerable sir, if the people of Sunaparanta give me a blow with a clod, then I will think: ‘These people of Sunaparanta are excellent, truly excellent, in that they do not give me a blow with a rod.’ sn.iv.62 Then I will think thus, Blessed One; then I will think thus, Fortunate One.”
“12But, Puṇṇa, if the people of Sunaparanta do give you a blow with a rod, what will you think about that?”
“13Venerable sir, if the people of Sunaparanta give me a blow with a rod, then I will think: ‘These people of Sunaparanta are excellent, truly excellent, in that they do not stab me with a knife.’ Then I will think thus, Blessed One; then I will think thus, Fortunate One.”
“14But, Puṇṇa, if the people of Sunaparanta do stab you with a knife, what will you think about that?”
“15Venerable sir, if the people of Sunaparanta stab me with a knife, then I will think: ‘These people of Sunaparanta are excellent, truly excellent, in that they do not take my life with a sharp knife.’ Then I will think thus, Blessed One; then I will think thus, Fortunate One.”
“16But, Puṇṇa, if the people of Sunaparanta do take your life with a sharp knife, what will you think about that?”
“17Venerable sir, if the people of Sunaparanta take my life with a sharp knife, then I will think: ‘There have been disciples of the Blessed One who, being repelled, humiliated, and disgusted by the body and by life, sought for an assailant. But I have come upon this assailant even without a search.’ Then I will think thus, Blessed One; then I will think thus, Fortunate One.”
“18Good, good, Puṇṇa! Endowed with such self-control and peacefulness, you will be able to dwell in the Sunaparanta country. Now, Puṇṇa, you may go at your own convenience.”
19Then, having delighted and rejoiced in the Blessed One’s statement, the Venerable Puṇṇa rose from his seat, paid homage to the Blessed One, sn.iv.63 and departed, keeping him on his right. He then set his lodging in order, took his bowl and outer robe, and set out to wander towards the Sunaparanta country. Wandering by stages, he eventually arrived in the Sunaparanta country, where he dwelt. Then, during that rains, the Venerable Puṇṇa established five hundred male lay followers and five hundred female lay followers in the practice, and he himself, during that same rains, realized the three true knowledges. And during that same rains he attained final Nibbāna.
20Then a number of bhikkhus approached the Blessed One … and said to him: “Venerable sir, the clansman named Puṇṇa, who was given a brief exhortation by the Blessed One, has died. What is his destination? What is his future bourn?”
“21Bhikkhus, the clansman Puṇṇa was wise. He practised in accordance with the Dhamma and did not trouble me on account of the Dhamma. The clansman Puṇṇa has attained final Nibbāna.”
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It is difficult to say. I just discussed this on another forum, how if someone were to punch me, I wouldn't punch them back. However, I would avoid danger by running--if it seemed this body was to be destroyed. I would do this for the same reason that Jhananda took action against the individuals trying to hurt him. To keep the body alive in order to help others find their way to enlightenment.
I am not an arahant. However, I appear to be an anagami. I've reflected on this and asked many people for their opinions over the last month. I have fear, and therefor would run from danger of death if, through direct knowing, it was known to be more likely to offer enlightenment to others. But if death would result in more, then it may be i would take death.
Socrates' final days are also good to review around this subject.
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Our friend Punna in the sutta seems to be totally passive. Could he not kill in order to defend himself? But that could be just him.
The first precept is to abstain from killing, as well as a factor of right action. But is this a guideline?
I wonder if an arahant is capable of murder? It's not hard to imagine all kinds of scenarios and situations where such a deed would be the most effective and only thing to do in order to prevent some very negative outcome, either to oneself or others. In the suttas there is no mention of such a possibility for an arahant.
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I do not think an arahant is capable of intentional killing. Myself, I wouldn't attempt to kill someone to defend myself. Nor do I think killing even the most evil individuals is an option. Evil people cause suffering which drive humans into the Path.
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An additional anecdote on how I know this. In my past lives, if I remember correctly, when it was a choice between my death and the death of others; I chose my own.
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Thank-you, Jhanon. That's what I was hoping to hear, I'm glad it works that way. That's what my gut is telling me. As I develop spiritually I hope to develop a deep understanding of this. Maybe Obi-Wan Kenobi was incapable of killing Darth Vader for this reason as well. ;D ( Hey, I just used an emoticon for the first time ever. I've always thought that that they were kinda goofy.)
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Our friend Punna in the sutta seems to be totally passive. Could he not kill in order to defend himself? But that could be just him.
The first precept is to abstain from killing, as well as a factor of right action. But is this a guideline?
I wonder if an arahant is capable of murder? It's not hard to imagine all kinds of scenarios and situations where such a deed would be the most effective and only thing to do in order to prevent some very negative outcome, either to oneself or others. In the suttas there is no mention of such a possibility for an arahant.
It depends upon the context, and the period. It takes insight to know what one should do.
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I am going to have to defer to Jhananda. Although in most cases I would say what I have said, his answer trumps the one I provided. The Bhagavad Gita has opened me up to such possibilities as you are contemplating, Michel.
Regarding the Force and emoticons, I can only say thank you for brightening my day :o
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It depends upon the context, and the period. It takes insight to know what one should do.
That's interesting. Is there a historical example?
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Regarding the Force and emoticons, I can only say thank you for brightening my day :o
Yes, I am an emotional iceberg. But I'm slowly beginning to thaw with the heat of jhana.
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Regarding the Force and emoticons, I can only say thank you for brightening my day :o
Yes, I am an emotional iceberg. But I'm slowly beginning to thaw with the heat of jhana.
I understand.
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I thought I'd make some changes to "Right Mindfulness" in our interpretation of the N8P which I base on the Mahasatipatthana Sutta, DN 22.
Old version:
7. Right Mindfulness and self-awareness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) Mindful contemplation of feeling-sensations (vedana) -- pleasant, unpleasant, neutral (the triggers for the three unwholesome roots)
3) Mindful contemplation of mind-states (citta) moods - the Six Unwholesome and Wholesome Roots: greed, aversion, and delusion, and their opposites: generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom
4) Mindful contemplation/Investigation of the dhammas (dhammas) - The Five Categories of Dhammas: the Five Hindrances, the Five Aggregates, the Six-sense Bases, the Seven Factors of Enlightenment, the Four Noble Truths
New version:
7. Right Mindfulness and self-awareness (samma-sati) – The Four Foundations of Mindfulness:
1) mindful contemplation of the body (kaya)
2) mindful contemplation of sensations (vedana) - pleasant, unpleasant, neutral (the triggers for greed, aversion and delusion)
3) mindful contemplation of mind states/moods (citta) - greed, aversion, delusion, and their opposites: non-greed, non-aversion, non-delusion
4) mindful contemplation/investigation of the Five Dhammas (dhammas):
The Five Hindrances - to be abandoned
The Five Clinging Aggregates - seen as arising and passing away; that they are impermanent, suffering & non-self
The Six-sense Bases - awareness of any fetter generated by them; that they are impermanent, suffering & non-self
The Seven Factors of Enlightenment - to be developed
The Four Noble Truths - to be utterly understood
I hope everyone agrees.
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Good work, Michel, Just a reminder to all, that the Seven Factors of Enlightenment mostly come from jhana attainment.
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“1Bhikkhus, just as various winds blow in the sky—easterly winds, westerly winds, northerly winds, southerly winds, dusty winds and dustless winds, cold winds and hot winds, gentle winds and strong winds —so too, when a bhikkhu develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path, then for him the four establishments of mindfulness go to fulfilment by development; the four right strivings go to fulfilment by development; the four bases for spiritual power go to fulfilment by development; the five spiritual faculties go to fulfilment by development; the five powers go to fulfilment by development; the seven factors of enlightenment go to fulfilment by development.
“2And how is this so? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops right view ... right concentration, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way, bhikkhus, that when a bhikkhu sn.v.50 develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path, then for him the four establishments of mindfulness … the seven factors of enlightenment go to fulfilment by development.
So, when one develops and cultivates the N8P, all the "Seven Sets of Thirty-seven Qualities" are fulfilled. See discussion on the 37 qualities here:
http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,578.0.html
So, it is very important to make sure that one masters and understands how to practice the N8P. It's all there.
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27 "Bhikkhus, for one who holds wrong view one of two destinations is to be expected: hell or the animal realm."
28 Bhikkhus, for one who holds right view one of two destinations is to be expected: the deva realm or the human realm.
29 (9) Bhikkhus, for an immoral person there are two receptacles: hell or the animal realm. For a virtuous person, there are two receptacles: the deva realm or the human realm."
These suttas chilled me to the bone. Most people that I know well do not have Right View. Perhaps they are at times virtuous, at times complete assholes.
Are these suttas a true reflection of reality? Hell must be a highly populated place with heaven being less so.
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I've gone into more detail on Right Mindfulness. I think this is a more accurate summary. I based this on Jhananda's translation of the Mahasatipatthana sutta, DN-22, and what we discussed up-thread. Please offer your suggestions for any improvements.
7. Right Mindfulness and Self-awareness (samma-sati) - The Four Foundations/Corner Stones of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation/awareness of the body (kaya): breath meditation, the four postures, clear comprehension of bodily activities, anatomical contemplations, the four elements, the cemetery contemplations
2) Mindful contemplation/awareness of sensations (vedana): pleasant, unpleasant, neutral sensations (the triggers for greed, hatred and delusion)
3) Mindful contemplation/awareness of mind states (citta): greed/non-greed; hatred/non-hatred; delusion/non-delusion; restricted/scattered; enlarged/not enlarged; surpassed/unsurpassed; absorbed/ecstatic (jhana)/not absorbed/not ecstatic; liberated/un-liberated
4) Mindful contemplation/awareness/investigation of the Five Dhammas (dhammas):
The Five Hindrances - awareness of their arising and passing away; understanding what causes a hindrance to arise and pass away; and how a future arising of a hindrance can be prevented.
The Five Clinging Aggregates - seen as arising and passing away; that they are impermanent, suffering & non-self.
The Six-sense Bases - awareness of any fetter generated by them; that they are impermanent, suffering & non-self.
The Seven Factors of Enlightenment - to be developed (mostly come from the attainment of jhana)
The Four Noble Truths - to be utterly understood.
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“1Bhikkhus, just as various winds blow in the sky—easterly winds, westerly winds, northerly winds, southerly winds, dusty winds and dustless winds, cold winds and hot winds, gentle winds and strong winds —so too, when a bhikkhu develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path, then for him the four establishments of mindfulness go to fulfilment by development; the four right strivings go to fulfilment by development; the four bases for spiritual power go to fulfilment by development; the five spiritual faculties go to fulfilment by development; the five powers go to fulfilment by development; the seven factors of enlightenment go to fulfilment by development.
“2And how is this so? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops right view ... right concentration, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way, bhikkhus, that when a bhikkhu sn.v.50 develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path, then for him the four establishments of mindfulness … the seven factors of enlightenment go to fulfilment by development.
So, when one develops and cultivates the N8P, all the "Seven Sets of Thirty-seven Qualities" are fulfilled. See discussion on the 37 qualities here:
http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,578.0.html
So, it is very important to make sure that one masters and understands how to practice the N8P. It's all there.
And the N8P culminates in jhana, yes? Some call it "right absorption" or "right concentration." We are told this often--reminded by Jhananda--aren't we?
But, then we have to wonder why there is all this 37 this, that, and the other thing. In my experience of daily jhana of at least 3rd jhana each session, I am finding it is possible to be in jhana and yet perhaps it couldn't be considered "right absorption." For example, I have had a few 3rd jhana experiences where I fell into the sometimes very tempting sexual fantasies. Interestingly, I am aware in that moment that I am not practicing rightly. That I'm grasping. Because it has a distinctly unsatisfying feeling to it.
I don't know all these 37 qualities. Certainly not memorized, at least. But when I read through them just now, with many of them I was taken back to a memory of the jhana experience in which that quality was being mindfully observed. They were not all present in just one jhana--not to my knowledge, at least. But it seems somehow jhana leads to these qualities naturally.
I'm not saying we can throw out any kind of studying. But I suppose I am saying that jhana puts all of this into perspective. And reviewing the teachings after jhana provides a special kind of confirmation. It's like doing something right, without realizing until someone points it out.
Actually, it's more like referencing a map. You see you've traveled more than you thought, and at the same time see what is yet to come. And in that moment, you see your location on the map.
Maybe the wrong absorption I described is actually still right absorption, because I realized it's unsatisfying nature.
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I'm sorry if that was confusing. I admit I have noticed I am a poor communicator in comparison to others here.
So, I'll just say thank you to Michel for always bringing me back to the suttas and original teachings. For putting this together in one central location, and not an exhaustingly long Thanissaro Bhikku book I have been avoiding ("Wings to Awakening.")
Well done. You have helped me gain confidence I needed. I hope I'll be similarly helpful to you in the future.
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I'm sorry if that was confusing. I admit I have noticed I am a poor communicator in comparison to others here.
Well done. You have helped me gain confidence I needed. I hope I'll be similarly helpful to you in the future.
You're doing fine, Jhanon. I always read what you have to say because at times you come up with some real gems. So it is I that thank you. I also find it's a struggle for me to write clearly. I'm a dreadful communicator. It's painful at times. So you are not alone.
So, I'll just say thank you to Michel for always bringing me back to the suttas and original teachings. For putting this together in one central location, and not an exhaustingly long Thanissaro Bhikku book I have been avoiding ("Wings to Awakening.")
I went through that book and it was the most painful book reading experience of my life. It was just so exhausting to read his stuff. In the end I didn't even know what he was trying to say. Maybe that's just me. I learn much more from reading the suttas. There you begin to see how all the pieces of the Dhamma fit together. You find clues here and there.
I've arrived at the conclusion that the 7 sets of 37 qualities are just a different way of arranging the N8P. Pretty much all of the factors of the 37 qualities are factors of the N8P. The building blocks can be arranged in many different ways to suit a teaching. Now I could be wrong. I will reflect on this. Do you agree, Jhananda?
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Hello, Michel, your interpretation of the Noble Eightfold path seems to be right on. We just need to remember the competent cook metaphor, that in addition to all that you mentioned, we still need to be mindful of the charisms (jhana-nimitta). While this may be a hair-spliting detail, I am still not out of Sedona, AZ, so the threat to my survival is very real. Love to all.
Hell must be a highly populated place with heaven being less so.
I hate to disappoint anyone, but this is hell, and the only way out is the N8P.
And the N8P culminates in jhana, yes? Some call it "right absorption" or "right concentration." We are told this often--reminded by Jhananda--aren't we?
Correct, Jhanon, the N8P is all about getting to jhana. Anyone who does not get this, is someone who is clueless.
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Hahahahahaha! Oh goodness. I've been reading some of your one liners after having an excellent meditation, remaining saturated in 2nd or 3rd jhana as I read, and it's like suddenly I see things you say as hilarious.
For example, on the 37 thread, Michel made a comment about how the North country and South country get an equal dose of suffering. And you simply said "This is surely hell." Hahahahaha! Normally I would see that, I suppose, from a sad perspective. But for some reason, being saturated this heavily and feeling free from the hell---it's just made those comments of yours hilarious. Kind of like if we were observing a practice session of some sports players, before choosing who would be on the team, and you just turned to me and said "We're fucked."
Okay. Forgive my language. I wanted to illustrate that point.
Thanks for the kind words, Michel.
Stay alive, Jhananda. You can play with the kitties soon enough :)
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I guess I unintentionally saw your comments as sadistic or whatever the term is.
But now I'm starting to think you're making jokes quite often. It's just the perspective from which you are making them isn't shared by very many humans.
Was the "playing with the kitties (cougars)" and "this is surely hell" said in good humor? Or were you just reminding us to practice?.....or both!?
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No, I was not making a joke, or being sadistic, or sarcastic, but I do wish to encourage people to become saturated in the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi). However, no one will pay your bills when you are enlightened, so you will still have to chop wood and carry water, and do the laundry, and clean the house, while keeping one step ahead of the predators, and the devout.
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This thread is undoubtedly among the best of the best on the forum. So I wanted to revive it. Thanks to all contributors.
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Thank you, Tad. From my perspective the Noble Eightfold Path is a brilliant description of the path to enlightenment; however, it has been hijacked when Samadhi is interpreted as "concentration" and not understood as 8 stages of altered states of consciousness that are characterized by bliss, joy and ecstasy.