Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Art of the Mystic => : Jhanananda October 20, 2013, 01:45:44 PM
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(https://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Ru_i_Q3voTk/mqdefault.jpg)
Woke Up - Emily Maguire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_i_Q3voTk&list=PLE10E678DDC1CC0DD)
(http://www.emilymaguire.com/images/photo-page/bath-steps.jpg)
Emily Maguire' (http://www.emilymaguire.com/)s music and video have given voice to a recurring nightmare I had during my protracted dark night of the soul. I think you will like it as much as I do. This morning I listened and watched more of her videos. I believe she is a natural mystic.
In this interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUERqUPtAr0&list=PLE10E678DDC1CC0DD) she reveals that she has been diagnosed with bipolar disease, which I believe is a common misdiagnosis of a mystic going through a dark night of the soul. Relevant to us, in this video interview we see a Tibetan Buddhist tanka in the background, which suggests that she might be a Buddhist.
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A remarkable woman, strikingly handsome, of noble spirit and grace, of powerful intelligence. I was moved to tears by this music. Thank-you for sharing this with us, Jhananda.
The destruction of our Mother Earth is a subject that has concerned me for a long time. For a time, I was optimistic that we would somehow get through this, and supported a number of environmental groups and projects, but now I'm truly convinced we are led by fools blindly moving us into total oblivion, and there's is nothing that we can do to stop them. I think we're at about 300ppm of CO2 in our atmosphere the last time I checked.
It's interesting that Emily Maguire is diagnosed as bipolar. My type of manic-depression was characterized by chronic, severe depression punctuated occasionally by manic episodes of moderate to severe psychosis requiring confinement in the psychiatric hospital.
Despite on several occasions, since 1979, being in states of manic psychosis, I believe I experienced some of my best insights into the nature of reality; they were truly mystical revelations of deep truths. In these states I realized that the idea that I held of myself was a total fiction, a creation of the intellect, and that I really did not exist in that sense. I also thought that there was an endless battle between the spirit and the intellect. The spirit I define as the knower of all things, and the intellect is simply deluded ignorance. I came to the conclusion that when the spirit is totally supressed by the deluded intellect, you have the cause for depression, and that this was the cause of my depression and neurosis, and this was also true for every one else. I also thought that I, my spirit, or whatever one wants to call it, was older then the beginning of time itself, and that all things are always in a state of change, and that there is nothing you can hold onto, and that there was an endless repeating cycle for all things; that we are doomed to experience the same horrors, with the same people, over and over again, in an endless cycle of death and rebirth. I remember having a vision of falling in love with this woman, then watching her die, then seeing this same experience from life to life, this experience of love and loss endlessly repeating. I also thought that the crows, these noble, dark spirits of the sky, knew all about these things, so I became friends with them. I commune with them whenever they're around. I bet this all sounds familiar to many people on this forum - it's real Buddhist stuff, but I did not know this at the time of my experiences, and I didn't think that there was a way out of this endless nightmare, until I discovered the Pali Cannon.
Some of the sanest people I've ever met were mental patients, and most of my friends were also mental patients. Some of them were going through the dark night of the soul experience when I met them in the hospital. As you know, the doctors and nurses don't understand any of this, they just think you're crazy, and put you on higher doses of drugs.
I plan to make mp3 recordings of three of my most recent compositions, and perhaps I will post them on YouTube, when I learn how. One of them I have dedicated to you, Jhananda.
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A remarkable woman, strikingly handsome, of noble spirit and grace, of powerful intelligence. I was moved to tears by this music. Thank-you for sharing this with us, Jhananda.
As accomplished as she is as a musician, and with her psychiatric past, it is a good bet she is also a genius.
The destruction of our Mother Earth is a subject that has concerned me for a long time. For a time, I was optimistic that we would somehow get through this, and supported a number of environmental groups and projects, but now I'm truly convinced we are led by fools blindly moving us into total oblivion, and there's is nothing that we can do to stop them. I think we're at about 300ppm of CO2 in our atmosphere the last time I checked.
Yes, I agree, "we are led by fools blindly moving us into total oblivion." Good news is an asteroid is coming to cleans the earth soon. So, the best thing we can all do is take up the contemplative life in earnest.
My type of manic depression was characterized by chronic severe depression punctuated occasionally by manic episodes of moderate to severe psychosis requiring confinement in the psychiatric hospital.
Despite on several occasions, since 1979, being in states of manic psychosis, I believe I experienced some of my best insights into the nature of reality; they were truly mystical revelations of deep truths.
In these states I realized that the idea that I held of myself was a total fiction, a creation of the intellect, and that I really did not exist in that sense. I also thought that there was an endless battle between the spirit and the intellect. The spirit I define as the knower of all things, and the intellect is simply deluded ignorance. I came to the conclusion that when the spirit is totally supressed by the deluded intellect you have the cause for depression, and that this was the cause of my depression and neurosis, and this was also true for every one else. I also thought that I, my spirit, or whatever one wants to call it, was older then the beginning of time itself, that all things are always in a state of change, and there is nothing you can hold onto, and that there was an endless repeating cycle for all things; that we are doomed to experience the same horrors, with the same people, over and over again, in an endless cycle of death and rebirth. I remember having a vision of falling in love with this woman, then watching her die, then seeing this same experience from life to life, this experience of love and loss endlessly repeating. I also thought that the crows, these noble, dark spirits of the sky, knew all about these things, so I became friends with them. I commune with them whenever they're around. I bet this all sounds familiar to many people on this forum - it's real Buddhist stuff, but I did not know this at the time of my experiences, and I didn't think that there was a way out of this endless nightmare, until I discovered the Pali Cannon.
Some of the sanest people I've ever met were mental patients, and most of my friends were also mental patients. Some of them were going through the dark night of the soul experience when I met them in the hospital. As you know, the doctors and nurses don't understand any of this, they just think you're crazy, and put you on higher doses of drugs.
You know you are in hell when you realize that the insane are in charge of the insane asylum, and the residents are the sane.
I plan to make mp3 recordings of three of my most recent compositions, and perhaps I will post them on YouTube, when I learn how. One of them I have dedicated to you, Jhananda.
I look forward to hearing it.
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Michel:
I also thought that there was an endless battle between the spirit and the intellect. The spirit I define as the knower of all things, and the intellect is simply deluded ignorance. I came to the conclusion that when the spirit is totally supressed by the deluded intellect you have the cause for depression, and that this was the cause of my depression and neurosis, and this was also true for every one else.
Jhananda, do you think this theory of mine is valid, or is it nonsense? Perhaps it's too simplistic? By deluded intellect, I meant that intellect can't really know the nature of reality.
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Michel: I also thought that there was an endless battle between the spirit and the intellect. The spirit I define as the knower of all things, and the intellect is simply deluded ignorance. I came to the conclusion that when the spirit is totally supressed by the deluded intellect you have the cause for depression, and that this was the cause of my depression and neurosis, and this was also true for every one else.
Jhananda, do you think this theory of mine is valid, or is it nonsense? Perhaps it's too simplistic?
That is the same theory I subscribe to. Stilling the mind puts the intellect asleep, so that the spirit can sing.
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Jhananda:
That is the same theory I subscribe to. Stilling the mind puts the intellect asleep, so that the spirit can sing.
That's interesting, well said. The intellect thinks it should be in control, but it should be the other way around, with the spirit as lord and master. In effect, most of us have the cart before the horse.
Jhananda: Yes, I agree, "we are led by fools blindly moving us into total oblivion." Good news is an asteroid is coming to cleans the earth soon. So, the best thing we can all do is take up the contemplative life in earnest.
You seem to be concerned about environmental issues, you use biofuel for your vehicles. Do you think there's any hope for the fight on climate change, and that we should do whatever we can? At the very least, in whatever way we can, we should still respect Mother Earth. We're at 393ppm of CO2, the highest it's been in the last 800,000 years. I think we're toast. I don't understand why people like James Hansen et al. are still fighting on. The war is over, the bad guys won. It's now a case of what do we do with all the broken pieces, we can't put them back together; Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a big fall...
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You seem to be concerned about environmental issues, you use biofuel for your vehicles. Do you think there's any hope for the fight on climate change, and that we should do whatever we can?
I have powered my vehicle mostly with recycled vegetable oil for almost 7 years. I have powered most of my electrical needs with solar panels. I am now working on a device that will recycle almost anything into fuel, such as: plastic, paper, or wood. I do all of this partly because there is not enough funding to fund the GWV, so I use my technical skills to make my own power. I also do it, because I chose to lead an ethical life.
Those who chose an ethical lifestyle will of course not harm the earth, and do what we can to avoid harm to planet and its creatures. However, how many are going to go to the trouble and expense to power their home and life with solar panels, wind generators, and biofuels? Not many.
So, to me the solution to all human social and environmental problems is to inspire everyone to lead an ethical, contemplative life. If they did, then no one would seek to harm the earth and its creatures.
At the very least, in whatever way we can, we should still respect Mother Earth. We're at 393ppm of CO2, the highest it's been in the last 800,000 years. I think we're toast. I don't understand why people like James Hansen et al. are still fighting on. The war is over, the bad guys won. It's now a case of what do we do with all the broken pieces, we can't put them back together; Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a big fall...
Well, yes, industrialization has caused a huge amount of CO2 to be dumped into the atmosphere, which is surely to cause a great disruption. All nuclear reactors will eventually melt down and cause great harm as well. However, the ecosystem has a way of repairing itself after considerable disturbance. After all there have been far worse environmental disasters caused by asteroid impact, which caused the extinction of up to 98% of all species here, and yet the earth came into a new balance, which allowed new species to evolve, such as us.
On the other hand, the species homo is capable of detecting and destroying, or diverting, asteroids that threaten to impact the earth. For that effort to work, it will take all humans participating. Perhaps the threat of impact will be sufficient to inspire everyone to work for a greater cause than self-preservation at the expense of everyone else. And, perhaps it will be those very nuclear weapons, which have threatened all of our personal safety, that will be used to destroy, or divert, an asteroids that threatens to impact the earth; and at the same time those nuclear weapons will be taken off-world, and destroyed in the process.
All most of us have to do is just meditate deeply, regardless of whether Asteroid 2013 TV135 impacts the planet in 19 years; or the oceans are turned into acid by excess CO2 emissions; or some other catastrophe brings life, as we know it, to an end on this planet.
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Did you ever have psychotic, manic episodes, with hallucinations? Did you gain any insights from them, if you did?
In some so called primitive cultures psychosis is regarded as a highly significant, spiritual experience. It is encouraged and even induced by the use of mind altering drugs such "ayahuasca", which is used by natives in the Amazon rainforest. One western anthropologist who tried ayahuasca, described the experience as like being shot through the barrel of a gun, lined with baroque paintings, and landing in a sea of electricity. Apparently one who takes this drug has hallucinations, and comes face to face with their demons. The task is to overcome your demons. So, they use this drug not for the fun of it, but because it is beneficial for ones personal development. I think that in our own culture we should allow people to go through their psychotic experience, and just let them work it through by providing a supportive environment. I was always extremely disappointed when my psychosis was interrupted by the intervention of some well meaning psychiatrist with an arsenal of drugs.
Quote of the day: The only way to understand the mathematical concept of infinity is to contemplate the extent of human stupidity. - Voltaire
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Did you ever have psychotic, manic episodes, with hallucinations? Did you gain any insights from them, if you did?
I am not sure if you have read William James' Varieties of Religious Experience (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Varieties_of_Religious_Experience); however, the backstory behind it, and the work of his graduate student Edwin Diller Starbuck (http://philosopedia.org/index.php/Edwin_Diller_Starbuck), is they were working under a model that the religious experience is nothing more than "religious psychosis." Therefore, since I have religious experiences, then by the definition of the DMS IV, I am psychotic, with manic episodes, and hallucinations. Worse than that, I have spent my whole life cultivating them through leading a contemplative life.
In some so called primitive cultures psychosis is regarded as a highly significant, spiritual experience. It is encouraged and even induced by the use of mind altering drugs such "ayahuasca", which is used by natives in the Amazon rainforest. One western anthropologist who tried ayahuasca, described the experience as like being shot through the barrel of a gun, lined with baroque paintings, and landing in a sea of electricity. Apparently one who takes this drug has hallucinations, and comes face to face with their demons. The task is to overcome your demons. So, they use this drug not for the fun of it, but because it is beneficial for ones personal development.
I am an Anthropologist, and I have studied in depth the use of psychoactive substances for stimulating the religious experience as a participant observer. Ayahuasca is just one of many drugs that have been used by primitives who wanted to stimulate a religious experience.
I have also lead a contemplative life to stimulating the religious experience as a participant observer. I have found that the psychoactive substances only mimic the religious experience, and never result in producing a positive transformative product in the subject. Whereas, I have found that leading a contemplative life to stimulate the religious experience does produce a positive transformative product in the subject.
I think that in our own culture we should allow people to go through their psychotic experience, and just let them work it through by providing a supportive environment. I was always extremely disappointed when my psychosis was interrupted by the intervention of some well meaning psychiatrist with an arsenal of drugs.
Quote of the day: The only way to understand the mathematical concept of infinity is to contemplate the extent of human stupidity. - Voltaire
I love your quote. I would be diagnosed as bipolar with psychotic, manic episodes, with hallucinations; however, as I see it, the problem with psychiatry is they are all nuts, like everyone else. Those who are dismissed as being mad, like: Emily, you and I, live in a mad, mad world, and we are among the few who know it.
As I see it, the problem with the psychotic is we know there is something deeply wrong with the world, but wherever we go we are told that we are the crazy ones. So, we wander from one disempowering situation to the next, with the mad rising and falling of the bipolar roller coaster.
The trick, for the bipolar, is to learn how to stay "manic" all of the time, while maintaining equanimity, which will avoid dissipating one's internal energies, which produces the depressive phase. I have found that I can be what is called "manic" and "psychotic" all of the time, while avoiding the depressive phase, by learning to manage my internal energy through leading a self-aware contemplative life.
I read the mystics, and follow their lifestyle. Today they would be dismissed as bipolar with psychotic episodes.
Part of what works for me is to avoid the cities, live in the wilderness, and only come into small towns for my needs. So, I expect Christian's goat farm helps Emily stabilize; whereas, going on tour, while stimulating her manic phase, results in a depressive phase, because of all of the work involved in touring.
I noticed a White Tara tanka in the background of one of Emily's videos. I searched for Shaktu, her recording label, and found a Pakistan location, which confused me until I saw a photo (http://www.emilymaguire.com/htm/blog.htm) of a man posing with Emily, who I guess is Muslim, Tariq Ali (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_Ali), so there might be both Buddhist and Sufi references in her personal philosophy, as there is in mine.
I pulled together references from the major mystics, as well as from western psychology, to build a cogent philosophy for today's mystics, which has helped me, as well as some friends of mine. The link to it is below. Perhaps you have read it already.
Jhana, the Joyful Home of the Way (Di.t.thadhammasukhavihaaraa) (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/joyfulhome.htm). Understanding the meditative absorption states (jhanas) and their associated phenomena (phala) within the Buddhist canon.
By the way, I have found two more of her music videos that I like quite a bit: Who Knows Where The Time Goes... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3lIqPWn2Hs&list=PLWdZZ7dWwOE-SyoMBfFwoKMGKJq8bhryI) and Believer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKrtFyJ3sRA&list=PLWdZZ7dWwOE-SyoMBfFwoKMGKJq8bhryI)
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I had a good time reading your post, it made me laugh. I've learnt more from you than I've learnt from anybody in my whole life. You make complete sense to me.
Jhananda: I am not sure if you have read William James' Varieties of Religious Experience; however, the backstory behind it, and the work of his graduate student Edwin Diller Starbuck, is they were working under a model that the religious experience is nothing more than "religious psychosis." Therefore, since I have religious experiences, then by the definition of the DMS IV, I am psychotic, with manic episodes, and hallucinations. Worse than that, I have spent my whole life cultivating them through leading a contemplative life.
Welcome to the club. The DMS IV is a nasty, little book full of contradictions and nonsense, and even some psychiatrist recognize this, but they are the very few. I see it on my psychiatrist's bookshelf beside him every time I check in.
Jhananda: I have also lead a contemplative life to stimulating the religious experience as a participant observer. I have found that the psychoactive substances only mimic the religious experience, and never result in producing a positive transformative product in the subject. Whereas, I have found that leading a contemplative life to stimulate the religious experience does produce a positive transformative product in the subject.
This is very believable, makes a lot of sense.
Jhananda: As I see it, the problem with the psychotic is we know there is something deeply wrong with the world, but wherever we go we are told that we are the crazy ones. So, we wander from one disempowering situation to the next, with the mad rising and falling of the bipolar roller coaster.
The trick, for the bipolar, is to learn how to stay "manic" all of the time, while maintaining equanimity, which will avoid dissipating one's internal energies, which produces the depressive phase. I have found that I can be what is called "manic" and "psychotic" all of the time, while avoiding the depressive phase, by learning to manage my internal energy through leading a self-aware contemplative life.
This is a tough balancing act. I've never been able to control the high energy levels of mania, along with the intense euphoria, erratic thoughts, and the accompanying gross, delusional distortion of reality. I've always crashed into a severe depressive phase after the manic phase. But - the spiritual insights that one gains from the experience are undeniable, I think, and they are dismissed as nonsense by the psychiatric profession. The depressive phase of bipolar is useless for anything; you are simply incapacitated to various degrees.
Would you go so far as to say that the manic phase of bipolar disorder is an out of control religious experience? You are saying that one has to learn how to bring it under control. It's interesting what you say about avoiding the depression phase. Indeed, this is a fine balancing act, difficult to master. Could you expand on this? I wish you would write an essay on this one too. Your insights are incredible. The world would benefit by your ideas, Jhananda. There are those who would listen, perhaps people like Emily.
Jhananda: By the way, I have found two more of her music videos that I like quite a bit: Who Knows Where The Time Goes... and Believer
I too very much liked "Who Knows Where The Time Goes." The visuals where incredible, I've also listened to Emily's other various music videos and interviews. I plan to read her blog. Truly a remarkable woman. I noticed she has ten other YouTube videos. See here: http://www.youtube.com/user/EmilyMaguireFans/videos
Here's a piece of music I like very much, titled "Delicate Touch", by Steen Beeson. It's kind of new age, but it's really good. It may even describe the lower religious experiences in terms of music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVkvWG_He-c
Jhananda: pulled together references from the major mystics, as well as from western psychology, to build a cogent philosophy for today's mystics, which has helped me, as well as some friends of mine. The link to it is below. Perhaps you have read it already.
Jhana, the Joyful Home of the Way (Di.t.thadhammasukhavihaaraa). Understanding the meditative absorption states (jhanas) and their associated phenomena (phala) within the Buddhist canon.
I've read this essay before, and I've just read again. Thank-you. You have proven, supported by the suttas, how everything points to jhana as a solution to overcome the fetters, the seven deadly sins, the hindrances, the aggregates, etc. Everyone should read this.
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I had a good time reading your post, it made me laugh. I've learnt more from you than I've learnt from anybody in my whole life. You make complete sense to me.
Thank-you. Every mystic uses logic to express themselves. So, if a philosophy is not cogent and logically true, then it is most probably flawed. Which does not say much for so-called "crazy wisdom." It is the crazy and stupid who fall for crazy "wisdom."
Welcome to the club. The DMS IV is a nasty, little book full of contradictions and nonsense, and even some psychiatrist recognize this, but they are the very few. I see it on my psychiatrist's bookshelf beside him every time I check in.
Gee, Western psychology and psychiatry are sounding a great deal like religions.
This is a tough balancing act. I've never been able to control the high energy levels of mania, along with the intense euphoria, erratic thoughts, and the accompanying gross, delusional distortion of reality. I've always crashed into a severe depressive phase after the manic phase. But - the spiritual insights that one gains from the experience are undeniable, I think, and they are dismissed as nonsense by the psychiatric profession. The depressive phase of bipolar is useless for anything; you are simply incapacitated to various degrees.
Would you go so far as to say that the manic phase of bipolar disorder is an out of control religious experience?
Yes, that seems reasonable to me. For the psychotic one just has to learn discipline to control the mania, as well as, stilling the mind, because most of the delusional material is the mind mixed with insight, which just makes mush.
You are saying that one has to learn how to bring it under control. It's interesting what you say about avoiding the depression phase. Indeed, this is a fine balancing act, difficult to master. Could you expand on this? I wish you would write an essay on this one too. Your insights are incredible. The world would benefit by your ideas, Jhananda. There are those who would listen, perhaps people like Emily.
Those who are labeled "delusional" might listen to what I have to say, and some of them might actually take up a disciplined life. If they did they could transition from the chaos of delusion into genuine mystics. The hard part for most is negotiating the Dark Night of the Soul, because it takes great courage to face one's demons.
I too very much liked "Who Knows Where The Time Goes." The visuals where incredible, I've also listened to Emily's other various music videos and interviews. I plan to read her blog. Truly a remarkable woman. I noticed she has ten other YouTube videos. See here: http://www.youtube.com/user/EmilyMaguireFans/videos
Yes, I have seen them all and like them all. I have also read some of her blog.
Here's a piece of music I like very much, titled "Delicate Touch", by Steen Beeson. It's kind of new age, but it's really good. It may even describe the lower religious experiences in terms of music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVkvWG_He-c
Thanks for the video link. It is very nice, but I think it would be far better in high fidelity, than in MP3 format.
pulled together references from the major mystics, as well as from western psychology, to build a cogent philosophy for today's mystics, which has helped me, as well as some friends of mine. The link to it is below. Perhaps you have read it already.
Jhana, the Joyful Home of the Way (Di.t.thadhammasukhavihaaraa). Understanding the meditative absorption states (jhanas) and their associated phenomena (phala) within the Buddhist canon.
I've read this essay before, and I've just read again. Thank-you. You have proven, supported by the suttas, how everything points to jhana as a solution to overcome the fetters, the seven deadly sins, the hindrances, the aggregates, etc. Everyone should read this.
Yes, that is my job description. It is through cultivating the religious experience that we have the necessary transformation of character to be free of the addictions/sins/fetter.
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Jhananda:
... The hard part for most is negotiating the Dark Night of the Soul, because it takes great courage to face one's demons
You tremble, my dear old body, but you would tremble even more if you knew where I was taking you. - Henri, vicomte de Turenne
Jhananda I am not sure if you have read William James' Varieties of Religious Experience; however, the backstory behind it, and the work of his graduate student Edwin Diller Starbuck, is they were working under a model that the religious experience is nothing more than "religious psychosis." Therefore, since I have religious experiences, then by the definition of the DMS IV, I am psychotic, with manic episodes, and hallucinations.
The eminence of a great scientist, is measured by the length of time they obstruct progress in their field. - author unknown
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I like these lines from Maguire's "Believer:
...if only
I’d seen the light of a thousand suns
Rising high above the sea
And I’d held the hand of a holy man
If only I believed
Believer
Yes, I like those lines as well.
For me 'the light of a thousand suns' is the Pali Canon, which shows the path one must follow to the religious experience. And 'the hand of a holy man' are all of the wise mystics.
No religious literature is that "the light of a thousand suns." However, the experience of seeing a burst of light and feeling the full power of the kundalini as a religious experience is defined as "the light of a thousand suns" in numerous places in Indic literature. I do not think it is described in the Pali Canon that way, unless it is the light spoken of in DN6. I have had this experience several times. I believe it is the 8th samadhi as defined in MN-26 (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/sutta/majjhima/mn026-tb0.html), but it is nowhere near as poetic.
Domain of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, Nevasannanasannnayatana
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), completely (Sabbaso) passing beyond (samatikkama) the domain of no evil (àkiñcaññàyatanaü) near to (upasampajja) limitless (anantaü) volition (viññàõanti) one traverses (viharati) the domain of neither-perception-nor-non-perception (nevasaññànàsaññàyatanaü). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato).
Nonetheless, I would agree that the Noble Eightfold Path, as described in the Pali Canon, is an excellent, and even one of the best, descriptions of the contemplative life; however, sadly, I have not met a single Buddhist priest who seems to understand or follow the Noble Eightfold Path.
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Quote from: Michel on Today at 09:19:09 AM
For me 'the light of a thousand suns' is the Pali Canon, which shows the path one must follow to the religious experience. And 'the hand of a holy man' are all of the wise mystics.
Jhananda: No religious literature is that "the light of a thousand suns." However, the experience of seeing a burst of light and feeling the full power of the kundalini as a religious experience is defined as "the light of a thousand suns" in numerous places in Indic literature.
Interesting.I got it completely wrong. I've never had a religious experience as you describe above. I should not comment on such experiences until I have one myself. So this is why you think Maguire is possibly a mystic?
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Interesting.I got it completely wrong. I've never had a religious experience as you describe above. I should not comment on such experiences until I have one myself.
God is indescribable radiance and power.
If the light of a thousand suns
should suddenly burst forth in the sky
it would be like the light
of that exalted one.
http://www.pantheism.net/paul/history/gita.htm
So this is why you think Maguire is possibly a mystic?
At this point we should define the term 'mystic.' A mystic is someone who is successful at cultivating religious experiences. There are 8 stages of the religious experience, and there are various fruit there of. So, a person who has consistent access to the first religious experience (first jhana) is a stage one mystic, and so forth.
Emily Maguire's lyrics and history show that she has at least some random religious experiences, which might have been misinterpreted by the psychiatric community as psychosis. So, at this point I would say, until she learns to control the experience, then she is a "natural mystic," which means she exists on the fringe between a mystic and a normal. This would also be true for Lucinda Williams, and other singer-song-writers with exceptional talent and genius, and who's writing indicates a surreal or altered state, as is indicated by the songs Woke Up - Emily Maguire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_i_Q3voTk&list=PLE10E678DDC1CC0DD) and What If? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJh-rRa8v3s&list=PLWdZZ7dWwOE-SyoMBfFwoKMGKJq8bhryI) .
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Jhananda:
Emily Maguire's lyrics and history show that she has at least some random religious experiences, which might have been misinterpreted by the psychiatric community as psychosis. So, at this point I would say, until she learns to control the experience, then she is a "natural mystic," which means she exists on the fringe between a mystic and a normal. This would also be true for Lucinda Williams, and other singer-song-writers with exceptional talent and genius, and who's writing indicates a surreal or altered state, as is indicated by the songs Woke Up - Emily Maguire and What If?
Interesting. Hopefully one day these two magnificent women will someday meet somebody like you to help them realize their potential.
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This morning I was skimming through more of Emily Maguire's music videos on YouTube. I found the lyrics for Emily Maguire - Over The Waterfall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eHnzUlB8wQ) very interesting support for my Emily Maguire is a proto-mystic premise.
Lyrics (http://www.emilymaguire.com/htm/lyrics/lyrics-over-the-waterfall.htm)
I bet you don’t hear a million voices ringing in your head
This often happens to a contemplative who begins to become charismatic. They start hearing the charismatic sounds, but their mind is still active, so it tries to interpret those sounds as voices. It is best to get to the 3rd stage of the religious experience, where one gains a deep level of equanimity so that the charisms are just raw sensation, which the mind does not attempt to interpret, because it has become still.
I bet you don’t see symbolic meaning in every word you said
One of the charisms that I have not discussed much, and the literature of the mystics does not seem to go into depth; however, it is an aspect of insight (vipassana), which is intuitive and revelatory, where the mystic learns to "read between the lines" of literature and even every day actions and occurrences. This manifestation is often times used by psychiatrists as proof of psychosis.
And nor do I, except sometimes my reason goes
Out it flies, off to somewhere no-one knows
I lose my mind which I can’t find
Cos I don’t know it’s missing at all
Won’t you hold my hand and don’t let go
Or I will fall down through the clouds
Over the waterfall
This reads like her mind stills, perhaps naturally, but she is not sure what to do with a still mind.
Picture this attic with a window looking at the sky
Picture some basement like a dungeon and now you ask me why
I choose the sky, I hold the whole world in my hand
Embrace the night but now I don’t know who I am
She does not know who she is because she is having a non-dual experience. The 8 stages of the religious experience are characterized by a loss of the sense of self, which means it is a non-dual, or Advaita, experience. However, western psychiatry sees a non-dual experience as another aspect of psychosis.
I lose my mind which I can’t find
Cos I don’t know what’s going on
Cos I’m on cloud nine and I feel fine
I’ve swallowed time, I’ve grown me some wings
The manic phase, as she describes here, is similar to the religious experience, as it is also characterized by the rising of energy, virtue, virya, kundalini, where the mystic finds power, joy, inspiration, and just wants to keep that power, and keep growing that power, which can be done through leading a disciplined contemplative life.
And now I can fly and follow the sky
And why should I come down
Perhaps here she is describing OOBEs, which are also a characteristic of the religious experience. They are also called "raptures" in Christian mystical literature.
I hope you don’t mind if I stay under this duvet on my bed
I hope you don’t mind I don’t remember a single word you said
I’d like to die, end this rollercoaster ride
And so I cry, cos I can’t stop this turning tide
I lose my mind, if they can’t find
A cure this time, they’ll take me away
In a big white van, so hold my hand
And don’t let go, don’t let me fall
Through the cracks in the floor
So take my hand and don’t let go
Don’t let me go over the waterfall
One who has the religious experience needs to learn some mental discipline, which is what the contemplative life is about. Without that mental discipline it is all too easy to feel lost. However, there is a tendency among mystics to retreat into solitude, which she seems to suggest in these final lines. Solitude is a good thing for a mystic. We can often times not get enough, but then sometimes we get lonely, which Emily Maguire describes in another of her songs.
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Quote from: Emily Maguire - Over The Waterfall
And nor do I, except sometimes my reason goes
Out it flies, off to somewhere no-one knows
I lose my mind which I can’t find
Cos I don’t know it’s missing at all
Won’t you hold my hand and don’t let go
Or I will fall down through the clouds
Over the waterfall
Jhananda: This reads like her mind stills, perhaps naturally, but she is not sure what to do with a still mind.
You could be right, your interpretation makes some sense. Or, she might mean that she does things in a very spontaneous fashion without thinking, and that she's totally out of it, which are characteristic of mania.
I remember having a loss of self-identity during some of my manic high episodes. I could no longer relate to whom I had been, as if my former self was dead, as if I had no pass. I was mostly preoccupied with the present moment in a state of awe and euphoria by the experience of simply observing things around me. I was in the clouds.
Quote from: Emily Maguire - Over The Waterfall
I lose my mind which I can’t find
Cos I don’t know what’s going on
Cos I’m on cloud nine and I feel fine
I’ve swallowed time, I’ve grown me some wings
Jhananda: The manic phase, as she describes here, is similar to the religious experience, as it is also characterized by the rising of energy, virtue, virya, kundalini, where the mystic finds power, joy, inspiration, and just wants to keep that power, and keep growing that power, which can be done through leading a disciplined contemplative life.
During my manic phases, conventional time had no meaning, I could feel an eternity in a single moment. I felt free and unburdened, as if a great weight had been lifted from my shoulders. The euphoria was at times very intense. I had great levels of energy, and my creativity knew no bounds. You never want to let these feelings go. When they're gone, it's as if you've lost something very precious, and you're depressed big time.
Emily Maguire's experiences are deeper than mine, and I'm not a mystic, so I don't understand them fully. It takes a mystic to unravel and interpret them.
How do you think Maguire developed into a mystic? Was she a mystic in a former life?
Is experiencing bipolar phenomena, such as in my case, indicative of anything?
I think what you say about pro-mystics makes a lot of sense, you're really onto something.
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You could be right, your interpretation makes some sense. Or, she might mean that she does things in a very spontaneous fashion without thinking, and that she's totally out of it, which are characteristic of mania.
To me these are simply two different ways of interpreting the same experience. Psychiatry deals with mania by restraining the subject until the mania passes. I propose that the mania is not unlike the mystic's experience of kundalini. It is just the mystic has learned self-control through cultivating mental discipline by leading a contemplative life.
I remember having a loss of self-identity during some of my manic high episodes. I could no longer relate to whom I had been, as if my former self was dead, as if I had no pass. I was mostly preoccupied with the present moment in a state of awe and euphoria by the experience of simply observing things around me. I was in the clouds.
Another way of looking at this is, perhaps Jesus was in a manic phase when he whipped the money changers in the temple?
During my manic phases, conventional time had no meaning, I could feel an eternity in a single moment. I felt free and unburdened, as if a great weight had been lifted from my shoulders. The euphoria was at times very intense. I had great levels of energy, and my creativity knew no bounds. You never want to let these feelings go. When they're gone, it's as if you've lost something very precious, and you're depressed big time.
Emily Maguire's experiences are deeper than mine, and I'm not a mystic, so I don't understand them fully. It takes a mystic to unravel and interpret them.
How do you think Maguire developed into a mystic? Was she a mystic in a former life?
Is experiencing bipolar phenomena, such as in my case, indicative of anything?
I think what you say about pro-mystics makes a lot of sense, you're really onto something.
The reason why I say the psychotic episodes of the bipolar are similar to the experience of the mystic is as you and Emily describe your manic phase it reads like my experience, and the experience of the mystics as described in their literature; except our experience has an element of balance, which we gain from cultivating tranquility and equanimity through leading a disciplined, self-aware contemplative life; whereas, the bipolar typically does not lead such a lifestyle. To me, that is the only difference between the mystic and the bipolar.
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Quote from: Michel on November 01, 2013, 04:13:22 PM
I remember having a loss of self-identity during some of my manic high episodes. I could no longer relate to whom I had been, as if my former self was dead, as if I had no pass. I was mostly preoccupied with the present moment in a state of awe and euphoria by the experience of simply observing things around me. I was in the clouds.
Jhananda: Another way of looking at this is, perhaps Jesus was in a manic phase when he whipped the money changers in the temple?
Do you mean that Jesus was out of character due to being manic?
How do you think people like Emily Maguire evolved into being proto-mystics?
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Do you mean that Jesus was out of character due to being manic?
No, there are just a number of ways to interpret the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite. Greco-Roman Christianity is one way. Another way is to dismiss him as merely bipolar psychotic, who, in his manic phase, whipped the money changers.
Still another way of interpreting the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite is to consider that he and John the Baptist were both Nazarites, who found themselves marginalized by mainstream Jewish culture and religion and decided to take a suicide pact to force their mystic agenda upon the Jewish people.
Another way of interpreting the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite is he and his father, the Nazarite Joseph, left Judea for Kashmir when Jesus was 12 to escape the priesthood of the temple of Jerusalem, because Jesus had had a conversation with them, which revealed his mystical interpretation of the Bible. They lived in Kashmir on alms. Joseph eventually died.
After Nazarite Joseph's death, Jesus decided to return to Judea, since he was Jewish. There he found John the Baptist. No one knew who Jesus was, because he had been out of the country for 12 years.
Jesus made friends with John the Baptist, went on a fast, came back, found John the Baptist had handed over his disciples to him, just before getting himself arrested and martyred. Jesus saw that was a good idea, so he arranged to have himself busted, drugged on the cross, so that he could be taken down early, then put into a friend's tomb, who promised to come later to revive him and apply aloe to his wounds, then after recovery Jesus returned to Kashmir with Thomas, who was the only one of his disciples who understood his teaching; and Jesus stayed in Kashmir until he died.
How do you think people like Emily Maguire evolved into being proto-mystics?
To me all bipolar psychotics are proto-mystics, or natural mystics. They are sensitive to the charisms, but they just lack the mental discipline to not be driven crazy by them.
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Jhananda:
...there are just a number of ways to interpret the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite...
Still another way of interpreting the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite is to consider that he and John the Baptist were both Nazarites, who found themselves marginalized by mainstream Jewish culture and religion and decided to take a suicide pact to force their mystic agenda upon the Jewish people.
This is very interesting. Other than the Greco-Roman Christian teachings, what source documents do you base your ideas about the life of Jesus and John the Baptist?
What was the life of a Nazarite like? What were their teachings and how did they practice?
Jhananda:To me all bipolar psychotics are proto-mystics, or natural mystics. They are sensitive to the charisms, but they just lack the mental discipline to not be driven crazy by them.
Let's see if I can apply the mental discipline necessary to keep my bipolar under control. When mania overtakes you, it seems like and unstoppable, monster of a hurricane. In my case mania builds gradually over a period of days before it becomes full blown. Maybe it can be subdued during this brief period, perhaps by letting go and just relaxing, along with diligently practicing the Eightfold Path. But if your theory is correct, and one is becoming manic, it would imply that one is not practicing the Eightfold Path properly.
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This is very interesting. Other than the Greco-Roman Christian teachings, what source documents do you base your ideas about the life of Jesus and John the Baptist?
It is all in the Gospels. We know there was no town called "Nazareth." So, it had to be Joseph and Jesus were Nazarites. It is also a fact that the Arabic term for a Christian is "Nazarite." It is also a historic fact that the earliest Christians were Jews, and they did not call themselves Christians. They called themselves Nazarites. To prove all of that takes a little homework, and I do not have all of the links handy.
The term 'Nazarite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite)' appears in the Bible. It is in Wiki. It will tell you all about the Nazarite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite), and when you read it, you should be able to recognize that the description of the lifestyle of John the Baptist makes him a Nazarite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite). It is so blatant, that I am surprised that not more Christians have dumped the whole Greco-Roman delusional system. But, then the world is full of delusional idiots. What can I say.
What was the life of a Nazarite like? What were their teachings and how did they practice?
Read Wiki on Nazarite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite)s.
Let's see if I can apply the mental discipline necessary to keep my bipolar under control. When mania overtakes you, it seems like and unstoppable, monster of a hurricane. In my case mania builds gradually over a period of days before it becomes full blown. Maybe it can be subdued during this brief period, perhaps by letting go and just relaxing, along with diligently practicing the Eightfold Path. But if your theory is correct, and one is becoming manic, it would imply that one is not practicing the Eightfold Path properly.
No, the mania is a good thing. The problem for the manic, is lack of control/discipline. If the bipolar could maintain tranquility and equanimity through the manic phase, then the manic phase could be sustained indefinitely, At that point we could call the individual at least an arahat. So, be mindfully self-aware.
When you recognize the manic phase arising, then be even more mindfully self-aware. Do not throw that precious energy (virtue, virya, shakti, shakena, kundalini) around, but savor it, like a very expensive wine.
Expensive wines are not gulped, they are sipped and savored. The gourmand tastes the bouquet of the expensive wine/coffee. He/ she rolls it in his/her mouth, then breaths through it, feels the sensations on the tunque, inside the cheeks, and nasal passages; before swallowing it. Then the wine passing down the throat is savored as well. It is all mindfully observed. Be that self aware at all times, then you are diligently following the Noble Eightfold Path.
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Jhananda:
No, the mania is a good thing. The problem for the manic, is lack of control/discipline. If the bipolar could maintain tranquility and equanimity through the manic phase, then the manic phase could be sustained indefinitely, At that point we could call the individual at least and arahat. So, be mindfully self-aware.
When you recognize the manic phase arising, then be even more mindfully self-aware. Do not throw that precious energy (virtue, virya, shakti, shakena, kundalini) around, but savor it, like a very expensive wine.
Expensive wines are not gulped, they are sipped and savored. The gourmand tastes the bouquet of the expensive wine/coffee. He/ she rolls it in his/her mouth, then breaths through it, feels the sensations on the tongue, inside the cheeks, and nasal passages; before swallowing it. Then the wine passing down the throat is savored as well. It is all mindfully observed. Be that self aware at all times, then you are diligently following the Noble Eightfold Path.
This has got to be the most interesting and iconoclastic view that anyone has ever expressed in the history of bipolar disorder - it is fantastic. If the psychiatric and pharmaceutical industries were ever to hear of this, you would be crucified like Jesus. Hopefully they don't take you seriously.
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This has got to be the most interesting and iconoclastic view that anyone has ever expressed in the history of bipolar disorder - it is fantastic. If the psychiatric and pharmaceutical industries were ever to hear of this, you would be crucified like Jesus. Hopefully they don't take you seriously.
This reminds me of the kundalini forums, where they spend all of their time teaching people how to come down. I say, go the other way. Annihilate yourself in the charisms/mania. Dive head first, let go of yourself, become god; but discipline yourself at the same time. Still the mind. Cultivate equanimity.
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Jhananda:
This reminds me of the kundalini forums, where they spend all of their time teaching people how to come down. I say, go the other way. Annihilate yourself in the charisms/mania. Dive head first, let go of yourself, become god; but discipline yourself at the same time. Still the mind. Cultivate equanimity.
I don't know if I could manage another strong manic episode and do as you suggest, I would need some sort of preparation, and it would be very risky. The psychiatrist told me that the next time I end up in the hospital they would consider putting me away for good in a group home for mentally ill people. I remember on one occasion I thought I was the reincarnation of Ludwig Van Beethoven, and that I could stare down people and stop objects with just a glance, and that I could walk through solid objects; I felt totally invincible. The intensity of euphoria was incredible, and I was in this state for a period of 3 months or so. I was fortunate that I did not end up confined in a mental facility. This was actually a milder case of the bipolar experiences that I've had. The doctor I had at the time was very liberal, and thought I should just enjoy myself, and I certainly did. I related well to people that I liked, and got on particularly well with the women. The doctor I have now would certify me immediately. The laws in in the province of Ontario allow the psychiatrists to administer any of the medications they see fit, even by force if necessary, which happened to me a couple of times.
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I don't know if I could manage another strong manic episode and do as you suggest. The psychiatrist told me that the next time I end up in the hospital they would consider putting me away for good in a group home for mentally ill people.
Well, it is against the rules here to get busted for being in ecstasy :-)
I remember on one occasion, I thought I was the reincarnation of Ludwig Van Beethoven, and that I could stare down people and stop objects with just a glance, and that I could walk through solid objects; I felt totally invincible. The intensity of feeling was incredible, and I was in this state for some 3 months without ending up confined in a mental facility. This was actually a milder case of the bipolar experiences that I've had. The doctor I had at the time was very liberal, and thought I should just enjoy myself, and I certainly did. I related well to people that I liked, and got on particularly well with the women.
That was a pretty good laugh you gave me. I agree with your previous doctor, enjoy yourself, but don't get into trouble, and don't take yourself too seriously.
The doctor I have now would certify me immediately. The laws in Ontario allow the psychiatrists to administer any of the medications they see fit, even by force if necessary, which happened to me a couple of times.
Just work on developing the still mind (tranquility), and the equanimity. No sense in getting the cart before the horse.
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Jhananda:
Well, it is against the rules here to get busted for being in ecstasy :-)
Those are the kind of rules I like. Are there any other rules that I should know of?
Jhananda:That was a pretty good laugh you gave me. I agree with your previous doctor, enjoy yourself, but don't get into trouble, and don't take yourself too seriously
I recall one time back 1982, while I was manic, I laughed for two days straight, and became totally exhausterd. I thought I had discovered the secret of the source spirit of all human beings. I thought it was so simple to understand, and that all humans had it in them to understand this ancient wisdom, it was on the tip of their nose. That seemed very amusing, and it was. I remember taking a taxi to the hospital just a few blocks from where I lived, and tried to give the driver a $50 tip - he wouldn't take it, he thought I was nuts since I couldn't stop laughing on the way to the hospital. When I got there my plan was to convene a meeting for all the hospital staff so I could tell them of my profound discovery, but when I got there I was so exhausted from laughing that I couldn't speak a word. I must of looked totally catatonic. Anyways for some reason they sent me packing. I went back home and wrote a treatise on the great secret of the source spirit. I planed to hire a pilot and plane and drop millions of copies of it over New York, London, Paris, and Moscow. Two days later I and my treatise were brought in to the emergency department at the psychiatric hospital by two burly members of the police force, and the orderlies stuck a syringe in my butt. As for my treatise, they couldn't understand a word of it, but it made perfect sense to me. I later managed to escape from the hospital but they had confiscated my treatise, and I went on to have all kinds of interesting adventures. I remember one was a plan to ride a motor cycle across the Atlantic on the water and my destination was Paris. I wanted to visit Claude Debussy's grave, and see Erik Satie's apartment. So I went to the motor bike store to buy one. When I told them I was going to ride the waves on a bike across the Atlantic they like the taxi driver, and the hospital, thought I was nuts. It just so happened that a cop station was across from the motor bike shop. They cuffed me and put me in jail, and later I ended back in the hospital.
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Jhananda:Well, it is against the rules here to get busted for being in ecstasy :-)
Those are the kind of rules I like. Are there any other rules that I should know of?
I will let you know when I think of them:-)
I recall one time back 1982, while I was manic, I laughed for two days straight, and became totally exhausterd. I thought I had discovered the secret of the source spirit of all human beings. I thought it was so simple to understand, and that all humans had it in them to understand this ancient wisdom, it was on the tip of their nose.
Well it is true, the secret of the source spirit of all human beings is on the tip of their nose, and it is laughable, but sorry you did not stay there.
That seemed very amusing, and it was. I remember taking a taxi to the hospital just a few blocks from where I lived, and tried to give the driver a $50 tip - he wouldn't take it, he thought I was nuts since I couldn't stop laughing on the way to the hospital.
Nice taxi driver.
When I got there my plan was to convene a meeting for all the hospital staff so I could tell them of my profound discovery, but when I got there I was so exhausted from laughing that I couldn't speak a word. I must of looked totally catatonic.
This is where you had not learned some discipline and dissipated the gift of the holy spirit.
Anyways for some reason they sent me packing. I went back home and wrote a treatise on the great secret of the source spirit. I planed to hire a pilot and plane and drop millions of copies of it over New York, London, Paris, and Moscow. Two days later I and my treatise were brought in to the emergency department at the psychiatric hospital by two burly members of the police force, and the orderlies stuck a syringe in my butt. As for my treatise, they couldn't understand a word of it, but it made perfect sense to me. I later managed to escape from the hospital but they had confiscated my treatise, and I went on to have all kinds of interesting adventures. I remember one was to ride a motor cycle across the Atlantic on the water and my destination was Paris. I wanted to visit Claude Debussy's grave, and see Erik Satie's apartment. So I went to the motor bike store to buy one. When I told them I was going to ride the waves on a bike across the Atlantic they like the taxi driver, and the hospital, thought I was nuts. It just so happened that a cop station was across from the motor bike shop. They cuffed me and put me in jail, and later I ended back in the hospital.
I would like to see your treatise. But, it does sound like critical thinking goes down the tubes when you are manic. So, here is another homework assignment for you. Work on your critical thinking skills and never let go of them. So, you have: discipline, mindful self-awareness, tranquility, equanimity, and critical thinking now on your chart. You might want to write the list down and stick it to your refrigerator.
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Jhananda:
I would like to see your treatise.
I really regret to say that during one of my depressions a couple of years ago I destroyed the treatise. It was really something special. But I remember all the main details of it. I titled the treatise "The Wisdom of the Source: For the Eyes of Madmen Only". It was written in a great fury, and in one sitting, and was some fourteen pages long. To this very day I know that I did not write it - it came directly from the Source deep within me. It was pure spirit speaking. Much of it seemed like nonsense, but the main ideas in it would make sense to any mystic that would have read it.
Here are some of the main ideas, which I remember, and I have paraphrased and presented them here in the form of an imaginary lecture spoken by the Source to the Intellect as in the original treatise:
Intellect, understand that I am the source of all wisdom directly speaking to you.
Intellect, I am so large that you can't even see me, and I am also the incomprehensible.
You intellect, are fighting a futile, horrible, savage and needless war with your own soldiers, against each other, trying to suppress me. This is the cause of your angst and depression.
You are very afraid of me, but you don't even know it, for it is not possible for you to know anything.
When you, Intellect, stand out of my way, I will arise from the depths in glorious splendor, and I am infinite in power, I can release great energies, and possess infinite creativity, and I am beyond the beginning of time itself.
Intellect, you can only deceive, steel, murder with all of your foolish concepts, fears and ideas.
Intellect, Michel does not exist, this is your foolish idea, bases on ridiculous concepts, this is your insane invention.
Give up intellect, you cannot not possibly win against me, in the end you have always failed since beyond the beginning of time.
Understand this Intellect, you did not write this treatise, I the Source of all wisdom did.
Intellect, I am your lord and master, you should serve me, don't deny me, and then, and only then, will all your problems be solved.
Was this the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking here, or what?
Jhananda: But, it does sound like critical thinking goes down the tubes when you are manic. So, here is another homework assignment for you. Work on your critical thinking skills and never let go of them. So, you have: discipline, mindful self-awareness, tranquility, equanimity, and critical thinking now on your chart. You might want to write the list down and stick it to your refrigerator
I will do as you say. I try to practice these every day. Will discuss this important subject in detail in another post.
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I really regret to say that during one of my depressions a couple of years ago I destroyed the treatise. It was really something special. But I remember all the main details of it. I titled the treatise "The Wisdom of the Source: For the Eyes of Madmen Only". It was written in a great fury, and in one sitting, and was some fourteen pages long. To this very day I know that I did not write it - it came directly from the Source deep within me. It was pure spirit speaking. Much of it seemed like nonsense, but the main ideas in it would make sense to any mystic that would have read it.
Here are some of the main ideas, which I remember, and I have paraphrased and presented them here in the form of an imaginary lecture spoken by the Source to the Intellect as in the original treatise:
Intellect, understand that I am the source of all wisdom directly speaking to you.
Intellect, I am so large that you can't even see me, and I am also the incomprehensible.
You intellect, are fighting a futile, horrible, savage and needless war with your own soldiers, against each other, trying to suppress me. This is the cause of your angst and depression.
You are very afraid of me, but you don't even know it, for it is not possible for you to know anything.
When you, Intellect, stand out of my way, I will emerge from the depths in glorious splendor, and I am infinite in power, I can release great energies, and possess infinite creativity.
I am older than the beginning of time itself.
Intellect, you can only deceive, steel, murder with all of your foolish concepts, fears and ideas.
Intellect, Michel does not exist, this is your foolish idea, this is your invention.
Give up intellect, you cannot not possibly win against me, in the end you have always failed since beyond the beginning of time.
Understand this Intellect, you did not write this treatise, I the Source of all wisdom did.
Intellect, I am your lord and master, you should serve me, don't deny me, and then, and only then, will all your problems be solved.
Was this the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking here, or what?
I agree with much, if not all, of what your treatise states. However, there is more to it, and the Noble Eightfold Path is a good description of the more.
I will do as you say. I try to practice these every day. Will discuss this important subject in detail in another post.
If we examine the Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga, sambojjhanaga) we will see that your "manic" episodes manifest much of the Seven Factors of Enlightenment.
Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga, sambojjhanaga)
1 Mindfulness & concentration sati 7th fold of N8P
2 Self-enquiry & Investigation of the way dhamma-vicaya siddhi
3 Energy viriya, vîrya/ Kundalini iddhi-páda
4 Bliss piiti 1st jhana
5 Tranquility passaddhi 2nd jhana
6 Absorption samadhi Jhana/samadhi 1-8
7 Equanimity upekkha 3rd jhana
What I see missing in your manic episodes is:
1 Mindfulness & concentration
2 Self-enquiry & Investigation of the way dhamma-vicaya siddhi
5 Tranquility passaddhi 2nd jhana
7 Equanimity upekkha 3rd jhana
Therefore, your work is to cultivate these 4 remaining Factors of Enlightenment. When you have developed them, then we can say that you are a full on mystic, not a proto-mystic.
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Jhananda:
I agree with much, if not all, of what your treatise states. However, there is more to it, and the Noble Eightfold Path is a good description of the more.
I'm curious, what do you disagree with in the treatise?
Jhananda:If we examine the Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga, sambojjhanaga) we will see that your "manic" episodes manifest much of the Seven Factors of Enlightenment.
Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga, sambojjhanaga)
1 Mindfulness & concentration sati 7th fold of N8P
2 Self-enquiry & Investigation of the way dhamma-vicaya siddhi
3 Energy viriya, vîrya/ Kundalini iddhi-páda
4 Bliss piiti 1st jhana
5 Tranquility passaddhi 2nd jhana
6 Absorption samadhi Jhana/samadhi 1-8
7 Equanimity upekkha 3rd jhana
What I see missing in your manic episodes is:
1 Mindfulness & concentration
2 Self-enquiry & Investigation of the way dhamma-vicaya siddhi
5 Tranquility passaddhi 2nd jhana
7 Equanimity upekkha 3rd jhana
Therefore, your work is to cultivate these 4 remaining Factors of Enlightenment. When you have developed them, then we can say that you are a full on mystic, not a proto-mystic.
As for the 1st factor, mindfulness & concentration, I think I know how to practice it. I try to do it as much as possible every moment even though there are many distractions throughout the day. I try to keep those distractions to a minimum. I do not want to have any friends that are not contemplatives. I try to be alone as much as possible. I live alone, I am a recluse by nature and I am very comfortable with my solitude. To me silence is a real pleasure, and I find it difficult and at times painful to speak or to be around none-contemplatives, they have nothing really interesting to say, and far too often try to engage me in useless idle chatter simply because they are uncomfortable with being silent or being around someone who is. The forum here is my connection to the people I choose to interact with. Anyways, I do frequent walking meditation sessions and sometimes I can achieve the 1st jhana, and then I'll do sitting meditation. Progress is slow, and there are many set backs, I sometimes have to relearn everything because for some reason the mind/body forgets. I find Eckhart Tolle's book "The Power of Now" to be an excellent guide on practicing mindfulness & concentration. He even uses the exact same term, the "Source", as in my treatise, "The wisdom of the Source", which was written in 1982. Seems everyone discovers the same thing and uses the same terminology when it comes to describing spiritual phenomena.
As for the 2nd factor, self-enquiry & investigation of the way, I have studied this closely, and regularly engage in self-enquiry. I question and examine the motivation for everything I do throughout the day, and see if I'm practicing the Eightfold Path, which is the subject of my investigation of the way.
As for the 5th factor, tranquility of the 2nd jhana, I'm not there yet, but I try to avoid patterns of thought and situations that cause angst and worry.
As for the 7th factor, equanimity of the 3rd jhana, even though I'm not there yet, I try to allow everything to happen without resistance, interference or thought. The attitude is everything is fine as it is, and I just have to accept everything. But of course there are exceptions, one cannot remain totally passive..
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I'm curious, what do you disagree with in the treatise?
The problem I have with your treatise is the tone. Where is the bliss (piiti), joy (sukha) and ecstasy (jhana)? Otherwise I agree with it.
As for the 1st factor, mindfulness & concentration, I think I know how to practice it. I try to do it as much as possible every moment even though there are many distractions throughout the day. I try to keep those distractions to a minimum.
Being mindful in every moment takes practice and discipline. It is good that you are making the effort. It will pay off.
I do not want to have any friends that are not contemplatives. I try to be alone as much as possible. I live alone, I am a recluse by nature, and I am very comfortable with my solitude. To me silence is a real pleasure, and I find it difficult, and at times painful, to speak to or be around none-contemplatives, they have nothing really interesting to say, and far too often try to engage me in useless idle chatter simply because they are uncomfortable with being silent, or being around someone who is. The forum here is my connection to the people I choose to interact with.
I am a recluse as well. People have not shown me much kindness are understanding, so I see no point in spending time with them.
Anyways, I do frequent walking meditation sessions, and sometimes I can achieve the 1st jhana, and then I'll do sitting meditation. Progress is slow, and there are many set backs, I sometimes have to relearn everything because for some reason the mind/body forgets.
Formal meditation practice is all part of the practice of sati. This is good.
I find Eckhart Tolle's book "The Power of Now" to be an excellent guide on practicing mindfulness & concentration. He even uses the exact same term, the "Source", as in my treatise, "The wisdom of the Source", which was written in 1982. Seems everyone discovers the same thing and uses the same terminology when it comes to describing spiritual phenomena.
The genuine mystics will all be saying the same thing. It is just the translators who too frequently get the translation wrong.
As for the 2nd factor, self-enquiry & investigation of the way, I have studied this closely, and regularly engage in self-enquiry. I question and examine the motivation for everything I do throughout the day, and see if I'm practicing the Eightfold Path, which is the subject of my investigation of the way.
Very good.
As for the 5th factor, tranquility of the 2nd jhana, I'm not there yet, but I try to avoid patterns of thought and situations that cause angst and worry.
As for the 7th factor, equanimity of the 3rd jhana, even though I'm not there yet, I try to allow everything to happen without resistance, interference or thought. The attitude is everything is fine as it is, and I just have to accept everything. But of course there are exceptions, one cannot remain totally passive..
Just living in the present, and practicing mindfulness will eventually pay off. It just takes time and patience and diligence.
I did find myself reflecting upon Emily Maguires lyrics, and your recent comments. Particularly the idea that you could ride a motor cycle across the ocean. Believing that you could do that is fantastic thinking, or it is also called 'magical thinking." We get these fantastic ideas from religion. All religions have their fantastic stories, so it is understandable that we would believe that if we are enlightened, then we should develop fantastic magical powers.
Following some of my most profound religious experiences I too thought, "well, if I am enlightened, then I should have fantastic magical powers, or at least the "source" would feed, cloth and meet my various needs. Well, of course, none of that happened, but I did test the hypothesis. Fortunately I did not starve to death waiting for the divine feed bag to show up, or for a community of sincere seekers to provide for me. Instead I went out and got a job.
So, at the core of delusional thinking is fantastic magical thinking. Every religion has its fantastic magical thinking, this is what we need to dump, while seeking to live an enlightened life.
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Jhananda:
The problem I have with your treatise is the tone. Where is the bliss (piiti), joy (sukha) and ecstasy (jhana)? Otherwise I agree with it.
When I wrote the actual treatise I was totally euphoric and blissed out with laughter. The synopsis of the actual treatise above doesn't convey that.
Jhananda:Following some of my most profound religious experiences I too thought, "well, if I am enlightened, then I should have fantastic magical powers, or at least the "source" would feed, cloth and meet my various needs. Well, of course, none of that happened, but I did test the hypothesis. Fortunately I did not starve to death waiting for the divine feed bag to show up, or for a community of sincere seekers to provide for me. Instead I went out and got a job.
So, at the core of delusional thinking is fantastic magical thinking. Every religion has its fantastic magical thinking, this is what we need to dump, while seeking to live an enlightened life.
The suttas are full of examples of magical powers, the fruits of attainment. Why is this so?
Michel: I find Eckhart Tolle's book "The Power of Now" to be an excellent guide on practicing mindfulness & concentration. He even uses the exact same term, the "Source", as in my treatise, "The wisdom of the Source", which was written in 1982. Seems everyone discovers the same thing and uses the same terminology when it comes to describing spiritual phenomena.
Jhananda: The genuine mystics will all be saying the same thing. It is just the translators who too frequently get the translation wrong.
Eckhart Tolle is highly influenced by Mahayana ideas. He also thinks that he's enlightened. Could one say that if one is enlightened one would reject many of the Mahayana ideas?
Jhananda:Fortunately I did not starve to death waiting for the divine feed bag to show up, or for a community of sincere seekers to provide for me. Instead I went out and got a job.
What a waste of precious time. I spent some 25 years doing meaningless work in the Canadian civil service. One of my psychiatrists tried to convince me that what I was doing there was important and interesting. I was only interested in having jobs that had the least amount of stress and responsibility. At night and on weekends I devoted my time to music, and reading the classics of literature. I especially enjoyed reading the Russian authors, from Chekhov to Tolstoy. As for spiritual books, I discovered J. Krishnamurti back in 1977. He talks about non-duality and the nature of reality. I found and still find his work to be opaque, but I do like his spirit of inquiry; it forced me to look closely at my own experience on important matters of the soul.
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When I wrote the actual treatise I was totally euphoric and blissed out with laughter. The synopsis of the actual treatise above doesn't convey that.
OK, so more of the factors of enlightenment were present.
The suttas are full of examples of magical powers, the fruits of attainment. Why is this so?
Considering the Siddhis, Occult, or Magic Powers of the Mystics (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/siddhis.htm)
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/HgJ0lHreWw8/default.jpg)
Miracles, psychic powers and fantastic claims in mysticism and shamanism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgJ0lHreWw8)
Eckhart Tolle is highly influenced by Mahayana ideas. He also thinks that he's enlightened. Could one say that if one is enlightened one would reject many of the Mahayana ideas?
I have found that Mahayana Buddhism is as much a fraud as most religions. Also, I have heard that Eckhart Tolle believes that he is "full on enlightened." However, all he talks about is at best the 2nd jhana, which is more attainment than any Buddhist priest I have met.
What a waste of precious time. I spent some 25 years doing meaningless work in the Canadian civil service. One of my psychiatrists tried to convince me that what I was doing there was important and interesting. I was only interested in having jobs that had the least amount of stress and responsibility. At night and on weekends I devoted my time to music, and reading the classics of literature. I especially enjoyed reading the Russian authors, from Chekhov to Tolstoy. As for spiritual books, I discovered J. Krishnamurti back in 1977. He talks about non-duality and the nature of reality. I found and still find his work to be opaque, but I do like his spirit of inquiry; it forced me to look closely at my own experience on important matters of the soul.
It sounds like you occupied yourself constructively; however, when the enlightened only have a job offered them, and there is not interest in what they say, while everyone is in mad pursuit of the 7 deadly sins, then we can conclude that we are in a hell plane.
I met J. Krishnamurti in 1976. I find most non-dualism is mostly just another head game. However, those who have genuine religious experiences tend to describe it in non-dual terms.