Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Case Histories with religious experiences => : Jhanon December 15, 2013, 08:26:58 PM
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Hi Friends :)
I will come out and say it right now that for the last two years I've been really enthusiastic and excited about finally finding my way (back) to the contemplative life. I am especially so because of finding the GWV. This is all kind of new to me, and admittedly exciting. And because of that, I apologize if at times if I am "too much". So much has been repressed for so long, and after 20 years of effort to find my way, suddenly everything has come together and come out like a big bang. I know I have a long way to go, still. This post will be long, but it is my sincere hope some will find it helpful, uplifting, comforting, and illuminating.
As a youth, being very happy, energetic, and told I was very intelligent, I was forced at the age of 7 to take Ritalin for "ADHD". This is a significant part of how I found Jhananda and the GWV. I read Michael's blog last week while continuing my 2 year search for credible jhana instruction and he made a comment about how society labels ecstatic individuals as ADHD and medicates them to fit in with the status quo--or something to that effect.
Anyway, I remember at the age of 5 thinking to myself "How can I be sure life isn't some kind of dream, and that everyone and everything else isn't also "me"?" This kind of thinking, my sensitivity, nearly limitless enthusiasm and curiosity is what landed me under this label of ADHD.
Born in a highly dysfunctional family of contemplatives who haven't realized they are contemplatives, and due to the unbalanced state that Ritalin and an inability to fit in with the rest of the herd caused; I gradually spiraled into a deep depression, and was eventually diagnosed with bi-polar depression, and generalized anxiety disorder. I tried to fit in, but what most people were interested in just seemed bland and superficial--something I didn't admit to myself until somewhat recently. This continued to create many other problems as well, such as finding almost no value in what everyone else expected me to do. I was miserable (and often suicidal) from the age of 10 to 25, during which time I spent over 15 years with therapists and psychiatrists, and over 20 different medications (none of which i found effective).
I remember my Mom asked me at 16 what I wanted to be, and at the time I was unaware of meditation, at least on a conscious level. I was also very confused due to repression of most of my early life. After being pressed for an answer, I told her I wanted to be a bum, which in retrospect I know I meant I wanted to become a recluse contemplative...
At 23 I lost my job, my home, my girlfriend, my car, and was trying to get on Social Security Disability so that I could sit and figure everything out (which never happened). Losing everything at 23 was not new to me. Despite how hard I tried with therapy, prescription drugs and alcohol to make worldly life easier, I could never sustain motivation for worldly life, no matter how hard I tried. And so I went through cycles of losing everything. This tends to happen to people diagnosed with "ADHD". And every person I have met like this is also intensely interested in drugs, psychedelics, and/or mystic states.
But this losing everything at 23 was preceded by discovering the teachings of the Buddha. As soon as I read it, despite the fact I could make no sense of it; I KNEW THIS WAS THE WAY OUT. I started to try to meditate, which consisted of me spending 5 minutes trying to get comfortable, and then 3-5 minutes of getting overwhelmed by thoughts and the discomfort of my highly-sensitive senses. I pretty much stopped meditating after a few tries.
I then started using illicit drugs which finally provided some relief. At the age of 26 I began researching the less-discussed forms of healing. Primarily that of psychedelics (can I say that? If not, please feel free to edit). After a few experiences, layers started peeling back. The relief was profound, and suddenly for the first time in over 12 years I began to realize what mattered to me. I spread what I knew to other people with similar difficulties.
I came across a psychedelic forum where some of us members were talking about microdosing. A couple of senior members commented that the others would be better off "tapping into the mind's endogenous psychedelics" through meditation. I did a little bit of research, and saw the link between psychedelics, healing, and meditation. I would then meditate 3-4 times a week for a few months. But a lack of quality study materials and guidance (as I'm sure you've all experienced) caused me to eventually give it up. I continued my psychedelic journey--which did lead to more healing. I began noticing charisms and experiencing kundalini while I listened to music.
Because of the kundalini I listened to music almost non-stop for a year, and it was also very healing. But sometimes I would just experience kundalini and other phenomena during regular moments. I didn't know exactly what it was, but all I knew was it felt amazing. The relief was like opening a gate from which tears of joy flowed often, and I could tell I was healing--this was something important. But there was still some competition between the worldly "young adult" and the ecstatic kid I was at 6 and 7. I tried to utilize this transformation to do worldly things, but another side of me was pulled strongly to meditation and non-physical phenomena. The psychedelic use began to fall away, and I then came across "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle.
I was reading about what he calls the "Inner Body" (a tingling feeling in my hands and feet that I noticed after I finished a few psych journeys), and he was basically walking the reader along in getting in touch with it throughout the body. Then it came to where he instructs the reader to feel it as "one field of energy"; the tingling increased more and more and more, past the limit I thought it would have. I was caught by surprise. My jaw dropped, my mind stopped, and an intensely powerful and blissful kundalini shot down my spin--sending intensifying shockwaves into the energy body vibrations.
My eyes were still open, but I was only seeing light. It was pure ecstasy. Then intuitive insights began to come, faster and faster, and they seemed to magnify the rest of the effects. When it was over, tears of intense relief came. I felt like I had finally returned to the home I didn't realize I had been searching for. Still feeling the kundalini energy in my body, I went downstairs to my friend who had hurt his back and stayed home for the day. Intuitively, I focused on feeling/sending energy from my body into my left hand, then briefly touched his back where it hurt (without letting on to what I was doing or what had happened). He immediately told me that his intense pain strangely disappeared.
It is then that I reflected that a few months ago I had briefly met a person who I somehow knew was special. We had a brief chat, and as I walked away she told me my name (real name) meant "healer". The thought of finding the most powerful way to heal others brought an intense feeling of satisfaction to me. I later healed others with profound success a few other times with other people. Or at least I can't explain their healing otherwise, and I did intentionally make efforts to heal them. I began to connect kundalini with the possibility to heal others.
From that very point I was intent of finding a way to access this whenever I wanted, or even be in that state all day long. I wanted to feel good, and I wanted to heal others. I kept the tactile charism in my awareness all day for 2-3 months, meditated often (with a couple 1st jhana experiences) and I experienced many similar phenomena, but not the super strong kundalini I yearned for. And because of that, I hadn't yet realize I had entered meditative absorption a couple times.
I also watched myself sleep a few times, but was barely aware that it wasn't a dream until I reflected on it later. A few times I also woke up with an intense tactile vibration in my body (which also turned out to be jhana). A couple of those times a milky white light grew to cover my visual field, and I became terrified because I could feel myself somehow being threatened. At the time it seemed some of my identity was going to be destroyed if I continued to place my awareness on the light. I was scared, jumped up and had a couple shots--much to my disappointment immediately afterward.
Then worldly life happened, and I stopped focusing on the charism throughout the day. But I continued to meditate. I spent about a year searching through all the bogus books on meditation, and only a couple brief jhana experiences (again, I wasn't sure it was jhana yet.)
For these last 5 months, I have been considering ordaining, although I couldn't find the confidence to do it because something didn't feel right about the best monasteries I could find. They didn't seem to really know much about jhana or mystical experiences that I had had.
Last week I found out I would have at least a week with minimal obligations in which I determined to meditate and study only. I don't normally do this sort of thing, but I asked in my mind "If I am meant to ordain, please give me a sign this week." I figured, what the hell? What could it hurt. In the back of my mind I wanted jhana as that confirmation. Less than 30 minutes later I came across Michael's blog. That same night I found the GWV. The next day I reviewed the GWV site, asked Jhananda some questions, and that night I attained, beyond a shadow of a doubt, jhana. And since then I have consistently attained it every time I meditate, as well as enjoyed a mild-moderate saturation throughout the day. Needless to say, I have nothing but good things to say so far about Jeffrey and the GWV.
Since then I've learned so much. I finally know where my heart has been (ecstatic contemplation), and I understand so much about my nature that could never make sense before. I felt like I was broken, and that I would never find others like me, but now I know differently. This is just from looking over the videos, essays, listening to the retreat audio, and looking over some of you on the forum. Thanks to meditation, contemplation, and morality, I've left almost all addiction to substances behind.
Meditation Method and the Deepest Jhana
This thread you're reading now is for record of my mystical experiences from this point forward, as I began entering jhana consistently about 5 days ago, thanks to Jeffrey and Michael.
Method
The method I used which brought me to jhana: First I would calm the mind, if it needed it. I did this by body scanning and or watching the breath--both with sensitivity to pleasant feelings. Soon I would notice a tingling in my hands and feet. It took me a little over a year of solid study and experimenting with various techniques to settle on this technique as best. I would focus on the tingling in hands or feet, and if fortunate, it would begin to manifest in my chakras and feet which the calmness of mind necessary would allow my awareness to expand and encompass them as well. The tingling relieves pain in relation to how strong the pain and tingling/vibration is.
But these days I rarely spend time on the breath. I usually end up laying, as I don't fall asleep easily, and my knees/back are still "westernized"--so it's challenging to meditate for long. Although I can see that changing soon due to my recent progress.
So I lay down, and start focusing on the tingling in my hands (and at first only feel the tingling in my feet in background awareness sometimes). The tingling is always at least a little bit there due to consistent and daily jhana experiences, as well as making an effort to keep my awareness focusing on the tingling throughout the day. Just watching it throughout the day, and making it a priority due to it's pleasant benefits, has yielded profound benefits in how i navigate daily life.
It's so fulfilling and relieving just to think about it. I get rushes of light kundalini rushing down my spine radiating throughout my body just thinking of the progress that has finally begun. But this kundalini presently experienced is also aided by the way my heart opens when I listen to some music such as what I am currently listening to as i write http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HED_E1Oy9s . I hope I can learn to tap into the qualities of heart and kundalini more without music and during jhana--because of everything I will describe below,--they are the qualities most subtle, and yet most longed for. The sense of joy i feel in jhana is very subtle, and I believe it is related to this.
Anyway, I keep watch over the "grip" on the tingling both with my primary awareness and background awareness. If any tension arises in the body, I know I am gripping too hard, and will loosen it back up. This also serves to progressively relax the body and mind. As they do, the tingling increases in intensity and begins to manifest in the upper 4 chakras. As the mind/body relaxes, the intensity of the chakras, hands and feet grows to send these tingling vibrations spreading all over the body. Once it becomes a nearly "solid" vibration throughout the body, I have come to currently observe this as a solid 1st jhana.
When I then focus my awareness on my heart, and sincerely think "May all beings be happy" while envisioning as many beings as I can, a strong, comforting warmth, like the purest heavenly opiate, comes on. It seems the more my heart is noble and open, the more warmth I receive (we get what we give?). What has been said so far is what most of my limited experience of jhana is like in varying intensity. However, some have been deeper....
Latest Strong Jhana
Two nights ago I was meditating in bed, which are, in my 4 or 5 days of jhana, the best meditations I have. This was the most strong jhana I have ever had. I will attempt to explain it the best I can.
It began as usual with the tactile tingling charism which grew in strength until it got really strong and I began detecting three different frequencies of extremely strong vibrations emitting from the hands, feet, chakras, and shockwaving throughout the body. The feet and hands were so strong that at points it was almost painful (which I see has been mentioned by others). The top of my head was throbbing, as if there was a hole at the tallest peak of my head that was pumping (maybe feeling the heart?). There was also a relatively moderate sense of warmth throughout the body.
I heard 4 different auditory charisms. Whirring, water falling, ringing, and some kind of distorted rushing sound--all at once. No nose or tongue charisms that I can recall.
Then....and this is the weird and unexpected part; I had a vision of being intimately entertained by a beautiful brunette woman. This wasn't sex, but intuitively I knew it to be intimate (and she wasn't wearing much either). I noticed a powerful ominous woman speaking--although I couldn't quite make out what she was saying because I was caught a little bit off guard by how immersing this was. The voice didn't appear to be coming from the woman in my visual field as it was much louder and was coming from the center of the head.
(I was hesitant to post this for what follows, but Jhananda encouraged me to)Then she touched my knee, and as she did, time progressively slowed to a crawl and then stopped. Suddenly awareness was directed toward the genitalia either by me or by "something", and a sense of anticipation occurred. Instantly, all the charisms peaked in intensity and frequency and I passed through a progressively bright light that covered all the vision. Then it was over. Suffice it to say, for me this was profound. When I opened my eyes, they were welling up.
It was my intuition afterward that the last part of my awareness being directed and subsequent anticipation was why I lost the jhana--although I had been meditating for about 1.5 hours by that point which is my longest yet.
My initial impression, simply because I can't imagine I would make it past the 1st jhana any time soon; was that it was a very strong first jhana. But now I am starting to question that. Jhana continues to surprise me. Looking back, and observing subsequent meditations, it was at least second jhana, as the mind stuck with it without effort. I think it may have even been third jhana, as I've heard mention that 3rd jhana has many charisms.
Does this sort of thing happen in Jhana? Do "tests" happen in jhana? Which jhana does this seem to be? I never, ever, would expect some kind of sensual vision to appear, especially because my daily mind is not inclined that way.
I hope the weekend is treating you well, friends :) Please feel free to share your observations.
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You had quite the meditation experience. I can't asses any of it since I've only experienced the 1st Jhana, except that it's way beyond the 1st jhana. I experience kundalini energies in my head, never the body like you have, and at times it can be quite intense, but nothing like you describe.
I wonder if it is a good idea to focus on the vision of the woman you experienced? Everything seemed to fall apart at that point. It will be interesting to hear what the boss thinks.
Fascinating experience you had. Thank-you for sharing, I've learned from it.
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I wonder if it is a good idea to focus on the vision of the woman you experienced? Everything seemed to fall apart at that point. It will be interesting to hear what the boss thinks.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by focus on the vision? You mean in subsequent meditations?
I also would like to see what Jhananda and other senior meditators have to say.
I'm going through your case history currently, Michel, and will comment when I've finished. So far the primary mention would be that the charisms really seem to be a meditators best friend, as I'm sure you've seen in my history.
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I just meditated on the bed again (although it's not evening yet), and found that keeping the breathing in the background awareness appeared to facilitate relaxing and therefor deepening of the state at a quicker rate. 2nd jhana within 40 minutes--total meditation time 56 minutes.
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I think I found some of Jhananda's reply already in your case history, Michel:
Jhananda, are you familiar with the case when one is with the breath for about let's say 20-30 minutes, and suddenly one thinks about sexual exciting thoughts, but is still with the breath and then a rush of piti invades the body and "shakes" you a little bit? (the trigger in this case is the sexual thoughts)
Should stuff like this be avoided?
The hypersensitive phase tends to come after the 2nd jhana. It is characterized by a number of things. One of those things is the mind seems to get even less controlled, and one can start having out of control sexual fantasies etc.
Then....and this is the weird and unexpected part; I had a vision of being intimately entertained by a beautiful brunette woman. This wasn't sex, but intuitively I knew it to be intimate (and she wasn't wearing much either). I noticed a powerful ominous woman speaking--although I couldn't quite make out what she was saying because I was caught a little bit off guard by how immersing this was. The voice didn't appear to be coming from the woman in my visual field as it was much louder and was coming from the center of the head.
(I was hesitant to post this for what follows, but Jhananda encouraged me to)Then she touched my knee, and as she did, time progressively slowed to a crawl and then stopped. Suddenly awareness was directed toward the genitalia either by me or by "something", and a sense of anticipation occurred. Instantly, all the charisms peaked in intensity and frequency and I passed through a progressively bright light that covered all the vision. Then it was over. Suffice it to say, for me this was profound. When I opened my eyes, they were welling up.
I think it may have even been third jhana, as I've heard mention that 3rd jhana has many charisms.
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Meditation Method and the Deepest Jhana
Method
The method I used which brought me to jhana: First I would calm the mind, if it needed it. I did this by body scanning and or watching the breath--both with sensitivity to pleasant feelings. Soon I would notice a tingling in my hands and feet. It took me a little over a year of solid study and experimenting with various techniques to settle on this technique as best. I would focus on the tingling in hands or feet, and if fortunate, it would begin to manifest in my chakras and feet which the calmness of mind necessary would allow my awareness to expand and encompass them as well. The tingling relieves pain in relation to how strong the pain and tingling/vibration is.
But these days I rarely spend time on the breath. I usually end up laying, as I don't fall asleep easily, and my knees/back are still "westernized"--so it's challenging to meditate for long. Although I can see that changing soon due to my recent progress.
So I lay down, and start focusing on the tingling in my hands (and at first only feel the tingling in my feet in background awareness sometimes). The tingling is always at least a little bit there due to consistent and daily jhana experiences, as well as making an effort to keep my awareness focusing on the tingling throughout the day. Just watching it throughout the day, and making it a priority due to it's pleasant benefits, has yielded profound benefits in how i navigate daily life.
It's so fulfilling and relieving just to think about it. I get rushes of light kundalini rushing down my spine radiating throughout my body just thinking of the progress that has finally begun. But this kundalini presently experienced is also aided by the way my heart opens when I listen to some music such as what I am currently listening to as i write http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HED_E1Oy9s . I hope I can learn to tap into the qualities of heart and kundalini more without music and during jhana--because of everything I will describe below,--they are the qualities most subtle, and yet most longed for. The sense of joy i feel in jhana is very subtle, and I believe it is related to this.
Nice music. I have added it to my collection of favorite contemplative music, but I think it would be 4x better on CD listening to it with studio grade headphones.
Anyway, I keep watch over the "grip" on the tingling both with my primary awareness and background awareness. If any tension arises in the body, I know I am gripping too hard, and will loosen it back up. This also serves to progressively relax the body and mind. As they do, the tingling increases in intensity and begins to manifest in the upper 4 chakras. As the mind/body relaxes, the intensity of the chakras, hands and feet grows to send these tingling vibrations spreading all over the body. Once it becomes a nearly "solid" vibration throughout the body, I have come to currently observe this as a solid 1st jhana.
When I then focus my awareness on my heart, and sincerely think "May all beings be happy" while envisioning as many beings as I can, a strong, comforting warmth, like the purest heavenly opiate, comes on. It seems the more my heart is noble and open, the more warmth I receive (we get what we give?). What has been said so far is what most of my limited experience of jhana is like in varying intensity. However, some have been deeper....
This is very good meditation technique. It is essentially what I have practiced for 40 years, so keep it up, because I know it will pay off big. It seems to me that you are ariving more at the 3rd jhana, than the 1st, because the charisms are more typical of the 3rd jhana, and deep relaxation is more typical of the 2nd jhana, and my guess is you have no trouble stilling your mind, which is the 2nd jhana.
Latest Strong Jhana
Two nights ago I was meditating in bed, which are, in my 4 or 5 days of jhana, the best meditations I have. This was the most strong jhana I have ever had. I will attempt to explain it the best I can.
It began as usual with the tactile tingling charism which grew in strength until it got really strong and I began detecting three different frequencies of extremely strong vibrations emitting from the hands, feet, chakras, and shockwaving throughout the body. The feet and hands were so strong that at points it was almost painful (which I see has been mentioned by others). The top of my head was throbbing, as if there was a hole at the tallest peak of my head that was pumping (maybe feeling the heart?). There was also a relatively moderate sense of warmth throughout the body.
I heard 4 different auditory charisms. Whirring, water falling, ringing, and some kind of distorted rushing sound--all at once. No nose or tongue charisms that I can recall.
This is classic 3rd jhana.
Then....and this is the weird and unexpected part; I had a vision of being intimately entertained by a beautiful brunette woman. This wasn't sex, but intuitively I knew it to be intimate (and she wasn't wearing much either). I noticed a powerful ominous woman speaking--although I couldn't quite make out what she was saying because I was caught a little bit off guard by how immersing this was. The voice didn't appear to be coming from the woman in my visual field as it was much louder and was coming from the center of the head.
(I was hesitant to post this for what follows, but Jhananda encouraged me to), Then she touched my knee, and as she did, time progressively slowed to a crawl and then stopped. Suddenly awareness was directed toward the genitalia either by me or by "something", and a sense of anticipation occurred. Instantly, all the charisms peaked in intensity and frequency and I passed through a progressively bright light that covered all the vision.
At this point you are in the 4th jhana and moving well into the immaterial domains (ayatanas).
There can be quite some confusions about apparent sexual content in deep meditation. The reality is if one were to go into the heavenly host (deva loca) one will experience it, as I have, as so intensely blissful as to be orgasmic. The truth is sex is a very crude physical world counter part to bliss experienced on the spiritual dimension.
This reminds me that the last arahatta in Buddhism was around 1st century BC. He was shamed by the pretentious priesthood of his time, because somehow they found out he had a wet dream. The reality is, sometimes a mystic can have such a profoundly blissful experience on the immaterial domains, that the body might have an emission. Oh well, so what.
Then it was over. Suffice it to say, for me this was profound. When I opened my eyes, they were welling up.
It was my intuition afterward that the last part of my awareness being directed and subsequent anticipation was why I lost the jhana--although I had been meditating for about 1.5 hours by that point which is my longest yet.
My initial impression, simply because I can't imagine I would make it past the 1st jhana any time soon; was that it was a very strong first jhana. But now I am starting to question that. Jhana continues to surprise me. Looking back, and observing subsequent meditations, it was at least second jhana, as the mind stuck with it without effort. I think it may have even been third jhana, as I've heard mention that 3rd jhana has many charisms.
Does this sort of thing happen in Jhana? Do "tests" happen in jhana? Which jhana does this seem to be? I never, ever, would expect some kind of sensual vision to appear, especially because my daily mind is not inclined that way.
I hope the weekend is treating you well, friends :) Please feel free to share your observations.
You had an encounter with 2 angels (devas) on the immaterial domains (ayatana/5th samadhi). Take it as a great blessing, and you did no wrong. If you are diligent, then you will have many more such encounters, and much, much better ones. Good work, keep it up.
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Nice music. I have added it to my collection of favorite contemplative music, but I think it would be 4x better on CD listening to it with studio grade headphones.
I am pleased that you like it, and I agree. I have a Pandora radio station I've been working on for a while that is filled with music of similar style, as it's all I really listen to anymore. It is free (there are short advertisements every song or three), unless you pay for a year membership which is under 50 bucks, has CD quality and I have always found it worth the money. This is how I find all the music I listen to. I will message it to you.
This is very good meditation technique. It is essentially what I have practiced for 40 years, so keep it up, because I know it will pay off big. It seems to me that you are ariving more at the 3rd jhana, than the 1st, because the charisms are more typical of the 3rd jhana, and deep relaxation is more typical of the 2nd jhana, and my guess is you have no trouble stilling your mind, which is the 2nd jhana.
I would hope it is good, because I learned it mostly from you! :) When I read the GWV site essays, it all made perfect sense to me in reflection of my past experiences. I implemented, attained jhana, and then everything began to make sense and fall into place. With the basic building blocks and understanding in place, furthering the practice was much easier. Again, my deepest gratitude for this priceless service you've done me.
This is classic 3rd jhana.
That is fantastic news!
At this point you are in the 4th jhana and moving well into the immaterial domains (ayatanas).
There can be quite some confusions about apparent sexual content in deep meditation. The reality is if one were to go into the heavenly host (deva loca) one will experience it, as I have, as so intensely blissful as to be orgasmic. The truth is sex is a very crude physical world counter part to bliss experienced on the spiritual dimension.
This reminds me that the last arahatta in Buddhism was around 1st century BC. He was shamed by the pretentious priesthood of his time, because somehow they found out he had a wet dream. The reality is, sometimes a mystic can have such a profoundly blissful experience on the immaterial domains, that the body might have an emission. Oh well, so what.
What is deva loca? I don't see any information on Google, although I could look harder.
And yes, I think especially if a mystic is celibate, this increases the likelihood of these experiences and emissions. It saddens me that there seems to be such rampant close-mindedness on this planet. I am not looking down on the people--It's just that there is so much to experience, learn and to enjoy with an open mind.
You had an encounter with 2 angels (devas) on the immaterial domains (ayatana/5th samadhi). Take it as a great blessing, and you did no wrong. If you are diligent, then you will have many more such encounters, and much, much better ones. Good work, keep it up.
What!? And thank you :) I have read that once one breaks ground with jhana, progress can be swift. But this is far more than I anticipated. Your observation has caused me to comb through the experience again, and some additional details have surfaced that challenge my prior study of the immaterial experience.
1)I remember the experience had a bright white/pink light throughout. Like you would if the mid-day sun was shining on your closed eye -lids.
2)This woman, to the best of my memory, appeared to be just a human woman. I even seem to remember her wearing a black bra. Although I admit I have no idea what a deva looks like, and she was the most beautiful woman I have ever experienced. Everything about her was "perfect" in terms of my preferences in women. This is what initially caused me to think it was a self-made vision, if such a thing exists.
3)I appeared to be in some sort of living room not unlike that of one here on earth. There was a large window behind her, and what seemed to be a couch up against that window. Although because perception relies on comparison and I have no experience of the immaterial, it is possible this is why I seem to remember earthly qualities?
4)I now seem to recall that once I began hearing this ominous voice I actually opened my eyes to check if I was somehow being spoken to in physical plane but couldn't understand it because I was so deep. I seem to recall seeing the room I was meditating in, then closing my eyes again. I could be mistaken that it happened earlier before I had the vision.But, Is this possible while in 5th samadhi?
5) I have read that kundalini (my favorite phenomena so far) occurs in 3rd or 4th jhana, and that it precedes the immaterial attainment. And also that moving from 4th to 5th takes courage to let go of the body, and in my past similar experiences I have been too frightened to do so. Although I do not recall any sense of the body during the Vision(except for opening my eyes briefly) I do not recall any kundalini or fear. Although there was a moment when the charisms were peaking that immediately preceded the vision where I don't recall what happened.
6) I anticipated that entering the immaterial would give me a sense of "Home", but I do not recall this feeling.
I can't be certain about these details because the experience was so unique, but I feel rather certain about most of them. The reason for this fuzziness on details is very possibly related to perception or awareness failing me.
Will you please help me reconcile this? The thought that these were ACTUAL beings is just awe-some :)
THANK YOU
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I am pleased that you like it, and I agree. I have a Pandora radio station I've been working on for a while that is filled with music of similar style, as it's all I really listen to anymore. It is free (there are short advertisements every song or three), unless you pay for a year membership which is under 50 bucks, has CD quality and I have always found it worth the money. This is how I find all the music I listen to. I will message it to you.
Feel free to post a link to your radio station in Art of the Mystic (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/board,50.0.html). I am sure others here will enjoy your music choices, as I do.
What is deva loca? I don't see any information on Google, although I could look harder.
The Deva Loca, appears throughout Indic literature. It is variably translated as the deva-plane, deva realm, deva planet, etc. It is the equivalent to our concept of heaven.
And yes, I think especially if a mystic is celibate, this increases the likelihood of these experiences and emissions. It saddens me that there seems to be such rampant close-mindedness on this planet. I am not looking down on the people--It's just that there is so much to experience, learn and to enjoy with an open mind.
Well, I agree. What do you call a place where mystics are commonly marginalized, and even martyred? It would be best called "hell."
What!? And thank you :) I have read that once one breaks ground with jhana, progress can be swift. But this is far more than I anticipated.
Yes. This is why the attainment of jhana is called "stream entry," because jhana is the stream. When one enters the stream there is no going back, and like a current, it will carry one across the torrent, ocean, to the other side.
Your observation has caused me to comb through the experience again, and some additional details have surfaced that challenge my prior study of the immaterial experience.
1)I remember the experience had a bright white/pink light throughout. Like you would if the mid-day sun was shining on your closed eye -lids.
Luminosity is one of the characteristics of deep meditation. The deeper we go, the brighter it gets.
2)This woman, to the best of my memory, appeared to be just a human woman. I even seem to remember her wearing a black bra. Although I admit I have no idea what a deva looks like, and she was the most beautiful woman I have ever experienced. Everything about her was "perfect" in terms of my preferences in women. This is what initially caused me to think it was a self-made vision, if such a thing exists.
Well, the experience could have been a self-made vision, fantasy; however, the other details did not read like that. If you were at a deeper/higher point in this encounter, then she would have only been a point of light, and there would have been no gender. At the lower realms of the immaterial domains there is still some cognitive ability remaining, so it interprets the experience in terms of the creature having the experience.
I have had many such encounters over the 40 years of my contemplative life. I am reminded of the dream sequences in the movie Brazil. He becomes obsessed with the woman. He eventually meets her. She is nothing like the dream, but he pursues her. She is a revolutionary, and he lives in an oppressive, authoritarian society, like ours, so he is eventually arrested as a terrorist and tortured to death.
Also, I saw another movie that had similar dream sequences. I cannot recall the name of the movie, but it is about a studio musician who starts having dreams, like the one you had. He becomes obsessed with the woman in the dream and eventually sees her on a billboard. He tracks her down, and gets a date with her, but she is, again, nothing like in his dreams. The woman is played by Penelope Cruz.
3)I appeared to be in some sort of living room not unlike that of one here on earth. There was a large window behind her, and what seemed to be a couch up against that window. Although because perception relies on comparison and I have no experience of the immaterial, it is possible this is why I seem to remember earthly qualities?
The material plane details are irrelevant.
4)I now seem to recall that once I began hearing this ominous voice I actually opened my eyes to check if I was somehow being spoken to in physical plane but couldn't understand it because I was so deep. I seem to recall seeing the room I was meditating in, then closing my eyes again. I could be mistaken that it happened earlier before I had the vision.But, Is this possible while in 5th samadhi?
It is atypical, but possible.
5) I have read that kundalini (my favorite phenomena so far) occurs in 3rd or 4th jhana, and that it precedes the immaterial attainment. And also that moving from 4th to 5th takes courage to let go of the body, and in my past similar experiences I have been too frightened to do so. Although I do not recall any sense of the body during the Vision(except for opening my eyes briefly) I do not recall any kundalini or fear. Although there was a moment when the charisms were peaking that immediately preceded the vision where I don't recall what happened.
The classic rush of energy typifying the kundalini experience does not always accompany the movement through the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi). The religious experience (samadhi) can often times be frightening, because we live in a culture that negates these experiences, there is no context for them, or if there is, then the context is associated with demon possession.
6) I anticipated that entering the immaterial would give me a sense of "Home", but I do not recall this feeling.
In the lower realms of the immaterial domains there is more a sense of beauty and power, and love.
I can't be certain about these details because the experience was so unique, but I feel rather certain about most of them. The reason for this fuzziness on details is very possibly related to perception or awareness failing me.
Will you please help me reconcile this? The thought that these were ACTUAL beings is just awe-some :)
THANK YOU
The immaterial domains are typically experienced when most of the cognitive processes have come to rest. So, we have little mental process there to help us out. It is best to just experience it in its raw details, then journal, and/or analyze it afterwards. I hope this response helps.
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Yes, Jhananda, I agree, especially in comparison the the heavenly realms, that this is a hell realm.
It sounds like you think I have attained stream entry?
I don't think that experience was a self-made fantasy. I've been over it many times, and I'm certain it wasn't. IT was too interactive, immersing, and real to be self-made.
Your response was very helpful. Thank you. I'm sorry it took so long for me to respond to it.
I'm a little bit bummed I haven't had anything else to "write home" about lately. I haven't had the best circumstances--but I've been trying to make them.
I am still accessing 1st jhana 100%, 2nd jhana 80%, and 3rd jhana 25-45% of the time. It's mostly coming down to whether I have enough time for a long meditation, or enough alertness to stay fully aware throughout the session.
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Yes, Jhananda, I agree, especially in comparison the the heavenly realms, that this is a hell realm.
A place that does not respect its mystics is surely hell.
It sounds like you think I have attained stream entry?
We have to ask ourselves, "What is the stream?" When we begin to have the religious experience that is the stream. Since you have begun to have religious experiences, then you are a stream-winner. Now follow the stream to arahatship.
I don't think that experience was a self-made fantasy. I've been over it many times, and I'm certain it wasn't. IT was too interactive, immersing, and real to be self-made.
Your response was very helpful. Thank you. I'm sorry it took so long for me to respond to it.
It read like a valid religious experience, so I took as such. I see no reason why not to accept your description as an authentic record of the religious experience.
I'm a little bit bummed I haven't had anything else to "write home" about lately. I haven't had the best circumstances--but I've been trying to make them.
I am still accessing 1st jhana 100%, 2nd jhana 80%, and 3rd jhana 25-45% of the time. It's mostly coming down to whether I have enough time for a long meditation, or enough alertness to stay fully aware throughout the session.
Good to know that you are consistently accessing some of the stages of the religious experience. A mystic is never satisfied until he or she has completely annahilated oneself in the religious experience.
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It sounds like you think I have attained stream entry?
We have to ask ourselves, "What is the stream?" When we begin to have the religious experience that is the stream. Since you have begun to have religious experiences, then you are a stream-winner. Now follow the stream to arahatship.
I don't intend to get hung up on this, but I certainly want to take at least one moment to appreciate the accomplishment. I've just realized, that about a year ago, before I really knew what I was doing, and before I had strong confidence it could be done, I vowed I would at least attain stream-entry before I died. I don't often accomplish goals I set out for myself, for various reasons. So it feels good to know I am making progress, and actually exceeding my expectations. Based on your understanding, does this mean I am now safe from the realms below this one, as I believe it states in the suttas?
I do not intend to "kick back" now that I've attained stream entry. I intend to attain to your level :)
I'm a little bit bummed I haven't had anything else to "write home" about lately. I haven't had the best circumstances--but I've been trying to make them.
I am still accessing 1st jhana 100%, 2nd jhana 80%, and 3rd jhana 25-45% of the time. It's mostly coming down to whether I have enough time for a long meditation, or enough alertness to stay fully aware throughout the session.
Good to know that you are consistently accessing some of the stages of the religious experience. A mystic is never satisfied until he or she has completely annahilated oneself in the religious experience.
Damn right. If it's true that stream entry means I am at least safe from the realms below this one, and it is certainly true how instrumental your guidance was in attaining it, I wonder how good it must feel to know what you (and the GWV!) have done for me. I wonder if there is a way to review the life of another, like how some NDE's report "life reviews" or "life flashes before my eyes". I can only imagine how satisfying it must be to review all the suffering, and then the liberating moments of attainment. Like a doctor saving a life, and being allowed to witness the suffering leading up the crucial moment of saving. But maybe I'm just romanticizing.
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I don't intend to get hung up on this, but I certainly want to take at least one moment to appreciate the accomplishment. I've just realized, that about a year ago, before I really knew what I was doing, and before I had strong confidence it could be done, I vowed I would at least attain stream-entry before I died. I don't often accomplish goals I set out for myself, for various reasons. So it feels good to know I am making progress, and actually exceeding my expectations. Based on your understanding, does this mean I am now safe from the realms below this one, as I believe it states in the suttas?
I do not intend to "kick back" now that I've attained stream entry. I intend to attain to your level :)
No one has guaranteed safety unless one continues to live the contemplative lifestyle, because it is a lifestyle that produces liberation and enlightenment, not a belief system.
Damn right. If it's true that stream entry means I am at least safe from the realms below this one, and it is certainly true how instrumental your guidance was in attaining it, I wonder how good it must feel to know what you (and the GWV!) have done for me. I wonder if there is a way to review the life of another, like how some NDE's report "life reviews" or "life flashes before my eyes". I can only imagine how satisfying it must be to review all the suffering, and then the liberating moments of attainment. Like a doctor saving a life, and being allowed to witness the suffering leading up the crucial moment of saving. But maybe I'm just romanticizing.
When you begin to recollect your previous lifetimes, then you will not just recall it, but relive the whole lifetime in a moment. It will most likely blow your mind. And, just think, you have lots of lifetimes to relive.
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Been a while since I recorded my meditation efforts. I'm unsure if it was this thread or the blog thread in which I recorded my meditations. I'm just going to move forward, and request it be moved if necessary.
I need to confess I've not meditated very much over the last 6 or so months. I live in an apartment now with youthful non-mystics and their children. When I'm home, I have headphones in my ears most of the time because all the noise and lack of peaceful energy. I am surprised just how unpleasant it is to live with meditation developed senses among those who don't. This has been one of the primary challenges, and a source for my own foul language--lol. Rather than carrying my annoyances, I express them comically via profanity.
Recently I began to gain momentum. A few nights when I laid in bed, I would meditate until my ADHD medication ran out and I fell asleep. One of which I distinctly remember dropping into 4th jhana in what was less than 10 minutes. It was so fast, that I actually was frightened away. It was like a spiritual skydive. It was thrilling and helped me feel as though my development hadn't gotten rusty.
However, in the last couple weeks I've meditated about an hour each day. And these meditations have been less than satisfactory. In the beginning, I yo-yo between 1st and 2nd jhana about 6 or 7 times. Then about 20 mins into this, I drop into 3rd jhana. There is, however, a recurring issue getting in the way that I had difficulty with in the past. And that is my "grip."
It's quite challenging to balance the grip. First I'm noticing body tension from concentrating too hard, and them my mind is wandering to other charism/perspectives. Back and forth like this. Around 50 minutes in, things stabalize at around 3rd jhana. But I can't seem to make progress beyond this. It may be because I only meditate for about an hour or so.
Meditation sessions aren't as enjoyable as they used to be. I think this reflects an overall acclimation to the first 4 jhanas, as that is where most of my meditations are. So, while I do wish to leave my body and enjoy the latter samadhi's, it's still good to know that the earlier jhanas are no longer even slightly intimidating nor cause any anxiety (fight or flight.) This suggests to me that when I do get opportunities to leave my body or experience some of the more dazzling and intense charisms, I will meet them with joy instead of the apprehension of the past.
Getting a good session in is tricky if just considering other tenants traffic and activity alone. I can't just lie still and do my thing. Adjustments have to be made during meditations so as to not destroy the process, but pause it for a moment while I re-optimize those conditions.
I long for astral exploration. For having my mind blown with insight. For blasts of intense ecstasy and bliss. These have not been in my life much since I had that first explosion of progress during initial samadhi establishment upon discovering GWV. I am hoping that renewing meditation as a daily 1.5 hour practice will get me back to those doors I so often peaked through back then.
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Good to read from you again, Jhanon. Life has many ups and downs, and so does the contemplative life, and thus so do the religious experiences. Those who wish to mediate deeply must organize their life around the contemplative life to make it a full time occupation. This can be very difficult to work out, and can take many years of investigation. Good luck with your efforts.
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Yes, yes--you are correct. I've always struggled with adapting to worldly changes, and whenever a big one happens--like a move, it takes quite some time for my mind to settle down enough to meditate well.
Thanks for the guidance, mast-uh. Oh, I wrote another piece for my Philosophy class. This one is about life after death, and I delved deeper into my personal experiences with mediation to write it. Let me know if you'd like to read it, as it will help me ensure I am representing us accurately.
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Thanks for the guidance, mast-uh. Oh, I wrote another piece for my Philosophy class. This one is about life after death, and I delved deeper into my personal experiences with mediation to write it. Let me know if you'd like to read it, as it will help me ensure I am representing us accurately.
You could always post it here for all to read, and comment upon.
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Mmmmmm, maybe. I'm unsure. For now, I just want to update my meditation records.
Meditation Time: 6pm
Length: 1hr 20mins
Mindset: Relatively Relaxed
Okay, so, I've been trying to "get back on the horse" for the last week or two. Today was perhaps the most successful meditation since doing so. It wasn't particularly busy in the charism department like other recent meditations, but it was one of those long lesson kind of meditations.
Throughout the session, I found myself remembering to and practicing the observe/reason/correct/sustain motions of meditation. In other words, the lessons I learned in the first burst of samadhi I had about a year ago came back, and I re-learned them.
It started off usual enough. From the moment I set myself in position, I began to feel the tingling in my hands/wrists and legs/feet that I identify as tactile charism, subtle body, immaterial body, or whatever you like to call it. Progress was slow, steady, and at the usual rate of absorption mechanics.
Unfortunately, due to the traffic of where I live, only the tactile charism was most defined throughout, as the rest of the sense-charisms I usually experience (audio and visual) were occasionally intruded on. For the first 1/5th or so, the mind was just following the breath and tactile charism as it slowly built strength. I remembered to let go while maintaining a balanced "grip" of attention on the legs and hands while allowing room for it to spread into the rest of the body.
The second 1/5th brought on much stronger charism that spread further up the legs to the knees, and up the hands to the shoulders. The mind was calmer, but still very actively reasoning and striving to get deeper. I caught this, and attempted to rest the mind more subtly on the charisms, letting go, and grip. It was around this time that I felt mild pain in my stomach, as well as subtle energies flowing about. I know that this area is one which has received a lot of abuse, and at first I tried to direct healing energy into it. Realizing this went against the general mechanics of absorption, I eventually just watched it while remaining unattached.
The third 1/5th was marked by an observation and memory that one has to "have fun" or "gladden" the mind with the process of absorption. It was a mixture of remembering psychedelic philosophy and discourses of the Buddha. Once this was engaged, things began to flow much smoother. There wasn't so much effort as it was more natural. When you're "having fun" or allowing yourself to be glad, the mind appears to automatically let go and absorb in what it is that is the object of its joy. Realizing and beginning to remember how meditation was supposed to work was a milestone.
The fourth 1/5th was marked by many still, yet seemingly timeless and also brief moments followed by shockwaves of intensified and spread tactile charism which corresponded with deeper levels of sustained mental undefinedness. Sometimes a sound disturbance from outside would infringe, but I would just let it be--and for some reason, this would also send shockwaves of intensifying and deepening absorption. I find this very interesting. I have noted in the past that deeper stages, in my experience, are preceded by these "timeless", seemingly unknowable moments of detachment. Almost like one is letting go of a ladder, then realizing the sensation of falling, one grasps at the nearest rung. But I've never observed this kind of mechanic in relation to physical phenomena. There was also a perception as if I was floating just above my physical body. Around this time, I also began to notice that my feet were very cold (which isn't unusual for this depth.) This stage had a really strong and full tactile charism experience.
The final part felt much lighter. There was still the full body tactile charism, but it was very, very light. Almost airy feeling, but certainly not absent. I couldn't call to mind any 4th jhana experiences where there wasn't lots of various charisms, but without thinking, it appeared to be 4th jhana. Maybe I actually was just naturally falling out of absorption, but mentally, it didn't feel like it. Things were just still and light, that's all. Visually, things were bright, especially for the dark room I was in. I then had the thought "okay, all done." And within a brief amount of time, or at least seemingly, the phone buzzed and I took it as confirmation that my session was over. I remember that 4th jhana is often felt as one can just stay there and meditate forever. I don't remember this being that way, although it was more refined and calm than the previous stages.
Overall, I think it was as good as I could expect. However, I very much wished I could experience something more exhilarating like 5th samadhi,
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The fourth 1/5th was marked by many still, yet seemingly timeless and also brief moments followed by shockwaves of intensified and spread tactile charism which corresponded with deeper levels of sustained mental undefinedness. Sometimes a sound disturbance from outside would infringe, but I would just let it be--and for some reason, this would also send shockwaves of intensifying and deepening absorption. I find this very interesting. I have noted in the past that deeper stages, in my experience, are preceded by these "timeless", seemingly unknowable moments of detachment. Almost like one is letting go of a ladder, then realizing the sensation of falling, one grasps at the nearest rung. But I've never observed this kind of mechanic in relation to physical phenomena. There was also a perception as if I was floating just above my physical body. Around this time, I also began to notice that my feet were very cold (which isn't unusual for this depth.) This stage had a really strong and full tactile charism experience.
The accentuated presence of charisms, shock waves, the timelessness, and the floating sensation, as well as a loss of sense of self, are characteristics of the 4th stage of the religious experience. Good work, keep it up.
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I think that last session I only dipped into 4th jhana a couple times, because this last meditation was far more stable and I was able to observe it carefully. It was actually satisfying. I really enjoyed it.
I paid less attention to charisms this time. Instead, I found myself interested in mind qualities and observing mechanics. I had a few "rushes", where it felt like I was going "bye-bye", but unfortunately the little inner fear mongrel took action before I could stop it==much to my disappointment.
However, I did eventually find myself in what very much appeared to be 4th jhana. What sticks out in memory is a feeling of contentedness. Everything was cool. There was no reason to move physically or mentally. I did, from time to time, simply because I'm curious. I observed a mild physical pain in my shoulder, possibly due to my posture. Normally I would have re-adjusted myself. But during those moments, there was no need to. it's hard to explain. The pain was there, but it wasn't painful. Uhhhh, it didn't bother me.
I remember that the Buddha said 4th jhana was "FREEDOM from pleasure and pain", and so I thought "maybe it is 4th jhana after all". This time I definitely felt like I was floating for an extended period of time. It really was lovely. I had some visual charisms here and there, but not much. Something very, very interesting was that my mind recalled the Buddha while in 4th jhana "directed his mind to knowledge of past lives." The mind instantly went to work on that.
I went through some memories I had forgotten. Each time was far more vivid that my waking memory. Once or twice in waking life, I would recall these more recent memories throughout regular life. But these memories were far more vivid and detailed. It felt like I had access to greater depth. And then something interesting happened. I visited my first home. I saw the living room, again, in more detail than any past memory of it.
Then it changed to heading down the hallway, and into the room on the left. I intuitively knew it was an earlier time than the last vision, and this was the nursery room. I floated around there for a little bit. But all that seemed to be in there was a crib with blue blankets or something. Which seems strange, but my parents WERE pretty poor when I was younger--so it's not unlikely.
Occasionally throughout this last stage of my meditation session, i would observe a pleasant kind of sinking or massaging quality in my left foot. But it wasn't my physical foot. I was absolutely certain of that. But, it felt like my foot kept sinking or something. I don't know how to explain it. It was like my foot was disappearing slowly.
I observed the key to getting deeper was to simply rest the mind on the most stimulating non-physical phenomena available. This was, again, almost always the tactile charism (strong tingling and fullness) in the hands, or the entire body (toward the end.)
Well, I have schoolwork to do. That seems like the more important points, although there was other content. I don't know if one can remote view from 4th jhana. I figured "remote viewing" was a quality of OOBE. But, for a few moments, I was indicating who I wanted to see, and then getting flashes of them. Unfortunately, I can't be sure if these were merely memories or not.
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Confirmed the remote viewing. I can hardly believe it. I never thought I would. But the chances of it not being genuine are like 1,000 to 1. That's insane. Is that to mean I can establish myself in 4th jhana and see whoever or whatever I want??
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...I had a few "rushes", where it felt like I was going "bye-bye", but unfortunately the little inner fear mongrel took action before I could stop it==much to my disappointment.
It is hard not to have fear when we encounter profound religious experiences, especially when our religious/meditation teachers breed fear about them. One can only keep coming back over and over again, until the inner terrain of the religious experience becomes so familiar that we no longer react to it, and learn to submit to its process more and more.
I observed the key to getting deeper was to simply rest the mind on the most stimulating non-physical phenomena available. This was, again, almost always the tactile charism (strong tingling and fullness) in the hands, or the entire body (toward the end.)
This is good observation, but eventually you will find it works best to hold all of the charisms in your awareness as a single multi-channel charism.
However, I did eventually find myself in what very much appeared to be 4th jhana. What sticks out in memory is a feeling of contentedness. Everything was cool. There was no reason to move physically or mentally. I did, from time to time, simply because I'm curious. I observed a mild physical pain in my shoulder, possibly due to my posture. Normally I would have re-adjusted myself. But during those moments, there was no need to. it's hard to explain. The pain was there, but it wasn't painful. Uhhhh, it didn't bother me.
I remember that the Buddha said 4th jhana was "FREEDOM from pleasure and pain", and so I thought "maybe it is 4th jhana after all". This time I definitely felt like I was floating for an extended period of time. It really was lovely. I had some visual charisms here and there, but not much. Something very, very interesting was that my mind recalled the Buddha while in 4th jhana "directed his mind to knowledge of past lives." The mind instantly went to work on that...
...I don't know if one can remote view from 4th jhana. I figured "remote viewing" was a quality of OOBE. But, for a few moments, I was indicating who I wanted to see, and then getting flashes of them. Unfortunately, I can't be sure if these were merely memories or not.
Confirmed the remote viewing. I can hardly believe it. I never thought I would. But the chances of it not being genuine are like 1,000 to 1. That's insane. Is that to mean I can establish myself in 4th jhana and see whoever or whatever I want??
Remote viewing is a distinct capability here as you have discovered. It could become quite a distraction, so I have not emphasized it much. I took several levels of training from Silva Mind Control way back in the 70s. They essentially taught students to meditate to roughly the depth of the 2nd jhana, then apply that depth to remote viewing and healing. They never went beyond that, but I did.
Remote viewing at the depth of the 4 stage of the religious experience is not an OOBE, but the OOBE is the next closest state, and Remote viewing at the depth of the 4 stage of the religious experience can lead to an OOBE.
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Some interesting points. Firstly, it sounds like the fear does eventually erode? I've always had strong fear and anxiety. For most of my life I startled easily, and would turn on every light on my way to the bathroom late at night.
Regarding the single, multi-channel charism, I had a mundane insight during meditation just now. It was about 90 minutes in length, and was more of a thrill than usual, very much reminding me of my first significant experiences. Which is of note, as I was re-visiting the approaches I used to some measure of success back in the beginning.
I realized that the most successful approach I used other than charism absorption, was remaining aware of as many of the ordinary mundane sensations as I could. All day, I would endeavor to be aware of as much as possible at the same time. And this did indeed lead to many, successive, and very strong experiences. You may recall I often claim that my recent experiences aren't as thrilling. And as far as I can tell, it is true.
It seems I learned how to consistently access samadhi with the latest approach of absorbing into a limited charism field, like the tingling in my hands. But, my most thrilling and significant experiences happened when I repeatedly attempted to encompass as many sensations as possible within awareness. The trick is being able to let go and relax while actively adding sensations. I think this is considerable progress, even though it is a merely a deeper learned information I already have had supplied by you and my previous experience.
I'm excited, and have re-realized that I need to assess and observe during meditative absorption, even though I am attempting to let go. So far, it seems accessing a greater depth and immersion are largely based on mundane insights like I mentioned earlier.
I find remote viewing interesting, but not enthralling. Thank you for all the information, as always.
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The last two nights I've remembered my dreams vividly, without any effort--because they were vivid in experience. This is significant, as I admit I don't often remember my dreams, lately--for a variety of likely causes.
But, there was the one I had two nights ago. And, I hadn't talked to anyone about it specifically, but I did write about it generally and my pronounced fondness for it. Most of my dreams are dreadful, and it just became too much for me after so many months of it, and began to have aversion to them, which I believe led to unconscious blocking of the memories of subsequent dreams.
When I finally discussed this recent dream just now with my partner, it began to hit me how important it was, and I began to cry. That same, powerful crying that happens whenever I experience significant spiritual release. Unfortunately, I didn't realize it when I woke, and so i didn't commit much to memory (the way my brain/mind works, I have a fairly poor memory--but I am improving it.)
I remember a tall, slender, radiant woman. The closest I could relate it to common experience is the first scene with Lady Galadriel from the Lord of the Rings movies, where she is radiant and elegant. The hair was longer, and much fuller, but blonde and slightly curled as hers. It was luminous.
All that happened that I can remember, was this:
Both of us standing, she looked at me lovingly yet with a very confident and powerful feeling I felt from her. There was an understanding without speech. We embraced, and I sobbed. All the pain. The pain of living. It wasn't pity for myself, at least it doesn't feel that way. It was just; life. Human life. It felt extraordinary. Absolutely extraordinary. Then I woke up and felt very light and happy, to the point which I've regained some of the more "fun" qualities of me, like wit--which is something I've not experienced for quite some years.
This afterglow has continued to today. I am incredibly grateful for the grace(?) of that experience.
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My opinion is, is that you've met your spiritual guide. ;D
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Are there spiritual guides? I've heard of them often, but I've never seen that supposition addressed here. Do you have one? Can you tell me about it?
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A little bit about my history. My grandmother died when I was about 8 or 9 years old. My childhood was one of abuse . Generally not one day goes on without a beating.
When I had my awakening and after about three months of meditation and qigong, I had a dream. I met my grandma and she transmitted to me that she was here to protect me. I cried. I told her that I can take care of myself now. From that day onwards I've never dreamed of her. Mind you, I was a hard person then due to all those years of conditioning myself. Tears are unheard of. I am now 54 years old.
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The woman in your dream could be seen as a spiritual guide, or as the Holy Mother, or Quan Yin, or so very many other ways to interpret the kinds of powerful beings we begin to meet in your lucid dream-time.
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I found this last session to be good progress. I felt more comfortable and not as helpless as usual. Interestingly, there was another female being with blond hair. The vision was very pink/bright, and I was able to observe what was in the background. It appeared I was in some kind of library.
The female was, as usual, stunningly beautiful. I was in third jhana, and suddenly she appeared. There didn't appear to be any charismatic activity associated with it--it was merely visual or mind's eye? I don't know. And, I honestly cannot tell if this was self-sculpted or not. It was very difficult to tell, and I lost the vision a few times, but was able to seemingly return to earlier parts in it. However, as I do not know the mechanics of these things yet, I don't know if it was "mind made" or genuine.
She was tall, slender, and I was comfortable. It wasn't profound, but it wasn't lackluster. She had radiant golden hair that I think women would call in the cut of an "a line" or something like that? It was short, parted down the middle, and ever so slightly longer than the length of her chin--getting slightly shorter as the hairline wrapped around the back of the head. The front-facing hair (when she was looking directly at me) was dark. Like dark highlights, but very dark.
Eyes were beautiful and bright. And face was symmetrical perfection with flawless shape. I don't know why I see females so often. Anyway, it felt like she was waiting for me to "get my bearings." I felt like a child, first learning to use their body and understand the world around them.
She signaled to me, turned, and I followed her through a door way. As she went through the doorway, everything but her went black, and she progressively became light and shrunk down to a floating golden orb. At that point, I lost the vision, and seemingly re-visited it to observe details of it.
The session attempted to move past third jhana, and my hands and feet were already sweating in background awareness, and I said "no. I want to stay here." It wasn't that I loved where I was at that point, I just wanted to become familiar with that stage of jhana so that I wouldn't be so fearful next time.
I took time to explore it. There was no need to sustain it, and the mind was certainly malleable. I attempted to visit a friend remotely, and then her family--who were in the house.
The session then began to slow and I lost interest in the intensity of the tactile bliss. It was just too much, and I was tired of feeling some of my physical body in the background. It was beginning to produce unpleasant sensations. I attempted to absorb further, but the session kept "shutting down." Then it began to rev back up for a moment, but it seemed i was "done" as I opened my eyes and let it subside.
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I can't freaking believe this. I messaged my friend right after my meditation and asked her what she was wearing, what she was doing, etc. I made sure to make careful note of those things while I was viewing her.
With the exception of a shade of the shorts she was wearing (dark blue, not light blue), I got it right. An interesting thing happened though when I tried to "populate" her face during the view. I first saw an old man with glasses and a wide jaw which dominated the entire viewing. And then her face came into view. Before I told her this, she told me she was listening to this guy I probably shouldn't mention, but the point is that it was his face I saw first. Since I couldn't hear during the view, would relevant audio data be visually populated like that?
Don't worry. I'm not getting wrapped up in this. But it has gone a long way toward my enthusiasm growing for samadhi in general.
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And, very interesting responses from you both. I'll have to keep it in mind. I personally would like to interact with the lucid dream female being again. Hopefully when I need to release again.
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...She signaled to me, turned, and I followed her through a door way. As she went through the doorway, everything but her went black, and she progressively became light and shrunk down to a floating golden orb. At that point, I lost the vision, and seemingly re-visited it to observe details of it.
It has been my experience that when we travel to higher realms the body disappears and beings just become points of light. In SE Asian beliefs the ghost is a luminous sphere, which they call a 'kasina." They mostly have a great deal of fear around contact with the disembodied.
I can't freaking believe this. I messaged my friend right after my meditation and asked her what she was wearing, what she was doing, etc. I made sure to make careful note of those things while I was viewing her.
With the exception of a shade of the shorts she was wearing (dark blue, not light blue), I got it right. An interesting thing happened though when I tried to "populate" her face during the view. I first saw an old man with glasses and a wide jaw which dominated the entire viewing. And then her face came into view. Before I told her this, she told me she was listening to this guy I probably shouldn't mention, but the point is that it was his face I saw first. Since I couldn't hear during the view, would relevant audio data be visually populated like that?
This is similar to my experience of remote viewing at the level of the 3rd jhana.
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Thank you for providing information in comparison to your experiences, Jhananda.
Speaking of fear of the disembodied. I have a question. I have a friend who is a Christian, but she used to be a Native American shaman. We get along really well, and have experienced many unique moments together that are rare with others. Anyway, whenever I would tell her about my spiritual journey, she would always cause me fear by warning me that "some of these beings will follow you home, literally." She is highly dedicated to Christianity only, yet she seems to have legitimate mystic experience--although I haven't been able to completely confirm it. Her knowledge seems intellectually based on past entheogen use. Again, I can't be sure.
Do I need to fear "things following me home" from samadhi? I don't know exactly why, but she is very convincing when she talks about things like this.
Note to self: Ask about recent personal interpretations of the "holy trinity" in relation to my samadhi experiences.
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Thank you for providing information in comparison to your experiences, Jhananda.
Speaking of fear of the disembodied. I have a question. I have a friend who is a Christian, but she used to be a Native American shaman. We get along really well, and have experienced many unique moments together that are rare with others. Anyway, whenever I would tell her about my spiritual journey, she would always cause me fear by warning me that "some of these beings will follow you home, literally." She is highly dedicated to Christianity only, yet she seems to have legitimate mystic experience--although I haven't been able to completely confirm it. Her knowledge seems intellectually based on past entheogen use. Again, I can't be sure.
A true shaman is a true mystic. In my experience with people claiming to be shaman, is most people claiming to be shaman these days have as much attainment as your average priest of any mainstream religion, which is zero. A true mystic/shaman does not need drugs. And, there is no reason why a true shaman would have to reject shamanism to be a true Christian; because, they would have had to unpack Christianity for themselves to find that mainstream Christianity is as deeply flawed as any mainstream religion.
Do I need to fear "things following me home" from samadhi? I don't know exactly why, but she is very convincing when she talks about things like this.
Here is my finding on all of such spiritual fears. Once I counted as a friend a man claiming to be a shaman. One morning he came to my home with the intention of doing me spiritual harm. By then I could consistently meditate to the depth of the 4th samadhi/jhana, and had quite a bit of experience with the immaterial domains, as he had.
This shaman sat across from me and gazed into my eyes with the intent of harm. I sat in meditation at the depth of the 4th jhana, which meant I was as transparent as glass. He sat there for about an hour, then he got up and left. I only saw him one more time before he died, as I could not longer count him as friend. No harm came to me.
Now, when one begins to explore the immaterial domains one of course encounters disembodied spirits. One who is not accomplished, established in the 4th samadhi/jhana is ill prepared for the shenanigans that commonly take place there. This is why I do not emphasize the immaterial domains, OOBE, etc.; because few have mastered the 4th samadhi/jhana. Those who have I am more than happy to guide the rest of the way.
Note to self: Ask about recent personal interpretations of the "holy trinity" in relation to my samadhi experiences.
Trinitarianism is at the root of the corruption of the life and teachings of Jesus, or any other mystic.
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I would like to add that before I teach any of my students is to ask them to get rid of fear. This is the main factor that would obstruct anyone from progressing further. Sometimes, with one session of meditation with me they start to see things that they would not normally see and that would hinder their progress.
Further to add, when one is in a OOBE, there are beings which are out of this world, which I have encountered and was afraid once but I overcame that fear. Therefore, the stability in the fourth jhana is very important.
People tend to make the mistake of thinkingg the 5th jhana and beyond are the superior fruits but without the 4 material jhanas, you can't progress anywhere. Just my opinion.
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I'm still confused, and I'm very sorry, but I feel I need to pursue this further, and I need to feel confident about my conclusion as soon as possible. Last time, about a year ago when I first had my most profound experience and didn't yet know of the GWV, i told her about it, and she sufficiently, I am embarrassed to admit, scared me into being a "taking the oath" Christian for about a week.
I foolishly, yet again, feeling confident that we were just misunderstanding each others terminology, took her terminology and explained my undetailed experiences in those terms. Because, her warnings matched up with what I've found. So, an example is that she warned the Holy Spirit is necessary for protection and guidance when exploring out of the body. I interpreted the "Holy Spirit" as the immaterial body/charisms strongest in the 4th jhana, and responded (without mentioning ANY of the terminology we use here). Now I am hesitant to read her response, because she can be very persuasive, especially since we are good friends.
A true shaman is a true mystic. In my experience with people claiming to be shaman, is most people claiming to be shaman these days have as much attainment as your average priest of any mainstream religion, which is zero. A true mystic/shaman does not need drugs. And, there is no reason why a true shaman would have to reject shamanism to be a true Christian; because, they would have had to unpack Christianity for themselves to find that mainstream Christianity is as deeply flawed as any mainstream religion.
She no longer uses drugs, although when I first began to get to know her, she invited me to bring some psych's I had. And it was a very unique experience with her, and i began to wonder if she was a shaman. It was that night which she told me she had a past with it. Her mother was there that night, and it was clear they both had a rich heritage with Native American spirituality. I can't recall her ever bashing shamanism, but I do know she is a Christian, and listens to people like Chuck Missler, which appears to be a lot of talk about "the coming of the end." His face was what flashed into my awareness before her face populated when I viewed her. And then she told me she was listening to him when I viewed her, which made sense of it all.
It is strange, because she seems to know a lot about the immaterial domains, yet she attaches to the "oath taking" kind of Christianity. I almost wonder if during her shaman years she sufficiently scared herself into attaching to a conservative Christian view.
Here is my finding on all of such spiritual fears. Once I counted as a friend a man claiming to be a shaman. One morning he came to my home with the intention of doing me spiritual harm. By then I could consistently meditate to the depth of the 4th samadhi/jhana, and had quite a bit of experience with the immaterial domains, as he had.
This shaman sat across from me and gazed into my eyes with the intent of harm. I sat in meditation at the depth of the 4th jhana, which meant I was as transparent as glass. He sat there for about an hour, then he got up and left. I only saw him one more time before he died, as I could not longer count him as friend. No harm came to me.
Now, when one begins to explore the immaterial domains one of course encounters disembodied spirits. One who is not accomplished, established in the 4th samadhi/jhana is ill prepared for the shenanigans that commonly take place there. This is why I do not emphasize the immaterial domains, OOBE, etc.; because few have mastered the 4th samadhi/jhana. Those who have I am more than happy to guide the rest of the way.
Okay, so it sounds like you are saying some people, somehow, skip jhana 1-4 and go straight to the immaterial domains? Because, it has been my experience that jhana 1-4 are precursors to the immaterial domains. At least for consistent and long-duration access.
Once one is in the immaterial domains, one is no longer in 4th jhana, correct? Well, it is possible to see the immaterial domains while in 4th jhana, but, well, I think you know what i mean. So, how does it matter that mastering 4th jhana is necessary to properly protect and navigate oneself in the immaterial domains, like 5th samadhi? I really can't catch onto this. I think it needs to be more detailed. The best guess I can make, is that somehow one will discover a disembodied spirit is trying to harm them (how?!) and then revert to the 4th jhana for protection.
And what exactly about the 4th jhana protects one from disembodied spirits "following you home?"
I just need to understand the mechanics at work here.
This post is long enough as it is. I'm going to leave it at this for now, and address the rest of the responses later. But this is the main concern (above.)
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People tend to make the mistake of thinkingg the 5th jhana and beyond are the superior fruits but without the 4 material jhanas, you can't progress anywhere. Just my opinion.
I completely concur
I'm still confused, and I'm very sorry, but I feel I need to pursue this further, and I need to feel confident about my conclusion as soon as possible. Last time, about a year ago when I first had my most profound experience and didn't yet know of the GWV, i told her about it, and she sufficiently, I am embarrassed to admit, scared me into being a "taking the oath" Christian for about a week.
Religious fundamentalism in every religion is much the same, just the package looks different. All they want is for you to believe in something, which turns out to be a gross misinterpretation, which is based upon a gross mistranslation of their religious material. Typical of Religious fundamentalism is their belief system has no depth to it, so it does not satisfy those with intelligence, and critical thinking abilities.
I foolishly, yet again, feeling confident that we were just misunderstanding each others terminology, took her terminology and explained my undetailed experiences in those terms. Because, her warnings matched up with what I've found. So, an example is that she warned the Holy Spirit is necessary for protection and guidance when exploring out of the body. I interpreted the "Holy Spirit" as the immaterial body/charisms strongest in the 4th jhana, and responded (without mentioning ANY of the terminology we use here). Now I am hesitant to read her response, because she can be very persuasive, especially since we are good friends.
This is precisely how I interpret the charisms that we report here within a Christian context.
She no longer uses drugs, although when I first began to get to know her, she invited me to bring some psych's I had. And it was a very unique experience with her, and i began to wonder if she was a shaman. It was that night which she told me she had a past with it. Her mother was there that night, and it was clear they both had a rich heritage with Native American spirituality. I can't recall her ever bashing shamanism, but I do know she is a Christian, and listens to people like Chuck Missler, which appears to be a lot of talk about "the coming of the end." His face was what flashed into my awareness before her face populated when I viewed her. And then she told me she was listening to him when I viewed her, which made sense of it all.
It is strange, because she seems to know a lot about the immaterial domains, yet she attaches to the "oath taking" kind of Christianity. I almost wonder if during her shaman years she sufficiently scared herself into attaching to a conservative Christian view.
It sounds like your assessment about this woman is correct. The thing to get is very, very few people figure out the significances of the 4 jhanas, as we call them here. So, it is not surprising that she has turned to fundamentalism, because she has not completely figured it out.
On point here, is my next door neighbor explained to me on one occasion that his grandmother (a native American shaman) initiated him into OOBE practice, which was successful for him. He got to the OOBE, and he got some chairsms, but he did not know what to do with the charisms, so he has been resisting them, which has turned into delusional paranoia. Then he turned to self-medicating his delusional paranoia with drugs and alcohol, which has made things worse for him. Then he moved next to me, and his charisms went through the roof, because, like gandarloda experiences with his students, people who are sensitive will experience charisms in our presence, even if they live next door, which could explain the Taos hum phenomena.
Okay, so it sounds like you are saying some people, somehow, skip jhana 1-4 and go straight to the immaterial domains? Because, it has been my experience that jhana 1-4 are precursors to the immaterial domains. At least for consistent and long-duration access.
Correct; however, these people are in a hurry for the fantastic experiences available to them in the immaterial domains, so they rush passed the all too important developmental stage of the 4 jhanas, which is the material plane experience of what Christians call the "Holy Spirit." But, Christians tend to not cultivate that experience of the Holy Spirit in depth in meditation. Instead they tend to turn it into a massively emotional experience, as religious fundamentalists in other religions tend to do.
Once one is in the immaterial domains, one is no longer in 4th jhana, correct?
Correct.
Well, it is possible to see the immaterial domains while in 4th jhana, but, well, I think you know what i mean.
Correct. That is what remote viewing is about. All of the charisms, or sensory phenomena that is associated with deep meditation from 1st to 4th stage, are the contemplative's awareness coming into contact with the non-sensory phenomena of the immaterial domains.
So, how does it matter that mastering 4th jhana is necessary to properly protect and navigate oneself in the immaterial domains, like 5th samadhi? I really can't catch onto this. I think it needs to be more detailed...The best guess I can make, is that somehow one will discover a disembodied spirit is trying to harm them (how?!) and then revert to the 4th jhana for protection...And what exactly about the 4th jhana protects one from disembodied spirits "following you home?" I just need to understand the mechanics at work here.
We all are at all times bathed in an ocean of immaterial beings. There is no, bringing a demon home, because the demons are all around us, so are the angels.
The significance of cultivating the first 4 stages of the religious experience is developing the still mind, which is called 'tranquility;' as well as developing equanimity. With out the still mind, then the mind tries to interpret the non-sensory phenomena, which are the sensory charisms, into something it can understand. The impure mind turns those non-sensory phenomena into devils that drive it mad. The devout turn those non-sensory phenomena into angels, which the devout find pleasing. That is the "mechanics" of how it "works."
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I'm sorry, I intend to respond to your ample and stimulating post, Jhananda. I have to record this before I forget, though. I am doing schoolwork, but I need to record this.
I was reading about Darwin, evolution, genetic mutations, and how the universe came into existence. And I thought, well, aren't universes beings? And didn't the Buddha say beings pass on according to their karma or something like that? But I wanted to get further. So I started having flashes of how planes and realms come to be. Then as I was staring forward, contemplating and allowing an opening for insight, I saw this small pink light, seemingly floating on the closet surface over a mark that is there.
I found it interesting. And so I fixed my mind on it. Slowly, everything began to change. My heart felt excited. I saw pure white light beginning to manifest everywhere, but not a lot. It was some here and there. And I shifted my mind somehow, and suddenly the entire room lit up, like brilliant rays of heaven were shining in through the window. But the windows blinds are closed. And it wasn't like ordinary sunshine. It was magnificently pure and bright illumination. It was exhilarating. And, it reminded me of the zen "stare at a wall" method I've heard of. This isn't the first time something like this has happened. I'm beginning to think it is a state in which I can remain in throughout daily life, once I spend enough time learning to do so with less effort.
Which would suggest that.....ummmm....See, my room suddenly looked like "heaven on earth." If you see what i'm getting at. Is this familiar to anyone? Is it possible to perceive daily life in this way, all day?
I'll be back later when my work is done. Sadly I need to get this schoolwork done before I can experiment more.
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>>>people who are sensitive will experience charisms in our presence, even if they live next door, which could explain the Taos hum phenomena. >>>>
Hello Jeff, I think I hear the Taos Hum but I don't think there is a mystic living next door to me. I do feel 3 places nearby that I think are power spots, one of which tears my stomach apart if I stay there more than a few minutes although all 3 power spots stop the hum and feel very quiet with a pleasant buzzing sound, I did try to sleep on one of them but just floated around all night without getting to sleep.
One of these power spots I know had been used by shamans over 100 years ago.
What is your experience with the Taos Hum and what would you suggest.
Valdy : -)
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>>>people who are sensitive will experience charisms in our presence, even if they live next door, which could explain the Taos hum phenomena. >>>>
Hello Jeff, I think I hear the Taos Hum but I don't think there is a mystic living next door to me. I do feel 3 places nearby that I think are power spots, one of which tears my stomach apart if I stay there more than a few minutes although all 3 power spots stop the hum and feel very quiet with a pleasant buzzing sound, I did try to sleep on one of them but just floated around all night without getting to sleep.
One of these power spots I know had been used by shamans over 100 years ago.
What is your experience with the Taos Hum and what would you suggest.
Valdy : -)
From what I have read from you, you are the source of the hum that you are experiencing. As for the "Taos Hum," I have driven trough Taos a few times, and I camped near there about 40 years ago. I do not recall any localized hum relative to Taos; however, I have had the charismatic sound intermittently for about 40 years. Since people have reported here that when others meditate with them, then those people report hearing a hum. Taos has a number of contemplative groups; it is therefore reasonable that the source of the Taos hum is contemplatives in Taos who meditate with depth.
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I'm sorry, I intend to respond to your ample and stimulating post, Jhananda. I have to record this before I forget, though. I am doing schoolwork, but I need to record this.
I was reading about Darwin, evolution, genetic mutations, and how the universe came into existence. And I thought, well, aren't universes beings? And didn't the Buddha say beings pass on according to their karma or something like that? But I wanted to get further. So I started having flashes of how planes and realms come to be.
I do not happen to subscribe to a belief in a beginning and/or an end for the physical universe. When religion and science postulate a beginning and an end, it seems to me, that the mind simply cannot grasp beginninglessness.
Then as I was staring forward, contemplating and allowing an opening for insight, I saw this small pink light, seemingly floating on the closet surface over a mark that is there.
I found it interesting. And so I fixed my mind on it. Slowly, everything began to change. My heart felt excited. I saw pure white light beginning to manifest everywhere, but not a lot. It was some here and there. And I shifted my mind somehow, and suddenly the entire room lit up, like brilliant rays of heaven were shining in through the window. But the windows blinds are closed. And it wasn't like ordinary sunshine. It was magnificently pure and bright illumination. It was exhilarating. And, it reminded me of the zen "stare at a wall" method I've heard of. This isn't the first time something like this has happened. I'm beginning to think it is a state in which I can remain in throughout daily life, once I spend enough time learning to do so with less effort.
Which would suggest that.....ummmm....See, my room suddenly looked like "heaven on earth." If you see what i'm getting at. Is this familiar to anyone? Is it possible to perceive daily life in this way, all day?
I'll be back later when my work is done. Sadly I need to get this schoolwork done before I can experiment more.
All of the senses have charsms, so the charism of the visual sense is light, as you described it. We have discussed the charism of sound often here. I, and other mystics, have found these charisms are manifestations of sacred. Thus, when we experience any charism, then we are in the presence of the sacred. When we experience charisms in all of our senses, then we are flooded with the sacred, or the Holy Spirit in a Christian context. The goal of the mystic is to remain thus in the presence of the sacred all of the time.
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I had a really beautiful and easy samadhi sesesion just now. I had watched a couple of Jhananda's old videos, and they inspired me to do more "work" during meditation. Throughout the entire session, I placed my awareness on the tingling hands, eventually moving to the heart, and then the head, and then nothing and yet not nothing.
And, it was interesting. I would have a thought, and then it would unravel. Like, I would see the reason behind the thought. And then I returned to stronger and fuller charisms. Then a thought, and the reason would automatically bloom from it--then it's petals would blow away in the wind, and I would return to stronger and fuller charisms. It was so easy. I mean, there was such a sense of ease about it. I forgot that it worked this way. I seem to forget about the mind part of all this, and just focus on charisms. But this was a good refresher course. Even pains in the body dissolved in this way. Eventually, I dissolved in this way.
As soon as I came out of it, if you were to ask me what I was doing, I would say "Being/enjoying rain." It was ecstasy. Like, I don't know how to explain it. "I was rain". I checked the time. It was almost 4 hours in length. I was stunned, because it didn't feel that way. Really, it didn't feel like time at all. Upon moving the body, it felt so foreign and crude. I don't know what more I can say.
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Congratulations on finding a successful method of meditation. What you described above is essentially my method as well.
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Yes! Please, Jhananda and anyone reading this; do not let me forget about the process of mental unpacking during samadhi. Please remind me to practice samadhi as a whole, not just as a means to "feeling good." Cuz it feels best when we do the work AND play at the same time.
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Today has been a day fairly dedicated to remaining self-aware, rigorous, present, and as expansively aware as possible. It has been mostly a dark day, however.
I'm really getting sick and tired of a few things.
1) Inconsiderate noise and idle chatter at my residence.
2) Being unable to meditate in crossed-legs or corpse pose without significant pain or numbing/unpleasant tingling in left leg (Appears to be nerve damage from all those years of slouching through boring school classes.)
3) Samadhi sessions being unremarkable. Today, despite boozing, crying babies, and irresponsible behavior all around me; I was able to reach 4th jhana. And you know, it was disappointing like it is most times.
I can absorb fairly easily. I absorbed in the sunset earlier today, with eyes open and the usual human racket on a Friday evening in a park. But it's nothing more than an altered state and some mild reprieve in the form of slight novelty.
I wanna know why so few of my meditations have been pleasant, despite arriving at 4th samadhi fairly consistently whenever I have at least 1.5 hours to meditate.
And I want to know where the hell the kundalini is hiding. When I first got back from my sunset absorption, I was determined to write a booklet detailing the many circumstances and causes which were in-place during any mild surge or full on blast.
I do know that the pleasure of my samadhi sessions has something to do with serotonin balances, which suggests to me 5-HTP may worth more extensive tests.
I suppose anything which stimulates or messes with serotonin may be useful. DL- Phenylalinin, 5-HTP, stuff like that. I've also found that the day after a mild psychedelic dose tends to have the best meditations. The meditations then have the "magic" they've otherwise almost never had.
If anyone would like to make suggestions, please let me know. I've tried looking at the experience as "sacred" or "communing with the divine." I have a fairly excellent diet. And I use too many daily medications. I know they are mostly to blame, but I need to find something to make absorption more enjoyable before I can count on the resolve to get off and stay off them. Absorption would need to replace them without interfering with my daily responsibilities.
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Here are some of the things I have been practicing these days:
- simplicity
- evacuation of all thoughts/concerns
- no planning
- no solicitude for others
- receptivity to whatever spiritual affects me
- not trying to find any siddhis
- receptivity to the dark night
- receptivity to spiritual violence
- remaining saturated in the 3rd jhana --- and if possible moving into the 4th
- going on long, isolated walks outside, or else staying in seclusion
Like you I am interested to finally experience the fantastic. At the same time, if I will have to confront ghosts and demons and angels in the spiritual realm, I am glad I am not there just yet.
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Here are some of the things I have been practicing these days:
- simplicity
- evacuation of all thoughts/concerns
- no planning
- no solicitude for others
- receptivity to whatever spiritual affects me
- not trying to find any siddhis
- receptivity to the dark night
- receptivity to spiritual violence
- remaining saturated in the 3rd jhana --- and if possible moving into the 4th
- going on long, isolated walks outside, or else staying in seclusion
Like you I am interested to finally experience the fantastic. At the same time, if I will have to confront ghosts and demons and angels in the spiritual realm, I am glad I am not there just yet.
You bring up a good point I hadn't considered, Alexander. And another reason I wish we had a chat function. Am I really the only one on here who's noticed the tremendous power of real-time discussion? In other words; both minds are engaged in the discussion at the same time.
Anyway, the meditative absorptions I've enjoyed most do appear to have been "OOBE", even if I didn't leave the physical body. The one I just recently catalogued, appears to have been one of the samadhi's without my having viscerally experienced a shift.
From the very beginning in 2011 (I just reviewed my earliest journals of post-psychedelia meditation), I've been interested chiefly in three absorption phenomena.
1) Union with God(?) - I have had a long time to reflect on that first Big Bang of Sheer Energetic Ecstasy, Light, and SupraMundane Insight. It was either the intermediary phase between 4th jhana and leaving the body (like I figured it was all these years), or it was in fact Union with God. All I know is that all my efforts have been, admittedly, fueled by that experience.
2) The white wall of light and annihilation. Which appears to be prelude to union with God--although I've only once been able to overcome it's fear.
3) Being saturated in kundalini energy blasts throughout most of daily life
Yeah, 3rd jhana is nice, so is 4th jhana--but it's when things become psychedelic and divine that I find true inspiration (in-spirit) to push on.
I share your hesitance with the latter samadhi. Devas and demons I am not quite interested in. I am interested in the sheer energetical ecstasy of God. But I would settle for anything that safely recharges my batteries.
I didn't respond to all your post, Alexander. I intend to shortly.
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What do you mean "receptivity to spiritual violence?" Do you mean when you have vision of spiritual violence? If so, then I understand why you are endeavoring to do so. Right before my last pleasant and profound meditation (it's like three posts back), I experienced some violence in a vision that I at first "turned away" from. But instead, I faced it, and let the pain of empathy come. I think I cried for whatever it was that was being hurt.
I am seeing a recurring theme which is prelude to all that "fuels" us (the fantastic.) We have to make progress. As in, the greater obstacle(s) overcomed, the greater the fuel provided.
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Today has been a day fairly dedicated to remaining self-aware, rigorous, present, and as expansively aware as possible. It has been mostly a dark day, however.
I'm really getting sick and tired of a few things.
1) Inconsiderate noise and idle chatter at my residence.
2) Being unable to meditate in crossed-legs or corpse pose without significant pain or numbing/unpleasant tingling in left leg (Appears to be nerve damage from all those years of slouching through boring school classes.)
About 40 years ago I discovered maintaining a daily hatha yoga practice helped me reshape my body so that I was comfortable in cross-legged meditation; and I found cross-legged meditation to be the most useful posture for experiencing massive kundalini thrusts, and deep samadhis; however, I have also practiced regularly standing, lying down, and walking. I found these basic postures are all very useful to practice for the attainment and mastery of the 8 stages of samadhi.
3) Samadhi sessions being unremarkable. Today, despite boozing, crying babies, and irresponsible behavior all around me; I was able to reach 4th jhana. And you know, it was disappointing like it is most times.
I found the right atmosphere is also critical for mastering the 8 stages of samadhi.
I can absorb fairly easily. I absorbed in the sunset earlier today, with eyes open and the usual human racket on a Friday evening in a park. But it's nothing more than an altered state and some mild reprieve in the form of slight novelty.
I wanna know why so few of my meditations have been pleasant, despite arriving at 4th samadhi fairly consistently whenever I have at least 1.5 hours to meditate.
And I want to know where the hell the kundalini is hiding...
I do know that the pleasure of my samadhi sessions has something to do with serotonin balances, which suggests to me 5-HTP may worth more extensive tests.
I suppose anything which stimulates or messes with serotonin may be useful. DL- Phenylalinin, 5-HTP, stuff like that. I've also found that the day after a mild psychedelic dose tends to have the best meditations. The meditations then have the "magic" they've otherwise almost never had.
If anyone would like to make suggestions, please let me know. I've tried looking at the experience as "sacred" or "communing with the divine." I have a fairly excellent diet. And I use too many daily medications. I know they are mostly to blame, but I need to find something to make absorption more enjoyable before I can count on the resolve to get off and stay off them. Absorption would need to replace them without interfering with my daily responsibilities.
I found another critical component of the religious experience that needs to be cultivated is finding the first four stages of the religious experience (samadhi) fulfilling, pleasing, desirable.
When I first got back from my sunset absorption, I was determined to write a booklet detailing the many circumstances and causes which were in-place during any mild surge or full on blast.
I believe writing a book about your personal journey to and through samadhi to be a very valuable effort, and wish to inspire all of those who come here to write that book.
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What do you mean "receptivity to spiritual violence?" Do you mean when you have vision of spiritual violence? If so, then I understand why you are endeavoring to do so. Right before my last pleasant and profound meditation (it's like three posts back), I experienced some violence in a vision that I at first "turned away" from. But instead, I faced it, and let the pain of empathy come. I think I cried for whatever it was that was being hurt.
By this I mean the violence of living in seclusion. To be alone all the time is very unhealthy/dysfunctional. Human beings are supposed to be social. But, from a spiritual perspective, it is a way to transform oneself.
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I see.
Personally, I've found a balance works best. Although I choose very carefully how I engage my time with others. Basically, it's always practice--whether I'm at home writing through inspiration, or I'm stranded at a bar an old buddy thought would be fun.
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Before falling asleep, I had visuals of silhouettes coming from the left side which would come right up to my face to "sniff" me. I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling from these, and after the fourth one, I began to direct my awareness toward angels/devas, which is maybe only the second time I've done such a thing. I asked for the help of an old friend who has transitioned onto the Pure or Heavenly Abodes. Nonetheless, I continued to absorb into jhana/samadhi sleep. What follows:
Lessons/teaching in sleep? Ghosts? Kundalini that wakes one from sleep? 3+ hours into sleep, I woke up to kundalini that frightened me. It was the usual ecstatic kundalini, but it's stimulation was through a subject I'm not fond of. So despite how much I yearn for kundalini, I found myself evading the situation. I awoke to inner heat in the body, likely due to my fear.
I just want to get this "on paper". I was teaching someone or something during sleep when somehow the issue of ghosts came into the picture. I said/discovered/taught something and kundalini began entering, which woke me from my sleep and caused mild fear.
This reminds of why I stopped meditating to sleep a year ago. During these pre-OOBE's or dreams, I was still what/who you know, but layers of egoic protection are not there.
Still, I think there is merit in meditating to sleep for this exact reason. When I am not in my body, I do not have the usual "egoic protection" that is apparently there. I am wondering what indications this may have on level of attainment.
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Changes and Realizations:
1) If I meditate to sleep, I end up teaching other beings.
2) I rarely require the faculty of thinking, or at least it doesn't feel like thinking. It is observation and direct Knowing. Which brings us to #3
3) At least half of the day my actions and experience are direct Knowing. But it's not "my" actions. Which brings us to #4
4) I am no longer the witness. The witness is God. Yes, I am witnessing, but there is no "I". It is God Witnessing God. Or Dhamma witnessing Dhamma. It is supremely peaceful and full of ease. Which brings us to #5.
5) Half of the time there is no will, unless the identity surfaces the other half. This is conservative. It is Dhamma, or God, or Tao, or whatever "Force", flowing like water.
6) As I fall asleep meditating, "I" remote view people. Again, it is not me. It is Dhamma remote viewing Dhamma.
7) Often "I" will do or say something that utilizes the thoughts of others, knowledge of others, or supramundane knowledge that is not consciously known to me. Again, it is this "Force" flowing like water.
8 ) 95% of what I eat is not sensuous.
9) Absorption is extremely easy. I am already absorbed. Whenever I check in with the charisms, they are already strong. It is due to this connection with Dhamma, Force, whatever.
10) The mind is silent (or tranquil) almost 100% of the day.
11) Knowing says this awareness is Anagami, headed for enlightenment. Those words fail to communicate accurately, but it is close enough.
12) The burden, the world weariness, is significantly lighter.
13) Watching this Force create is blissful.
14) Fear and Anxiety have significantly diminished.
Criticism or questions are welcome. Something has happened, and the above are observations I can offer.
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4th jhana "tactile weightless charism" at around 20 minutes in (tactile is my anchor until awareness encompasses entire tactile field, then I add more charism senses). Rather uneventful, though visions of pain surfaced a few times. Awareness was confused. Should watch unattached? Or did put wrong causes in place which lead to pain visions? Some felt like past, some felt like future. Some felt like they weren't of this human plane.
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Changes and Realizations:
1) If I meditate to sleep, I end up teaching other beings.
2) I rarely require the faculty of thinking. It is observation and direct Knowing. Which brings us to #3
3) At least half of the day my actions and experience are direct Knowing. But it's not "my" actions. Which brings us to #4
4) I am no longer the witness. The witness is God. Yes, I am witnessing, but there is no "I". It is God Witnessing God. Or Dhamma witnessing Dhamma. It is supremely peaceful and full of ease. Which brings us to #5.
5) Half of the time there is no will, unless the identity surfaces the other half. This is conservative. It is Dhamma, or God, or Tao, or whatever "Force", flowing like water.
6) As I fall asleep meditating, "I" remote view people. Again, it is not me. It is Dhamma remote viewing Dhamma.
7) Often "I" will do or say something that utilizes the thoughts of others, knowledge of others, or supramundane knowledge that is not consciously known to me. Again, it is this "Force" flowing like water.
8 ) 95% of what I eat is not sensuous.
9) Absorption is extremely easy. I am already absorbed. Whenever I check in with the charisms, they are already strong. It is due to this connection with Dhamma, Force, whatever.
10) The mind is silent (or tranquil) almost 100% of the day.
11) Knowing says this awareness is Anagami, headed for enlightenment. Those words fail to communicate accurately, but it is close enough.
12) The burden, the world weariness, is significantly lighter.
13) Watching this Force create is blissful.
14) Fear and Anxiety have significantly diminished.
Criticism or questions are welcome. It would be good to have the discernment of others.
Perhaps this is temporary, brought on by a week of contemplative lifestyle, and will be replaced with the old mode of suffering when the contemplative lifestyle is interrupted. It also appears that teaching has a lot to do with this. I am aware that Dhamma flows easiest during creative works or teaching (which is also creative through use of simile, metaphor, etc.)
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There are many mystical experiences I've not recorded here. One of which just came back to me, in memory of a discussion I had with Cal regarding the recollection of past lives. I thought what I was referring to as a past life was a past life. But, now I am uncertain. The reader will be kind to help me understand.
One night, about 2 years ago, upon absorbing to sleep, I came upon a vision. I left what appeared to be a first floor apartment or duplex, and had headphones in my ears (as I always do when I leave on my own.) The home I left appeared very empty, which is, again, how I tend to live. I even had a backpack, if I recall correctly--which I always leave home with.
Soon I experienced a burning in my mid-section. For some reason, I did not suffer from it, but I knew what it was. I had been shot.
I began to feel weak in the knees as I ripped the headphones out of my ears and looked around. I saw people running, and there was some kind of projectile in the air everywhere. I don't know if it was bullets. I tried to run, but fell to the grass and pulled my body along with my arms. I was calm, for some reason. I looked across the yards of some apartments/houses, and saw a news crew following a dark-skinned man with what appeared to be a large gun.
I saw other people, and tried to warn them. I tried to help. Then I laid on my back, and died.
When I awoke, I was vibrating all over and in great fear. I thought I had died. Having woken my companion, I told her what I had experienced. It should be noted here, that I have since discovered my companion has dreams in which she dies. This appears to be something she's always experienced. Also, it should be noted we have a strong energy bond, especially at that time, and we could know each other's minds.
But.....was it my death? There were headphones. Earbuds like I normally use. There was a backpack, again, like I normally use. I was happy, again, like I normally am when I leave the house. It was all modern in appearance. Everything I can remember suggested it was in fact this current life, this body. After this dream, this is when I stopped recalling dreams. I have since begun to recall them again.
Is it possible that I saw how I am to die? Or was this just a gift from the Divine? A way to encourage progress, and show what it's like to be further down the path. I say this because there was no suffering and no anxiety. Even in regular dreams then I would have anxiety or suffering. This was peculiarly missing. My internal experience was nothing like I did in any previous dreams.
This is the most hyper real death I've ever experienced, although strangely vacant of anxiety and suffering, unlike usual. As a result of this lack, I was tremendously concerned that I had just witnessed someone else die in another world or part of the world, except it was first-person and felt like "me."
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I would like to ask the forum this, when you dream, you most often "know" you are dreaming, correct? Yet when you relive something, there is an omniscient "aura" about it. Perhaps some anxiety, no? The senses are flared, all of them. Everything is lucid and real, yet you are helpless to the event. It concludes without heeding any resistance; You get fucked! The screams of death tear into your very being and courage becomes an illusion of the misunderstanding you called "bold". Just eat an axe to the face, and you'll know what I mean.
You "feel" it. Like running until you vomit, the pain in the lungs, the heart beating from chest;"feel" it. Please correct me.
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Hello Cal, and Jhanon. Jhanon's dream sequence can be explained in a number of ways, and only he is ever going to know what explanation fits.
1] This dream sequence is classic, past lifetime recollection. The modern ensemble is the mind attempting to explain the experience.
2] This dream is also a classic future scenario.
3] This dream is also a classic shared dream. Yes, when a mystic sleeps with someone, then the mystic could experience the dreams of the other.
Cal, in these kinds of dreams we rarely know that we are dreaming. It is more like reality is just dreams within dreams, within dreams. So, which dream is one going to be aware of?
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Thank you for your input, Jhananda. When you say "future scenario" do you mean to say it's possible to be a future life death, or possible current life death?
I would like to record an additional experience that I feel will be very interesting due to its circumstances.
Yesterday, I went in for a complete scoping of my upper and lower GI. I used to have extreme health complications, and ended up in the hospital a couple times because of my digestive system. Well, since having resolved 99% of the discomfort and complications through a skillful diet, I decided I owed it to myself and family to ensure my digestion system is now healthy.
So, I've been through this before. They give you a drug called propofol. Which is known as "conscious sedation." So, you will respond to their efforts and directions during the procedure, but will not accrue experience or memory. In the past, I simply "blacked out" and was suddenly awake being pushed back into my recovery room.
But this time I was curious about the effect of this drug. It reminded me of the reports i'd seen of ketamine users, who would often observe their bodies dancing at raves. So, their identity would be dancing, and their awareness would be observing. I was assured that this drug is not like ketamine, which is a "dissociative". So, since I was gifted with a long-wait time due to an earlier patient needing much more time, I took the hour and a half to absorb as deep as I could.
During the procedure in which I was supposed to be "blacked out," I was somewhere else. When I say "I", I mean of course the Awareness. The body/identity were still in the procedure room. When i re-entered the body, the first thing I became aware of was a nurse asking "Do you remember anything?" and I said "Not from here." It should be noted that this drug makes one extremely honest and forthcoming (which was a concern of mine, considering what I could tell them.)
I spent the first couple minutes back in the body to commit to memory what I had experienced while in the procedure. I was in some heavenly, peaceful, isolated place, where I was being taught by a highly enlightened being.
The main points worth anyone contemplating is this. The body and identity were active in the procedure room. But I, the Awareness, was not there. We all know it's possible to leave your body this way, but while it is still active? That is further proof we are not "Jhanon" we are not the body.
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Thank you for your input, Jhananda. When you say "future scenario" do you mean to say it's possible to be a future life death, or possible current life death?
Yes, a possible death in this life time or a future life time.
Interesting comments on your consciousness in the procedure. It sounds like you were in the immaterial domains. I hope your GI track is in good condition.
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Thank you, Jhananda. I have in fact completely healed it. Or rather, jhana, the charisms, awareness, did. It is in perfect health now :)
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Yes, a possible death in this life time or a future life time.
Oi vey. Are these things pre-determined? I've never come to conclusion regarding "fate." I take your use of "possible" to suggest they aren't. At least not for a partially enlightened being? LOL
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Thank you, Jhananda. I have in fact completely healed it. Or rather, jhana, the charisms, awareness, did. It is in perfect health now :)
Good to hear your health is better.
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Oi vey. Are these things pre-determined? I've never come to conclusion regarding "fate." I take your use of "possible" to suggest they aren't. At least not for a partially enlightened being? LOL
I'm not sure I've mentioned it, but I am personally a fatalist. I believe everything is the work of fate.
I do believe in the -possibility- of free will. But, I do not believe we have free will by default. In my opinion, only the enlightened individual has free will in the real sense.
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Oi vey. Are these things pre-determined? I've never come to conclusion regarding "fate." I take your use of "possible" to suggest they aren't. At least not for a partially enlightened being? LOL
I'm not sure I've mentioned it, but I am personally a fatalist. I believe everything is the work of fate.
I do believe in the -possibility- of free will. But, I do not believe we have free will by default. In my opinion, only the enlightened individual has free will in the real sense.
I like this. Funny huh, that although we submit to fate, we see the pieces of fates puzzle form and come together little by little, even in advance of fated event? I find it to be humorous, yet none less impactfull upon event. Life sucks, dude. =)
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Oi vey. Are these things pre-determined? I've never come to conclusion regarding "fate." I take your use of "possible" to suggest they aren't. At least not for a partially enlightened being? LOL
I'm not sure I've mentioned it, but I am personally a fatalist. I believe everything is the work of fate.
I do believe in the -possibility- of free will. But, I do not believe we have free will by default. In my opinion, only the enlightened individual has free will in the real sense.
It seems the only free will there is, is the choice between resting in identity or Conscience. The rest is the work of those.
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Oi vey. Are these things pre-determined? I've never come to conclusion regarding "fate." I take your use of "possible" to suggest they aren't. At least not for a partially enlightened being? LOL
I'm not sure I've mentioned it, but I am personally a fatalist. I believe everything is the work of fate.
I do believe in the -possibility- of free will. But, I do not believe we have free will by default. In my opinion, only the enlightened individual has free will in the real sense.
It seems the only free will there is, is the choice between resting in identity or Conscience. The rest is the work of those.
With "a" as condition, "b" comes to be... How depressing is this view of fatalism to think that everything is conditioned. I like to think that we can at least choose to end our suffering by not allowing craving and clinging to develop. I wonder what Jhananda and the other arahants think?
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With "a" as condition, "b" comes to be... How depressing is this view of fatalism to think that everything is conditioned. I like to think that we can at least choose to end our suffering by not allowing craving and clinging to develop. I wonder what Jhananda and the other arahants think?
Well put, Michel.
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It seems the only free will there is, is the choice between resting in identity or Conscience. The rest is the work of those.
With "a" as condition, "b" comes to be... How depressing is this view of fatalism to think that everything is conditioned. I like to think that we can at least choose to end our suffering by not allowing craving and clinging to develop. I wonder what Jhananda and the other arahants think?
Well put, Michel.
Wait a second. This seriously needs to be addressed. Someone please tell me "No, this is not how it is, because of this and this and this" or say "Yes, this is also true in my experience." There is going to be a lot of failure due to language, but I will try my best to explain this.
"We are awareness", yes? Our awareness has capacity to be aware of everything (Union with God), or just one thing (union with a human body). What we are aware of will be provided potential--or in the case of Union--pure potential; "Life." But we don't actually choose how things progress, ALMOST like how God doesn't choose. We have influence by means of what our awareness rests with, and therefor potentiates, but we don't make a choice.
It's just awareness, "Life", potential. This is what I mean by "Being Dhamma" or "being conscience" (NOT consciousness). Ultimately, we are just awareness/potential, either narrowing in on any kind of thing or sensation--such as this case with an awareness occupying a physical or spiritual body--and that thing or sensation then grows. Or we are the Transcendental all-seeing awareness feeding pure potential "Life" to all of existence via awareness of it (which would be Union.)
That's as best I can put it into words, and poorly so. Is this incorrect? Because it doesn't feel like it, and my experiences continually re-affirm it. At least someone help me put it into words better without watering it down.
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I don't know if I want to touch this one. Your experiences with the divine consciousness is out of my league. But I'll add my two cents. The Buddha's dhamma is all about making choices. We can choose to follow the N8P. We can choose to end our suffering by not allowing craving and clinging to arise. How is this done? We can keep everything at the level of sensory awareness by not allowing perceptual thinking to cause one to either delight in things that are pleasing or to have aversion for things that are displeasing. If you can saturate yourself in bliss and equanimity throughout the day then choose to do so.
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I don't know if I want to touch this one. Your experiences with the divine consciousness is out of my league. But I'll add my two cents. The Buddha's dhamma is all about making choices. We can choose to follow the N8P. We can choose to end our suffering by not allowing craving and clinging to arise. How is this done? We can keep everything at the level of sensory awareness by not allowing perceptual thinking to cause one to either delight in things that are pleasing or to have aversion for things that are displeasing. If you can saturate yourself in bliss and equanimity throughout the day then choose to do so.
Both your post and the one above it co-exist. Bliss is the placing of awareness into the spiritual body (which we call charisms.) You don't always "hit the jackpot", as Jhananda would say, but you give potential to it by being aware of it. The more often you are aware of spiritual body/charisms/bliss, the more potential it has to produce greater bliss.
(For jhana, which is absorption while still in the physical body)
Joy = Awareness Absorption in Mind
Bliss = Awareness Absorption in Spiritual Body (all charisms except revelation and kundalini)
Mild "Ecstasy"- Awareness Absorption in Awareness (soft kundalini and possibly insight)
Ecstasy = Awareness Absorption in God (STRONG kundalini and Revelation)
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It is where we confuse the choice to be aware, and live the lifestyle of awareness (N8P), verses believing that life will some how miraculously order itself around us, making lotuses bloom wherever we walk, or thorns to proliferate. Life is full of blooming flowers, and thorns. All we can do is do our best to avoid the thorns by leading a life of awareness. Nonetheless, even if we lead an impeccable life we still might step on a few thorns, or bumped into a few criminals, from time to time.
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It is where we confuse the choice to be aware, and live the lifestyle of awareness (N8P), verses believing that life will some how miraculously order itself around us, making lotuses bloom wherever we walk, or thorns to proliferate. Life is full of blooming flowers, and thorns. All we can do is do our best to avoid the thorns by leading a life of awareness. Nonetheless, even if we lead an impeccable life we still might step on a few thorns, or bumped into a few criminals, from time to time.
Hmmm, I wasn't saying that. But I get a feeling you are referring to all these New Age law of attraction and stuff?
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It is where we confuse the choice to be aware, and live the lifestyle of awareness (N8P), verses believing that life will some how miraculously order itself around us, making lotuses bloom wherever we walk, or thorns to proliferate. Life is full of blooming flowers, and thorns. All we can do is do our best to avoid the thorns by leading a life of awareness. Nonetheless, even if we lead an impeccable life we still might step on a few thorns, or bumped into a few criminals, from time to time.
I'm sorry. Now I see that your response resonates with what I felt when writing. Again, my apologies. I was impulsive and ignorant. Thank you for your patience with me.
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Recently, when absorbing to sleep, I have been repeatedly shocked awake by voices. In the past I don't know why I wrote them off as nothing. But a recent experience has brought me to catalog it.
These voices that shock me awake, they appear to occur the moment I lose awareness of the physical body. They then stop the moment I re-enter the physical body and open the eyes suddenly.
I could be wrong, but these voices I don't recall to be particularly warm and comforting. Perhaps there are some which are, and I do not recall them due to them not disturbing me and causing a sudden wake.
Intuition suggests this is actually the experience of other visit beings who wish to explore and/or interact OOB with me. I can't be certain, but this explains why the voices only happen when absorbing to sleep.
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The rut is broken. I feel more tranquil and at peace than I ever have in my life. In the past I've mostly craved the ecstasy and energy of jhana. Kundalini and all that.
But never has tranquility felt this good. So good, that I can barely get myself to type this. I'm far more content to continue saturating in it.
Nothing is wrong. Nothing needs to be done. It is as it is. Stillness. One-pointedness in the heart-chakra was pleasant and absorbing. It led to 4th jhana. Weightless tranquility followed.
Peace, again, at last. Freedom. I could have sat there in meditation for eternity.
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Good work. Now the big challenge is to see if you can sit into this level of tranquility and equanimity every time you meditate, and meditate thus several times a day.
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That's what I've been shooting for since yesterday. So I'm glad to see you confirm my theory that it's possible. Although I find it strange that I've meditated to the depth of 4th jhana many times--but it isn't always this rewarding.
I felt joy in the first, equanimity in second, and then tranquility in the 4th. That is rare. I usually experience charisms like tactile and visual, which is how I know what jhana I am in. But these qualities such as tranquility ARE the classic description of those jhanas. How could I experience all the jhanas (so many times in the past) without any of the emotional qualities like joy? Or at least they are rarely even noticeable.
The other charisms have always been there for the 4 jhanas. But the emotional qualities have almost always been missing, or barely noticeable. I think...it means my awareness always rested on the charisms, but rarely the emotional charisms/qualities. And so the charisms grew, But not the emotional ones. This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.
This is strange, though. A year ago I would have said I am one of the more emotional aspirants on here. Is it possible I've been unconsciously blocking emotional fulfillment during jhana by trying to get emotional fulfillment? That's what seems to be the case.
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That's what I've been shooting for since yesterday. So I'm glad to see you confirm my theory that it's possible. Although I find it strange that I've meditated to the depth of 4th jhana many times--but it isn't always this rewarding.
I felt joy in the first, equanimity in second, and then tranquility in the 4th. That is rare. I usually experience charisms like tactile and visual, which is how I know what jhana I am in. But these qualities such as tranquility ARE the classic description of those jhanas. How could I experience all the jhanas (so many times in the past) without any of the emotional qualities like joy? Or at least they are rarely even noticeable.
Many people experience the various stages of the religious experience, and while they find those experiences rewarding and transformative, they almost never find skilled guidance into and through them. In fact, in most cases, the priests of the various religions tend to discourage these experience, warning people that they are evil place to go.
The truth is, to take full advantage of the 8 stages of the religious experience, one has to has make radical lifestyle changes and make cultivating them a full-time occupation.
The other charisms have always been there for the 4 jhanas. But the emotional qualities have almost always been missing, or barely noticeable. I think...it means my awareness always rested on the charisms, but rarely the emotional charisms/qualities. And so the charisms grew, But not the emotional ones. This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.
This is strange, though. A year ago I would have said I am one of the more emotional aspirants on here. Is it possible I've been unconsciously blocking emotional fulfillment during jhana by trying to get emotional fulfillment? That's what seems to be the case.
I do not know why you have not received greater fulfillment in your contemplative life, but getting that fulfillment takes time and commitment to saturate in the religious experiences at depth. So, just keep coming back to them, and find your fulfillment in them, regardless of how hard the world of humans can be to to each other, and especially to its mystics.
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I felt joy in the first, equanimity in second, and then tranquility in the 4th. That is rare. I usually experience charisms like tactile and visual, which is how I know what jhana I am in. But these qualities such as tranquility ARE the classic description of those jhanas. How could I experience all the jhanas (so many times in the past) without any of the emotional qualities like joy? Or at least they are rarely even noticeable.
The other charisms have always been there for the 4 jhanas. But the emotional qualities have almost always been missing, or barely noticeable. I think...it means my awareness always rested on the charisms, but rarely the emotional charisms/qualities. And so the charisms grew, But not the emotional ones. This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.
Good show, Jhanon. Glad to hear that you've overcome your rut and have also discovered emotions of joy, equanimity and tranquility in your meditations. Interesting theory that anything you place your attention on is potentiated. Before your meditation session, did you have any feelings of joy or any other emotions?
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The rut is broken. I feel more tranquil and at peace than I ever have in my life. In the past I've mostly craved the ecstasy and energy of jhana. Kundalini and all that.
But never has tranquility felt this good. So good, that I can barely get myself to type this. I'm far more content to continue saturating in it.
Nothing is wrong. Nothing needs to be done. It is as it is. Stillness. One-pointedness in the heart-chakra was pleasant and absorbing. It led to 4th jhana. Weightless tranquility followed.
Peace, again, at last. Freedom. I could have sat there in meditation for eternity.
Way to go, Jhanon. You hit the jackpot.
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This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.
Interesting theory that anything you place your attention on is potentiated. Before your meditation session, did you have any feelings of joy or any other emotions?
This is what I call, "changing the channel." Our psyche tends to get into a rut on whatever it obsesses upon, so a contemplative's job is to keep bringing one's attention back to the meditation object. The meditation object can be charims, or emotional states such as: bliss, joy, ecstasy, tranquility and equanimity.
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I felt joy in the first, equanimity in second, and then tranquility in the 4th. That is rare. I usually experience charisms like tactile and visual, which is how I know what jhana I am in. But these qualities such as tranquility ARE the classic description of those jhanas. How could I experience all the jhanas (so many times in the past) without any of the emotional qualities like joy? Or at least they are rarely even noticeable.
The other charisms have always been there for the 4 jhanas. But the emotional qualities have almost always been missing, or barely noticeable. I think...it means my awareness always rested on the charisms, but rarely the emotional charisms/qualities. And so the charisms grew, But not the emotional ones. This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.
Good show, Jhanon. Glad to hear that you've overcome your rut and have also discovered emotions of joy, equanimity and tranquility in your meditations. Interesting theory that anything you place your attention on is potentiated. Before your meditation session, did you have any feelings of joy or any other emotions?
Good question. Before the meditation, I was rather desperate for relief. I also did a few tactile body scans in the early moments, making sure to spend time with areas rarely noticeable in activity--such as the stomach area. I think this aided me in detecting particularly fulfilling charismatic activity among all the charisms being experienced.
The despair appears to have motivated me to find pleasure out of the selection of charismatic phenomena that would arise--rather than waiting for something really great to jump out. So, once I was in 2nd and 3rd jhana, I directed the awareness away from the tactile, audio, and visual charisms--as they gave little pleasure.
I found the heart chakra felt really good, and so I settled on it as the primary object. Then I began to really cultivate it with sincerity. With each breath in, I would "charge" the heart chakra, which lead to stronger and stronger feelings of joy, love, fulfillment, and warmth. I checked the other upper chakras, but they didn't provide the "flavor" I enjoyed of the heart.
The heart chakra remained a plentiful source of saturation after I left meditation. I could direct awareness to the heart chakra, cultivating it again, and within a few moments all the visual, tactile, and audio charisms came on in full blanket. It became a home. A strategy I remember from "With Each and Every Breath". It's worth noting, however, that the heart chakra sensations like this are nothing new to me. But in this particular situation, they were particularly fulfilling...
This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.
Interesting theory that anything you place your attention on is potentiated. Before your meditation session, did you have any feelings of joy or any other emotions?
This is what I call, "changing the channel." Our psyche tends to get into a rut on whatever it obsesses upon, so a contemplative's job is to keep bringing one's attention back to the meditation object. The meditation object can be charims, or emotional states such as: bliss, joy, ecstasy, tranquility and equanimity.
This confirms it, then. The trick, for me, has been trying to remain open to whatever may come and be pleasant. That's how I believe the body scanning of often subtle charismatic activity helped. Also, I've found the charism's I enjoy most are the ones hiding from us in plain sight. What was the awareness centered on during the last weeks? Feelings of inadequacy and being "closed off." So it would make sense that the feelings of openness, love and fulfillment from the heart chakra would be the polar opposite. Thus, it would be subtler to the awareness at first because the awareness is used to seeing closed, cold, inadequacy.
At the same time it is also the most rewarding because of the warmth of the heart chakra. I think this is due to what I call the law of contrast. Like how coming in from freezing outside temperatures to a warm fireplace feels more pleasant than coming inside from a 100 degree desert and sitting in front of the same fire.
Thank you for asking questions and adding comments. It's helped me understand something very important.
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I intend to focus more often on detecting emotional states. All the crazy charisms are interesting to observe, but the emotional states are what make the experience "whole" for me. The charisms are always there, but perhaps I am forgetting to scan for the emotional charisms available. So, i will commit to that in both day-to-do and formal meditation.
The emotional charisms function well as my primary object, with all the other charisms in the background. Sort of like a mountain from which everything else is viewed.
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I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.
In the past, when I was still learning about jhana, the visual field would become completely white. Blinding and yet it's this dull foggy sort of entity. I want to know what these are. I have yet been unable to endure the fear long enough to see if it's some kind of automatic absorption.
I suppose it's freaky because I don't make efforts to see it. It arises on it's own.
Is anyone else familiar with this? Forgive me for the poor writing here. I'm barely awake.
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I should note the above happens when I turn out the light for sleep. I actually have had a few long stints where I slept with the light on. I know--I'm a coward.
I mention this because it may be related to repeat experiences I am having in almost every meditation sit. In general, I suddenly find myself at the edge looking down miles to the surface below. Everytime this happens, I experience fear. It's become less fearful lately, and just stay cool.
I wonder if others have these kinds of meditation experiences. I wonder if they are being manifested to help me overcome fear. Sort of like training wheels.
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The various charisms can be quite intense experiences, which can terrorize us, so we go to our priest, or meditation teacher to discuss these things, and the response we tend to get from priests and meditation teachers is, "The it evil!" You will need to be depossessed."
So, this is why I started this forum. So that we can discuss the various phenomena that arises during deep meditation, and thus disarm our fears.
It is actually our fear that is the problem, not the phenomena. So, keep coming back to deep meditation, and eventually you will get used to the often strange terrain of deep meditation.
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I think to overcome fear , one should face it.
I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.
In the dark, you should see stars (entities) and it shows that you have improved tremendously and I believe that the foggy or swirly or sometimes other patterns is then that you will begin to see more faces and then proceed into the tunnel to crossover to the immaterial domain.
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I think to overcome fear , one should face it.
I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.
In the dark, you should see stars (entities) and it shows that you have improved tremendously and I believe that the foggy or swirly or sometimes other patterns is then that you will begin to see more faces and then proceed into the tunnel to crossover to the immaterial domain.
Although I've never put it in those words, what you've said here feels like the subtle intuition I get when this happens. Which is actually what most frightens me. The subtle and vague knowing that I'm about to consciously leave the material plane. So, I think you're correct.
And yes, Jhananda, and Gandarloda, I need to face it. So badly, I need to face it. I know what's waiting on the other side is very unlikely to NOT be fulfilling and energizing. But there's still that fear and doubt. I need something to remember when it happens. Something stronger than fear. Perhaps if I can cultivate the courage which comes from the heart chakra.
Thank you
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I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.
Is anyone else familiar with this? Forgive me for the poor writing here. I'm barely awake.
I have experienced something similar. This was during a shamanic journey, but kind of an improvised one: I was standing and making continuous movements similar to the bouncing part of the 'dropping post (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc-uzGCzDPY)' qigong exercise, though without the "stacked bone" posture; this has the effect of shaking down the body, or maybe unintentionally shaking free, or something. I'm not sure what led me to do it. My eyes were half open and not focused on anything in particular as I entered into a trance. What then entered the room I can only call entities of light, like you said. The sense was these were beings or entities, there was the vaguest of human(?) forms to their diffuse fog, and I felt them surround me. There was a very palpable presence in the room. I had some fear, though I knew they weren't malicious and I wasn't in danger... really it was more a feeling of uneasiness and nakedness. Nothing much else remarkable happened, maybe because I was kind of startled back into my body, though I continued on for a little bit.
Keep the posts coming. I am finding them very clear and helpful.
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I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.
Is anyone else familiar with this? Forgive me for the poor writing here. I'm barely awake.
I have experienced something similar. This was during a shamanic journey, but kind of an improvised one: I was standing and making continuous movements similar to the bouncing part of the 'dropping post (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc-uzGCzDPY)' qigong exercise, though without the "stacked bone" posture; this has the effect of shaking down the body, or maybe unintentionally shaking free, or something. I'm not sure what led me to do it. My eyes were half open and not focused on anything in particular as I entered into a trance. What then entered the room I can only call entities of light, like you said. The sense was these were beings or entities, there was the vaguest of human(?) forms to their diffuse fog, and I felt them surround me. There was a very palpable presence in the room. I had some fear, though I knew they weren't malicious and I wasn't in danger... really it was more a feeling of uneasiness and nakedness. Nothing much else remarkable happened, maybe because I was kind of startled back into my body, though I continued on for a little bit.
Keep the posts coming. I am finding them very clear and helpful.
The distinct feeling of presence and them actually appearing within my awareness of the physical world without my effors is what is frightening. But I have never gotten a sense they meant harm. Just like you said. Rather I feel vulnerable and disempowered. Perhaps even humiliated.
I paid the price for avoiding instead of facing it. Today the mind is foggy, sapped of energy, dazed, empty, and really rather useless. Meditation hasn't corrected it yet.
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Another similar experience last night that was rather mesmerizing. I will try to describe it.
I was merely laying in bed, with a single candle, resting in jhana with my eyes open. The upper part of my visual field, which was where the walls met the ceiling, started to exchange for a brightness. Bright in that it overpowered ordinary vision. I recognized it as the light which has come so many times before, but it was different this time.
At first I felt fear, but then I paused to just be with it. This was a new reaction. Then, I remembered someone from the sangha talking to me about this. I don't know if it was Jhananda or someone else. Someone told me something like "just dip your toes a little further each time. If it ever becomes too much, just open your eyes." Well, in this case my eyes were already opened. But it made sense since I could control my level of absorption.
So I paid attention to how mesmerizing it was. Suddenly it was like a shower was coming down all around. A shower of purple electricity of the most stunning color spectrum. The spaces not filled with this electricity were increasingly white and alive, like the foam of a crashing wave. But what was most amazing about it was this whole shower came in consistently timed pulses--like waves lapping on the shore.
The first wave only came down to where the ceiling met the walls before receeding. Then the next wave came down with greater radiance and activity, blasting a bit further down before receding to the ceiling. After the third or fourth wave, I began to FEEL the waves (proportional to it's visual expression) in the charismatic body. Each wave washed over the visual and tactile field, and the electricity could be felt similarly.
Fear set in again. I shook the absorption just a bit to soothe the fear-laden identity--I really wanted to overcome it. Then I absorbed again, and it grew faster than before. Finally, when it was covering almost my entire vision with each burst, I let go a little bit more. It was as if time stopped, as did the wave about to crest. and I was given a chance to observe it. It was like watching a wave slow to a crawl just before crashing, and I could see that despite it's slowed movement, the entire wave was alive, scintillating, with the most mesmerizing "black light" electricity. It ended after that. I admit that it appears it ended because I was satisfied with dipping my toes much further than usual.
Afterward, instead of being afraid of it like in the past, I wanted to overcome it, and go into whatever this was only the beginning of. I wanted to go with it. I wanted to know. I tried again, but there was still this interspersed fear. I was discouraged. I had to use the bathroom, so I did. As I was walking out of the room, investigating the foundation of the fear, the thought came "The worst that can happen is you resist it."
After coming back, I was soon overcome with drowsiness, and lost consciousness.
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Firstly, I'd like to apologize for not getting to the numerous active threads. I've been trying to, but lately I've been more absorbed than usual. I will get to them, one by one.
Two New and Significant OOBE Experiences
First OOBE to Occur: Innocent Happiness
A few nights ago, when I was riding a little higher wave of enduring intuitive ecstasy than I am now, I had two distinctly new OOBE experiences during the sleep state. The first one, was a happy, go-lucky, laughter riot. Never in all my memory can I recall having such an OOBE or even dream. I exited with a smile on my face. A genuine, huge, smile. That's how I began my day. I had left the OOBE sleep state not with sadness, but happiness. But the second experience was even more significant.
Second OOBE to Occur: Laughter in the Ghost Plane
I found myself in dry, bland, grey world, with various small, old buildings. And I became aware of a similarily grey-ish, somehow translucent and empty humanoid figure. But more importantly, I saw this figure holding an old-style lantern which put out a distinctly sharp greenish-yellow glow that I instantly recognized from past experiences. And in this past similar experiences, as well as this one, there was always a ghost-like figure with an old-style lantern, searching endlessly for something. In the past, they were disconcerting. About three years ago, just moments before my first experience of ecstatic consciousness is my earliest memory of this. And it was shining it's light on me. Right in my face....
But, to my genuine astonishment, and gratitude, in this recent OOBE, I began laughing. Not in a cruel fashion. I couldn't understand it. Why was I laughing? But immediately, intuitively, called to memory was something Jhananda said to me.
On the other hand, terrifying dreams, are quite common for mystics. Here is my explanation. When we are in an OOBE we are in the "collective unconscious," but we are conscious. This makes the collective very insecure, so they will often lash out at the one who is conscious. When the contemplative develops equanimity, then the terrifying dreams will become far less, and even more importantly, they will have little effect.
So, as you become more lucid in the dream state, then you will have more terrifying dreams. But the more time you spend meditating at the 3rd level and above, the more equanimity you will have, so the frequency of the terrifying dreams will become less. And, as you progress you will be less attracted to the lower immaterial realms and more attracted to the upper realms.
When you can consistently meditate to the depth of the 4th level, then you will be able to move in and out of body at will, and you will be moving to higher dimensions, where you will not encounter frightening beings. And, even if you did, then the frightening beings would not be frightening, just laughable.
I thought what he was describing was a decade away, just as three years ago I thought stream-winning would be a lifelong accomplishment.
Some Compelling Observation
I want to finish by saying that I have done very little formal meditation over the last two weeks, other than meditated to depth before entering sleep.
However, I've experienced, beyond a doubt, nearly constant qualities of 3rd jhana as I've written, contemplated, discussed and assisted others. Other than a near-constant stream of intuitive insight into all experience, a consistently strong presence in the throat and head chakras, I have also experienced almost no physical pain compared to my normal experience. It seems that I've become absorbed in the intuitive insight, which is the constant charism which is moving me back and forward in the jhana's during daily life.
Intuitive Insight as a Charism to Absorb In
I see an aura, and I instantly realize it's a higher vibrational frequency experienced as light. That physical light is relatively close to the frequency of aura. That all vibrations beyond that of physical light is some form of light. That why we are so dazzled and mesmerized by our devices of light, is the same reason being bathed in light at the higher samadhi's is an experience of ecstasy and knowledge. This is an overview example of the instantaneous insight that's nearly constant--but I can't hope to communicate the feeling it provides. Something I experienced 3 years ago, and thought "This is IT. God, please let that sublime abiding be something to experience constantly."
Conclusion
I am not looking for praise. I want to somehow communicate how I feel right now. I want you, anyone, to feel it, too. That this is real. That this works. That there is no need for doubt.
Go read my posts. I've recorded everything I could since I came here, with as little censorship as possible. Because I wanted a complete record for all to see of an individual going from beginning to finish. In the "age of information", that is a duty I feel we owe to humanity. So that they know. And I'm going to complete that effort.
Jhananda once told me if I wanted a comfortable life, that I should forsake meditation. Frankly, screw a comfortable life. I love feeling alive, vibrating in every cell, knowing and seeing a bigger and bigger interconnected image of existence and all the planes. To be comfortable is to be static and stale, not ecstatic and alive. Have courage. Listen to your intuition/conscience/heart--whatever you like to call it. And LET GO. Take the leaps of faith gently suggested of your intuition. Because ultimately, ignorance/fear is what needs to be annihilated.
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Good work, Jhanon. You are finding that the bliss, joy and ecstasy of deep meditation is the most compelling experience one can ever have.
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Good work, Jhanon. You are finding that the bliss, joy and ecstasy of deep meditation is the most compelling experience one can ever have.
--that one can have consistently, enduringly, virtually whenever. That is what I think has really changed. In the past it was all new, like a human drinking their first beer. It tastes strange and effected you unusually. But just as an alcoholic begins to seek refuge in that bottle as they become more acquainted with it, so, too does a mystic with the numerous ecstatic qualities available. How's that for contradictory imagery? :)
I do have one question. A curiosity, really. Is it quite ordinary for ghost beings to carry a lantern with a greenish-yellow glow?
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I do have one question. A curiosity, really. Is it quite ordinary for ghost beings to carry a lantern with a greenish-yellow glow?
Not in my experience, but it sure sounded very Jungian archetype.
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Conclusion
I am not looking for praise. I want to somehow communicate how I feel right now. I want you, anyone, to feel it, too. That this is real. That this works. That there is no need for doubt.
Go read my posts. I've recorded everything I could since I came here, with as little censorship as possible. Because I wanted a complete record for all to see of an individual going from beginning to finish. In the "age of information", that is a duty I feel we owe to humanity. So that they know. And I'm going to complete that effort.
Jhananda once told me if I wanted a comfortable life, that I should forsake meditation. Frankly, screw a comfortable life. I love feeling alive, vibrating in every cell, knowing and seeing a bigger and bigger interconnected image of existence and all the planes. To be comfortable is to be static and stale, not ecstatic and alive. Have courage. Listen to your intuition/conscience/heart--whatever you like to call it. And LET GO. Take the leaps of faith gently suggested of your intuition. Because ultimately, ignorance/fear is what needs to be annihilated.
Jhanon, I want to say that I've been actively reading your posts as well and gaining insights for my meditation. I do feel inspired by your progress. So thank you for posting these regularly.
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I do have one question. A curiosity, really. Is it quite ordinary for ghost beings to carry a lantern with a greenish-yellow glow?
Not in my experience, but it sure sounded very Jungian archetype.
Interesting, because I know nothing of Jung besides a few popular quotes. And, I cannot see any impression from the past which could lead to perceiving lanterns...I have one more question. Have you ever seen formless beings, balls or mists of light, while in ordinary daily life? When I was young, watching outside during a thunder storm; I saw an extraordinarily radiant ball of light. I was told it was a "ball lightning", supposedly a rare physical phenomena.
Then, a few years ago, I walked past my room, and in my periphery saw a flowing, floating, golden-lighted being of grace floating over my bed. It was the day after the highest experience of samadhi I've ever had, which fits your description of Samadhi 8. And that experience happened in that bed. I turned straight forward, and watched it.
There have been others.
Conclusion
I am not looking for praise. I want to somehow communicate how I feel right now. I want you, anyone, to feel it, too. That this is real. That this works. That there is no need for doubt.
Go read my posts. I've recorded everything I could since I came here, with as little censorship as possible. Because I wanted a complete record for all to see of an individual going from beginning to finish. In the "age of information", that is a duty I feel we owe to humanity. So that they know. And I'm going to complete that effort.
Jhananda once told me if I wanted a comfortable life, that I should forsake meditation. Frankly, screw a comfortable life. I love feeling alive, vibrating in every cell, knowing and seeing a bigger and bigger interconnected image of existence and all the planes. To be comfortable is to be static and stale, not ecstatic and alive. Have courage. Listen to your intuition/conscience/heart--whatever you like to call it. And LET GO. Take the leaps of faith gently suggested of your intuition. Because ultimately, ignorance/fear is what needs to be annihilated.
Jhanon, I want to say that I've been actively reading your posts as well and gaining insights for my meditation. I do feel inspired by your progress. So thank you for posting these regularly.
:) I hope it accelerates your progress and potentiates your level of fulfillment.
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Interesting, because I know nothing of Jung besides a few popular quotes. And, I cannot see any impression from the past which could lead to perceiving lanterns...I have one more question. Have you ever seen formless beings, balls or mists of light, while in ordinary daily life? When I was young, watching outside during a thunder storm; I saw an extraordinarily radiant ball of light. I was told it was a "ball lightning", supposedly a rare physical phenomena.
I have never seen ball lightning, so I cannot be sure how it behaves, or its origins, but I have heard about it, and I speculate that it is a product of higher level electromagnetic lightning phenomena, which I believe is related to super-lightning, and the sprite; and not related to any spiritual phenomena.
Then, a few years ago, I walked past my room, and in my periphery saw a flowing, floating, golden-lighted being of grace floating over my bed. It was the day after the highest experience of samadhi I've ever had, which fits your description of Samadhi 8. And that experience happened in that bed. I turned straight forward, and watched it.
There have been others.
Interesting thing about reported ghost appearances; in American culture we tend to have a more anthropomorphic representation to the reported sightings. In Asia then tend to describe this phenomena as spheres of light, or light orbs, which partly relates to the kasina in the suttas.
Jhananda once told me if I wanted a comfortable life, that I should forsake meditation. Frankly, screw a comfortable life. I love feeling alive, vibrating in every cell, knowing and seeing a bigger and bigger interconnected image of existence and all the planes. To be comfortable is to be static and stale, not ecstatic and alive. Have courage. Listen to your intuition/conscience/heart--whatever you like to call it. And LET GO. Take the leaps of faith gently suggested of your intuition. Because ultimately, ignorance/fear is what needs to be annihilated.
The genuine religious experience tends to be so compelling that one tends to give up everything to cultivate them.
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Jhanon, I'm wondering... When you do body scans or start to see these visual charisms, were you meditating with eyes open? Wouldn't the sight sense be somewhat in the "background"? I'm asking because lately I've been trying both closed and open-eye meditations, and I find that the experiences I get from are a little different.
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Jhanon, I'm wondering... When you do body scans or start to see these visual charisms, were you meditating with eyes open? Wouldn't the sight sense be somewhat in the "background"? I'm asking because lately I've been trying both closed and open-eye meditations, and I find that the experiences I get from are a little different.
I see visual charisms whether I'm meditating eyes open, closed, or just going about my day. They are more obvious the greater the contrast between the ordinary senses and extrasenses. For example, the visual charisms I see are obvious when in darkness, but slightly less noticeable in daylight. Also, like any "extrasense" (charism), it is laid over the ordinary sense and takes prominence the more one is absorbed into the extrasenses. This has been my experience so far.
Does this answer your question?
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I've recently had an unusually unique meditation experience...Whether or not it was form-jhana or samadhi was irrelevant.
Instead of experiencing several frequencies of charisms simultaneously in each extrasense (auditory, tactile, etc)--I experienced a guiding voice. At first it appeared to be nothing more than mental chatter, but I couldn't remember the last time I experienced mental chatter. So, I let go and watched. The charisms were still there, but they were focusing and expanding extrasenses "automatically" in response to what was necessary to illustrate the discourse. It's at this point I will have to use "quotations" in lack of adequate wording.
"me"= What would normally be perceived as "me" in a normal human being.
"They"= What was being perceived as the guiding voice.
"I" = What was normally perceived to be the independent awareness which one would navigate with at higher samadhi or death.
"Me" would ask questions and "They" would respond with auto-focusing extrasenses, like occupying the awareness of another being's mental/emotional state while amplifying the tactile field and telepathic-like communication. It began to bend my mind in ways that only substance-assisted meditation had in the past.
But "They"--which just previously was perceived as a guide--was "me", and "me" was "They"--and we ("I", "They", and "me") knew this. "me" would voice a question, or concern, but at the same time was aware that "I" wasn't doing anything. It was a dance between "me" and "They" which "I" was observing but also capable of interacting through "me" and "They". So the "me" would ask a question, and "They" would respond with various extrasenses.
(I'm doing my best to explain this.)
It rapidly became instruction, and the only role of "I" was to let go and remain neutral as I felt and experienced it through the "me" and "They". The more skillfully this was done, the more "me" and "They" integrated, eventually integrating more being's consciousnesses. "Me" would ask something like "What about..." and "They" would interrupt, and all answered in unison--except "I" knew the answer somehow before, and yet at the same time. This is an example of how the rapidity and intensity increased.
Eventually the consciousness of a human being very close to me, which I've been struggling to support in ordinary daily life was occupied. This human being has shut themselves off from their inner being. But they display all the tell-tale signs of repressed suffering.
The pain was so tremendous, and unanticipated, as this human being is extremely adept at repression. I admit I am typing this through quivering lower eyelids filled with tears--even though this meditation occurred yesterday. It's at this point I have to throw out the "I", "me", "They" distinctions because they were too blurred due to how powerful the experience of this being's consciousness had become. The intensity was so great I began to experience the sense of trauma trying to take hold. And all I heard was "equanimity, equanimity, equanimity." This was motivated by a selflessness. I can't really say if it was "intent."
What was perhaps the most difficult--out of what I can express with words--is the longer and more finely the equanimity balanced on the fine pin-point of "unattached", the stronger and stronger the pain was. I soon was pulled back to my bedroom, and felt "Go." As well as I recall, there were no tears upon re-entering form--which was unusual. I collected the experience in mind, and grabbed the phone to check time. At that very point, an alert came up reminding me that I was to go meet with this same human being. The mind was still, but would try here and there to "rush" as I had very little time to get there. The same selflessness drove it to be silent. Almost aggressively so--or at least the power was absolutely overwhelming. If I put the memory of this "drive to be silent" into words, it would simply be the complete embodiment of concept behind the word "NO." But, like as if you were looking up 1,000's of stories at this great being of blinding light whose voice TORE into your eardrums, echoing through every cell...much to your overwhelming gratitude and delight.
That occupied consciousness, was perhaps the greatest suffering "of the heart" I've ever onserved/endured. Sure, I've sobbed in the past, but it was often--if not always--a selfish, self-indulgent suffering. This was not suffering, but tremendous pain at the observation of their suffering. It was paired with unbearable compassion.
As if I wasn't already strongly driven to be of service to this individual, and despite the pain...I sincerely wanted to help with every cell. And at one point, I was thoroughly prepared and willing to take all of their pain on so they could be free of it. I don't know how to explain it any more strongly without recording a video report....
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I've recently had an unusually unique meditation experience...Whether or not it was form-jhana or samadhi was irrelevant.
I get insights all of the time, and find they do not have to be in a context of formal meditation practice. However, I know that my facility with insight is a product of having maintained a daily meditation practice for decades. So, I have no problem believing that you have come to this level of insight.
When we get to this level of insight is when we begin to feel the pain of the world. I have come to realize that if one does not weep every day for the corruption, and suffering of the world, then one is not enlightened. This; however, means, as you found, that equanimity is essential, or we will go quite made from the insights gained from an incomplete contemplative life.
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Hey guys. Long time no talk. I've been exploring different ways of life, different perspectives on life, and just generally travelling all over the place.
I'm popping on here because I have a quick question. I have a friend that experiences something unusual which I found I had no explanation for.
When lying down, they sometimes enter a twilight state where they have waking visions of random situations and places in which they themselves are not present. In other words, it is other people, but themselves in these visions.
In most dreams or visions, it's been my experience that we are usually present in the first person. Anyone familiar with this or have some insight about it?
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Usually even if we see a dream as a third person, we have reactions, and in a way we get involved like how it is if we watch a movie with too much involvement... If we can get to a point where we watch life as a third person, even our dream becomes that.. U feel like u have just watched a movie. Over period it may result in having no character of urself in a dream. I have experienced it, but it doesnt mean much.. This way or otherwise.
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Good to hear from you, Jhanon. Your inquiry is difficult to respond to without knowing more details regarding your friend. Your friend's experiences could just be the product of an overactive imagination, or the product of a deeply contemplative life. So, we need to understand your friend better. Does your friend lead a contemplative life? If so, then what other fruit does your friend manifest?
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CONCERNING SYMPTOMS
I'm sorry I failed to respond to this request for clarification, Jhanananda. I actually came on here to ask for more perspective and guidance regarding someone and was surprised to find I was on here asking questions May of last year.
I come to you with a much larger bag of interesting questions which I've been unable to find answers within myself for. I believe this is because I've been way too lax with my practice for too long and am "rusty." That is a long story I do not want to delve into right now. Moving on, I hope you'll forgive my lack of response to your questions Jhanananda, and help me once again. I intend to have this individual make their own username on here and begin utilizing the community. But, for now, as with previous people I've brought into the community, I think she needs to see how helpful it is by me posting the most concerning/concerning issues and seeing how the community responds.
The reason for my reappearance, other than because I personally need and desire to be a greater part of the community again, is in seeking guidance regarding a companion I taught/guided to meditative absorption states, and challenges they are encountering which appear to be best posted here. The symptoms she's describing and what I'm seeing her experience are not immediately familiar to me in the many years I've acted as a guide.
A quick note on circumstance. I live with this companion for over a half-year, whom I will refer to here as "A". We are around each other often. I've taught her meditative absorption, and we've also carefully utilized high safety-profile, low dosage psychedelic compounds in controlled environments. She meditates at least 2 hours a day and has made rapid progress over the last half-year.
We began sharing a bed many months ago, and it seems as far back as I can remember I've witnessed these strange full body spasms occur in her. They occur almost always in the evening as we lay in bed and begin to relax to sleep. I'm going to have her describe her direct experience of it here, and then I will add any other details which may be needed.
A: The spasms occur mostly when I begin to relax and while in a state of deep relaxation ( i.e. sitting, laying down, meditating). They also occur when I am fully alert and that is usually after meditating but not exclusively. When I get full-body spasms, it feels like my abdominal muscles contract on their own and a vibration goes throughout my entire body and often it results in the air being pushed out of my lungs so that I'm left gasping after. When the full-body spasms occur, its usually not just one, but multiple extended over a period of time. The other spasms I experience are isolated to single areas of the body. The body part that spasms the most on its own are my feet. It feels like the muscles by the soles of my feet are vibrating and they will do that for extended periods of time. Sometimes, but less often, singular toes will twitch on their own. Other areas of the body that spasm are really random, like my bicep muscle, or my quadriceps, or my eyelid. Those don't typically last long. These spasms are never painful. They are not cramps.
Jhanon: So, this may not sound that intense, but it scares the living shit out of me most times because I'm usually deep in meditation or almost asleep. From the outside, it's quite alarming to witness.
She states that these didn't begin happening until she began spending time with me, meditating deeper, and utilizing psychedelics--all things which in the past I have seen result in kundalini awakenings in others, which you can see reflected in my past posts. So, this may simply be a case of kundalini awakening of which the flavor I've not yet experienced.
Some other things she says she experiences is pain in her limbs during deep meditation, which she assures me is not a very strong tactile charism (buzzing of the inner body), as she says it is distinctly different.
Another concerning experience she reports, is frequent dreams which are terrifying. When we first met, she told me of these dreams and that she has had them most of her life. The descriptions she provided, along with frequent "sleep paralysis" accompanied by a sense of sinister presence. The dreams (she journals all dreams religiously) were already present before we met,and they immediately concerned me. Unlike her usual calm and peaceful external demeanor, about once a week I wake to her suddenly jolting awake and crying.
So,we have:
1) Full body spasms during meditation and relaxation (Kundalini complications?)
2) Pain in limbs during meditation
3) Persistent terrifying dreams going back many, many years
4) Frequent sleep paralysis accompanied by a sense of sinister presence and sometimes pain in the back
She's speaking to me right now trying to get more in (pain in the pineal gland), but I'd prefer she create an account and engage directly, so I'll leave that for her.
If/when she makes an account, I will link to her first post introducing herself right here.
Any thoughts?
Also, can we give her access to create an account? I see it is locked down.
(Oh, and I wanted to thank Jhanananda "publically" for his patience and guidance. Even though I'm rarely on here these past few years, he's really supported me when I needed it most.
Thank You, my friend, for your selfless service.)
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1) Full body spasms during meditation and relaxation (Kundalini complications?)
This and your more detailed description above sounds like classic kundalini, which is good. The idea with any of the charismatic phenema that arrises during meditation is we should attend to the phenomena full in deep meditation, and allow it to take us as deep as we can go.
2) Pain in limbs during meditation
this sounds a bit strange, but it could be intense charism being interpreted by the mind as pain, or it could be a trace mineral deficiencce.
3) Persistent terrifying dreams going back many, many years
People who meditate deeply can experience lucid dremaing and out-of-body experiences these can be either blissful or frightening. It just depends where one projects in the immaterial domains. If we project into the heavenly dimensions, then the experience will be blissful; whereas, if we project into the hell plains, then the experience will be hellish.
4) Frequent sleep paralysis accompanied by a sense of sinister presence and sometimes pain in the back
sleep apnea is a characterisitc of the pre-OOBE state. I was prescribed a CPAP machine 2 years ago, and once I conntected an air purifier to its intake I stopped having sleep apnea, but continued to have OOBEs evvery night.
She's speaking to me right now trying to get more in (pain in the pineal gland), but I'd prefer she create an account and engage directly, so I'll leave that for her.
If/when she makes an account, I will link to her first post introducing herself right here.
Any thoughts?
Also, can we give her access to create an account? I see it is locked down.
(Oh, and I wanted to thank Jhanananda "publically" for his patience and guidance. Even though I'm rarely on here these past few years, he's really supported me when I needed it most.
Thank You, my friend, for your selfless service.)
It is my understanding that anyone can click the link at the top of the home page here that will send me an email with their request. If not just send me here user name she wants and her email address and I will ad her to this forum.
A few years ago we had so much SPAM attacking here that I just had to close down auto memebrship and had to add people manually.