Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Case Histories with religious experiences => : rougeleader115 December 18, 2013, 06:00:06 PM
-
Hello to everyone,
I want to start off by first thanking you Jhanananda for allowing me to post here.
I am 21 years old and I have been meditating on and off since early summer of 2011. I started off meditating sporadically about 20-30 minutes once and sometimes two times a day but only about 4 or 5 days out of the week. But by August 2012, I had found a few online gurus who insisted on meditating at least a few hours everyday. I was desperate and I had not tried meditating that much and decided (against the advice of the neo-advaitans) to try it out, just in case 2012 just so happened to be the end. I found pushing into the hour mark gave my mind and body time to settle and truely begin to relax. The pose I have used almost every time has been lying flat on my back with a small pillow behind my head. Sometimes I sit on a pillow or bed to work on sitting meditation, but I'm still working through a lot of tension and trauma I caused to my body playing sports in my teenage years. But since starting meditation I have become aware of a lot of pain in my body. I had surgery earlier this year, and since then it has been like my body has been under constant reconstruction. I had not realized how bad my posture had been and how injuries had altered the way my bones and muscles carried my weight. So stretching has been my bodies savior as well as mediation by helping me become aware of and relax those tensions.
I started to enjoy meditation so much because I found a lot of relief from both my physical and mental issues. But shortly after November 2012, I began to find fears coming up. There were just simple things like my fear of heights that was challenged first by the floating sensation I would feeling in meditation. Sometimes it would just feel like I was high up and I would feel nervous. Or a full body warmth that felt like I was being lightly baked in the sun or a fever (couldn't help but think maybe it was the devil or a demon). By this point I was meditating at 1-1.5 hour intervals about 3-6 times a day. Then within the following weeks I found that a lot of fear was coming up due to the sensations I began to feel. Piercing and expanding sensations in my head, throat, and heart throughout the day. A tickling at the top of my head like ants on my brain, and a sort of sensation like I am about to float out of that tickley sensation at the top of my head (feels weird trying to explain that feeling). The sensations grew more and more until around February when they were so intense, that I could not sit still without some kind of distraction. I felt like I was being wiped out by the sensations and was really afraid of possession.
My vision field was beginning to get a high definition quality to it and sometimes it felt as though there was just too much for me to see. The same happened to my hearing in that it felt as though no noise in the vicinity went past without me hearing it. There were a couple of days I just laid down in great fear because I couldn't shut anything off and distract myself. Sleep was my only comfort, what little I could get. At just random intervals I would just get waves of energy in my body and the various sensations would get stronger at the same time. Throughout the day, it was usually intense enough to feel like I was going to lose track of myself physically or mentally. I also began to have dark blue almost opaque orbs and sometimes a very quick static flash in my vision field(I am not certain if these are charismatic). I thought I was going blind and went to get my eyes checked out and was told they were fine regardless of those symptoms. As for the tinnitus I have, I can not tell you the origination of it. I remember hearing it in silence when I was young and about to take a nap or sleep, so maybe I was born with it if that even happens? So I can't say that it is charismatic either, it has never changed to another sound, it sounds like I'm hearing it in both ears, and I hear it with earplugs and no external disturbances. It does get louder sometimes on its own, and seems to become more noticable when I meditate consistantly, but that could just be me being more aware of it. It kept me from sleeping when I first began to notice it was always there earlier this year, but I've been feeling a little easier about it lately.
I stopped meditating from April till June out of fear, and the orbs disappeared from my vision, as well as the floating out of my head kind of feeling which gave me a more grounded feeling. But when the sensations in the chakras and light waves of energy throughout the day started to slow down, I found myself being agitated by life again and missed the kind of cushion the sensations felt like to the harshness of the world. So I began meditating for an hour in the morning and at night, and sometimes during the day, and they turned up in intensity according the time I spent in meditation. No visual stuff now, but intense body sensations that sometimes feels like a palpable big fat grub wiggling in my chest and head, it is oddly pleasant but still intense at times. I also had come across the GWV around July and that helped me to feel like maybe these things aren't pathalogical or made up.
As for what actually happens in meditation, I usually begin by lying down and relaxing my body. I follow my breath if I need to, but recently I just sink into the energy or feel for the piercing or tingling in my heart. After my mind and body settle a bit(which definitely varies in time every session), the sensations get stronger and eventually I start to be mainly aware of the energy sensations and my body falls into a secondary awareness. Most sessions have ended up with me A)falling asleep B)going unconcious or into black (cant tell which one) C) what I think might be lucid dreaming or D) Just enjoying the sensations arise and intensify and then ease after about an hour and a half. I have not had any activity in my spine or a jolt up the back.
Also at night, especially the nights I meditate right as I'm falling asleep, I find I have what I think are lucid dreams all night if not just nothing. I feel aware in the dreams, but not like "I am dreaming". The reason I don't know is because I still go through with reactions as if everything is normal in the dream. Like if I'm all of a sudden in someones car going somewhere, I don't question it, its as if I just woke up in the next situation and go along with it. The other night I was some random prisoner on a bus, and a few guys decided to escape and I was appearantly supposed to be going with them. I didn't question like I would here and rationalize that I probably wouldnt get away with it, or even that I was a prisoner randomly, instead I ran with them immediately like I was meant to. Is this lucid or just a regular dream? When does a lucid dream cross the line into an OOBE?
I realize now that this isn't necessarily an introduction, but I am working on it. I will get a more proper introduction down when I get the time to do so, but for now hello and thank you for reading. :)
I apologize for the length and if it doesn't make sense in some areas. Please give me any guidance as to what's what in this description so for, and please let me know if I need to make corrections in my practice. I have read many of your writings and book, and watched many of your videos, but this is the closest I can get to actually talking to you about these things.
-
Hello to everyone,
I want to start off by first thanking you Jhanananda for allowing me to post here.
Welcome rougeleader115, and thank-you for posting your kind words of support.
I am 21 years old and I have been meditating on and off since early summer of 2011. I started off meditating sporadically about 20-30 minutes once and sometimes two times a day but only about 4 or 5 days out of the week. But by August 2012, I had found a few online gurus who insisted on meditating at least a few hours everyday. I was desperate and I had not tried meditating that much and decided (against the advice of the neo-advaitans) to try it out, just in case 2012 just so happened to be the end. I found pushing into the hour mark gave my mind and body time to settle and truely begin to relax.
Relaxation is a key component in deep meditation that those who never get to deep meditation can never accomplish.
The pose I have used almost every time has been lying flat on my back with a small pillow behind my head.
While most of my meditation practice was in cross-legged sitting pose, and I recommend it for deep meditation; nonetheless, most of the people posting here their case histories meditate lying down.
Sometimes I sit on a pillow or bed to work on sitting meditation, but I'm still working through a lot of tension and trauma I caused to my body playing sports in my teenage years. But since starting meditation I have become aware of a lot of pain in my body. I had surgery earlier this year, and since then it has been like my body has been under constant reconstruction. I had not realized how bad my posture had been and how injuries had altered the way my bones and muscles carried my weight. So stretching has been my bodies savior as well as mediation by helping me become aware of and relax those tensions.
Deep meditation does tend to clue us into our bodily needs. The deep relaxation of deep meditation also tends to repair body damage, making deep meditation useful for healing work.
I started to enjoy meditation so much because I found a lot of relief from both my physical and mental issues. But shortly after November 2012, I began to find fears coming up. There were just simple things like my fear of heights that was challenged first by the floating sensation I would feeling in meditation. Sometimes it would just feel like I was high up and I would feel nervous. Or a full body warmth that felt like I was being lightly baked in the sun or a fever (couldn't help but think maybe it was the devil or a demon). By this point I was meditating at 1-1.5 hour intervals about 3-6 times a day.
Deep meditation requires self-awareness, and that self-awareness tends to clue us into our subconscious emotional problems, which is something that people who never arrive at deep meditation obviously lack self-awareness, among other things.
Fear of demon-possession is also common among those who meditate deeply, because there is just so little factual information about deep meditation states, and so much nonsense about demonic possession etc.
Then within the following weeks I found that a lot of fear was coming up due to the sensations I began to feel. Piercing and expanding sensations in my head, throat, and heart throughout the day. A tickling at the top of my head like ants on my brain, and a sort of sensation like I am about to float out of that tickley sensation at the top of my head (feels weird trying to explain that feeling). The sensations grew more and more until around February when they were so intense, that I could not sit still without some kind of distraction. I felt like I was being wiped out by the sensations and was really afraid of possession.
These all sound like classic charisms.
My vision field was beginning to get a high definition quality to it and sometimes it felt as though there was just too much for me to see. The same happened to my hearing in that it felt as though no noise in the vicinity went past without me hearing it.
This is classic hypersensitivity.
There were a couple of days I just laid down in great fear because I couldn't shut anything off and distract myself. Sleep was my only comfort, what little I could get. At just random intervals I would just get waves of energy in my body and the various sensations would get stronger at the same time. Throughout the day, it was usually intense enough to feel like I was going to lose track of myself physically or mentally. I also began to have dark blue almost opaque orbs and sometimes a very quick static flash in my vision field(I am not certain if these are charismatic). I thought I was going blind and went to get my eyes checked out and was told they were fine regardless of those symptoms. As for the tinnitus I have, I can not tell you the origination of it. I remember hearing it in silence when I was young and about to take a nap or sleep, so maybe I was born with it if that even happens? So I can't say that it is charismatic either, it has never changed to another sound, it sounds like I'm hearing it in both ears, and I hear it with earplugs and no external disturbances. It does get louder sometimes on its own, and seems to become more noticable when I meditate consistantly, but that could just be me being more aware of it. It kept me from sleeping when I first began to notice it was always there earlier this year, but I've been feeling a little easier about it lately.
These could be charismatic, but maybe not.
I stopped meditating from April till June out of fear, and the orbs disappeared from my vision, as well as the floating out of my head kind of feeling which gave me a more grounded feeling. But when the sensations in the chakras and light waves of energy throughout the day started to slow down, I found myself being agitated by life again and missed the kind of cushion the sensations felt like to the harshness of the world. So I began meditating for an hour in the morning and at night, and sometimes during the day, and they turned up in intensity according the time I spent in meditation. No visual stuff now, but intense body sensations that sometimes feels like a palpable big fat grub wiggling in my chest and head, it is oddly pleasant but still intense at times. I also had come across the GWV around July and that helped me to feel like maybe these things aren't pathalogical or made up.
How you know that these are charisms is they respond to the practice of meditation.
As for what actually happens in meditation, I usually begin by lying down and relaxing my body. I follow my breath if I need to, but recently I just sink into the energy or feel for the piercing or tingling in my heart. After my mind and body settle a bit(which definitely varies in time every session), the sensations get stronger and eventually I start to be mainly aware of the energy sensations and my body falls into a secondary awareness. Most sessions have ended up with me A)falling asleep B)going unconcious or into black (cant tell which one) C) what I think might be lucid dreaming or D) Just enjoying the sensations arise and intensify and then ease after about an hour and a half. I have not had any activity in my spine or a jolt up the back.
Also at night, especially the nights I meditate right as I'm falling asleep, I find I have what I think are lucid dreams all night if not just nothing. I feel aware in the dreams, but not like "I am dreaming". The reason I don't know is because I still go through with reactions as if everything is normal in the dream. Like if I'm all of a sudden in someones car going somewhere, I don't question it, its as if I just woke up in the next situation and go along with it. The other night I was some random prisoner on a bus, and a few guys decided to escape and I was appearantly supposed to be going with them. I didn't question like I would here and rationalize that I probably wouldnt get away with it, or even that I was a prisoner randomly, instead I ran with them immediately like I was meant to. Is this lucid or just a regular dream? When does a lucid dream cross the line into an OOBE?
This is clearly lucid dreaming. It becomes an OOBE when you have control, and you know that you are out-of-body.
I realize now that this isn't necessarily an introduction, but I am working on it. I will get a more proper introduction down when I get the time to do so, but for now hello and thank you for reading. :)
I apologize for the length and if it doesn't make sense in some areas. Please give me any guidance as to what's what in this description so for, and please let me know if I need to make corrections in my practice. I have read many of your writings and book, and watched many of your videos, but this is the closest I can get to actually talking to you about these things.
Welcome, you are doing fine, just keep it up. You do not have to learn any lingo at all.
-
Hello Jhanananda,
Thank you for your suggestions and answering my questions. I will work on building up my sitting practice. I will also not worry about my tinnitus since I cannot tell if it is charismatic, and because it doesn't increase in volume besides my attention being on it in meditation. Now about the hypersensitivity, I haven't had to experience it as badly as the beginning months of this year, even though I started meditating again. And a lot of intense emotions came up during the hypersensitivity. Would it be wise to continue meditating during a time when the senses feel too receptive and emotions are intensifying?
I am also glad to hear that these dreams are at least lucid dreams. They were so real feeling sometimes that they'd imprint like a waking memory, and I'm sure it will only gain in intensity. I will allow the OOBE to blossom on its own because I feel as if I should allow the base of equanimity to grow more in myself. I have found a definite decrease in fear(and emotional intensity in general) in regards to many of the situations and circumstances I have found myself in since beginning to meditate. But I know too that things can and do pop up that feel like triggers just specifically for those issues I think I've gotten through. I can actually feel the difference in my internal space of not feeling so gripped by my emotions and desires. But obviously I have not worked through all of my issues or else I would not still feel like they are lurking around in me waiting. Since around the age of 16, I have had many lucid dreams of watching loved ones die, killing people(including loved ones), and also of being killed myself. When I first started to have these, I thought I was going schizophrenic and went to have many tests done and saw a psychiatrist. I was told I had PTSD which was leading me to be dissociative, have bad dreams, and insomnia, and that I was most likely going to be schizophrenic as I aged. Those symptoms persisted strongly until I was about 19-20 and I began meditating. I went through a time that felt like meditation was going to be the thing that made me an official schizophrenic because I found myself more dissociative, my insomnia got worse (so more nights spent lying awake all night, or passing out for short intervals with no dreams), and with all that my nightmares seemed to increase so that whenever I could sleep, I would have nightmares to wake me right back up.
Things are a little more stable since the summertime. I am able to sleep for the most part easily with no medication(5-6 hours), still have strange and sometimes violent dreams, but I don't feel as broken apart mentally when they get bad or I watch a loved one die or disown me. Would this be considered a building of equanimity?
As for dissociation, it is weird to explain. I went through a phase of letting the dissociation have its way and now I find can't necessarily relate to a person and their emotions over specific situations. I may know how things are making them feel, and I may even feel their stress(or excitment), but sometimes I just cant seem to react in an absolutely genuine way to express that I am happy or sad for them. I had gotten alright at doing it for appearances in school, but my loved ones know that at times I seem cold and very distant to everything, even when I don't necessarily feel cold(I may even feel strongly). It just feels like for so many intense emotions, they were so much that I couldn't even find a way to express it, so I would just be quiet. Sometimes it felt like nothing short of wailing at the sky or killing myself would work. I feel as though I care even more than your average person in some situations but I may not show it (not for appearances, just naturally because the external reactions sometimes seem to take extra effort to display), but if your were inside of me it could be felt just how much is flowing(whether good or bad).
Were you ever judged for "not caring enough"? Is this normal to experience?
I know that I cannot help but ask questions you have heard many times before, but please know you are of tremendous help to me and I'm sure many others here and through your work. You have given more meaning to my life than I have ever felt. I thought there was nothing in my future but pain and death (aka suffering), and even if there is much of that in my future, I never would have dreamed there was bliss, joy, and ecstasy waiting to be carried along through that suffering. Even though it doesn't make my life the piece of cake walk I had previously craved for, it has softened some of its razor sharp edges so that I may not get cut and bled so easily. Thank you.
In time I will make a post under lucid dreaming, if there isn't a good one already, and ask any lingering questions I have for right now. And I also have some questions on ethics and how you all have made a living with meditative absorption, but I will find a place for those as well.
And Jhadon, I hope that you read this far, I wanted to say thank you for your reply a few days ago. I read it but no longer see it for me to respond to. It was very supportive and though I can't remember what it said specifically, I was grateful for your help as well. I hope things go well for us both in exploring these states. :)
My final question for right now is, how should I go about getting over my fear of the blissful feelings being overwhelming? The bliss feels wonderful and clean, unlike any drug I've had, but also at times way more intense than anything I've experienced. Will dipping myself into the bliss over and over make me feel more comfortable(kind of like exposure therapy) or is there something else specific I should be doing?
Rougeleader
-
Hello Jhanananda,
Thank you for your suggestions and answering my questions. I will work on building up my sitting practice. I will also not worry about my tinnitus since I cannot tell if it is charismatic, and because it doesn't increase in volume besides my attention being on it in meditation.
Well the definition of the difference between tinnitus and charismatic sound is the sounds get louder when you meditate. So, if they do, then I will take it as charismatic.
Now about the hypersensitivity, I haven't had to experience it as badly as the beginning months of this year, even though I started meditating again. And a lot of intense emotions came up during the hypersensitivity. Would it be wise to continue meditating during a time when the senses feel too receptive and emotions are intensifying?
Yes, whenever the world seems to be too much for us, then it is best to learn to take refuge in meditation, especially meditation that results in the religious experience (samadhi).
I am also glad to hear that these dreams are at least lucid dreams. They were so real feeling sometimes that they'd imprint like a waking memory, and I'm sure it will only gain in intensity.
There are a number of definitions of lucid dreaming, most of which I reject. The key definition of lucid dreaming that I go by is, relative realism. If it seems "real" then it is lucid.
I will allow the OOBE to blossom on its own because I feel as if I should allow the base of equanimity to grow more in myself. I have found a definite decrease in fear(and emotional intensity in general) in regards to many of the situations and circumstances I have found myself in since beginning to meditate. But I know too that things can and do pop up that feel like triggers just specifically for those issues I think I've gotten through. I can actually feel the difference in my internal space of not feeling so gripped by my emotions and desires. But obviously I have not worked through all of my issues or else I would not still feel like they are lurking around in me waiting.
The deeper we go into meditation, and the religious experience, and the more often we do so, then the greater our tranquility and equanimity become. However, there are limits. We can be driven mad like anyone else, so, to maintain our tranquility and equanimity we often find it necessary to modify our lifestyle to make it more conducive to these attainments.
Since around the age of 16, I have had many lucid dreams of watching loved ones die, killing people(including loved ones), and also of being killed myself. When I first started to have these, I thought I was going schizophrenic and went to have many tests done and saw a psychiatrist. I was told I had PTSD which was leading me to be dissociative, have bad dreams, and insomnia, and that I was most likely going to be schizophrenic as I aged. Those symptoms persisted strongly until I was about 19-20 and I began meditating. I went through a time that felt like meditation was going to be the thing that made me an official schizophrenic because I found myself more dissociative, my insomnia got worse (so more nights spent lying awake all night, or passing out for short intervals with no dreams), and with all that my nightmares seemed to increase so that whenever I could sleep, I would have nightmares to wake me right back up.
As long as the psychiatric community dismisses the religious experience as nothing more the religious psychosis, then mystics, like you and I, will just get medicated until we drool.
Things are a little more stable since the summertime. I am able to sleep for the most part easily with no medication(5-6 hours), still have strange and sometimes violent dreams, but I don't feel as broken apart mentally when they get bad or I watch a loved one die or disown me. Would this be considered a building of equanimity?
Many of our lucid dreams are recollections of previous lifetimes, and what stands out most are often the most dramatic, or traumatic events, which are the births and deaths. So, one is likely to go through a period of lucid dreams about death and dying. I did. Psychiatrists are going to look at that dream content and raise your dosage level.
As for dissociation, it is weird to explain. I went through a phase of letting the dissociation have its way and now I find can't necessarily relate to a person and their emotions over specific situations. I may know how things are making them feel, and I may even feel their stress(or excitment), but sometimes I just cant seem to react in an absolutely genuine way to express that I am happy or sad for them. I had gotten alright at doing it for appearances in school, but my loved ones know that at times I seem cold and very distant to everything, even when I don't necessarily feel cold(I may even feel strongly). It just feels like for so many intense emotions, they were so much that I couldn't even find a way to express it, so I would just be quiet. Sometimes it felt like nothing short of wailing at the sky or killing myself would work. I feel as though I care even more than your average person in some situations but I may not show it (not for appearances, just naturally because the external reactions sometimes seem to take extra effort to display), but if your were inside of me it could be felt just how much is flowing(whether good or bad).
Were you ever judged for "not caring enough"? Is this normal to experience?
The religious experience (samadhi) is characterized by tranquility, equanimity and a non-dual perspective upon life. This is incorrectly diagnosed by psychiatrists as a disassociated state. So, yes, I spend most of my time in this state, and I love it.
I know that I cannot help but ask questions you have heard many times before, but please know you are of tremendous help to me and I'm sure many others here and through your work. You have given more meaning to my life than I have ever felt. I thought there was nothing in my future but pain and death (aka suffering), and even if there is much of that in my future, I never would have dreamed there was bliss, joy, and ecstasy waiting to be carried along through that suffering. Even though it doesn't make my life the piece of cake walk I had previously craved for, it has softened some of its razor sharp edges so that I may not get cut and bled so easily. Thank you.
The endless repetitions that tend to drive me bat guano is the endless questioning of the central premises that are required to grasp to understand the contemplative life and how it can, but not necessarily, lead to the religious experience; especially when they are asked by people who never get there and are unwilling to believe that they have bought into a mountain of nonsense, and until they unpack their erroneous belief systems, they are never going to allow themselves to have a genuine religious experience.
I expect that everyone who comes here is going to ask much the same questions about their religious experience, and they do, and that does not bother me.
In time I will make a post under lucid dreaming, if there isn't a good one already, and ask any lingering questions I have for right now. And I also have some questions on ethics and how you all have made a living with meditative absorption, but I will find a place for those as well.
And Jhadon, I hope that you read this far, I wanted to say thank you for your reply a few days ago. I read it but no longer see it for me to respond to. It was very supportive and though I can't remember what it said specifically, I was grateful for your help as well. I hope things go well for us both in exploring these states. :)
My final question for right now is, how should I go about getting over my fear of the blissful feelings being overwhelming? The bliss feels wonderful and clean, unlike any drug I've had, but also at times way more intense than anything I've experienced. Will dipping myself into the bliss over and over make me feel more comfortable(kind of like exposure therapy) or is there something else specific I should be doing?
Rougeleader
Yes, putting your toe into the water gets you used to accepting that it is wet, and that it is enjoyable. But, you know that there are deep spots in the river, because you fall in from time to time, and you have not learned to swim yet. You learn where the deep spots are, and you learn to avoid them until you gain confidence in your swimming ability, or acquire some scuba diving equipment. In between time you might take some swimming lessons.
I hope that metaphor works for you.
-
Hey Rougeleader,
You saw that, huh? :)
I deleted it because I felt I was being overwhelming and did not represent Jhananda or the group as well as I would prefer. Despite no one in this group (Sangha?) ever saying something to this effect, I intend to show my gratitude and respect for them in any way I can. This was the motivation behind deleting it. I didn't want to be the over eager dog that turns off the newcomer before they get through the door--Ha!
However, I am pleased you felt the warm welcome I intended. Despite barely knowing you, and some of this group, I have a strong appreciatiom for all mystics/contemplatives. We all know how challenging this path can be. From the rigors of cleansing of our past, to most everyone not understanding us, to experiences so powerful we might seem crazy. It is a gift to have fellow contemplatives. This should be at least one place where we all feel welcome. And yes, I realize the latter part of this message contradicts my motivations for deleting the prior post. The middle way can be tricky!
I hope to respond more to the mystical content of your posts when I get time to use the laptop later.
Hope to see you continuing to post. I, for one, never get tired of reading posts on here :)
PS I fully agree with everything Jhananda just said. In regard to psychiatrists and "disorders", have a look at my and Michel's entries in the "Case Histories." Although I forgot to mention it in those posts, I was also diagnosed with PTSD. I hope relating to you my many brushes with western medicine provides you with some comforting perspective in relation to your own brushes with them.
Also, excellent swimming metaphor, Jhananda.
-
Also, excellent swimming metaphor, Jhananda.
Thanks, but I had read your response and liked it. I did not not know that you had deleted it, and I am sorry you did so. Please feel free to respond to people here, because this is a forum for mystics, not a soap box for me, or for born-again, fundamentalist Buddhists.
-
Hello Jhanon and Jhanananda,
No worries here, I did feel very welcome from your responses. I too try not to come on too strong for the sake of not scaring others away. But please feel free to express yourself when talking to me. I have read through many of the post from Michel and Jhanananda, and I hope soon to talk to and read more from Michel as well. I would love to respond to some of your posts and others here, I am just a little slower than I thought I'd be. I'm glad that we can relate about things like psychiatric diagnoses, it helps me feel like much less of a victim when I see it is so common. I like the metaphor you used as well Jhanananda. And I apologize from spelling your name as "Jhadon" in my last post, I don't know why I thought that was what I read haha.
Rougeleader
-
...I apologize from spelling your name as "Jhadon" in my last post, I don't know why I thought that was what I read haha.
Rougeleader
No problem, Rougeleader, I thought you were referring to Jhanon, but I have dyslexia, so I am used to misspelling names and words all of the time, so it is not big deal to me.
-
Also, excellent swimming metaphor, Jhananda.
Thanks, but I had read your response and liked it. I did not not know that you had deleted it, and I am sorry you did so. Please feel free to respond to people here, because this is a forum for mystics, not a soap box for me, or for born-again, fundamentalist Buddhists.
Thank you, and duly noted. I've been attempting to censor myself in one way or another for so long, it is often difficult to remember that I don't have to do that here. I'm so used to people looking at me like there is something wrong with me (the same way, Rogueleader, you were talking about people saying you "Don't care enough"--which incidentally, has also happened to me throughout life). Huh--I never consciously acknowledged that bit about censoring myself until just now. The truth of the matter is that I externally process very well, and if that means full enlightenment sooner, then maybe I will just say what I have to say on here from now on. Maybe it will look like I am self-absorbed or the eager dog at the door. Suppose I'll probably never be the spitting image of the Buddha or the other mystics of past, but I can at least attain the superior fruit.
...I apologize from spelling your name as "Jhadon" in my last post, I don't know why I thought that was what I read haha.
Rougeleader
No problem, Rougeleader, I thought you were referring to Jhanon, but I have dyslexia, so I am used to misspelling names and words all of the time, so it is not big deal to me.
Jhananda, I would never have guessed you have dyslexia. It is very interesting to me that almost every mystic I've met has been diagnosed with some kind of mental or cognitive "disorder". Yet these people are among the brightest and wisest I've ever known of.
Hello Jhanon and Jhanananda,
No worries here, I did feel very welcome from your responses. I too try not to come on too strong for the sake of not scaring others away. But please feel free to express yourself when talking to me. I have read through many of the post from Michel and Jhanananda, and I hope soon to talk to and read more from Michel as well. I would love to respond to some of your posts and others here, I am just a little slower than I thought I'd be. I'm glad that we can relate about things like psychiatric diagnoses, it helps me feel like much less of a victim when I see it is so common. I like the metaphor you used as well Jhanananda. And I apologize from spelling your name as "Jhadon" in my last post, I don't know why I thought that was what I read haha.
No worries about the name, friend. And I am glad we share in efforts to not come on too strong. I could somehow sense that in your posts, and I think this is part of the reason I was so eager to greet you. Ironic how it turned out.
My vision field was beginning to get a high definition quality to it and sometimes it felt as though there was just too much for me to see. The same happened to my hearing in that it felt as though no noise in the vicinity went past without me hearing it.
This is classic hypersensitivity.
It's interesting you mention this. I distinctly recall a few instances before the more powerful mystical experiences happened, where this high definition vision happened. For me, everything was clearer and sharper, more detail, but what I remember most was it was as if I was simultaneously processing MUCH more. Everything, including the periphery, seemed crystal clear, and I was aware of it all at once. It was as if the tiny speck of focus we usually have was widened to encompass all of the visual field. It was a profound feeling. The one I remember best is while driving. I do not recall if this also included other senses.
Jhananda, was I just mis-interpreting or imagining things? Or is this is indeed possible? If so, is it possible to always have everything in the visual field focused and processed? Is this how you avoided the accident you posted somewhere else, the one where you had a van-load of people that were shocked you avoided it? I also believe I recall you saying on the GWV site that you encompass all your senses simultaneously within one awareness. I also noticed in your videos that you appear to be able to do many things at once while carrying on deep conversations.
If I understand your writings about encompassing your six senses within awareness correctly, and from experience I know similar things happen during meditation (and awareness encompassing vast reaches in the immaterial domains), and that by its nature I think awareness is unbounded, then by that reasoning it seems possible to do this with vision during daily life? Does this is all connect the way it seems? Wait!.....
In other words, is it possible, during daily life, to be consistently, simultaneously and continuously aware of everything that hits the senses? Not just jumping from one sense-impact to the other, but everything AT ONCE?
I don't know why this is so captivating to contemplate, but I think I am starting to understand something revelatory about "ADHD". I can't put it into words yet, but it is deeply relieving and touching to think about it. I don't know why or what, but there just seems to be something here that explains a lot.
Even if I am just drunk on impossibilities, I have to say it again; I am so grateful for this forum, the GWV and Jhananda. Never in this life have I felt as good as I have since finding my way here.
-
...Maybe it will look like I am self-absorbed or the eager dog at the door. Suppose I'll probably never be the spitting image of the Buddha or the other mystics of past, but I can at least attain the superior fruit.
This is where I hope the mystics among us will find a comfortable home, where they can finely feel safe to express themselves. There is no reason why any of us have to be like any mystic in the past. We can be the buddhas of the present and future. Most of us here have already demonstrated that the superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala) is possible to attain, because we are attaining. If one of us can attain it, then we all can.
Jhananda, I would never have guessed you have dyslexia. It is very interesting to me that almost every mystic I've met has been diagnosed with some kind of mental or cognitive "disorder". Yet these people are among the brightest and wisest I've ever known of.
It took computerized spell checkers, + google, + heavy self-editing to finally get to the point of being able to write so that others can read it.
Yes, I agree, it seems to be a characteristic of the mystic that we are too often misdiagnosed. It will take a community of mystics to force the culture to accept our differences.
It's interesting you mention this. I distinctly recall a few instances before the more powerful mystical experiences happened, where this high definition vision happened. For me, everything was clearer and sharper, more detail, but what I remember most was it was as if I was simultaneously processing MUCH more. Everything, including the periphery, seemed crystal clear, and I was aware of it all at once. It was as if the tiny speck of focus we usually have was widened to encompass all of the visual field. It was a profound feeling. The one I remember best is while driving. I do not recall if this also included other senses.
Jhananda, was I just mis-interpreting or imagining things? Or is this is indeed possible? If so, is it possible to always have everything in the visual field focused and processed? Is this how you avoided the accident you posted somewhere else, the one where you had a van-load of people that were shocked you avoided it? I also believe I recall you saying on the GWV site that you encompass all your senses simultaneously within one awareness. I also noticed in your videos that you appear to be able to do many things at once while carrying on deep conversations.
Good memory, correct, we can walk and drive through life with this type of "high-definition" or "panoramic view" by keeping our mind in the present, and still, and upon the charisms, we can even avoid accidents, as you recalled correctly, by seeing all of the obstacles in our way at once, and reacting in precisely how we need to, without engaging the mind, or emotions in that reaction. By no coincidence, this is also how the martial artist works.
If I understand your writings about encompassing your six senses within awareness correctly, and from experience I know similar things happen during meditation (and awareness encompassing vast reaches in the immaterial domains), and that by its nature I think awareness is unbounded, then by that reasoning it seems possible to do this with vision during daily life? Does this is all connect the way it seems? Wait!.....
In other words, is it possible, during daily life, to be consistently, simultaneously and continuously aware of everything that hits the senses? Not just jumping from one sense-impact to the other, but everything AT ONCE?
Yes, awareness, is unbound, and non-local. It happens to reside in this body temporarily, but it can move to other location at will. This is how I move through life, so there is no reason why all of you could not do so.
I don't know why this is so captivating to contemplate, but I think I am starting to understand something revelatory about "ADHD". I can't put it into words yet, but it is deeply relieving and touching to think about it. I don't know why or what, but there just seems to be something here that explains a lot.
Both of you have expressed panoramic view, but, psychiatry would medicate you if you told them about it. So, I can see how you would find it very useful that others have what you have.
Even if I am just drunk on impossibilities, I have to say it again; I am so grateful for this forum, the GWV and Jhananda. Never in this life have I felt as good as I have since finding my way here.
Well, I hope you all have found a home, where you are free to express yourself with people who are much like you.
-
Thank you, and duly noted. I've been attempting to censor myself in one way or another for so long, it is often difficult to remember that I don't have to do that here. I'm so used to people looking at me like there is something wrong with me (the same way, Rogueleader, you were talking about people saying you "Don't care enough"--which incidentally, has also happened to me throughout life). Huh--I never consciously acknowledged that bit about censoring myself until just now. The truth of the matter is that I externally process very well, and if that means full enlightenment sooner, then maybe I will just say what I have to say on here from now on. Maybe it will look like I am self-absorbed or the eager dog at the door. Suppose I'll probably never be the spitting image of the Buddha or the other mystics of past, but I can at least attain the superior fruit.
That censorship is what I at least try to encourage others to break free from around me. I felt as though it brought up many more unneeded issues in my relationships than was expected, or the relationship never went below surface level. I'm not at all perfect in being open (but I work on it when the situation allows, such as on this forum), but I have found my life and relationships much more enjoyable and touching when we decide not to hide ourselves so much or judge so heavily. I'm glad you are deciding to say what you have to say because it will bring comfort for others to say what they need to without harsh judgement. There of course some things that do much more harm than good and should be avoided, but I think most of us aren't out to intentionally harm anyone here, so I have much less fear about speaking about these things openly even though I never really have before.
It's interesting you mention this. I distinctly recall a few instances before the more powerful mystical experiences happened, where this high definition vision happened. For me, everything was clearer and sharper, more detail, but what I remember most was it was as if I was simultaneously processing MUCH more. Everything, including the periphery, seemed crystal clear, and I was aware of it all at once. It was as if the tiny speck of focus we usually have was widened to encompass all of the visual field. It was a profound feeling. The one I remember best is while driving. I do not recall if this also included other senses.
Jhananda, was I just mis-interpreting or imagining things? Or is this is indeed possible? If so, is it possible to always have everything in the visual field focused and processed? Is this how you avoided the accident you posted somewhere else, the one where you had a van-load of people that were shocked you avoided it? I also believe I recall you saying on the GWV site that you encompass all your senses simultaneously within one awareness. I also noticed in your videos that you appear to be able to do many things at once while carrying on deep conversations.
Good memory, correct, we can walk and drive through life with this type of "high-definition" or "panoramic view" by keeping our mind in the present, and still, and upon the charisms, we can even avoid accidents, as you recalled correctly, by seeing all of the obstacles in our way at once, and reacting in precisely how we need to, without engaging the mind, or emotions in that reaction. By no coincidence, this is also how the martial artist works.
I will definitely try utilizing this when these types of things begin to happen:"keeping our mind in the present, and still, and upon the charisms"
I find it amazing to hear you two talk about this being related to meditative absorption. I used to tell my friends that after about my 3rd year of training in martial arts, I began to get a full view of my opponent during a match. This made it very easy to watch them shift their weight for an attack, or see how they distributed themselves in real-time. At the same time I was also finding it easier to move and attack spontaneously when I let my mind go and moved and flowed with the fight(I know this sounds like a cliche, which I'm sure is why no one listened to me, but I was amazed to find it actually worked), instead of moving within a set number of movements that had been practiced repetitively. This made my last year of fighting like I was learning to dance, instead of being so head forward and brutal.
This makes it seem possible that I was experiencing some portion of jhana during training and matches. I was practicing 2-4 hours about 3-5 days a week for about 4 years. This is also the reason I have a lot of body tensions because I surely didn't listen to my body sensitively during that time, besides when it was injured.
When it began to intensify earlier this year on a more consistent basis, I thought I had done something terribly wrong with my practice. I was afraid I had tried too hard, which is still at least partially true. If we use the metaphor, I could say in my desperation to learn to swim, I walked out into the river until I started to feel my feet slip from beneath me from the current. Now I know to take it easier and have some patience, which should have been common sense in the first place. Without any guidance in sight, I did become desperate though. I'm glad I made it here.
Yes, awareness, is unbound, and non-local. It happens to reside in this body temporarily, but it can move to other location at will. This is how I move through life, so there is no reason why all of you could not do so.
I feel as if I've had a few glimpses of this, at least to the point of seeing my point of view leave the range of my body a few times. These were mostly traumatic for me sadly, because I had absolutely no control where I ended up, which made me feel like I could easily lose track of my body.
Is it possible for that to happen? How do you keep track of yourself? And does the "point of view leaving the range of my body" relate to the OOBE, or should I toss it under mental projection?
I'm also glad to be getting the hang of this quoting system, it looked so confusing the first few times I tried it haha.
Good day to you all,
Rougeleader
-
...Maybe it will look like I am self-absorbed or the eager dog at the door. Suppose I'll probably never be the spitting image of the Buddha or the other mystics of past, but I can at least attain the superior fruit.
This is where I hope the mystics among us will find a comfortable home, where they can finely feel safe to express themselves. There is no reason why any of us have to be like any mystic in the past. We can be the buddhas of the present and future. Most of us here have already demonstrated that the superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala) is possible to attain, because we are attaining. If one of us can attain it, then we all can.
This is definitely a comfortable home, Jhananda.
You're right. It is an immense help to interact with others who have attained. I recall a sutta where the Buddha asks a man if he knows the way to a city. The man says "Yes". He says something to the effect "I've been there so many times, I could find my way there if I was blindfolded." The Buddha says "So, too, the Tathagata having found the way to Enlightenment (?) leads the way for others."
My memory isn't so good about this one, but I think you get the point I am making. Those who have found there way can help others to the same.
Jhananda, I would never have guessed you have dyslexia. It is very interesting to me that almost every mystic I've met has been diagnosed with some kind of mental or cognitive "disorder". Yet these people are among the brightest and wisest I've ever known of.
It took computerized spell checkers, + google, + heavy self-editing to finally get to the point of being able to write so that others can read it.
Yes, I agree, it seems to be a characteristic of the mystic that we are too often misdiagnosed. It will take a community of mystics to force the culture to accept our differences.
Well, that is impressive, Jhananda. I don't know if you need to hear this, but having gone through a lot of trouble with my "diagnosis", it is touching when someone confirms I have overcome it. I, too, hope to leave the classification of ADHD in the dust. I don't have any trouble paying attention anymore, especially to things that matter, but I am also eager to cultivate this panoramic view of all the senses that we've been talking about.
It's interesting you mention this. I distinctly recall a few instances before the more powerful mystical experiences happened, where this high definition vision happened. For me, everything was clearer and sharper, more detail, but what I remember most was it was as if I was simultaneously processing MUCH more. Everything, including the periphery, seemed crystal clear, and I was aware of it all at once. It was as if the tiny speck of focus we usually have was widened to encompass all of the visual field. It was a profound feeling. The one I remember best is while driving. I do not recall if this also included other senses.
Jhananda, was I just mis-interpreting or imagining things? Or is this is indeed possible? If so, is it possible to always have everything in the visual field focused and processed? Is this how you avoided the accident you posted somewhere else, the one where you had a van-load of people that were shocked you avoided it? I also believe I recall you saying on the GWV site that you encompass all your senses simultaneously within one awareness. I also noticed in your videos that you appear to be able to do many things at once while carrying on deep conversations.
Good memory, correct, we can walk and drive through life with this type of "high-definition" or "panoramic view" by keeping our mind in the present, and still, and upon the charisms, we can even avoid accidents, as you recalled correctly, by seeing all of the obstacles in our way at once, and reacting in precisely how we need to, without engaging the mind, or emotions in that reaction. By no coincidence, this is also how the martial artist works.
And perhaps by no coincidences, Rogueleader is able to confirm this about the martial arts (although I didn't doubt it.) This is very captivating news about the panoramic view. I feel even more motivated.
If I understand your writings about encompassing your six senses within awareness correctly, and from experience I know similar things happen during meditation (and awareness encompassing vast reaches in the immaterial domains), and that by its nature I think awareness is unbounded, then by that reasoning it seems possible to do this with vision during daily life? Does this is all connect the way it seems? Wait!.....
In other words, is it possible, during daily life, to be consistently, simultaneously and continuously aware of everything that hits the senses? Not just jumping from one sense-impact to the other, but everything AT ONCE?
Yes, awareness, is unbound, and non-local. It happens to reside in this body temporarily, but it can move to other location at will. This is how I move through life, so there is no reason why all of you could not do so.
Excellent.
I don't know why this is so captivating to contemplate, but I think I am starting to understand something revelatory about "ADHD". I can't put it into words yet, but it is deeply relieving and touching to think about it. I don't know why or what, but there just seems to be something here that explains a lot.
Both of you have expressed panoramic view, but, psychiatry would medicate you if you told them about it. So, I can see how you would find it very useful that others have what you have.
Even if I am just drunk on impossibilities, I have to say it again; I am so grateful for this forum, the GWV and Jhananda. Never in this life have I felt as good as I have since finding my way here.
Well, I hope you all have found a home, where you are free to express yourself with people who are much like you.
I certainly have. Thank you again.
-
Thank you, and duly noted. I've been attempting to censor myself in one way or another for so long, it is often difficult to remember that I don't have to do that here. I'm so used to people looking at me like there is something wrong with me (the same way, Rogueleader, you were talking about people saying you "Don't care enough"--which incidentally, has also happened to me throughout life). Huh--I never consciously acknowledged that bit about censoring myself until just now. The truth of the matter is that I externally process very well, and if that means full enlightenment sooner, then maybe I will just say what I have to say on here from now on. Maybe it will look like I am self-absorbed or the eager dog at the door. Suppose I'll probably never be the spitting image of the Buddha or the other mystics of past, but I can at least attain the superior fruit.
That censorship is what I at least try to encourage others to break free from around me. I felt as though it brought up many more unneeded issues in my relationships than was expected, or the relationship never went below surface level. I'm not at all perfect in being open (but I work on it when the situation allows, such as on this forum), but I have found my life and relationships much more enjoyable and touching when we decide not to hide ourselves so much or judge so heavily. I'm glad you are deciding to say what you have to say because it will bring comfort for others to say what they need to without harsh judgement. There of course some things that do much more harm than good and should be avoided, but I think most of us aren't out to intentionally harm anyone here, so I have much less fear about speaking about these things openly even though I never really have before.
I fully agree with everything you have said here.
I, too, have found a primary barrier in relationships is that I have to encourage the other person to let down their barriers, and know that I never intend to hurt them. Sometimes I have to make entire evenings out of this effort, like finding a way for their fears and ego to subside as we appreciate the smell of grape wine vines as we lay on the top of a vehicle and watch the stars. This it the kind of thing I have to do, and then encourage them to let their barriers down. And, indeed, looking back on all my intentions when a person is hurt recently, I never intended any harm in any way. Which, I must say is quite nice on the conscience :)
It's interesting you mention this. I distinctly recall a few instances before the more powerful mystical experiences happened, where this high definition vision happened. For me, everything was clearer and sharper, more detail, but what I remember most was it was as if I was simultaneously processing MUCH more. Everything, including the periphery, seemed crystal clear, and I was aware of it all at once. It was as if the tiny speck of focus we usually have was widened to encompass all of the visual field. It was a profound feeling. The one I remember best is while driving. I do not recall if this also included other senses.
Jhananda, was I just mis-interpreting or imagining things? Or is this is indeed possible? If so, is it possible to always have everything in the visual field focused and processed? Is this how you avoided the accident you posted somewhere else, the one where you had a van-load of people that were shocked you avoided it? I also believe I recall you saying on the GWV site that you encompass all your senses simultaneously within one awareness. I also noticed in your videos that you appear to be able to do many things at once while carrying on deep conversations.
Good memory, correct, we can walk and drive through life with this type of "high-definition" or "panoramic view" by keeping our mind in the present, and still, and upon the charisms, we can even avoid accidents, as you recalled correctly, by seeing all of the obstacles in our way at once, and reacting in precisely how we need to, without engaging the mind, or emotions in that reaction. By no coincidence, this is also how the martial artist works.
I will definitely try utilizing this when these types of things begin to happen:"keeping our mind in the present, and still, and upon the charisms"
I have full confidence that this is how it is done. Looking back on my meditations of recent, it all lines up. I must say that I am also eager to experience the full symphony of ear, nose, taste, sight, kundalini and tactile charisms as they build and evolve in harmony. Right now I only rarely experience auditory, visual, and tactile at the same time. But it is indeed like listening to the most blissful symphony, which furthers the central themes of music concept in the Buddha's teachings.
Additionally, music is how I first began to get in touch with charisms like kundalini and tactile. I remember the first times it began happening after I had a few mystical experiences. I could put myself in this "place" mentally, where it felt like the music was living through me. Blissful energy would blast down my spine at the peaks of the music, and shockwaves would radiate out to all of my body, standing every hair on its end. I even snapped some pictures of this which I still have. Anyway, this was when I started really lining up with what meditation could offer. It's actually happening right now.
When I meditate often and regularly in jhana, lately, when I listen to the right music (like that which I shared on a recent post) is even more blissful and easy to access that state. And to think that my senses will only intensify in sensitivity, probably much like that of when an individual is on LSD, really makes me pleased. The gifts of this path are truly wonderful and satisfying. And perhaps there is a common origin to why we must be present to receive these presents :)
I find it amazing to hear you two talk about this being related to meditative absorption. I used to tell my friends that after about my 3rd year of training in martial arts, I began to get a full view of my opponent during a match. This made it very easy to watch them shift their weight for an attack, or see how they distributed themselves in real-time. At the same time I was also finding it easier to move and attack spontaneously when I let my mind go and moved and flowed with the fight(I know this sounds like a cliche, which I'm sure is why no one listened to me, but I was amazed to find it actually worked), instead of moving within a set number of movements that had been practiced repetitively. This made my last year of fighting like I was learning to dance, instead of being so head forward and brutal.
Wow, Rogueleader. It is fascinating to me that so many things are "lining up" (for lack of a better term) on this thread. Perhaps as similar as the phenomena which arise when all the planets line up.
This makes it seem possible that I was experiencing some portion of jhana during training and matches. I was practicing 2-4 hours about 3-5 days a week for about 4 years. This is also the reason I have a lot of body tensions because I surely didn't listen to my body sensitively during that time, besides when it was injured.
When it began to intensify earlier this year on a more consistent basis, I thought I had done something terribly wrong with my practice. I was afraid I had tried too hard, which is still at least partially true. If we use the metaphor, I could say in my desperation to learn to swim, I walked out into the river until I started to feel my feet slip from beneath me from the current. Now I know to take it easier and have some patience, which should have been common sense in the first place. Without any guidance in sight, I did become desperate though. I'm glad I made it here.
I am glad you made it here, too. It does seem reasonable to think you were in 1st jhana or at least saturated during your practice. Especially considering what I just said about my experiences with music. In many ways, music was the entry point to the actualization of jhana and the path to enlightenment. If I could feel that good, and life seemed so deep and interesting just while listening to music, I figured there MUST be something to this. Some underlying mechanics or phenomena. And what do you know, it seems there is.
Yes, awareness, is unbound, and non-local. It happens to reside in this body temporarily, but it can move to other location at will. This is how I move through life, so there is no reason why all of you could not do so.
I feel as if I've had a few glimpses of this, at least to the point of seeing my point of view leave the range of my body a few times. These were mostly traumatic for me sadly, because I had absolutely no control where I ended up, which made me feel like I could easily lose track of my body.
Is it possible for that to happen? How do you keep track of yourself? And does the "point of view leaving the range of my body" relate to the OOBE, or should I toss it under mental projection?
I believe I have read elsewhere on here, perhaps by Jhananda, that it is not possible to lose your way back to the body. Within a single mind-moment you can be back in your body. But I'll leave it up to him for a more solid answer.
I'm also glad to be getting the hang of this quoting system, it looked so confusing the first few times I tried it haha.
Likewise. It gets easier.
-
I will definitely try utilizing this when these types of things begin to happen:"keeping our mind in the present, and still, and upon the charisms"
I find it amazing to hear you two talk about this being related to meditative absorption. I used to tell my friends that after about my 3rd year of training in martial arts, I began to get a full view of my opponent during a match. This made it very easy to watch them shift their weight for an attack, or see how they distributed themselves in real-time. At the same time I was also finding it easier to move and attack spontaneously when I let my mind go and moved and flowed with the fight(I know this sounds like a cliche, which I'm sure is why no one listened to me, but I was amazed to find it actually worked), instead of moving within a set number of movements that had been practiced repetitively. This made my last year of fighting like I was learning to dance, instead of being so head forward and brutal.
This makes it seem possible that I was experiencing some portion of jhana during training and matches. I was practicing 2-4 hours about 3-5 days a week for about 4 years. This is also the reason I have a lot of body tensions because I surely didn't listen to my body sensitively during that time, besides when it was injured.
It should not come as a surprise that I too studied martial arts for a number of years, so this is why I can connect the contemplative life with the kind of mental and physical discipline of martial arts.
Is it possible for that to happen? How do you keep track of yourself? And does the "point of view leaving the range of my body" relate to the OOBE, or should I toss it under mental projection?
While I understand the fear, and its origin, I know from experience that it is impossible to lose track of your body when in an OOBE. Just decide to come back, and bamm you are there.
This is definitely a comfortable home, Jhananda.
You're right. It is an immense help to interact with others who have attained. I recall a sutta where the Buddha asks a man if he knows the way to a city. The man says "Yes". He says something to the effect "I've been there so many times, I could find my way there if I was blindfolded." The Buddha says "So, too, the Tathagata having found the way to Enlightenment (?) leads the way for others."
My memory isn't so good about this one, but I think you get the point I am making. Those who have found there way can help others to the same.
I am glad you find this forum comfortable, and I appreciate your posting, because forums need participants.
I get what you are saying. Thanks for the nice quote. We could almost convert it to instruction for returning to the body.
And perhaps by no coincidences, Rogueleader is able to confirm this about the martial arts (although I didn't doubt it.) This is very captivating news about the panoramic view. I feel even more motivated.
It is just par for the course. Part of the superior fruit (maha-phala) of the contemplative life.
-
Hola hola,
Over the past 2 weeks when I sit to meditate, I sometimes find after about 45 mins or so that I start blacking out after the sensations intensify. I catch my head just as it is falling forward and it brings me back before I fall over. I was thinking I was just tired, but it keeps happening and it doesn't seem to matter whether I am fatigued before meditation or not. This sometimes happens during lying down meditation as well, but should I push to stay alert or is it fine for this to happen?
-
In most cases when people get tired during meditation, or start to blackout, they are just falling asleep. However, it sounds to me, rougeleader115, that at these times you are entering the immaterial domains, which is difficult to do if you are sitting up in meditation. At that time I would suggest that you lie down in meditation and go out of body. On the other hand, if you meditate mostly lying down, then it might be the time to sit up and meditate, or stand or walk in meditation.
-
Okay thank you for the suggestions, I hope I am not just falling asleep. I will continue to experiment with the basic meditation postures. I have not really ventured into standing or walking meditation since I have only recently began sitting upright more often. I saw a video from you a while back for walking meditation, so I will watch it again to refresh myself.
-
Hola hola,
Over the past 2 weeks when I sit to meditate, I sometimes find after about 45 mins or so that I start blacking out after the sensations intensify. I catch my head just as it is falling forward and it brings me back before I fall over. I was thinking I was just tired, but it keeps happening and it doesn't seem to matter whether I am fatigued before meditation or not. This sometimes happens during lying down meditation as well, but should I push to stay alert or is it fine for this to happen?
From how you describe it, this is also happening to me. I think it might be leaving the body, but our awareness is not intense enough to recall anything much other than "blacking out". But I am unsure.
-
From how you describe it, this is also happening to me. I think it might be leaving the body, but our awareness is not intense enough to recall anything much other than "blacking out". But I am unsure.
I am unsure as well, but your explanation sounds reasonable to me. It has helped me to stay alert if I switch to open eye meditation for a few minutes when I feel myself slipping. After one or two times, I just close my eyes and either bathe in sensations the rest of the time, or blackout/sleep. Maybe after some time I will either be alert enough not to fall asleep, or the blacking out might be replaced with lucid dreaming or an OOBE.
-
Hi Jhanon,
It has been some time since I have seen a post from you. But I wanted to let you know that I came across a quote on the Jhana Support Group from Jhanananda in response to Kimo that supports your last reply:
"The blackout that you are experiencing is you entering the void, but
you are losing consciousness at that time. I can only say that with
more meditation practice you will eventually remain conscious through
the void. At that point you will be able to OOB consciously."
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Jhanas/conversations/topics/15212 Dec.23.2008
-
Hi Jhanon,
It has been some time since I have seen a post from you. But I wanted to let you know that I came across a quote on the Jhana Support Group from Jhanananda in response to Kimo that supports your last reply:
"The blackout that you are experiencing is you entering the void, but
you are losing consciousness at that time. I can only say that with
more meditation practice you will eventually remain conscious through
the void. At that point you will be able to OOB consciously."
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Jhanas/conversations/topics/15212 Dec.23.2008
Hi Rougeleader,
I have been constantly busy taking care of my newborn. I barely find time to meditate. Sometimes I drink coffee just before bed so that I can meditate while everyone else sleeps. Lol. This is why I've not interacted as much lately. I will however be available and active until Friday.
I'm glad you found some contextual evidence to make sense of our experiences. I am still learning how to access the old forum archives. Perhaps I will try your eye-opening method next time.
-
I have been constantly busy taking care of my newborn. I barely find time to meditate. Sometimes I drink coffee just before bed so that I can meditate while everyone else sleeps. Lol. This is why I've not interacted as much lately. I will however be available and active until Friday.
I am amazed to know you have a newborn (though not exactly certain why). I am sorry to hear that that interferes with your time to meditate, but hopefully with the beginning of your mendicant life, you will find much time to make up for it. I am sorry not to have dialoged much on your plans to leave, but I am not very knowledgeable on what would even be helpful. But I want you to know I wish the very best for you. I am hoping Friday is not the last time we will hear from you.
Annnd, this morning I came across this video again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5s5FNK6jX0
I wasn't looking for more support on what you said, but I heard Jhanananda bring it up at the end of this video while talking with Karen, and I thought it might be worth noting. Where he was talking about the "blackness" or "flash of black" being the 5th Samahdi.
-
I am also amazed to know I have a newborn---LOL. Trust me, I never intended it. My childhood was so traumatic, and my whole life so difficult, that I long ago lost count of how many times I told myself I would never have children. And yet I did.
How it happened was a perfect storm, but I won't get into that too much. I've spoke about it elsewhere, I think. But this is my reason, in other posts today, for urging the beginner to avoid long-lasting responsibility as much as possible. I love my child, and my partner, but I am weary of life. I long for the release of enlightenment.
And in my experience, worldly desires like romantic relationships and child-bearing are merely shadows of the ecstasy, bliss, and satisfaction of union with God/Emptiness/whatever you want to call it. Ideally, I will pull off a Rumi or Jhananda (Rumi was married, and Jhananda raised children.)
I feel strongly that you will not cease to hear from me. This community uplifts, supports, understands, and is a safe haven for me. I gain strength from you all, and that is precious to me.
That video reminded me of many excellent points, and made sense of my most recent deep experience. Thank you, Rougeleader. But what they discuss at the end is not exactly what I experience. I think I detailed it wrong. What usually happens is like a sudden loss of consciousness. I'll be in 2nd or 3rd jhana, and then suddenly I'm realizing I've been meditating. I check the time, and often as much as 30 or 45 minutes has gone by. This even happens in the middle of the day when I'm totally awake, so I struggle to see how it could be sleep. I don't know--it's like a seeming lapse in experience continuity.
And thank you for your well wishes.
-
I am also amazed to know I have a newborn---LOL. Trust me, I never intended it. My childhood was so traumatic, and my whole life so difficult, that I long ago lost count of how many times I told myself I would never have children. And yet I did.
How it happened was a perfect storm, but I won't get into that too much. I've spoke about it elsewhere, I think. But this is my reason, in other posts today, for urging the beginner to avoid long-lasting responsibility as much as possible. I love my child, and my partner, but I am weary of life. I long for the release of enlightenment.
This matches with how I have felt so far. I have a long time partner who wishes to have children one day( but thankfully not at all right now). I have let it be known that I am not certain I wish to take on such a task for many reasons besides just the material responsibilities. I won't get into more because I am finding it hard to explain my feelings through typing this morning.
And in my experience, worldly desires like romantic relationships and child-bearing are merely shadows of the ecstasy, bliss, and satisfaction of union with God/Emptiness/whatever you want to call it. Ideally, I will pull off a Rumi or Jhananda (Rumi was married, and Jhananda raised children.)
I feel strongly that you will not cease to hear from me. This community uplifts, supports, understands, and is a safe haven for me. I gain strength from you all, and that is precious to me.
That video reminded me of many excellent points, and made sense of my most recent deep experience. Thank you, Rougeleader. But what they discuss at the end is not exactly what I experience. I think I detailed it wrong. What usually happens is like a sudden loss of consciousness. I'll be in 2nd or 3rd jhana, and then suddenly I'm realizing I've been meditating. I check the time, and often as much as 30 or 45 minutes has gone by. This even happens in the middle of the day when I'm totally awake, so I struggle to see how it could be sleep. I don't know--it's like a seeming lapse in experience continuity.
And thank you for your well wishes.
What you say here again matches the way I would try to explain it. So maybe I am the one who has not detailed correctly. I find there is a definite loss of conciousness for some meditations and the time I am gone varies greatly. Its just me being aware of the charismatic sensations swelling over my bodily sensations and then boom, it is like I am waking up from a surgery or deep sleep without the heavy medicatied/groggy feeling. I find it doesn't always matter if I am tired or not, I may feel alert and rested and still find a lapse in my awareness for a non-specific amount of time. I've had it happen for seconds, minutes, and halfhour times like you describe, but nothing over 1 1/2 hours. Sometimes I lucid dream, but mostly it is nothing. So without an exact understanding of what is happen, I continue on and try to keep a still mind and to stay alert and aware of the charisms as long as I can, just in case it's nothing but sleep.
On a side note to all of this, I began journaling my dreams on my mobile device whenever I wake up almost two weeks ago now. This has been coupled with at least a night and morning meditation. I still have no idea I am dreaming in a dream, but I am mostly aware of my own thoughts and actions in the dream as if it were my daily life. It feels funny experiencing this because it feels like I don't really sleep, its like I go from my regular day life, then have a couple hours of weird and sometimes unpleasant dreams (haven't experienced anything necessarily pleasurable yet), and then I am back here to the daily life again. I wonder if I am jumping the gun by lucid dreaming before I have mastered the material jhanas? I didn't expect to find progress this quickly, but I have seen else where that one may have no attainment but still be able to lucid dream, so should I put the brakes on or just go for it?
-
I am also amazed to know I have a newborn---LOL. Trust me, I never intended it. My childhood was so traumatic, and my whole life so difficult, that I long ago lost count of how many times I told myself I would never have children. And yet I did.
How it happened was a perfect storm, but I won't get into that too much. I've spoke about it elsewhere, I think. But this is my reason, in other posts today, for urging the beginner to avoid long-lasting responsibility as much as possible. I love my child, and my partner, but I am weary of life. I long for the release of enlightenment.
This matches with how I have felt so far. I have a long time partner who wishes to have children one day( but thankfully not at all right now). I have let it be known that I am not certain I wish to take on such a task for many reasons besides just the material responsibilities. I won't get into more because I am finding it hard to explain my feelings through typing this morning.
Well, that was basically where my partner and I stood as well. Be careful (unless your partnership is same sex--hey, I don't assume one way or the other). Even two methods of birth control used together aren't 100 percent. That's all I'll say.
And in my experience, worldly desires like romantic relationships and child-bearing are merely shadows of the ecstasy, bliss, and satisfaction of union with God/Emptiness/whatever you want to call it. Ideally, I will pull off a Rumi or Jhananda (Rumi was married, and Jhananda raised children.)
I feel strongly that you will not cease to hear from me. This community uplifts, supports, understands, and is a safe haven for me. I gain strength from you all, and that is precious to me.
That video reminded me of many excellent points, and made sense of my most recent deep experience. Thank you, Rougeleader. But what they discuss at the end is not exactly what I experience. I think I detailed it wrong. What usually happens is like a sudden loss of consciousness. I'll be in 2nd or 3rd jhana, and then suddenly I'm realizing I've been meditating. I check the time, and often as much as 30 or 45 minutes has gone by. This even happens in the middle of the day when I'm totally awake, so I struggle to see how it could be sleep. I don't know--it's like a seeming lapse in experience continuity.
And thank you for your well wishes.
What you say here again matches the way I would try to explain it. So maybe I am the one who has not detailed correctly. I find there is a definite loss of conciousness for some meditations and the time I am gone varies greatly. Its just me being aware of the charismatic sensations swelling over my bodily sensations and then boom, it is like I am waking up from a surgery or deep sleep without the heavy medicatied/groggy feeling. I find it doesn't always matter if I am tired or not, I may feel alert and rested and still find a lapse in my awareness for a non-specific amount of time. I've had it happen for seconds, minutes, and halfhour times like you describe, but nothing over 1 1/2 hours. Sometimes I lucid dream, but mostly it is nothing. So without an exact understanding of what is happen, I continue on and try to keep a still mind and to stay alert and aware of the charisms as long as I can, just in case it's nothing but sleep.
On a side note to all of this, I began journaling my dreams on my mobile device whenever I wake up almost two weeks ago now. This has been coupled with at least a night and morning meditation. I still have no idea I am dreaming in a dream, but I am mostly aware of my own thoughts and actions in the dream as if it were my daily life. It feels funny experiencing this because it feels like I don't really sleep, its like I go from my regular day life, then have a couple hours of weird and sometimes unpleasant dreams (haven't experienced anything necessarily pleasurable yet), and then I am back here to the daily life again. I wonder if I am jumping the gun by lucid dreaming before I have mastered the material jhanas? I didn't expect to find progress this quickly, but I have seen else where that one may have no attainment but still be able to lucid dream, so should I put the brakes on or just go for it?
Exactly the same for me, in regards to your comment about the apparent consciousness loss.
Yeah, the continuity that increased awareness during dreaming can bring is a little strange at first. Jhananda has talked at length about the impact of increased awareness and OOBE during sleep. There are benefits like improved equanimity and dispassion.
I can't journal like that anymore, because I wake up to my child and have like 20 things to do right away, so I don't experience much OOBE/Lucid Dreaming. Maybe you'll thank me later for mentioning things like that ^_^
Lucid dreaming progress happens really fast, in my experience. It's really up to you if you want to dive in or not. But eventually on this path you will begin OOBE/lucid dreaming when you sleep, anyway. That's just what happens when you begin to increase your awareness.
Other than the above mentioned obstacles to journaling and working on lucid dreaming, I also began to experience terrifying dreams. At least one of them was re-living a past death. But I also had some tremendously magical and pleasurable ones--like flying through a fantasy world where almost all my fantasies were being fulfilled--or having "intimate" encounters with angels.
The cons are only short-term, and the pro's are long-term--REALLY long term. As far as I understand and have reasoned, there is an obvious big pro that you will be moving closer and faster toward enlightenment. And that you'll have to experience all these things at some point or another on the path of enlightenment anyway.
-
I apologize ahead of time for any errors in this post. I am limited to a mobile device right now and I am sure I will miss something.
I just wanted to update and once again ask for guidance. I have found my dreams progressively becoming more lucid to the point it is like living a day of life. though these do not at all resemble what I would expect a past lifetime experience to be like, they are still very engaging. I have found that what feels like 2 days can pass in my dreams, while only a few hours pass in real life. Also the amount/accuracy of experience and content that occur in the dreams really leave me confused when I wake up. these are the first few dreams of my life that I would live a day, go to sleep, and then wake up and live another day all in the span of a few hours.
I wake up every few hours and sometimes it is also very difficult to sleep unless I meditate to sleep because of the energy I feel throughout my body. I worry I am creating a problem by meditating these extra hours in the night, since I already do right before bed and when I wake up in the morning. Any recommendations for sleep?
Lastly, there has been awareness of a tremendously deep emotional pain inside of me for what feels like months now that I don't know how to release. At random times I want to cry and ball, but I do not entirely, tears may roll but I never feel like I am in a place to just let it all go. It is the same with a deep rage I feel inside as well. the charisms help me feel I am doing something right because the ringing in my ears has gotten progressively louder, though not uncomfortable, as well as the depth of energy I feel during my meditations and daily life have increased. what am I to do with these strong mostly unprovoked emotions? will allowing them to express fully help me or hurt me?
-
I apologize ahead of time for any errors in this post. I am limited to a mobile device right now and I am sure I will miss something.
I just wanted to update and once again ask for guidance. I have found my dreams progressively becoming more lucid to the point it is like living a day of life. though these do not at all resemble what I would expect a past lifetime experience to be like, they are still very engaging. I have found that what feels like 2 days can pass in my dreams, while only a few hours pass in real life. Also the amount/accuracy of experience and content that occur in the dreams really leave me confused when I wake up. these are the first few dreams of my life that I would live a day, go to sleep, and then wake up and live another day all in the span of a few hours.
Gaining lucidity in the sleep state is a characteristic of intensified meditation practice, which transforms one into a mystic. When the level of lucidity of the sleep state gets to be equal to the lucidity of the waking state we can call that the deathless state (amatta) that Siddhartha Gautama reported. It is called 'eternal life' in Christianity.
I wake up every few hours and sometimes it is also very difficult to sleep unless I meditate to sleep because of the energy I feel throughout my body. I worry I am creating a problem by meditating these extra hours in the night, since I already do right before bed and when I wake up in the morning. Any recommendations for sleep?
This is why becoming a mystic is a full-time occupation, because we tend to rest in short snatches, and need to rest when we feel like it, not when it is socially acceptable, or fits our work schedule.
Lastly, there has been awareness of a tremendously deep emotional pain inside of me for what feels like months now that I don't know how to release. At random times I want to cry and ball, but I do not entirely, tears may roll but I never feel like I am in a place to just let it all go. It is the same with a deep rage I feel inside as well. the charisms help me feel I am doing something right because the ringing in my ears has gotten progressively louder, though not uncomfortable, as well as the depth of energy I feel during my meditations and daily life have increased.
I too found strong mostly unprovoked emotions arising when I deepened my meditation practice. I am certain that most of these strong emotions are rising up from the depths of our subconscious because of the depth of our meditation practice. Also, these deep emotions are often times the product of a mystic who lives in a world that completely rejects its mystics.
what am I to do with these strong mostly unprovoked emotions? will allowing them to express fully help me or hurt me?
I took them as spontaneous expressions, like a kriya. In that case I just step back and let it happen. It does create some confusion for the non-mystics in one's life, so it can help to retreat into the wilderness, where one can roar (cry) like a lion, as John the Baptist did.
-
Gaining lucidity in the sleep state is a characteristic of intensified meditation practice, which transforms one into a mystic. When the level of lucidity of the sleep state gets to be equal to the lucidity of the waking state we can call that the deathless state (amatta) that Siddhartha Gautama reported. It is called 'eternal life' in Christianity.
This is again one of the most encouraging things for me to read. I know there is much much more to explore and I am only cracking the door, but I am still enthused by this progress and your words.
Sadly all of my dreams for the past week or so have been rather disturbing. I awoke yelling this morning, from having been yelling at someone who was trying to harm me in my dream. In the second dream, I was being attacked/robbed by some men with guns. The day before, I dreamed coyotes came for my partner and I as we wandered into our surrounding woods. And the last one I can quickly recall from earlier this week involved me going to jail for two days. Went to jail and was booked, but no mugshot or fingerprint. Had to stay in there with my brother for those two days and was extremely embarrassed and worried about our safety incessantly.
The main reason for me saying that , especially when I first wake up, has to do with the trauma and emotions that follow me very seamlessly from the dreams. Even though I realize I am back, like this morning, I was so infuriated at being attacked that I was shaking and unable to calm down for a good while. I'm sure it is normal to feel this way after an unpleasant dream, but I just felt the need to say what my experience has been lately.
This is why becoming a mystic is a full-time occupation, because we tend to rest in short snatches, and need to rest when we feel like it, not when it is socially acceptable, or fits our work schedule.
This is constantly becoming more apparant to me as I continue on. I'm glad to finding these things out with your guidance, instead of fighting to figure out every single step.
I too found strong mostly unprovoked emotions arising when I deepened my meditation practice. I am certain that most of these strong emotions are rising up from the depths of our subconscious because of the depth of our meditation practice. Also, these deep emotions are often times the product of a mystic who lives in a world that completely rejects its mystics.
These are very reasonable explainations for me as to why I would be experiencing these emotions.
I took them as spontaneous expressions, like a kriya. In that case I just step back and let it happen. It does create some confusion for the non-mystics in one's life, so it can help to retreat into the wilderness, where one can roar (cry) like a lion, as John the Baptist did.
This also sounds like an incredibly good way to get this out of me. I had been feeling such an urge to do so, but I wanted to make sure it would be a good way to deal with it. I got a good laugh from your use of "roar(cry) like a lion". I really mean it Jeffrey, thank you.
-
This is again one of the most encouraging things for me to read. I know there is much much more to explore and I am only cracking the door, but I am still enthused by this progress and your words...I'm glad to finding these things out with your guidance, instead of fighting to figure out every single step...These are very reasonable explainations for me as to why I would be experiencing these emotions.
A good teacher encourages, a mediocre teacher does not know, a poor teacher misdirects. We know a tree by its fruit.
Sadly all of my dreams for the past week or so have been rather disturbing. I awoke yelling this morning, from having been yelling at someone who was trying to harm me in my dream. In the second dream, I was being attacked/robbed by some men with guns. The day before, I dreamed coyotes came for my partner and I as we wandered into our surrounding woods. And the last one I can quickly recall from earlier this week involved me going to jail for two days. Went to jail and was booked, but no mugshot or fingerprint. Had to stay in there with my brother for those two days and was extremely embarrassed and worried about our safety incessantly.
The main reason for me saying that , especially when I first wake up, has to do with the trauma and emotions that follow me very seamlessly from the dreams. Even though I realize I am back, like this morning, I was so infuriated at being attacked that I was shaking and unable to calm down for a good while. I'm sure it is normal to feel this way after an unpleasant dream, but I just felt the need to say what my experience has been lately.
The lower astral is full of drama. If you just rise to a higher level, then you will find untold bliss.
This also sounds like an incredibly good way to get this out of me. I had been feeling such an urge to do so, but I wanted to make sure it would be a good way to deal with it. I got a good laugh from your use of "roar(cry) like a lion". I really mean it Jeffrey, thank you.
Most mystics find what they are looking for in the solitude of the wilderness. The urge for that solitude, becomes paramount.
Yes, the bible is translated as John was a 'cry in the wilderness;' however, I am quite sure it was a roar.
-
Wow, Rougeleader. You've been a busy body since I was away. Such tremendous progress! I heartily congratulate you :) I am personally familiar with the experiences you're describing, although your comment about feeling as though you live one complete day and then wake up and live another, is a claim that I cannot make.
I am making my way back to you lovely folks here. Life has been busy, but it's begun to make sense and now all is coming together.
-
I look forward to reading more from: Jhanon, Rougeleader, Alexander, and others here.
-
Hello Jhanon! I was worried since I have not seen a post from you in a few months. I thank you for the congratulation, and I would love to see an update on your experiences or your situation for that matter if that is at all possible. As for the dreams, though they have been becoming more lucid, I still have not had the awareness to realize I am in a dream. But I assume that will come with more time or if I increase my meditation practice, I'm still working on building my courage to take the dive. It feels like constant discoveries so far, and most of them have been far beyond what I thought we could explore.
-
Hello Jhanon! I was worried since I have not seen a post from you in a few months. I thank you for the congratulation, and I would love to see an update on your experiences or your situation for that matter if that is at all possible. As for the dreams, though they have been becoming more lucid, I still have not had the awareness to realize I am in a dream. But I assume that will come with more time or if I increase my meditation practice, I'm still working on building my courage to take the dive. It feels like constant discoveries so far, and most of them have been far beyond what I thought we could explore.
Far beyond what you thought we could explore? My, my! That does sound exciting. I have made a few posts which I have deemed highest priority or were easily done. Anything more than that I'm afraid won't be so interesting. However, it will be good for to me note that since giving medication a shot for the first time in a decade, I am feeling much stronger and empowered. It's been a beautiful experience, despite the life circumstance. Perhaps I will update more thoroughly tonight, if I can convince myself that I'll be up too late. I'm trying to get back into a "rise and set with the sun" sleep schedule, but it seems life is against me on that.
I am very sorry for not being around. I assure it has been for good reason.
-
Far beyond what you thought we could explore? My, my! That does sound exciting.
Yes I am coming from not believing in chakras, stigmata, and many other religious things. To find out that I can feel the chakras like physical entities inside of me, feeling an aura around my whole body, having extremely lucid dreams, and knowing to that this is still the beginning. It has brought such a refreshing side to my life that I feel like dropping to my knees in tears. After hating so much of the things I have had to do in this lifetime, this is one thing that I have felt that I so badly want to keep close to my heart. The charisms have been strong (for me) but yet subtle at the same time. The charisms have felt more like the sacred to me lately, it is a place that when I am so hurt and confused, I can give myself up to the bliss and it feels like an angel picking me up to embrace me and allow me to let my pain go. I am still working to adjust my worldly life so that it is not so stressful, so that I may more fully enjoy these charisms that have been a blessing in disguise for me. I spent nearly a year so afraid of the bliss, but it is finally starting to feel better.
Just wanting to say that I have not been having such stressful dreams lately. I even saw some friends that I have not seen in years last night, and held hands with two of them letting them know how much I loved them for being good to me while I knew them. Made me wake up wanting to cry, but in a good way. I had not let myself ever tell them how I felt in real life, so it felt relieving to even though I never had intention of doing so. I understand that it might not have even been real, but the feelings I felt were.
-
Glad you are feeling better.
-
Far beyond what you thought we could explore? My, my! That does sound exciting.
Yes I am coming from not believing in chakras, stigmata, and many other religious things. To find out that I can feel the chakras like physical entities inside of me, feeling an aura around my whole body, having extremely lucid dreams, and knowing to that this is still the beginning. It has brought such a refreshing side to my life that I feel like dropping to my knees in tears. After hating so much of the things I have had to do in this lifetime, this is one thing that I have felt that I so badly want to keep close to my heart. The charisms have been strong (for me) but yet subtle at the same time. The charisms have felt more like the sacred to me lately, it is a place that when I am so hurt and confused, I can give myself up to the bliss and it feels like an angel picking me up to embrace me and allow me to let my pain go. I am still working to adjust my worldly life so that it is not so stressful, so that I may more fully enjoy these charisms that have been a blessing in disguise for me. I spent nearly a year so afraid of the bliss, but it is finally starting to feel better.
Just wanting to say that I have not been having such stressful dreams lately. I even saw some friends that I have not seen in years last night, and held hands with two of them letting them know how much I loved them for being good to me while I knew them. Made me wake up wanting to cry, but in a good way. I had not let myself ever tell them how I felt in real life, so it felt relieving to even though I never had intention of doing so. I understand that it might not have even been real, but the feelings I felt were.
Well, you don't have to believe in any of it now. I've found it much more beneficial to rely on our experience, critical thinking, and direct knowing (insight).
Cal, a new member I mentioned in other posts, is in a similar position to where you were a year ago. It would be most appreciated, and probably make you feel good, if you were to lend your new perspective to his thread here:
http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,768.0.html (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,768.0.html)
I'm glad to hear about your dreams. I've had similar ones which I posted recently. The release it gives feels so good. There is one friend in particular, who died when I was young, who I would love to "see" again. Ever since she died, I've yearned to embrace her just once more, and let her know how I felt and feel. Based on my recent experiences in jhana, it appears that this is doable.
So far, I've yet to experience anything in 3rd and 4th jhana which suggests we cannot manifest whatever we like with such a strong mind. By that, I mean knowledge; "Where is my friend now?" or "Is there really past lives?" and you get the answer in the form of a vision, or "knowing". How tremendous that we never talk about that specifically on here. I've never seen anyone on here say "Yeah, once you get to 4th jhana in a meditation session, you can know or experience anything you want."
-
Jhanon there is a section of Patanjali which you just made me think of. I think it is the section on Vibhutis.
Patanjali says something like, "by applying samyama to X, Y, Z... knowledge can be obtained." The X, Y, and Z are a long list of things, which he says you can gain occult knowledge about.
Keep in mind I am thinking of my Iyengar translation, which I feel translated that section right. But I have never found a 100% satisfactory translation of the Yoga Sutras. There is a lot about it I still don't understand.
-
Hello once again everyone,
I have been trying to get this message typed up for at least a month now. Life has me by the balls and is squeezing tighter by the day. I started my first job a month ago now, and it is wearing down what little sanity I have. This with the expectations of all of my relationships, family, friends, and pretty much anyone I associate with. I do not know how to manage not having a quiet home to come to, or having to work(which I easily hate as much as school). I started work to escape from my current dwelling due to excessive noise, a baby, and little space. I am mostly confined to my room or else I am battered by what feels like the craziness everyone is okay with. I have a handful of friends, and they barely understand me, as goes for my family. The bitter loneliness of my life is really making my heart ache and my mind deteriorate. I am considered crazy/odd because I am the only one at work that sometimes just needs to eat lunch alone or sit quietly. Not wanting to speak much does not help with that either. I say and do as I need to, but it seems it is never enough. I constantly wonder how this world is the way it is, how we work so hard at such a horrible wage, and are supposed to be able to live in a house, buy food, pay for a car, entertainment(or at least internet). And thats praying theres no major upset (such as medical or car problems). Whats the point in having a savings account if I must spend every penny just to sustain myself(not every penny of course, but come on!).
Dealing with people is driving me insane, and seeing that most things and people are just as fucked up and slightly worse than I figured and it does not help. I know none of this is news to you all here, but when I try to voice it to those at work or in my personal life, I get blank stares or a "you really have no right to feel that way""your too young to feel that way". BUT I DONT CARE. If I could ignore it, I surely would. But its so blatantly thrown in my face every single day that it is just impossible. Maybe with time it will get better, but it has been at least 6 years in the dumps about it all, and I just dont know how to take it. I oscillate between being able to kinda handle it all, to being suicidal and so done with it all, even though I don't want to give up my life. I guess the main reason it bothers me is just that everyone seems to do it without a care, and they expect me too as well. Some of them hear/feel me when I say these things, but majority do not. But all these things have just pushed me to a point where I can barely love myself, because I cannot meet almost any of these constant expectations like being a good son, worker, partner, friend. I feel like I love them and want to benefit people, but I at the same time dont have the capacity for it all, and so badly want to spend more time exploring what jhana has to offer.
^Sorry for the vent you guys, you all are the only ones I feel I could let loose to without being seen as a nut or angry child(which I mean I kinda am regardless haha).
Anyway, the main reason I got on hear was to say that I finally had my first OOBE/totally lucid dream. I awoke in a hotel and went down the stairs past the clerk. As I got to the entrance, the clerk called to me and tossed what looked like a name tag with a large golden needle point straight out of the back. It went high into the air almost touching the ceiling and then arched perfectly over what must have been at least 15ft and pinned itself perfectly to my shirt without piercing me. I looked right at him and thought "thats impossible, I must be dreaming" and boom, I was completely aware that it was all a dream. I looked back up to see the clerk was now a demon and very angry that I was aware of the dream. I flew out of the side of the building, right through the wall! I floated around to the entrance and looked at him again. then I stuck my arms and head through the glass doors. It was just so mind boggling to me to be able to pass through things and feel a sensation as if I were actually moving through matter as energy. Just to add, right when I noticed I was in a dream, my body felt light, energetic and blissful instead of dense like moments before and daily life. But it ended with the demon ordering the undead in the city to attack me. He also sent a kind of psychic wave of his face at me, and once it wrapped around me I could no longer fly like I was. The undead surrounded me and rip me to pieces rather quickly. Luckily my awareness switched to a 3rd person view just as they grabbed me and I did not have to experience it happening directly.
Since I wont make it to the other posts I have seen, I'll say it here with the hopes you guys will see it. Aaron, Zack, Cal, I am happy to see you guys here on the forum, I hope you find some form of relief finding a place like this to ask questions and vent haha. There is plenty to learn and gain inspiration from and I am forever grateful to have stumbled upon the works of Jhanananda. Till next time, I hope you all stay well.
-
Thanks for the welcome, Rougeleader115, and welcome back ;). Ive also had experiences with Lucid dreams. In the past, they kicked my ass. I've spent quite awhile trying to figure out the sub set of thoughts that led to demons, and other entities appearing in my dreams. Honestly, a part of me truly believes that we are of the end times, and that some of it may be a reality not too far off. I've also had to deal with those suckers in OOBE's, as well.
I feel your pain, man. The world is a place of insatiable expectation. Those of us who don't see the point to it are often outcast. I think that is why solitude suits us, its easy, simple. For me, I am more than content passing the time, with no goal in sight, studying the Dhamma, and reading the stories/experiences of other Mystics. Yet, there is a sliver of me that truly wants to help those who are lost.
Cheers, welcome back 8)
-
Hey, buddy. I'm glad you took the time to post this. You'll see why.
I have been trying to get this message typed up for at least a month now. Life has me by the balls and is squeezing tighter by the day. I started my first job a month ago now, and it is wearing down what little sanity I have.
This is also how it is for me with most jobs, and is why I am pursuing a very unusual solution and life. So far, it's coming to fruition, slowly. Which is a shock, as no past pursuits (outside of samadhi) have been fruitful or successful.
This with the expectations of all of my relationships, family, friends, and pretty much anyone I associate with. I do not know how to manage not having a quiet home to come to, or having to work(which I easily hate as much as school).
Ditto-Ha! When my companion and I first began seeing each other, we made an agreement with each other that I can never be grateful enough for. It was "no expectations." We just want to love each other, and be loved. We're fairly intelligent, and I think we knew it was the most important ingredient. A strange way to start a relationship, don't you think? And guess what--our relationship is STRONG. And I mean STRONG. Two years in and things are still getting better. Our parents are even following our example. Fancy that. And with all of my other relations I hold steadfast "no expectations." It's amazing how much forgiveness, acceptance and love can heal others.
The first 8 years of my life I hated work, too. But about two years ago I began to realize how to peacefully navigate my way through most common social environments. Since then, work has become part of the practice of the N8P, and so when I do work, I smile most of the day. The only problem I have now is co-workers that are repelled by my peaceful and equanimous nature.
I started work to escape from my current dwelling due to excessive noise, a baby, and little space. I am mostly confined to my room or else I am battered by what feels like the craziness everyone is okay with.
Headphones will become your best friend until such a day that you can live in more peaceful arrangements. I currently live in a similar situation, but I make it work. Creative solutions will go a long way toward deepening your practice and improving your daily life. Basically turning it all into practice. But, in the beginning, these are tough things to learn--in my experience.
I have a handful of friends, and they barely understand me, as goes for my family. The bitter loneliness of my life is really making my heart ache and my mind deteriorate. I am considered crazy/odd because I am the only one at work that sometimes just needs to eat lunch alone or sit quietly. Not wanting to speak much does not help with that either.
You'll find ways to mediate these obstacles in a way that is pleasing and fulfilling. A lot of it is patient endurance.
I say and do as I need to, but it seems it is never enough. I constantly wonder how this world is the way it is, how we work so hard at such a horrible wage, and are supposed to be able to live in a house, buy food, pay for a car, entertainment(or at least internet). And thats praying theres no major upset (such as medical or car problems). Whats the point in having a savings account if I must spend every penny just to sustain myself(not every penny of course, but come on!).
Learning to minimize our needs goes a long ways in this regard. For example, I only have to do laundry once every two weeks--and it's only 2 loads. And yet I don't stink or wear dirty clothes. I eat mostly fruit, nuts and seeds. This cuts down on dishes, time and food cost. There's are just some examples. The insight and abilities you develop through your practice will take care of this for you.
Dealing with people is driving me insane, and seeing that most things and people are just as fucked up and slightly worse than I figured and it does not help. I know none of this is news to you all here, but when I try to voice it to those at work or in my personal life, I get blank stares or a "you really have no right to feel that way""your too young to feel that way". BUT I DONT CARE. If I could ignore it, I surely would. But its so blatantly thrown in my face every single day that it is just impossible. Maybe with time it will get better, but it has been at least 6 years in the dumps about it all, and I just dont know how to take it. I oscillate between being able to kinda handle it all, to being suicidal and so done with it all, even though I don't want to give up my life. I guess the main reason it bothers me is just that everyone seems to do it without a care, and they expect me too as well. Some of them hear/feel me when I say these things, but majority do not. But all these things have just pushed me to a point where I can barely love myself, because I cannot meet almost any of these constant expectations like being a good son, worker, partner, friend. I feel like I love them and want to benefit people, but I at the same time dont have the capacity for it all, and so badly want to spend more time exploring what jhana has to offer.
No expectations. You have your own path, and you know the fruits it offers. People are not going to understand you for a while. But it IS possible to mediate this.
I've oscillated as you have with suicide, and had a few close calls in the past. I soon learned to utilize my suicidal thoughts as fuel for my practice. Since then, I've not had any suicidal thoughts. Almost two years now.
^Sorry for the vent you guys, you all are the only ones I feel I could let loose to without being seen as a nut or angry child(which I mean I kinda am regardless haha).
You're free to vent, of course. But we're also free to offer support. It's a double-edged sword ^_<
You're going to be okay. Channel the frustration into your practice. Everything that sucks--just let it drive you to absorb in the non-physical senses, the charisms, in that very moment. Even the smallest irritation in daily life reminds us we are not with the charisms. And so we return to them--even if we're busy at work. It can, in this way, become your refuge, whenever you need it.
Anyway, the main reason I got on hear was to say that I finally had my first OOBE/totally lucid dream. I awoke in a hotel and went down the stairs past the clerk. As I got to the entrance, the clerk called to me and tossed what looked like a name tag with a large golden needle point straight out of the back. It went high into the air almost touching the ceiling and then arched perfectly over what must have been at least 15ft and pinned itself perfectly to my shirt without piercing me. I looked right at him and thought "thats impossible, I must be dreaming" and boom, I was completely aware that it was all a dream. I looked back up to see the clerk was now a demon and very angry that I was aware of the dream. I flew out of the side of the building, right through the wall! I floated around to the entrance and looked at him again. then I stuck my arms and head through the glass doors. It was just so mind boggling to me to be able to pass through things and feel a sensation as if I were actually moving through matter as energy. Just to add, right when I noticed I was in a dream, my body felt light, energetic and blissful instead of dense like moments before and daily life. But it ended with the demon ordering the undead in the city to attack me. He also sent a kind of psychic wave of his face at me, and once it wrapped around me I could no longer fly like I was. The undead surrounded me and rip me to pieces rather quickly. Luckily my awareness switched to a 3rd person view just as they grabbed me and I did not have to experience it happening directly.
I have also had lucid dreams very similar to this. I have read somewhere on here that St. John of the Cross believed dreams were the efforts of demons to corrupt us. He wasn't referring to OOBE's, even though lucid dreams are technically OOBE's.
The distinction, in my experience, is that we enter a dream without lucidity. The dream world is created for us, and soon afterward we can gain lucidity. But with a classic OOBE, there is lucidity from the very moment of leaving the body. The former he, St. John, thought to be the work of demons (which in terms of your and my experiences, seems plausible), and the latter was of course, freedom.
-
Congratulations, rougeleader115, on the direct experience of dhukkha. I am too surprised that not more people just renounce the insanity of the world, and go forth as a mendicant.
Congratulations also, rougeleader115, in having your first OOBE. Very good. Next step is to realize that evil has not control over you in the immaterial domains, that you do not give them give. You could have just flown up into the heavenly domains when the demon attacked you, and sent the dead after you.
-
Hello everyone,
I wanted to say thank you for the advice and replies, but my life has been to messed up for me. I'm stuck freaking out right now because my significant other of 8 years slept with my best friend. I am so heart broken and I really just need some words of help. I haven't been so worked up and emotionally broken in years and I can barely sit in my own skin to type this. I don't know what else to say but I keep crying and I'm so angry. What do I do? I live with her and I have nowhere to go. How do I process these emotions, there I so much going on inside of me, I don't know where to be in myself. I know some of you have dealt with all kinds of trauma, so I am seeking advice on how to deal with myself so that I can deal with my situation. Feel so lost.
-
It hurts, and I feel your pain. But fire hurts, too. And yet, if we utilize that fire, we can cook, travel, and learn or do so many other things. In the same way, the suffering you feel right now is like fuel for a spaceship propelling you away from the suffering of human life. When I look back on my life of hardship, I see so much suffering that fueled me to find a solution.
That solution is the mystic's way. And just one experience of meditative ecstasy was more than worth the quarter century I suffered to bring me to it.
Try to see this from the bigger picture. You're looking at one wave, but the ocean is full of waves everywhere--past and future. When you see those waves of suffering everywhere, suddenly the one wave loses its significance a bit. It is then that you can look at this from a desire to transcend it--so that you never have to experience such heartbreak. The solace, the answers, are within you. As my companion always tells me "Always, in every moment, look to learn from what you're experiencing."
I wouldn't focus on the details of this occurrence right now. The more you personalize this occurrence, the more suffering it will cause. You can figure out the logistics of your living situation after you've regained a silent, strong mind. Then you will be ready to make decisions. I think you should find a quiet place to connect with the charisms, and jhana.
Or read some spiritual text, like the Buddha's discourses--and reflect on how his teachings relate to your current situation. That might be best for you at the moment--if you're unable to calm the mind. In many times of feeling lost, out of control, and suffering; reading like this has allowed to completely transcend an otherwise unbearable situation
-
Sorry, rougeleader115, to read about your suffering. Before reading your message today I had been reflecting upon the nature of physical existence being suffering, or another term that came to mind was 'struggle.' At the time I reflected upon the fact that all creatures are prey to some other creature.
Now, your girlfriend had sex with your best friend. There are 2 possible reasons for this that come to mind.
1] Your best friend must be her friend to, and if you spend a lot of time with him, then she may as well, so there is a likelihood of a high level of familiarity, which could be called 'love' between the two of them, and humans have a lot of trouble not confusing love with sex.
2] If she happens to be angry with you, then this is another common reason why girlfriends, and wives sleep with their boyfriend's/husban's best friend, because it is the way to hurt you the most.
So, I agree with Jhanon's recommendation. Suffering is inherent in material life, so use it to seek the immaterial life.
-
Hello everyone,
I wanted to say thank you for the advice and replies, but my life has been to messed up for me. I'm stuck freaking out right now because my significant other of 8 years slept with my best friend. I am so heart broken and I really just need some words of help. I haven't been so worked up and emotionally broken in years and I can barely sit in my own skin to type this. I don't know what else to say but I keep crying and I'm so angry. What do I do? I live with her and I have nowhere to go. How do I process these emotions, there I so much going on inside of me, I don't know where to be in myself. I know some of you have dealt with all kinds of trauma, so I am seeking advice on how to deal with myself so that I can deal with my situation. Feel so lost.
Forgive your partner. Forgive your best friend. Forgive both of them utterly and completely. Do everything you can to get rid of that anger. It can tear you to pieces. I would practice metta or loving-kindness towards yourself, your partner, and your best friend. The Buddha taught us that there are three unwholesome qualities that the unenlightened are afflicted with, and that is: greed, hatred and delusion. The delusion is that being angry or in a state of hatred is going to solve anything. It will only lead to further suffering. The greed or craving for the things of this world to be permanent and unchanging, which is also delusive, would be in this case your relationship with your beloved partner, is the cause of your suffering. The whole goal of the Noble Eightfold Path is to overcome greed, hatred and delusion.
I think sexual relationships are detrimental to the contemplative path. I think that the only way to relate to a woman is as a friend. If you become attracted to that person, then end the relationship immediately. This is how I practice.
I too am touched by your suffering. I hope things work out for you, Rougeleader.
-
I really agree with both Jhananda and Michel. If you're really angry, it may even seem like we are trying to indoctrinate you. But that's really not true.
Instead of getting drunk or usig drugs, and becoming destructive and in despair, all three of us have suggested that the Dhamma really is the only way. It really does work. Not on faith, but on cold, hard truth.
Whatever may happen there, you should know that you are loved here. And you cannot do anything to stop us from having love for you. We were your friends before you ever met us in this life.
Thank you for sharing with us. And thank you to Michel and Jhananda for their words of support.
You can be absolutely sure of one thing; we will not betray you--because we have committed our lives to doing no harm, and feeling loving-kindness to all beings. I feel more pain for these two who have done this to you--because they almost certainly don't have the wisdom and support you have. If they do not find the path, like you have, then they will suffer for what they've done. And yet that suffering will not lead to the end of suffering, like it will for you. But maybe, just maybe, if you handle this the way we are encouraging you to; they will find the path to liberation and wisdom as you have.
Because of all the wrongs I have forgiven, of all the ex-girlfriends who cheated on me or abandoned me; they have respect for me. They see that special something that allows me to not only forgive them, but want to help them. That is how you can prevail, and be strong, and admirable.
To pull a line from Jesus "Forgive them, for they know not what they do."
-
Hello Rougeleader,
I read what you posted on Skype recently and I thought that this might be helpful for you in order to develop forgiveness towards your partner, your friend, and even yourself.
Forgiveness Meditation - by Jack Kornfield
Forgiveness of others, forgiveness of yourself
To practice forgiveness meditation, let yourself sit comfortably, allowing your eyes to close and your breath to be natural and easy. Let your body and mind relax. Breathing gently into the area of your heart, let yourself feel all the barriers you have erected and the emotions that you have carried because you have not forgiven - not forgiven yourself, not forgiven others. Let yourself feel the pain of keeping your heart closed. Then, breathing softly, begin asking and extending forgiveness, reciting the following words, letting the images and feelings that come up grow deeper as you repeat them.
FORGIVENESS OF YOURSELF:
There are many ways that I have hurt and harmed others, have betrayed or abandoned them, cause them suffering, knowingly or unknowingly, out of my pain, fear, anger and confusion.
Let yourself remember and visualize the ways you have hurt others. See and feel the pain you have caused out of your own fear and confusion. Feel your own sorrow and regret. Sense that finally you can release this burden and ask for forgiveness. Picture each memory that still burdens your heart. And then to each person in your mind repeat:
I ask for your forgiveness, I ask for your forgiveness.
FORGIVENESS FOR YOURSELF:
There are many ways that I have hurt and harmed myself. I have betrayed or abandoned myself many times through thought, word, or deed, knowingly or unknowingly.
Feel your own precious body and life. Let yourself see the ways you have hurt or harmed yourself. Picture them, remember them. Feel the sorrow you have carried from this and sense that you can release these burdens. Extend forgiveness for each of them, one by one. Repeat to yourself:
For the ways I have hurt myself through action or inaction, out of fear, pain and confusion, I now extend a full and heartfelt forgiveness. I forgive myself, I forgive myself.
FORGIVENESS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE HURT OR HARMED YOU:
There are many ways that I have been harmed by others, abused or abandoned, knowingly or unknowingly, in thought, word or deed.
Let yourself picture and remember these many ways. Feel the sorrow you have carried from this past and sense that you can release this burden of pain by extending forgiveness when your heart is ready. Now say to yourself:
I now remember the many ways others have hurt or harmed me, wounded me, out of fear, pain, confusion and anger. I have carried this pain in my heart too long. To the extent that I am ready, I offer them forgiveness. To those who have caused me harm, I offer my forgiveness, I forgive you.
Let yourself gently repeat these three directions for forgiveness until you feel a release in your heart. For some great pains you may not feel a release but only the burden and the anguish or anger you have held. Touch this softly. Be forgiving of yourself for not being ready to let go and move on. Forgiveness cannot be forced; it cannot be artificial. Simply continue the practice and let the words and images work gradually in their own way. In time you can make the forgiveness meditation a regular part of your life, letting go of the past and opening your heart to each new moment with a wise loving kindness.
-
Have not posted on my progress lately. Still diving through what seems like ever deepening layers of the immaterial. Dreams have cycled from being extremely personal and painful(either emotional or physical), to being entirely random, to feeling like possible past lifetimes. Theres a dream I had in the past few months that was one of the more spiritual dreams I've had, besides flying and passing through walls. I was on some uninhabited planet. Pink, blue, yellow leaves on trees, yellow-green grass, the sky lightly tinted pink with a blanket of clouds all throughout. As I began walking forward, I felt my awareness 'intensify"? Then its like there was a large pressure release, and the "bottom" of my awareness stretched down to the floor. Simultaneously, the "top" of my awareness began to slowly stretch up into the sky. It just kept going and going until I passed beyond the clouds and into space. As I began to see other planets and stars, I realized I could see from ground level all the way to the planet and stars, but as one object of my awareness. As I realized how much was happening, I either became afraid or excited because I woke up immediately. Felt like I was getting smacked into my body, harder than usual on reentry.
Again this is just one of a slew of strange experiences over the past few months. I have been getting less and less sleep sadly, because the dreams are so intense they wake me up very often. Also because of the general increase in sensitivity and charisms these past few months, I just end up laying there meditating most of the night.
With all this, most of my relationships have finally fallen out. I think it is for the better honestly, because most of these people were pretty sucky to me. And that's being nice. I am only sad that my words and efforts were wasted so many years, and now there is noone who would hear me anyway. But I could not keep sacrificing what to me is my only savior and purpose for people who only wish to spin in their emotional turmoil, and then lash out at everything they love when life doesn't go their way (WHICH IT NEVER DOES). I do not blame them for the cycle, because I know how easy it is to end up there, and how hard it can be to move from it. But when I am consistently dismissed and even accused of being crazy and insensitive over and over, I am finding very little point in opening my mouth or lifting a finger. They do not want anything from me, even if I only intend to love and help. And I am not one to force my love where it is unwanted. I have been so sopping wet with sensitivity, I began learning Japanese a few months ago, as well as refreshing my Spanish. I've also begun drawing and painting, which I had a talent for in my youth, but traded exploring that for martial arts and football. I regret football but never martial arts. I may post some of them, because I honestly thought I had lost my ability to express artistically, and I never realized how much better I feel the better I get at it. I relate most of my new interests to my meditation, because it feels like I'm just supposed to keep diving into this sensitivity. It is making my life so alive and beautiful, even the darkest spots. It feels like letting the reigns around my heart go is the most essential thing for my contemplative life at this time. Been too sensitive to be around people lately, and stay to myself as often as possible.
That's all I'm going to report for now, I have been here typing too long. Thank you to everyone who takes the time to read my entries and for giving me a space to speak. There is still nowhere for me to speak of the things that I/we are going through here.
Much Love,
Rougeleader
-
Good to hear from you Rougeleader. Yes, I too find expanding awareness into the spiritual dimensions produced a profound sense of tumbling through space-time that this present space-time is just one of countless others that I have become aware of. It has also produced for me as well a sense of alienation in that there are so few with whom I can share this strange feeling of being a snow flake drifting through space-time.
-
Thank you for the support over the past few years Jhanananda. It has helped me more than I can ever say. It is true, the alienation is only getting worse for exactly the reasons you describe. Your book, A Stone Worn to Sand, has been a great comfort to me these past few months. I am so glad to know I am not crazy going through this transition, it is just taking some getting used to haha.
Much Love,
Rougeleader
-
This is why this forum exists.
-
Hello everyone,
There is not much new to report as of late. I have just simply been struggling with my practice. Lately my fear/anxiety have been high in relation to my meditation. I am ashamed to say I get afraid I may not be able to handle the path to enlightenment, or annihilation. The ringing in my ears blasts so loud and energy in my heart and third eye get so tingly and intense that I get restless. Especially as my thoughts stop entirely, I become lost how to calmly stay aware of the sensations. I think I may need to also find a way to relate to the charisms in a more religious mindset. it has been said in my thread and elsewhere that this will help them not feel like random sensations. Has anyone found a deceynt way to do this? What way could I interpret them?
Rougeleader
-
Hello, Rougeleader. It is good to hear from you again. I am sorry to read that fear and anxiety, but I am not surprised as the world is full of fear and anxiety, so as we meditate deeply sometimes we can feel the collective unconscious, which can be fear and anxiety.
I do agree that we are aided by a feeling of reverence toward the experience of deep meditation. Terms like: "God," "holy spirit" and "heavenly host" have been used by Christian mystics since the beginning of Christianity to describe their experiences, which appear to be quite similar to ours. Hindus use terms like: "Brahma;" Deva-loca;" "Shakti;" "Shiva;" "Babaji;" Buddhists use terms like: "Brahma-loca;" "Deva-loca;" "Bhodi;" or one of the four jhanas, or one of the four ayatanas; etc. Take your pick, of whatever floats your boat.
-
Hello everyone,
Just chiming in with a quick update. Still not entirely lucid in the dream state, though I am still not discouraged. Last night, like many, it felt like a few days went by during one and there were a variety throughout the night. I have observed this happening consitently during my meditations as well. I aware of the bliss and body for about an hour or so and then blackout and appear in a dream. When sitting meditation this is usually when my head will begin to nod off over and over, so I usually lay down and continue from there.
This morning meditation was just special because i found a deeper layer of bliss come to on than I was used to. But I was able to let go fairly deeply with awareness and have found my heart, throat,third eye heavily saturated in bliss today and the ringing on full blast whether my attention is on it or not. Just wanted to share the good of my day.
Good day fellows!
Rougeleader
-
Hello everyone,
Just chiming in with a quick update. Still not entirely lucid in the dream state, though I am still not discouraged. Last night, like many, it felt like a few days went by during one and there were a variety throughout the night. I have observed this happening consitently during my meditations as well. I aware of the bliss and body for about an hour or so and then blackout and appear in a dream. When sitting meditation this is usually when my head will begin to nod off over and over, so I usually lay down and continue from there.
I found that as I penetrated deeper into meditation states, then I went through a period of nodding out. I just stuck with it, until I broke through to deeper levels of consciousness.
This morning meditation was just special because i found a deeper layer of bliss come to on than I was used to. But I was able to let go fairly deeply with awareness and have found my heart, throat,third eye heavily saturated in bliss today and the ringing on full blast whether my attention is on it or not. Just wanted to share the good of my day.
Good day fellows!
Rougeleader
We all have ups and downs in meditation. It is good to know that you are making continued progress.
-
Thank you Jeffrey! I am definitely going to push to stay aware a little harder in that case, and try to continue sitting or standing as I begin to nod. Definitely riding a deeper wave of bliss and dreams this week. This past year there has been a definite shift from mostly nightmares every time I became lucid to being more benign and simply random.
There was even a period of intensely personal fear related dreams, but even those are coming with less frequency and cause much less to no trauma upon waking. And last ttime I dreamnt the plane I was on was plummeting to the ground, even though insanely terrifying and one of my biggest fears, I found myself letting my hands and arms float in the air from the forces and trying to relax my heart into accepting I couldn't control whether I died or not. And when I woke up I was not flooded with anxiety and bliss, but just the bliss of an intense and lucid dream. Ive had this dream many many times but i stilI take these as signs of deepening equanimity. I assume and hope that soon I will continue lessen and eventually lose my fear surrounding death and illness.
Rougeleader
-
Yes, the contemplative life reveals our inner most demons, which we must face to go deeper into meditation states; and as we go deeper into meditation states we expose deeper fears, and anxieties. All of this requires developing equanimity, which we get from deep meditation experiences, as you have described.
-
Hi
I saved a link to Jack Kornfield demonstrating the forgiveness meditation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiRP-Q4mMtk
Isn't it wonderful? At least, thats how I feel about it.
-
Very nice. Jack Kornfield, Insight Meditation Society and Spirit Rock were behind marginalizing me. Also, I have found no evidence of the superior attainments among: Jack Kornfield, Insight Meditation Society and Spirit Rock.
-
Spirit Rock Center, I know....
To my knowledge, Christopher Titmuss stopped teaching there.
The website and the meditation place have a very slick appearance.
-
It has been a while yet again. I have been wanting to post about it for the past month. On June 13th I had my first true immaterial experience. I have had plenty of experiences and lucid dreams up till this point and do every day. But not to the degree I am going to explain.
I realized I was in my dream as normal, but instead of feeling limited to the dreamspace I was in as I flew into the sky, it felt like infinity was sucking me into the sky. I decided to let go internally and the very second I did, I felt that strong force pull me right into space and up to the moon in a matter of seconds. As I started to zoom by the moon, I started to clench my fist and asked God to take it easy on me because I have never been so far out. And entirely alone at that!
Well the force lessened but the speed did not and I flew past many planets faster and faster until everything turned white. I think I lost conciousness for a moment, but I realized some time after that I was floating in front of a dream scene while floating in a dark space. I was able with intention to flew past multiple dream squares and tried to find a scene I knew or someone I knew or anything to keep myself conscious and explore. I went past a few and got close to one with a globin chasing someone. He somehow noticed me and pulled me into the dream space from the blackness. But I grabbed him by the ears and lifted him to my face level while still flying and told him not today. Kissed him on his gross nose and let him fall while I flew back into the black space. I remember vivdly closing my "fist" energy when I wanted to slow down and check into a dream square as I flew past. It was all so crazy but extremely lucid and intentional as I sit here typing this.
So my point was to say after over 5 years and at the age of 25, I have had an experience I feel was so needed for me spiritually. I know for certain there is plenty more and my journey is no where near complete. But I praise all the guidance I have found here for helping me to find a milestone on my journey. This is still the only place I find the support I need for this.
Strive on friends and best wishes till next time.
Rougeleader
-
Wow! What an amazing experience! I haven't been lucid during dream time, lately. What do you attribute to your success?
Based on present experiments based on past experience, it seems maintaining full body awareness and including as much of present experience in awareness at the same time has been successful. I also practice Kriya yoga 2-3 hours each day, and do classic dyana (jhana) breath meditation at least once a day for at least 45 minutes. But no wonderful results, yet--probably because I lost momentum for several years due to inactivity.
I wish I could better understand the dream scenes you described.
What practices do you do and for how long (if not done all day long)?
-
Congratulations Rougeleader, very good success. Keep it up. Do keep in mind that the evil lurks in the shadows in the immaterial domains; whereas, deep spiritual attainment resides in the light.
-
Hello Jhanon, it has been quite some time! I hope you are well.
The dreamscenes were just like floating screens with no frames. They were all squares and lined up horizontally. I never saw more than one at a time because there was just black space everywhere. One of them in particular that I turned away from because I was certain it was just my mind created world. There is a game called Terraria that I used to play a few years ago. One of the squares had a forest and water, and all of the 8bit textures that I knew for certain were from that game. I flew right past that as I searched for something more spiritually inclined but I failed.
But my main technique is to internally let go into the tactile charisms,ringing in my ear, as deeply as possible while paying attention to my whole body. I let the charisms be God's touch and the sound of his presence. I also pretend I am underwater but can breathe, regardless of what pose I am in. I have just found over time that it helps me tremendously in relaxing fully up into my eyes and nose and such. I do this while letting myself just be awareness and letting my body "drown" in the bliss and sound. I just melt into darkness. I do not have visual charisms yet except random splotchs that I am not sure are charisms. They never increase in intensity as obvious as the tactile and ringing do. Those two are directly tied to my meditative depth. And they are both always on full blast when I awake from lucid dreams or meditation. I learned the underwater thing from lucid dreams I have had since a child of being underwater yet able to breathe normally. It relaxes me every time and brings me back to those times I have become lucid after realizing I could breathe underwater and how freeing it was internally to feel like I was in a domain I could not die in and was meant to simply explore and experience.
All day I just focus on the charisms as often as I can and my full body awareness. I have 1-2 near 2 hour sessions daily and meditate before bed and Everytime I wake up throughout the night. I am a very light sleeper and end up waking often due to very small external disturbances that occur here every night unless I wear earplugs. So I often get an extra hour or two of meditation in between my sleeping periods because it is easiest for me to sleep after a half hour or so of 3rd and 4th jhana.
Sorry for so much info, I was just trying to be specific about what works for me consistently.
Jhananda, as always bless you and thank you for all of your guidance and support. I will always keep moving towards the light with your words in mind.
Rougeleader
-
But my main technique is to internally let go into the tactile charisms,ringing in my ear, as deeply as possible while paying attention to my whole body. I let the charisms be God's touch and the sound of his presence. I also pretend I am underwater but can breathe, regardless of what pose I am in. I have just found over time that it helps me tremendously in relaxing fully up into my eyes and nose and such. I do this while letting myself just be awareness and letting my body "drown" in the bliss and sound. I just melt into darkness. I do not have visual charisms yet except random splotchs that I am not sure are charisms. They never increase in intensity as obvious as the tactile and ringing do. Those two are directly tied to my meditative depth. And they are both always on full blast when I awake from lucid dreams or meditation. I learned the underwater thing from lucid dreams I have had since a child of being underwater yet able to breathe normally. It relaxes me every time and brings me back to those times I have become lucid after realizing I could breathe underwater and how freeing it was internally to feel like I was in a domain I could not die in and was meant to simply explore and experience.
All day I just focus on the charisms as often as I can and my full body awareness. I have 1-2 near 2 hour sessions daily and meditate before bed and Everytime I wake up throughout the night. I am a very light sleeper and end up waking often due to very small external disturbances that occur here every night unless I wear earplugs. So I often get an extra hour or two of meditation in between my sleeping periods because it is easiest for me to sleep after a half hour or so of 3rd and 4th jhana.
The above is very good technique, and very similar to my own.
Jhananda, as always bless you and thank you for all of your guidance and support. I will always keep moving towards the light with your words in mind.
Rougeleader
You are welcome, Rougeleader. I am so happy to see that you are making such good progress. Since I am old with many health issues now, someone has to take over the GWV. Perhaps it will be you, and others. I hope so.
-
I would be more than honored if a more senior member is not available. Just get in touch if that becomes necessary and I can send my personal contact info. I know we cannot live forever but I wish you many more healthy years. I know it is not easy.
Best wishes
Rougeleader
-
I would be more than honored if a more senior member is not available. Just get in touch if that becomes necessary and I can send my personal contact info. I know we cannot live forever but I wish you many more healthy years. I know it is not easy.
Best wishes
Rougeleader
I think you should take the torch, Rougeleader, if you have made the most progress among us in the spirit. Though we will all be here to support you (monetarily or otherwise) to carry on Jeff's legacy. Though I hope Jeff will remain with us, also, for many more years. :)
-
I would be more than honored if a more senior member is not available. Just get in touch if that becomes necessary and I can send my personal contact info. I know we cannot live forever but I wish you many more healthy years. I know it is not easy.
Best wishes
Rougeleader
Thanks for expressing your kind thoughts. You are now a moderator of this forum. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding your moderator activities.
Thanks, Alexander, for expressing your support.
-
Thank you both Jhananda and Alexander for your support. I will try and help out however I can. I'm glad to know there will be others here doing the same. :)
Rougeleader
-
Friends,
I am here today not in the best of spirits. I am growing entirely withdrawn from emotional interaction with any other human biengs. I am finding no matter who and no matter how long I have known a person, they are able to have such a level of disrespect and judgement upon me as a human that I feel physically ill. So much of my life I have been repressed in saying what I think or feel because of society or authority figures in my life. Now I find even though I have the voice to say how I feel or think, I am still punished for those exact things. It makes me feel like a slave or servant not being able to express myself simply or logically to an end. I am in the wrong for even daring to have feeling.I feel toyed with unnecessarily. i find myself saddened by what this life is turning out to be and how insane and dysfunctional this world feels on so many of its fundamental levels. I can feel society reflected over and over in my personal relationships and many random people I come across. It feels like we have come only so far since the beginning of our existence in relation to each other. We have technology and sciences, but I feel our minds and intentions have not gone far. The only thing that is making sense to stay sane the longer I live is to not get too close to people. Period. I just needed to vent somewhere I feel it would be understood.
Best Wishes
Rougeleader
-
Sorry to hear, Rougeleader, that you are having conflicts over your relationship with civilization; however, I too feel alienated by this insane world. The mendicant life has been the refuge of mystics, like you and I, but it is also a very hard road to travel. Good luck working your way through this current conflict.
-
Thank you Jhanananda. The sting in my heart is honestly eased by your words. I'm sure I will find a way to manage. All the more reason to dive in.
Rougeleader
-
Hello everyone,
I am here to ask if anyone feels a sense of purpose outside of this contemplative life?
The further I go, the more alienated I feel.
I found myself in a small exchange with an old friend who knows I have been meditating nearly every day for the past 7 years. I tried stating that the psychedelics might give him experiences that are otherworldly or "godly" but that I do not believe they work on the psyche the same way that long term deep mediation does. Also the companionship of the charisms and nighttime experiences make me feel like God is right on my breast, even if my experiences are not so "intense". I think they are far more lucid and less disorienting. As I have stated elsewhere, the changes in my psyche I feel are more engrained as lifetime/lifestyle changes, not simply flickering insights(although they do occur too). It is also something I can experience daily without taking a thing, so I do not understand the comparison. Much less the dismissal of meditation as some half asleep waste of time in comparison. I always feel like if people ever gave it a little dedication, and put some of their heart into diving deep they could at least experience some of what I am even talking about before they dismiss it. Instead most seem overly concerned with their thoughts and anxieties (hey I was too, thank god for Jhanananda) or they never get to the charisms and so on and think meditation is just sitting. I just keep feeling like the thing I want to live and express love and gratitude for most in my life, seems unimportant to most. I know this is just life for most of us here, but I felt the need to say it here from my experience.
Best Wishes,
Rougeleader
-
It is so good to read a message from you, Rougeleader. I agree wholeheartedly with your statement. Sadly, most people are not very bright, and are content with the superficial life; whereas, people with greater intelligence, such as you, as well as most of the members of this forum, find great fruit in scraping beneath the superficial life, and entering into a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life. Unfortunately the mob is not very bright, and generally marginalizes the intelligent contemplatives, who are few and far between. This is why this forum exists.
-
I am here to ask if anyone feels a sense of purpose outside of this contemplative life?
The further I go, the more alienated I feel.
One of the hard decisions I made for myself, which some might disagree with here, was wanting to embrace a contemplative life while fully embracing my sense of self, family, friends, livelihood, hobbies, and desires. I was at my third meditation retreat, and I was in the beginnings of a severe mental breakdown (which I didn't see at the time), and I had a realization, I am not a diving being, I am a human being. I didn't know what it meant, but I didn't have any sense of meaning in my life. I let everything go thinking its what I had to do to be 'happy'.
To answer your question, yes I feel a sense of purpose outside my contemplative life. I am not a monk and I don't want to be one. The rules for a monk are different than for someone like who is not a monk. Monk's need to let go of worldly attachment as part of their lifestyle and belief structure. That doesn't make their enlightenment or salvation any better or worse than someone who is not a monk. Monks *can* (not always) reach the goal of salvation faster, but they also have fewer distractions.
Personally, I like the challenge of retaining my sense of self while leading a contemplative life. It's a dance that's more natural to me, rather than letting go of the 'ego' to fall into misery. Of course, my growth in the contemplative life will be slower in some ways because I simply won't have the time to live in a monastery or the wilderness. But, that's my choice. It has brought new layers of meaning to contemplation, meditation, and prayer to me I didn't realize before. It has deepened my psyche. I have said it before on this forum, my main religion is probably philosophy.
-
Thank-you, Josh, for posting your interesting points of view, which I shared for many years. Just be prepared for your sense of self to change as you deepen your contemplative life.
-
I want to say thank you both for replying to my last post.
When i started this path about 7 years ago, I felt very similar to you Josh. But this world and the people who inhabit it make this life more of a hellish drag than it should be. As much as I aspire to to live the householder contemplative lifestyle, I feel like more of a monk at heart, with no temple to reside at and no fellow monks to sit with. The further I have gone down this path, the more disjunctive I feel in relation to my body, mind, and personality. To be a monk to me does not at all mean that we need to forsake these things.They have never stopped existing no matter how far removed I feel from them. They have just been shown to me to not have the same strength of substance or truth as my awareness/consciousness feels to me. I truly feel like an ancient or timeless entity residing in the home of my body, which contains a mind and an inherent personality.
It is not that I do not find these things useful and amazing in their own right, they are just not seen as important to me in comparison to the bliss and solidarity I find in deep meditation. I feel like my personality is more of a culmination of past experiences and reactions to make me move how I do in this present moment. It is unique and beautiful in its own right, but not at the same time. It feels like all of life is just that, without a direct purpose. This may seem like a negative or solemn view to have, but it has seriously freed me from so much of my anxieties about existence, life, death, god. I do not feel the need to worry, and instead simply feel inquisitive about various topics, but no longer feel like I am searching for the meaning of life or what my purpose is. It feels irrelevant in the overall picture, and most likely is. I feel like my only purpose is to dive deeper and cleanse my psyche and awareness of attachment to this never ending spiral of body, mind, and world. It has all occurred naturally through the experiences I continue to have and the heavy loads of daily bliss, that I feel such detachment.
But I cannot state enough how much bliss and happiness resides in my body and heart, regardless of all the hellish things this domain presents. And knowing that I may live and die without much purpose. That is something I am finding the average person never even experiences. Most of them only know anxiety and neuroticism, with brief moments of quiet. And when they ask me for help, they often times get angry that I would ask them to let some of their concerns go and dive deep, at least give it a shot. Instead I find a lot of people tend to fight to keep their anxieties spinning so that they can continue to feel something solid about their existence, even though that is the very reason they fret. I am not trying to dismiss their problems and anxieties, as I have/had them too, but I feel like I have found(all due to Jhanananda) a truly wholesome way to manage a lot of internal strife and find a true sense of happiness not based solely on my circumstances or achievements. I am still diving to find the white light, but the bliss is ever deepening and strong and the ringing in my ears blasts loud and clear when I am saturated, so I know I am headed the right way.
Best Wishes
Rougeleader
-
Rougeleader, I am so happy to see the progress that you have made. Yes, we mystics become more, and more alienated by the world, and often through history we see solo monks rarely meeting a fellow mystic. We can thank modernism, and the internet for one great gift to mysticism. It allows us, who are thinly spread out all over the planet, to find each other, and commune here. Do keep up the excellent work in this hellish world, because future mystics depend upon all of us here to complete the journey.
-
Hello friends,
Im reporting quickly just to get some of what I have been going through out.
I can feel that I am definitely going through some kind of shift. I think it is a mixture of my personal maturity and my contemplative maturity. But I am feeling such and an intense change in my perceptions these past 2 months. My birthday is coming this weekend and for the past two months, I have felt as if I have been at an extended retreat. Or how I felt when i first began meditating seriously. I have been overwhelmed with energy, day and night. Usually it waxes and wanes in a loving playful way that keeps me relaxed and feeling continuely blissful and content almost all of the time. But lately it has been on full blast nonstop. The energy feels like it is seeping out of my nostrils and beaming out of my head. I feel this bliss dripping down my throat and raining on my heart. It feels like im in the center of a whirlwind of this blissful energy and it has barely eased at all since starting work. I feel as though i am meditating so naturally because of the simple manual work that i do, keeps me active enough without engaging my mind as much.
I think at any time before this in my practice, i would be beyond terrified. I would be certain i was going crazy with this much intensity. But I feel the need the just keep submitting. I am the one pushing the pace usually it feels like to some degree. i stop when it is too much, and dive deep when my soul calls for freedom. But i feel taken lately. I feel like i have to give myself internally because i am being burned beyond my capacity. It feels beautiful and scary and so deeply bonding of a relationship. I feel like im tangled in love and im sky high about to fall, but it seems impossible to avoid. Its such a strange feeling and I have been trying to process my thoughts about it, so I felt the need to type some of it here. I have never felt "religious" necessarily until the beginning of 2019, and it has just blossomed in my heart. I sense a connection to "god" even though I have not had a full on kundalini blast for a few years. I can just tell this is an opening to whatever is next for me and I am trying to keep my heart open, and my fears relaxed. It has been so difficult to sleep, and i still have very lucid dreams every time i rest my body all night long. I do not get to nap as often but it is the same.
Any way, this is all I can type up at this time. Hopefully my next update will be sooner. I wish you all the best letting go into whatever levels you find yourselves at. I will be trying my best to do the same.
Best Wishes,
Rougeleader
-
Clearly, Rougeleader, you are making excellent progress. I am certain if you keep going as you are, then the bliss, joy and ecstasy that you are experiencing now will only deepen, and become more profound. So, keep up the good work.
-
Thank you Jhanananda!
-
I am happy for you Rougeleader. :) Unfortunately it is very painful for me to read these as my practice has not led to the same results.
-
:)
I m happy for you. Keep up.
Hello friends,
Im reporting quickly just to get some of what I have been going through out.
I can feel that I am definitely going through some kind of shift. I think it is a mixture of my personal maturity and my contemplative maturity. But I am feeling such and an intense change in my perceptions these past 2 months. My birthday is coming this weekend and for the past two months, I have felt as if I have been at an extended retreat. Or how I felt when i first began meditating seriously. I have been overwhelmed with energy, day and night. Usually it waxes and wanes in a loving playful way that keeps me relaxed and feeling continuely blissful and content almost all of the time. But lately it has been on full blast nonstop. The energy feels like it is seeping out of my nostrils and beaming out of my head. I feel this bliss dripping down my throat and raining on my heart. It feels like im in the center of a whirlwind of this blissful energy and it has barely eased at all since starting work. I feel as though i am meditating so naturally because of the simple manual work that i do, keeps me active enough without engaging my mind as much.
I think at any time before this in my practice, i would be beyond terrified. I would be certain i was going crazy with this much intensity. But I feel the need the just keep submitting. I am the one pushing the pace usually it feels like to some degree. i stop when it is too much, and dive deep when my soul calls for freedom. But i feel taken lately. I feel like i have to give myself internally because i am being burned beyond my capacity. It feels beautiful and scary and so deeply bonding of a relationship. I feel like im tangled in love and im sky high about to fall, but it seems impossible to avoid. Its such a strange feeling and I have been trying to process my thoughts about it, so I felt the need to type some of it here. I have never felt "religious" necessarily until the beginning of 2019, and it has just blossomed in my heart. I sense a connection to "god" even though I have not had a full on kundalini blast for a few years. I can just tell this is an opening to whatever is next for me and I am trying to keep my heart open, and my fears relaxed. It has been so difficult to sleep, and i still have very lucid dreams every time i rest my body all night long. I do not get to nap as often but it is the same.
Any way, this is all I can type up at this time. Hopefully my next update will be sooner. I wish you all the best letting go into whatever levels you find yourselves at. I will be trying my best to do the same.
Best Wishes,
Rougeleader
-
Thank you all friends for encouraging me forward.
Alexander, I am sorry to hear that your practice has not been as fruitful as you wish. I hope you do not take it personally. I am sure it is but a matter of time. I do not have many of the experiences that i have read from others on this forum. The light charism is also nonexistent for me, so i often feel like i am still in the "dark" in my spiritual practice. I take Jhanananda's words to heart that each person may have their own experience of the sacred, and not everyone will have all the charisms. But that it does not detract from their progress. I am simply trying to say, i hope you do not give up. I wish for my experiences to do nothing more than encourage others to explore deeper themselves and to know they are not alone. I do often think of you and your practice, and i think you have been very dedicated and disciplined. So i am wishing you the very best in finding the depth you are looking for.
Best Wishes
Rougeleader
-
Hello friends,
I am here again to state how absolutely intense and attention grabbing this energy is getting. At times it is so heavy i feel like the air around me is just saturated in blissful energy. Like i breathe in and it is blasting through my nostrils and brain, all in my mouth and jaw, down my neck and throat, exploding in my heart and lungs, and making my abdomen swirl with butterflies. My arms and legs and feet and hands are just lit and almost trembling with energy. I find any moment i find alone, i am able to go deep into meditation quickly. My mind just gets lost in all of this energy and loud but "joyful" ringing. It feels like i can "feel" the ringing inside as a tacticle sensation throughout my whole body. I am trying to say that the charisms i experience feel like one thing "inside" of me. Both the tactile energy and ringing feel like they are in the space around me, but almost boundless, my body feels like the framework im holding onto to keep myself centered in the whirlwind of energy i feel all around and through me.
If you have seen Dragon Ball Z, an pretty popular anime, i feel like a super sayian all of the time, even when my body and mind are completely exhausted and stressed out, i still feel this energy blasting out of me. As i said at least at this point in my practice i dont feel crazy necessarily. I just feel overstimulated in a way that i definitely have to continully submit internally, my psyche and such, and relax my physical twithes and contractions from the intensity. I know what i say isnt new in the language ive used, but the experience of all of this truly has deepened incredibly over the years. And lately i wish i could just transfer this energy into people so they could feel how intense this can be, and how i experience my life while trying to live a laymens life. It is nuts sometimes, and i just wish ididnt feel like people around have no clue what i am going through and judge me from what they get in my behavior only. Im going through stuff people! Lol. Thank you guys. Till next time.
Best wishes
Rougeleader
-
You are doing very well, Rougeleader. Just do whatever you have to to keep it present with you, because if you do, then it will get even better. To go this deep and deeper one will have to make meditating deeply a full-time practice.
-
Hello friends,
I am here again to state how absolutely intense and attention grabbing this energy is getting. At times it is so heavy i feel like the air around me is just saturated in blissful energy. Like i breathe in and it is blasting through my nostrils and brain, all in my mouth and jaw, down my neck and throat, exploding in my heart and lungs, and making my abdomen swirl with butterflies. My arms and legs and feet and hands are just lit and almost trembling with energy. I find any moment i find alone, i am able to go deep into meditation quickly. My mind just gets lost in all of this energy and loud but "joyful" ringing. It feels like i can "feel" the ringing inside as a tacticle sensation throughout my whole body. I am trying to say that the charisms i experience feel like one thing "inside" of me. Both the tactile energy and ringing feel like they are in the space around me, but almost boundless, my body feels like the framework im holding onto to keep myself centered in the whirlwind of energy i feel all around and through me.
If you have seen Dragon Ball Z, an pretty popular anime, i feel like a super sayian all of the time, even when my body and mind are completely exhausted and stressed out, i still feel this energy blasting out of me. As i said at least at this point in my practice i dont feel crazy necessarily. I just feel overstimulated in a way that i definitely have to continully submit internally, my psyche and such, and relax my physical twithes and contractions from the intensity. I know what i say isnt new in the language ive used, but the experience of all of this truly has deepened incredibly over the years. And lately i wish i could just transfer this energy into people so they could feel how intense this can be, and how i experience my life while trying to live a laymens life. It is nuts sometimes, and i just wish ididnt feel like people around have no clue what i am going through and judge me from what they get in my behavior only. Im going through stuff people! Lol. Thank you guys. Till next time.
Best wishes
Rougeleader
I like how you said "ringing inside the whole body" - it points towards that "One Unified Sense" that I experienced too. Almost like synaesthesia, like a blending of all the different sense modalities into one pure single 'eye'. The charisms are what I seek solace in during busy life. The auditory charism in particular, seems to give me an endless source of energy and vitality along with blissfulness.
-
Yes, friends, this is the path of the mystic, whereby we occupy our self, more and more with the charisms (jhana-nimitta), which results in more and more bliss. You both have found the path, now just keep going deeper.
-
Friends,
I am at such a strange place in my life. I feel it. I feel the pull in my heart all day and all night. For the past 2 years, I have been gripped by the bliss, love, tranquility, and passion. I feel like i cant see straight, i feel so taken in my senses. So many days feel like a beautiful dream. And the stressors of life feel like a reinforced nightmare that I see through, even if it makes me stir sometimes. Lately i just want to sing or dance, touch my fellow humans, hear and feel the vibrations of joy expressing through them. I want to remain sunken and deep in love. I want to love and dance with everyone. And the pain, this great seething pain that used to come from the fear of death, and the suffering of life, now feels like the pain of a missed song and dance. Like a sunny day gone before i ever see the rays and feel its warmth. Like something so simple that is turning into a blessed love inside of me, that i cant share with anyone. Everyone around me shackled and frowning, tears everywhere. And i just want them to know. I want them to be free. I want them to feel the winds of god blow through them, and liven their hearts and souls. I want them to feel the fiery dragon like passion that this life was supposed to be. Im so tired of frowning with them. Im tired of playing this sad part. My time is nothing, and i know death is coming so quickly. I hope i can reconcile these feelings with this life I am trying to live. It gnaws at me so often.
Best Wishes,
Rougeleader
-
Hello, Rougeleader. I hear your conflict, and I haw shared it. I have come to realize that the confusion and fear that many of us experience is the inherent conflict between biology and spirit. biology is driven by the biological imperatives of subsistence, reproduction and survival; whereas, spirit unites us all in love, bliss and joy. I have found as long as I attend to spirit then I will have bliss, joy and ecstasy; whereas, when I attend to biology, then I will be filled with fear, insecurity, and craving and covetousness.
-
Hi Rougeleader,
Your comment reminds me of a conversation I had with my priest friend years ago. As mystics, I feel we are often in "disguise" - but it feels nice every once in a while to be able to speak openly. I remember telling him how much I hated it here, how much I wanted to get out of here - basically talking like an alien in human form, haha. That kind of feeling can only come from within; it is the hatred of matter and the want to return to Reality. Well, who knows why we are here. I certainly know that I am ready to go at any time, and in fact am eagerly awaiting death and being able to escape this place. As much as I love these humans, I will certainly not be returning here again. ;)
-
Hello friends,
I am just reporting in quickly before I sleep. I thank you for your responses here. I have been sick with whatever sickness is going around this season. Has knocked me around for almost 2 weeks, but I am finally getting better. Work did not help.
Im finding that my arthritis is starting to affect me so much more. I wasnt expecting to feel so many worsening symptoms at such a young age. Only being in my late twenties, i find it discouraging to find my mobility being limited by severe pain. I have been very active my whole life, so it has been such a fast change in the past five years alone. Just walking around at work for a few hours Tuesday kept me in bed with a back brace all day today with what I believe is a bulging disc. I did not even lift anything. The pain locks up my hip and sends shooting pains down my quadricep nerve. I can barely stand up straight. I can feel an underlying inflammation in my whole body and all of my nerves feel affected in some way. So i am hoping soon to get some medical financial assistance so I can be a bit more functional and have less pain.
The bliss is strong but my body is not. Goodness.
Best Wishes,
Rougeleader
-
Dear Rogueleader,
If you are suffering from arthritis and inflammatory issues, I suggest you look into an anti-inflammatory diet. Either paleo, or the Whole30 diet are good for this.
I've done this, and the results have been amazing.
-
Good advice, Intuition. I too am sorry that rougeleader115 is having so many health problems, and I agree, it is looking like an autoimmune issue. As many of you know I too have had autoimmune health problems most of my life, and I have found an ultra-low carb diet works quite well for me; however, sleeping with the windows and doors closed and a HEPA filter filtering the air I breath has helped me more than anything else that I have tried; and I have been trying everything that seemed reasonable to reduce my autoimmune condition most of my life.
-
Hello Friends,
I just came to search for topics for surrendering, annihilation, trying to tease out an insight into what I feel is happening. I feel like I am about to dissolve. My "soul" aura, chakras, and what feels like the mental framework and layering that makes me feel solid is just vibrating so much. It feels like everything that is "me" is vibrating into everything vibrating outside of me. Like i am the drop dissappearing into the ocean, and i FEEL it. Im going to go meditate now, but i wanted to say something about this because I am struggling, just not like before. I am far less afraid and want to submit, but it still feels like tiny me to the magnitude of "god/godhead/infinite".
Best Wishes
Rougeleader
-
Good work Rougeleader. The practice of meditation that leads to depth, also leads to shedding the cognitive structures, including identity. This is a good practice; because when we die we will have to let go of the world anyway. And, if we are successful in doing so, and we are contemplatives accustomed to deep meditation, then we will go out of body, and travel to the highest spiritual domains, were we will see a vast expanse of points of light. We will see that each point of light is a being, and each being radiates pure love, and communes with all of the other points of light on a 'carrier-wave' of pure love. If you can shed your ego, and your other cognitive processes, then you will take your place among these beings of light and love. This expanse of light beings has been called by many names, but I like "heavenly host" the best. Good work, keep going deeper.
-
Jhanananda,
Thank you so much for your words of guidance. On so many levels, you are the guiding light of my contemplative life. You give me many resources and mystics to investigate, and you have delved into spiritual topics on so many forums that it feels like easily a lifetime of teachings and then some. Even you as a being, what I have been able to experience and dialogue with, has tremendously helped me grow as a human and spiritual being. My words fail what I mean, but I just want to say thank you to you specifically. And thank you so much for your last message.
Best Wishes,
Rougeleader
-
You are welcome, Rougeleader. The way that each and every member of this forum can thank me, and the senior members who have now gone out of body, is for each and every one of you to meditate as deeply as possible, and participate on this forum helping future contemplatives to meditate at the depth that you meditate at; because others will have to take over very soon.
-
I will do my best at just that. I feel more than indebted to do so. I hope you dont plan on leaving us anytime soon! It is saddening that many senior members have passed. I wish I knew of a way to also memorialize them on the forum. But either way, I will be leaving the workforce for the next few months to continue finding a direction for my lay life, hopefully in art. So I should be more active here.
Best Wishes
Rougeleader
-
Rougeleader, you have been a member of this forum since November 07, 2013. You have posted 116 messages here, which shows you have been a consistent, contributing member here. Additionally, your blogs, and meditation experience reports clearly demonstrate that you consistently meditate at depth, and your meditation experiences support the overall conclusions of this forum; and the depth of your meditation clearly demonstrate that you meditate to greater depth than the typical person who teachers meditation today. Additionally, you have supported other's reports here; this is why I have made you a Global Moderator here. Therefore you are a valued member, and leader, of this forum.
The health of this body has lately, and again, declined steeply, thus none of us can be sure how much longer that this body will remain alive, or effective. It is therefore necessary to mentor other leaders here, if this forum, and the mission of the GWV, will continue.
Good luck in your pursuit of a sustainable lifestyle that supports both your contemplative life, and your art.
-
Jhanananda,
Thank you for your kind words of support. I will do my best to uphold this forum along with the remaining "senior" members here. I am again sorry to hear your health is not well.
All of this week has been a lot of energy and changes in my life. Just giant blissful waves passing through the sky, washing through my house and drowning me over and over. Its like I can just breathe it in for hours at a time, sometimes driving me on the edge of my sanity, but in such a weirdly sweet way. Ecstasy feels like the word. My life feels like it is all recentering on my contemplative life for me. The final full moon of the year approaches this week and I feel it day and night.
I dont know how to express my good feelings towards you and your life, besides doing what I can for your mission. I wish there was a better way for me to say all that I want to right now. It all sounds cheesy or inappropriate, but I wish you well no matter what. Thank you.
Rougeleader
-
Jhanananda,
Thank you for your kind words of support. I will do my best to uphold this forum along with the remaining "senior" members here. I am again sorry to hear your health is not well.
It is my job as a mystic to mentor the next generation of mystics; so that is my goal for the GWV, which means its members support that central premise, and as long as they do, then the GWV should continue on into the future; therefore as a member of the GWV supporting future and present mystics should be your primary mission.
All of this week has been a lot of energy and changes in my life. Just giant blissful waves passing through the sky, washing through my house and drowning me over and over. Its like I can just breathe it in for hours at a time, sometimes driving me on the edge of my sanity, but in such a weirdly sweet way. Ecstasy feels like the word. My life feels like it is all recentering on my contemplative life for me. The final full moon of the year approaches this week and I feel it day and night.
A genuine mystic will change his or her life to maintain those "giant bliss waves" every day, and all day long. This requires a dedicated, disciplined, and rigorous, self-aware contemplative life. The fact that you are experiencing "giant bliss waves" is supporting evidence that you lead such a life, so keep it up.
I dont know how to express my good feelings towards you and your life, besides doing what I can for your mission. I wish there was a better way for me to say all that I want to right now. It all sounds cheesy or inappropriate, but I wish you well no matter what. Thank you.
Rougeleader
As long as you support the mission of the GWV you show your thanks for the mission of the GWV in the most real way. With leaving behind dedicated, disciplined, and rigorous, self-aware fruitful contemplatives, then my work has been successful. I would like to see as many as possible, so I will continue to support dedicated, disciplined, and rigorous, self-aware, fruitful contemplatives until this body stops functioning, which looks to be quite soon.
-
Hello everyone,
I noticed the forum has been very quiet. I hope everyone is okay and just lurking around time to time. Times are not looking too good in the world right now. I hope things end up being okay but I cant help but feel like i needed to say the generally feeling of doom in the air feels thicker than normal.
Today though after mediation while on a walk, i just felt like my awareness was touching a large outer aura around me. Feels like an arua almost touching the sky and a large space around the edges of my of my body feel entirely consumed in bliss and love. I feel like it is always simply a case now of relaxing my body and mind, and my awareness just relaxes from being constrained in my body, to washing away in everdeepening layers of bliss. It truly is a saturation or dissolving kind of action. What is "solid" and "real" are only layers and layers of intangible things. Things that readily dissolve back into the ether of life. I just hope that i truly can/have dissolved myself enough before I die of whatever so that I can truly be free.
Best Wishes,
Rougeleader
-
I am glad you are doing well, Rougeleader. I have been navigating this life's obstacles as best I can. It looks like I will be losing a job soon - so I will have to make a decision on what to do next. I've been considering going for a PhD, so perhaps I will collect unemployment for a while then pursue that next year. This is also happening amidst a pandemic - and one that is going to cause a global recession - but that is par for the course for the human realm.
I confess I have not been meditating. I honestly do not enjoy meditating, and I have never experienced any remarkable results from it. I also confess I have not been following through on my self-inquiry (24/7 practice) either, as I did that for years with no results. It seems I am at a spiritual standstill.
I generally defer to the Inner Director on what actions I should take, but it does not compel me to do anything. It did tell me last year that it was time I "go my own way" and that I had become my own authority, which I did take to heart. It also pushed me to read all these works by OOBE writers, including William Buhlman, which I admit has been worth the time. But, while I am certain I will not be returning here again, at the same time if the end of this life was to make great spiritual progress I am not very impressed with myself.
I confess I have been getting more incredulous about the claims of mystics. I have been shifting more toward the OOBE perspective in my views. I have no frame of reference for the altered state of consciousness you describe so I don't really know what to believe. So, I have just continued in the experience of the mundane, approaching this life's ills as best a human can. I will likely resume my practice again - but when I feel less discouraged.
Would you say the experience you had that afternoon was a concrete real experience? Do you experience these states when you meditate? Do you experience them 24/7? Do you enjoy sitting there for 1-2 hours? Perhaps you can give me a recommendation for my practice.
-
Alexander,
I thank you for your response to my post. I am sorry to hear your practice is still not giving you the succor you need for this life. I will state again how much I still believe you should be most capable with how deep your understanding of the contemplative life is. I do not mean to dismiss your troubles i just mean i feel you certainly could attain it with your understanding and feelings on nondualism.
I will say that it is absolutely a concrete experiences that I am trying to express. I am sorry if it comes of unnecessarily poetic or dramatic, but it is because the experience truly is so. Even typing this now, my ears are ringing loudly resonating perfectly with the bliss/energy/tacticle tingles thats i feel throughout my whole body, and especially strong in my third eye, throat, heart, and top of my head. So be it that people call those places chakras. I dont believe anything ive been taught about them or read online, but i cant deny the experience of extreme tingling tactile bliss any more than i can the other sensations that happen in my body. They are there, i wish i had a better way to express to you.
I have taken mushrooms and LSD and I can say without question that the vibrations and energy that I have felt in my body of those drugs were like lesser versions of what I feel now. The same is for marijuana and edible marijuana. I get to similar places, but with much less control and lucidity, and much more side effects. I really mean less than similar, Jeffrey is right to say meditation is like like a rolls royce to the garbage can that drugs usually are. There is a true personal and soul bonding experience when what you go through is more intense and engaging than anything you have ever experienced while not being caused by any thing or drug, but you submitting fully as a whole entity inner and outer. After about a year it had become a 24/7 experience for me. It has always been a case of whether I was consistent, and more importantly internally submitting. I couldnt out discipline my internal ability to submit, it is very scary to submit to what literally feels like infinite levels of bliss and energy available all the time. As long as i submit consistently and fully, the bliss has always been at deeper levels than say the last mediation or the week before. It is actually ever deepening. It has been about 9 years now since I began. I have always had very lucid dreams since i was a child but I felt like an empty shell casing with nothing but depression anxiety and anger for the second decade of my life. And since about 4 years ago i have felt entirely entranced and over taken with the bliss and out of body experiences to the point that i feel like salt dissolving away. It is second nature now to submit and let go, even when it is absolutely overwhelming and kind of scary. Like Jeffrey saying and stone worn to sand, and other mystics ways of expressing that.
If i am focused on life and ita troubles and etc. I cannot let go fully and have to attend to relieving and relaxing my tensions whether physical, mental, external problems. So in a sense like the Christians i see how everything is on me to let go and give myself up. Because gods infinite love is always there and readily available to feel and experience in this life. Maybe not in its infinite form all the time and only here and there out of body. But the blissful waves and surrounding ether are literally always available to any awareness that can relax and tune in to those deep layers of bliss and love. And i promise you it is not metaphorical. It literally feels like the most pure and unconditional love and infinite energy that you could ever imagine. And you can truly die once you know what that experience can feel like. My whole life has become dedicated to it simply from the first experience and no one ever needed to tell me anything. Every way I try to exress it are my own words and attempt with terrible vocabulary to say what many mystics say better.
Im going to stop here because I know I am overtyping, but the passion I feel for people to experience this, especially people like you, is strong. If you have any other questions or even critizism to what Ive said please dont hesitate. I wont be offended whatever you say, I honestly just want to help if I can.
Rougeleader
-
I will add too that the biggest saving grace to my contemplative life was similar to what Jeffrey says about enriching the spiritual life.
I stopped dissolving into to nothingness and started dissovling into love. My heart and soul have started soaring ever since.
-
Thanks, Rougeleader, I am just so frustrated I do not experience any of this. But, your posts do always inspire me to resume my practice. :) Granted, I do hear now the ringing in the ears, and feel the vibrations in the body, but they have never gone anywhere further from here. But, I will try what you say, to relax and submit to the universal love pervading the cosmos.
-
Hello everyone,
I noticed the forum has been very quiet. I hope everyone is okay and just lurking around time to time. Times are not looking too good in the world right now. I hope things end up being okay but I cant help but feel like i needed to say the generally feeling of doom in the air feels thicker than normal.
I am glad to finally see some activity here. I check in everyday, but maybe I should post something. My health has been a huge challenge, so it has occupied me fully. Air purifiers are keeping me alive. Improvements that I make in them improve my health, so I keep focused upon that.
With the current pandemic taking place I certain that global health would be far better if there was no air pollution. Since there is air pallution, then we can mitigate for it by using air-purifiers.
Today though after mediation while on a walk, i just felt like my awareness was touching a large outer aura around me. Feels like an arua almost touching the sky and a large space around the edges of my of my body feel entirely consumed in bliss and love. I feel like it is always simply a case now of relaxing my body and mind, and my awareness just relaxes from being constrained in my body, to washing away in everdeepening layers of bliss. It truly is a saturation or dissolving kind of action. What is "solid" and "real" are only layers and layers of intangible things. Things that readily dissolve back into the ether of life. I just hope that i truly can/have dissolved myself enough before I die of whatever so that I can truly be free.
Best Wishes,
Rougeleader
It sounds like you are doing great. I know if you keep it up until the day you die, then you will be able to negotiate the spiritual domains to the highest relms.
-
Thanks, Rougeleader, I am just so frustrated I do not experience any of this. But, your posts do always inspire me to resume my practice. :) Granted, I do hear now the ringing in the ears, and feel the vibrations in the body, but they have never gone anywhere further from here. But, I will try what you say, to relax and submit to the universal love pervading the cosmos.
Do you use the ringing that you hear, and the vibrations that you feel as an object of meditation, meaning that you put your attention fully upon them when you meditate? If so, this works for me, and I find it takes me deeper into the meditation experience.
-
Alexander I am glad that I can assist you in some way. I will always be hoping for your breakthrough. If you ever want to ask me something or PM me, please do.
Jhanananda I had finally gotten the funds together about 2 weeks ago and bought an air purifier and an additional HEPA charcoal filter. This was purely from your posts here. I have had a significant decrease in a lot of congestive respiratory symptoms. I no longer feel the need to take an allergy medication every day to combat dander, dust, mold, pollution etc. in my room. My lungs dont feel as inflammed as usual and i rarely need to clear my throat or cough throughout the day. I am finally going to be able to see a doctor this week and will probably move forward towards a diagnosis on the autoimmune disorder i have been outright suffering the past few years. Ill update on what I find out and other health changes in the coming weeks. Praying i dont catch anything at the doctors office x_x.
Rougeleader
-
Hello friends,
I have been trying to make my way back here to post the past few weeks. I have felt like my lord is drawing me into him. I simply mean that I am being pulled deeper into myself. One of my friends said when I tried to explain my experience of my contemplative life that it sounds like I am reverse free falling. I really like that expression of internal exploration at times. I am finding that unconditional love experience is becoming the only thing i wish to explore, express, and die in. Every mystic’s call unto love makes my heart ooze and cry. All day long i feel that loving godly experience pulling my whole soul into unity with it.
I dont feel like I am being purified by some mean overlord, but by one that wants my whole being to drown and buzz in love. It wants me to die in love. Live in love. I feel like I have the biggest crush on all of existence. None of my friends and family truly grasp the loving waters I find myself swimming in for months now. I feel absolutely mad with love, sick and infused. Suffocating in the sweetest most intoxicating love I could ever imagine and I just wish I had physical vicinity with others diving deeper with worship. A tribe? Some monks or sufis?....just a group living this as the core of their existence so I dont have to think twice about it or feel so entirely heartbreakingly alone at times.
I thank you all and think of you all often and the members who have passed from here. I am so grateful to have all of you here at least.
Rougeleader
-
Excellent post, Rougeleader. It reminds me of Rumi's writings where he compares himself to the town drunk, but drunk instead on mystic love.
-
Thank you Alexander. He is one of my favorites for his “thirst” for the divine. I am trying to find as many instances as I can when these mystics lose themselves and cant help but confess their deepest yearning and captivation with the divine. I am hoping to get some kind of slideshow and video together so I can begin presenting some of my understanding and tie it to mystics from all times and religions as Jhanananda has done. I want people to be able to hear the information, see images of the mystics and other relative photos, as well as the books or audiobooks where these things can be found. Im still figuring out how I intend to actually present and do all of this, so it is entirely a work in progress at the moment. But for now I will continue collecting information.
Rougeleader
-
Yes I've been wanting to take up oil painting and start creating some portrayals of these figures myself. I've been disappointed personally in a lot of the mystic art. I was planning to paint Jeff as the American Buddha, do Teresa and John, and create several pieces of Shaivist art. In fact that was what caused my accidental poisoning in March ha. Those chemicals are very toxic for a newcomer. But, hopefully the fates won't look too harshly on my intention and will grant me a full recovery one of these days.
-
Hello friends,
I have been trying to make my way back here to post the past few weeks. I have felt like my lord is drawing me into him. I simply mean that I am being pulled deeper into myself. One of my friends said when I tried to explain my experience of my contemplative life that it sounds like I am reverse free falling. I really like that expression of internal exploration at times. I am finding that unconditional love experience is becoming the only thing i wish to explore, express, and die in. Every mystic’s call unto love makes my heart ooze and cry. All day long i feel that loving godly experience pulling my whole soul into unity with it.
I dont feel like I am being purified by some mean overlord, but by one that wants my whole being to drown and buzz in love. It wants me to die in love. Live in love. I feel like I have the biggest crush on all of existence. None of my friends and family truly grasp the loving waters I find myself swimming in for months now. I feel absolutely mad with love, sick and infused. Suffocating in the sweetest most intoxicating love I could ever imagine and I just wish I had physical vicinity with others diving deeper with worship. A tribe? Some monks or sufis?....just a group living this as the core of their existence so I dont have to think twice about it or feel so entirely heartbreakingly alone at times.
I thank you all and think of you all often and the members who have passed from here. I am so grateful to have all of you here at least.
Rougeleader
It sounds like you got it Rougeleader. just nurture this divine love very carefully like a rare flower.
I looked everywhere for decades for a community of fellow mystics, and never found it, so I created it here on the web. It seems there are plenty of mystics, but we are spread so thinly upon the earth that we almost never meet. It is the internet that has made it possible for us to commune with and learn from each other.
-
Hello friends,
The past two weeks have been very strange but I believe I understand whats happening. I find myself many nights now having less content for my dreams. But i can still feel my awareness either at random parts during the experience or i feel the images and other impressions on my mind. Whether i directly experience it in the moment or not.
Its even hard to type out exactly what I mean. I can feel my awareness like hyper relaxed and expanded during my sleep state. And its like it just floats through random spaces. Sometimes just dark, or with hues of color. Sometimes it is like there is a source of light near the color and all around both is darkness. But none of the experiences feel volitional. And as I said many times I am not even aware because it feels like there is so little stimuli, but somehow I can still sense myself. But it often feels like I am in that state for years even when I look back on the memory in the morning. I dont know how to explain it but thats just how much “time” feels like my awareness has been from my body in the morning. It is somewhat scary of course because it is new. But it feels like it is supposed to happen.
But there is a tremendous relaxation in my psyche occurring that I havent felt since the charisms felt like they took hold of me about 3 or 4 years ago. Its happened a few times in the past two weeks when I woke up, that expanded experience felt like it didnt want to dissipate even though I was conscious. Like if I stay laying down, its like my mind is just getting sucked back into that experience. And when I am trying to activate myself for the day, i just have felt so dissociated from my body and mind and everything. Like some mornings I literally felt like I completely didnt exist internally, while obviously being conscious and doing things. The bliss was almost like nullifying the experience of my body, but not to the point I couldnt feel anything, everything was just like muted. Sometimes lately it feels as though there is cotton inside of my psyche and body, things dont feel as horrendously raw. There are other changes I feel, but I save it for another time and see how things continue for now. This post is getting long.
Also I am remembering St.Teresa talking about experiencing some higher states, but not even being entirely sure what she was experiencing. But coming back feeling the tremendous blessings imparted on her during the experience. I just need to find where that was.
Rougeleader
-
Hello Rougeleader,
There's a link to Teresa's full text here (https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/tic/index.htm) that I like to read from. It sounds like you are making great progress at the inner life and you should continue on what path you are on. :)
-
Good to see a post from you rougeleader115. It sounds like you are making excellent progress. I found keeping my mind still in the present moment and maintaining the charisms throughout the day helped me deepen my contemplative life, and increase the feeling of fulfillment.
-
Hello friends,
I come to you with a lot of joy in my heart. A state I have experienced hundreds if not thousands of times dropped on me so easily today I felt the need to explain. All i did was sit cross legged. I focused my attention on the ringing I always have in my ears. The bliss in my body steadily increased until my body was full and bursting with bliss. The wind in the trees all around me and blowing on my body, began to feel like it was blowing through my body. The sound of the trees started to sound like they were echoing inside of me. And then it dawned on me that all of these things were happening inside of my awareness and no where else. Everything i could percieve inside and outside of my body felt as though they were all in a single orb of my awareness. It was so incredibly blissful and relaxing, and it felt like the opening to a very deep level of meditation that I need to stay in for hours a day. As i have said, i have had this experience very very often, but this was just so easy and lucid, it feels so simple to access now. It felt like all i did was to quiet my mind of thoughts by focusing on an object of meditation , and sit with an intention of wanting to sit quietly with my “god,lord,universal...” whatever you want to say, i felt it as my lord, god, lover, and self. Everything else happened very quickly and naturally. Continued relaxation with sustained concentration on a meditation object. Best of luck my friends, I have been diving as deep as I can.
Rougeleader
-
Congratulations, Rougeleader, it sounds like you are making excellent progress in your contemplative life. Keep it up, go deeper, experience more bliss.
-
Hello friends,
I come to you with a lot of joy in my heart. A state I have experienced hundreds if not thousands of times dropped on me so easily today I felt the need to explain. All i did was sit cross legged. I focused my attention on the ringing I always have in my ears. The bliss in my body steadily increased until my body was full and bursting with bliss. The wind in the trees all around me and blowing on my body, began to feel like it was blowing through my body. The sound of the trees started to sound like they were echoing inside of me. And then it dawned on me that all of these things were happening inside of my awareness and no where else. Everything i could percieve inside and outside of my body felt as though they were all in a single orb of my awareness. It was so incredibly blissful and relaxing, and it felt like the opening to a very deep level of meditation that I need to stay in for hours a day. As i have said, i have had this experience very very often, but this was just so easy and lucid, it feels so simple to access now. It felt like all i did was to quiet my mind of thoughts by focusing on an object of meditation , and sit with an intention of wanting to sit quietly with my “god,lord,universal...” whatever you want to say, i felt it as my lord, god, lover, and self. Everything else happened very quickly and naturally. Continued relaxation with sustained concentration on a meditation object. Best of luck my friends, I have been diving as deep as I can.
Rougeleader
Im really happy to learn of you effortlessly dropping into deep meditative state. Cheers!
-
Hello friends,
I apologize for my continued absence from the forum. This really has been a transformational time in my life. The current is taking me deeper and I just want to ride with it for the time being. Please be well everyone, I will be back very soon. Ill be sure to check on the donations to see how I can help.
Rougeleader
-
Good to hear from you, Rougeleader. Good to know you are riding the current. Do give us a report from time to time.
-
I am glad you are doing well, Rougeleader. I would like to get back into meditating. I've been trying to do 2h/day but it's very difficult as my nervous system was damaged from the chemicals I was exposed to. Now when I lie down I get all these horrible sensations throughout my body. I used to enjoy feeling vibrations in my body haha, now I wish they'd just go away. :/ Well, it is the divine will. I don't understand the purpose of me being poisoned, or how this is supposed to improve my spiritual path, but we can only submit.
-
I don't recall where you live, but do you think that it is possible that your extended health problems might be due to air-pollution? Air pollution is really a global problem so places that traditionally have good quality air may have quite bad air now.
-
Ah Jeff I'm in Massachusetts. No, it's not a result of air quality. I was exposed to a mixture of toxic solvents via inhalation, while cleaning in a confined area. The most malicious probably being toluene. I am feeling a lot better compared to the ~4-5 months right after exposure. For example, I am able to sleep a united night's sleep now instead of those horrible 30 minute intervals. I also don't have the severe thinking issues / mood disorder that the chemicals induced for 2-3 months. But, I am still having issues with sleep, thinking, neuropathy, and dissociation.
Not a whole lot to do but keep going forward and hope for recovery. I suppose that previously the neuropathy was over my entire body, now it's mostly my lower legs, lower spine, and head. Perhaps by next year maybe there will be improvement. I know the nerves do grow (perhaps that will remediate whatever the chemicals did to disrupt them) but it takes a long time. It's a very malicious effect from cleaning for only 20 minutes though, hahaha.
-
Good luck with your healing, Alexander
-
I am sorry to hear about your continuing health issues related to that accident Alexander. I am not sure at all what exactly can help. But I am hoping you are able to fully recover.
I would say I have been on a sort of extended retreat while still living mostly “normal”. I dont have a job right now, and I got my degree last year or the year before, I can barely keep track. Im just here to share my recent insights these past two months diving deep.
I have had many experiences to seperate me from my body. I have had so many lucid experiences in the astral world that I have been able to isolate my awareness in my dreams by remembering those experiences as in depth as I can. This includes typing them in an app every morning and meditation. Now i can recognize fully how I am the same awareness that experiences those dreams. There are not many if any thoughts in the astral for me. And i am always at whats feels like hyper awareness or even the max of my senses and energy when I become lucid in a dream.
So I have been utilizing that state and “tuning in” to that in my conscious everyday life. It has dramatically increased my moment to moment awareness in daily life. And simultaneously, the charisms are going fucking insane! I feel crazy saying it on a public forum, but in real life I can barely keep my mouth shut about it. This energy is making me feel like a god!!! I truly starting to understand what this vessel is for. The transformation of lower energies through the “fire” of jhana, kundalini, holy spirit dah dah dah, into higher and higher places. It is the temple and tomb of the spirit. So the more i have stayed conscious of this physical plane to the degree that I experience in dreams, the more the charisms have increased, the lucidity in dreams has increased, and the more this life feels like any of those dreams.
Im going to stop there because I actually have to go for a walk before it gets dark. I have been injured and using a cane for a few weeks and been mostly bed bound. But I am finally getting back to normal.
Be well,
Rougeleader
-
Good to hear from you Rougeleader . It sounds like your contemplative life continues to bare fruit. Very good. I hope you recover from your injuries soon.
-
Thank you Jhanananda :D
I can feel my spirit/soul being put through a true initiation. I am finally feeling the true calling of the mystic in my whole soul. I don't feel like Im cultivating an experience as a contemplative. I am starting to feel the experience as my natural truth, calling and companion to my existence. The immaterial existence is opening itself to me. I feel the “Zen” in life, and the dragon’s serpent spirit rising over and over.
-
Yes, Rougeleader, when the contemplative has made sufficient progress, then the spirit takes over, and the body becomes a vessel. Just let it unfold naturally, if so it will deepen your bliss.
-
Hello Friends,
I am back simply to report a small bit of the last few months. Whatever process you want to call it is occurring in me. I will not detail everything, but I have been snatched up by the mystic stream. I can feel entities guiding me right to where I need to be, internally and externally. They are not doing the work but they are guiding my hand. It just feels like no matter what at this point, my life will be a continuing unfolding into the godhead. I just have to go down the stream.
Also work on your damn creativity, everyone! It is so necessary in unbinding the mind from this “linear” mundane “reality”.
Be Well
Rougeleader
-
Good to hear from you Rougeleader. It sounds like you are doing very well. Do, check in from time to time, and maybe engage in the dialog, if you are inclined.
-
Good to hear from you Rougeleader, and keep us posted. :D
-
Hello friends,
It is always good to come back to this forum and find rich dialogue on these subjects. Thank you all for having the strength to pursue and share the knowledge and experiences of the contemplative life. A very engaging summer I see. I hope all you are as well as can be.
Im just doing my usual check in. My distance from the forum has not been a reflection of my contemplative life. I am still doing the same and moving deeper as I have stated. Trying to shed myself until i can once again unify with the godhead. Everyday is just becoming a deep shedding and giving of myself in deeper layers to the heavenly bliss. The other day while very deep in meditation, i ended up in a peach colored scene with two giant flowery bulbs blooming over and over infinitely. The petals were like giant pillows falling around me and i felt so much peace and a heavenly feeling of shedding part of my usual identity. But with it came an almost unbearable pain in my heart, like true heartbreak, if you have felt it you know how physical it can feel.
I just couldn't help thinking of Teresa of Avila and her heart being pierced by angels. It literally felt like angels were raining so much love on me and accepted me so deeply that it broke my heart in comparison to what my life here has been. It was just like “oh, i dont have to hurt anymore like that?” and that experience alone brought tears running down my face during meditation.
I know i keep saying but I am trying to be more active here on the forum. I just truly am focusing so hard on bringing my contemplative life to true fruition.
Many blessings to you wonderful beings here, and as always so much love to you Jhanananda!
Rougeleader
-
It is always with great pleasure to receive an update on your progress, Rougeleader. I have been wondering about you, due to your long absence. Yes, the opening of the heart chakra can come with it so very much pain as we become aware of the collective suffering (dukkha). Eventually equanimity will have to arise, or otherwise we will be driven quite. So, keep up the good work.
-
Thank you so much Jhanananda. It has been trying getting used to a pretty much constant connection with the collective suffering. Especially during these times.
I have wanted to ask you again, even though i remember you telling me to continue to dip my toes in. Does the fear around the ego death experience dissolve as we keep experiencing it? Or is it always kind of jarring and tinged with fear?
I am having so much fear lately around the depth of my practice because it all feels so similar to the time in 2012 when I first experienced ego death. Ive been trying whole heartedly for years to release my fear around the experience, because I feel like I want it more than anything, but it was also the most terrifying thing still that I have ever experienced. No demon or nightmare keeps me up at night worse than the ego death i went through before experiencing a connection to the godhead. And feeling for months after like my consciousness just wanted to slip out of my body at any relaxation or automatic meditation on the body, breath and charisms.
I apologize for asking again because I have taken your advice very seriously that it takes time and it is just simply difficult sometimes shedding the layers of ones self. I just feel like Im hitting a wall in my own ability to truly let go and die to myself again. I dont even know how I managed to let go that deeply before, it feels beyond me.
Rougeleader
-
It is so good to hear from you again, Rougeleader. The topic of the ego death is one of the deepest topics covered in deep meditation. It has many layers to it, infact there are 8 layers to it. If we consider that the identity is not a single cognitive element, but a collection or fabric of cognitive elements, and if we understand that depth in meditation essentially is the process of dropping those cogntive constructs of identity, then we can understand that negotiating the 8 stages of samadhi involves 8 ego deaths.
These 8 ego deaths explains why so few ever traverse the 8 stages of the religious experience, and in part we can also understand why mystics are most often marginalized, because most people who experience any one of the 8 stages can come away terrified, and believe that they may have encountered the devil himself.
So, there are a number of ways to deal with the enherent terror of letting go of the identity. In Buddhism there is the refuge. Refuge is a submissive state on consciousness whereby we develop faith in the Noble Eightfold Path, which includes the 8 stages of samadhi. You could do some chanting before each meditation session, something like: "I take Refuge in the Buddha, I take refuge in the Dhamma, I take refuge in the samgha."
It just so happens that Islam has a very similar construct. After all Islam means, "to submit." The implicaiton in Islam is one is submitting to god. And, in Islam this is practiced everyday at noon in the form of bowing in prostrations. So, you could begin every meditation session with, "I sumit to god, etc." and you could do prostraations at that time if you are so inspired to do so.
In Christianity we have submission to god expressed as, "Thy will be done." So, you could try this methodology
After all what do we experience at the 8th samadhi? We experience dissolving into the collective consciousness of the universe, aka God. So, it might just take a few years of gettig used to letting go of your identity, but you benefit become evverything.
-
Thank you so much for the thoroughly thought out reply to my question. The various examples and religions give me plenty of options to investigate and surely will assist me. Really really appreciate the response!
-
You are welcome rougeleader115, it is always a pleasure to receive your enquiries here. Keep up the good work and do check in from time to time.
-
But it ended with the demon ordering the undead in the city to attack me. He also sent a kind of psychic wave of his face at me, and once it wrapped around me I could no longer fly like I was. The undead surrounded me and rip me to pieces rather quickly. Luckily my awareness switched to a 3rd person view just as they grabbed me and I did not have to experience it happening directly.
Hello Rogueleader, I've faced this myself with a similar phenomenon. I have entities sometimes "attack" or rather fly themselves at my face and they wrap around my head like a gust of wind hit me. I'm wondering what this form attack is or what it signifies.
-
I have had many of these events while out-of-body. I have found they are common when we remain on the earth plane level, and it occurs when the "people" we encounter there realize we are self-aware. For some reason this makes them feel threatened and attack the self-aware person out-of-body.
The solution is when out-of-body leave the earth plane and rise to higher domains, and/or do not attend to the shadows when out-of-body and instead attend to the light.
-
Hello friends,
I have been absolutely enthralled by the dialogue here on the forum the past few months. It is so nice to see deep questions being asked as well as everyone trying to figure out the nuances of the path and practice. I’m glad you are okay Jhanananda. Always giving us a scare.
I have been deep in my own practice the past few months, which is not to much different than usual. I just feel a drive in the core of my being now that doesn’t really let up. I only let up on the amount of hours I practice a day if the energy becomes too much for my psyche to sit with all day. But I have been feeling such a longing for union lately that it drives me almost to madness. I have no other way to describe it but I feel like I’m in the deepest love engagement of my life every day. Like I’m a teenager head over heels in love, but I know I’m in love with god. I just haven’t found my way back yet. I can just feel how if I don’t dedicate my whole self to this path, that it will really only be on me, because I was given a taste of godhood that most never even know exists. I also have been lucky enough to find Jhanananda which is a blessing in itself.
All day and night my body dances in various levels of bliss, and it still gets so intense at times I feel like I will die or go mad. But I know I won’t, or better, I’m learning to trust in the transformation and where it will lead. I just want the freedom from death and all else and the unconditional and infinite love I experienced again. I would die to. Even though I am still terrified to be fully annihilated. So my practice has simply intensified, and my life more and more molded to attaining that.
Still working on retaining my lucidity in my dreams. I have dreams every night, and record most of them. But I am only lucid once in a while when my practice is most intense. I usually then have a bad nightmare of things from my past or phobias. I can tell how my plane phobias and nightmares have progressed in ridiculous ways that it is obvious that my mind is trying to get over its fear of insane flight possibilities that are available once I am lucid in a dream. I have lucidly flown in my dreams more than a few times, but I can tell that my subconscious is still afraid to go above a certain height in the sky and go into space even though I’m honestly very excited to do so lol. I will just keep diving as deep as I can.
Best wishes
Rougeleader
-
Good to see, Rougeleader, you making such good progress. I find when I am in an OOBE and I encounter unpleasant beings or experiences all I need do is fly above it, and attend to the light not the shadows.
-
Thank you as always for the guidance Jhanananda.
-
You are welcome, Rougeleader. It always been inspiring to read of your progress.
-
Hello friends,
Shortly after my last post, around the middle of June, I laid down to meditate and thought out to myself asking any higher beings that wished to aide me on my journey to enlightenment to come forth. I have done this before, and had very positive results. But this time was very different.
A Native American male spirit has shown himself to me every now and again over the years in my dreams when my practice is most intense and my dreams are consistently lucid. Well I was lucidly traveling in the woods with a group of college kids, and some energy pulled my attention to the edge of a tree line and there he was looking at me. Then he skipped a few times and started flying with his chest just a few feet above the ground into the woods. I thought to myself, oh I’m dreaming!, and started to fly after him. Once I got through the woods, I saw him standing at a ledge by an ocean.
As I approached him, I had a premonition of him meditating before this massive black and purple crystal. Easily the size of a two story house. Purple energy was spiraling into him and he was obviously on his knees out of body communing with the crystal. He then levitated and merged into the crystal.
As I came back from the premonition, I went to stand beside him and look out at the ocean. But the moment I did, he did something I have never experienced in all of my lucid dreams. He grabbed me by this purple spirit energy that was inside of my dream body. It was like being awake and having some grab you by the neck and somehow making you immediately enter an out of body experience, but I was already in an out of body experience! He took my spirit body energy and hurled me into sky towards the giant black and purple crystal in the sky. So much panic as I tried to fathom how he grabbed my spirit body and manipulated beyond my intention. I soared in the sky to crystal, and as I was about to hit it, a portal opened at my feet and pulled me through.
I went through a black tunnel at what I can only describe as light speed and beyornd. There were many colorful energies in the black, including very bright pink ink like splatters. But more important than that was the speed, it was so fast that I felt all that I consider my spirit self got stretched and flattened to the point I was like oh shit I’m dying! And I had to let go and get spread all the way out till I was unconscious.
I awoke on a beach to a giant beautiful goddess coming down from the clouds over an ocean. As she saw me, she stretched over the whole ocean she was so massive. I started to get afraid simply from the magnitude and fast movement. Her body started to rot, and turn black and scaled. Her teeth got sharp, the sky got dark, black tarry tentacles started to emerge from her body and the world. Drool starting to drip, sour putrid smells intensifying. Everything just kept getting worse and worse so fast that I could barely process anything but the intensifying fear and horror of the whole experience.
Just as she was going to grab me and obviously consume me in her dark world, something in me clicked so hard. I just felt without a doubt that everything was intensifying directly from my subconscious fear of the experience. So as it got worse, my mind felt worse, making more tentacles, more teeth, more rot. And in that moment, I threw from the deepest part of myself two giant heart stickers right onto the beastly goddess. She immediately transformed into a giant blue goddesss sitting on an entire planet that I watched from black space as awareness. The planet had hearts and clouds all over swirling in love, and she laid at the top with the heart stickers adorning her cheeks.
I woke up after that and of course had a spiritual crisis for a week or two. It was definitely an initiation of some sort also because a tremendous amount of trauma in my body and mind has been continuously flushed out over the last two months. My body and mind are becoming so unbelievably soft, concentrated, and full of energy that I have no other interpretation. I have entered whatever next phase for my spiritual journey. I do believe soon my lucidity will increase massively in the coming months because I was I was not cognizant how much trauma was still in my legs and upper back. But it is all loosening and filling with energy. It’s like all the kinks are being undone, and the energy is filling every conceivable part of my nervous system and body.
Best Wishes,
Rougeleader
-
‘To eat and be eaten!’
Thank you for sharing the transcendental experiences as always, Rougeleader :)
By the way, what is your name?
-
😂 i thank you for the quote Alexander lol.
I will send you my name in a PM right now.
-
Excellent progress Rougeleader. No matter how scary these OOBEs get just keep moving forward.
-
Hello friends,
I have made the transition to a new living space over the past few months. It has been quite a difficult but empowering process. My dog has been dying slowly for the past year, and we are now at weekly vet visits which is a stress in itself. But he honestly deserves it for being so good to me through all of the darkest points of my life so far. I have actually been going through a lot in terms of death, old age and sickness in my life for the past few years. I’m very grateful for my contemplative life at times like this.
Besides all that, I am currently getting lucid enough to know I am dreaming at least 2-3 times a week. I still dream every night and journal most of them. I am also more often falling asleep while meditating, and realizing right away that I am dreaming while still being in the bed. This compared to having a strange occurrence in the dream making me realize it. My meditative practices are also the foundation of how I stay lucid and present in a lucid dream. I may hold a hand mudra or object, stand in any variation of yoga poses, focus on my breath, or focusing on the blissful swirling energy I feel as “me”, especially if I have no body. This all occurs while I am lucidly dreaming and feels exactly the same as real life, except the energy is often far more intense.
For the past year since that Native American man experience, it has felt like a whole dragons worth of energy is waking up through my entire body. I train 2-3 hours of yoga and martial arts literally almost everyday because that seems to be the only thing that can ease it enough for me to integrate and sleep. Otherwise I feel like I’m a constant nova explosion. I still do most times anyway and it can make me worn out or anxious. Like a few years ago I would describe my internal state as a whirlwind. But now it feels like there is a black hole in my head, a star in my chest, and a dark moving universe in my belly.
St Catherine of Genoa’s books have been a most lovely experience to revisit these past few months. I’m not sure why but I really really relate to her and St.Teresa of Avila’s expression of experiencing these energies and feelings.
I hope you are all well, I just wanted to check in.
-
Hello friends,
I have made the transition to a new living space over the past few months. It has been quite a difficult but empowering process. My dog has been dying slowly for the past year, and we are now at weekly vet visits which is a stress in itself. But he honestly deserves it for being so good to me through all of the darkest points of my life so far. I have actually been going through a lot in terms of death, old age and sickness in my life for the past few years. I’m very grateful for my contemplative life at times like this.
It is so good to hear from you again, rougeleader115. Yes, awareness of the impermanence of the material life I find is a critical step in our spiritual growth, when we realize that since the material life is impermanent there is no reason to obsess over the material life, and it is therefore at least pragmatic to prepare for the spiritual life.
Besides all that, I am currently getting lucid enough to know I am dreaming at least 2-3 times a week. I still dream every night and journal most of them. I am also more often falling asleep while meditating, and realizing right away that I am dreaming while still being in the bed. This compared to having a strange occurrence in the dream making me realize it. My meditative practices are also the foundation of how I stay lucid and present in a lucid dream. I may hold a hand mudra or object, stand in any variation of yoga poses, focus on my breath, or focusing on the blissful swirling energy I feel as “me”, especially if I have no body. This all occurs while I am lucidly dreaming and feels exactly the same as real life, except the energy is often far more intense.
Gaining lucidity in your dream state is a good sign that you are growing in your spiritual life. And, I found journaling my dreams was a significant aide in gaining lucidity. It sounds like you are meditating while lying down waiting for sleep. I have done this for 50 years. I found it a valuable spiritual activity for a number of reasons, increasing lucidity in the sleep space is certainly a significant aspect of this practice.
For the past year since that Native American man experience, it has felt like a whole dragons worth of energy is waking up through my entire body. I train 2-3 hours of yoga and martial arts literally almost everyday because that seems to be the only thing that can ease it enough for me to integrate and sleep. Otherwise I feel like I’m a constant nova explosion. I still do most times anyway and it can make me worn out or anxious. Like a few years ago I would describe my internal state as a whirlwind. But now it feels like there is a black hole in my head, a star in my chest, and a dark moving universe in my belly.
It sounds like you have developed access to spiritual energy, which was called 'viru' in the Pali Canon, which is related to the English term 'virtue',' which historically referred to both an abstract energy, and the 7 virtues, or ethics.
St Catherine of Genoa’s books have been a most lovely experience to revisit these past few months. I’m not sure why but I really really relate to her and St.Teresa of Avila’s expression of experiencing these energies and feelings.
I hope you are all well, I just wanted to check in.
I'm not sure if I read any of St Catherine of Genoa's books. Please let us know what you get from her writing. If you are finding something in her writing, then it sounds like we all should spend some time reading her work.
-
As always it is good to hear from you also Jhanananda! I know I have said this elsewhere, but you really are the spiritual father of my life. I don’t mean to sound cheesy, I just want you to know, because life is so fleeting.
As for St. Catherine of Genoa, I found her when listening to some audiobooks of St teresa years ago of LibriVox. The woman who did St Teresa’s readings only had a few other books at the time and some of them were by St. Catherine.
Here is a small except about her:
Saint Catherine of Genoa (Caterina Fieschi Adorno, born Genoa 1447 – 15 September 1510) is an Italian Roman Catholic saint and mystic, admired for her work among the sick and the poor. She was a member of the noble Fieschi family, and spent most of her life and her means serving the sick, especially during the plague which ravaged Genoa in 1497 and 1501. She died in that city in 1510.
In 1551, 41 years after her death, a book about her life and teaching was published, entitled Libro de la vita mirabile et dottrina santa de la Beata Caterinetta de Genoa. This is the source of her "Dialogues on the Soul and the Body" and her "Treatise on Purgatory", which are often printed separately. Her authorship of these has been denied, and it used to be thought that another mystic, the Augustinian canoness Battistina Vernazza, who lived in a monastery in Genoa from 1510 till her death in 1587 had edited the two works, a suggestion discredited by recent scholarship, which attributes a large part of both works to St Catherine, though they received their final literary form only after her death.
In the first part of the Spiritual Dialogue, St. Catherine relates in what manner she was captivated by worldly allurements, and how, from this state, she was entirely converted to God, and devoted herself to austere works of penance. In the second, she describes the sublime perfection of the spiritual life in which she is engaged. In the third, she discourses of the divine love and of its wonderful effects, and how she has experienced them all in herself. (Summary by Wikipedia and Introduction)
Here is a link to one of the audiobooks:
https://librivox.org/spiritual-dialogue-by-saint-catherine-of-genoa/
Her talks about being so divinely enraptured by by love and fiery passion are the things that hit me most. Being so deeply communed with the divine that one finds one’s own face is the same face of god. And being dissolved over and over throughout her life to find ever deepening layers of love and infinity that confound her. Some of her descriptions sound artistically dramatic or simply poetic. But I find very often that the words she uses to describe her experience are the same ones I would without question. We just don’t live in a time where I can use the language she does without sounding hyper religious or downright crazy. But she does describe it very well. I can’t say she mentions the “stages” per se, but her expression brings layers to her religious experience, from the mundane all the way to rapture.
I hope you all can find any other information to help define where she sits mystically.
Thank you
-
As always it is good to hear from you also Jhanananda! I know I have said this elsewhere, but you really are the spiritual father of my life. I don’t mean to sound cheesy, I just want you to know, because life is so fleeting.
Thank you for expressing your kind thoughts. I am so glad that I have provided you some inspiration to lead a fruitful interior life.
As for St. Catherine of Genoa, I found her when listening to some audiobooks of St teresa years ago of LibriVox. The woman who did St Teresa’s readings only had a few other books at the time and some of them were by St. Catherine.
Here is a small except about her:
Saint Catherine of Genoa (Caterina Fieschi Adorno, born Genoa 1447 – 15 September 1510) is an Italian Roman Catholic saint and mystic, admired for her work among the sick and the poor. She was a member of the noble Fieschi family, and spent most of her life and her means serving the sick, especially during the plague which ravaged Genoa in 1497 and 1501. She died in that city in 1510.
In 1551, 41 years after her death, a book about her life and teaching was published, entitled Libro de la vita mirabile et dottrina santa de la Beata Caterinetta de Genoa. This is the source of her "Dialogues on the Soul and the Body" and her "Treatise on Purgatory", which are often printed separately. Her authorship of these has been denied, and it used to be thought that another mystic, the Augustinian canoness Battistina Vernazza, who lived in a monastery in Genoa from 1510 till her death in 1587 had edited the two works, a suggestion discredited by recent scholarship, which attributes a large part of both works to St Catherine, though they received their final literary form only after her death.
In the first part of the Spiritual Dialogue, St. Catherine relates in what manner she was captivated by worldly allurements, and how, from this state, she was entirely converted to God, and devoted herself to austere works of penance. In the second, she describes the sublime perfection of the spiritual life in which she is engaged. In the third, she discourses of the divine love and of its wonderful effects, and how she has experienced them all in herself. (Summary by Wikipedia and Introduction)
Here is a link to one of the audiobooks:
https://librivox.org/spiritual-dialogue-by-saint-catherine-of-genoa/
Her talks about being so divinely enraptured by by love and fiery passion are the things that hit me most. Being so deeply communed with the divine that one finds one’s own face is the same face of god. And being dissolved over and over throughout her life to find ever deepening layers of love and infinity that confound her. Some of her descriptions sound artistically dramatic or simply poetic. But I find very often that the words she uses to describe her experience are the same ones I would without question. We just don’t live in a time where I can use the language she does without sounding hyper religious or downright crazy. But she does describe it very well. I can’t say she mentions the “stages” per se, but her expression brings layers to her religious experience, from the mundane all the way to rapture.
I hope you all can find any other information to help define where she sits mystically.
Thank you
Thank you for posting your review of St. Catherine of Genoa. I plan to invest some time in the study of her writing.=, as I expect others here will as well.