Author Topic: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs  (Read 14795 times)

Jhanananda

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Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« on: November 01, 2015, 01:32:09 AM »
I do not unpack belief systems just to annoy people, but I do so because our belief systems can undermine our contemplative life.  This thread is unpacking a belief in Ancient Astronauts, Space Aliens and UFOs.

Premises:

1] Life exists on this planet.

2] Life will arise in the universe wherever the conditions for life arise.

3] Life will evolve wherever the conditions for life persist long enough.

4] The galaxy that our solar system resides on the edge of has uncountable star systems.  The universe has uncountable galaxies.  Therefore, there are uncountable planets with the conditions for life to arise.

5] The above four premises serves as clear and incontrovertible proof that life exists elsewhere in the universe.

6]  However, the laws of physics as we know them precludes the option for intelligent, tool-making, life forms to transport themselves in a reasonable amount of time to visit other solar systems, let alone other galaxies.

Therefore, the reported alien spacecraft and UFOs are most probably one of the following: misinterpreted natural phenomena, such as meteors or lightning; or a hoax; or a cover for illegal activity, such as smuggling; or secret experimental aircraft operated by one or more nations.

secret experimental aircraft that have been traditionally misinterpreted as alien spacecraft and UFOs:

Quote from: wiki
An unidentified flying object, or UFO, in its most general definition, is any apparent anomaly in the sky that is not identifiable as a known object or phenomenon. Culturally, UFOs are associated with claims of visitation by extraterrestrial life or government-related conspiracy theories, and have become popular subjects in fiction. While UFOs are often later identified, sometimes identification may not be possible owing to the usually low quality of evidence related to UFO sightings (generally anecdotal evidence and eyewitness accounts).

Stories of fantastical celestial apparitions have been told since antiquity, but the term "UFO" (or "UFOB") was officially created in 1953 by the United States Air Force (USAF) to serve as a catch-all for all such reports. In its initial definition, the USAF stated that a "UFOB" was "any airborne object which by performance, aerodynamic characteristics, or unusual features, does not conform to any presently known aircraft or missile type, or which cannot be positively identified as a familiar object." Accordingly, the term was initially restricted to those fraction of cases which remained unidentified after investigation, as the USAF was interested in potential national security reasons and/or "technical aspects" (see Air Force Regulation 200-2).

During the late 1940s and through the 1950s, UFOs were often referred to popularly as "flying saucers" or "flying discs". The term UFO became more widespread during the 1950s, at first in technical literature, but later in popular use. UFOs garnered considerable interest during the Cold War, an era associated with a heightened concern for national security. Various studies have concluded that the phenomenon does not represent a threat to national security nor does it contain anything worthy of scientific pursuit (e.g., 1951 Flying Saucer Working Party, 1953 CIA Robertson Panel, USAF Project Blue Book, Condon Committee).

The triangular shaped "UFO" is a stealth aircraft that is being misinterpreted as an alien space ship. 


Quote from: wiki
Stealth technology also termed LO technology (low observable technology) is a sub-discipline of military tactics and passive electronic countermeasures,[1] which cover a range of techniques used with personnel, aircraft, ships, submarines, missiles and satellites to make them less visible (ideally invisible) to radar, infrared,[2] sonar and other detection methods. It corresponds to military camouflage for these parts of the electromagnetic spectrum (Multi-spectral camouflage).

Development of modern stealth technologies in the United States began in 1958,[3][4] where earlier attempts in preventing radar tracking of its U-2 spy planes during the Cold War by the Soviet Union had been unsuccessful.[5] Designers turned to develop a particular shape for planes that tended to reduce detection, by redirecting electromagnetic waves from radars.[6] Radar-absorbent material was also tested and made to reduce or block radar signals that reflect off from the surface of planes. Such changes to shape and surface composition form stealth technology as currently used on the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit "Stealth Bomber".[4]

I recall many UFO reports from New Mexico in the 60s described these objects as "upside down flying bathtubs" or "beetles."  It just so happens that NASA was experimenting with the lifting body aircraft design, as a precursor to the shuttle.

Quote from: wiki
A lifting body is a fixed-wing aircraft or spacecraft configuration in which the body itself produces lift. In contrast to a flying wing, which is a wing with minimal or no conventional fuselage, a lifting body can be thought of as a fuselage with little or no conventional wing. Whereas a flying wing seeks to maximize cruise efficiency at subsonic speeds by eliminating non-lifting surfaces, lifting bodies generally minimize the drag and structure of a wing for subsonic, supersonic, and hypersonic flight, or, spacecraft re-entry. All of these flight regimes pose challenges for proper flight safety.

Lifting bodies were a major area of research in the 1960s and 70s as a means to build a small and lightweight manned spacecraft. The US built a number of lifting body rocket planes to test the concept, as well as several rocket-launched re-entry vehicles that were tested over the Pacific. Interest waned as the US Air Force lost interest in the manned mission, and major development ended during the Space Shuttle design process when it became clear that the highly shaped fuselages made it difficult to fit fuel tankage.
UFOs used to be seen as flying saucers when both the USA and Russia were experimenting with saucer-shaped experimental aircraft. 

Quote from: wiki
A circular wing is a disc shaped wing having the outer planform of a circle.[1] If the aircraft has no fuselage or tail the disc-shaped aircraft is sometimes described as a flying saucer. If the entire disc rotates it is called a disc wing. Disc-shaped aircraft development dates back to before World War II. A number of disc-shaped aircraft have been proposed over the years, and a few have been built.

Quote from: wiki
Studies

Studies have established that the majority of UFO observations are misidentified conventional objects or natural phenomena—most commonly aircraft, balloons, noctilucent clouds, nacreous clouds, or astronomical objects such as meteors or bright planets with a small percentage even being hoaxes.[note 1] Between 5% and 20% of reported sightings are not explained, and therefore can be classified as unidentified in the strictest sense. While proponents of the extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH) suggest that these unexplained reports are of alien spacecraft, the null hypothesis cannot be excluded that these reports are simply other more prosaic phenomena that cannot be identified due to lack of complete information or due to the necessary subjectivity of the reports.

While UFOs have been the subject of extensive investigation by various governments and although a few scientists have supported the extraterrestrial hypothesis, almost no scientific papers about UFOs have been published in peer-reviewed journals.[7] There was, in the past, some debate in the scientific community about whether any scientific investigation into UFO sightings is warranted with the general conclusion being that the phenomenon was not worthy of serious investigation beyond a cultural artifact.

Early history

Unexplained aerial observations have been reported throughout history. Some were undoubtedly astronomical in nature: comets, bright meteors, one or more of the five planets that can be seen with the naked eye, planetary conjunctions, or atmospheric optical phenomena such as parhelia and lenticular clouds. An example is Halley's Comet, which was recorded first by Chinese astronomers in 240 BC and possibly as early as 467 BC. Such sightings throughout history often were treated as supernatural portents, angels, or other religious omens. Some current-day UFO researchers have noticed similarities between some religious symbols in medieval paintings and UFO reports[19] though the canonical and symbolic character of such images is documented by art historians placing more conventional religious interpretations on such images.[20]

    On January 25, 1878, the Denison Daily News printed an article in which John Martin, a local farmer, had reported seeing a large, dark, circular object resembling a balloon flying "at wonderful speed." Martin, according to the newspaper account, said it appeared to be about the size of a saucer, the first known use of the word "saucer" in association with a UFO.[21]
    In April 1897 thousands of people reported seeing "airships" in various parts of the United States. Many signed affidavits. Scores of people even reported talking to the pilots. Thomas Edison was asked his opinion, and said, "You can take it from me that it is a pure fake."[22][23]

The above reports are clearly hot air balloons.

Quote
The hot air balloon is the oldest successful human-carrying flight technology. The first hot-air balloon flown in the United States was launched from the Walnut Street Jail in Philadelphia on January 9, 1793 by the French aeronaut Jean Pierre Blanchard. The first untethered manned hot air balloon flight was performed by Jean-François Pilâtre de Rozier and François Laurent d'Arlandes on November 21, 1783, in Paris, France,[1] in a balloon created by the Montgolfier brothers.[2]

Quote from: wiki
    On February 28, 1904, there was a sighting by three crew members on the USS Supply 300 miles (483 km) west of San Francisco, reported by Lieutenant Frank Schofield, later to become Commander-in-Chief of the Pacific Battle Fleet. Schofield wrote of three bright red egg-shaped and circular objects flying in echelon formation that approached beneath the cloud layer, then changed course and "soared" above the clouds, departing directly away from the earth after two to three minutes. The largest had an apparent size of about six Suns, he said.[24][25]
    The three earliest known pilot UFO sightings, of 1,305 similar sitings cataloged by NARCAP, took place in 1916 and 1926. On January 31, 1916, a UK pilot near Rochford reported a row of lights, resembling lighted windows on a railway carriage, that rose and disappeared. In January 1926 a pilot reported six "flying manhole covers" between Wichita, Kansas, and Colorado Springs, Colorado. In late September 1926 an airmail pilot over Nevada said he had been forced to land by a huge, wingless, cylindrical object.[26]
    On August 5, 1926, while traveling in the Humboldt Mountains of Tibet's Kokonor region, Russian explorer Nicholas Roerich reported, members of his expedition saw "something big and shiny reflecting the sun, like a huge oval moving at great speed. Crossing our camp the thing changed in its direction from south to southwest. And we saw how it disappeared in the intense blue sky. We even had time to take our field glasses and saw quite distinctly an oval form with shiny surface, one side of which was brilliant from the sun."[27] Another description by Roerich was of a "shiny body flying from north to south. Field glasses are at hand. It is a huge body. One side glows in the sun. It is oval in shape. Then it somehow turns in another direction and disappears in the southwest."[28]

These sightings above were most probably airships.

Quote from: wiki
An airship or dirigible is a type of aerostat or lighter-than-air aircraft that can navigate through the air under its own power.[1] Aerostats gain their lift from large gas bags filled with a lifting gas that is less dense than the surrounding air.

A few airships have been metal-clad, with rigid and nonrigid examples made. Each kind used a thin gastight metal envelope, rather than the usual rubber-coated fabric envelope. Only four metal-clad ships are known to have been built, and only two actually flew: Schwarz's first aluminum rigid airship of 1893 collapsed,[15] while his second flew;[16] the nonrigid ZMC-2 built for the US Navy flew from 1929 to 1941 when it was scrapped as too small for operational use on anti-submarine patrols;[17] while the 1929 nonrigid Slate Aircraft Corporation City of Glendale collapsed on its first flight attempt.[18][19] Both nonrigid ships nevertheless had strong metal monocoque envelopes which, while they maintained their shape uninflated, required an overpressure during flight.

Quote from: wiki
     In the Pacific and European theatres during World War II, "foo fighters" (metallic spheres, balls of light and other shapes that followed aircraft) were reported and on occasion photographed by Allied and Axis pilots. Some proposed Allied explanations at the time included St. Elmo's fire, the planet Venus, hallucinations from oxygen deprivation, or German secret weapons.[29][30]

Quote from: wiki
St. Elmo's fire (also St. Elmo's light[1][2]) is a weather phenomenon in which luminous plasma is created by a corona discharge from a sharp or pointed object in a strong electric field in the atmosphere (such as those generated by thunderstorms or created by a volcanic eruption or coronal mass ejections of the sun).

St. Elmo's fire is named after St. Erasmus of Formia (also called St. Elmo, one of the two Italian names for St. Erasmus, the other being St. Erasmo), the patron saint of sailors. The phenomenon sometimes appeared on ships at sea during thunderstorms and was regarded by sailors with religious awe for its glowing ball of light, accounting for the name.[3] Sailors may have considered St. Elmo's fire as a good omen (as in, a sign of the presence of their patron saint).[4]

Quote from: wiki
    In 1946 more than 2,000 reports were collected, primarily by the Swedish military, of unidentified aerial objects over the Scandinavian nations, along with isolated reports from France, Portugal, Italy and Greece. The objects were referred to as "Russian hail" and later as "ghost rockets" because it was thought that the mysterious objects were possibly Russian tests of captured German V1 or V2 rockets. Although most were thought to be such natural phenomena as meteors, more than 200 were tracked on radar by the Swedish military and deemed to be "real physical objects." In a 1948 top secret document, Swedish authorities advised the USAF Europe that some of their investigators believed these craft to be extraterrestrial in origin.[31]

It was often cigar-shaped UFOs in the 40s, when Britain, Germany, the USA, Russia, and other countries were experimenting with cigar-shaped experimental aircraft, such as rockets.

Quote from: wiki
A rocket (Italian rocchetta‚ "little fuse"[1][2]) is a missile, spacecraft, aircraft or other vehicle that obtains thrust from a rocket engine. Rocket engine exhaust is formed entirely from propellant carried within the rocket before use.[3] Rocket engines work by action and reaction and push rockets forward simply by expelling their exhaust in the opposite direction at high speed, and can therefore work in space.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 02:30:48 AM by Jhanananda »
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Re: Space Aliens and UFOs
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2015, 02:02:01 AM »
The central problem with the Space Alien hypothesis is that it tends to be a mask for atheism, in which the religious/spiritual experience is presumed to be just a misunderstood encounter with Space Aliens.  The Space Alien abduction is an example of this.  In fact what I find in the cases of "Alien abduction" that I have read is a misunderstood OOBE.  In fact under "Paranormal" you will see that a significant number of abductees manifest Paranormal abilities following their "abduction."  The question worth asking, which I do not believe was asked, "How many of these abductees practiced meditation, or took psychedelics, prior to their abduction experience."

Quote from: wiki
The terms alien abduction or abduction phenomenon describe "subjectively real memories of being taken secretly against one's will by apparently nonhuman entities and subjected to complex physical and psychological procedures".[1] People claiming to have been abducted are usually called "abductees"[2] or "experiencers".

Due to a lack of objective physical evidence, most scientists and mental health professionals dismiss the phenomenon as "deception, suggestibility (fantasy-proneness, hypnotizability, false memory syndrome), personality, sleep paralysis, psychopathology, psychodynamics [and] environmental factors".[3] Skeptic Robert Sheaffer sees similarity between the aliens depicted in early science fiction films, in particular, Invaders From Mars, and some of those reported to have actually abducted people.[4]

Typical claims involve being subjected to a forced medical examination that emphasizes their reproductive system.[clarification needed][5] Abductees sometimes claim to have been warned against environmental abuse and the dangers of nuclear weapons.[6] While many of these claimed encounters are described as terrifying, some have been viewed as pleasurable or transformative.

The first alleged alien abduction claim to be widely publicized was the Betty and Barney Hill abduction in 1961.[7] Reports of the abduction phenomenon have been made around the world, but are most common in English speaking countries, especially the United States.[4] The contents of the abduction narrative often seem to vary with the home culture of the alleged abductee.[4]

Alien abductions have been the subject of conspiracy theories and science fiction storylines (notably The X-Files) that have speculated on stealth technology required if the phenomenon were real, the motivations for secrecy, and that alien implants could be a possible form of physical evidence.

Overview
Mainstream scientists reject claims that the phenomenon literally occurs as reported. However, there is little doubt that many apparently stable persons who report alien abductions believe their experiences were real. As reported in the Harvard University Gazette in 1992, Dr. John E. Mack investigated over 800 claimed abductees and "spent countless therapeutic hours with these individuals only to find that what struck him was the 'ordinariness' of the population, including a restaurant owner, several secretaries, a prison guard, college students, a university administrator, and several homemakers ... 'The majority of abductees do not appear to be deluded, confabulating, lying, self-dramatizing, or suffering from a clear mental illness,' he maintained."[9] "While psychopathology is indicated in some isolated alien abduction cases," Stuart Appelle et al. confirmed, "assessment by both clinical examination and standardized tests has shown that, as a group, abduction experients are not different from the general population in term of psychopathology prevalence."[10] Other experts who have argued that abductees' mental health is no better or worse than average include psychologists John Wilson and Rima Laibow, and psychotherapist David Gotlib.[11]

Some abduction reports are quite detailed. An entire subculture has developed around the subject, with support groups and a detailed mythos explaining the reasons for abductions: The various aliens (Greys, Reptilians, "Nordics" and so on) are said to have specific roles, origins, and motivations. Abduction claimants do not always attempt to explain the phenomenon, but some take independent research interest in it themselves and explain the lack of greater awareness of alien abduction as the result of either extraterrestrial or governmental interest in cover-up. Mack has cited more mundane reasons for the lack of general awareness concerning the data: "The most intense demand for alternative explanations tends to come from those who are either unfamiliar with the rich complexity of the abduction phenomenon, or from those who are so wedded to a worldview" that they find the phenomenon prima facie unacceptable.[12]

History
Main article: History of alien abduction claims

The Antonio Vilas Boas case (1957) and the Hill abduction (1961) were the first cases of UFO abduction to earn widespread attention.

Though these two cases are sometimes viewed as the earliest abductions, skeptic Peter Rogerson[13] notes they were only the first "canonical"[clarification needed] abduction cases, establishing a template that later abductees and researchers would refine but rarely deviate from. Additionally, Rogerson notes purported abductions were cited contemporaneously at least as early as 1954, and that "the growth of the abduction stories is a far more tangled affair than the 'entirely unpredisposed' official history would have us believe." (The phrase "entirely unpredisposed" appeared in folklorist Thomas E. Bullard's study of alien abduction; he argued that alien abductions as reported in the 1970s and 1980s had little precedent in folklore or fiction.)

Paranormal

Alleged abductees are seen by many pro-abduction researchers to have a higher incidence of non-abduction related paranormal events and abilities.[26] Following an abduction experience, these paranormal abilities and occurrences sometimes seem to become more pronounced.[26] According to investigator Benton Jamison, abduction experiencers who report UFO sightings that should have been, but are not, reported by independent corroborating witnesses often seem to "be 'psychic personalities' in the sense of Jan Ehrenwald."[26] Psychic Medium Danielle Egnew recounted multiple abduction experiences in her 2012 book True Tales of the Truly Weird, greatly detailing communication, technology and abduction methods of more than one alien race.[27]
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 02:34:36 AM by Jhanananda »
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Re: Space Aliens and UFOs
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2015, 02:10:59 AM »
The typical argument for the existence of Space Aliens and UFOs is the construction of the Great Pyramids, and other monoliths of the world, which are argued to be a task that could not be done today, and therefore must have been executed by Space Aliens in the past. 

However, if you examine the Wiki on the List of largest monoliths in the world you will find larger stones than those that made up the Great Pyramids have been moved in historic times, and they were well documented.

The largest recorded moved monolith is the The 1,250 ton heavy Thunder Stone in Saint Petersburg. On top is an equestrian statue of Peter the Great, which was erected in 1770, which is the pre-industrial era, so the only machines that would have moved this monolith would have been nothing more than rollers, block and tackle, and wheels, which are technologies that are likely to have been employed by other monolith movers of the past.
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Alexander

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Re: Space Aliens and UFOs
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2015, 02:24:32 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0lS9ao0s6w

Been watching some of this guy today. This video here is really interesting, and repeats anything I'd expect to hear in your videos, Jeffrey. However, check out his other content. He has some pretty eccentric beliefs, in aliens and implants, and is charging quite a bit to people on his site. What's your verdict on him? The first video would have had me convinced he was the real deal - keep in mind I didn't discover him based on intuition or anything - or is it possible to head OOB and still be unenlightened/delusional?
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2015, 01:54:38 PM »
Hello Alexander, I found the video Basic Oobe Techniques and Strategies for Getting Out of Body seemed like Rich2150x understood the OOBE, and his other titles suggested that he has spent some time developing the stilling of the mind, and developing the OOBE.  On the other hand, his belief that he has had an alien abduction suggests that he has confused at least one OOBE with an alien abduction.  Why even invoke the alien abduction, and Mind Implants and Reptilian Entities, Greys, and other ETs?  Also, there is nothing in his videos that I found that suggest that he was free of addictive behavior, or had found a lifestyle that freed him from addictive behavior.  So, my conclusion is, he is well ahead of mainstream thinking, but he has not penetrated his delusions sufficiently to argue that he is "enlightened" or "liberated."

Since we are on the topic of the OOBE and Space Aliens and UFOs, then I will say that I have had many OOBEs in which I encountered intelligent life forms that resided on other planets, and even traveled through space in space ships; however, one must understand that the OOBE takes us into the immaterial domains, so that it is more a reflection of the "collective unconscious" than it is a reflection of the material domain.

Since several alien abductees claim to have developed the OOBE, and other paranormal abilities, then I believe that it is reasonable to conclude that most of the alien abductee reports may very well be a misinterpreted OOBE.  Also, since Rich2150x, and other alien abductees, have also documented meditation techniques and some of the other superior fruit of the contemplative life, then we can also conclude that at least some of the alien abductees may very well have developed a contemplative life prior to having an "alien abduction" experience, as well as developing the OOBE and the other superior fruit of the contemplative life.  Thus, the over all conclusion that we can advance is most of these alien abductees are still suffering from delusional thinking; even if they have developed a contemplative life that has born some of the superior fruit.
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Re: Space Aliens and UFOs
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2015, 01:30:23 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0lS9ao0s6w

Been watching some of this guy today. This video here is really interesting, and repeats anything I'd expect to hear in your videos, Jeffrey. However, check out his other content. He has some pretty eccentric beliefs, in aliens and implants, and is charging quite a bit to people on his site. What's your verdict on him? The first video would have had me convinced he was the real deal - keep in mind I didn't discover him based on intuition or anything - or is it possible to head OOB and still be unenlightened/delusional?

It seems to me that his fantastical experiences have only served in developing another addiction. Another identity, ego, or sense of self. I probably spent 5 hours or more listening to him, and I seen some good indications as to what is possible with myself if I am not fully aware of the Buddhist teachings.

In some of his videos he vocally argues with his conscious thought. His methods, albeit conveyed differently, are one and the same that i feel and/or experience in my own progression through meditative depth. Even some of his practices. His emmulation of meditative awareness with eyes open being fully aware of a visual object in front of him, the way that he processed this experience, and then encorporates it into his falling asleep "meditation" is something I found to be correct. I also found it interesting how he explained that this sort of "re-connection" with the spiritual self can emulate past life-times, and force one to relive them, or at least bring them to the surface to be viewed. Simply he described the "eye-open" meditation as a trigger to recalling a past lifetime where one had died, but was still in the physical body whos eyes were still open.

I might add that throughout listening to him, I became aware of something clawing at a depth within me that I do not understand. I attempt to simplify and reason; understand. I believe this individual has only scratched the smallest depth of the immaterial experience. I do not know why I feel this way, I just do. I am left with feeling that our purpose is not only to become fully aware of the spirit, in the sense that it is separate from the body almost wholly when one reaches the 4th Jhana, and then leaves the body in the 5th and has a good time. I think this is partly due to my own experiences with leaving the body of the body, that had previously left the physical body.

Thank you for sharing this Alexander. While I do not see this individual as a "master" if you will, I could call him a brother, and there are things that could be learned from him, so long as I keep mindful that my own view and trusts lie in Buddhist concepts. I think one could easily get caught up in the mess the man himself is in.

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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2015, 09:10:25 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrf_vjqa1G4

This was interesting to watch.

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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2015, 01:27:25 AM »
Thanks, Cal, for providing us another UFO video to interpret.  In the video NASA Secret UFO Tapes: Compilation of Captured UFO Footage! we see mostly floating light globs that seem to be following one of the early manned space capsules that NASA launched into earth orbit, and lunar orbit.  I recall these blobs being reported at the time of their observation, and if I recall correctly they turned out to be a fluid escaping the space capsule, which were moving through space at the same trajectory as the space capsule, and I believe it was urine.  So, no mystery or proof of space aliens here.

On your comments regarding Rich2150x, I happen to agree.  However, I did not find his work compelling enough to watch all of his videos, but what I noticed was his OOBEs all seem to be close to the Earth plane.  What lies beyond for those who go OOBE is to move into higher dimensions, and into space itself.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 02:15:56 PM by Jhanananda »
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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2015, 03:54:58 AM »
Thanks, Cal, for providing us another UFO video to interpret.  In the video NASA Secret UFO Tapes: Compilation of Captured UFO Footage! we see mostly floating light globs that seem to be following one of the early manned space capsules that NASA launched into earth orbit, and lunar orbit.  I recall these blobs being reported at that time of their observation, and if I recall correctly they turned out to be a fluid escaping the space capsule, and I believe it was urine.  So, no mystery or proof of space aliens here.

Aye, I do recall reading something similar as well. I just found it interesting how such wild beliefs could be formed on something as abstract and "narrow" as a video such as this. Yet, that is human nature I suppose, and it did provide me with a closer look. I was asked to write a short book not long ago on the "Evolutionary basis of religion". The topic itself I found to be a joke, but ill save that for later. While doing some "research", (aka reading the opinions of a "professional" as to why the formation of religion is limited to some basic human need for social stability. Can you say "missed it by a mile"? I might add that for one to define "religion" within an "Evolutionary basis", by a "professional psychologist", is to discredit the intention of religion and say that "we just made it up". I got into some trouble when I told my instructor that I seen a stark correlation to defining religion within an evolutionary basis to that of asking a chimp to fix my vehicle) I did get a closer look at some scientific perspective on some innate human "tendencies", and how fragile, yet malleable this particular one could be. Simply, the belief in aliens/UFO's could fill the "gap" of union, or the belief of a higher power. I think this of course is exacerbated with some "guidance" from the US government and Hollywood. It's sad, really.


On your comments regarding Rich2150x, I happen to agree.  I did not find his work compelling enough to watch all of his videos, but what I noticed was his OOBEs all seem to be close to the Earth plane.  What lies beyond for those who go OOBE is to move into higher dimensions, and into space itself.

I think I only liked that he talked about them.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 04:04:20 AM by Cal »

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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2015, 07:09:29 AM »
Since we're on the topic of UFOs, I thought I'd add Steven Greer. He's the founder of the Disclosure Project and used to be a chairman of the Department of Emergency Medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital in North Carolina. So i would believe that he at least has a scientific and practical understanding of things.

He claims a coverup by the government and shows documents to prove his point on his site: http://www.siriusdisclosure.com/evidence/bae-documents/ And that's quite typical of the conspiracy theories. The main difference is that he gets witnesses from quite prominent positions, such as former ministers, army veterans, officials, etc. Here: http://www.siriusdisclosure.com/witness-testimony/

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True or not, I think the more curious thing is that Greer claims that humans can make contact using meditation. So this again shows a link between meditation and experiencing UFOs or aliens.

  • He advocates mantra meditation
  • Remote viewing/precognition
  • He uses the words: "higher states of Consciousness"
  • What doesn't gel well with me is that he uses Vedic traditions such as "Puja", which is some kind of offering to make a place 'sacred'
  • Also, he charges quite a bit of money as seen on his site for "expeditions" or group meditations

---

Just to add to this thread, since we're on the topic of UFOs and Steven Greer is considered a big authority on it, with his CSETI organization.

Jhanananda

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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2015, 02:25:07 PM »
Aye, I do recall reading something similar as well. I just found it interesting how such wild beliefs could be formed on something as abstract and "narrow" as a video such as this. Yet, that is human nature I suppose, and it did provide me with a closer look. I was asked to write a short book not long ago on the "Evolutionary basis of religion". The topic itself I found to be a joke, but ill save that for later. While doing some "research", (aka reading the opinions of a "professional" as to why the formation of religion is limited to some basic human need for social stability. Can you say "missed it by a mile"? I might add that for one to define "religion" within an "Evolutionary basis", by a "professional psychologist", is to discredit the intention of religion and say that "we just made it up". I got into some trouble when I told my instructor that I seen a stark correlation to defining religion within an evolutionary basis to that of asking a chimp to fix my vehicle) I did get a closer look at some scientific perspective on some innate human "tendencies", and how fragile, yet malleable this particular one could be. Simply, the belief in aliens/UFO's could fill the "gap" of union, or the belief of a higher power. I think this of course is exacerbated with some "guidance" from the US government and Hollywood. It's sad, really.

Yes, I agree with your assessment of your professor's intent.  I actually had the same problem with the head of the Anthropology department, at the University of Arizona, when I was working on a degree there.  The whole evolutionary premise of religion and culture comes from Theosophy, and has lead to many unfortunate misinterpretations of history and the archaeological recorder, including religion.

While the evolutionary premise behind theology might very well apply to religion, I believe that you will agree with me, it does not at all apply to the genuine mystics who are recorded by religion.  The fundamental problem that I see in both religion and UFOlogy is humans seek fantastic explanations; where as mystics are just trying to explain their experience within the context of language and culture.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 01:33:43 AM by Jhanananda »
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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2015, 10:56:01 PM »
Aye, I do recall reading something similar as well. I just found it interesting how such wild beliefs could be formed on something as abstract and "narrow" as a video such as this. Yet, that is human nature I suppose, and it did provide me with a closer look. I was asked to write a short book not long ago on the "Evolutionary basis of religion". The topic itself I found to be a joke, but ill save that for later. While doing some "research", (aka reading the opinions of a "professional" as to why the formation of religion is limited to some basic human need for social stability. Can you say "missed it by a mile"? I might add that for one to define "religion" within an "Evolutionary basis", by a "professional psychologist", is to discredit the intention of religion and say that "we just made it up". I got into some trouble when I told my instructor that I seen a stark correlation to defining religion within an evolutionary basis to that of asking a chimp to fix my vehicle) I did get a closer look at some scientific perspective on some innate human "tendencies", and how fragile, yet malleable this particular one could be. Simply, the belief in aliens/UFO's could fill the "gap" of union, or the belief of a higher power. I think this of course is exacerbated with some "guidance" from the US government and Hollywood. It's sad, really.

Yes, I agree with your assessment of your professor's intent.  I actually had the same problem with the head of the Anthropology department, when I was working on a degree there.  The whole evolutionary premise religion and culture comes from Theosophy, and has lead to many unfortunate misinterpretations of history and the archaeological recorder, including religion.

While the evolutionary premise behind theology might very well apply to religion, I believe that you will agree with me, it does not at all apply to the genuine mystics who are recorded by religion.  The fundamental problem that I see in both religion and UFOlogy is humans seek fantastic explanations; where as mystics are just trying to explain their experience within the context of language and culture.

I do agree with you on all accounts. It does not apply to the genuine mystic at all.
Quote from: wiki
Thomas Paine the American revolutionary, wrote in his two part work The Age of Reason, "The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. Not anything can be studied as a science, without our being in possession of the principles upon which it is founded; and as this is the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing."

The man makes a great point in that the ones who study are not in possession of the principles upon which it is founded. Now while its clear that he has more of an atheistic viewpoint, his words are true. Theology should not exist as a science, but as faith alone. However, that does not mean that a mystic or progenitor should not teach and share with those that do not understand. This "middle man" does nothing but cause problems. Science is science, religion is religion. They are different with the only commonality being that they both exist. I might add that "I" do not agree with Thomas Paine, but that his words, focused in the direction of "Christian Theology", as in you go to school to be taught a scientific method to examine text (never discerning the metaphor or analogy) and then regurgitate that as "fact", are true. I just feel like a lot of them have missed the mark. In a perfect world, the one who teaches, knows what he teaches. You put it into better words.


Bohdimind, admittedly, I have a more cynical outlook in this regard, especially when it comes from a more "credible" source. I don't believe any of them capable of telling the truth, especially the President of the US of A. I did spend a few hours listening to him, this Steven Greer, and I do think he is genuine in his belief. I suppose on this one I'll just have to wait and see what happens. But i'll tell you this much, i'll never believe the words of any government official, lol.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 11:16:14 PM by Cal »

Jhanananda

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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2015, 01:39:17 AM »
I happen to agree with the Thomas Paine quote, thanks, Cal.  I find most organized religions are as much a farce as most governments.  It is just frauds trying to convince the herd to fund the 1%.
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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2015, 01:47:47 AM »
Since we're on the topic of UFOs, I thought I'd add Steven Greer. He's the founder of the Disclosure Project and used to be a chairman of the Department of Emergency Medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital in North Carolina. So i would believe that he at least has a scientific and practical understanding of things.

He claims a coverup by the government and shows documents to prove his point on his site: http://www.siriusdisclosure.com/evidence/bae-documents/ And that's quite typical of the conspiracy theories. The main difference is that he gets witnesses from quite prominent positions, such as former ministers, army veterans, officials, etc. Here: http://www.siriusdisclosure.com/witness-testimony/

Thanks, bodhimind.  The guy seems to have credentials, and thus credibility, but his evidence in 1952 regarding a "flying saucer" is most probably sightings of experimental aircraft, which he does not seem to be aware of.

True or not, I think the more curious thing is that Greer claims that humans can make contact using meditation. So this again shows a link between meditation and experiencing UFOs or aliens.

  • He advocates mantra meditation
  • Remote viewing/precognition
  • He uses the words: "higher states of Consciousness"
  • What doesn't gel well with me is that he uses Vedic traditions such as "Puja", which is some kind of offering to make a place 'sacred'
  • Also, he charges quite a bit of money as seen on his site for "expeditions" or group meditations

---

Just to add to this thread, since we're on the topic of UFOs and Steven Greer is considered a big authority on it, with his CSETI organization.

He is most probably a follower of TM, which means he never bothered to unpack the fraud of TM.  However, it does support my premise that people who report abductions might very well have practiced meditation, and mistook an OOBE for an abduction.
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Re: Space Aliens, alien abduction and UFOs
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2015, 02:58:06 AM »
Abnormal optical illusions can occur during rare atmospheric conditions, which can occur repeatedly over time.  The Marfa lights appears to be in this class.  These optical illusions can be so compelling that people might mistake them for paranormal, or technology controlled by extra terrestrial intelligence.

While doing archaeology a few years ago along the US-Mexican boarder in the Organ Pipe National Monument and Tohono O'odham Indian reservations I observed such optical illusions on a regular basis.  It was March and we often started work before sunrise.  I found on cold mornings the long flat valleys with mountain ranges at their far end was a characteristic of this region, and right at sunrise pools of light seemed to hover just above the far terrain.  I believe these observed optical illusions are similar to the Marfa lights.  I have also found these apparent pools of light are mirror-like and can reflect objects that would not be visible due to the curvature of the earth, so that lights, and objects, which otherwise would not be in that particular location, can appear to be flying above the horizon in remote areas with no roads.

The Paranormal Sightings in San Luis Valley of Colorado appear to be optical illusions caused by similar atmospheric conditions.

Quote from: wiki
Marfa lights
The Marfa lights, also known as the Marfa ghost lights, have been observed near U.S. Route 67 on Mitchell Flat east of Marfa, Texas, in the United States. They have gained some fame as onlookers have ascribed them to paranormal phenomena such as ghosts, UFOs, or will-o'-the-wisp, etc. However, scientific research suggests that most, if not all, are atmospheric reflections of automobile headlights and campfires.

History

The first published account of the lights appeared in the July 1957 issue of Coronet magazine,[1][2] the earliest source for anecdotal claims that the lights date back to the 19th century. Reports often describe brightly glowing basketball-sized spheres floating above the ground, or sometimes high in the air. Colors are usually described as white, yellow, orange, or red, but green and blue are sometimes reported. The balls are said to hover at about shoulder height, or to move laterally at low speeds, or sometimes, to shoot around rapidly in any direction. They often appear in pairs or groups, according to reports, to divide into pairs or to merge, to disappear and reappear, and sometimes to move in seemingly regular patterns. Their sizes are typically said to resemble soccer balls or basketballs.[citation needed] Sightings are reported occasionally and unpredictably, perhaps 10 to 20 times a year.[citation needed] No reliable daytime sightings have been reported.
Scientific studies
Spectroscopic analysis

For 20 nights in May 2008, scientists from Texas State University used spectroscopic equipment to observe lights from the Marfa lights viewing station. They recorded a number of lights that "could have been mistaken for lights of unknown origin", but in each case, the movements of the lights and the data from their equipment could be easily explained as automobile headlights or small fires.[3]
Society of Physics Students investigation

In May 2004, a group from the Society of Physics Students at the University of Texas at Dallas spent four days investigating and recording lights observed southwest of the view park using traffic volume-monitoring equipment, video cameras, binoculars, and chase cars. Their report made the following conclusions:[4]

    U.S. Highway 67 is visible from the Marfa lights viewing location.
    The frequency of lights southwest of the view park correlates with the frequency of vehicle traffic on U.S. 67.
    The motion of the observed lights was in a straight line, corresponding to U.S. 67.
    When the group parked a vehicle on U.S. 67 and flashed its headlights, this was visible at the view park and appeared to be a Marfa light.
    A car passing the parked vehicle appeared as one Marfa light passing another at the view park.

They came to the conclusion that all of the lights observed over a four-night period southwest of the view park could be reliably attributed to automobile headlights traveling along U.S. 67 between Marfa and Presidio, Texas. A 1965 investigation of The Spooklight in southwestern Missouri reached a similar conclusion.[5]
Other explanations

Skeptic Brian Dunning notes that the designated "View Park" for the lights, a roadside park on the south side of U.S. Route 90 about 9 miles (14 km) east of Marfa, is located at the site of Marfa Army Airfield, where tens of thousands of personnel were stationed between 1942 and 1947, training American and Allied pilots. This massive field was then used for years as a regional airport, with daily airline service. Between Marfa AAF and its satellite fields — each constantly patrolled by sentries — they consider it unlikely that any unusual phenomena would have remained unobserved and unmentioned. According to Dunning, the dominant explanation is that the lights are a sort of mirage caused by sharp temperature gradients between cold and warm layers of air.[6] Marfa is located at an altitude of 4,688 ft (1,429 m) above sea level, and temperature differentials of 50–60°F (28–33°C) between high and low temperatures are quite common.

Quote from: wiki
Will-o'-the-wisp
A will-o'-the-wisp (/ˌwɪl ə ðə ˈwɪsp/), will-o'-wisp (/ˌwɪl ə ˈwɪsp/), or ignis fatuus (/ˌɪɡnɨs ˈfætʃuːəs/; Medieval Latin: "foolish fire") is an atmospheric ghost light seen by travellers at night, especially over bogs, swamps or marshes. It resembles a flickering lamp and is said to recede if approached, drawing travellers from the safe paths. The phenomenon is known by a variety of names, including jack-o'-lantern, friar's lantern, hinkypunk, and hobby lantern in English[1] folk belief, well attested in English folklore and in much of European folklore.

Attempted scientific explanations
The earliest attempt to scientifically explain the causes of ignis fatuus was by the Italian physicist Alessandro Volta in 1776 when he discovered methane. He proposes that natural electrical phenomena (like lightning) interacting with marsh gas may be the cause of ignis fatuus.[22] This was supported by the British polymath Joseph Priestley in his series of works Experiments and Observations on Different Kinds of Air (1772–1790); and by the French physicist Pierre Bertholon de Saint-Lazare in De l’électricité des météores (1787).[23]

Early critics of the marsh gas hypothesis often dismissed it on various grounds including the unlikeliness of spontaneous combustion, the absence of warmth in some observed ignis fatuus, the odd behavior of ignis fatuus receding upon being approached, as well as the differing accounts of ball lightning (which was also classified as a kind of ignis fatuus).[23] An example of such criticism is the following by the American anthropologist John G. Owens in Folk-Lore from Buffalo Valley (1891):

    This is a name that is sometimes applied to a phenomenon perhaps more frequently called Jack-o'-the-Lantern, or Will-o'-the-Wisp. It seems to be a ball of fire, varying in size from that of a candle-flame to that of a man's head. It is generally observed in damp, marshy places, moving to and fro; but it has been known to stand perfectly still and send off scintillations. As you approach it, it will move on, keeping just beyond your reach; if you retire, it will follow you. That these fireballs do occur, and that they will repeat your motion, seems to be established, but no satisfactory explanation has yet been offered that I have heard. Those who are less superstitious say that it is the ignition of the gases rising from the marsh. But how a light produced from burning gas could have the form described and move as described, advancing as you advance, receding as you recede, and at other times remaining stationary, without having any visible connection with the earth, is not clear to me.[24]

However, the apparent retreat of ignis fatuus upon being approached might be explained simply by the agitation of the air by nearby moving objects, causing the gases to disperse. This was observed in the very detailed accounts of several close interactions with ignis fatuus published earlier in 1832 by Major Louis Blesson after a series of experiments in various localities where they were known to occur.[25] Of note is his first encounter with ignis fatuus in a marshland between a deep valley in the forest of Gorbitz, Newmark, Germany. Blesson observed that the water was covered by an iridescent film, and during day-time, bubbles could be observed rising abundantly from certain areas. At night, Blesson observed bluish-purple flames in the same areas and concluded that it was connected to the rising gas. He spent several days investigating the phenomenon, finding to his dismay that the flames retreated every time he tried to approach them. He eventually succeeded and was able to confirm that the lights were indeed caused by ignited gas. The British scientist Charles Tomlinson in On Certain Low-Lying Meteors (1893) describes Blesson's experiments as thus:

    On visiting the spot at night, the sensitive flames retired as the major advanced; but on standing quite still, they returned, and he tried to light a piece of paper at them, but the current of air produced by his breath kept them at too great a distance. On turning away his head, and screening his breath, he succeeded in setting fire to the paper. He was also able to extinguish the flame by driving it before him to a part of the ground where no gas was produced; then applying a flame to the place whence the gas issued, a kind of explosion was heard over eight or nine square feet of the marsh; a red light was seen, which faded to a blue flame about three feet high, and this continued to burn with an unsteady motion. As the morning dawned the flames became pale, and they seemed to approach nearer and nearer to the earth, until at last they faded from sight.[23]

Blesson also observed differences in the color and heat of the flames in different marshes. The ignis fatuus in Malapane, Upper Silesia (now Ozimek, Poland) could be ignited and extinguished, but were unable to burn pieces of paper or wood shavings. Similarly, the ignis fatuus in another forest in Poland coated pieces of paper and wood shavings with an oily viscous fluid instead of burning them. Blesson also accidentally created ignis fatuus in the marshes of Porta Westfalica, Germany, while launching fireworks.[23][25]

In modern science, it is generally accepted that most ignis fatuus are caused by the oxidation of phosphine (PH3), diphosphane (P2H4), and methane (CH4). These compounds, produced by organic decay, can cause photon emissions. Since phosphine and diphosphane mixtures spontaneously ignite on contact with the oxygen in air, only small quantities of it would be needed to ignite the much more abundant methane to create ephemeral fires.[26] Furthermore, phosphine produces phosphorus pentoxide as a by-product, which forms phosphoric acid upon contact with water vapor. This might explain the "viscous moisture" described by Blesson.
Modern explanations

One attempt to replicate ignis fatuus under laboratory conditions was in 1980 by British geologist Alan A. Mills of the Leicester University. Though he did succeed in creating a cool glowing cloud by mixing crude phosphine and natural gas, the color of the light was green and it produced copious amounts of acrid smoke. This was contrary to most eyewitness accounts of ignis fatuus.[27][28] As an alternative, Mills proposed in 2000 that ignis fatuus may instead be cold flames.[27][29] These are luminescent pre-combustion halos that occur when various compounds are heated to just below ignition point. Cold flames are indeed typically bluish in color and as their name suggests, they generate very little heat. Cold flames occur in a wide variety of compounds, including hydrocarbons (including methane), alcohols, aldehydes, oils, acids, and even waxes. However it is unknown if cold flames occur naturally, though a lot of compounds which exhibit cold flames are the natural byproducts of organic decay.[27][30]

A related hypothesis involves the natural chemiluminescence of phosphine. In 2008, the Italian chemists Luigi Garlaschelli and Paolo Boschetti attempted to recreate Mills' experiments. They successfully created a faint cool light by mixing phosphine with air and nitrogen. Though the glow was still greenish in color, Garlaschelli and Boschetti noted that under low-light conditions, the human eye cannot easily distinguish between colors. Furthermore, by adjusting the concentrations of the gases and the environmental conditions (temperature, humidity, etc.), it was possible to eliminate the smoke and smell, or at least render it to undetectable levels. Garlaschelli and Boschetti also agreed with Mills that cold flames may also be a plausible explanation for other instances of ignis fatuus.[29]

In 1993, professors Derr and Persinger proposed that some ignis fatuus may be geologic in origin, piezoelectrically generated under tectonic strain. The strains that move faults would also heat up the rocks, vaporizing the water in them. Rock or soil containing something piezoelectric, like quartz, silicon, or arsenic, may also produce electricity, channeled up to the surface through the soil via a column of vaporized water, there somehow appearing as earth lights. This would explain why the lights appear electrical, erratic, or even intelligent in their behavior.[31][32]

Other explanations link will-o'-the-wisps to bioluminescence, e.g., honey fungus and fireflies. Barn owls also have white plumage that may reflect enough light from sources such as the moon to appear as a will-o'-the-wisp; hence the possibility of the lights moving, reacting to other lights, etc.[33]

Ignis fatuus sightings are rarely reported today. The decline is believed to be the result of the draining and reclamation of swamplands in recent centuries, such as the formerly vast Fenlands of eastern England which have now been converted to farmlands.[28]

Reported light locations

Europe

    Ferbane in Ireland
    Hessdalen light in Norway
    Martebo lights in Sweden
    Paasselkä devil in Finland
    Virvatuluke in Estonia

North America

Canada

    Fireship of Baie des Chaleurs in New Brunswick
    St. Louis Light in Saskatchewan

United States

    Arbyrd/Senath Light of Missouri
    Bragg Road ghost light (Light of Saratoga) of Texas
    Brown Mountain Lights of North Carolina
    Fata Morgana
    Gurdon light of Arkansas
    Hornet ghost light (The Spooklight) of Missouri-Oklahoma state line
    Land's End Light of South Carolina
    Maco light of North Carolina
    Marfa lights of Texas
    Mirage
    Oviedo Lights of Florida
    Paulding Light of Michigan's Upper Peninsula
    Screven Spook Light of Georgia
    Skinwalker Ranch lights of Utah
    Spooklight of Oklahoma
    Summerville Light of South Carolina
    Tunnel Dam Garden Center of Missouri
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 01:13:56 PM by Jhanananda »
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