Dark Night of the Soul

[Michael Hawkins]

Thanks for the kind words, Michel.

As far as a practise of the N8P having an impact on my own personal Dark Night journey(s)... to be honest, no, I don't notice where it makes a difference one way or another.  I have a very simple practice -- meditate, communing/praying, studying -- and the various "folds" are often experienced as should's and shouldn'ts that reinforce a strong self-condemnation when things are not going well... so I try not to dwell on them too much.

That said, I've always believed that the N8P is deeply encoded into each of us, and the "waking up" process that commences with the onset of the charisms will naturally bring about (eventually) a life that more and more closely adheres to the N8P.  It's just that we have to move through a LOT of darkness and unskillfulness along the way....

[stugandolf]

My pragmatic ego, knowingly used,  got out of hand.  It wants to discuss whatever.  Part of my DNS problem has been:  entering into the discussion - really bad idea.  And secondly closely related, multitasking - it is so easy to treat whatever as important or not important - bad idea.  All tasks are worthy of complete attention but the trick is doing 1 whatever at a time.  This is a reminder to me and possibly you.  Those of us who grew up with family dysfunction,  and I have never experienced otherwise.  Most, if not all, of us have degrees of compulsive/obsessiveness  because we tried to do the right thing as a child and in our environment, impossible task.  One of my meditation friends focused entirely on washing dishes -" the dishes were like pearls"  - in context he had just finished a long retreat.  Stu

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you, Stu, "the dishes were like pearls" was great.  The problem with learning to meditate deeply is one will be marginalized for it within any religious context.  So, my solution, retreat into the wilderness.  It is, after all, a mad, mad, world; and it is not getting better.

[Jhanon]

From my conversations with Jeffrey, Jhanon, and Michael, they seem to believe in one long spiritual crisis, and not two distinct ones. However, that was my experience, and I found it was the same for John of the Cross, so I try to put the idea out there.

Hi, Alexander. I have read your writing on the "Emily" thread in the past, but don't recall enough at the moment to justly comment on it--although it's beautiful and I intend to. I think you bring up a good point here, though.

I am reading St. John's teachings, but what I say next is my actual experience. I've (so far) found there is two distinct phases, of the spiritual crisis (which is not to negate individual stages of crisis within those). The first is when one is more identity (mundane) than Soul/Awareness (supramundane). The other is the opposite.

I mean one becomes more of the charismatic intuitive Force (Soul) and all of its many gifts than the physicality-based egoic identity. How much one is this charismatic intuitive Force varies a bit throughout the day, but there is very little perceptible sense of "ownership" over the body/identity, although the identity is still lurking in the shadows--subtly attempting to hold on.

Maybe I am describing something else, but it is extremely perceptible, in my experience. I don't feel like identity anymore, or at least I don't feel as identified with identity as Awareness/Soul. I've recently had experiences where "I" am not--although it is still there, like a dog in the corner being trained.

http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,811.0.html

If we take "Dark Night of the Sense" to mean the struggle for physical identity to eliminate awareness. And "Dark Night of the Soul" to mean "Awareness/Soul" and it's campaign to gently train and eventually remove the identity. it may be suggestive of two phases of adaptation and integration. One being sense, and another being soul. But again, it also seems there is individual stages within these two phases.

This shift is fairly new to me, and no one has really offered guidance regarding this change. It's made it difficult to know how this change relates to others' experience, and so keeps coming up. The best I've been able to describe it is the whole "being Dhamma." I suspect it is the dog in the corner which continues to bring this up on the forum.

All of that aside, does this coincide with your perspective on the dark nights AND how you've shifted?

[Alexander]

Hey Jhanon,

John of the Cross has two "dark nights of the soul." The first is called the Night of Sense. The second (more famous) is called the Night of Spirit.

The actual poem, Dark Night of the Soul, is based on the second night. Much of St. John's best writing/commentary is on the Night of Spirit.

My work Emily is about my experience with the Night of Sense. My poem Anastasis is about my experience with the Night of Spirit.

Both nights are dramatic. The first night seems to begin when one is mostly physical/mundane. It spiritualizes a person. The first night includes a re-education of the passions/desires. It also includes a radical re-evaluation of one's values/views about oneself and the world.

The second night (which John of the Cross says is very rare) can only happen in someone who has already gone through the first. The Night of Spirit involves a true death of self. It leads to self-transcendence, perfection, and becoming more divine than human.

So, to conclude, my experience of spiritual growth was identical to what John of the Cross describes. But, I was fortunate, because I was acquainted with his works as I experienced each night. That gave me self-awareness/self-knowledge as I went through each one. It is possible to go through one or both nights but not be aware that they are parts of spiritual growth.

[Jhanon]

So, in short "Yes?" Your explanation appears to unify with the other. I see differences in terms, but it resonates as the same thing.

[rougeleader115]

Hello friends,

I still can't manage to type out my life to give an update, it moves too fast for me to grasp right now. Both good and bad aspects of my life are going wild and I am ground raw and beyond at this point. I cannot even express the stark hopelessness of my existence besides the succor I get from meditation and the charisms. But there is almost a peace in my external world falling apart in that I feel no guilt committing suicide to the bliss I feel in meditation. The pains and confusions of existence are very making themselves very clear to me almost every day of my life. With this too I am feeling the most intense and gratifying bliss I ever have during meditation and my daily life.

My internal calmness towards these situations and dramatic changes has astonished me and I could not find a cause besides equanimity and bliss from meditation. Because I know without a doubt that with all the happenings in the past few years and this past year especially and even now as I type this, I would surely resign from this life and kill myself. But I do not type this out of simple belief or hope, because I could mostly ssay I have none left. I write this because I truly and honestly believe that the effects and bliss and experiences I receive from meditation have saved my life. And I could just cry trying to get across how much I mean that last sentence.

For the past year I have floated so heavily in grief and pain that there has been not a moment of escape, except what I would willingly surrender in meditation. It has been so extremely difficult at times, but had I not dedicated myself and focused on letting go of all kinds of different aspects of my existence, I feel my life would be ended at this point.

I know I still have plenty further to go, but I still I can see progress in the amount of bliss I feel in every moment and in meditation, and the ever increasing lucidity of my dreams, I'm still not out of body, but I am conscious for so many experiences every night and sometimes during meditation. This progress that I can see and feel and hear, that's what keeps me here right now. That finally I have something that the amount I actually surrender and give myself unto actually gives something back in greater and greater amounts than I could have even asked literally blows my mind at times. I cannot understand why so much of the world despises me and people like us here. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with my life, but for right now I'm just going to focus on deepening as often as I can, and not worry about the guilt in my "dysfunction". So far for the past month I am up to four hours a day and whenever I wake up during my sleep cycle. At this point since I have no obligations besides my girlfriend, its down the rabbit hole for me.

Any warnings for me anyone?

Much love,
Rougeleader115

[Alexander]

How I try to see it, rougeleader, is that the sufferings are as important to the spiritual life as meditation. They're brought to the surface by it - or imposed on us by fate, so we can become purer, and advance deeper. It's unfortunate that most Buddhist accounts of the inner life have no story of the trek through "purgatory" or "hell."

[Jhanananda]

Hello friends,...I know I still have plenty further to go, but I still I can see progress in the amount of bliss I feel in every moment and in meditation, and the ever increasing lucidity of my dreams, I'm still not out of body, but I am conscious for so many experiences every night and sometimes during meditation. This progress that I can see and feel and hear, that's what keeps me here right now. That finally I have something that the amount I actually surrender and give myself unto actually gives something back in greater and greater amounts than I could have even asked literally blows my mind at times. I cannot understand why so much of the world despises me and people like us here. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with my life, but for right now I'm just going to focus on deepening as often as I can, and not worry about the guilt in my "dysfunction". So far for the past month I am up to four hours a day and whenever I wake up during my sleep cycle. At this point since I have no obligations besides my girlfriend, its down the rabbit hole for me.

Any warnings for me anyone?

Much love,
Rougeleader115

I read in your post above the same conflict many of us mystics go through.  When we fully commit to going down the rabbit hole, there is no coming back the same person.  We meditate into deep bliss, but when we come out of our blissful meditation we still have to deal with a hellish world.  I can only say that each and everyone of us has the same challenge of finding a livelihood that supports our mystical interior life. 

For some it is walking away from the world and disappearing into the wilderness never to be seen again.  For others it is finding a contemplative community that values our interior life. For others it is developing a career that is not stressful.  For others it is taking up a homeless life begging for food, or going to free-kitchens and food banks.  There are so many ways to a livelihood that supports our mystical, interior life.  Each and every successful mystics finds one that serves him, or her.  May you find yours.

[rougeleader115]

Thank you both for the responses,

Alexander I feel you are right. I wish I could read a more in depth account of a mystics pass through "hell". I want to hear and read experiences in a context that relates a little closer to my everyday experiences. That is also what inspires me to write my own experiences, good and bad, so that at least the expression of a commoner or layman is available to others, just as Jeffrey has countlessly done for us.

Out of the ones you listed, a community that understands and upholds this lifestyle as among the worthiest of pursuits is what I need. And since I cannot find a place, it has turned into the wilderness alone, unless I find a community. I might be able to work a less stressful job too in the future, but for right now, I do not want to bare any more stress in my life. Thank you for the best wishes.

As for not coming back the same person, it scared me deeply to read that, but I'm barely a shadow of the person I once knew and I don't know how to live even as I am. That whole between a rock and a hard place...

Rougeleader

[Cal]

Hi rougeleader115,

I understand what youre going through. I am also at a pass in my life. One direction leads to the unknown and the other also leads to unknown. I have struggled with things like purpose, and existence as well. I have put my faith in the words of the members here, and continue to move forward because i trust them. I feel we are lucky to have such a community. I think this is all we can do. One thing that used to give me some measure of comfort was to remember that "normal" people couldnt endure what we do. This path was given to us because we can walk it. I remind myself also that if i was to give up now, all of the pain that ive endured would have been for nothing. I do not want to continue to endure, yet, I also do not want to live another life like this. I believe salvation is close for us, in this lifetime.

[Jhanananda]

Hi rougeleader115,

I understand what youre going through. I am also at a pass in my life. One direction leads to the unknown and the other also leads to unknown. I have struggled with things like purpose, and existence as well. I have put my faith in the words of the members here, and continue to move forward because i trust them. I feel we are lucky to have such a community. I think this is all we can do. One thing that used to give me some measure of comfort was to remember that "normal" people couldnt endure what we do. This path was given to us because we can walk it. I remind myself also that if i was to give up now, all of the pain that ive endured would have been for nothing. I do not want to continue to endure, yet, I also do not want to live another life like this. I believe salvation is close for us, in this lifetime.

Cal, this is so true.  I hope you all can work it out, and document your journey for the benefit of others.

[follinge@gmail.com]

As per a recommendation on another thread, I just got this book from the library.

As Jeffrey said elsewhere, nobody would sign up for this if they knew a dark night was coming.

I certainly would have not.

A few years ago, I would not have read this book for several reasons. The chief one was that I had enough grief and depression in my life all ready, and I didn't need to create more by any kind of practice.

Now I'm ready.

I can feel some dark coming on right now. Normally, I'd pull out of it. I don't even need drugs to do this; it's just a shift of mind and focus. I could even continue meditating and "cheer myself up."

Based on what I read in the book and in this group, I have decided not to do this.

Instead, I'm going to embrace the night and ride it out. I'm not going to encourage any darkness nor will I try to cultivate it. But I won't fight it either.

I'm going to bring my awareness to this, realizing how small my life's suffering has been in contrast to the great suffering in humanity though out the ages. Heck, my own life's suffering is much less than most people here. I can see so much pain in the posts, and so much hope too. Certainly, this has propelled people forward to greater attainments.

Anyway, I just wanted to give gratitude to everyone who's been honest here, about their suffering. You can know that it helped at least one person understand the world a little bit better and to help his practice.

Especial thanks to Jeffrey for creating this space and for his teachings.

[Cal]

As per a recommendation on another thread, I just got this book from the library.

As Jeffrey said elsewhere, nobody would sign up for this if they knew a dark night was coming.

I certainly would have not.

A few years ago, I would not have read this book for several reasons. The chief one was that I had enough grief and depression in my life all ready, and I didn't need to create more by any kind of practice.

Now I'm ready.

I can feel some dark coming on right now. Normally, I'd pull out of it. I don't even need drugs to do this; it's just a shift of mind and focus. I could even continue meditating and "cheer myself up."

Based on what I read in the book and in this group, I have decided not to do this.

Instead, I'm going to embrace the night and ride it out. I'm not going to encourage any darkness nor will I try to cultivate it. But I won't fight it either.

I'm going to bring my awareness to this, realizing how small my life's suffering has been in contrast to the great suffering in humanity though out the ages. Heck, my own life's suffering is much less than most people here. I can see so much pain in the posts, and so much hope too. Certainly, this has propelled people forward to greater attainments.

Anyway, I just wanted to give gratitude to everyone who's been honest here, about their suffering. You can know that it helped at least one person understand the world a little bit better and to help his practice.

Especial thanks to Jeffrey for creating this space and for his teachings.

Look for the "lesson". It's buried deep but is a most valuable treasure.

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you, Cal, and follinge, for posting your comments here.  I find most people are in deep denial regarding their neuroses, and they are too often in mad pursuit of a distraction from their neuroses.  We call those distractions the 7 deadly sins, or 10 fetters.

Then a person takes up a contemplative life.  Most people who do, just heap a mountain of meditation practices and techniques on top of their stinking pile of unresolved neuroses, so they never get anything out of their contemplative life.

Those who do get something out of their contemplative life will have developed mindful self-awareness.  Doing so they will begin to uncover their mountain of unresolved neuroses.  This frightens most people away from leading a self-aware contemplative life, so they give it up.

Those who pursue a self-aware contemplative life will eventually uncover their neuroses, and pass through one or more dark nights of the soul in the process.  It is these people who will reap great benefit in abundant superior fruit of attainment.  So, forge on friends.