8fold path or 10fold path? + Jeffrey/Australian forest tradition parallels

[bodhimind]

And the real reason why they are exposed so well is because of good marketing (from association with a lineage) and social proof.... so people want to believe in what they want to believe in, instead of what the facts are...

I was once an avid follower of ajahn brahm (+all the other teachers in the Thai forest tradition) and so far I've only found Ajahn Mun to be closer to knowing experiential truth (but that doesn't mean any of his students have reached the same as him). I find that in these lineages, they tend to keep things secret to themselves, for lord knows what reason, saying things like texts are restricted because people shouldn't know this or that.. etc. So if such a lineage doesn't show fruit in all of its teachers, then I guess it's a bit of a deduction to know whether the fruit is rotten or not...

If there's any good in them, at least they do read sutras... But the question is as Jhanananda said, is it authentic? Because they quote the Abhidharma which is a questionable document, etc. To give them credit, they teach the jhanas at least... They teach sila/virtue... They live a contemplative life in the forest...

I remember someone here said something about giving GWV a fresh "appearance" makeover to appeal to the masses, and if I could I would be very pleased in helping out as well. However, if we were to tweak this image of GWV, we would appeal more beginners (which are what these traditions tend to do) instead of the ones with insight and experience with jhana...

[Jhanananda]

And the real reason why they are exposed so well is because of good marketing (from association with a lineage) and social proof.... so people want to believe in what they want to believe in, instead of what the facts are...

Boy, do I agree with this.  To me mainstream religion is more about marketing hype to acquire a donation stream, than it is about delivering the truth.

I was once an avid follower of ajahn brahm (+all the other teachers in the Thai forest tradition) and so far I've only found Ajahn Mun to be closer to knowing experiential truth (but that doesn't mean any of his students have reached the same as him). I find that in these lineages, they tend to keep things secret to themselves, for lord knows what reason, saying things like texts are restricted because people shouldn't know this or that.. etc. So if such a lineage doesn't show fruit in all of its teachers, then I guess it's a bit of a deduction to know whether the fruit is rotten or not...

I think it is more about hiding a deeply flawed contemplative life behind the robes, and a claim to lineage.

If there's any good in them, at least they do read sutras... But the question is as Jhanananda said, is it authentic? Because they quote the Abhidharma which is a questionable document, etc. To give them credit, they teach the jhanas at least... They teach sila/virtue... They live a contemplative life in the forest...

I do agree here with the entire Theravadan community preserving the Pali Canon, which has one of the best descriptions of the mystical experience predating 2000AD.  However, they are also at the heart of why jhana was never even spoken of until a few of us westerners started discussing.

I remember someone here said something about giving GWV a fresh "appearance" makeover to appeal to the masses, and if I could I would be very pleased in helping out as well. However, if we were to tweak this image of GWV, we would appeal more beginners (which are what these traditions tend to do) instead of the ones with insight and experience with jhana...

From observing religion over history it has become clear to me the followers are bought.  So, for the GWV's mystical contemplative mission to succeed, then we would have to build monasteries, and retreat centers, and offer free retreats, like Goenka does.  That takes money.