Author Topic: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends  (Read 5896 times)

Benj

  • vetted member
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« on: September 02, 2017, 07:09:18 PM »
Recently I discovered that someone I work with in the hospital is a Kabbalahist. We had a brief discussion around spirituality outside work one evening, after she overheard me talking to another colleague about religion. I quickly realised that this person was very spiritually advanced and she mentioned that she could leave her body at will anywhere, anytime and travel throughout any domain. She also said that she received a message to invite me to her house. That night I had a vision in bed. A door with multiple windows, all with a different perspectives of the other side and then a spinning decagon, floating in a brilliant pink and gold light, each side with Hebrew letter on. I immediately understood this is as there are many ways of looking, and that it was safe to open myself up to someone coming from the Kabbalah tradition. Yesterday I visited her house. She is clearly an enlightened person. Most discernible in the way she just sat back and simply smiled as my two year old made chaos of her house, telling me to relax and not worry about it. She had also bought toys and made vegan food for me and my son.

We spoke at length about many things. I explained the issues with organised Buddhism, I went through the jhanas and the immaterial realms, the fruits of attainment and most of my mystical experiences. Although having Buddhas in her house as well as numerous symbols from all religious and mystical traditions, she was not aware of the jhanas and the GWV philosophies. However, whilst talking to her response and was consistently 'yeah, yes and yup' throughout and continual nodding. She instinctively knew everything we discuss on this forum as the complete and normal truth of reality. I learnt that in Kabbalah there are four planes, the physical, astral, causal and mental. These are our physical, fine material, non material and Nibbana. She also mentioned that above the physical there are around twenty individual planes in all, matching up with the suttas. She also showed me something called the tree of life which seemed to incorporate the chakras, but also a lot more. She also noted that all mystical traditions are talking about the same thing and that OOBE's are an unavoidable necessity on the path to 'the light' as she called it. Leaving the body almost is path. She appears to have mastered the four jhanas as she knew them in an instant when I talked about them and she has attained all of the fruit mentioned by the Buddha, I am almost certain she read my mind and she said that she can see beings, talk to beings and that she can travel anywhere she wants in the universe. I also got the impression that she no longer practices deep meditation, just little top ups here and there. She also mentioned that one will go though multiple 'breakdowns' on the path and we spoke sometime about spiritual crisis as well as psychosis (as we both work in the field). She also told me that the spinning decagon that I saw was called a Murkabah(?), which they know as a 'chariot' and it is mathematical and metaphysical means by which one travels out of body. I also shared a reoccurring vision of mine where I routinely see a tree line in my field of vision, and one time rising up out of the tree line I saw a golden city in the distance. She was like 'oh yeah that's the holy temple, its in the upper regions of the physical heavens, you have to go through a forest to get there, but you need guidance so you can get back, I've been there many times, there's a lot of people there practising and studying the path' I almost cried at this point, as this vision of the golden city has followed me in mind for along time. Another important thing I took away from this is that I worked with this woman for 6 months and had no idea. It just goes to show that you never know ones attainment and respect should be shown to all at all times.

Anon

  • vetted member
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 04:08:57 AM »
Interesting story.

I have seen brief flashes of complex geometric figures before but I don't recall seeing them in so much detail as to be able to make out letters. How familiar are you with Hebrew that you were able to identify the letters in your vision?

Did the golden city in your vision have a temple on a hill?

Naman

  • vetted member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 143
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 07:46:10 AM »
Thats some interesting meeting.

How old is that lady btw and how long she been practising?

Benj

  • vetted member
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 08:03:38 AM »
Hi Anon.

Yes it was very clear. However, it is worth noting that during that initial conversation with her outside of the hospital, she told me something very important about myself which I needed to hear. Walking home I began to let go of an aspect of myself which needed to be shed. I began to feel a great sense of relief. Because of this mental and emotional release, when my head hit the pillow, I entered Samadhi and the vision arose in great detail. Since then I have not had a vision as clear as this.

At the time of seeing the decagon I did not know what the Hebrew language looked like. However, having just spoke to this lady and seeing the door vision, I just had the feeling it was related to Kabbalah and I needed to open to other ways of talking about the path. A couple of days later, I Google searched Kabbalah and some Hebrew letter came up, and the penny dropped. I feel that the decagon I saw was a metaphor for what we might understand as having secure, healed or complete means of travelling out of body, I.E mastering the jhanas. Another way of looking at is the Hebrew decagon is a reflection of one's chakras being in balance. Each letter on each side I think represents an aspect of ourselves, which we work on to get in balance, then we can leave the body 'in' a 'chariot' at ease. However this is all metaphor. I think if had met a mystic from another tradition, I may have had a different vision.

The golden city I have seen had a large structure near the middle rising up, I cannot say if it was a temple on a hill. But given my new friends explanation of it, I'm inclined to think that way yes. 

Regarding complex geometrical figures. Overtime I have come to understand that beyond the fine material realm (astral plane, subconscious) is the non material realm (causal plane) which consists of an unending tundra of psychedelic potentialities, which we sometimes perceive visually as psychedelic shapes or as a kind of churning nonsense. I feel that if one were to go there without mastering the jhanas as the Buddha describes, one might go mad.

Benj

  • vetted member
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 08:04:42 AM »
Hi Naman.

She is 51 and has been practicing for 30 years. She has quite an impressive life story, full of much joy, pain and creativity.

Naman

  • vetted member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 143
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 09:24:38 AM »
Thats really great ! Im glad that u have come across someone like that, in person.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2017, 05:05:37 PM »
Yes, it is the premise here that every religion has its mystics, and many of them were genuinely enlightened.  So, I am not surprised that you found some common ground with a Kabbalahists; however, do keep in mind that not every mystic has it all figured out.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Benj

  • vetted member
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2017, 07:17:49 PM »
Yes, I agree. And she openly admits she is not 'finished' in this life. Kabbalahist, it seems, do not advocate retreating to seclusion as we would expect from an arahant. Instead, their spiritual philosophy and sciences appear to include every aspect of life. Relationship, creativity, work, family. It gives the impression that if one were to go all the way, one would have the structures in place to exist normally in society. I'm not sure where I sit with this, however, she appears to have attained all the fruit and given her descriptions of 'astral travel' and her ease of ability to do so, she seems to me to be someone who has mastered the four jhanas. Would this not make her an arahant? Is it possible to have gained all the fruit and still be in the lower stages of awakening? This is an important question I feel.


Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2017, 04:22:54 PM »
Yes, I agree. And she openly admits she is not 'finished' in this life. Kabbalahist, it seems, do not advocate retreating to seclusion as we would expect from an arahant. Instead, their spiritual philosophy and sciences appear to include every aspect of life. Relationship, creativity, work, family.

We have to keep in mind that every religion has its mystics, as well as its frauds.  And, the frauds always outnumber the genuine mystics.

It gives the impression that if one were to go all the way, one would have the structures in place to exist normally in society.

In most cases the genuine mystics are persecuted, so, just because one is a mystic does not mean one will survive long in culture.

I'm not sure where I sit with this, however, she appears to have attained all the fruit and given her descriptions of 'astral travel' and her ease of ability to do so, she seems to me to be someone who has mastered the four jhanas. Would this not make her an arahant? Is it possible to have gained all the fruit and still be in the lower stages of awakening? This is an important question I feel.

There are several whole movements that claim to have the OOBE down, yet they are not known for being free from addiction and obsessive and compulsive behaviors.  My explanation for this; and we should also keep in mind Siddhartha's story in MN-26.  He did not master all of the jhanas under his two masters prior to his enlightenment.  In fact MN-26 and 36 clearly show he had the OOBE down, but not jhana.  In MN-26 we see he did not consider himself enlightened until he had discovered the jhanas.  So, just because someone has the OOBE does not mean that they have figured it all out.  In my experience it takes both the 4 jhanas, and the 4 immaterial attainments (OOBEs) for complete liberation.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Benj

  • vetted member
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2017, 06:35:22 PM »
Very interesting J! and I am inclined to agree. I also met another person this year, which I am not quite ready to write about as it was a powerful experience for me and I still need to process the event. But basically, I met a patient in the psychiatric hospital where I work who was able to travel out of body and was very knowledgeable. However this person suffered deeply and had some concerning ideas and agendas towards the utilising the OBE. I'll try to write on it soon, as it may be helpful for others to understand how one can go out of body but still be very disturbed, deluded and suffering deeply.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2017, 04:34:15 PM »
Over the decades I have met a number of people who could travel out of body; however, few of them had overcome their obsessions and compulsions.  The reason for this is they had not discovered jhana.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Benj

  • vetted member
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 05:31:12 PM »
I do agree with you, based on my personal experience. However, in your opinion, how is possible that one can gain OBE and other fruit, but not have discovered or practised jhana? I was under the impression that fruit develops in the fourth jhana.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 04:23:10 PM »
If you study Robert Monroe institute you will see that they are all about the OOBE, but know nothing about the other superior fruit of the contemplative life.  The reason for this is they do not spend time in the material level of absorption.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Benj

  • vetted member
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: it appears Kabbalahists make good spiritual friends
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 05:33:44 PM »
I have enough to study already, but I'm sure you right.