Progress as a beginner

[Rodan]

It calmed down today, but I did have very vivid and strong dreams that night, no lucids but that could have been due to my exhaustion, I wans't paying too much as I was going to bed. But when I woke up towards the end of my sleep cycle, I would enter a dream almost immediately each time. I woke up several times and each time entered a dream immediately. It was interesting. I will endeavour to be more present as I go to bed tonight and fall into dreams throughout the sleep cycle.

[Jhanananda]

It sounds like you are making very good progress in developing lucidity.  Keep it up and you will do fine

[Rodan]

Hi Jhanananda, lately I've been curious about my level of jhana. In the last month or so the intensity of the piti/sukha have diminished greatly to almost nothing most of the time in spite of my increased level of concentration. However, my tranquility been near constant, I always feel at peace and calm. As you mentioned before that is still a form of the first jhana; The issue I have is that moving my attention to the state of tranquility is a lot harder than attending to the vibratory and pleasant bliss of piti and sukha. Is this something I will just get used to over time? Grasping tranquility itself feels like attempting to grab a handful of a cloud of smoke; so it often happens that lately i've been moving back to my original object because I'm unsure of how to grasp tranquility and i'm trying to regenerate the strong piti/sukha I used to have.

[Jhanananda]

Hello Rodan, for me the charisms are like a multifrequency concert to which I attend to with precision, but I can see how attending to the tranquility of the still mind is an abstract concept and not easy to attend to  So, I agree don't lose track of the other charisms while keeping your mind still in the present moment.  Also, in my experience the tactile charisms come after the stilling of the mind, so they come in the 3rd stage of samadhi/jhana anyway. And, keep in mind the charisms associated with the 4th jhana presage the 5th stage of samadhi which is OOBE, so you are likely to be either sitting very still or lying down.

Good work, keep it up, keep going deeper, higher, etc.

[Rodan]

Hello Rodan, for me the charisms are like a multifrequency concert to which I attend to with precision, but I can see how attending to the tranquility of the still mind is an abstract concept and not easy to attend to  So, I agree don't lose track of the other charisms while keeping your mind still in the present moment.  Also, in my experience the tactile charisms come after the stilling of the mind, so they come in the 3rd stage of samadhi/jhana anyway. And, keep in mind the charisms associated with the 4th jhana presage the 5th stage of samadhi which is OOBE, so you are likely to be either sitting very still or lying down.

Good work, keep it up, keep going deeper, higher, etc.

The problem I'm having though is that the charism's are dissipating over time more so. The tactile charisms of the vibrations used to be constant though now they're quite rare and replaced by a total tranquility. I can't say if that means I'm in the 3rd jhana though given that my mind should have quieted down completely by then, same for why I don't believe I'm in the 4th jhana either. I believe if I had been in the 4th jhana I'd also see light orbs on top of having a still mind. I do sit very still though not for too long, usually after a few minutes to 10 min I sometimes move my back slightly to crack my back or adjust myself.

I tried to power through tonight and tried to avoid going to the meditation object for too long. I tried being patient and simply try to cling to whatever tiny amounts of bliss or piti I could find and it worked sort of; a tiny amount of sukha/vibrations were able to be generated. I think I just need patience and determination, perhaps I can induce bliss and piti by thinking about it and imagining it washing over my body.

Thank you for your advice and encouragement as always Jhanananda

[Jhanananda]

Hello again, Rodan.  I am sorry to read your charisms have been in decline for a while, but we have to all realize first that we are not going to get a rocket ship ride to heaven every time we meditate. We just have to show up regularly, which is at least 3 times a day, to meditate skillfully, and if we do we are likely to get the rocket ship ride a few times a year.

However, there are some skills to learn along the way, and I see you in the learning stage.

1) Meditate at least 3 times a day.  Best times to meditate are first and las thing of every day, and once midday if you can fit it in some how.
2) If you want the experience of the mystic then you really have to break the 20 minute barrier of continuous sitting to get to at least 1 hour continuous sits of no disturbance.  That does not mean that your body doesn't move on its own, you are just not making it move. I find when I meditate skillfully that my body becomes so relaxed it begins to very gently oscillate back and forth or side to side or both. This seems to keep the blood flowing and the itching and aching down to a minimum.
3) The stilling of the mind is the critical skill, without it there is no deeper level to attain, so stilling of the mind needs to be a priority and this often necessitates keeping the mind still and in the present moment all day long.
4) Once the mind is still then the charisms begin to arise, and we just have to not get excited about them, and just let them happen, but at the same time use them as our new focus of attention.
5) Learning to relax deeply is a critical skill which can take decades to develop.

[Rodan]

Thank you Jhanananda for your great advice.

I think I figured out why my charisms may have dissipated. Though my concentration has increased my inner subconscious continued to dwell on matters relating to my life. I discovered this to be the case when I attempted to break loose from everything I'm dealing with from work, finances, family, loved ones and set them aside as if they do not exist. I noticed I was able to get back the charisms maybe not to the full strength I had before but I could feel piti/sukha coursing again in a non-negligible way.

You were right about the movements. I pushed myself to remain completely still for 10 min at a time and it seems to have deepened my experience. I will push for 15 min tomorrow and gradually increase the time so I can relax while doing so.

The effect of this change has been nice, I woke up in the middle of the night the other night and saw a largeish blue circle hover above me and change size slightly. I guess that would be the kasina you mentioned. I don't believe I was in a dream; though maybe I was; I often dream about being in my room. Then when I finally woke up to do my meditation, I had another experience with light based phenomenon. I began to see the white dots/visual nimitta again as I have not seen them for awhile either. This time it was far brighter than it was before and incredibly vivid. Prior to the nimitta appearing I saw a series of numbers appear in my vision, these were not mental images but clearly seen optically while my eyes were closed; I saw the number 9 and then it changed to the number 4 and then I think it became a 0? From that 0 it collapsed into the bright white nimitta. This lasted for what I believe to have been a couple of minutes as I did not check the time.

[Jhanananda]

Rodan, it sounds like you are making excellent progress. Just keep going.

[Tad]

Great point by Jhananda about allowing the body to naturally move during meditation. Some meditation teachers/traditions teach to sit still like a rock. But it is not helpful for aiming at jhana. I also find that even though it is important to keep the back generally straight, it is much more important to relax. In a good session when energy starts flowing, the back tends to naturally straighten up.

BTW, I read that one famous Buddhist Ajahn stated that light in meditation is Mara trying to distract meditator from jhana. Not sure if it was literal or more like a joke to prevent people from wanting to cling to visions. What do you think about that?

[Jhanananda]

Tad, it's good to see how much progress you are making in such a short time. Regarding your question about the Ajan's guidance.  It sounds like more misguidance, just as most Buddhist monks will never even mention the term 'jhana' even though the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path is defined in the suttas in terms of jhana. Another way of looking at this question is why is this the only forum on Buddhism that provides factual, experiential content regarding jhana? Or, why is it that I have been a monk for 20 years, but no Buddhist monk will ordain me?  Or, why is it that I have been marginalized in the Buddhist community when I appear to be the only Buddhist monk who provides factual, experiential content regarding jhana? This is where the topic of jhana becomes political. We could make this a bigger picture. If you study mystics and mysticism you will find regardless of the religion most mystics were marginalized, if not martyred.  Why?

[Tad]

Jhananda,

thank you! Regarding monks and their teachings, it seems that many of them tend to prioritize their lineage/tradition over anything else. Maybe that is the reason why so many contradictions among their teachings exist. For example, there is another famous Sayadaw who teaches contrary to the famous Ajahn that I previously mentioned. He actually teaches to use light nimitta. I am thinking that in some cases monks might be trying to point to the right thing, but use inaccurate terminology, which misleads people. In some cases they might be trying to teach something that worked for them in certain limited circumstances, but is not necessarily the most effective way for most. Then we also have traditions that completely ignore proper meditation. 

[Rodan]

Jhananda,

thank you! Regarding monks and their teachings, it seems that many of them tend to prioritize their lineage/tradition over anything else. Maybe that is the reason why so many contradictions among their teachings exist. For example, there is another famous Sayadaw who teaches contrary to the famous Ajahn that I previously mentioned. He actually teaches to use light nimitta. I am thinking that in some cases monks might be trying to point to the right thing, but use inaccurate terminology, which misleads people. In some cases they might be trying to teach something that worked for them in certain limited circumstances, but is not necessarily the most effective way for most. Then we also have traditions that completely ignore proper meditation.

Hi Tad, yes I've heard of the use of the light nimitta to access jhana which I'm not sure is a helpful method as I dont' really see bright nimitta until I've already entered first jhana and even then they rarely persist for too long. It's a weird description of entering jhanas considering classic texts only mention the jhanic factors as a prerequisite for being jhana. I'm not sure how they support the requirement of a visual nimitta to be a prerequisite for entrance. I think Jhanananda once mentioned they could be talking about the 4th jhana as I imagine that's when stable lights persist

[Jhanananda]

Thank you, Tad, and Rodan for pointing out the inconsistencies in meditation instruction coming from the priesthood of the various religions.  While critiquing world religions we should keep in mind anything in European culture historically resembling a methodology such as the practice of meditation generally resulted in cruel methods of death by enraged Christian mobs stirred up by the entrenched Christian priesthood.

[Tad]

Hello Rodan,

those monks were talking about higher jhanas as we understand. But an important factor to consider is that those who follow the commentaries rather than the early suttas have a somewhat different understanding of what constitutes jhana. It is of course a distorted version of Buddha's teachings.

[Jhanananda]

Yes, I agree the commentaries are definitely a distorted view of the suttas.  In fact I would go further and say the are a corruption of the suttas regarding jhana, so anyone who refers to the Vissudhimmaga as an authoritative source has been deeply mislead, which explains why most of the few monks who openly speak of jhana has such a radically different take on it.  Most notably they dismiss what we call jhana 1-4 as "access concentration." There are a number of problems here. First off there is no reference for something called "access concentration" in the suttas. And, when these people dismiss the 4 jhanas as "merely access concentration" then contemplatives do not realize how important they are to deeper meditation states.