The astral body condition and OOBE visitors

[Rodan]

No reason to wait, but you will find when you are skilled at consistently meditating to the depth of the 4th jhana is when you are ready to go OOBE which is the 5th stage of samadhi

Interesting, then that would be for the case when one wishes to have an OOBE while meditating?

I have another question, would it be possible to find guides that would 'download' worldly knowledge into me. I've discussed wanting to use the lucid state to learn, but I wonder if it's possible to say, contact an entity who has a knowledge of mathematics or science and ask them to teach me. I feel like the lucid/OOBE world would be a great chance to gain insight both spiritually and in the mundane world. Or even still, use the akashic records to study from directly.

[Jhanananda]

Interesting, then that would be for the case when one wishes to have an OOBE while meditating?

Yes, but to give you a more precise answer; the term 'meditation' has come to mean a cognitive mental exercise with the intention of producing an altered state of consciousness which is often called in English a religious experience, and in Pali and Sanskrit that state is called samadhi, and that state has 8 stages, and those 8 stages are relative degrees of suspension of the cognitive functions, so we really cannot call having an OOBE during meditation, when meditation we end and samadhi would begin. But, otherwise, yes one can enter the 4th stage of samadhi via a meditation technique and session, and recognize that depth and thus move to the 5th stage, which is an OOBE; however, one is likely to be meditating lying down to enter an OOBE, because there won't be any cognitive awareness of the body to keep it sitting up in meditation.

I have another question, would it be possible to find guides that would 'download' worldly knowledge into me. I've discussed wanting to use the lucid state to learn, but I wonder if it's possible to say, contact an entity who has a knowledge of mathematics or science and ask them to teach me. I feel like the lucid/OOBE world would be a great chance to gain insight both spiritually and in the mundane world. Or even still, use the akashic records to study from directly.

Yes, gaining knowledge and wisdom through deep meditation into deep altered states of consciousness associated with the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi) is a more precise definition of insight (vipasana); however, remember the 8 stages of samadhi are relative degrees of suspension of the cognitive functions, and your request is very cognitive. 

So, how insight really works is through deep meditation we suspend the cognitive functions, and by so doing we enter an OOBE, and by doing that on a regular basis one will encounter many, many disembodied beings, as well as recover whole previous lifetimes from whom and which we can download vast quantities of knowledge and wisdom that in most cases overwhelms the retention capacity of the mind/brain/awareness that we do not often retain 99% of that wisdom/knowledge, but enough that the experience is typically life changing and transformative.

[Rodan]

Yes, gaining knowledge and wisdom through deep meditation into deep altered states of consciousness associated with the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi) is a more precise definition of insight (vipasana); however, remember the 8 stages of samadhi are relative degrees of suspension of the cognitive functions, and your request is very cognitive.

So, how insight really works is through deep meditation we suspend the cognitive functions, and by so doing we enter an OOBE, and by doing that on a regular basis one will encounter many, many disembodied beings, as well as recover whole previous lifetimes from whom and which we can download vast quantities of knowledge and wisdom that in most cases overwhelms the retention capacity of the mind/brain/awareness that we do not often retain 99% of that wisdom/knowledge, but enough that the experience is typically life changing and transformative.

I understand that it's quite cognitive but I wonder why it would be a hindrance. I've sometimes used the cognitive faculties in determining if I were in a lucid dream at time. though they were not very long at all.

Regarding the retainment of known, could one not parcel the amount of information one receives? So instead of receiving a large amount of information one could just take in say 1% of that information instead of 99% of it. I also wonder, since the OOBE realms operate on a different time scale. Could one not receive knowledge in the span of a few hours while only 10 minutes pass by in the real world to ease the transfer of knowledge.

Thank you.

[Jhanananda]

I understand that it's quite cognitive but I wonder why it would be a hindrance. I've sometimes used the cognitive faculties in determining if I were in a lucid dream at time. though they were not very long at all.

To understand why the cognitive functions decrease as one moves through the 8 stages of samadhi is understand that the 2nd jhana is the stilling of the mind. So, start with stilling your mind, and allowing the process of samadhi to blossom naturally instead of trying to force it by thinking your way through it.

Regarding the retainment of known, could one not parcel the amount of information one receives? So instead of receiving a large amount of information one could just take in say 1% of that information instead of 99% of it. I also wonder, since the OOBE realms operate on a different time scale. Could one not receive knowledge in the span of a few hours while only 10 minutes pass by in the real world to ease the transfer of knowledge.

Thank you.

You are still trying to think yourself through samadhi and the spiritual dimension.  Just work on stilling your mind, and keeping it still, then samadhi will blossom in you, and deepen. And, realize that samadhi takes its own time, because there is no "drive thru" samadhi. One does not force it.

[Rodan]

Had the most vivid and powerful DILD's (dream induced lucid dream), but the dream ended up collapsing as soon I became lucid. Though I think it's my fault; I was in an elevator when I gained lucidity and thought "I should get out of here" but meant in the sense of flying out of the elevator. Perhaps my excitement or lack of experience in samadhi is causing my dreams to collapse shortly after gaining lucidity.

After the collapse of that dream I had some interesting experiences, I woke up in my bed but I think I was still dreaming, not sure. Anyways, I decided to try to attempt to leave the body and felt the vibrations; unfortunately as I've experienced lately, I hear those loud shrieks and I cannot seem to exit the body which is why I felt like I may still been dreaming and thus had no body to even leave but why did I feel those vibrations then? Perhaps I should have just gotten out of bed. 

In spite of not being able to leave the body I' may have actually travelled regardless as I found that each subsequent vibrational experience would lead to a panoramic view of a blackish blue void with blue fireworks centered in the middle, when the fireworks ended I'd end up in a modified version of my room; subsequently after that, when I attempted to induce the vibrations again and visit someone, I could not see anything and everything felt black but I heard a voice exclaim "is someone there?" so I may have inadvertently spooked someone in spite of not being able to see where I was.

[Jhanananda]

Good work Rodan, but when you become lucid in the dream state you are likely to be already out of the body. All you had to do is leave the elevator directly and fly wherever you wanted.

The loud noises upon leaving and reentering the body are commonly reported in the OOBE word.  I used to hear the slamming of a screen door.  Others hear a bang.  I think what it is is when we are transitioning the nerve connections for the ears are suddenly activiated and we do not have our normal regulation of the hearing nerve channel in place so the gain tends to be cranked up to max.

The "blackish blue void with fireworks" suggests the "kasina" that we have discussed here before.  The kasina occurs just as we are going in and out of the body, and might just be the visual form of the auditory experience discussed above, where the visual nerves might be over stimulated at the point of going in and out of the body and produce these phenomena.

[Alexander]

Remember to make a habit of writing your dreams and other phenomena... It is easiest to remember right on waking. Sometimes it helps to just write a few key words to refresh your memory. These shadow memories are quite elusive. It's possible to have remarkable experiences and forget everything.

[Jhanananda]

I completely agree with you, Alexander.

[Rodan]

Thank you Alexander, that's a good point. I began taking notes on my phone instead of waiting to write things down at my desk or type on my pc before. The memories dissipate so quickly in a matter of seconds at times.

[Rodan]

Good work Rodan, but when you become lucid in the dream state you are likely to be already out of the body. All you had to do is leave the elevator directly and fly wherever you wanted.

The loud noises upon leaving and reentering the body are commonly reported in the OOBE word.  I used to hear the slamming of a screen door.  Others hear a bang.  I think what it is is when we are transitioning the nerve connections for the ears are suddenly activiated and we do not have our normal regulation of the hearing nerve channel in place so the gain tends to be cranked up to max.

The "blackish blue void with fireworks" suggests the "kasina" that we have discussed here before.  The kasina occurs just as we are going in and out of the body, and might just be the visual form of the auditory experience discussed above, where the visual nerves might be over stimulated at the point of going in and out of the body and produce these phenomena.

Yes, that is the mistake I keep making everytime I wake up in the dream. I should simply get up peaceful, I do not have to exit the body at that point. Though sometimes I have trouble even moving my body, as if I have sleep paralysis. All these shall be fixed as I keep practicing. Thank you as always for your advice.

[Jhanananda]

We have also discussed sleep paralysis here many times.  I used to experience sleep paralysis during the early days of my OOBE experience.  I found it was due to me identifying with the body too much. If you just keep up your progress eventually you will lose body identification and find freedom of movement out of body.

[Jhanananda]

Taking a few notes to remember the lucid and OOBE experience, however we do it, seems like a good idea.

[Rodan]

Had an interesting experience prior to waking up today, in between a waking and an asleep state. I was suddenly in a conversation with someone, it appeared to be telepathic, I seemed to be answering questions about my day and how i'm fasting, then they asked about the programming I was doing; it was weird because I did not wondering who they were at all or questioning any of it, I just spoke and answered them telepathically. I could not see them either. I was in bed, partially in a void partially back in my room.