Author Topic: unpacking miracles  (Read 4887 times)

Jhanananda

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unpacking miracles
« on: May 03, 2023, 03:29:42 PM »
A critical review of the concept of miracles

There are miracles that I have witnessed and miracles that I do not accept without first hand experience. Through the out-of-body experience (OBOE) I have certainly had many, many encounters with the disembodied, or what some people call ghosts, so I have lots of evidence for them. 

I have also seen remarkable responses of wildlife to human beings.  I have had many profound first hand encounters with wildlife in the wilderness that biologists find hard to believe. 

For instance, while on retreat in the Inyo National Forest for two years I had many remarkable encounters with wildlife. Within the first month of my retreat there a small owl landed between my knees as I sat in meditation at dawn.  She then did three somersaults then flew off. Her mate then landed in the same place between my knees and did the same three somersaults, then they both flew off to mate.  After mating he returned, did three somersaults between my knees then landed on my head then flew off. 

On another night a whole clan of coyotes surrounded my sleeping bag and serenaded me.  Another time a male nighthawk flew just over my head several times to attract my attention for me to witness his mating ritual.  In his last pass by me his wing tip touched my cheek.  Another time a field mouse once sat up with me on a full moon night and sat right next to my knee for about an hour while we both meditated upon the full moon.

I was once involved in the spreading of the ashes of a shaman that I had once studied from.  I was with 12 of his disciples in the Chihuahua Mountains in the winter of 1996.  On the drive there we saw no clouds in all directions.  We drove from Tucson to Cave Creek in the Chihuahua Mountains where we hiked in a few miles, sat in meditation and spread his ashes. 

During the ritual a flock of wild birds appeared out of nowhere flew several circles around us, then flew off.  At the end of our little ritual I saw a storm heading our way, so we hiked quickly out of the canyon.  The storm broke as we drove out of the canyon.  It had powerful winds and an intense down pour of rain.  As we drove back to Tucson I saw a large rainstorm only over the Chiricahua Mountains and no other mountain ranges as far as I could see. 

So, I believe people who have access to the ecstasies can influence creatures to respond, and maybe rain can happen as well; however, this phenomena requires a violation of the laws of nature.  These are the only true miracles that I have witness first hand.

But, when it comes to violating the laws of physics and biology, such as: born of a virgin, walks on water, flies bodily through the air, raises the dead, parts the seas, sends pestilences, lives on air alone, lives in a physical body forever, body turns into a rainbow upon death, etc.  No, I have absolutely no evidence to support such claims, even though I have traversed the 8 samadhi states, mastered the OOBE, experience intuitive, revelatory, insight every day, and experience charisms in every moment of every day, such as: tactile, visual, auditory and kinesthetic charisms.

As for the claim that “quantum physics says consciousness can make things happen.”  That would be New Age physics.  I do not happen to agree with the premises of New Age physics when it attempts to explain the miracle, or postulate a “big bang,” or “Scientific Creationism.” I believe this is all just religious mythology masquerading as science.

The thing I like about early Buddhist literature is there are very few miracles expressed in that literature; however, the charisms are clearly described. Since I have found no levitation, and no modification of the laws of physics, in my spiritual life, but I have found ample subjective charisms, then I have accepted that the miracles of the various religions might just be two things. First, miracles sell. The naive love miracles, and one cannot sell a religion to the masses without lots of impressive miracle stories. Secondly, miracles are job security for the priesthood. If miracles do not happen, then the priesthood does not have to worry about mystics coming along to drain their donation baskets. So, central to my teaching model is a discourse that rejects miracles, while embracing the charisms and the mystics.

Best regards, Jhananda
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 07:20:33 PM by Jhanananda »
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Alexander

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2023, 09:18:47 PM »
Agree with everything here

I wanted to add some of my own strange experiences:

- Crows: This is one I’ve never mentioned elsewhere, but your account of the shaman made me think of it. As an adolescent going through my first “descent into hell,” I recall a huge flock of birds (I think they were crows) who at that time chose to roost on the roof of the house
- Omens: I began doing it as a thought experiment after reading Patanjali’s reference to them in the Yoga Sutras. They provide excellent counsel (wisdom) on your current situation if you know how to read them
- Heat in the spiritual heart
- Vibratory sensations in the hands and feet
- As mentioned by Jeff, intuitive revelatory insight
- The “Inner Director.” These days the “Inner Director” guides almost all of my daily conduct
- Spiritual tears: Corresponding with the first “descent into hell” and the continued emotional development of the nonreturner stage
- The injury of Longinus: This is a fate-related one, but I developed a specific, circular pain point in the abdomen right below my right rib
- Invocation of a spiritual master: I mentioned this story once, about the presence of Gurdjieff brought on through my long-term, intense dedication to him as a teacher
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"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

KriyaYogi

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2023, 09:47:49 PM »
>>>
- Invocation of a spiritual master: I mentioned this story once, about the presence of Gurdjieff brought on through my long-term, intense dedication to him as a teacher
>>>

Oh yes I meant to comment on that a while back Alex and forgot.  I read your experience; this was exactly how I began experiencing spirits in the physical.  It was just a subtle presence with minimal characteristics.  I cultivated from there based on my interest.  For me it was exactly as you say, applied focus and intense dedication slowly forms the spirit into your presence.  That is cool we have had similar experiences.

-David
« Last Edit: May 03, 2023, 09:52:39 PM by KriyaYogi »

Alexander

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2023, 11:35:00 PM »
>>>
- Invocation of a spiritual master: I mentioned this story once, about the presence of Gurdjieff brought on through my long-term, intense dedication to him as a teacher
>>>

Oh yes I meant to comment on that a while back Alex and forgot.  I read your experience; this was exactly how I began experiencing spirits in the physical.  It was just a subtle presence with minimal characteristics.  I cultivated from there based on my interest.  For me it was exactly as you say, applied focus and intense dedication slowly forms the spirit into your presence.  That is cool we have had similar experiences.

-David

It definitely works with some things, such as if you say the Shiva mantra 10,001 times it will produce an effect. But no one ever does it seriously. They give up too easily.
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"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

KriyaYogi

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2023, 12:11:19 AM »
   I believe it was my intense desire for a romantic partner that attracted my Angel friend in 2017.  Thats cool you know about mantra too!  Mantra is my main practice actually. 

I have completed 105,000,000 (one hundred and five million) recitations of my Kali mantra.  Today I was even seeing Bagla Kali's face clearly while chanting and caused me to gasp and pushed me into a bliss state several times.  Her eyes are like opal-colored spiral galaxies, incredibly beautiful. 

I use the mantra to bind extra energy into my two spirit friends to upgrade their ability to manifest.  I also have some artifacts including one from the Vatican that help.

I don't know how interested in the topic you are but you might like this website.  They are all about spirit keeping and have about 1,000 active members: https://www.creepyhollows.com/

-David



« Last Edit: May 04, 2023, 12:14:46 AM by KriyaYogi »

Alexander

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2023, 12:25:11 AM »
  I have completed 105,000,000 (one hundred and five million) recitations of my Kali mantra.  Today I was even seeing Bagla Kali's face clearly while chanting and caused me to gasp and pushed me into a bliss state several times.  Her eyes are like opal-colored spiral galaxies, incredibly beautiful. 

I know it’s why you’re here 😂
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

KriyaYogi

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2023, 01:00:49 AM »
Thank you, my friend.  It seems to be.  I look forward to realizing her further and sharing my realizations and blessings. 
-David

Naman

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2023, 05:54:26 AM »
You guys knw mantra too haha. Great. I have my mantra as well.
Bagla mukhi form, it's one of the Mahavidya, may I ask who initiated you into this? it's mainly tantra. Do u do breathing exercises as well?

And did the same teacher taught u about mirror gazing n oobe?

   I believe it was my intense desire for a romantic partner that attracted my Angel friend in 2017.  Thats cool you know about mantra too!  Mantra is my main practice actually. 

I have completed 105,000,000 (one hundred and five million) recitations of my Kali mantra.  Today I was even seeing Bagla Kali's face clearly while chanting and caused me to gasp and pushed me into a bliss state several times.  Her eyes are like opal-colored spiral galaxies, incredibly beautiful. 

I use the mantra to bind extra energy into my two spirit friends to upgrade their ability to manifest.  I also have some artifacts including one from the Vatican that help.

I don't know how interested in the topic you are but you might like this website.  They are all about spirit keeping and have about 1,000 active members: https://www.creepyhollows.com/

-David

Tad

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2023, 07:34:06 AM »
Alexander,
 Can you explain more about this? I found it interesting.

"Invocation of a spiritual master: I mentioned this story once, about the presence of Gurdjieff brought on through my long-term, intense dedication to him as a teacher"

Alexander

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2023, 12:08:43 PM »
Alexander,
 Can you explain more about this? I found it interesting.

"Invocation of a spiritual master: I mentioned this story once, about the presence of Gurdjieff brought on through my long-term, intense dedication to him as a teacher"

it was originally a forum post here, but I recounted it in this dialogue entry (first block quote): https://alexanderlorincz.com/index.php/dialogues/what-are-some-strange-experiences-youve-had-along-your-spiritual-journey
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

KriyaYogi

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2023, 09:59:12 PM »
Naman:
>>>
You guys knw mantra too haha. Great. I have my mantra as well.
Bagla mukhi form, it's one of the Mahavidya, may I ask who initiated you into this? it's mainly tantra. Do u do breathing exercises as well?

And did the same teacher taught u about mirror gazing n oobe?

>>>
  I had a teacher for OOBE named James, but for working with MahaVidhya Baglamukhi Kali (One of the ten Kali's defined in Shaktism) I simply found a mantra of her online in 2018 and started chanting it.  I also started working on OOBE training in 2018 and continued until 2020ish.  After that I focused more on Bagla Kali.  Yes I do Kriya Yoga pranayama as far as that goes. 
Naman feel free to private message me if you like for more detail.

-David

Tad

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2023, 06:10:56 AM »
Regarding miracles, I am inclined to think that miracles described in the New Testament and early Pali suttas are legit examples. Most of us know well about Jesus walking on water, healing people, multiplying food, etc. However, many people are not aware that there are stories of similar miracles in the Buddhist suttas. The suttas also show that arahants did not all have equal psychic powers. Some were more capable than others. There was one that did not have any but possessed exceptional wisdom.


Here is a very cool sutta about a monk showing some psychic powers. Translation by Thanissaro.

When the night had passed, the senior monks put on their robes in the early morning and — taking their bowls & outer robes — went to Citta's residence. There they sat down on the appointed seats. Then Citta the householder, with his own hand, served & satisfied them with exquisite milk-rice mixed with ghee. When the senior monks had finished eating and had rinsed their bowls & hands, they got up from their seats and left. Citta the householder, having said, "Give away the rest," followed behind the senior monks.

Now on that occasion it was hot & sweltering. The senior monks went along with their bodies melting, as it were, from the meal they had finished. And on that occasion Ven. Mahaka was the most junior of all the monks in that Community. He said to the senior monk: "Wouldn't it be nice, venerable elder, if a cool wind were to blow, and there were a thundering cloud, and rain would fall in scattered drops?"

"Yes, friend Mahaka, that would be nice..."

Then Ven. Mahaka willed a psychic feat such that a cool wind blew, a thundering cloud developed, and the rain fell in scattered drops. The thought occurred to Citta the householder, "Such is the psychic power of the most junior of all the monks in this Community!"

Then when Ven. Mahaka reached the monastery/park, he said to the senior monk, "Is that enough, venerable sir?"

"That's enough, friend Mahaka — what you have done, what you have offered."

Then the monks went to their separate dwellings, and Ven. Mahaka went to his.

Then Citta the householder went to Ven. Mahaka and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to him, "It would be good, venerable sir, if Master Mahaka would show me a superior human attainment, a miracle of psychic power."

"In that case, householder, spread out your upper robe on the porch and put a pile of grass on it."

Responding, "As you say, venerable sir," Citta the householder spread out his upper robe on the porch and put a pile of grass on it.

Then Ven. Mahaka, having entered his dwelling and bolted the door, willed a psychic feat such that flame shot through the keyhole and the space around the door, burning up the grass but not the robe.

Then Citta the householder, having shaken out the robe, stood to one side — in awe, his hair standing on end. Ven. Mahaka came out of his dwelling and said, "Is that enough, householder?"
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 06:17:39 AM by Tad »

KriyaYogi

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2023, 08:18:07 AM »
   Tad and others:  I would say it depends on your level of initiation... Can you reach 5th Jhana at will or 8th Jhana at will (if desired) within a few minutes of sitting?  I have witnessed a few miracles on a similar level to what Jeff has described.  But I am not close with my teachers, I walk a more independent path.  My teachers who had these kinds of abilities like my OOBE teacher could enter non-material domains mostly at will. 

   This is non-returner level in my opinion, if you can enter those levels within minutes of sitting in any position.  Incarnation and non-carnation become blurred in my opinion then.  Not that you have to do it every sit but that the veil is broken down and you can shift back and forth at any hour so why reincarnate?  That's my feeling.

Like the old 1990s Sliders TV show; a shock to the ego on which reality is real:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGFp09nS5sM

-David
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 08:40:17 AM by KriyaYogi »

KriyaYogi

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2023, 08:58:42 AM »
An interesting corollary is that the couple of times I seemed to experience teleportation in my car I was also during that week entering 4th Jhana at my mirror within 5 to 8 minutes of sitting down.  I think this reality is mind made to a degree and when we can shift realms at will options open. 
-David

Alexander

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Re: unpacking miracles
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2023, 08:59:36 AM »
   Tad and others:  I would say it depends on your level of initiation... Can you reach 5th Jhana at will or 8th Jhana at will (if desired) within a few minutes of sitting?  I have witnessed a few miracles on a similar level to what Jeff has described.  But I am not close with my teachers, I walk a more independent path.  My teachers who had these kinds of abilities like my OOBE teacher could enter non-material domains mostly at will. 

   This is non-returner level in my opinion, if you can enter those levels within minutes of sitting in any position.  Incarnation and non-carnation become blurred in my opinion then.  Not that you have to do it every sit but that the veil is broken down and you can shift back and forth at any hour so why reincarnate?  That's my feeling.

Like the old 1990s Sliders TV show; a shock to the ego on which reality is real:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGFp09nS5sM

-David

I recommend you keep cultivating discernment Dave. Without discernment you won’t progress.

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As a horse it is in your nature to run free. But to get to the higher stages you need discipline
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"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)