I’m in a bad state

[Jhanananda]

What I was trying to say before is that it sounds like you have vastly overestimated your level of attainment. I would also guess that you are wrong about having been in Jhana as well. The only thing that is clear is that your case is very challenging. You need a teacher who can talk with you face-to-face. In person. It sounds like you have never been taught about equanimity in the face of the three marks.

While I couldn't agree more; nonetheless don't blame the teacher for the student's inability to hear.

[Alexander]

What I was trying to say before is that it sounds like you have vastly overestimated your level of attainment. I would also guess that you are wrong about having been in Jhana as well. The only thing that is clear is that your case is very challenging. You need a teacher who can talk with you face-to-face. In person. It sounds like you have never been taught about equanimity in the face of the three marks.

While I couldn't agree more; nonetheless don't blame the teacher for the student's inability to hear.

Ok 👌 I hear you

So what am I in your sincere judgment? A scholar like Underhill? Are my still mind, vibrations, inner sound, and poor OOBEs nonattainment to you?

Is climbing the ladder of divine ascent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ladder_of_Divine_Ascent nonattainment in your judgment?

I’m sorry. The central thing is I just don’t experience bliss and joy, piti and sukkha, when I meditate. It’s why it’s so difficult for me to meditate. Is my personal trauma and self-loathing the cause of this? What are my errors?

Would you be willing to FaceTime with me and correct me? What makes me incorrigible?

[Inedible]

I’ve been at this work for 15 years, and you are speaking to literally the world’s expert (from a scholarly perspective) on mysticism. Jeff would be the expert from a practical perspective (which is obviously the preferable of the two to be, thus my deference to him always on this forum).

I'm closing in on 40 years. 15 years makes you a beginner. I can't believe you are seriously saying you are any kind of expert. From what you are saying it sounds like you are claiming more than you have attained. Just by the basic definitions of the terms. That isn't a bad thing. When you realize that you are off course, the sooner you correct it the easier it will be to get where you want to go.

[Jean]

Hi Alexander,

I was reading this post while commuting in a traffic jam when suddenly an ant came out of nowhere and was crawling on my right hand. The Ant brings a message of patience. By pacing yourself, the end result will be far more rewarding. Slow down, don’t rush, work carefully. The Ant also encourages self-confidence. There are special moments when you need to wrap your strength around your waist and simply trust. The Ant may mean you must focus on teamwork/community to achieve something. Be it co-workers, peers, or family, moving as one mind is the key here. Each person in this unit is an integral part of the puzzle we are trying to complete.

What matters now is to be kind to yourself. It is clear that you are on a path towards liberation, and everyone goes through different experiences in order to achieve it. The ordeal you are currently facing is an opportunity for growth. Remember that all conditioned phenomena are in a constant state of change - nothing in the physical or mental world is permanent. Be present and observe those strong emotional and mental states, and be kind to yourself. If you are unable to meditate due to your current condition, that is okay - there is no time clock running in the background. You have a loving community around you, which is a gift. All beings are suffering, and voluntarily ending your life only leads to consequences and does not solve anything; all life is sacred. So be gentle with yourself and go through this difficult time with a soft and kind heart.

Community support and external help might help (Ant message).

Edit : I just stumbled upon this reminder "By oneself one suffers: by oneself evil is left undone, by oneself one is purified. Purity and impurity belong to oneself, no one can purify another.—Chapter 12, Dhammapada.

[Alexander]

Some akathisia symptoms this morning: restless legs, impatience/agitation. Took a Klonopin.

“One problem ends, another begins”
Have had a bad sleep disorder the past few days. Might be a parting gift from the akathisia. Insomnia, like my brain isn’t releasing the chemicals to make me drowsy. Sit in bed meditating until I “crash” (finally fall asleep) at 1-3 am.

Should have slept through breakfast today. Made the mistake to get up. I’m short of some REM phases

I’m taking 1 Trazodone, Benadryl, and Seroquel. With that quantity of sleep aids I should *definitely* be falling asleep

Hi Alexander,

I was reading this post while commuting in a traffic jam when suddenly an ant came out of nowhere and was crawling on my right hand. The Ant brings a message of patience. By pacing yourself, the end result will be far more rewarding. Slow down, don’t rush, work carefully. The Ant also encourages self-confidence. There are special moments when you need to wrap your strength around your waist and simply trust. The Ant may mean you must focus on teamwork/community to achieve something. Be it co-workers, peers, or family, moving as one mind is the key here. Each person in this unit is an integral part of the puzzle we are trying to complete.

What matters now is to be kind to yourself. It is clear that you are on a path towards liberation, and everyone goes through different experiences in order to achieve it. The ordeal you are currently facing is an opportunity for growth. Remember that all conditioned phenomena are in a constant state of change - nothing in the physical or mental world is permanent. Be present and observe those strong emotional and mental states, and be kind to yourself. If you are unable to meditate due to your current condition, that is okay - there is no time clock running in the background. You have a loving community around you, which is a gift. All beings are suffering, and voluntarily ending your life only leads to consequences and does not solve anything; all life is sacred. So be gentle with yourself and go through this difficult time with a soft and kind heart.

Community support and external help might help (Ant message).

Edit : I just stumbled upon this reminder "By oneself one suffers: by oneself evil is left undone, by oneself one is purified. Purity and impurity belong to oneself, no one can purify another.—Chapter 12, Dhammapada.

Appreciate the assistance, Jean

[Jhanananda]

Ok 👌 I hear you

So what am I in your sincere judgment? A scholar like Underhill? Are my still mind, vibrations, inner sound, and poor OOBEs nonattainment to you?

Is climbing the ladder of divine ascent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ladder_of_Divine_Ascent nonattainment in your judgment?

I’m sorry. The central thing is I just don’t experience bliss and joy, piti and sukkha, when I meditate. It’s why it’s so difficult for me to meditate. Is my personal trauma and self-loathing the cause of this? What are my errors?

Would you be willing to FaceTime with me and correct me? What makes me incorrigible?

Thank you, Michael, Jean and Inedible for posting your wise advice.

Alexander, it is important for you to self-reflect upon how it is that you got where you are now, because I am certain that you will find your way out by doing so. However, since you state you are not experiencing bliss, joy and ecstasy during your meditations, then this might be a key for you to find the success in meditation that you are seeking. Please review the discussion that we have had on the thread Set and Setting.

[Alexander]

Ok 👌 I hear you

So what am I in your sincere judgment? A scholar like Underhill? Are my still mind, vibrations, inner sound, and poor OOBEs nonattainment to you?

Is climbing the ladder of divine ascent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ladder_of_Divine_Ascent nonattainment in your judgment?

I’m sorry. The central thing is I just don’t experience bliss and joy, piti and sukkha, when I meditate. It’s why it’s so difficult for me to meditate. Is my personal trauma and self-loathing the cause of this? What are my errors?

Would you be willing to FaceTime with me and correct me? What makes me incorrigible?

Thank you, Michael, Jean and Inedible for posting your wise advice.

Alexander, it is important for you to self-reflect upon how it is that you got where you are now, because I am certain that you will find your way out by doing so. However, since you state you are to experiencing bliss, joy and ecstasy during your meditations, then this might be a key for you to find the success in meditation that you are seeking. Please review the discussion that we have had on the thread Set and Setting.

I agree, and am making the best use of my time here to meditate, when I’m not suffering under the effects of the psychiatric drugs. The key missing attainment is piti and sukkha. Ironically I can provoke these listening to music, playing a computer game, or dialoguing with people, but it fascinates me you, Michael, and Rougeleader experience them from sitting.

I do recall binge watching your videos on YouTube 15 years ago, and listening to Aphex Twin’s ambient works, and feeling for short intervals episodes of bliss.

I’m a damaged person now. But “God loves the damaged, forgotten, and broken.” One ☝️ day at a time.

I'm closing in on 40 years. 15 years makes you a beginner. I can't believe you are seriously saying you are any kind of expert. From what you are saying it sounds like you are claiming more than you have attained. Just by the basic definitions of the terms. That isn't a bad thing. When you realize that you are off course, the sooner you correct it the easier it will be to get where you want to go.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are writing when I am in the midst of my worst personal crisis. Despite my practices, 15-17 years of adult sexual ptsd came to the surface as I went mad due to a cascade of grief, disappointment, rejection, and loss last year.

[rougeleader115]

Alexander,

I did go through the posts that Jeffrey recommended, and I have to say the things he talks were the biggest factor for me personally. I had a lot of struggle even when I did start experiencing bliss because it was so outside of my psychological understanding that I even mistook it for anxiety at some levels of intensity. I remember asking Jeffery if it was okay to view it as a motherly energy, just so my mind would accept the deeper waves of bliss without as much fear. I didn't want to make something up in my head for practice, but utilizing the different methods he mentions, I have been able to change the way I interpret my experience. Using music, scents, and whatever mystic texts or images that bring me peace or remind me of the depth of my meditative experience helps me dive deep with tremendously less fear and difficulty. In my first 2 years of practice, I was mainly viewing the charisms as just internal signs that signify my depth (which they do!). But when I started to actually view them as the sacred, and somehow an expression of my experience with the godhead manifesting in daily life and meditation, things shifted dramatically. It stopped being just random signs that i forced to appear through meditation, and began to feel like "though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me".

I say all that just to give an example. So you can test for yourself what brings the sacred in you and go for it. I have used so many different ways including using the love I have felt for others, many various genres of music (especially religious/spiritual), and listening to sacred/mystic texts from anywhere that helps deepen my understanding and lessen my fear about entering deep bliss and annihilation.

Be easy and honest with yourself while you navigate all these things.

Best Wishes
Rougeleader

[Alexander]

Alexander,

I did go through the posts that Jeffrey recommended, and I have to say the things he talks were the biggest factor for me personally. I had a lot of struggle even when I did start experiencing bliss because it was so outside of my psychological understanding that I even mistook it for anxiety at some levels of intensity. I remember asking Jeffery if it was okay to view it as a motherly energy, just so my mind would accept the deeper waves of bliss without as much fear. I didn't want to make something up in my head for practice, but utilizing the different methods he mentions, I have been able to change the way I interpret my experience. Using music, scents, and whatever mystic texts or images that bring me peace or remind me of the depth of my meditative experience helps me dive deep with tremendously less fear and difficulty. In my first 2 years of practice, I was mainly viewing the charisms as just internal signs that signify my depth (which they do!). But when I started to actually view them as the sacred, and somehow an expression of my experience with the godhead manifesting in daily life and meditation, things shifted dramatically. It stopped being just random signs that i forced to appear through meditation, and began to feel like "though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me".

I say all that just to give an example. So you can test for yourself what brings the sacred in you and go for it. I have used so many different ways including using the love I have felt for others, many various genres of music (especially religious/spiritual), and listening to sacred/mystic texts from anywhere that helps deepen my understanding and lessen my fear about entering deep bliss and annihilation.

Be easy and honest with yourself while you navigate all these things.

Best Wishes
Rougeleader

Appreciated

[Tad]

Alexander,

What happens if you dont take those heavy drugs? Im pretty sure strong mind altering drugs both medicinal and recreational affect internal energy and ability to deeply meditate. One of the reasons why no intoxicants is included in the precepts.

But we can only work within our karma. So if you have to use medicine that limits deep meditation, it is what it is. If I remember correctly, St John of the Cross said that if contemplation is not working for someone, then maybe God has other plans for them. Or like Ajahn Chah said, if you dont get enlightened in this life time, it's ok, you can get enlightened in the next one 

[Alexander]

Alexander,

What happens if you dont take those heavy drugs? Im pretty sure strong mind altering drugs both medicinal and recreational affect internal energy and ability to deeply meditate. One of the reasons why no intoxicants is included in the precepts.

But we can only work within our karma. So if you have to use medicine that limits deep meditation, it is what it is. If I remember correctly, St John of the Cross said that if contemplation is not working for someone, then maybe God has other plans for them. Or like Ajahn Chah said, if you dont get enlightened in this life time, it's ok, you can get enlightened in the next one 

The latest drug is one of the most innocuous they can give me, however since receiving it I’ve experienced truly Alzheimer’s type levels of forgetfulness. I completely memory “poofed” three times drafting my last message here. It appears quetiapine blocks acetylcholine (?I’m a moron, don’t mind me) which is what’s hurt my working memory so badly.