Exposing Sadguru Jaggi Vasudev of the Isha Yoga Center

[nkrivosh]

Hi Jhanananda,

Not being content with my achievements in meditation, I continue my search which has taken me to South India. I am staying at the Isha Yoga Center where I wanted to see for my self if there is anything special about the Dyanalinga which is supposedly charged to the max with chakra energy. I dont understand it but I thought I'd give it a try and see for myself. Having spent 5 days here so far I still have not noticed anything special about it. But anyway, I dont mean to doubt, maybe I am not sensitive to feel it or maybe there is some other problem. Being here for some time I have a chance to learn some Kriya Yoga/Pranayam techniques. Jhanananda, have you had any experience with Pranayama? From reading about it in Vivekanadas - Raja Yoga, it seems to be leading to the same place, but the description involves concepts I dont understand such as Prana. Is there a Buddhist equivalent to the term prana?

I also want to ask you a few question which I've accumulated over the past month or so.

1. Why in Buddhism there are 4 great primaries (none of which I seem to understand) earth,water,wind,fire, But in Hinduism there are 5, 5th primary being ether.

2. Since I dont understand the cause of restlessness I also dont understand which actions encourage it and which elliminate it - or at least dont increase it. WHile in a state of restlessness there is a tendency to "run away". In this condition do you think its ok to use Dhamma/spiritual books which give inspiration, although I've notice that its only temporary help and the restlessness returns after some time.

3.In your account of past lives which u've seen, you mention them going back to the time of Neanderthal. Are u 100% certain that this isn't the power of mind/imagination, and what about rebirths in different realms and as different species. Maybe its important to consider the understanding of imagination. How do u understand imagination and its effect of meditation and its effects on physiology? Can it be used as a tool, should it be used?

4.Do you understand Kamma in the same way as it is described in the suttas?

thanks, I hope you are well and 2013 started off nicely for you.
Nikita

[Jhanananda]

Hello again, Nikita, it is a pleasure to receive another message from you.

Hi Jhanananda,

Not being content with my achievements in meditation,

Until we find complete and utter contentment in the contemplative life, we will continue to search.  Eventually we will find one or more people with the authentic religious experience, and then we will find the method.  Until then we will just keep on searching.

I continue my search which has taken me to South India. I am staying at the Isha Yoga Center where I wanted to see for my self if there is anything special about the Dyanalinga which is supposedly charged to the max with chakra energy. I dont understand it but I thought I'd give it a try and see for myself. Having spent 5 days here so far I still have not noticed anything special about it. But anyway, I dont mean to doubt, maybe I am not sensitive to feel it or maybe there is some other problem.

Religious places and objects have no intrinsic spiritual substance in them selves, which would be called in various languages: virtue, virya, prana, qi, etc.  However, a places and/or object can become imbued with spiritual substance if the genuinely enlightened come to that place or object, and some do.  However, the mass of people who go on pilgrimages are the naive with money, who want to tell their friends they visited a holy place.  These people carry no spiritual substance, virtue, virya, prana, qi, etc.

Also, the power of a "vortex" is only in what the seeker brings to it.  If the seeker is sincere, and disciplined, then that person will gain from the experience.  If, on the other hand, the person is just a naive pilgrim in search of a tale to tell over a drink, then that person is not likely to gain much from the experience.

Additionally, the world is full of temples and pilgrimage sites; however, the world has also been marginalizing its mystics all along.  So, who is likely to have been at that temple, or holy place, who built it?  Well, it was most probably built by the hegemonic ruler, who used the religion and its objects in commerce for power.  So, for me, all of the fantastic religious architecture of the world are nothing but temples to someone's pursuit of: name, fame, power, greed, lust, averice, etc.

Being here for some time I have a chance to learn some Kriya Yoga/Pranayam techniques. Jhanananda, have you had any experience with Pranayama? From reading about it in Vivekanadas - Raja Yoga, it seems to be leading to the same place, but the description involves concepts I dont understand such as Prana. Is there a Buddhist equivalent to the term prana?

Yes, I have read Vivekananda and I translated the yoga sutras. While the term 'Pranayama' appears in the yoga sutras, they are not described there, so we do not know if Patanjali was referring to alternate nostril breathing or something else.

Pranayama roughly means "in-out breath," in the same way that anapana means "in-out breath."  Since Siddhartha Gautama's discourses clearly describe anapana as a meditation technique, and not as a formal pushing on alternate nostrils, and Patanjali was somewhat contemporaneous with Siddhartha Gautama, and religions tend to get the message of the mystics completely wrong, then I believe it is reasonable to conclude that sitting while pushing on alternate nostrils is a complete waste of time. 

I lived in several yoga ashrams from 1974 to about 1976, and I practiced Pranayama a few times during that time period.  I found it a complete waste of time, and got absolutely nothing out of the practice.  I prefer to just meditate deeply.

I also want to ask you a few question which I've accumulated over the past month or so.

1. Why in Buddhism there are 4 great primaries (none of which I seem to understand) earth,water,wind,fire, But in Hinduism there are 5, 5th primary being ether.

I spent a few years of studying various alchemical systems, trying to answer the same question.  In the systems that only have 4 elements, instead of five, then air is the same as ether.  That is all.

2. Since I dont understand the cause of restlessness I also dont understand which actions encourage it and which elliminate it - or at least dont increase it. WHile in a state of restlessness there is a tendency to "run away". In this condition do you think its ok to use Dhamma/spiritual books which give inspiration, although I've notice that its only temporary help and the restlessness returns after some time.

Well, there can be a number of reasons why one is afflicted with restlessness.  Perhaps one simply needs some regular physical exercise.  Or, perhaps the mind is restlessness, then one practices meditation, and macks some radical changes in one's lifestyle, and works on cultivating peace, tranquility, the stilling of the mind, and equanimity.  When one stills one's mind and keeps it still most of the day, then there will be no restlessness.

3.In your account of past lives which u've seen, you mention them going back to the time of Neanderthal. Are u 100% certain that this isn't the power of mind/imagination, and what about rebirths in different realms and as different species. Maybe its important to consider the understanding of imagination. How do u understand imagination and its effect of meditation and its effects on physiology? Can it be used as a tool, should it be used?

Well, this is several different questions, but I will attempt to cover both.  The criticism of those with no attainment of those with attainment is that we mystics are making it all up.  Well, those with genuine attainment could not possibly have made it all up, and have it so much alike cross culturally from Siddhartha Gautama to Teresa of Avila.

So, my recollection of previous lifetimes was not at all from an over active imagination.  It was the product of deep meditation beyond the stilling of the mind.  When the mind is still, one's imagination is not active, so then whatever arises is genuine experience. 

Whereas, most religious seekers, are naive, never engage in a contemplative life, and want some tale to tell over a drink, so they make up a fantastic emotional experience to impress the other followers.  This is mostly7 what happens in the Pentecostal religious services of people rolling in the isles and barking like dogs.

I have incarnated on different planets, and I have visited many realms of existence.

So, back to imagination.  Imagination is just mind games, so give it, and still the mind, and learn to meditate deeply.

4.Do you understand Kamma in the same way as it is described in the suttas?

thanks, I hope you are well and 2013 started off nicely for you.
Nikita

Kamma (karma) is habits of the mind that lead to distraction; whereas, the contemplative seeks to still the mind so that there are no more habits, then one meditates deeply to freedom, emancipation and enlightenment.

[nkrivosh]

Hi Jhanananda,

thanks for the detailed replies as always.

My question regarding imagination though is due to personal experiences also. When I meditate for a long time, sometimes very vivid imagery appears for me as if out of nowhere, I am not consciously creating it. I have also began to suspect that much of what we experience in meditation although undeniably being genuine experiences of one sort or the other, at some point the analytical mind categorizes the experience as being this or that, of this source/cause or another. SO in one sense there is the experience and in another sense this experience is categorized or labeled. So i was wondering of sometimes people interpret imagery that suddenly comes up in meditation as being memories of past lives or whatever. I dont mean to discredit ur experiences, I just want to understand my experiences better from correlating with others.

The place where I am now is called Isha Yoga Center. I have found that most people here actually do lots of practice including meditation/yoga/mantras and other sadhanas which make no sense to me. The guru's name here is Sadguru Jaggi Vasudev, he is definitely very highly regarded here with many miraculous experiences attributed to him, such as knowing the minds of others, healing people, being able to change people consciousness by touching them at the spine, among many other things . He may be genuine, but lots of what goes on here makes absolutely no sense to me (actually nothing makes much sense... hahaha) such as ceremonies which are supposed to help spiritual growth, applying ash to various places on the body, wearing rudraksh... one of the things Sadguru has created is this Dyanalinga. He consecrated it with the energies of the seven chakras and locked them at their peak, and this is supposed to help spiritual seekers who are near it. Consecration means nothing to me, I dont understand it either. Maybe its real, many people here claim to sense some powerful energy all around it. ALso Sadguru himself never practiced the stuff he teaches to his brahmacharies, but he says he completed his sadhana in previous lives. the primary purpose of this life was to complete this Dyanalinga.

Also I met a guy here who is a politician, he doesnt practice anything and although he has had lots of evidence to support the existance of a greater reality than the mundane he still considers search for enlightenment to be for the stupid (haha). He told me that one particular yogi was levitating in front of him with no room for trickery as it was done on his property with no props or anything (just food for though, not my experience but I have no reason to think this guy is lying or is easily fooled and tricked). Many strange experiences have been happening... but everything is quite strange in the state of confusion and bewilderment.

Lastly, I tried to give u a donation via paypal multiple times but it never let me do it, I dont know why, maybe because I am trying to do it from a foreign country... I'll try again, I want to make sure u are around to help me on my path going foreward   . Is there another way u can receive donations? such as via bank transfer? thanks     

[Jhanananda]

Hi Jhanananda,

thanks for the detailed replies as always.

My question regarding imagination though is due to personal experiences also. When I meditate for a long time, sometimes very vivid imagery appears for me as if out of nowhere, I am not consciously creating it.

This is not imagination.  Imagination requires an intent to create images in the mind, which are called mental projections.  The key here is whether you can still your mind.  If your mind is still, and images appear then we call those images 'visions.'

I have also began to suspect that much of what we experience in meditation although undeniably being genuine experiences of one sort or the other, at some point the analytical mind categorizes the experience as being this or that, of this source/cause or another. SO in one sense there is the experience and in another sense this experience is categorized or labeled.

This is doubt created by a mind, which is always trying to figure things out, but it can't.  So, just keep the mind still.  The mind is good for critical thinking, so use it for that, but it cannot figure out the immaterial phenomena of the spiritual dimension.

So i was wondering of sometimes people interpret imagery that suddenly comes up in meditation as being memories of past lives or whatever. I dont mean to discredit ur experiences, I just want to understand my experiences better from correlating with others.

For the most part people are not rigorous, self-aware contemplatives, so such a person who never meditates attends one long meditation retreat, then sure, that person might create for themselves some fantastic illusion. 

However, a rigorous, self-aware contemplative who is skilled at stilling the mind, is not creating fantastic illusions.  Thus the visions that these people have are genuine insights into the spiritual dimension, and past lifetimes.  Such a person will have insight as to the nature of the vision.  One, then just knows without a doubt, this is true, this is a past lifetime, or this is the heavenly domains, etc. 

Lucidity is another factor.  A true vision is generally hyper-real.

The place where I am now is called Isha Yoga Center. I have found that most people here actually do lots of practice including meditation/yoga/mantras and other sadhanas which make no sense to me. The guru's name here is Sadguru Jaggi Vasudev, he is definitely very highly regarded here with many miraculous experiences attributed to him, such as knowing the minds of others, healing people, being able to change people consciousness by touching them at the spine, among many other things . He may be genuine, but lots of what goes on here makes absolutely no sense to me (actually nothing makes much sense... hahaha) such as ceremonies which are supposed to help spiritual growth, applying ash to various places on the body, wearing rudraksh... one of the things Sadguru has created is this Dyanalinga. He consecrated it with the energies of the seven chakras and locked them at their peak, and this is supposed to help spiritual seekers who are near it. Consecration means nothing to me, I dont understand it either. Maybe its real, many people here claim to sense some powerful energy all around it. ALso Sadguru himself never practiced the stuff he teaches to his brahmacharies, but he says he completed his sadhana in previous lives. the primary purpose of this life was to complete this Dyanalinga.

Sounds like a classic fraud to me.  People seem to look in all of the wrong places for enlightenment.  You will know a tree by its fruit.

The characteristics of the genuinely enlightened are: he or she was and is still a rigorous, self-aware contemplative, and inspires others to do so; the stilling of the mind is a key component; attainment of 8 stages of religious experience, which are lucidly described in detail, and characterized by bliss, joy and ecstasy; OOBEs/raptures; freedom from the 7 deadly sins/10 fetters/hindrances; his or her students manifest these enlightened qualities; his/her teaching does not depend upon faith, just leading a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life; his/her teaching is based upon a correct translation and interpretation of previous enlightened teachers teachings; and no magic tricks.

The world abounds with spiritual frauds.  How do we know who is a fraud?  You will know a tree by its fruit.  The person was never a rigorous, self-aware contemplative; there is no dialog inspiring people to still the mind; there is no description of 8 stages of religious experience; there is no context for bliss, joy and ecstasy; no OOBEs/raptures; the teacher manifests one or more of the 7 deadly sins/10 fetters/hindrances; there are lots of stories of magic tricks; his/her teaching is based upon a deeply flawed translation and interpretation of previous enlightened teachers teachings; therefore his/her teaching requires faith, and will not standup to critical review; his or her students do not manifest enlightened qualities.

Also I met a guy here who is a politician, he doesnt practice anything and although he has had lots of evidence to support the existance of a greater reality than the mundane he still considers search for enlightenment to be for the stupid (haha). He told me that one particular yogi was levitating in front of him with no room for trickery as it was done on his property with no props or anything (just food for though, not my experience but I have no reason to think this guy is lying or is easily fooled and tricked). Many strange experiences have been happening... but everything is quite strange in the state of confusion and bewilderment.

It is all too easy to fool the fool; but it is very difficult to convince the fool to lead a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life.

Lastly, I tried to give u a donation via paypal multiple times but it never let me do it, I dont know why, maybe because I am trying to do it from a foreign country... I'll try again, I want to make sure u are around to help me on my path going foreward   . Is there another way u can receive donations? such as via bank transfer? thanks     

I suppose a bank transfer can be done, but people click the link above and can donate to me and the GWV.  Perhaps you are using the wrong email address?
Jhanananda@greatwesternvehicle.org
or
jhananda@greatwesternvehicle.org

Since this topic became more about exposing "Sadguru" Jaggi Vasudev of the Isha Yoga Center, and other religious frauds, then I moved the topic to "Unpacking Religion" and renamed it "exposing "Sadguru" Jaggi Vasudev of the Isha Yoga Center."

Strive on, Jeffrey Brooks (Arahatta Jhananda)

[nkrivosh]

thanks again,

The donation worked this time, maybe because I tried a different amount.

So do you believe that anyone has miraculous powers such as levitation, being in multiple places at the same time, becoming invisible, etc etc? such power are also listed in the Buddhas Suttas and there are uncountable cases of miraculous events happening throughout the world to different people at various times across cultures.

[Jhanananda]

thanks again,

The donation worked this time, maybe because I tried a different amount.

Thank-you for the donation, received.  Donations help preserve the services of the GWV and to expand them.  My goal has been to create a retreat center where contemplatives who are interested in cultivating the fruit of the contemplative life can do so without fear of being marginalized.

So do you believe that anyone has miraculous powers such as levitation, being in multiple places at the same time, becoming invisible, etc etc? such power are also listed in the Buddhas Suttas and there are uncountable cases of miraculous events happening throughout the world to different people at various times across cultures.

We have been here with this question many times, because if I, and my case histories, provide proof that various fruit of the contemplative life are attainable, such as: the 8 stages of religious experience; OOBEs; freedom from addictive behaviors/sins/fetters/hindrances; etc., then we should also be able to do more fantastic miracles, such as: walk on water; raise the dead; part the seas; bring water from stone; levitate; bilocate; become invisible, etc. However, I cannot do any of those fantastic miracles, but I can, and do regularly, the other less fantastic miracles, such as: the 8 stages of religious experience; OOBEs; freedom from addictive behaviors/sins/fetters/hindrances; etc.

I reason that religion is more business than it is a path to enlightenment, so it is good for business if you raise the bar so high that no one could ever reach it, such as claiming fantastic miracles are possible, such as: walking on water; raise the dead; part the seas; bring water from stone; levitate; bilocate; become invisible, etc.

[Cybermonk]

Aloha to you nkrivosh,

I just finished reading your post and Jeffreys replies and I
thoroughly enjoyed the exchange.

It called to mind a story a tourist from India told me, of how
he had gone to a center in a town, where a well known feat
of magic would be preformed, the miracle of "the free standing
rope."

One there,he saw an old man, a boy and a rope. Suddenly the
rope leaped into the air and remained vertically upright.
The boy climbed up the rope and disappeared. The old man
yelled for the boy to come down, then cursed and climbed
the rope after the boy, while holding a dagger in his teeth.
The old man disappeared, then the blade fell to the ground
covered in blood. Then the rope fell and another boy rushed
from the crowd, grabed the rope and dagger and ran off.

All in the crowd where shocked. Luckily, the tourist had been
taking pictures and when they were developed, they showed
the old man and the boy just standing there, not moving,
with the rope.

Ha! A good story, or a type of crowd hypnosis. The tourist
showed us the pictures. A tale for a drink? He swears its
true.
Kimo

[nkrivosh]

cybermonk, thanks for the cool story, I will definitely keep that one in mind, it is really amazing how strongly people can be hypnotized, I wonder to what extent it happens and who is more prone to it. I wonder if I would also see the same trick with the rope and knife. Thanks for sharing.

I also want to correct a little statement; earlier I stated that Sadguru never practiced what he teaches, but I recently found out that in his youth he did have a yoga teacher and pracrticed it regularly for about 15 years along with some pranayama practice. I also have met many people now who tell me that if I practice the techinique tought by sadguru, it is certain to produce results suc h as feeling some energy, which I apparently am unaware of. If it is so scientific, I dont see anything wrong wioth trying it out. Maybe I will, not sure yet.

Jhanananda, as always I value what you say and take your advice seriously, but I want to make a suggestion to you. You are a good meditator and can help many people, but so many people have been turned away from you because of the reputation you got from other "masters" and criticism online. It seems that much of the problem is you criticizing these other "teachers". Now I dont think it is wrong to criticize people if you have a good basis to for it and know the person well, but I seems to me you have on a number of occasions have written people off as frauds too easily and quickly without having sufficient reason or based on hearsay, or misinformation such as my musings about Sadguru. You may very well be correct, but dont you think it would be better to just admit that you dont know for sure, taking a more humble, less critical perspective and thus making less enemies and thus even being able to help a larger amount of people who would be drawn to what you say for advice. I say this because I think that people like you have much to teach others, and wish that others are not put off by you based on your criticisms of so many teachers. I am now in Tiruvanamalai, famous for many things amongst which is the place of Ramana Maharshi, there are many genuine meditators that I have met. I think there is hope for them. thanks, Nikita

[Jhanananda]

There are a few things to get, nkrivosh, about my work and the GWV.  There are very few people on this planet who are genuinely interested in enlightenment in this very lifetime, so there are very few people who are going to do what it takes, no matter what, to become enlightened in this very lifetime.  My work and that of the GWV is all in support of those who wish only enlightenment in this very lifetime.

To become enlightened in this very lifetime one simply must exercise a great deal of critical thinking to sort through the mass of misinformation and frauds that abound in all religions.

You asked my opinion of Jaggi of the Isha Yoga Center, I looked at what you had given me, and gave you my opinion.  The bottom line is we "know a tree by its fruit" (Luke 6:44).  That fruit is: critical thinking; following ethics, leading a rigorous, self-aware, contemplative life; teaching an ethical, rigorous, self-aware, contemplative life, manifesting the fruit there of; and the rigorous followers of that person must also be manifesting these fruit.  I did not see any of that, but I did see magic tricks, devotion, and religious practices without manifesting the above fruit.

Strive on to enlightenment, Jeffrey Brooks (Arahatta Jhananda)

[Alexander]

thanks again,

The donation worked this time, maybe because I tried a different amount.

So do you believe that anyone has miraculous powers such as levitation, being in multiple places at the same time, becoming invisible, etc etc? such power are also listed in the Buddhas Suttas and there are uncountable cases of miraculous events happening throughout the world to different people at various times across cultures.

I am not entirely ruling them as impossible, and if anyone -could- do these things it would probably be proper contemplatives. I know -of- a person who can heal others (hearsay's hearsay) but I cannot do it myself.

[Cybermonk]

Aloha to you Aglorrinz,

Check out this site, perhaps read their free e-manual and apply
your critical thinking to what they are working with  Of course they
want $ to have someone personally teach you, but that is not
necessary. Their basic purpose is to show you the so called"phase"
state and how to use it.

What is it? Go see! http://school.obe4u.com
Party on,
Kimo

[Jhanananda]

The thing to get about my work is it is beyond techniques.  I have found all one needs to do is lead a rigorous, self-aware, ethical, contemplative life, and one will get ALL of the superior fruit (maha-phala), not just OOBEs.

Once one has stilled the mind, then one is beyond the technique.  So, just still the mind, and keep it still and meditate with depth.  That is it.

[Sam Lim]

How very right.

[nkrivosh]

I understand this thing about stilling the mind and see the tremendous value in it. But I have certain confusion. I meet people who seem to be sensitive to some sort of energy (spiritual energy, vortexes, spaces being charged in certain ways) which I seem to be unaware of. And they speak of it confidently. I feel like if I dont understand what they are talking about I will be missing out on something important. Will a strong foundation in "stilling the mind" allow me to become sensitive to these things? I have had a still mind in the past and from time to time now, but have never felt this stuff .

[Jhanananda]

How very right.

Thanks, Sam.  I know you know what I am talking about.  We have been contemplative friends for a very long time.

I understand this thing about stilling the mind and see the tremendous value in it. But I have certain confusion. I meet people who seem to be sensitive to some sort of energy (spiritual energy, vortexes, spaces being charged in certain ways) which I seem to be unaware of. And they speak of it confidently. I feel like if I dont understand what they are talking about I will be missing out on something important. Will a strong foundation in "stilling the mind" allow me to become sensitive to these things? I have had a still mind in the past and from time to time now, but have never felt this stuff .

I live in Sedona, AZ, USA.  It is a spiritual amusement park, where anyone can come, and for a price get a tour of the "vortexes" here, which is led by a "genuine" psychic.

I have been a rigorous, ethical, self-aware contemplative for nearly 40 years in that time I have met many frauds: sex-addicts claiming to be gurus; drunken Indians claiming to be shaman; and just a lot of naive people who want to feel important, who have a miracle story about a guru, or ghost stories, or UFO stories, or alien abduction stories, etc.

The first ashram I lived in was a 3HO ashram in Tucson, AZ, USA.  After a month of being there the guru, Yogi Bhajhan, came to visit.  He aggressively marketed himself as the "guru for the Aquarian age." I found him to be an insufferable ass every time I had the displeasure of being in his company, which was several times.  At no time did I ever have a "spiritual" experience with him, although all of the ashramites spoke glowingly of his spiritual powers and/or presence.  He died a few years ago with 750 million dollars in assets.  Do you think that the Messiah/Buddha/Christ/Avatar of this age would amass a fortune of any kind?  No, I would think that the Messiah/Buddha/Christ/Avatar of this age would spend most of his time, money and effort on enlightening as many people as he/she could.

So, nkrivosh, still your mind, master stilling your mind, but know that it is just a door way into much, much more, which is the superior fruit (maha-phala) of the contemplative life.  However, without mastering the stilling of your mind, you will have little superior attainment.  And, know that most people are not rigorous, ethical, self-aware contemplatives; but are just naive people who want to feel important so they make up miracle stories to make themselves seem important; and they will look in all of the wrong places for spiritual guidance.