Mystical Brain (movie)

[Jhanananda]

I have taken ayahuasca, peyote, mushrooms, and salvia in the investigation of the altered states they promote.  I could elaborate on the various experiences therin, but at this point the only thing worth mentioning seems to be that whatever revelations or energetic breakthroughs i had at the time did not stick around and did not help my spiritual transformation process.  In fact i think that it took my brain and subtle energtic system some time to recover to a more natural balance after the trip.  They might have their places for somebody who isn't meditating and needs a jolt just to recall the spiritual experience, otherwise meditation is the way to go.   I hope i'm not ever tempted to waste my time with them again in this life.

I agree, and this was my experience with dabbling in psychedelics.

This is a good point. I'm only sharing that I'm aware a few ibogaine trips have helped many to eliminate opiate addiction. Because of how difficult the ibogaine experience can be, they don't come back to use ibogaine again once they've accomplished the goal.

Yes, I am aware of the claim that psychedelics have been known to help people overcome addiction.  Since many of us here have at one time or another taken a psychedelic, then it could be argued that psychedelics lead to the contemplative life and the religious experience; it could even be argued that psychedelics are required for attainment; however, both claims would be wrong.  Thus, unless you have direct experience with overcoming addiction to substances through the use of ibogaine, then you might be repeating a flawed conclusion of some so-called researcher.

Psychedelics were how I overcame my alcoholism. It just lost its appeal in comparison to what psychedelics could offer. Then I lost interest in psychedelics when I began attaining jhana.

A rigorous, self-aware contemplative life is ideal, but as roamer said, some people, like me, can benefit from psychedlic trips. I do not think I would have gained the conviction to really hunker down on meditating and searching for jhana if I hadn't experienced jhana-like things in psychedlia. It helped me see that there were spiritual phenomena that I wasn't really aware of. It was a wake-up call.

In this case it is helpful when you speak from direct experience.  Please understand that, while many of us have had psychedelic experience, and it was those experience that brought us to the contemplative life, it is necessary for me to keep this forum from becoming just another discussion forum advocating the use of psychedelics.  It is hard enough for me to get across to the world that deep mediation can solve their problems; and the mentality of "drive-thru-therapy" that is at the basis of the psychedelic experience, will not lead to solving those problems.

[Jhanon]

I felt that we should avoid this becoming another psychedelic mania. So I agree with most of what you've said. Earlier I agreed with roamer that I don't advocate psychedelic use. I'm almost saddened that psychedelics so often precede the mystic. Because knowing the fruits of the contemplative mystic path as sublime as they are, urges me to share what influenced me to get here so that perhaps others can arrive at the fruits. And knowing how society often closes mind or quickly judges things like psychedelics, it has recently become something I talk about more and more rarely.

Please forgive the poor grammar above.

[rougeleader115]

Thank you Jhanon, Michel, Jhanananda and Roamer for the contributions to this discussion, it is all very interesting.

A rigorous, self-aware contemplative life is ideal, but as roamer said, some people, like me, can benefit from psychedlic trips. I do not think I would have gained the conviction to really hunker down on meditating and searching for jhana if I hadn't experienced jhana-like things in psychedlia. It helped me see that there were spiritual phenomena that I wasn't really aware of. It was a wake-up call.

Though I have not had much experience with psychedelics (nor do I plan to), I agree here that some of the things I experienced were a wake-up call to drop the drugs and become more dedicated and disciplined in my search. I don't think it was necessary for me to have taken them to experience what I do now, but it gave me a glimpse that there was more available to us than I had previously concluded. Even so, some of my friends continue to argue with me saying that the drugs are what is necessary to experience bliss and see truth, but I still feel that it will only be open to them as long as they are on the drug, then what? So I see why you are against promoting them Jhanananda as many people are already heavily invested in them. I assume my friends think I am making things up about absorption because they do not experience much in meditation. But I try to inform them of your website and tell them its only a matter of time if they try earnestly. Though I am not trying to teach anyone, and I barely feel worthy enough to give even small advice, I hate watching people spin in circles if they are really done with it, so I try to just point them here.

This does make me curious, would I be wrong in trying to help those near me who wish to try finding meditative absorption? I ask because I don't feel qualified to guide them far (only up to some charisms), and I would be unable to help them during a spiritual crisis or dark night, but some seem really desperate to find answers(or at least some relief) and I hate to just leave them to it on their own because I suffered almost incessantly when I felt like that. But I obviously don't want to cause more harm than good. Would it be wiser to just continue quietly until I have better experience? Again my aim is not to be a teacher, just to help.

[Jhanananda]

This does make me curious, would I be wrong in trying to help those near me who wish to try finding meditative absorption? I ask because I don't feel qualified to guide them far (only up to some charisms), and I would be unable to help them during a spiritual crisis or dark night, but some seem really desperate to find answers(or at least some relief) and I hate to just leave them to it on their own because I suffered almost incessantly when I felt like that. But I obviously don't want to cause more harm than good. Would it be wiser to just continue quietly until I have better experience? Again my aim is not to be a teacher, just to help.

Sadly, the truth is you have more attainment than any meditation teacher, priest, guru, Bhante, Bikhu, Roche or Rinpoche, I have ever met.  Now, do not let that go to your head, because all religions are frauds; but you are better qualified than the later to teach meditation, so I think, if you are called to do it, then do it.  You can always direct people with problems here, where they will hopefully continue to find a support community (sangha) whether I am here or not.

[Jhanon]

It is one of my few worldly joys to teach meditation to anyone who will listen, and sometimes even just hear.