Author Topic: World Weariness  (Read 12868 times)

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
World Weariness
« on: January 19, 2014, 03:24:30 PM »
Michael Hawkins' recent blog post reminded me of World Weariness, which is a common theme in contemplative literature, especially that of the mystics. Weltschmerz is a German term that has often been used to name this psychological state of being.
Quote from: wiki
Weltschmerz (from the German, meaning world-pain or world-weariness, pronounced [ˈvɛltʃmɛɐ̯ts]) is a term coined by the German author Jean Paul Richter and denotes the kind of feeling experienced by someone who understands that physical reality can never satisfy the demands of the mind. This kind of world view was widespread among several romantic authors such as Lord Byron, Giacomo Leopardi, François-René de Chateaubriand, Alfred de Musset, Nikolaus Lenau, Hermann Hesse, and Heinrich Heine. It is also used to denote the feeling of sadness when thinking about the evils of the world.

The modern meaning of Weltschmerz in the German language is the psychological pain caused by sadness that can occur when realizing that someone's own weaknesses are caused by the inappropriateness and cruelty of the world and (physical and social) circumstances. Weltschmerz in this meaning can cause depression, resignation and escapism, and can become a mental problem (compare to Hikikomori). The modern meaning should also be compared with the concept of anomie, or a kind of alienation, that Émile Durkheim wrote about in his sociological treatise Suicide.

Applications
John Steinbeck wrote about this feeling in The Winter of Our Discontent and referred to it as the Welshrats; and in East of Eden, Samuel Hamilton feels it after meeting Cathy Trask for the first time. Ralph Ellison uses the term in Invisible Man with regard to the pathos inherent in the singing of spirituals: "...beneath the swiftness of the hot tempo there was a slower tempo and a cave and I entered it and looked around and heard an old woman singing a spiritual as full of Weltschmerz as flamenco." In music, Weltschmerz, and especially dark "romanticism," play an important part in Gothic rock. Kurt Vonnegut references this feeling in his novel Player Piano; it is felt by Doctor Paul Proteus and his father.

See also:

    Acedia
    Angst
    Dukkha
    Lacrimae rerum
    Mal du siècle
    Mean world syndrome
    Melancholia
    Mono no aware
    Nihilism
    Pathos
    Saudade
    Sehnsucht
    Social alienation
    Sturm und Drang
    Suffering
    Theory of mind
    Weltanschauung
    World view
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Michel

  • Guest
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2014, 11:54:23 PM »
Michael Hawkins' recent blog post reminded me of World Weariness, which is a common theme in contemplative literature, especially that of the mystics. Weltschmerz is a German term that has often been used to name this psychological state of being.
I think the Buddhist literature and teachers of all traditions have done a good job of describing the suffering due to the weariness of worldy existence. Wiki covers this so well:
Quote from: wiki
Three patterns[edit]

Within the Buddhist tradition, dukkha is commonly explained according to three different patterns or categories:[e][3][15][16][17][18][19][web 8][web 9][web 10][web 11]
The dukkha of ordinary suffering (dukkha-dukkha) - the obvious physical and mental suffering associated with birth, growing old, illness and dying.
The dukkha produced by change (vipariṇāma-dukkha) - the anxiety or stress of trying to hold onto things that are constantly changing.
The dukkha of conditioned states (saṃkhāra-dukkha) - a basic unsatisfactoriness pervading all forms of existence, because all forms of life are changing, impermanent and without any inner core or substance. On this level, the term indicates a lack of satisfaction, a sense that things never measure up to our expectations or standards.

Dukkha of ordinary suffering[edit]

The dukkha of ordinary suffering (Pali: dukkha-dukkha) is also referred to as the suffering of suffering. This level of dukkha includes:
The physical and mental sufferings of birth, aging, illness, dying.
The anxiety or frustration of coming across what is not desirable.

Geshe Tashi Tsering states:[20]
Even animals understand the suffering of suffering. It is unpleasant and explicitly undesirable. Nobody runs after this form of suffering, and we need no sophisticated explanations to understand it. Nor do we need to devise skillful stratagems to avoid it—animals, insects, and humans are all constantly involved with doing so already, even though none of our attempts seems very skillful. We all wish to be free from this gross suffering.
Dukkha produced by change[edit]

The dukkha produced by change (viparinama-dukkha) is also referred to as:
suffering of change, or
suffering of impermanence.

This level of dukkha includes:
The anxiety or stress of trying to hold onto what is desirable.
The frustration of not getting what you want.

The Tibetan teacher Chogyam Trungpa expands this category to include "not knowing what you want."[21] Pema Chödrön described this type of suffering as "the suffering of trying to hold onto things that are always changing."[citation needed]

Geshe Tashi Tsering states:[22]
Because this level of suffering is much more subtle and not apparent without some analysis, it is more difficult to recognize. Without investigation, objects at this level actually appear to be causes of happiness, because they bring some temporary pleasure. However, if we have mindfulness, we can see them for what they are. Initially, things and events (such as relationships, possessions, and so forth) appear desirable—they look as if they will bring happiness. That’s why we become attracted to them. However, when time passes and circumstances change, the same desirable, handsome, beautiful object turns into something ugly or undesirable—something we want to avoid.
According to Geshe Tashi Tsering, in order to understand this level of dukkha:[23]
[...] we need an understanding of the gross level of impermanence—how things come into being, remain, and then cease by the power of things other than themselves. Things arise by the power of others, and while they remain they are still under the power of others. Their cessation also depends on the power of others. Nothing happens independently. Understanding this gross level of impermanence and the fact that we actually have so little freedom will help us understand the more subtle levels of impermanence.
Dukkha of conditioned states[edit]

The dukkha of conditioned states (sankhara-dukkha) is also referred to as all-pervasive suffering. (This category is also identified as one of the "eight types of suffering".)

This is the deepest, most subtle level of dukkha; it includes "a basic unsatisfactoriness pervading all existence, all forms of life, because all forms of life are changing, impermanent and without any inner core or substance."[web 12] On this level, the term indicates a lack of satisfaction, a sense that things never measure up to our expectations or standards.

This subtle form of suffering arises as a reaction to qualities of conditioned things, including the skandhas, the factors constituting the human mind.

Pema Chodron describes this as the suffering of ego-clinging; the suffering of struggling with life as it is, as it presents itself to you; struggling against outer situations and yourself, your own emotions and thoughts, rather than just opening and allowing.

Phillip Moffitt states:[24]
Every day, even during the pleasant moments, do you not experience an underlying unease about the future? This worry and anxiety is a manifestation of the third type of suffering the Buddha identified – life's inherent unsatisfactoriness due to its insubstantial compositional nature. Each moment arises due to certain conditions, then it just disappears. There is not a lasting or substantial "there there" in daily life, thus it is often described as being like a dream.
Phillip Moffit relates this level of dukkha with existential angst:[25]
How often in your adult life have you experienced the queasiness and unease that come from a sense of meaninglessness in your life? Think of all those occasions when you felt as though you were wasting your life, or sleepwalking through it, or not living from your deepest, most heartfelt sense of your self. Remember the times when you've felt as though there is little you do each day that has any real, lasting significance. We've all fallen prey at some point in our lives to such dark times of self-doubt and existential angst.
Geshe Tashi Tsering states:[26]
This level of suffering, and the causes and conditions that bring it about, can be understood through the teachings on the subtle levels of impermanence. Pervasive suffering is present wherever we are born in cyclic existence; we cannot avoid it. And yet, because its causes and conditions are very deeply rooted, it is very difficult for us, as ordinary people, to even recognize it and acknowledge at all. However, only when we acknowledge it we can begin to abandon it. The effects of pervasive suffering spread throughout our lives and often manifest in the form of grosser sufferings, which makes it difficult for us to really come to grips with it. It is so enmeshed that even understanding it, let alone overcoming it, takes a lot of effort.
Geshe Tashi Tsering asserts that we will not be free of this level of dukkha "until we are free from samsara, until we are buddhas."[27
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 12:05:31 AM by Michel »

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2014, 12:09:02 AM »
I think the Buddhist in all traditions have done a good job of describing the suffering due to the weariness of worldy existence. Wiki covers this so well

Thank-you Michel, for posting the most interesting link to a Wiki on suffering (dukkha; however, I read through it, and it does not seem to me that: Geshe Tashi Tsering, Chogyam Trungpa, Pema Chödrön, Phillip Moffitt, Goenka have any idea what Michael, and I are writing about, but then it is not surprising, because none of them have demonstrated that they know what samadhi is.

The point that Michael Hawkins and I are attempting to get across, is no mater how deeply you meditation, life, and human culture, itself has a quality that strives to erode the bliss, joy and ecstasy that the mystic attains.  Since: Geshe Tashi Tsering, Chogyam Trungpa, Pema Chödrön, Phillip Moffitt, Goenka clearly have never experienced the bliss, joy and ecstasy of samadhi, then it is not surprising that they would have no clue at all what we are discussing here.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 12:18:42 AM by Jhanananda »
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Michel

  • Guest
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2014, 12:42:27 AM »
The point that Michael Hawkins and I are attempting to get across, is no mater how deeply you meditation, life, and human culture, itself has a quality that strives to erode the bliss, joy and ecstasy that the mystic attains.  Since: Geshe Tashi Tsering, Chogyam Trungpa, Pema Chödrön, Phillip Moffitt, Goenka clearly have never experienced the bliss, joy and ecstasy of samadhi, then it is not surprising that they would have no clue at all what we are discussing here.
Perhaps one day I will come to understand more fully how "life, and human culture, itself has a quality that strives to erode the bliss, joy and ecstasy that the mystic attains."  I've already noticed that what little serenity and bliss I have attained from my meditation practice is easily eroded when I have to deal with the affairs of the world.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2014, 12:59:11 AM »
Perhaps one day I will come to understand more fully how "life, and human culture, itself has a quality that strives to erode the bliss, joy and ecstasy that the mystic attains."  I've already noticed that what little serenity and bliss I have attained from my meditation practice is easily eroded when I have to deal with the affairs of the world.
I think you have proof of this in the fact that you have been diagnosed with a mental health condition that requires medication, which suppresses the religious experience.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Michel

  • Guest
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2014, 06:57:33 PM »
Perhaps one day I will come to understand more fully how "life, and human culture, itself has a quality that strives to erode the bliss, joy and ecstasy that the mystic attains."  I've already noticed that what little serenity and bliss I have attained from my meditation practice is easily eroded when I have to deal with the affairs of the world.
I think you have proof of this in the fact that you have been diagnosed with a mental health condition that requires medication, which suppresses the religious experience.
It is inevitable that if I wish to go deeper in my meditation practice, than just stilling the mind, I'll have to withdraw from my meds. When I'm ready to do this, we'll discuss it in detail.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2014, 08:42:33 PM »
Perhaps one day I will come to understand more fully how "life, and human culture, itself has a quality that strives to erode the bliss, joy and ecstasy that the mystic attains."  I've already noticed that what little serenity and bliss I have attained from my meditation practice is easily eroded when I have to deal with the affairs of the world.
I think you have proof of this in the fact that you have been diagnosed with a mental health condition that requires medication, which suppresses the religious experience.
It is inevitable that if I wish to go deeper in my meditation practice, than just stilling the mind, I'll have to withdraw from my meds. When I'm ready to do this, we'll discuss it in detail.
I agree, and if you never feel comfortable about withdrawing from your meds, then that is definitely up to you, with no judgement from me.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Alexander

  • (Shivaswara)
  • vetted member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1123
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2014, 10:21:40 PM »
The idea to bipolar is that it's caused by an imbalance of chemicals in the brain. Medication regulates that chemistry, and for a physician, prescribing medication is the best thing he can do for you. That said, the mind is the most complex thing in the world. That chemistry does not exist in itself, but it exists in a relationship with your (1) thoughts, (2) past experiences, and (3) critical reason. For example, I would argue that it is impossible to enter a mania if your critical reason is developed enough to understand what is happening. In addition, even a feeble critical reason should be equipped enough to keep you from doing something you'd regret while in a manic state.

There  is a "cure" for mental illness, but it means mastery in several areas:

- First, having knowledge of (and mastery over) your thoughts. This means having knowledge of every thought you have; and having the power to stop your thoughts, expel painful ones, and, in general, to be able to direct the flow of them. In reference to the jhanas, this implies you'd be at the second jhana (the still mind includes those powers).

- Second, there is a need for you, from your own nature, to be able to regulate or balance your chemistry*. This requires the spiritual crisis.

- Finally, an intensive knowledge of yourself and of all your past experiences is needed. For the major part of the path, your past experiences are the "material" with which you work. As you get to know yourself better you realize how many illusions you have; how wretched you are; and how cruel or miserly you are.

Here are some hard questions a guru could ask, to help you get to know yourself:

What are my sins?
Have I caused harm to others? Who?
What women have I slept with? Or, who have I not slept with? (:))
Even going back to childhood, what experiences do I have that are painful, or in conflict with my image of who I am?

An excellent parable about people is that we all live in a small room of a big mansion. This is a great analogy for human psychology. The whole mansion is ours - we should own our past - but instead we live in a small, drab apartment.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 02:28:28 AM by aglorincz »
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Michel

  • Guest
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2014, 12:10:18 AM »
The idea to bipolar is that it's caused by an imbalance of chemicals in the brain. Medication regulates that chemistry, and for a physician, prescribing medication is the best thing he can do for you.
Sometimes I wonder about that. My theory is that it could be that the spirit or subconciousness, which has enormous energy, is trying to emerge to the surface in a battle for supremacy with the intellect or ego, which is trying to suppress the spirit, resulting in thoughts of manic frenzy, confusion and chaos. The intellect just doesn't know how to handle all that energy, and is totally overwhelmed going indiscriminately into distraction after distraction. 
That said, the mind is the most complex thing in the world. That chemistry does not exist in itself, but it exists in a relationship with your (1) thoughts, (2) past experiences, and (3) critical reason. For example, I would argue that it is impossible to enter a mania if your critical reason is developed enough to understand what is happening. In addition, even a feeble critical reason should be equipped enough to keep you from doing something you'd regret while in a manic state
There  is a "cure" for mental illness, but it means mastery in several areas:

- First, having knowledge of (and mastery over) your thoughts. This means having knowledge of every thought you have; and having the power to stop your thoughts, expel painful ones, and, in general, to be able to direct the flow of them. In reference to the jhanas, this implies you'd be at the second jhana (the still mind includes those powers)..
This is really good, aglorincz. Very insightful. I've never heard anything like this. Practicing Right Effort and Right Mindfulness is the training that will lead to mastery of thoughts and mind states. Stilling the mind is something I hope to develop. So the next time I experience manic states, I'll be far from helpless by applying these skills. I'm actually looking forward to my next manic episode. I maybe able to ride the bull without being bucked off this time.
- Second, there is a need for you, from your own nature, to be able to regulate or balance the chemistry of your brain. This requires the spiritual crisis.
I don't get what you're trying to say here?
- Finally, an intensive knowledge of yourself and of all your past experiences is needed. For the major part of the path, your past experiences are the "material" with which you work. As you get to know yourself better you realize how many illusions you have; how wretched you are; and how cruel or miserly you are.

Here are some hard questions a guru could ask, to help you get to know yourself:

What are my sins?
Have I caused harm to others? Who?
What women have I slept with? Or, who have I not slept with? (:))
Even going back to childhood, what experiences do I have that are painful, or in conflict with my image of who I am?

An excellent parable about people is that we all live in a small room of a big mansion. This is a great analogy for human psychology. The whole mansion is ours - we should own our past - but instead we live in a small, drab apartment.
Your comments are probably the most insightful ones that I've ever heard on bipolar.  I've seen psychiatrists for some 35 years and nobody could ever give me a good explanation of bipolar other than it was caused by a chemical imbalance.  Where did you develop these insights? Have you ever experienced full blown mania?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 02:05:08 AM by Michel »

Alexander

  • (Shivaswara)
  • vetted member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1123
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2014, 02:14:23 AM »
Quote from: Michel
Sometimes I wonder about that. My theory is that it could be that the spirit or subconciousness, which has enormous energy, is trying to emerge to the surface in a battle for supremacy with the intellect or ego, which is trying to suppress the spirit, resulting in thoughts of manic frenzy, confusion and chaos. The intellect just doesn't know how to handle all that energy, and is totally overwhelmed going indiscriminately into distraction after distraction.

I think that is one way to understand it. In some cultures the insane are considered to be in communion with the divine. Although without the preparation needed to deal with that divine touch, they end up dysfunctional instead.

Quote from: Michel
This is really good, aglorincz. Very insightful. I've never heard anything like this. What you say is something that I will have to learn if ever I discontinue my meds.

You should be careful sharing these ideas outside of the forum. Because the argument is based on the reality of spiritual attainment. But I think that Jhananda, from the above, and I would agree: The way to overcome mental illness is through the spiritual crises and samadhi.

Quote from: Michel
I don't get what you're trying to say here?

The idea is this. During the Night of Sense, you recall memories that do not match your typical idea of yourself. These contradictions cause heat (tapas). You become stressed; you sweat; and you may become flushed, feeling shame, confusion, and emasculation. There is no way to rationally make sense of your contradictions, so you can only suffer them.

The thesis of the spiritual alchemists is that this experience of "going through a crucible" transforms us chemically. Our "base metals" are turned into (or towards) gold.

Something interesting is when Christ, for example, teaches meekness, this is not a moral teaching but an alchemic formula. If someone's being an asshole to you, you want to be an asshole back. That is only natural. To contradict this means to go against yourself, against nature, and (in the process) "make" something more out of the material you have available to you.

Quote from: Michel
Your comments are probably the most insightful ones that I've ever heard on bipolar.  I've seen psychiatrists for some 35 years and nobody could ever give me a good explanation of bipolar other than it was caused by a chemical imbalance.  Where did you develop these insights? Have you ever experienced full blown mania?

I am very glad to hear that. It's been a combination of many sufferings over the years, aggravated by my innate goodness and nobility, and combined with an exposure to all sorts of characters and thinkers who I've tried to understand all in reference to one another.
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2014, 12:39:50 PM »
You should be careful sharing these ideas outside of the forum. Because the argument is based on the reality of spiritual attainment. But I think that Jhananda, from the above, and I would agree: The way to overcome mental illness is through the spiritual crises and samadhi.

Good to have your contribution here, aglorincz. Yes, I agree, the way to overcome mental illness is through, critical thinking, mindful self-awareness, negotiating the spiritual crises and cultivating the religious experience.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Jhanon

  • vetted member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 915
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2014, 01:00:53 AM »
I also agree. However, I would also like to add that, at least in my experience, it may be necessary to make several external changes. For one example of my many diagnosis, I was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age. If I am surrounded by people and things which are filled with distraction, it takes far more vigilance and effort to keep myself from being distracted. But if I am in a mostly empty room, it is far easier. If I'm in nature, the challenges of ADHD, bi-polar, and PTSD are almost none--I'm sometimes then at an advantage. And when I am in samadhi with the charisms, I have what appears to be a tremendous advantage, considering the mind of an "ADHD" is inclined to the most pleasant and vibrant of sensations.

I find the majority of us with "mental illness" are actually super-sensitive individuals, and so we are practically forced to "hone" ourselves. And so I've found things like quality of food has a great impact on how easily we can avoid the negative ADHD, depression, anxiety or bi-polar attributes. I stick to a mostly vegan, organic diet. Sugar, animal food of any kind (eggs included), fast and processed food are debilitating to the mind and body, and I simply refuse to touch them anymore. Going for daily walks in nature is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL for those of us who suffer from the different mental functions of the "mentally disabled". Even the Buddha went for walks in nature often. The walks tend to keep us from lowering our threshold for mania, anxiety and depression.

There is only so much external changes one can make, but they certainly help a lot. They also teach us to pay more attention. Once one makes the necessary progress along the spiritual path, in my experience, one discovers the advantages to these so-called "mental disabilities". The duality of life dictates that there must be an upside to mental disability as well. The external changes mentioned above eventually become less of a necessity, and more of a treat.

In regards to your comment about coming off your meds at some point, I would consider perhaps going to a less potent medication/herb, first. When I became fed-up with the discombobulation of pharmaceutical drugs in the treatment of mental illness, I started self-medicating with marijuana and psychedelics, but eventually I stepped down to a much more mild herb, and now I am poised to step down to nothing or something even milder. Every step, I experienced more progress in samadhi and the spiritual path. When I stepped down off marijuana and psychedelics, I found I didn't yet have enough progress in samadhi to use samadhi as a sole replacement. So the milder herb was a great crutch/stepping stone. Now that samadhi is getting even deeper, I am at a point where, as long as I have the time for samadhi, I should be able to be almost completely clean.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 01:35:12 AM by Jhanon »

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2014, 02:37:45 AM »
Yes, I agree Jhanon, mental health also requires many lifestyle changes of wholesomeness, food, attitude, lifestyle, etc.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Cal

  • vetted member
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 427
Re: World Weariness
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2014, 01:20:22 AM »
- Second, there is a need for you, from your own nature, to be able to regulate or balance the chemistry of your brain. This requires the spiritual crisis.

Very nice, Alexander.

Conflict "creates" balance.