Robert Monroe

[Alexander]

Is anyone familiar with Robert Monroe? I discovered him on Youtube yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZZHXtzuJ9c

What is strange is how he says he discovered the OOBE by accident. I do not disbelieve that is true, however I am trying to understand what he taught to others to re-create the experience, if he discovered it accidentally. Do you believe he had concepts that would be the equivalent of vitarka and vicara, self-awareness, and the spiritual crisis?

[Michel]

Really enjoyed this one. Thanks for sharing.

There's a longer video of 1 hour available:

 "Bob Monroe discusses how he came to create the Monroe institute and the Hemi Sync system. He gives an insight into his out of body experiences and his journey to enlightenment.

He was one of the first people back in the 50´s to oraganise scientific studies on consciousness.

He gained a knowing through experience, as opposed to belief, that we survive physical death. An experienced which took away his fear of death.

He describes how we arrive as a alien vortex of energy to earth, that our purpose here is to learn. We are here to learn a measurement system such as pain and pleasure. We need both as to know what the alternative is. We learn to manipulate energy which has a great value both on earth and elsewhere and in the process we acquire an intellect and analytical ability."

Robert Monroe's Out of Body Experiences: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBii06UyWwY

[Jhanananda]

Is anyone familiar with Robert Monroe? I discovered him on Youtube yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZZHXtzuJ9c

What is strange is how he says he discovered the OOBE by accident. I do not disbelieve that is true, however I am trying to understand what he taught to others to re-create the experience, if he discovered it accidentally. Do you believe he had concepts that would be the equivalent of vitarka and vicara, self-awareness, and the spiritual crisis?

When I began to experience OOBEs over 40 years ago someone suggested that I read Robert Monroe's book, Journeys out of the Body.  His book helped me to understand the OOBE; however, I never got the sense that Robert Monroe was a contemplative, or understood the larger picture of the religious experience and liberation from neuroses, even though he thinks he is enlightened.  One who is not free from addiction and neuroses is not enlightened.

[Alexander]

When I began to experience OOBEs over 40 years ago someone suggested that I read Robert Monroe's book, Journeys out of the Body.  His book helped me to understand the OOBE; however, I never got the sense that Robert Monroe was a contemplative, or understood the larger picture of the religious experience and liberation from neuroses, even though he thinks he is enlightened.  One who is not free from addiction and neuroses is not enlightened.

Do you think he was an arahant? If he was, he is an example of what we were discussing a couple days ago: someone who has exceptional attainment, but not much intellectual knowledge.

Another question I am thinking is whether someone like him can effectively help other people. As I am writing this, I am listening to one of his videos about death and the programs he administered to the dying. I have some reservation about this. I do not know if everyone has the same fantastic future awaiting them. That would be an example of a lack of intellectual knowledge, as he doesn't know about samsara or the different fates of people when they pass away.

[Jhanananda]

If we read the Pali canon closely we see that all of the 4 upper stages of samadhi are OOBEs.  We also see that Siddhartha Gautama had mastered them, but he did not considered himself enlightened.  It was later, after he had mastered the lower four samadhi states, which are the 4 jhanas, that he considered himself enlightened. 

I am unaware of anything in Robert Monroe's work to suggest he knows anything about the 8 stages of the religious experience, nor does there seem to be anything about freedom or liberation from neuroses and addictions.  Therefore I would have to conclude that he is not enlightened.

[Alexander]

If we read the Pali canon closely we see that all of the 4 upper stages of samadhi are OOBEs.  We also see that Siddhartha Gautama had mastered them, but he did not considered himself enlightened.  It was later, after he had mastered the lower four samadhi states, which are the 4 jhanas, that he considered himself enlightened. 

I am unaware of anything in Robert Monroe's work to suggest he knows anything about the 8 stages of the religious experience, nor does there seem to be anything about freedom or liberation from neuroses and addictions.  Therefore I would have to conclude that he is not enlightened.

I remember you said before how it could be possible to attain the 4 arupa jhanas without mastering the 4 rupa jhanas. I will have to chalk up Robert Monroe as a special case.

[Jhanananda]

I remember you said before how it could be possible to attain the 4 arupa jhanas without mastering the 4 rupa jhanas. I will have to chalk up Robert Monroe as a special case.

What do you mean by Robert Monroe being a "special case?"

[Alexander]

What do you mean by Robert Monroe being a "special case?"

By special case I mean I do not know what I think about him: he does not fit in any category of spiritual person I understand. Continuing to upset me is how he says he discovered the out-of-body experience "by accident": in other words, that he found it without being on a quest for liberation.

I have tried to read some of Journeys Out of the Body, however my Inner Guide tells me I will not gain anything from reading this book. That intuition has never failed me. I am also confused by nonsense such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_levels

[stugandolf]

I personally found the OBE'S well before I learned the name OBE.  When it happens it happens - so why does this technique work and this does not: does not always matter - go with what comes up...Stu

[Jhanananda]

By special case I mean I do not know what I think about him: he does not fit in any category of spiritual person I understand. Continuing to upset me is how he says he discovered the out-of-body experience "by accident": in other words, that he found it without being on a quest for liberation.

Most people seem to stumble upon the OOBE, as we can see I did, and so did Stu.  What Robert Monroe helped me with was understanding it, not getting there, as I was already there before I read his book.

I have tried to read some of Journeys Out of the Body, however my Inner Guide tells me I will not gain anything from reading this book. That intuition has never failed me. I am also confused by nonsense such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_levels

Focus levels are numerical, content-neutral labels for specific altered states of consciousness associated with specific Hemi-Sync binaural beat combinations defined by The Monroe Institute (TMI). From a physiological point of view, they correspond to specific objectively measurable brainwave frequency distributions.

The problem with any premise or method that is based upon activating brain wave frequencies, is so far no one has proven there is an association between brain wave frequencies and the 8 stages of the religious experience.