Cal's Meditation and Mystical Experience Records

[Jhanananda]

No, but lucid dreaming and the OOBE are closely related.  When a dog is twitching while asleep, it looks to me like it believes that it is running in a dream, which is most probably lucid, and thus possibly an OOBE.  However, when we go OOBE on the lower levels, then often we encounter people who are just dreaming.  It is all part of the collective unconscious, where people, and other creatures, who dream lucidly are not unconscious.

[Michel]

I can understand the aversion, but not the grasping. When you recognize the charisms, you bring full awareness to them and grasp them gently. I recall reading an essay from Jeff about how it can be much like riding a horse in that you, as the rider, must maintain a firm grip, but not a taught grip on the reigns of the horse, otherwise the horse would rather just eat the grass in front of him. He used this analogy in the context of OOBE, yet I believe it applies here as well. The balance of aversion and grasping falls more into the context of your thoughts or unpleasant feelings or the "rogue mind", at least thats what I've found in meditation. When I've relaxed sufficiently to be the "rider", its in the tingling or cool breeze upon the surface of my skin that I grasp; its everything else that I let fall away.

Sorry for not responding to your comments, Cal. I appreciate whatever it is you write. Yes, grasping the meditation object is one of the things I find important. I like the other analogy that Jeffrey uses where its like how one holds on to a dancing partner...

[Michel]

It sounds like you opened your crown chakra. That radiance Michel, look for it elsewhere. You might feel that same radiant feeling on the tips of your fingers or the bottoms of your feet. You could even feel it now. Close your eyes. Take a deep, relaxing breath. As you exhale, place your awareness onto your hands. Hold off on the inhale for a moment, and search in awareness for what may or may not be there. It may take a couple of inhale/exhales to relax.

It would likely be second jhana if youre feeling that haha. Good work! Remember, the first jhana is nothing more than a pleasant abiding in your religious activity. Youre not likely to have the awareness of a radiant feeling until youve found some measure of tranquility in your mind, so I'd say your experience was further than the first jhana.

Yes, I'm experiencing these extremely deep spontaneous breaths, as well as the breath holding itself spontaneously. The teeth become clenched, then this intense energy starts to buildup swirling about in the head, feet, legs and chest that lasts maybe anywhere from a few seconds to maybe 30 seconds. The head and upper body are trembling, and the eyelids are flickering. I feel like I'm going to break the sound barrier. There's no full body saturation yet. These are new things that I haven't experienced before.

I don't know if I'm beyond the first jhana because there's still thinking going on, and there is very little joy.

[Jhanananda]

Yes, I'm experiencing these extremely deep spontaneous breaths, as well as the breath holding itself spontaneously. The teeth become clenched, then this intense energy starts to buildup swirling about in the head, feet, legs and chest that lasts maybe anywhere from a few seconds to maybe 30 seconds. The head and upper body are trembling, and the eyelids are flickering. I feel like I'm going to break the sound barrier. There's no full body saturation yet. These are new things that I haven't experienced before.

This is it.  Just keep going, and keep doing whatever makes it happen consistently.

[Sam Lim]

Michel, it seems that your kundalini is trying to break loose. I've taught a few students with the same symptoms and within one month they have a violent kundalini awakening. Good work.

[Cal]

Hey Michel, sorry its taken me awhile to get back to you as well. I think you're making great progress. Also, if you are returning to your practice regularly you have found some measure of joy in it. It took me quite awhile to unpack my own perceptions of the charisms. With some work I was able to hone in on some of the more subtle details, and in that, I found a much greater appreciation for them. I'll give a distant example. On the worst of days where everything has just been shit the entire day, the thought of meditation and refuge calms me. This thought of refuge brings about a sort of joy, that is so subtle that if Im not completely silent, I may miss it. However, when you have returned to it so many times, you just know its there.

Cheers Michel, I'm very happy for you =)

[Michel]

Thank-you for your kind words, Cal.

Come to think of it, there is a certain amount of low-level joy that arises when I consider that my meditation practice is a refuge to the hell of this earthly existence.
I expect that the joy will increase as I continue to evolve in time.
 

[Michel]

Michel, it seems that your kundalini is trying to break loose. I've taught a few students with the same symptoms and within one month they have a violent kundalini awakening. Good work.

Thank-you for the encouragement, Sam.

If you feel the earth tremble in Singapore, then you'll know it was my awakening.

[Michel]

Yes, I'm experiencing these extremely deep spontaneous breaths, as well as the breath holding itself spontaneously. The teeth become clenched, then this intense energy starts to buildup swirling about in the head, feet, legs and chest that lasts maybe anywhere from a few seconds to maybe 30 seconds. The head and upper body are trembling, and the eyelids are flickering. I feel like I'm going to break the sound barrier. There's no full body saturation yet. These are new things that I haven't experienced before.

This is it.  Just keep going, and keep doing whatever makes it happen consistently.

Thank-you for your encouragement and guidance, Jeffrey.

[Jauho1979]

It sounds like you opened your crown chakra. That radiance Michel, look for it elsewhere. You might feel that same radiant feeling on the tips of your fingers or the bottoms of your feet. You could even feel it now. Close your eyes. Take a deep, relaxing breath. As you exhale, place your awareness onto your hands. Hold off on the inhale for a moment, and search in awareness for what may or may not be there. It may take a couple of inhale/exhales to relax.

It would likely be second jhana if youre feeling that haha. Good work! Remember, the first jhana is nothing more than a pleasant abiding in your religious activity. Youre not likely to have the awareness of a radiant feeling until youve found some measure of tranquility in your mind, so I'd say your experience was further than the first jhana.

Yes, I'm experiencing these extremely deep spontaneous breaths, as well as the breath holding itself spontaneously. The teeth become clenched, then this intense energy starts to buildup swirling about in the head, feet, legs and chest that lasts maybe anywhere from a few seconds to maybe 30 seconds. The head and upper body are trembling, and the eyelids are flickering. I feel like I'm going to break the sound barrier. There's no full body saturation yet. These are new things that I haven't experienced before.

I don't know if I'm beyond the first jhana because there's still thinking going on, and there is very little joy.

I have similar experiences like these recently as well although my meditation sessions are no longer as good as they used to be (what with worries about money, stock market, etc.

Usually I'll  be lying in my bed sleeping or lying down on the floor to meditate when it happens. I can feel a deep rumble in my torso and my head, as if a Mustang car is revving up and ready to go fast and furious any time soon. I can also 'hear' that deep rumble when it happens. And after about 10 to 20 seconds, I would suddenly just snap out of it and the episode would be over.

Come to think of it, this energy-rumbling sensation is also there when I used to have my flying lucid dream/OOBE episode.  Hmmmm.....

[Michel]

Usually I'll  be lying in my bed sleeping or lying down on the floor to meditate when it happens. I can feel a deep rumble in my torso and my head, as if a Mustang car is revving up and ready to go fast and furious any time soon. I can also 'hear' that deep rumble when it happens. And after about 10 to 20 seconds, I would suddenly just snap out of it and the episode would be over.

Come to think of it, this energy-rumbling sensation is also there when I used to have my flying lucid dream/OOBE episode.  Hmmmm.....

In my case I don't hear any rumbling sounds, it's bodily trembling only.

[Cal]

Hello GWV. While work and life have definitely contributed to my absence, there was also a specific incident that left me in a great amount of pain. I've spent the last few months droning away, working long hours and simply providing, being there, contributing. Since finding the charisms, Ive encountered one hurdle after another. Some of them taking longer than others to overcome. This one I may never overcome. But, thankfully, the sting of it has lessened since the experience, and so I'd like to share. I havent given up. I will not give up. I just needed some time.

Back in December/January I started focusing alot of attention on remembering my dreams. I started journaling specifically. It was fruitful. I was to a point where I would recall them in almost perfect detail a few times a week. I wasnt expecting what happened. As a matter of fact, this thought was far far from my mind.

Jhanon and I took a trip to AZ in February to meet with Jhananda. Was a good trip, one I am very glad I took. Meeting Jeff really helped me in alot of ways. I believe it was the second night, I had an extremely lucid dream. This one I could recall all details, start to finish; in all their horror. Without going to much into detail, I watched my young daughter be killed by an 18 wheeler. I had told her to come out of the road the instant it happened, but I was too late. Every last detail...

The next morning I told Jeff about the dream and was rather upset by it. Awhile later Jhanon joined us by the fire pit. The conversation led to him telling a story of what led him to the path. His girlfriend was involved in an accident in highschool. She was killed by a truck. Jhanon recounted my dream almost down to the last detail.

I have had alot of questions, and many more doubts. Mostly, this fear drove me to be as close to my daughter as I possibly could be. I gave up my resistance of conformity, and gave in to my wife. Fear has become a primary driver in my life. All the while I was giving in to death, allowing myself to become a conduit, progressing, the thought never crossed my mind that my child could be gone in the blink of an eye.

Thankfully, this was only a dream. The details of this dream were so vivid that even now I struggle to separate it from reality. What I felt then is as real as I breathe now. I wasnt ready, and I did not expect to ever experience something like this. And Jhanon....he lived it, it is reality for him, even if far removed.   

So, I've taken a break for meditation. Although the charisms are still with me, and I still lucid dream, I think I still need time.

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you, Cal, for posting your blog entry.  When we begin to become lucid in the sleep state we often become aware of powerful fears being manifested in our dream-world.  Also, when we lead a contemplative life we often develop sensitivity to others around us.  So, combining these to experience, then we can have lucid dream content that might just belong to someone else, and/or their world view.  This means we need a great deal of equanimity to negotiate these powerful subjective experience, which is why we need to learn to meditate to the depth of the 3rd jhana or better, as soon as we can, and maintain that depth through daily meditation practice.

[Cal]

It has been some years since I last posted here, honestly, I regret this now. The charisms have never left. I feel as though all progress that I made has never left. If I were to meditate now I would drop into the 4th jhana almost immediately. I still see it - the Kasina - all I need to do is place my attention to the third eye chakra and within minutes - the misshapen puddle of beautiful gold forms a pearl - I watch it as it brisks away from me - inviting, only to return as a puddle and repeat. My crown chakra opens and this is my que to step out of the vehicle…

Many times over these years I have resided, followed, allowed, given way only to find myself searching for them. I hate them. I once thought that simply defining what is, was enough. At some point simply defining fear - and cognitively deciding that courage was the answer to fear - it brought me to the place I reside now. In my mind it is impossible not to seek them out - and I understand why, but perhaps it is time to combat fear with understanding instead. It will be difficult because I know they can hurt me - they have. It makes me want to hurt them… I feel that “The Dark Night of the soul” is an understatement.

I apologize for bringing negativity. I hope for a small amount of understanding in that this is my current struggle.

[Tad]

Hi Cal,

it is great to see you posting on the forum. Can you explain more about the fears you are facing?