Author Topic: Opioid addictions  (Read 25677 times)

Michel

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2015, 12:44:31 AM »
Also, I truly hope, and aspire to, you and Michel working out a path to recovery from psychiatric medication.

Thank-you, Jhananda, for your encouragement.

Well, I'm not on an opioid. I have read that opioids are easier to withdraw from than antipsychotics. 

For the last six weeks I have reduced my antipsychotic medication by 25% with no side effects. At some point at lower doses the side effects begin to manifest. I was considering lowering the dose even further without telling the family or the psychiatrist. I realized that this would be dishonest of me and would violate the 4th precept. So, two days ago I went back to the full dose since I want both parties to be OK with my lowering or stopping the meds. So far I haven't been able to convince either of them. The doctor practices pure psychopharmacology, and the family thinks he's an expert on mental illness, and that drug therapy is the only way to go. Well, I don't agree with either of them. I'm trying to convince everyone that I need an alternate approach. But I don't know who to turn to.

Withdrawal from the antipsychotic medication I'm on, which I've taken for the last 4 years, is dangerous - and at my age it could kill me since it is very hard on the body and my health is fragile. You need a supportive environment with family, doctors, etc. I went through a severe withdrawal from a high dose of benzodiazepines 14 years ago and I came close to death. I had no support from anyone. I ended up going full blown manic and ended up in the hospital, having been brought there by the cops. That saved me from the withdrawal. The mania completely burned away the withdrawal symptoms. The doctors call the antipsychotic I'm on a "super-benzodiazepine." Furthermore, I'm also taking a mood stabilizer. It's an anti-seizure type of drug. Withdrawal from it is also very difficult.

I'm in a very difficult situation. My spiritual development is also an issue. The meds could be impeding my progress. Now that's a theory some of us have. Technically I'm violating the 5th precept which is abstaining from intoxicants or mood altering substances.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 01:00:44 AM by Michel »

Jhanananda

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2015, 01:59:26 AM »
Hello Michel, I understand your dilemma; however, after working with mystics for decades it is clear to me that the antipsychotics definitely interfere with mastering deep meditation.  SO, I am not sure how you can work it out, but if you can, then I am certain you will be aided in the process.
There is no progress without discipline.

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Jhanon

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2015, 02:35:22 AM »
I can see the path to overcoming this. But it is a delicate one, if I am to keep my family and provide for them while maintaining sobriety. Some very unusual fortune has come my way, and might offer the next step. Essentially, I will be paid to discuss jhana, my experiences with it, and how it's transforming lives. And when I am discussing these things or meditating is the only time I feel free of my addictions.
Perhaps you can find an income sufficient to provide for you family through guiding people through the necessary stages of contemplative sobriety.  Also, I truly hope, and aspire to, you and Michel working out a path to recovery from psychiatric medication.

An opportunity is developing. It is very promising. The conscience is at peace with it.

Jhanon

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2015, 02:43:38 AM »
Hello Michel, I understand your dilemma; however, after working with mystics for decades it is clear to me that the antipsychotics definitely interfere with mastering deep meditation.  SO, I am not sure how you can work it out, but if you can, then I am certain you will be aided in the process.

I agree, Michel. On both our accounts. As you are aware, I am intimately aware of what you are going through. Zyprex and Lamictal appear to be what you're on. Lamictal limits the range of dopamine, and Zyprexa limits seratonin. You are not exaggerating. These drugs are far more difficult to withdraw from. However, I found the choice to come off them was far easier. The difference being the process of withdrawal from opioids is a little easier, while the pharmaceuticals are easier to decide to quit.

But, Michel, I agree with Jhananda. With all the magic, and coincidences I've witnessed--if you're heart is set on this, and you do everything within your power (and the N8P) to accomplish it--you will be aided. I've found the trick is listening to the conscience, which suggests new, scary, challenging ways to approach the goal. Since it's the conscience, these suggestions from it are within the N8P. It takes courage, and faith, but I am always supported by the benevolence with no name.

Michel

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2015, 11:35:20 PM »
Hello Michel, I understand your dilemma; however, after working with mystics for decades it is clear to me that the antipsychotics definitely interfere with mastering deep meditation.  SO, I am not sure how you can work it out, but if you can, then I am certain you will be aided in the process.
I have to prove to everybody that there is an alternate therapy. Of course we know what that is here: the N8P. But try to convince them. That is highly unlikely, I believe.

If I were to withdraw from the meds without telling anyone, then when the withdrawal kicks everybody knows, and - the family and the doctor wouldn't trust me anymore. I'm against this idea of having to lie. I take the precepts very seriously. So, I need to look at other possibilities.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 11:44:18 PM by Michel »

Michel

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2015, 11:41:47 PM »
I agree, Michel. On both our accounts. As you are aware, I am intimately aware of what you are going through. Zyprex and Lamictal appear to be what you're on. Lamictal limits the range of dopamine, and Zyprexa limits seratonin. You are not exaggerating. These drugs are far more difficult to withdraw from. However, I found the choice to come off them was far easier. The difference being the process of withdrawal from opioids is a little easier, while the pharmaceuticals are easier to decide to quit.
Yes, these are the two meds I'm taking. How long had you been taking these meds? Months or years? If so, how did you manage to withdraw from them.

Thank-you, Jhanon, for your kind words of encouragement.

Jhanon

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2015, 12:24:47 AM »
I agree, Michel. On both our accounts. As you are aware, I am intimately aware of what you are going through. Zyprex and Lamictal appear to be what you're on. Lamictal limits the range of dopamine, and Zyprexa limits seratonin. You are not exaggerating. These drugs are far more difficult to withdraw from. However, I found the choice to come off them was far easier. The difference being the process of withdrawal from opioids is a little easier, while the pharmaceuticals are easier to decide to quit.
Yes, these are the two meds I'm taking. How long had you been taking these meds? Months or years? If so, how did you manage to withdraw from them.

Thank-you, Jhanon, for your kind words of encouragement.

Thankfully, I quit these drugs within 1 year of beginning them. They made me feel like a robot, like I wasn't alive. Nothing was enjoyable. All the magic of life was gone, even though I barely was aware of the magic.

At this time psychedelic mushrooms began to enter my life through no effort of my own.  I began to research the healing powers of psychedelics, and tried them on two separate attempts without any effects. I was told and then verified that those medications were canceling out the effects of the psychedelics entirely.

So, I took a risk and quit them in favor of the psychedelics. That is a level of risk I had never taken before. I was used to letting doctors tell me what to do.

I used mostly marijuana and video games for the first week or two of withdrawal, and didn't notice much withdrawal because I was so unaware and naive. But in retrospect, I was couch/bed-ridden continuously. After a few weeks, I began meeting truly noble, authentic and loving humans I didn't even knew existed. They also used marijuana.

Through these people, I came into contact with many "mentor"-like individuals. I would smoke marijuana with them, and with the increased receptivity it afforded me, these people would teach me like the father I never had. i had a series of profound mystical experiences that changed my life forever. I've never told of these experiences on here out of respect for Jhananda's view on these substances, but the emotional and spiritual release was profound.

One, where a stranger compassionately taught me to deny myself the use of excuses so as to change my life, I remember getting in the car to leave and filled with shattering ecstasy--so much so that I was clinching the armrest, sobbing, and in the super strong version of kundalini energy blast. That was perhaps my first experience of transcendental insight, and I was hooked. That was also when I realized there was hope in the psychedelic compounds like marijuana, and the others.

When the withdrawals were greatest--I then knew the medications would not impact a psychedelic experience because they had mostly left my system. I began taking psychedelics which were freely offered to me. And these noble friends would provide every therapeutic set and setting I needed to endure the initial fear of using such a powerful substance. i ended up watching Lord of the Rings, and my girl---friend held me tightly the whole time. This afforded me additional experiences of kundalini bliss, insight and release, resulting in the happiest and free-est I had ever been in my life. From that point on, I was so ecstatic, even when on no substances, that the withdrawals weren't even there.

Jhananda will most likely not appreciate this, but I insist on being honest. Do I recommend the path I took? No. But can you see how I was aided? Absolutely. And that is the point.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 12:28:53 AM by Jhanon »

Jhanananda

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2015, 01:31:46 AM »
I have to prove to everybody that there is an alternate therapy. Of course we know what that is here: the N8P. But try to convince them. That is highly unlikely, I believe.

If I were to withdraw from the meds without telling anyone, then when the withdrawal kicks everybody knows, and - the family and the doctor wouldn't trust me anymore. I'm against this idea of having to lie. I take the precepts very seriously. So, I need to look at other possibilities.
I find not lying is a good thing.  On the other hand, if everyone in my world wants to drug me, then what do I do?  My choice when my family had spent my entire life telling everyone I was both retarded and insane, was just to leave and never speak to them again.  Of course it meant I had no financial help from them, and I was written out of the will, but I gained my sanity.  So, you choose what works best for your life.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Michel

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2015, 11:59:20 PM »
I have to prove to everybody that there is an alternate therapy. Of course we know what that is here: the N8P. But try to convince them. That is highly unlikely, I believe.

If I were to withdraw from the meds without telling anyone, then when the withdrawal kicks everybody knows, and - the family and the doctor wouldn't trust me anymore. I'm against this idea of having to lie. I take the precepts very seriously. So, I need to look at other possibilities.
I find not lying is a good thing.  On the other hand, if everyone in my world wants to drug me, then what do I do?  My choice when my family had spent my entire life telling everyone I was both retarded and insane, was just to leave and never speak to them again.  Of course it meant I had no financial help from them, and I was written out of the will, but I gained my sanity.  So, you choose what works best for your life.
In my case, and I'm not sure, but I think if I were to leave the family then the doctor would appoint the province as my legal guardian with full power of attorney over me. Maybe it's a case of better the devil you know than the one you don't.

Jhanananda

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2015, 11:44:55 AM »
In my case, and I'm not sure, but I think if I were to leave the family then the doctor would appoint the province as my legal guardian with full power of attorney over me. Maybe it's a case of better the devil you know than the one you don't.
Yes, it sounds like you are caught between a rock and a hard place.  In my case it was easy.  My family threw me out like the trash on my graduation day from high school.  So, I just walked away and created a life without them, which was a contemplative life.

However, you are not alone with this problem.  I keep thinking that there is a way to solve this problem, and that the spiritual community is the solution; however, most spiritual communities are invested in someone's ego, who is definitely not enlightened; and if he or she finds someone in his/her community who is genuinely enlightened, then that person will be routed out.

Do you think that your family would allow you to join a spiritual community?  I expect that it would have to be very mainstream, like a Catholic monastery.  If so, then perhaps the spiritual community would be willing to look after you until you die, and allow you to withdraw from the psychiatric meds that you are on; however, if you go through withdrawal, then I would like you to work with a physician who is interested in helping you withdraw from your psychiatric meds; and that you two come up with a plan that does not undermine your health and safety.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Michel

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2015, 11:36:04 PM »
I don't know what to say, Jhananda. It's seems like an impossible situation. But thanks for your suggestions.

Jhanon

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2015, 12:18:53 AM »
It's probably not considered my business, but I think Jhananda's suggestion is worth contemplating lightly over the coming weeks. If I was in your situation, to the extent which I have been informed of it, what he suggested is almost exactly what I would be trying to do. I even watched a film recently which had some kind of Christian mystic in it who was a monk or something in a place I had never heard of. It might be an excellent opportunity.

And yes, he was a mystic. You don't say the things he said in the way he said them unless you have experienced the mystical states many times.

I just wanna see you free, friend--like I do everyone else. I often feel like we all live in our own version of impossible life situation, until enlightenment.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 12:21:36 AM by Jhanon »

Michel

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2015, 12:38:29 AM »
I suppose there maybe some Roman Catholic clergy or monastics that may be advanced spiritually. I've come across those who probably were not. l went to Catholic schools from kindergarten to senior high school and meet all kinds of priests and nuns. But true Catholic mystics are hard to find no doubt and why would they invest in someone like me who leans towards Buddhism and doesn't believe Roman Catholicism to be a vehicle to liberation? 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 12:41:35 AM by Michel »

Jhanon

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2015, 07:38:11 PM »
Good point. The individual I'm referring to was a mystic, though. And he said that despite him being part of whatever non-Buddhist clergy he was, that it is unmistakable after repeat mystical experiences that all ancient spiritual teachings are talking about the same thing, only in different ways so as to help the myriad of conditioned individuals.

I think that, for example, Christian mysticism is for those who respond to imagery and overtly covert messages. While the Buddhist mystic thrives on specific, holistic, and extensive intellectual reasoning proving the teaching.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 07:42:08 PM by Jhanon »

Jhanon

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Re: Opioid addictions
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2015, 03:18:48 PM »
You know, not even in my prime as a youth did I wake up and my physical body felt remotely good.

Stupid human realm!

This is my way of coping with leaving experiences far better than this when I "wake up" in the morning.

They shouldn't even call it that. They should call it "wake down." How do you older guys deal with all the pain and discomfort of morning!?

I suppose you could say "meditation", but if I do that when I first wake up, I'll just fall back asleep or go OOBE. And then my responsibilities go down the drain, and I'm scolded. There's no winning man!

I'm posting this here because it's a significant part of the reason I'm on a mild opioid. Or at least gobbling tylenol (within reason.)

I think the only good part about waking up with no recent opioids in my system is that the mind and heart are more sensitive.