Bodhimind's Blog

[bodhimind]

I've changed my sitting style to Burmese and found that it was best for my legs as well. However, I do have a problem with where to place my hands. I place them on my thighs but they tend to slide down due to the incline of the thighs.

Also, when I stand next to someone else I know, they would suddenly comment that my complexion has become fairer and yellow. This has happened quite a few times. I think it might be due to the decrease in stress and an increase in attention to health of the body, perhaps better blood circulation.

I suddenly realize that I can have premonitory dreams. I found myself in two situations lately, where I was at the scene. I knew exactly what was happening and I acted accordingly to the dream. The funny thing was the two dreams were probably a year ago or so. They were quite vivid, that is why I remembered it.

Also, I am quite curious as to the differences between the dream realms and non-material realms. For example, a blind person does not dream in vision, but if a blind person were to have an out-of-body experience, he seems to be able to. It seems that in the dream realm, one cannot experience something outside of their own brain's capacity. How can one differentiate the realm of dreams and the realm of non-material realms? Can one meet another in the realm of dreams?

It is understandable that the OOBE might be frightening to some people, because this is precisely what we experience at death.  So, the OOBE is too much like death.  When we overcome attachment to the body, then we find the OOBE more interesting and fulfilling.

Still working on contemplation of the corpse, trying to remove attachment to the body. I feel that although my logical mind has released the attachment, it seems as if the subconscious mind still clings on to the notion of survival and existence. It feels as if... If there was no 'self', then there is no existence, but it doesn't wish to believe that.

I keep thinking that even if one were to experience the charisms, there must be an experiencer of that charism, which creates a subject-object polarity. However, it clashes with the non-duality I am supposed to be experiencing if I reach the third/fourth jhana. Since i can witness thoughts, sensations and even the charisms, then they can't be me... Or are they?

[Jhanananda]

I've changed my sitting style to Burmese and found that it was best for my legs as well. However, I do have a problem with where to place my hands. I place them on my thighs but they tend to slide down due to the incline of the thighs.

When you spend more time in meditation on the floor you will find your knees will lower.  Otherwise I found nesting my hands palms up into each other in my lap works quite well.

Also, when I stand next to someone else I know, they would suddenly comment that my complexion has become fairer and yellow. This has happened quite a few times. I think it might be due to the decrease in stress and an increase in attention to health of the body, perhaps better blood circulation.

I hope so, otherwise it sounds like jaundice.

I suddenly realize that I can have premonitory dreams. I found myself in two situations lately, where I was at the scene. I knew exactly what was happening and I acted accordingly to the dream. The funny thing was the two dreams were probably a year ago or so. They were quite vivid, that is why I remembered it.

Those who learn to meditate deeply, as you have, will develop intuitive, revelatory, insight, such that one might have premonitory dreams.

Also, I am quite curious as to the differences between the dream realms and non-material realms. For example, a blind person does not dream in vision, but if a blind person were to have an out-of-body experience, he seems to be able to. It seems that in the dream realm, one cannot experience something outside of their own brain's capacity. How can one differentiate the realm of dreams and the realm of non-material realms? Can one meet another in the realm of dreams?

I find there are many layers to the immaterial domains.  The lowest level is the dream level.  The lower the level that we "dream" at the more restrictions we have.

Still working on contemplation of the corpse, trying to remove attachment to the body. I feel that although my logical mind has released the attachment, it seems as if the subconscious mind still clings on to the notion of survival and existence. It feels as if... If there was no 'self', then there is no existence, but it doesn't wish to believe that.

I keep thinking that even if one were to experience the charisms, there must be an experiencer of that charism, which creates a subject-object polarity. However, it clashes with the non-duality I am supposed to be experiencing if I reach the third/fourth jhana. Since i can witness thoughts, sensations and even the charisms, then they can't be me... Or are they?

The deeper you meditate, and the more time you spend in deep meditation the more the experience will be non-dual.  One otherwise does not have to do anything, but meditate deeply, and carry the charisms with one throughout the day, while being in the present moment.

[bodhimind]

I just wanted to record that I had my first gustatory charism while meditating. It tasted sweet. It first felt as if something sweet was descending, and then I could feel a very sudden sweetness in my saliva. Almost like honey, perhaps even sweeter.

Also in my recent session, I experienced two jerks. Perhaps kriya?

My meditation sessions have been normal and deep, bordering the first to third jhana. I have learnt how to ride the bliss, but I believe the problem is that I do not have enough time to sit long enough for the fourth jhana and beyond to take place. I will try to make time for myself, perhaps sacrifice a bit of late night sleep to get this going.

I find that even if thoughts arise, my state does not exactly 'break'. I can return to a higher jhana with quicker speed.

I just read a post by Jhanananda (in the Meditation Techniques forum) about piti and sukha, which I found was a really good one explaining the difference. Just to note it down here, piti did feel like an expansion near the heart, of ecstasy. Sukha was the rising of the charisms, particularly the tingling sensations which I felt might be the increased blood flow (??).

I experimented with my posture and realized that I had to allow my hip to rotate slightly to allow my spine to relax completely on top of it. My center of gravity tended to shift forward while I sat in Burmese and this caused me to slouch. There are quite a few gems in the forum so I'm going to take my time to try and dig them out over the week.

I have also changed my world-view. I no longer have an ambition to 'help others' - Instead, I find that I need to cure myself first of my ignorance before even attempting to help others. Afterall, a delusional person cannot do much to help another person suffering from delusion. This reminds me of the Plato's Cave Allegory again. I want to find enlightenment, then allow wisdom to guide my efforts instead. Lately, it is more of an effort to sustain the body so that it can have an ability to live within the world. The body seems to be nothing more than a shit-producing machine (lol), except that it has its use in exhibiting actions and interaction with the world. Maybe a spiritual crisis? I hope not. I do not find detest or disgust, more of I am detached from the idea.

However, I find myself repeatedly bending to desires time to time when I get flooded by many things to do. For example, stress would make me more susceptible to conforming to physical desires such as eating highly sugared food when I know that the sugar spike is not healthy to the blood vessels. Of course, there is the problem of lust as well.

I still have not reached the immaterial domains. However, I no longer have a deep yearning for it. I am simply just not dwelling, allowing myself to saturate in charisms. I believe that it eventually will take me deeper. All I will do is to increase my effort and rigor.

[Jhanananda]

I just wanted to record that I had my first gustatory charism while meditating. It tasted sweet. It first felt as if something sweet was descending, and then I could feel a very sudden sweetness in my saliva. Almost like honey, perhaps even sweeter.

Very good, it need not be sweet, but could be any of the other flavors, but it will not be associated with food, and will be associated with deep meditation.

Also in my recent session, I experienced two jerks. Perhaps kriya?

There are various types of kriyas, but jerks are one of them, so it sounds like you have some kriyas.

My meditation sessions have been normal and deep, bordering the first to third jhana. I have learnt how to ride the bliss, but I believe the problem is that I do not have enough time to sit long enough for the fourth jhana and beyond to take place. I will try to make time for myself, perhaps sacrifice a bit of late night sleep to get this going.

I find the more time we make for the contemplative life, then the more it pays off in depth of attainment.

I find that even if thoughts arise, my state does not exactly 'break'. I can return to a higher jhana with quicker speed.

Yes, this is skilful meditation practice.  Michael Hawkins said he found thoughts and levels of meditation came in waves, and he just rides those waves.  I find this an excellent, and useful, analogy.

I just read a post by Jhanananda (in the Meditation Techniques forum) about piti and sukha, which I found was a really good one explaining the difference. Just to note it down here, piti did feel like an expansion near the heart, of ecstasy. Sukha was the rising of the charisms, particularly the tingling sensations which I felt might be the increased blood flow (??).

I experimented with my posture and realized that I had to allow my hip to rotate slightly to allow my spine to relax completely on top of it. My center of gravity tended to shift forward while I sat in Burmese and this caused me to slouch. There are quite a few gems in the forum so I'm going to take my time to try and dig them out over the week.

The more time we spend in seated meditation practice the more the body conforms to the posture, and the more we make fine adjustments in that posture to accommodate sitting longer.  Most of us find a wedge shaped pillow under neath can help improve the posture enough to allow for lengthy sitting sessions.

I have also changed my world-view. I no longer have an ambition to 'help others' - Instead, I find that I need to cure myself first of my ignorance before even attempting to help others. Afterall, a delusional person cannot do much to help another person suffering from delusion. This reminds me of the Plato's Cave Allegory again. I want to find enlightenment, then allow wisdom to guide my efforts instead. Lately, it is more of an effort to sustain the body so that it can have an ability to live within the world. The body seems to be nothing more than a shit-producing machine (lol), except that it has its use in exhibiting actions and interaction with the world. Maybe a spiritual crisis? I hope not. I do not find detest or disgust, more of I am detached from the idea.

Keeping mind the aphorism "Physician health thy self" is always a good choice.  Most religions are prosthelytized by half-baked devotees who do more damage than good.

However, I find myself repeatedly bending to desires time to time when I get flooded by many things to do. For example, stress would make me more susceptible to conforming to physical desires such as eating highly sugared food when I know that the sugar spike is not healthy to the blood vessels. Of course, there is the problem of lust as well.

When we are self-aware, then it is hard for the cravings to take root, but, as stated under another thread, the craving might be a need for something that they body needs.  Possibly rest, or nutrition, etc.

I still have not reached the immaterial domains. However, I no longer have a deep yearning for it. I am simply just not dwelling, allowing myself to saturate in charisms. I believe that it eventually will take me deeper. All I will do is to increase my effort and rigor.

Yes, if you just saturate yourself in charisms, as well as develop lucidity in your sleep state through deep meditation practice prior to sleep, as well as journal your dreams, then the OOBE will come soon.

[bodhimind]

Just lay down for my first lying-down meditation, since I have finished my commitments and have a lot of time (so I decided to put my whole day into intensive meditation/mini-retreat).

I tried to put what Jhanon talked about in his thread into use: As if falling asleep, I would simply just watch the body fall asleep. Then I started to notice the tingles getting stronger, as if I was meditating. I found that in this position, I seemed to be able to get into a deep state much faster than when cross-legged in burmese. I rode the tingling and I am quite sure that I reached at least second jhana, because the tingling had spread to my forearms. There was this point where I felt bliss throughout the body, as if it was turning lighter and lighter. I suddenly recalled one of the sutta translations that Jhanananda had on GWV: About filling the body with bliss as if one were pouring a powder. It helped quite a bit, because I did not try to manipulate it, just allowed it to move in waves.

I also felt my body "sleep". I did notice that the auditory charism seemed a bit louder than when I do sitting meditation though. I also experienced at least 10 kriyas - sudden jerks that happened in the neck, the knee and the elbow (all joints, for some reason).

However, I think the problem is that I do not know what I am looking for in the fourth jhana. I know that when the tingling rises and intensifies, accompanied by the loud ringing, I am in the first or second. However, I cannot seem to understand what fourth's no-pain-or-pleasure trait means. I think I might have reached equanimity, where sensations rose and disappeared while I stayed unaffected.

No void or out-of-body yet though. I did find myself suddenly thinking about separation, but I realize that it is another thought that is distracting me, so I repeatedly moved back to the first jhana and tried again. I will continue this practice until I am able to be lucid while sleeping.

I noticed that Jhanananda said he took a few months to master this on one of the GWV pages, but I wish to know how one get into the immaterial more quickly? Do I just let it go on its own way? Is it exactly the same as sitting meditation? Or perhaps am I being too impatient...

While meditating, I have not any sexual desire, not had much visual charisms (in terms of floating faces like last time) or bright lights. Also, perhaps I am desensitised to the bliss, but I find the bliss not as intense as before.

[Jhanananda]

Just lay down for my first lying-down meditation, since I have finished my commitments and have a lot of time (so I decided to put my whole day into intensive meditation/mini-retreat).

Mini-retreats are a good adjunct to a contemplative life.  Too many people who meditate just meditate once a year, or just once a week at the dharma center, or even daily just 20 minutes, or they attend one 10-day retreat in a lifetime, and that is it for their contemplative life. This means most of these people get nothing out of their meditation practice and are thus doing it out of blind faith. 

Whereas, one who is interested in cultivating a fruitful contemplative life really needs to meditate daily, and also have occasional mini-to-long retreats at home, or camping.

I tried to put what Jhanon talked about in his thread into use: As if falling asleep, I would simply just watch the body fall asleep. Then I started to notice the tingles getting stronger, as if I was meditating. I found that in this position, I seemed to be able to get into a deep state much faster than when cross-legged in burmese.

All 4 postures have their use, but it is true that depth in meditation, and especially the attainment of the OOBE, is easier for most people lying down.

I rode the tingling and I am quite sure that I reached at least second jhana, because the tingling had spread to my forearms.

The second jhana is characterized by the stilling of the mind, not the charisms.  So, if your mind was still then, you were there.  The charisms generally come at later stages of depth in meditation, but not always.

There was this point where I felt bliss throughout the body, as if it was turning lighter and lighter. I suddenly recalled one of the sutta translations that Jhanananda had on GWV: About filling the body with bliss as if one were pouring a powder. It helped quite a bit, because I did not try to manipulate it, just allowed it to move in waves.

Yes, DN-2 has the liquid metaphor of, which I also find very descriptive.  The powder in that sutta refers to a bath powder which is dissolved into water until it is saturated with water, but still remains pliable.

I also felt my body "sleep". I did notice that the auditory charism seemed a bit louder than when I do sitting meditation though. I also experienced at least 10 kriyas - sudden jerks that happened in the neck, the knee and the elbow (all joints, for some reason).

However, I think the problem is that I do not know what I am looking for in the fourth jhana. I know that when the tingling rises and intensifies, accompanied by the loud ringing, I am in the first or second. However, I cannot seem to understand what fourth's no-pain-or-pleasure trait means. I think I might have reached equanimity, where sensations rose and disappeared while I stayed unaffected.

Each stage has its own characteristics as described in the suttas, and I find are quite accurate.  So, the 3rd jhana is characterized by equanimity, which I experience as a non-dual state in which my awareness is present by the I is not, and I become aware of the entire sensory domain as if I am a hollow tube through which sensation passes without me interpreting it.  In experience the charisms generally arise here.

The 4th jhana is generally a place of deep relaxation which one finds to be so soothing that one feels as if it could go on for every.  This stage is also characterized by space-time dilation, such that the passage of time is distorted, along with the sense of space, or location.

No void or out-of-body yet though. I did find myself suddenly thinking about separation, but I realize that it is another thought that is distracting me, so I repeatedly moved back to the first jhana and tried again. I will continue this practice until I am able to be lucid while sleeping.

I noticed that Jhanananda said he took a few months to master this on one of the GWV pages, but I wish to know how one get into the immaterial more quickly? Do I just let it go on its own way? Is it exactly the same as sitting meditation? Or perhaps am I being too impatient...

The need to do something is a characteristic that humans share.  Whereas, success in meditation is all about not doing, and allowing the process to unfold naturally.

While meditating, I have not any sexual desire, not had much visual charisms (in terms of floating faces like last time) or bright lights. Also, perhaps I am desensitised to the bliss, but I find the bliss not as intense as before.

The bliss goes through stages.  It is a good sign that sexual desires or fantasies are declining during your meditation sessions.  It suggests that the fetters are falling away from you.

[jay.validus]

Each stage has its own characteristics as described in the suttas, and I find are quite accurate.  So, the 3rd jhana is characterized by equanimity, which I experience as a non-dual state in which my awareness is present by the I is not, and I become aware of the entire sensory domain as if I am a hollow tube through which sensation passes without me interpreting it.  In experience the charisms generally arise here.

Interesting.  While I was out and about on a walk doing some writing on the back of a building, I wrote a little poem that went something like:

  Beyond the mind and body
        Centred on the void
             The world seems hollow
                 But you see the truth

While meditating, I have not any sexual desire, not had much visual charisms (in terms of floating faces like last time) or bright lights. Also, perhaps I am desensitised to the bliss, but I find the bliss not as intense as before.

No sexual desire... this is happening to me.... it is the weirdest thing, I am supposed to be in sexual maturity.  But when it comes, whooooooaaaaa!!!!

[Jhanananda]

Interesting.  While I was out and about on a walk doing some writing on the back of a building, I wrote a little poem that went something like:

  Beyond the mind and body
        Centred on the void
             The world seems hollow
                 But you see the truth

Sounds non-dual to me.

No sexual desire... this is happening to me.... it is the weirdest thing, I am supposed to be in sexual maturity.  But when it comes, whooooooaaaaa!!!!

This is common for people who meditate deeply.  You can have sex if you want, but there is not much drive to make it happen, and there is often so much emotional drama, and commitments, and obligations related to sex, that a mystic will often times just find life easier without it.

[bodhimind]

Interesting.  While I was out and about on a walk doing some writing on the back of a building, I wrote a little poem that went something like:

  Beyond the mind and body
        Centred on the void
             The world seems hollow
                 But you see the truth

I like that and can relate to it.

----

Mini-retreats are a good adjunct to a contemplative life.  Too many people who meditate just meditate once a year, or just once a week at the dharma center, or even daily just 20 minutes, or they attend one 10-day retreat in a lifetime, and that is it for their contemplative life. This means most of these people get nothing out of their meditation practice and are thus doing it out of blind faith. 

Yes, I always try to meditate everyday, I treat it as if it was a meal. Also, I place reminders all over my room/phone to ensure that I am keeping mindfulness over thoughts, speech and actions.

All 4 postures have their use, but it is true that depth in meditation, and especially the attainment of the OOBE, is easier for most people lying down.

May I know if the OOBE is only attained after the fourth jhana? Or can people slip into an OOBE without saturating in the four brahma-viharas/jhana factors? I was thinking about what you said last time and I think people who are asleep do drift off from their body, only that they are unaware of it.

Each stage has its own characteristics as described in the suttas, and I find are quite accurate.  So, the 3rd jhana is characterized by equanimity, which I experience as a non-dual state in which my awareness is present by the I is not, and I become aware of the entire sensory domain as if I am a hollow tube through which sensation passes without me interpreting it.  In experience the charisms generally arise here.

Thank you for clarifying this way, it feels more clear to me now.

----

Latest blog entry:

I lay down at 2pm for another lying-down meditation session. This time, I put away any notion of trying to generate a manomaya or whatever, because I just wanted to ride along and see where it took me. I will try to put a more comprehensive account here, so maybe it can be identified where I went wrong.

I dimmed the lights, because I figured that the lights shining on my eyelids would not help my body sleep. My whole body relaxed and I used my breath as a meditation object to get me into the right wholesome state. I did not experience any of the five hindrances. I simply followed the Anapanasati sutta and followed the breath - knowing it as long or short.

Then I became sensitive to my body. As it relaxed, I started to feel tingling appear at my palms and soles. I shifted my attention to the tingling in my palms, but spread my awareness to the whole body. I then felt a "light sensation" as if I was refreshed, with a light degree of happiness (probably piiti).

Next, I rode it along and suddenly I felt as if I was bobbing in my bed. I do not know if this is because of the blood flow, but I felt like I was floating on water. I went up and down and I simply rode it along. But soon, I felt myself pulse. I do believe that it was because of an increased heart-beat. My body seemed to pulsate again and again. It went so fast, I thought something would happen, but nothing did. It seemed to subside.

I realized that I heard a distinct, lower "hum" different from the light "ringing" sound that I normally hear. Maybe this is the real auditory charism? Did I mistake the auditory charism as something else? Is it possible to have two ringing sounds of different frequency?

I realized that I might have distracted myself with the thought, so I tried again, starting from first jhana. Same thing, I felt piti and sukha, as well as sustained/applied one-pointedness. Then I reached tranquility, as the sustaining/applied attention became more automatic.

This time, I felt my body seem to expand. It was as if I was getting bigger and bigger. I just let it go bigger and bigger. Also, this time, I witnessed some kind of visual charism under my eyelids, glowing lights of sorts. Then it subsided again. Man, I was puzzled. I've been riding the charisms and it just seems to subside, and I need to restart it.

I later realized that when my body seemed to pulsate and all that, my physical body would feel muscles straining. I would realize that I might have gotten tense, then I would try to relax them. But each time I tried, it seemed to fade away.

My question is, why does my heart-beat so fast? Also, I cannot seem to reach the equanimity, where you say that it feels as if one was a "hollow tube". I do try to ride the charisms without interpretation though. Is that what you meant? Thank you for your advice too, it has been really helpful for progress.

[Jhanananda]

May I know if the OOBE is only attained after the fourth jhana? Or can people slip into an OOBE without saturating in the four brahma-viharas/jhana factors? I was thinking about what you said last time and I think people who are asleep do drift off from their body, only that they are unaware of it.

According to MN 26 and 36 Siddhartha Gauatama had mastered most of the immaterial domains; however, he said he still had dhukkha.  He then found the 4 jhanas, and said that he was no free of dhukkha.  Also, there are organizations that promote the OOBE; however, they do not claim that their followers become free of any of the obsessive and compulsive behaviors.  And, I too found OOBEs at random intervals prior to taking up a contemplative life. We can thus conclude that the OOBE can be acquired without mastering the 4 jhanas.

Latest blog entry:

I lay down at 2pm for another lying-down meditation session. This time, I put away any notion of trying to generate a manomaya or whatever, because I just wanted to ride along and see where it took me. I will try to put a more comprehensive account here, so maybe it can be identified where I went wrong.

I dimmed the lights, because I figured that the lights shining on my eyelids would not help my body sleep. My whole body relaxed and I used my breath as a meditation object to get me into the right wholesome state. I did not experience any of the five hindrances. I simply followed the Anapanasati sutta and followed the breath - knowing it as long or short.

Then I became sensitive to my body. As it relaxed, I started to feel tingling appear at my palms and soles. I shifted my attention to the tingling in my palms, but spread my awareness to the whole body. I then felt a "light sensation" as if I was refreshed, with a light degree of happiness (probably piiti).

Next, I rode it along and suddenly I felt as if I was bobbing in my bed. I do not know if this is because of the blood flow, but I felt like I was floating on water. I went up and down and I simply rode it along. But soon, I felt myself pulse. I do believe that it was because of an increased heart-beat. My body seemed to pulsate again and again. It went so fast, I thought something would happen, but nothing did. It seemed to subside.

I realized that I heard a distinct, lower "hum" different from the light "ringing" sound that I normally hear. Maybe this is the real auditory charism? Did I mistake the auditory charism as something else? Is it possible to have two ringing sounds of different frequency?

I realized that I might have distracted myself with the thought, so I tried again, starting from first jhana. Same thing, I felt piti and sukha, as well as sustained/applied one-pointedness. Then I reached tranquility, as the sustaining/applied attention became more automatic.

This time, I felt my body seem to expand. It was as if I was getting bigger and bigger. I just let it go bigger and bigger. Also, this time, I witnessed some kind of visual charism under my eyelids, glowing lights of sorts. Then it subsided again. Man, I was puzzled. I've been riding the charisms and it just seems to subside, and I need to restart it.

I later realized that when my body seemed to pulsate and all that, my physical body would feel muscles straining. I would realize that I might have gotten tense, then I would try to relax them. But each time I tried, it seemed to fade away.

My question is, why does my heart-beat so fast? Also, I cannot seem to reach the equanimity, where you say that it feels as if one was a "hollow tube". I do try to ride the charisms without interpretation though. Is that what you meant? Thank you for your advice too, it has been really helpful for progress.

It sounds like you are making good progress, but it also sounds like you are trying to make it happen.  You do not need to go back to the beginning, when you lose concentration, because the experience of deep meditation is it oscillates, especially in its early stages.  Just learn to relax deeply while being mindfully self-aware, relaxing deeply, stilling the mind, and attending to the charisms as you are doing.  Then just do this session after session, day after day, year after year.  Eventually the deeper states will open up to you; probably sooner than later.

As to why your heart seemed to beat faster, it reminds me of about 2 decades ago I had gotten to a deeper level of my meditations and thought that my heart was beating loudly and faster, and thought I was headed to a heart attack.  In retrospect I realized that hearing one's heart beat is part of the hypersensitive stage, which typically comes after the 2nd jhana, and is required for attaining the charisms that are typical of the 3rd jhana.

[bodhimind]

It sounds like you are making good progress, but it also sounds like you are trying to make it happen.  You do not need to go back to the beginning, when you lose concentration, because the experience of deep meditation is it oscillates, especially in its early stages.  Just learn to relax deeply while being mindfully self-aware, relaxing deeply, stilling the mind, and attending to the charisms as you are doing.  Then just do this session after session, day after day, year after year.  Eventually the deeper states will open up to you; probably sooner than later.

Thank you for this advice, I have just applied it to my session today and I found myself just wandering the charisms, without trying to do anything. However, I found myself with a backache near my tailbone, so  I might shift my practice to the bed instead of a yoga mat so that the blood can circulate properly.

As to why your heart seemed to beat faster, it reminds me of about 2 decades ago I had gotten to a deeper level of my meditations and thought that my heart was beating loudly and faster, and thought I was headed to a heart attack.  In retrospect I realized that hearing one's heart beat is part of the hypersensitive stage, which typically comes after the 2nd jhana, and is required for attaining the charisms that are typical of the 3rd jhana.

Thank you for the clarification. I remember that I felt more peaceful after going through the hypersensitive stage. Does this mean that I have progressed past the 2nd in this case? Maybe I thought I was regressing when I was actually progressing.

One thing I find strange, is that in my session today, I find my mind so still, I think it might have been non-dual. I cannot seem to tell at that stage, as no thoughts float to the surface at all. It's almost like pure, blank awareness. At a certain point I felt a knife-like pain in my head, around my crown area.

In daily life, I have found a massive difference in my mind as compared to a few years ago before I practised meditation, where my mind could just remain in perfect silence for a very long time, as long as I did not intend my mind to "move". I notice what the Mahayanist buddhists call the "background awareness behind thoughts" and sometimes seem to reside there, such that thoughts do not pop out or bother me. When I reside here, I feel bliss mentally and physically.

I do not know however, if this is the right way for one to practice? From what I understand after reading the discourses, we should practice sati as part of the Eightfold Path, which involves introspection of thoughts and mind quality. But the problem is that sometimes I go into a non-dual state and thoughts surface very rarely. If I could describe it, it is a little like the gap between thoughts being extended and stretched. I would also feel tingling in my body as I do my daily work. I also tend to notice myself in unwholesome states like sluggishness or over-excitedness and try to allow the mind to settle into a more optimal state.

So far, I have not been able to replicate the same "fearful experience" a few months back, which caused me to lose sleep at night. I do not know if I have regressed. But I will continue to practice rigorously.

[Jhanananda]

Thank you for this advice, I have just applied it to my session today and I found myself just wandering the charisms, without trying to do anything. However, I found myself with a backache near my tailbone, so  I might shift my practice to the bed instead of a yoga mat so that the blood can circulate properly.

part of learning to meditate deeply is learning how to sit for long periods of time, so the successful contemplative will work on his/her sitting position and equipment.  I found sitting on a wool carpet with a wool blanket rolled and shoved under my butt works best.  In the beginning we will need more equipment to make sitting comfortable, then we will need once our body gets used to sitting on the floor with crossed legs.

Thank you for the clarification. I remember that I felt more peaceful after going through the hypersensitive stage. Does this mean that I have progressed past the 2nd in this case? Maybe I thought I was regressing when I was actually progressing.

If your mind was still and you felt greater depth, and you passed through the hypersensitive phase, then it sounds like you made it to the 3rd jhana.

One thing I find strange, is that in my session today, I find my mind so still, I think it might have been non-dual. I cannot seem to tell at that stage, as no thoughts float to the surface at all. It's almost like pure, blank awareness. At a certain point I felt a knife-like pain in my head, around my crown area.

This sounds like the 3rd jhana; however, the "knife-like" pain in your head sounds organic and thus a coincidence.  If every time you get to this depth you feel a "knife-like" pain in your head, then we will have to conclude it is a product of your meditation practice, and make some accommodation for it.

In daily life, I have found a massive difference in my mind as compared to a few years ago before I practised meditation, where my mind could just remain in perfect silence for a very long time, as long as I did not intend my mind to "move". I notice what the Mahayanist buddhists call the "background awareness behind thoughts" and sometimes seem to reside there, such that thoughts do not pop out or bother me. When I reside here, I feel bliss mentally and physically.

It sounds like you are skilled in the second jhana, and you should keep that up as a background level during your day, if you can.

I do not know however, if this is the right way for one to practice? From what I understand after reading the discourses, we should practice sati as part of the Eightfold Path, which involves introspection of thoughts and mind quality. But the problem is that sometimes I go into a non-dual state and thoughts surface very rarely. If I could describe it, it is a little like the gap between thoughts being extended and stretched. I would also feel tingling in my body as I do my daily work.

Practice comes before attainment.  Once one has attainment, practice is no longer needed, other than to retain the attainment.  So, when your mind is still, and you feel non-dual, then don't bother with practice, just maintain the attainment.  The "tingling" in your body sounds like the tactile charism.  If it is, then attend to that throughout the day.

I also tend to notice myself in unwholesome states like sluggishness or over-excitedness and try to allow the mind to settle into a more optimal state.

This is good mindful self-awareness, whereby when we find our mind in an unwholesome state, then we bring our awareness back to a wholesome state.

So far, I have not been able to replicate the same "fearful experience" a few months back, which caused me to lose sleep at night. I do not know if I have regressed. But I will continue to practice rigorously.

When we traverse into a deeper samadhi we can by frightened by the new depth.  Once we get used to this level of greater depth in meditation, then we no longer are frightened by it.  Good work.  Keep it up.

[bodhimind]

Today's session was very deep.

Firstly, I finally understood the difference between the thinking mind and the "essence" that drives these mental/sensory objects into being. Understanding the "I" of "I am X" helped me understand the purpose of attention.

I imagined it like having a shepherd to organize the movement of the sheep. When the sheep are organized, they can then be led out of the field. Then only after the sheep has departed (or that we no longer perceive it) can we see the green field behind the sheep. The green field is this "essence" that I cannot quite describe. Putting it into words places yet another layer above this non-duality.

I experienced the auditory charism with a much higher ringing than previously. It came to the point where my visual charism became so bright that despite having my eyes closed, I could see bright light from within. I also became very equanimous, to the point of not being able to feel my body. When there were noises outside, I could hear them, but I interpreted them as a sense object and did not participate in it.

I realized that when there is an object, it does not come to you. Instead, you go to it. So that is what it means by "drawing attention". When the door slams and there is a shockwave, it is my body and brain responding. By choosing to go it, I allow it to be attached. By choosing not to go with it, I let go of it and become non-dwelling and detached.

I also do not know why, but I felt inspired to express it as a poem (I am not very good in it, so forgive me):

Sheep led away by the shepherd
Revealed clear fields of brilliant green.
But if the sheep were many and scattered
the pure green will never be seen.

I feel that this might be the way to continue meditating. I am not very sure to which jhana I hit this time. I know that I felt a lot of bliss throughout my body. It was creeping around my face by the time I started to become less aware of the body. There was a lot of bliss especially in the upper part of my head, the crown area.

When I opened my eyes, a lot of time passed. It was as if I lost track of myself meditating or being "myself". I did sitting meditation as well, just to keep track. I started off with Anapanasati, using the breath as the object.

Soon after, I seemed to ride the phenomena. I was vaguely "knowing" that the breath was there, but I wasn't "concentrated" on it. It was like my awareness expanded and "retreated" to this attentive force behind the thoughts.

[Jhanananda]

Congratulations, bodhimind, it sounds like you arrived at a very solid, and classic, 3rd jhana.  Keep it up.

Interesting that you found poetry as a way to express your state.  Poetry might just be the best way to do so.  This is why my first book was poetry.

[jay.validus]

I like when people express the non-duel mind states with poetry and art.  Although useful, I find when we use words to explain where consciousness can go it becomes too scientific, which can be limiting.  Words not only limit the beauty and power of the experience, but in how someone relates to it.

When I was living on a meditation centre, I was drawn to the word jhana.  I have no idea why, I was meditating and the voice said, go understand jhana.  I went to their bookshelf and found the only book which had anything on jhana.  It was written like a math book and no actual explaination was given, other than it was something only someone else like Gotama could experience.   Yeah okay, I thought, and rolled my eyes.  Too limiting.

I find being able to explain your experience in your own words becomes very meaningful.  Adding in an addendum of how someone else explains it, like in the Sutta Pitaka or Interior Castle, only helps to strengthen your understanding and your explaination to others.  Prior to reading the the defination of jhana in the suttas, I had this expereince I called "expanded awareness", where you move beyond your thoughts and you get more sensitive.  The world becomes hollow, empty, sometimes your thoughts will just stop.   Things get bigger, more intense on the inside.  It's jhana/absorbtion, but just defined a different way.

If you do any more poetry, please post it on here. I would love to read it.