Author Topic: Bodhimind's Blog  (Read 65378 times)

Jhanananda

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2015, 12:33:29 PM »
I'm starting to be a little confused...

I know that I am in a first-person's perspective... But sometimes when I go into deep states, I often go non-dual and lose even that feeling of first-person. Isn't this losing consciousness, similar to deep sleeping states? Or, is it required that we stay conscious throughout the deep state? Is good meditation one where you stay perfectly clear of what you are doing? Or do you fade in and out of this lucidity?

The loss of a sense of self is characteristic of the non-dual experience of deep meditation, and does not require loss of awareness.  So, as long as you are aware, regardless of whether you have lost the other cognitive components, then you are correctly entering deep meditation states.

Sometimes I am subtly aware that I am in dreams or have left the body in sleep. However, I feel like I am powered by compulsions or certain suppressed mannerisms and repressions. I do not have much control over what I see or what happens to me. They are quite spontaneous and in the moment.

The more you master deep meditation, then the more you will be freed from your compulsions and suppressed mannerisms and repressions.  This is called 'liberation' (vimokha).

Now I'm starting to question what enlightenment really means... Some people say that it is the awakening to the dharmakaya that has always been there, union with the divine, etc. I still cannot fathom what it means, it feels as if there is a large gap between where I am and what the divine is.

From what I understand, we let the thought-stream cease so that the mind becomes clearer. So when we perceive a stimulus, it becomes a sharp juxtaposition to this unmanifest, non-dual mind. I can somewhat feel or instinctively know there is something there, but I cannot reach it.

Even when I follow the charisms, it feels as if these charisms are part of a certain sense that is birthed from this non-dual mind. I'm still stuck... I hope that I can progress in the immaterial samadhis after having strong jhana factors cultivated, and this might help me understand it experientially to a deeper degree.

The first thing to get is to realize that no religion relies upon a cogent and logically sound philosophy, and relies heavily upon a deeply flawed translation of their own literature. All religions have a long history of marginalizing their mystics.  Thus, mainstream religion relies upon lies, upon lies.

The unity experience is the 8th stage of samadhi, so one has to keep going deeper for that experience.

Along the way, we become more and more saturated with the signs of deep meditation (jhana-nimitta/charisms).  At the third stage of deep meditation we develop equanimity.  Equanimity is required for traversing all 8 stages of deep meditation.  The more time you spend in deep meditation, the more equanimity one develops.  So, just keep meditating deeply, and you will develop the skills you need to traverse all 8 stages of deep meditation.  Once you have traverse all 8 stages of deep meditation you will be free, free, free from obsessions, compulsions, and addictions.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 12:35:01 PM by Jhanananda »
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bodhimind

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2015, 07:53:22 AM »
Something strange happened today. It happened to be my birthday today for my physical incarnation, and I met another contemplative who had very similar experiences of bliss/joy through his kriya yoga meditations.

He told me about this video of a Western contemplative who awakened. His description was strikingly similar to what Jhanananda described, especially about Indra's Web, where he could see stars/constellations everywhere. He talked about the different realms and it seemed like he was genuinely enlightened. Here's the video, if you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqYi-uM5uW4 . He starts talking about the enlightenment state around 16 minutes or so.

He describes what Jhanananda often calls being "raped by the divine". I found that particularly interesting. Just thought it might be a good watch for many others here on the forum.

I also realized that when I meet another contemplative who has had a state of attainment (from his description, my friend seems to be at least second jhana), I start to experience mini-orgasms within my body, a massive contentment and joy. It was so intense I had to stop for a while to let the joy saturate and ebb away.

Jhanananda

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2015, 01:32:36 PM »
He told me about this video of a Western contemplative who awakened. His description was strikingly similar to what Jhanananda described, especially about Indra's Web, where he could see stars/constellations everywhere. He talked about the different realms and it seemed like he was genuinely enlightened. Here's the video, if you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqYi-uM5uW4 . He starts talking about the enlightenment state around 16 minutes or so.

He describes what Jhanananda often calls being "raped by the divine". I found that particularly interesting. Just thought it might be a good watch for many others here on the forum.

Thank-you for the link Sat Shree - Buddha at the Gas Pump Interview.  My first reaction is negative on the aspect that he had not lead a contemplative life, then had a "spontaneous, instant enlightenment." In my experience, and my case histories enlightenment is neither spontaneous nor instant.  However, claims of "spontaneous, instant enlightenment" is typical of the fraud, and/or the well-meaning, but deluded devout.

By the way, the reference "Buddha At The Gas Pump" is surely a reference to Dan Millman's book Way of the Peaceful Warrior.

His inspirations are problematic as well:
Meher Baba was more about devotion and guru-worship, than deep meditation.
The hunger project was a project of Werner Erhard, who used all of the money donated to the project to end hunger, to purchase a race car and drive it on the racing circuit.

Conclusion:
It sounds like, while Sat Shree may have had a few genuine religious experiences, it is doubtful that he has sufficiently unpacked his belief systems, nor ever took up a rigorous, self-aware, contemplative life, nor developed a lifestyle that sustains genuine full spiritual awakening, to justify his claim that he is "enlightened."

When investigating any spiritual teacher's claims we always want to know what fruit that they have experienced, understand, and can teach.  Core aspects of those fruit are freedom from addictive behaviors.  Yes, he claims he has had some bliss, but does he understand the depth of bliss, joy and ecstasy, and a path to it?
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Zack

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2015, 01:52:52 PM »
Happy solar return, Leo. :)

bodhimind

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #79 on: August 26, 2015, 08:51:16 AM »
Thank you for the analysis and clarification Jhanananda, I think I got too excited about him expressing his religious experiences that I forgot to judge one by his/her fruit.

Thank you Zack.

---

Just wanted to record a pretty strange session today:

1. Sat in half-lotus and decided to start with the relaxation procedure I learnt in the Silva Method, just to mix things around a bit. I would have awareness at each part of my body, then breathe into it and relax that body-part. I went from crown to feet, then back up again. This made my body extremely free of agitations. Along the way I experienced quite a lot of kriya (referring to twitches).

2. Next, I found that just by relaxing, tactile and auditory charisms rose. I also felt like my body was rotating clockwise. So by paying attention to both the sound and the physical tingling, as well as the breath in the background, my mind became somewhat one-pointed and sustained. Bliss and joy rose. So I would assume I was in first jhana.

3. I then went into a non-dual state. I would assume this was equanimity? I am not too sure how to classify it.

4. Then came the strange part. My body started taking in air, then my chest expanded to its maximum length. At this point I was just riding along with what the body did, trying to stay detached. Then the breath stopped and my body felt like a vase of air. When this happened, my body started to get extremely hot. I felt something rise upwards, then a very, very warm sensation hung around my heart area, spreading slightly upwards to my neck. I did not feel itching of any sort - That usually happens when I felt strong heat, but this one was blissful in nature. I did not feel fear and my mind kept still throughout. It culminated at that intensity and remained there. I expected it to become too hot to bear, but this did not happen, it remained at a warm, but comfortable temperature.

5. When I got out of my meditation, I feel as if my body was very hot, and a strange bliss seems to permeate through my body, as if I got out of a hot bath. My palms were wet with sweat. My tongue seemed to have a very sweet saliva.

Extra Notes: If it is of any worth, just including that I keep my mind in wholesome states throughout the day and it is rare that I get any mood swings, just very pleasant bliss. I sometimes get very strong mini-orgasms when I am doing my daily tasks, and I have to stop for a while to let the intensity taper off. They usually are around my head area and sometimes in my upper torso. I am wondering if this is normal?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 08:56:50 AM by bodhimind »

Jhanananda

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #80 on: August 26, 2015, 11:55:56 AM »
Good work, Zack, this is all normal progress, so whatever you doing, it is working for you. 

Note:
When you felt your body rotating you were on the verge of going OOBE.  To go OOBE at this point would have been to go with the rotating sensation.

The sweet saliva is the olfactory charism.
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jay.validus

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2015, 10:16:41 PM »
Hey Bodhimind,

The mini-orgasms you speak of I find ebb and flow for me.   I know there are many days I could wake up and be in this orgasmic bliss, and spend the entire day like that.  If the inner world shifts just slightly, I could see the divine in everything.  I could look at someone who I find unpleasant and see God in them.  I could turn my concentration inwards and see that God exists inside me.  The same could be said of anything I turn my concentration towards while in that state.

I remember I used to turn my attention to certain questions when these experiences would happen, ie, Who am I?  What am I?  What is the nature of the universe?  What is the universe contained within?  This created very deep rooted and terrifying experiences.  I am starting to get used to it.  Relax.... relax... 

I'll take note of that Jhanananda, to focus on the rotating sensation.

bodhimind

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2015, 05:19:13 PM »
Good work, Zack, this is all normal progress, so whatever you doing, it is working for you. 

Note:
When you felt your body rotating you were on the verge of going OOBE.  To go OOBE at this point would have been to go with the rotating sensation.

The sweet saliva is the olfactory charism.

Noted, I will ride the sensation if I experience it in future.

Hey Bodhimind,

The mini-orgasms you speak of I find ebb and flow for me.   I know there are many days I could wake up and be in this orgasmic bliss, and spend the entire day like that.  If the inner world shifts just slightly, I could see the divine in everything.  I could look at someone who I find unpleasant and see God in them.  I could turn my concentration inwards and see that God exists inside me.  The same could be said of anything I turn my concentration towards while in that state.

I remember I used to turn my attention to certain questions when these experiences would happen, ie, Who am I?  What am I?  What is the nature of the universe?  What is the universe contained within?  This created very deep rooted and terrifying experiences.  I am starting to get used to it.  Relax.... relax... 

I'll take note of that Jhanananda, to focus on the rotating sensation.

Exactly this. There is so much bliss. I find myself looking at people and also seeing how the Divine is within them, but yet these people are unable to realize that. I've also had the same experience of seeing the divine in people who have unpleasant behaviours. Yes... "who am I" really made me panic the first time I asked it, so much that I experienced a bit of a spiritual crisis.

----

I've tried talking people into these experiences in non-Buddhist jargon and I find that repetition and patience is key. I continuously ask my circle of friends about their beliefs and slowly let them see the commonalities between these deep experiences I have and their religion. They are slowly starting to see how these structured religions are aberrant.

There are the people who are indoctrinated from birth to Christian thought of "join us or suffer in hell", there are the people who follow a religion but are open to others and also people who have a "universal religion" or rather different views such as believing in guardian angels.

I realized that the first is the hardest to talk to, for they quote the Bible or their pastor in whatever they say, and are quick to demote anything that you talk about. I do not generally try to push against their beliefs. I find a huge problem in the way how these pastors (or shepherds) lead their flock, as each pastor has their own interpretation of the Bible and and all of them do not agree with each other. They have no fruit and simply because they have taken a theology class, they acquired the right to preach. I tried to bring up the idea that the pastor is simply specialized in literature without having experience.

The others are much easier to talk to, they just require a bit of talking. I know a friend who recently started hearing auditory charisms.

Also, I wonder if it is possible for one to "spread" absorption states just by being in proximity? For example, when they are nearer to me, it feels as if they "tune in" and also experience slight charisms. I've managed to get them to feel the tingling and sometimes even the auditory.

On a side note, I find Catholic friends to be far easier to talk to regarding these experiences. One friend talked about his prayer practice with the rosary and how he used it to contemplate on his sins. I was thinking that he was in a way recognizing his own afflictions and dealing with them. I then asked him if he experienced rapture and he said "no", because it was a solemn procedure. In an attempt to help, I told him shifting away an unwholesome mental state (torpor as a result of the solemnity) can open one up to the blissful states. I think that if one is able to remember an experience where one felt loved, then it also can help, so I told him that. I do not know if I gave good advice, but I hope it helped.

My recent session:

Firstly, I anchored on the breath. Doing this, I withdrew from the senses and withdrew from unskillful mental qualities. Having done so, I breathed in and out, sensitive to piti and sukha. I let the body breathe on its own.

Having tingling risen in my palms, I anchored my attention to the tingling. I took note of the tension of the body and released them, taking note of the "right grip on the anchor". I also took note of the "horse-riding" metaphor. Having done so, the auditory charism rose.

I followed the tactile charism and the auditory charism was in the background. Mini-orgasms started happening within my body as the joy/bliss intensified greatly. My mind then went blank, but I was vaguely aware of mental images surfacing within my mind's eye. The orgasms grew, and then I reached a state of non-duality. I was aware of a loud, sudden sound in the background but it simply remained as a sound and did not jolt me.

I stayed with it for a while and reached a state of lighter tingling where I did not feel my body. I suspect that it might have been the manomaya, however, I was still not skilful enough to shed the body.

Another thing that I was aware of was how my neck to spine area would seem to automatically release tension and readjust itself. It felt like some energy was helping to readjust it. My head would then move along and tuck back, so that I was erect in spine.

---

Was reading Jhanananda's journal entries and found them to be very enlightening. My heart goes out to what you've gone through. Also, I particularly liked this poem:

Quote
Hinduism and Buddhism
have a name for spiritual materialism
It is called nama rupa.
Which is ego identification
With the concepts and objects
Of religion.

Just throw the paper hats away
And go back to the wilderness,
Naked, where you came from,
And follow the way,
The truth and the life of
Freedom from identification.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 06:43:00 PM by bodhimind »

Jhanananda

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2015, 02:26:36 AM »
Also, I wonder if it is possible for one to "spread" absorption states just by being in proximity? For example, when they are nearer to me, it feels as if they "tune in" and also experience slight charisms. I've managed to get them to feel the tingling and sometimes even the auditory.

Yes, when a mystic meditates with others, then they have an opportunity to tap into the place where we go.  This is why group meditation, and group meditation retreats are so valuable, because it can be truly life changing for those who have not tapped into the charisms yet.

My recent session:

Firstly, I anchored on the breath. Doing this, I withdrew from the senses and withdrew from unskillful mental qualities. Having done so, I breathed in and out, sensitive to piti and sukha. I let the body breathe on its own.

Having tingling risen in my palms, I anchored my attention to the tingling. I took note of the tension of the body and released them, taking note of the "right grip on the anchor". I also took note of the "horse-riding" metaphor. Having done so, the auditory charism rose.

I followed the tactile charism and the auditory charism was in the background. Mini-orgasms started happening within my body as the joy/bliss intensified greatly. My mind then went blank, but I was vaguely aware of mental images surfacing within my mind's eye. The orgasms grew, and then I reached a state of non-duality. I was aware of a loud, sudden sound in the background but it simply remained as a sound and did not jolt me.

I stayed with it for a while and reached a state of lighter tingling where I did not feel my body. I suspect that it might have been the manomaya, however, I was still not skilful enough to shed the body.

Another thing that I was aware of was how my neck to spine area would seem to automatically release tension and readjust itself. It felt like some energy was helping to readjust it. My head would then move along and tuck back, so that I was erect in spine.

Yes, this is good, skillful practice.  No, it was not an OOBE (manomaya) yet.  But, it does sound like the 4th jhana.  For an OOBE (manomaya) to occur there must be no awareness of the external world, the body, etc., and it is hyper real (super conscious).
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bodhimind

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #84 on: August 30, 2015, 08:25:43 AM »
Yes, this is good, skillful practice.  No, it was not an OOBE (manomaya) yet.  But, it does sound like the 4th jhana.  For an OOBE (manomaya) to occur there must be no awareness of the external world, the body, etc., and it is hyper real (super conscious).

Thank you for the clarification, this makes a lot of sense.

I am slightly confused about something though, I remember hearing that shedding the body only happens in sleeping meditation. Or am I mistaken? It is possible for one to shed the body while in sitting? Or perhaps, is it more difficult to?

I remember an experience where i could not tell where my body was, because I lost all feelings of my body, it was as if my body was space, or like an empty container of some sort.

The only two times I had somewhat of an OOBE was when I meditated and went into sleep, and both times back-flipped out of the body (while lying down). Also, I do recall seeing a person in proximity before I left the body. Is there a possibility that there might be a being that helped me with it? Or was it simply because I reached the right state and left the body of my own volition? And the hyper-real thing I noticed was only in my auditory faculty where I could hear very pleasant music, but I was not used to having sight through my mind's eye, so I was blind through the experience.

Jhanananda

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2015, 11:10:01 AM »
Thank you for the clarification, this makes a lot of sense.

I am slightly confused about something though, I remember hearing that shedding the body only happens in sleeping meditation. Or am I mistaken? It is possible for one to shed the body while in sitting? Or perhaps, is it more difficult to?

I remember an experience where i could not tell where my body was, because I lost all feelings of my body, it was as if my body was space, or like an empty container of some sort.

Generally it is true that one must be lying down to shed the body, because one can relax more deeply, when lying down, and once one leaves the body, then generally the body will just fall over when the host is gone.  However, there are circumstances when one can enter very deep absorption states from a sitting position, such as from a powerful kundalini rush, because I have done this on many occasions. So, perhaps this was true for you as well.  Nonetheless, the 4th jhana generally has very little awareness of the body and its surroundings associated with it. 

One has to be the best judge of a subjective experience, because no one can objectively know precisely what another is doing subjectively.  I only give general guidelines for one to determine one's own subjective states.

The only two times I had somewhat of an OOBE was when I meditated and went into sleep, and both times back-flipped out of the body (while lying down).

Yes, this is the general experience of the OOBE, with the exception of some people may roll out, or forward flip, or rotate disc-like.  I have exited in all of these ways at one time or another.

Also, I do recall seeing a person in proximity before I left the body. Is there a possibility that there might be a being that helped me with it? Or was it simply because I reached the right state and left the body of my own volition?

Yes, people often report having a being present, who helps them out.  They are often called 'guides.'

And the hyper-real thing I noticed was only in my auditory faculty where I could hear very pleasant music, but I was not used to having sight through my mind's eye, so I was blind through the experience.

Yes, we may not have all of our faculties functional when we go OOBE.  When first learning to OOBE some people do not hear, and/or see, and/or cannot move.

Good work.
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bodhimind

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #86 on: September 01, 2015, 03:53:10 PM »
Generally it is true that one must be lying down to shed the body, because one can relax more deeply, when lying down, and once one leaves the body, then generally the body will just fall over when the host is gone.  However, there are circumstances when one can enter very deep absorption states from a sitting position, such as from a powerful kundalini rush, because I have done this on many occasions. So, perhaps this was true for you as well.  Nonetheless, the 4th jhana generally has very little awareness of the body and its surroundings associated with it. 
That clarifies things, thank you for explaining.

Yes, people often report having a being present, who helps them out.  They are often called 'guides.'
Are these 'guides' attained mystics? Or are they perhaps just a deceased relative? Could it be an astral body of an existing person? Also, I was wondering if people can be pulled out of their bodies?

---

I was reflecting on my life and leading a contemplative life. From what I understand, living a contemplative lifestyle is the definite path to liberation.

However, a part of me feels like I am moving along with societal norms. I am studying medicine and going to become a medical doctor. Another part of me feels like I want to experience a relationship with a woman. I recognize myself having some sort of craving for becoming close with a lady, although it has less to do with sexual craving, since I have found that the bliss of the jhanas is much greater than that of an orgasm.

In accordance to my actions, I would be expected to 'return the favor' to my parents, allow them to live a good life and then retire. They also expect me to be 'normal' - that is, to marry a woman and have a family with a job. I would also become a breadwinner of sorts, alongside with financial funding for my brother's education (he is at least a decade younger than me). With such a responsibility at hand, it is impossible for me to walk away into the woods (there aren't many in my hometown Singapore, but there are quite a few in Australia).

Part of me is telling myself: I'm only 23, I can't just leave worldly matters.

Is it enough for me, right now, to simply keep up with rigorous meditation (at least an hour or so everyday) - usually at night when everyone else has gone to sleep? From what i understand, when I get to a certain fruit, I will have to base my lifestyle around my contemplation. This would seem a particularly arduous task since the medical profession requires a very stringent schedule. I've been wrestling with this direction of my life for a long time.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 03:54:48 PM by bodhimind »

Jhanananda

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #87 on: September 02, 2015, 02:46:35 AM »
Are these 'guides' attained mystics? Or are they perhaps just a deceased relative? Could it be an astral body of an existing person? Also, I was wondering if people can be pulled out of their bodies?

Guides are generally advanced mystics who have gained control in the immaterial domains.  They can help someone out of body, but only if the person is willing.  If there is any resistance, then no.

I was reflecting on my life and leading a contemplative life. From what I understand, living a contemplative lifestyle is the definite path to liberation.

Yes, it is part of the righteousness that leads to emancipation.

However, a part of me feels like I am moving along with societal norms. I am studying medicine and going to become a medical doctor. Another part of me feels like I want to experience a relationship with a woman. I recognize myself having some sort of craving for becoming close with a lady, although it has less to do with sexual craving, since I have found that the bliss of the jhanas is much greater than that of an orgasm.

There is nothing wrong with the life of the householder, and a profession.  If anything, the mendicant life is full of distractions.  One just needs to live one's life as a rigorous, self-aware contemplative to make progress toward fruition.

In accordance to my actions, I would be expected to 'return the favor' to my parents, allow them to live a good life and then retire. They also expect me to be 'normal' - that is, to marry a woman and have a family with a job. I would also become a breadwinner of sorts, alongside with financial funding for my brother's education (he is at least a decade younger than me). With such a responsibility at hand, it is impossible for me to walk away into the woods (there aren't many in my hometown Singapore, but there are quite a few in Australia).

Part of me is telling myself: I'm only 23, I can't just leave worldly matters.

As a parent I want these things for my children as well.  It is normal parenting.  And, as I said above, there is no reason why one could not live a householder life, while still being a contemplative.  After all, I spent 30 years as a householder: raising two children; spending 15 years at the university studying and doing research; and developing a career.  So, you can to.

Is it enough for me, right now, to simply keep up with rigorous meditation (at least an hour or so everyday) - usually at night when everyone else has gone to sleep? From what i understand, when I get to a certain fruit, I will have to base my lifestyle around my contemplation. This would seem a particularly arduous task since the medical profession requires a very stringent schedule. I've been wrestling with this direction of my life for a long time.

The challenge for anyone who seeks enlightenment in this very lifetime to fit the contemplative life into whatever lifestyle one has to live.  So, I started and ended every day with deep meditation, and when I returned from school and/or work, I also retreat into my meditation space.  I believe it made me a better father, husband, employee, and professional.  So, you can do it to, and your family and colleagues will find you better to get along with.
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bodhimind

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #88 on: September 03, 2015, 09:46:24 AM »
As a parent I want these things for my children as well.  It is normal parenting.  And, as I said above, there is no reason why one could not live a householder life, while still being a contemplative.  After all, I spent 30 years as a householder: raising two children; spending 15 years at the university studying and doing research; and developing a career.  So, you can to.

The challenge for anyone who seeks enlightenment in this very lifetime to fit the contemplative life into whatever lifestyle one has to live.  So, I started and ended every day with deep meditation, and when I returned from school and/or work, I also retreat into my meditation space.  I believe it made me a better father, husband, employee, and professional.  So, you can do it to, and your family and colleagues will find you better to get along with.

Thank you for clarifying this, my confusion has cleared a lot.

I was also wondering about sex and marriage. I've read the article on the GWV a dozen times and I've been celibate for quite a while, not indulging in sexual thoughts since they are attachments to the flesh body. I've been wondering - Even though I see no need for sex, sex may be requested from my partner, should I be married. I feel like sex would be indulging in sense-pleasure and is opposite to what we do in the first jhana, which is to withdraw from sensory pleasure. How should a contemplative have sex without that sensory desire then?

---

On a side note, I met with a contemplative friend who does kriya yoga to access the ecstasies. He used the entry of sound (focusing on the astral sound of the chakras) and said that it gave him full-body bliss. I could see the common points with jhana, where a one-pointed mind leads to the arising of bliss/joy in the first jhana.

Then we started discussing about Eckhart Tolle, who I remember Jhanon talked about when he wanted to write his book. I've just read his "Power of Now" and realized that he makes sense in saying that many people ruminate about the past and future. From my observation after reading his material, it seems like, to me at least, that "anxiety" relates to future thoughts and "torpor/sluggishness" relates to past thoughts. So his definition of "now" seems more like shifting away from unwholesomeness, and more like a "gateway" into experiencing the jhanas.

There was a part in the book which coincidentally talked about relationships, and it remarked that relationships were nearly almost dysfunctional, which corresponds to what Jhanananda once said about families. Coincidentally I was doing a reading on how families were formed from a biological perspective (Hamilton's Rule of cost/benefit), which pointed how the interactions leading to the formation of a family cluster were cohesively done to have the best way to "preserve" the genetic material of the individual in the future generations.

Perhaps one lesson I could learn is to improve myself, so that the relationship won't be 'addictive' but handled from an enlightened point of view. I realize that "love" is a social construct - people constitute it as external causes but it really is something we allow ourselves to feel... if I were to break it down, it's just like the state of bliss/joy. It's pleasantness...

---

And an interesting verse from the Old Testament (Ecclesiastes) that seems to resonate with me now:

Quote
As everyone comes, so they depart,
and what do they gain,
since they toil for the wind?
All their days they eat in darkness,
with great frustration, affliction and anger..

Also, it seems to me that "Christ" is Atman while "God" is Brahman. Or did I perhaps get this wrong? Hence, to not believe in the Christ - means to not believe in the divine. Perhaps that is what the Christian context means. I feel that I can understand the meaning of "judgement" if it is interpreted this way.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 09:48:47 AM by bodhimind »

Jhanananda

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Re: Bodhimind's Blog
« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2015, 01:36:48 PM »
Thank you for clarifying this, my confusion has cleared a lot.

I was also wondering about sex and marriage. I've read the article on the GWV a dozen times and I've been celibate for quite a while, not indulging in sexual thoughts since they are attachments to the flesh body. I've been wondering - Even though I see no need for sex, sex may be requested from my partner, should I be married. I feel like sex would be indulging in sense-pleasure and is opposite to what we do in the first jhana, which is to withdraw from sensory pleasure. How should a contemplative have sex without that sensory desire then?

Relationship for most people is hardly worth it, if sex, and reproduction, are not part of the relationship.  So, one would expect that there would be some sex in a relationship. 

On the other hand, relationships can lead to perdition. I know this from personal experience.  So, it is better, if you feel you need relationship, to find a person with whom you can live with for the rest of your life.  This would be someone who shares your value for developing the deep meditation experience, and has understood that the GWV has possibly the best handle on a lifestyle that leads there than any religion today.

On a side note, I met with a contemplative friend who does kriya yoga to access the ecstasies. He used the entry of sound (focusing on the astral sound of the chakras) and said that it gave him full-body bliss. I could see the common points with jhana, where a one-pointed mind leads to the arising of bliss/joy in the first jhana.

Then we started discussing about Eckhart Tolle, who I remember Jhanon talked about when he wanted to write his book. I've just read his "Power of Now" and realized that he makes sense in saying that many people ruminate about the past and future. From my observation after reading his material, it seems like, to me at least, that "anxiety" relates to future thoughts and "torpor/sluggishness" relates to past thoughts. So his definition of "now" seems more like shifting away from unwholesomeness, and more like a "gateway" into experiencing the jhanas.

Yes, there are many paths that lead to the first or second jhana, but none of these paths seem to recognize anything beyond the first or second jhana.  The devout of every religion tend to end up in the first jhana, but absolutely reject the idea that there is anything beyond the first or second jhana.

There was a part in the book which coincidentally talked about relationships, and it remarked that relationships were nearly almost dysfunctional, which corresponds to what Jhanananda once said about families. Coincidentally I was doing a reading on how families were formed from a biological perspective (Hamilton's Rule of cost/benefit), which pointed how the interactions leading to the formation of a family cluster were cohesively done to have the best way to "preserve" the genetic material of the individual in the future generations.

As an anthropologist, and having married twice, and having fathered 3 children, I happen to find the whole reason why the nuclear family exists is successful reproduction in humans requires someone to take care of the child almost full-time during its protracted maturation.  This could be done by a husband-wife team, or by a small village.

Perhaps one lesson I could learn is to improve myself, so that the relationship won't be 'addictive' but handled from an enlightened point of view. I realize that "love" is a social construct - people constitute it as external causes but it really is something we allow ourselves to feel... if I were to break it down, it's just like the state of bliss/joy. It's pleasantness...

What I observe around me in the culture at large is relationship is mostly driven by addiction of one form or another.  So, I agree, one who works on him or her-self to 4th level mastery will be over addictive behavior, and be a good mate, spouse, father, etc.  But, both partners in a relationship will need to be at that level, because, from my experience, having a relationship with someone who is not at 4th level mastery is likely to lead to perdition.

And an interesting verse from the Old Testament (Ecclesiastes) that seems to resonate with me now:

Quote
As everyone comes, so they depart,
and what do they gain,
since they toil for the wind?
All their days they eat in darkness,
with great frustration, affliction and anger..

Nice quote, which I believe everyone should keep in mind.

Also, it seems to me that "Christ" is Atman while "God" is Brahman. Or did I perhaps get this wrong? Hence, to not believe in the Christ - means to not believe in the divine. Perhaps that is what the Christian context means. I feel that I can understand the meaning of "judgement" if it is interpreted this way.

Well, if we were going to compare parallel concepts from one culture to the next, then I would say that avatar=Buddha=messiah=Christ.

Whereas, I would say Atman=soul.

Shakti=samadhi=Shekhinah=Holy Spirit.

And, Brahman=God.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 01:40:26 PM by Jhanananda »
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