Omnipresence(?), and Guiding Challenges

[Jhanon]

It strongly appears I'm beginning to consciously experience early onset omnipresence as it has been defined elsewhere on this forum. I didn't expect this to happen for many years. It sufficiently confused me enough to cause considerable difficulty for about a day. Until that point, it was just curious reports. It took several hours of deep meditative reflection until I realized what was happening.

The earliest of these reports began about a year ago or so. It was reports from people that they were hearing my voice saying loving things, or visiting them during sleep, but it soon escalated--these experiences being reported to me. These are exclusively individuals I've guided into the stream, like many of you have. Initially, I would simply respond "No, I wasn't intending that" or "I didn't experience that."

But then I was sitting on a back porch on a beautiful spring afternoon, overlooking vast distances with someone who has been very closed off to charismatic activity. It's actually a very close relative which I've been visiting and slowly watching them unfold for over 4 years.

They were "freaking out"--having an anxiety attack. I asked them to close their eyes. I did so as well. I entered 2nd jhana and EARNESTLY began intending them to experience what I was experiencing (which was utterly beautiful, but not too overwhelming for someone new.) About THIRTY seconds into this meditation, I realized intuitively that it was actually happening. I had no doubts. Naturally, having wanted to express boundless love to this individual for decades--I poured it on.

When we exited, they said to me "Oh my god." as if there breath had been taking away. "I experienced something so beautiful. This has never happened when I tried to meditate in the past." Then they proceeded to describe what I had experienced myself.

This is where something unexpected happened. At the end they said "I....I heard your voice saying you love me." This is NOT something this individual would say unless it really rocked them, and did happen. As with all these other reports, I said "No, I can't say I intended that." because I DIDN'T. Not consciously or specifically. This individual entered the stream that day, and has completely transformed, very much to my astonishment.

Reports of my image or voice or whatever, appearing or being experienced kept coming in from others, but I simply told them the truth that I had not experienced nor consciously intended what they experienced. I would even check my activity tracker and say "No, I was on a walk at that time." Most recently, these reports have been escalating in power of experience. To the point which they caused significantly elevated affinities to form. These were threatening the existing relationships of these stream-enterers companions, so it became time to figure out what the hell was going on.

I realized, finally, that every report which had come in, coincided with moments in which I had also experienced visions, or flashes of a vision of these individuals. It would just be their face, or the sense of their essence--even if I was on a walk or doing dishes. And I realized that whenever this happened, I HAD, in turn, intended them to feel at peace, loved, and fulfilled. I almost always do this when an aspirant pops into consciousness, simply because it feels good, and because it is part of the practice to love all beings.

So the primary obstacle to ruling early onset Omnipresence was, how could I have said or done this to your experience, if I wasn't myself experiencing it? But then I recalled Jhananda telling me that omnipresence while in-body is experienced differently than it is at the higher samadhi. This is consistent with all the other charismas while in-body.

I'm unsure if Jhananda is on retreat or not, but I would appreciate any guidance from senior members who have direct experience with this.

Take care

[Jhanananda]

Yes, most of the people who have arrived at the levels of jhana consistently, and who meditate with others, generally report others whom they meditate with report back to them that their meditations are deeper in their presence.  So, if people who want to meditate deeply simply invited people who do meditate deeply to meditate with them, then they are likely to begin meditating deeply as well.  In this way a whole new religious movement could be started just through the seeds of inspiring one person to meditate deeply, then another, and so on.

We also have to keep in mind that success in deep meditation does not simply require meditating with someone who meditates deeply, but it requires a lifestyle change; which the Noble Eightfold Path describes.  Thus, without the necessary lifestyle change, then there is not likely to be the transformational experience that accompanies the experience of deep meditation.

However, there is also a possible downfall that can happen for people who meditate deeply.  The downfall occurs when the person who meditates to some depth takes themselves far to seriously, and enters into a messiah complex.  To avoid a premature messiah complex one needs to be consistently meditating at the depth of 3-4 jhana, where they acquire sufficient loss of identity not to fall for a premature messiah complex.

Good work Jhanon.  Keep meditating deeply, and keep inspiring others to do so.

[Jhanon]

Yes, most of the people who have arrived at the levels of jhana consistently, and who meditate with others, generally report others whom they meditate with report back to them that their meditations are deeper in their presence.  So, if people who want to meditate deeply simply invited people who do meditate deeply to meditate with them, then they are likely to begin meditating deeply as well.  In this way a whole new religious movement could be started just through the seeds of inspiring one person to meditate deeply, then another, and so on.

We also have to keep in mind that success in deep meditation does not simply require meditating with someone who meditates deeply, but it requires a lifestyle change; which the Noble Eightfold Path describes.  Thus, without the necessary lifestyle change, then there is not likely to be the transformational experience that accompanies the experience of deep meditation.

However, there is also a possible downfall that can happen for people who meditate deeply.  The downfall occurs when the person who meditates to some depth takes themselves far to seriously, and enters into a messiah complex.  To avoid a premature messiah complex one needs to be consistently meditating at the depth of 3-4 jhana, where they acquire sufficient loss of identity not to fall for a premature messiah complex.

Good work Jhanon.  Keep meditating deeply, and keep inspiring others to do so.

This is the core of my concern, Jhananda. I'm doing my best to avoid aspirants seeing me this way, or a similarly dangerous way. I try to funnel them to this forum, but they don't come. If I continue to insist they ask on the forum, they suffer a worse case, which is entering the stream and then ignoring it all together.

Thank you for your response, and time.

[Jhanananda]

This is the core of my concern, Jhananda. I'm doing my best to avoid aspirants seeing me this way, or a similarly dangerous way. I try to funnel them to this forum, but they don't come. If I continue to insist they ask on the forum, they suffer a worse case, which is entering the stream and then ignoring it all together.

Thank you for your response, and time.

People have their free will.  If they are not interested in this forum, or the GWV website, or me, then that is fine.  What turns a lot of people off regarding me is I do a lot of unpacking of religion and philosophy.  I do so, because I know that it is critical for making progress as a mystic. It may take them some time to unpack their own belief systems enough to find that, as a mystic, the GWV is really the only refuge for them at this time.