IQ and deep meditation

[Sam Lim]

Another aspect of geniuses is they generally do not get wealthy, because they generally do not seek wealth.  Instead they are busy doing what interests them, and that is often the acquisition of knowledge.

I have a friend who only had 5 years of education. He doesn't read or write well but he is successful in his chosen field and he has never deviate from it. Others who are much more educated and intelligent does not fare as well. I am currently helping to do all his paperwork for his company. He treats me very well. He loves me. (I love him like a son even though he is my age) He is married with 2 kids all quite grown up now. He is my age. He gives me money every month.

What I meant was that those who thinks that they are intelligent. For that quote, I am trying to convey that a rolling stone gather no moss. One needs diligence, patience among other qualities.

First, the term 'lay' in English just means someone who is not of the priesthood.  Therefore, I am a layperson, even though I have been a monk for more than 15 years now. 

Ler's not split hair. You do understand what I meant.

Thus, I have to disagree on your premise that it is arrogant to say that mystics are more intelligent than lay people.  I could be wrong, because I am just collecting data now, but it is starting to look like mystics might just have a higher IQ.  We just do not know until there is more data.  However, Siddhartha Gautama was no doubt a genius, because the Pali canon clearly shows he used logic and critical thinking to express his teaching.  The Pali canon is the earliest example of logic and critical thinking.  Socrates also used logic and critical thinking to express his philosophy, and he appears to have been a mystic.  And, we have had a few people here post case histories that demonstrate that they are mystics; and they claim to have IQs in the top 1%. Therefore, the evidence is mounting in support of my premise.

It's good that you disagree. So what if we are more intelligent? Is that going to effect how we are going to behave? Does intelligent people makes better choices? With these questions, does it not makes it a bit arrogant? I do understand that you are collecting data for your premise but to what purpose?

I do not know if Socrates is a mystic or not. As far as I know, there are no actual evidence of that. Others might practice critical thinking/logic but that does not prove that they are mystic.


P.S. Usually I don't like to discuss unless I have to. This is just to practice my written English. Please do not misunderstand. I am not trying to question you. I am just trying to understand.

[Jhanananda]

What I meant was that those who thinks that they are intelligent.

Yes, I agree, those who think, or boast, that they are intelligent are often arrogant.  And intelligence does not necessarily lead to humility. 

Oddly, my father, who was supposedly a genius, had a self-effacing quality to him, yet he could not bare the idea that his son had a higher IQ and GPA than he had, so he made a career out of obstructing his son's career.

For that quote, I am trying to convey that a rolling stone gather no moss. One needs diligence, patience among other qualities.

I agree, it takes discipline to become a mystic.  And, not all geniuses are disciplined, nor are they all mystics.

It's good that you disagree. So what if we are more intelligent? Is that going to effect how we are going to behave? Does intelligent people makes better choices? With these questions, does it not makes it a bit arrogant? I do understand that you are collecting data for your premise but to what purpose?

Well, I would find it rather interesting if most mystics were geniuses.

I do not know if Socrates is a mystic or not. As far as I know, there are no actual evidence of that. Others might practice critical thinking/logic but that does not prove that they are mystic.

I found sufficient evidence in the Complete dialogs of Plato to conclude that Socrates was most definitely a mystic.  But, you can decide for yourself by reading the works of Plato.

P.S. Usually I don't like to discuss unless I have to. This is just to practice my written English. Please do not misunderstand. I am not trying to question you. I am just trying to understand.

This forum is for dialog.  Dialog is about coming to an understanding, and not for idle verbal warfare.  I am here to learn as much as anyone else is here.

[Jhanananda]

I found this interesting link on Sam's timeline on FaceBook, which I thought was relevant.  10 Geniuses Who Were Shockingly Horrible People.

[Cal]

IQ is 138, but ive only taken one test, so it may or may not be accurate.

[Jhanananda]

Thanks, Cal, the scale upon which your IQ was measured is important to know for relevance.  In the 60's the scale was 155, now it is 200, which shifts up the IQ measurement.  However, if you do not know the scale that your IQ was measured against, and it was measured in the 60s or 70s, then you know the scale was 155.

[bodhimind]

I felt like this article may contribute to some insight to the link (or maybe not):

http://www.spring.org.uk/2015/08/a-high-iq-may-also-have-this-mental-cost-psychologists-find.php

Bipolarism seems to be associated with intelligence or creativity (correlation though, not causation).

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you, bodhimind, for posting the interesting link. Perhaps the problem for people with high IQs is realizing that they are in a world that is run by morons, as demonstrated by continual wars, corruption, and deficit spending.

[Jhanananda]

A high IQ does not at all mean one is a saint, or a mystic.  5 Famous Historical Figures Who Were Total Perverts.

[Jhanananda]

What Makes a Prodigy?.  The article states, "it is possible that most anyone could be a prodigy, with the right environment."

[Kai Ryu]

Interesting correlation. I have always been a very gifted student. I don't know my IQ, but I recently learned that I was diagnosed as a genius (or whatever label was used back then for a high IQ) as a toddler. Apparently my father dismissed it and said he didn't want to hear about it. Later when I was 10 years old, my teacher called my parents to tell them that he believed I was incredibly gifted and they should do something about it. Again, my father told him he was out of his mind and should forget about it. He only told me this a few weeks ago after I asked, because my aunt had casually mentioned these facts to me by accident believing that I knew about it. I had no idea actually. But it is true that as a teenager, I was very good at everything I did at school, especially in mathematics (although I later chose languages for some reason that made sense to my rebellious teenage self, which I now regret although it allows me to communicate with you at least). At university, I was also a top student and I am now finishing a PhD in linguistics.

The funny thing is that as a child and teenager, I didn't see myself as particularly gifted, but rather as the other kids being lazy. As it took very little work to succeed, I assumed that the kids who didn't pass simply didn't work. Now that i teach, I realise that many many people lack interllectual skills. It's sad really because it is the majority of people by far.

[Jhanananda]

Interesting, Kai Ryu, because my hypothesis is that those who arrive at deep meditation most probably have superior IQs.  I suggest that you take the free MENSA test to see what your IQ is. 

Sadly, if you had know that you have a superior IQ when you first applied to college, you might very well have received a full academic scholarship to the best universities in the world for your IQ plus good grades.  As, I may have as well, but my family, like yours, thought it was better to keep me in the dark regarding my IQ.  Further, with a superior IQ, you are more likely to find a post-doc position somewhere, which will further your career, and you are more likely to get yourself into a tenure track professorship sooner, and at a higher ranked university, than others, if you want it.

I am not sure what the motivation was for your parents to disregard your superior IQ, but I am quite certain the reason why my parents chose to do so for me was to place as many obstacles in the way of my career path that they could, because they clearly did not want me to be successful.

[Cal]

I took the MENSA test and scored very low. My IQ is in the 86th percentile, around 125 on this scale. It makes sense though. In viewing what others write, who are genius level IQ and above, I see a sharpness and flow to their thoughts; much more expansive. I tend to rely more on feeling in viewing patterns and not so much in cognitive recognition. So I found the number patterns took more time on the test. Was interesting to view though how the test was about organizing and connecting the dots.

[Jhanananda]

I would not call an IQ in the 86th percentile, around 125 on their scale, very low, because it is certainly significantly above average.  So, you are working quite well with what you have, and that is all that matters.  So, thank-you for posting your results, because it helps with the case histories.

[Kai Ryu]

I'll try to do it when I have the time and when I am not nearly as exhausted as I am right now (very long day at work). I am not entirely sure, however, that a test made in English would accurately represent my IQ because no matter how good my English is, it will never be as good as my native French language, especially considering I am finishing a PhD in French. If time is an aspect of the test, I'll have to make sure my 10-month-old daughter is sleeping or I am likely to get retard-level results :-D!!

[Cal]

What sort of role might IQ play in the religious experience, Jeff? Is it in the initial recognition or what is religious? Would it be just a commonality? A prerequisite? Discernment?
Is it the free-thinking that seems to be comon among those with a higher IQ?