Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Contemplatives in Recovery => : Cal August 31, 2014, 05:45:31 AM
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In 2007 I was injured at work. Due to circumstances surrounding the events, I continued to work with these injuries, untreated. This compounded my problem. After finally making the decision to seek medical treatment, I was terminated. And so started my addiction to prescription pain medication. (My injuries were herniated discs in my back, 1 @ the neck, the other 2 in the low back. The other was a fractured ankle with a badly torn tendon.)
After 6 months of recovery time of my back injuries, I had worked my way up to a prescription of oxycodone. Employers viewed this as an "illegal drug" due to its schedule 2 classification from the DEA, making employment impossible while continuing to use the drug. The problem was, I was utterly addicted to them...they had absolute control over every choice, every thought, every movement I made. I used my injuries as excuse to the point that it nearly cost me my marriage, our home, and my daughters future. I continued to take them until our savings were exhausted and my wife was ready to leave me. I kept telling myself "I need them." "They make this easy....they make life easy."(The opiod, not my family) During this time, i was able to find Christianity. I have, since i was very young, been one who "thinks too much" and it didnt take long for me to realize how contradictory it was...but the morals therein were invaluable. I was able to stop taking the Opiod and return to work and life went on for awhile.
About a year later, the still not-taken-care of injuries in my ankle really started to make themselves known. This was another excuse, yet it didnt matter, as I was very much a selfish being. I started seeing an orthopedic surgeon, and elected to have surgery. After the surgery I woke and immediately demanded that I have some sort of Narcotic pain medication. I had created a scenario in which I could "get away with" having my drugs. (Not to say that my ankle was not in need of some serious attention, only that I used this as an excuse.) This was the chapter of my life addicted to synthetic heroine, Oxycotin. The drug was so good and terrible, that I had to take an anti-nausea with it. (The surgeon that I had found, was one I knew from friends, that would give me whatever i wanted) So he prescribed me Promethazine for the nausea. I had since then let go of any ties that I had previously made with any kind of religion, and immersed myself into a world of gaming and just not giving a shit about anything but myself. (AGAIN)
I have been riding this roller-coaster of pain meds for 7 years now. It had, over the last year, come to the point that I was no longer being prescribed these drugs. Instead, I had been spending well over $800 monthly to buy my drugs, illegally. Thankfully, i was never given any kind of drug testing, and have been steadily employed. I say thankfully, yet, this is nothing to be thankfull for, I have been dishonest to myself, and my family for a long time. I cannot make it clear enough how instrumental meditative absorption has been in relinquishing the hold these drugs have had on me. I stopped taking a does of Hydrocodone, 10-12 pills per day (10/325's), cold turkey, 13 days ago. The inspiration to love I've gained from meditative absorption is beyond measure and I cannot thank this community enough for the guidance all of you have provided. I write this in hopes that my "open book" will provide a relation in which to progress from.
Sincerely,
Calvin
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These pain meds are fantastic. I'm not sure why everyone isn't addicted to them. But it shows how little people understand their own emotional states, or the demands they deal with every day.
If I admit the pains of my life, then I must seek a remedy. But, here is the problem. Most of the remedies are disappointing. If I have a bad day, I have to wait till the evening to get drunk. And, I have to face the same troubles tomorrow.
In the end, meditative absorption is the only way to do it. The ultimate relief for me came last October, when the mystic death reached its peak. Since that time, I have been pulled out of myself, liberated from myself. Now, I go about my day, and I am able to deal with the challenges and stress. There is no suffering, because there is no one here who can suffer anymore.
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The album Thirteenth Step by A Perfect Circle about drug use
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNdl_vOrPbM&index=1&list=PL1249CC5E5D4E3991
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These pain meds are fantastic. I'm not sure why everyone isn't addicted to them. But it shows how little people understand their own emotional states, or the demands they deal with every day.
If I admit the pains of my life, then I must seek a remedy. But, here is the problem. Most of the remedies are disappointing. If I have a bad day, I have to wait till the evening to get drunk. And, I have to face the same troubles tomorrow.
In the end, meditative absorption is the only way to do it. The ultimate relief for me came last October, when the mystic death reached its peak. Since that time, I have been pulled out of myself, liberated from myself. Now, I go about my day, and I am able to deal with the challenges and stress. There is no suffering, because there is no one here who can suffer anymore.
LOL! I agree, Alexander. Although I can't say there is no one here. There is the smallest shred of someone left, and they are hanging on, it seems, by way of a natural opioid.
Alexander, I'm pretty sure you just described arahantship, no? I know you are of higher attainment than me, although I didn't know it until now.
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I would like to know more about what happened to you in October. I'm getting tired of all the crying and laughing, and I feel like it's just the tiniest little thing to finish the job--but at the same time I know to be humble and always doubt myself.
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Yes, maybe you are right. I told Jeffrey about it, but he didn't seem to know what I was talking about. But my "minute by minute" samadhi is identical to what John of the Cross describes in the DN. It is like an elevation of me out of myself, a state of absolute negation, a perfection of the spiritual consciousness. I want to say that there is no more "I" here, but that is not entirely true. Instead, "I" has been transformed in a dramatic way.
I would also describe it as a state of drunkenness. Certainly it was what I was searching for all along. It is like a shelter from the suffering of life.
But, I am still awaiting the out-of-body experience. You also possess many siddhis that I do not have. :) So I do not think it is black and white.
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I think using negative language is the better way to describe it. So I would rather say there is no I here, rather than I is transformed.
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It is interesting you call it similar to a state of drunkenness, though. So, as I mentioned, I have been using an herbal opioid for quite some time in order to cope with life. But, increasingly and gradually, I can't use it because it makes me nauseous. Even the smallest amount of nicotine makes me feel like shit. I wake up and I feel like I just took a psychedelic, even though it was half a day since I had the smallest of any substances. Nothing is worth it except samadhi, but even samadhi ain't that fantastic. It's just the one with the least amount of unwanted side effects. I'm not really depressed about though. It's just like "Shit. What now?" I went to the park, and just blasted off. I just press the button, and everything becomes movement and light. I don't even close my eyes. The birds, and sky, and breezes are nicer than usual, but temporary. What I'm trying to say is that there isn't any refuge! Nothing, not even food. It all fucks you in the end. I don't mean that in a bad way--I'm just saying. My body feels like it's dying or something. Maybe it is. But why? I don't recall any teaching about the body feeling like death.
Anyway, I don't presume to have the same state as you--but I wanted to share since it was related. It just feels unusual, man. I've done a lot of different drugs in my life--most of which were prescribed; but I've never felt like this. I don't know what to think or do.
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I'm glad you feel you've found what you're looking for. But I didn't note you saying these things until recently. Was there a delay in understanding?
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What is interesting is I attained it not by any meditative technique, but from an eclipse of my contradictions and personal strife. I simply went with it and dropped the resistance. Of course it took time. I embraced my hatred of myself, of the world, of the body; of all the people around me; of my limitations and flaws. Then it was the friction of my many lies and falsehoods, and the acting I do for all the people around me -- and then I had a violent victory, my essential goodness just pulled me out of myself.
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Also, I am not sure who Ansala is, however you may not get my response since I'm not sure the email to forum to email works.
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It is interesting you call it similar to a state of drunkenness, though. So, as I mentioned, I have been using an herbal opioid for quite some time in order to cope with life. But, increasingly and gradually, I can't use it because it makes me nauseous. Even the smallest amount of nicotine makes me feel like shit. I wake up and I feel like I just took a psychedelic, even though it was half a day since I had the smallest of any substances. Nothing is worth it except samadhi, but even samadhi ain't that fantastic. It's just the one with the least amount of unwanted side effects.
Oh, I recognize this. Puked my organs out while on the Oxycotin, even after being prescribed the anti nausea medication. It was even the same effect with nicotine. The whole experience I had intense feelings of being trapped. It was not easy to overcome.
I'm going to be honest, I used no "method" or "replacement" to overcome, only sheer willpower. I might add, that there have been "breaks" in my struggle with addiction. The oxycotin was replaced with nothing, then nothing was replaced with another form of opiate, etc.
Meditation...no not meditation. Jhana, samahdi, the "knowing" of something more, is at this time, enough to drop them. I feel a pull, ever so slightly, that worldly things do not matter. It get stronger with every passing day.
I also said in another post, that my ego is a bastard. It, "I", have a need to be in control, to be right. I've tapped it and am using its momentum as well.
Love and Identity also play a role. "What sort of man lives a lie?" "How can you look into the eyes of your children, and tell them what is best for them? When you seek escape, and self comfort." I have been contemplating things like this, and I confront them honestly.
So maybe it isnt accurate to say that I don't use a method. The method I am using now is absorption, contemplation of the spiritual, critical inward thinking, and willpower.
I am in physical pain always, intense pain. Some of that goes away other parts get easier, but I am in a very uncomfortable physical state, right now. The only time that I am not, is around the third Jhana-it is intensly blissful, but i think the pain is still there.
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I'm glad you feel you've found what you're looking for. But I didn't note you saying these things until recently. Was there a delay in understanding?
I have made several references to this state before. I had some idea of what was going on when it was happening. I think in the beginning there was a definite element of fantasy I had, but when the new consciousness stayed and didn't go away I realized I had attained something big.
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Alexander, you said "of course is takes time", by this you mean it was subtle? Each day, or each moment of change would manifest as a "difference" and the choice made would be known. But the choice made was not something that you made, it was accepted. And when it was accepted, it was relinquished. All without a choice ever being made.
This is what I've started to experience, and I described it as "pulling slightly" as im a dumb ass, and dont know your guys' fancy words. xD
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Actually, when it began it was extremely painful. And there was no hope in sight. Even though I had read John of the Cross, without direct experience of the state I am in now, I never would have thought it existed. I also would not have thought it was accessed in the way I accessed it. But, now it all makes sense to me. I understand especially why asceticism, celibacy, austerity, loneliness, hardness, severity, and so on are all critical to the spiritual life. Because only by embracing these things can you be pulled out of the world of the body/matter and into the world of the spirit. "The kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force" says Christ. I am sorry if I am being overly complex. I want to explain it as best I can.
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I cannot make it clear enough how instrumental meditative absorption has been in relinquishing the hold these drugs have had on me. I stopped taking a does of Hydrocodone, 10-12 pills per day (10/325's), cold turkey, 13 days ago. The inspiration to love I've gained from meditative absorption is beyond measure and I cannot thank this community enough for the guidance all of you have provided. I write this in hopes that my "open book" will provide a relation in which to progress from.
Sincerely,
Calvin
Yes, Cal, I too had addictions at one time, and it was the cultivation of the religious experience, which we call "jhana" here that completely eradicated my addictions, so I am not at all surprised that it is working for you as well. I expect it will work for anyone.
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I wish to post my agreement. I am currently weening off of one, quite naturally, because it makes me sick now. I appear to have become more aware in general, and things like eating a little bit of ice cream give me strong pain, where before it was only mild discomfort.
Through a series of "coincidences" that were extremely accommodating, I ended up taking a small break from my regimen altogether. It was easiest because I was "teaching" others about the Path, which required me to tap into intuitive insight on a constant basis. Also, an energy connection with Cal.
1) The charisms are far more pleasant and rewarding, both in relation to opioids, and off the opioids.
2) Kundalini
3) Kundalini
4) Kundalini
5) God/Whatever you want to call that awesome "special something."
The trick, it seems, is going to the charisms for refuge. This includes intuitive insight, or "intuition." One must reside there like your wellbeing relied on it--not the opioid. That's easier said than done. Easier thought of than done. But when it's done, it works. One must even leave the intellectualizing alone, like I should be as I type this.
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The trick, it seems, is going to the charisms for refuge. This includes intuitive insight, or "intuition." One must reside there like your wellbeing relied on it--not the opioid. That's easier said than done. Easier thought of than done. But when it's done, it works. One must even leave the intellectualizing alone, like I should be as I type this.
I have found this to be true, and it led to no addictions whatsoever, so it should work for you, and anyone else, who has found genuine charisms.
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What is interesting is I attained it not by any meditative technique, but from an eclipse of my contradictions and personal strife. I simply went with it and dropped the resistance. Of course it took time. I embraced my hatred of myself, of the world, of the body; of all the people around me; of my limitations and flaws. Then it was the friction of my many lies and falsehoods, and the acting I do for all the people around me -- and then I had a violent victory, my essential goodness just pulled me out of myself.
This is utterly incredible, Alexander. This is very profound insight; it's very valuable to me. I am going to incorporate these ideas into my daily contemplations. It's a complete and utter surrender, isn't it? I hope you write much more about this in your future posts. I'm very happy for you. Thank-you for sharing this with us.
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What is interesting is I attained it not by any meditative technique, but from an eclipse of my contradictions and personal strife. I simply went with it and dropped the resistance. Of course it took time. I embraced my hatred of myself, of the world, of the body; of all the people around me; of my limitations and flaws. Then it was the friction of my many lies and falsehoods, and the acting I do for all the people around me -- and then I had a violent victory, my essential goodness just pulled me out of myself.
This is utterly incredible, Alexander. This is very profound insight; it's very valuable to me. I am going to incorporate these ideas into my daily contemplations. It's a complete and utter surrender, isn't it? I hope you write much more about this in your future posts. I'm very happy for you. Thank-you for sharing this with us.
Michel, you're not addressing me, but I hope you're okay with me responding as if you were.
Since becoming very sensitive to this other charism, which we could call vivid pre-verbal intuition, if ya like, I have found that yes, it is a complete and utter surrender. Have I succcessfully done so? Not fully, and only in limited time periods--like 6 or 7 hours for example. "I" did this as an experiment to create a distinction between surrendering and not surrendering.
But, I have absolutely no doubt that one must completely surrender TO THE CHARISMS. It is very important, again in my experience, to develop a RELATIONSHIP with them. That might sound weird, and I hope I don't give the wrong impression, but once that begins, and the further it develops, the faster and easier it is to retreat to them--thus letting go of all self-will. I believe this was the INTENTION behind saying one goes to "The Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha for refuge." Because when I did what that means to me, magical things happened.
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we could call vivid pre-verbal intuition, if ya like, I have found that yes, it is a complete and utter surrender. Have I succcessfully done so? Not fully, and only in limited time periods--like 6 or 7 hours for example. "I" did this as an experiment to create a distinction between surrendering and not surrendering.
Hopefully it will become a permanent state for you, Jhanon.
But, I have absolutely no doubt that one must completely surrender TO THE CHARISMS. It is very important, again in my experience, to develop a RELATIONSHIP with them. That might sound weird, and I hope I don't give the wrong impression, but once that begins, and the further it develops, the faster and easier it is to retreat to them--thus letting go of all self-will. I believe this was the INTENTION behind saying one goes to "The Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha for refuge." Because when I did what that means to me, magical things happened.
I think you've mentioned elsewhere that you feel deep gratitude for experiencing the divine/charisms. That's the relationship.
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we could call vivid pre-verbal intuition, if ya like, I have found that yes, it is a complete and utter surrender. Have I succcessfully done so? Not fully, and only in limited time periods--like 6 or 7 hours for example. "I" did this as an experiment to create a distinction between surrendering and not surrendering.
Hopefully it will become a permanent state for you, Jhananda.
But, I have absolutely no doubt that one must completely surrender TO THE CHARISMS. It is very important, again in my experience, to develop a RELATIONSHIP with them. That might sound weird, and I hope I don't give the wrong impression, but once that begins, and the further it develops, the faster and easier it is to retreat to them--thus letting go of all self-will. I believe this was the INTENTION behind saying one goes to "The Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha for refuge." Because when I did what that means to me, magical things happened.
I think you've mentioned elsewhere that you feel deep gratitude for experiencing the divine/charisms. That's the relationship.
Yes! Exactly! I couldn't develop the gratitude without the relationship. I arrogantly thought in the past I was "above that" because I was intelligent. But, finally i surrendered to the idea, and yes--it had to be viewed as a relationship. Since doing so, you can see how it has affected even my sleep. The aim now is to keep the state going by continuing to seek refuge in this relationship, and thus transcend the desires/fetters/identity.
There is an element of imagination to it, too. For example, when I walk through somewhere with other humans, I place my awareness into both the external and internal tactile charism. Meaning, the aura/cloak and the inner-presence. At first I would imagine my aura extending many feet outward, and washing over others as I walked past. I would wish them well as I did so. Soon, however, i actually began to feel them. I feel the vibrant presence in the air, and when they pass through it. It's too rapid to be imagined.
Thank you for your kindness. I hope your retreat went well and revealed what you were looking for.
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How strange. This popped up in my "New Replies to your Posts" section, even though there is nothing new here. Why is it strange? I was just about to come to this thread and post...
I've decided to stop being ashamed of the medicines I take. Firstly, none of them are illegal or very strong (compared to other drugs.) Secondly, the shame, a form of ignorance, perpetuates the medication use.
The last two months have been very difficult for me, until the last few days. I realized that the moments I had which recharged me, which fulfilled me, which felt the best--always occurred when there was the least amount of medications in my system. I kept using more because I was struggling, but this is the opposite of the path to resolution.
I experienced a beautiful jhana last night. It lasted for about 3 hours, which was two hours longer than the one I had in the morning. After I left it, I had very little medicine in my system. I began experiencing a sense of humor, and accelerated mental processing--both of which were fulfilling. I was able to remain saturated in a very strong field of tactile energy and visual luminosity on par with 3rd or 4th jhana. Everything I did while saturated in this--it made sense on a deeper level. I saw into things I was experiencing. It was insight like I remember from other deep meditations. The mind would contemplate something, and extrapolate it. Numerous scientific "laws" were destroyed, and yet I couldn't put the insight into writing. Gravity, "matter", the material and immaterial, how energy functions, and how human life is many times removed from the truer expression of "life." Hard to explain with words, but very fulfilling to experience.
Point: Less is more. I've got a two-decade old identity fighting to keep the medications/drugs. But, in these moments when the divine overcomes that identity, I experience flashes of forgotten memory of a time before I was first forced into drugs. Apparently I was experiencing quite a bit of OOBE and jhana before then. i think this is good news. To see this life reconciling.
Lastly, the fear is subsiding. The less medications + the more saturation = reduction of fear. It appears that this youngest identity strongly wants annihilation, and its fear is significantly less than the present identity. As the meditation went deeper, and the medications left the system, I experienced a stronger and stronger attraction to being annihilated. When surges of energy occurred, each time I felt a distinct attraction. It grew with every deepening wave. I can't stress how refreshing this is.
It's like standing on the shore, seeing an extraordinary wave of brilliance towering overhead. And instead of looking for escape, being fascinated and eager.
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Congratulations, Jhanon, you are moving toward recovery, and you can see how cultivating the religious experience (samadhi) reduces our dependency upon drugs. Keep going, and keep us posted regarding your progress.
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Congratulations, Jhanon, you are moving toward recovery, and you can see how cultivating the religious experience (samadhi) reduces our dependency upon drugs. Keep going, and keep us posted regarding your progress.
Thank you. I fear this is a long process for the likes of me. I've been trying to get off medications, whether self or assigned, for a very long time. I think what I can do best is just keep observing the benefits of reducing, and logging them somewhere. That's what I did with meditation until one day I experienced a big breakthrough. Or, rather, I noticed.
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I've decided to just keep everything out in the open from now on...
Lately, something interesting has been happening. A few years ago, a small amount of substance used would get me through 6-7 hours of a day before I began feeling the unsatisfactoriness of human life. It was crushing, and it was all I could do at such points to find a tree to sit under which was as far from human establishment as I could manage. And I would just sob. Maybe I could enter jhana, but I would still have tears running down my face. I can't stand this plane in such circumstances.
When I went to bed, I would take two-three times the regular dose. This would allow me 12-18 hours before the same would occur. But presently, such a dose barely affords me 6 hours of reprieve. And, fortunately, the substance I take cannot be increased any further without considerable deficit. So I wake up feeling as I used to. Expressions of painful wisdom start flowing out. No commoner wants to hear such things. But I've found it's not because I'm bitter. It really is verifiably true. Here is an example of such outpourings:
"If you have to be continuously stoned, drunk, or otherwise medicated by pills, substances or media to do something; I have some difficult news for you. You really don't wanna do that something. And if that something is just life--well, you know the answer already. Which isn't to say drink the kool-aid. That's just moronic. But maybe leave modern society behind and go find the one interweaving string that makes you happy. Afterall, most artists don't get along with society. Most artists are drug users. And the best art comes from when they are sober. And good art is always anti-institution."
Other outpourings have to do with my severe longing for natural silence, smells, tastes, sights, and feelings. I miss waking up to the sounds of birds, chipmunks and wind in the trees. Walking outside and seeing nothing but nature. Looking up to the sky and seeing stars. All the stars. I miss the warmth of the south-west.
In the summers, I go for long walks. I come across a plant in season, close my eyes and smell it's fragrance. And for a moment, I'm not in the city. I'm in the wilderness. Such a simple thing can keep me going for an entire day afterward. All other "seasons" are dead of life here.
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Hello, Jhanon, it is good to see some honesty in your posts, as I knew all along that you had some addictive behavior influencing your current behavior. So, good work, and keep going. Until you are free of addiction, then you are not a genuine mystic. When you are free of addiction, then you will be a valuable teacher for the dhamma.
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Welcome back, Jhanon. I missed reading your posts.
I hope you manage to get off your meds without too much difficulty.
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Hello, Jhanon, it is good to see some honesty in your posts, as I knew all along that you had some addictive behavior influencing your current behavior. So, good work, and keep going. Until you are free of addiction, then you are not a genuine mystic. When you are free of addiction, then you will be a valuable teacher for the dhamma.
I can see the path to overcoming this. But it is a delicate one, if I am to keep my family and provide for them while maintaining sobriety. Some very unusual fortune has come my way, and might offer the next step. Essentially, I will be paid to discuss jhana, my experiences with it, and how it's transforming lives. And when I am discussing these things or meditating is the only time I feel free of my addictions.
Welcome back, Jhanon. I missed reading your posts.
I hope you manage to get off your meds without too much difficulty.
Thank you, Michel. If all goes well, I'll be providing much more content, soon.
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I can see the path to overcoming this. But it is a delicate one, if I am to keep my family and provide for them while maintaining sobriety. Some very unusual fortune has come my way, and might offer the next step. Essentially, I will be paid to discuss jhana, my experiences with it, and how it's transforming lives. And when I am discussing these things or meditating is the only time I feel free of my addictions.
Perhaps you can find an income sufficient to provide for you family through guiding people through the necessary stages of contemplative sobriety. Also, I truly hope, and aspire to, you and Michel working out a path to recovery from psychiatric medication.
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Also, I truly hope, and aspire to, you and Michel working out a path to recovery from psychiatric medication.
Thank-you, Jhananda, for your encouragement.
Well, I'm not on an opioid. I have read that opioids are easier to withdraw from than antipsychotics.
For the last six weeks I have reduced my antipsychotic medication by 25% with no side effects. At some point at lower doses the side effects begin to manifest. I was considering lowering the dose even further without telling the family or the psychiatrist. I realized that this would be dishonest of me and would violate the 4th precept. So, two days ago I went back to the full dose since I want both parties to be OK with my lowering or stopping the meds. So far I haven't been able to convince either of them. The doctor practices pure psychopharmacology, and the family thinks he's an expert on mental illness, and that drug therapy is the only way to go. Well, I don't agree with either of them. I'm trying to convince everyone that I need an alternate approach. But I don't know who to turn to.
Withdrawal from the antipsychotic medication I'm on, which I've taken for the last 4 years, is dangerous - and at my age it could kill me since it is very hard on the body and my health is fragile. You need a supportive environment with family, doctors, etc. I went through a severe withdrawal from a high dose of benzodiazepines 14 years ago and I came close to death. I had no support from anyone. I ended up going full blown manic and ended up in the hospital, having been brought there by the cops. That saved me from the withdrawal. The mania completely burned away the withdrawal symptoms. The doctors call the antipsychotic I'm on a "super-benzodiazepine." Furthermore, I'm also taking a mood stabilizer. It's an anti-seizure type of drug. Withdrawal from it is also very difficult.
I'm in a very difficult situation. My spiritual development is also an issue. The meds could be impeding my progress. Now that's a theory some of us have. Technically I'm violating the 5th precept which is abstaining from intoxicants or mood altering substances.
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Hello Michel, I understand your dilemma; however, after working with mystics for decades it is clear to me that the antipsychotics definitely interfere with mastering deep meditation. SO, I am not sure how you can work it out, but if you can, then I am certain you will be aided in the process.
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I can see the path to overcoming this. But it is a delicate one, if I am to keep my family and provide for them while maintaining sobriety. Some very unusual fortune has come my way, and might offer the next step. Essentially, I will be paid to discuss jhana, my experiences with it, and how it's transforming lives. And when I am discussing these things or meditating is the only time I feel free of my addictions.
Perhaps you can find an income sufficient to provide for you family through guiding people through the necessary stages of contemplative sobriety. Also, I truly hope, and aspire to, you and Michel working out a path to recovery from psychiatric medication.
An opportunity is developing. It is very promising. The conscience is at peace with it.
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Hello Michel, I understand your dilemma; however, after working with mystics for decades it is clear to me that the antipsychotics definitely interfere with mastering deep meditation. SO, I am not sure how you can work it out, but if you can, then I am certain you will be aided in the process.
I agree, Michel. On both our accounts. As you are aware, I am intimately aware of what you are going through. Zyprex and Lamictal appear to be what you're on. Lamictal limits the range of dopamine, and Zyprexa limits seratonin. You are not exaggerating. These drugs are far more difficult to withdraw from. However, I found the choice to come off them was far easier. The difference being the process of withdrawal from opioids is a little easier, while the pharmaceuticals are easier to decide to quit.
But, Michel, I agree with Jhananda. With all the magic, and coincidences I've witnessed--if you're heart is set on this, and you do everything within your power (and the N8P) to accomplish it--you will be aided. I've found the trick is listening to the conscience, which suggests new, scary, challenging ways to approach the goal. Since it's the conscience, these suggestions from it are within the N8P. It takes courage, and faith, but I am always supported by the benevolence with no name.
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Hello Michel, I understand your dilemma; however, after working with mystics for decades it is clear to me that the antipsychotics definitely interfere with mastering deep meditation. SO, I am not sure how you can work it out, but if you can, then I am certain you will be aided in the process.
I have to prove to everybody that there is an alternate therapy. Of course we know what that is here: the N8P. But try to convince them. That is highly unlikely, I believe.
If I were to withdraw from the meds without telling anyone, then when the withdrawal kicks everybody knows, and - the family and the doctor wouldn't trust me anymore. I'm against this idea of having to lie. I take the precepts very seriously. So, I need to look at other possibilities.
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I agree, Michel. On both our accounts. As you are aware, I am intimately aware of what you are going through. Zyprex and Lamictal appear to be what you're on. Lamictal limits the range of dopamine, and Zyprexa limits seratonin. You are not exaggerating. These drugs are far more difficult to withdraw from. However, I found the choice to come off them was far easier. The difference being the process of withdrawal from opioids is a little easier, while the pharmaceuticals are easier to decide to quit.
Yes, these are the two meds I'm taking. How long had you been taking these meds? Months or years? If so, how did you manage to withdraw from them.
Thank-you, Jhanon, for your kind words of encouragement.
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I agree, Michel. On both our accounts. As you are aware, I am intimately aware of what you are going through. Zyprex and Lamictal appear to be what you're on. Lamictal limits the range of dopamine, and Zyprexa limits seratonin. You are not exaggerating. These drugs are far more difficult to withdraw from. However, I found the choice to come off them was far easier. The difference being the process of withdrawal from opioids is a little easier, while the pharmaceuticals are easier to decide to quit.
Yes, these are the two meds I'm taking. How long had you been taking these meds? Months or years? If so, how did you manage to withdraw from them.
Thank-you, Jhanon, for your kind words of encouragement.
Thankfully, I quit these drugs within 1 year of beginning them. They made me feel like a robot, like I wasn't alive. Nothing was enjoyable. All the magic of life was gone, even though I barely was aware of the magic.
At this time psychedelic mushrooms began to enter my life through no effort of my own. I began to research the healing powers of psychedelics, and tried them on two separate attempts without any effects. I was told and then verified that those medications were canceling out the effects of the psychedelics entirely.
So, I took a risk and quit them in favor of the psychedelics. That is a level of risk I had never taken before. I was used to letting doctors tell me what to do.
I used mostly marijuana and video games for the first week or two of withdrawal, and didn't notice much withdrawal because I was so unaware and naive. But in retrospect, I was couch/bed-ridden continuously. After a few weeks, I began meeting truly noble, authentic and loving humans I didn't even knew existed. They also used marijuana.
Through these people, I came into contact with many "mentor"-like individuals. I would smoke marijuana with them, and with the increased receptivity it afforded me, these people would teach me like the father I never had. i had a series of profound mystical experiences that changed my life forever. I've never told of these experiences on here out of respect for Jhananda's view on these substances, but the emotional and spiritual release was profound.
One, where a stranger compassionately taught me to deny myself the use of excuses so as to change my life, I remember getting in the car to leave and filled with shattering ecstasy--so much so that I was clinching the armrest, sobbing, and in the super strong version of kundalini energy blast. That was perhaps my first experience of transcendental insight, and I was hooked. That was also when I realized there was hope in the psychedelic compounds like marijuana, and the others.
When the withdrawals were greatest--I then knew the medications would not impact a psychedelic experience because they had mostly left my system. I began taking psychedelics which were freely offered to me. And these noble friends would provide every therapeutic set and setting I needed to endure the initial fear of using such a powerful substance. i ended up watching Lord of the Rings, and my girl---friend held me tightly the whole time. This afforded me additional experiences of kundalini bliss, insight and release, resulting in the happiest and free-est I had ever been in my life. From that point on, I was so ecstatic, even when on no substances, that the withdrawals weren't even there.
Jhananda will most likely not appreciate this, but I insist on being honest. Do I recommend the path I took? No. But can you see how I was aided? Absolutely. And that is the point.
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I have to prove to everybody that there is an alternate therapy. Of course we know what that is here: the N8P. But try to convince them. That is highly unlikely, I believe.
If I were to withdraw from the meds without telling anyone, then when the withdrawal kicks everybody knows, and - the family and the doctor wouldn't trust me anymore. I'm against this idea of having to lie. I take the precepts very seriously. So, I need to look at other possibilities.
I find not lying is a good thing. On the other hand, if everyone in my world wants to drug me, then what do I do? My choice when my family had spent my entire life telling everyone I was both retarded and insane, was just to leave and never speak to them again. Of course it meant I had no financial help from them, and I was written out of the will, but I gained my sanity. So, you choose what works best for your life.
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I have to prove to everybody that there is an alternate therapy. Of course we know what that is here: the N8P. But try to convince them. That is highly unlikely, I believe.
If I were to withdraw from the meds without telling anyone, then when the withdrawal kicks everybody knows, and - the family and the doctor wouldn't trust me anymore. I'm against this idea of having to lie. I take the precepts very seriously. So, I need to look at other possibilities.
I find not lying is a good thing. On the other hand, if everyone in my world wants to drug me, then what do I do? My choice when my family had spent my entire life telling everyone I was both retarded and insane, was just to leave and never speak to them again. Of course it meant I had no financial help from them, and I was written out of the will, but I gained my sanity. So, you choose what works best for your life.
In my case, and I'm not sure, but I think if I were to leave the family then the doctor would appoint the province as my legal guardian with full power of attorney over me. Maybe it's a case of better the devil you know than the one you don't.
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In my case, and I'm not sure, but I think if I were to leave the family then the doctor would appoint the province as my legal guardian with full power of attorney over me. Maybe it's a case of better the devil you know than the one you don't.
Yes, it sounds like you are caught between a rock and a hard place. In my case it was easy. My family threw me out like the trash on my graduation day from high school. So, I just walked away and created a life without them, which was a contemplative life.
However, you are not alone with this problem. I keep thinking that there is a way to solve this problem, and that the spiritual community is the solution; however, most spiritual communities are invested in someone's ego, who is definitely not enlightened; and if he or she finds someone in his/her community who is genuinely enlightened, then that person will be routed out.
Do you think that your family would allow you to join a spiritual community? I expect that it would have to be very mainstream, like a Catholic monastery. If so, then perhaps the spiritual community would be willing to look after you until you die, and allow you to withdraw from the psychiatric meds that you are on; however, if you go through withdrawal, then I would like you to work with a physician who is interested in helping you withdraw from your psychiatric meds; and that you two come up with a plan that does not undermine your health and safety.
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I don't know what to say, Jhananda. It's seems like an impossible situation. But thanks for your suggestions.
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It's probably not considered my business, but I think Jhananda's suggestion is worth contemplating lightly over the coming weeks. If I was in your situation, to the extent which I have been informed of it, what he suggested is almost exactly what I would be trying to do. I even watched a film recently which had some kind of Christian mystic in it who was a monk or something in a place I had never heard of. It might be an excellent opportunity.
And yes, he was a mystic. You don't say the things he said in the way he said them unless you have experienced the mystical states many times.
I just wanna see you free, friend--like I do everyone else. I often feel like we all live in our own version of impossible life situation, until enlightenment.
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I suppose there maybe some Roman Catholic clergy or monastics that may be advanced spiritually. I've come across those who probably were not. l went to Catholic schools from kindergarten to senior high school and meet all kinds of priests and nuns. But true Catholic mystics are hard to find no doubt and why would they invest in someone like me who leans towards Buddhism and doesn't believe Roman Catholicism to be a vehicle to liberation?
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Good point. The individual I'm referring to was a mystic, though. And he said that despite him being part of whatever non-Buddhist clergy he was, that it is unmistakable after repeat mystical experiences that all ancient spiritual teachings are talking about the same thing, only in different ways so as to help the myriad of conditioned individuals.
I think that, for example, Christian mysticism is for those who respond to imagery and overtly covert messages. While the Buddhist mystic thrives on specific, holistic, and extensive intellectual reasoning proving the teaching.
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You know, not even in my prime as a youth did I wake up and my physical body felt remotely good.
Stupid human realm!
This is my way of coping with leaving experiences far better than this when I "wake up" in the morning.
They shouldn't even call it that. They should call it "wake down." How do you older guys deal with all the pain and discomfort of morning!?
I suppose you could say "meditation", but if I do that when I first wake up, I'll just fall back asleep or go OOBE. And then my responsibilities go down the drain, and I'm scolded. There's no winning man!
I'm posting this here because it's a significant part of the reason I'm on a mild opioid. Or at least gobbling tylenol (within reason.)
I think the only good part about waking up with no recent opioids in my system is that the mind and heart are more sensitive.
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Well, we old guy get used to pain being our every moment companion; however, pain was not my waking experience for decades, and it is not now my every moment companion, nor my waking experience . It sounds like to me you have an underlying inflammation that you need to address, so that you are no longer dependent upon tylenol, or an Opioid. Do check out the thread: Anthocyanin, a natural anti-inflammatory (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,707.0.html). Also, you might benefit from sleeping inside of a ground Faraday cage.
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Well, we old guy get used to pain being our every moment companion; however, pain was not my waking experience for decades, and it is not now my every moment companion, nor my waking experience . It sounds like to me you have an underlying inflammation that you need to address, so that you are no longer dependent upon tylenol, or an Opioid. Do check out the thread: Anthocyanin, a natural anti-inflammatory (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,707.0.html). Also, you might benefit from sleeping inside of a ground Faraday cage.
I think it might be mental pain. I'll try to read through the anchocyanin thread again.
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Last week I had one of the most fulfilling and satisfying strings of days in a long time. I very carefully recorded everything which appeared to provide this inspired, ecstatic state. Only to discover what I've discovered so many times already...
IT'S THE DRUGS, THE MEDICATIONS, THAT RUIN EVERYTHING. I can't explain how I can be so certain, because the medications are blocking that insight right now. So, if you're reading this, you'll just have to take me at my word.
I can't wait for them to run out. So I can feel, sense, experience, know. I hope in the next couple hours I will be free enough to feel more of what is at present just a spark of what huge presence has always been there. But, at least I can still feel the spark.
Yes, everyone has their own path--and it's all a process. But, I'm ready for this part of it to come to an end. God, the intellect is so boring, so gray, so flat, so bland.Who wants to hang out with a paranoid computer? I don't.
It's the conscience. That's the most generous and top-notch drug-dealer around.
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Specifically, it's the man-made drugs that are worst of all. There are plants who have evolved with humans over a much longer period of time than that of a scientist. So, it should be obvious that if some kind of substance is needed--if at all possible, it should be natural.
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Hello, Jhanon, I propose that your first book be "Beyond the Power of Now." Your next book be, "Beyond drugs, recovery from psychiatric medications." What do you think?
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Hello, Jhanon, I propose that your first book be "Beyond the Power of Now." Your next book be, "Beyond drugs, recovery from psychiatric medications." What do you think?
Jhananda, I had actually experienced the same title very recently. But not the second one. And I wonder if maybe you've been peaking at the book content I've kept mostly to myself. Because your second title proposal accounts for the second category of material amassing from inspiration most recently.
I will do my best not to forget what you've said, because I feel there is a deeper significance I don't see yet.
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Good work.