Author Topic: Jhanon's Blog  (Read 53219 times)

Jhanananda

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 01:58:13 PM »
On that subject, I wonder if the strength of tactile charisms diminishes when one is sexually active. From what I understand, sexual energy is closely related (or the same thing) as the tacticle energy charism present in meditation. So if that energy is expelled through sexual activity, it seems reasonable that it might impact the available energy or strength of presence of charisms in the body. For example, from what I can remember of the last retreat that went well, I was celibate. I had charisms with me all day, helping me stay energized, happy, and able to reach jhana quickly. But I have not been celibate recently, and it coincides with a drop in strength of charisms.

I just completed a 2 hour meditation in which I am certain this time I meditated well, but charisms were hardly present. Although i did try to just be happy with what I got.

Everyone will have to experiment here.  I find celibacy is more a skilful means, because, if we are occupied in relationship, then we have little time for deep mediation.  On the other hand, some of the major mystics were married, such as: Mohammed, Kabir, and Rumi.

On the other hand, it has been my experience, and my case histories support this, that when one meditates to the depth of the 4th jhana on a consistent basis, they lose interest in sex, because the religious experience at that depth is far more fulfilling than any sexual, or drug-induced, experience.  This means the 4the fetter, erotic craving (kama-raga) has also been overcome.

That's not what this one does. It boosts mental functions, in the same way a quality diet also has for me. It isn't in any class of substances I have ever tried before. There is no "high". It is one of the mildest prescribed for those with ADHD. While I think it is wise to wipe away as many variables such as substances, I also acknowledge that I have diagnosis that substances have helped with in the past. Some people need treatment for pain, others need treatment for mental difficulty. I think the goal is to find the most effective with the least negative drawbacks, and the ultimate goal is to be free of as many material crutches as possible. While this new substance is certainly useful, I've addressed my new hypothesis for the change in meditative experience above.

I accept there will be ups and downs in meditation, but this recent "down" seems suspicious. Suspicious in that I think there is something I can do about it. And there are some other aspects of my meditation that seem suspiciously "off". I can't say with confidence that in absorption (other than experiences when not purposefully meditating) I have ever experienced any kind of joy or "glee" as someone else on here put it. This is despite my efforts to "take joy in the experience", "appreciate" or cultivate the brahma viharas during meditation. This is one of those "off" things that I am working on. I also think there is some reason the charisms have suddenly dropped, despite not much change in my practice. I feel as though I would be straying from the path if I discounted improvement/education opportunities such as these--especially if the goal is joy, bliss, ecstasy, and enlightenment.

All that said, I admit that as far as I can tell, I am a relative beginner. I could be completely wrong on all of this, and most likely at least somewhat incorrect.

Good arguments.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 08:02:43 PM by Jhanananda »
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Jhanananda

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 02:46:08 PM »
Meditated about 7 hours total yesterday. The best results occurred during a 3-hour midnight session. The tactile charisms were strong, and each jhana developed slowly and fully. Upon reaching 3rd jhana, I actually found it's charisms to be too strong. It's subtle unsatisfactoriness eventually propelled me toward urgently looking for entrance to fourth jhana. Eventually I remembered to develop equanimity and let go further until I entered the 4th jhana. These slow-developing jhanas really gave me time to appreciate and analyze their primary qualities as described in the suttas.

Shortly after entering the 4th jhana, the same unsatisfactoriness of the last three jhanas, although even more subtle, surfaced. I was a bit surprised to be clearly observing unsatisfactoriness within even the 4th jhana. I suppose in the back of the mind I always assumed I would have a long honeymoon period with the first 4 jhanas until finally beginning to detect their subtle unsatisfactoriness. But, with the exception of the first days of consistent jhana which included a 5th samadhi experience, I have consistently found some subtle unsatisfactoriness.

A key characteristic of the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi) is each stage is so fulfilling that we feel as if we could spend the rest of our life there, and by so fully submitting to that religious experience, and savoring it, like a rare and delicious food, that we find the next stage.  So, instead of being anxious, or craving, for depth, then overcome the Craving for immaterial or formless existence/experience (arupa-raga), and accept each stage of the religious experience on its own terms, as one leads to the next.  Nonetheless, all mystic pursue depth to complete annihilation, and are ultimately unsatisfied until they are completely "slain in the spirit."

I'm beginning to wonder if those with ADHD often have had some considerable spiritual attainment in past lives. I continue to feel a strong intuition that I have. Looking back on my youth, I have a hard time not being fairly certain I was in the dark night of the sense even at the age of 7, as that is as far back as I can remember. I at least know that I was having deep contemplative thoughts, confusion about the behavior of humans around me, ecstatic energy, and hypersensitivity to all phenomena. I and my mother even recall my hiding behind rocking chairs when they watched children's movies, and crying when the radio was turned on. Wow, what hell to be in a highly dysfunctional and abusive family while in the dark night.

I mention this because it seems I am never satisfied with any phenomena, almost all of the charismatic and definitely all of the mundane. I certainly appreciate charismatic and mundane phenomena, but I always strongly sense a longing for Home and/or the removal of this unsatisfactoriness. The only time I can ever recall not feeling any dissatisfaction is during super-strong blasts of kundalini. My dissatisfaction with everything else is driving me to push beyond my fear of it's profundity.

To me it is a given that anyone who finds the genuine religious experience through leading a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life, most probably was a mystic, at one level or another, in a previous lifetime; and has come here to finish the journey, or be part of a genuine religious revival movement and community, like that which comes from the work of a genuine mystic.

Because of this, last night I spent much time in 4th jhana attempting to gain intuitive knowledge into the nature of kundalini. Specifically, I wanted to learn to activate its presence whenever I needed it. I remember reading that in the 4th jhana it is possible to direct the mind toward insights like this. While it's possible this was commentary garbage, I seem to recall reading it in a sutta. "While in 4th jhana, the Buddha directed the mind toward knowledge of the arising and passing away of beings..etc..discernment was born, knowledge gained" something to that effect. Unfortunately, no such knowledge was gained.

In my experience insight is most certainly the product of the religious experience (samadhi); however, in my experience it most often comes spontaneously.  I just let go to the process of the religious experience (samadhi) and let whatever happens happen.

I haven't pinned down why the charisms were so weak throughout the last few days, but I certainly re-affirmed how big an impact evening has. Perhaps it's simply the ebb and flow of the oceanic depths of the divine. Speaking of, I found a new pleasure last night when I recalled how inspiring the writings of Rumi are. So I wrote. This is what came of that inspiration:

"Ocean of Mind"

"One could spend a lifetime amassing great worldly wealth, knowledge and experience. Yet it would be but a handful of sand among all the deserts of the Earth. Its very nature to slip through clinging fingers ignored as one hurriedly reaches down for more under the delirium of the baking sun.

Just beyond the desert lie supreme wealth, knowledge, and experience within the absorbing oceanic depths of the mind. Patience and compassion is friend to those who discover and explore its vastness. For though the ocean-delver's only worldly wish is to share the discovery of the ocean with others, they know the great difficulty with which the desert-dweller will take heed.

Narrow are the creeks of human language which lead out of the desert into the ocean. And very few are they with the boats of discernment to negotiate the way. Although access to the ocean's ecstasy lie just under the nose of the human, for most it is still countless lifetimes away.

It is only ever here and now which one can catch scent of the soft caressing winds carrying even the lightest essence of the infinitely abundant ocean. Its effect so intoxicating and yet so sublime and familiar. The few who then step forward, relinquishing their coveted handful of sand, do so as they realize its only true value was in precious fleeting moments which vaguely reminded of their oceanic Home."


Perhaps some will find it pleasing to the mind as I have. Its wording may not be as appropriate to the experienced mystic as it could be, but to this novice it suffices.

I shouldn't find it odd that moving ever deeper into the mystical inspires and urges creative outlets. I find myself suddenly very curious about Jhananda's "A Stone Worn to Sand." Despite any shortcomings of the "Ocean of Mind", I found it deeply relieving and soothing to attempt to express the beauty, power and profundity of the experiences which this community has so generously helped me to move deeper into.

I enjoyed reading your "Ocean of Mind" and sensed the flavor of Rumi in it.  This is why we read the mystics, and avoid the commentaries of the unattained intellectuals.
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Jhanon

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2014, 03:59:29 AM »
Notes for expansion when on laptop later:

- i have discovered a journal entry of Jhananda's where he states that he has found the more he abstains from the senses for consolation/comfort, the more he experiences jhana-nimitta. This coincides with my own observations and appears to answer my recent investigations regarding this.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 03:08:55 AM by Jhanon »

Jhanon

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2014, 11:43:07 PM »
Lately there is certainly no shortage of worldly life motivations to attain enlightenment. This really is a hell plane.

Jhanananda

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2014, 01:13:08 AM »
Sorry to hear, Jhanon, that the dukkha is on the rise for you.  It is just par for the course.  If enough of us mystics can come together in support of each other I believe we can collectively reduce the dukkha factor for all of us.
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Jhanon

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2014, 05:57:37 AM »
Thank you, Jhananda. I agree. I find myself thinking about ways to make it work. Publish a book, use the proceeds toward establishing a physical location with the necessities for the GWV sangha to practice. Even self-publishing on Kindle might work. Or maybe we'll need many books from different GWV members which all discuss the salient jhana-driven facets of the practice.

I don't even know where I'll find shelter in the coming months. But somehow I need to find some level of routine stability and time so that I can work on a book. Even just cranking out a short one is better than nothing. I mean--have you read some of those commentaries!? They dance in circles, rarely mentioning anything of actual use for practice. I must have read 25 books just looking for clues into jhana.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 06:00:07 AM by Jhanon »

Ichigo

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2014, 01:28:02 PM »
Shelter.. what a nice word, I got Social Anxiety Disorder, and a shelter is all I want.

Jhanon

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2014, 01:38:05 PM »
It's interesting how life seems to create our greatest fears and aversions. I sometimes wonder, why is that? You know, something like not wanting to become one of our parents. Well why would one waste it's time with something like that? It is fairly likely that the ego which was conditioned by the parents, will to that extent become the parents. So it's a lost cause from the beginning, and yet the thoughts still come.

Lately I've really been needing a refuge. Meditation isn't as relieving as usual. So I think "you're just awareness, out at the movies. Instead of wishing the movie was different, just try to find your way to the exit. Because once you leave the theater, it will be only one more movie among the many you've seen."

I don't know if we are anything. But it seems likely that awareness is the one ever-present out of all which constitutes experience.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 01:39:57 PM by Jhanon »

Jhanon

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2014, 01:43:00 PM »
Shelter.. what a nice word, I got Social Anxiety Disorder, and a shelter is all I want.

As do I, Ichigo. I think most of us here could qualify with most of the common diagnosis. I have about 7 under my belt, according to doctors over the years. I think it is primarily because a high degree of sensitivity is required and unfolds on the Path. At least we have access to beautiful samadhi states as a result.

I really want to get us all out of our life situations and into the wilderness together. Because when I even just spend time with someone who genuinely practices, I feel at ease. But there is just so few of us out there. And when we combine that with nature, it is all much easier to bare.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 01:48:43 PM by Jhanon »

Michel

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2014, 05:19:40 PM »
As do I, Ichigo. I think most of us here could qualify with most of the common diagnosis. I have about 7 under my belt, according to doctors over the years. I think it is primarily because a high degree of sensitivity is required and unfolds on the Path. At least we have access to beautiful samadhi states as a result.

I really want to get us all out of our life situations and into the wilderness together. Because when I even just spend time with someone who genuinely practices, I feel at ease. But there is just so few of us out there. And when we combine that with nature, it is all much easier to bare.
Shelter.. what a nice word, I got Social Anxiety Disorder, and a shelter is all I want.
I too have suffered from what they call 'SAD'. It's a characteristic common to many people, not all, who have been diagnosed with so-called 'bipolar disorder'. A group of mystics living together in a self-sustaining community would be a far better alternative to the mad, paranoid schizophrenic environment that we all live in. There would be many hurdles to overcome. But it takes $$$. So one of these days I'm going to go out and buy a lottery ticket.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 05:43:13 PM by Michel »

Jhanon

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2014, 05:46:00 AM »
Hahaha! Best of wishes with that lottery ticket! You never know :)

Oh, and Jhananda, apologies for not responding to your previous posts. I found them very helpful, but I will admit I haven't been committing much time to the forum. I'm using the mobile phone to type this, as I lately only find the urge and time to forum when I lay in bed after family is asleep, and it takes so much longer to respond than a PC.

Jhanon

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2014, 07:09:45 PM »
I was happily gifted some time to meditate before bed recently. I took up the usual hand tactile charisms and began to go down the rabbit hole. Usually one or two of the other senses will manifest evident charisms along the way. This time it was the sense of balance. The sense of balance seems to manifest often for me, which is great for me as an individual, as I will soon explain.

Instead of looking at the balance charism merely as a door to OOB as I usually do, I cultivated it for the sheer pleasure of it. It grew and grew until I realized this was indeed the euphoria I so much enjoyed when I used to dabble in drugs. The bliss of tactile charism is good, but the euphoria of the balance charism is even better. Fortunately, both were developing in unison during this session. I began to feel joy, which is rarely evident during my meditations--even when they progress on to the immaterial states.

It appeared that the tactile charism gave way to the balance charism which synergized together and created a sense of joy.

It seems to me, at least when a meditator first begins diving deep into absorption (as I am), that each individual is predisposed to a certain combination of charism. When they come together, as they did this time, the meditation process becomes organic and self-propelling. Whereas in the past when I have meditated deeply, I did so by using the feedback of stronger charism activity as motivation to let go and rest the mind more fully. This may seem like an arbitrary difference, and if so, then I have failed to explain as fully as needed.

What I want to say here is that each sense indeed appears to have its own charism. There is not just the six senses. There is the sense of balance, as I've already discussed. There also appears to be a sense of heart which creates a warmth and comfort in the body (this is a close second in personal preference). And I believe that the sense of stomach (like how you know you during a meal that you are full) might also have a charismatic function.

Are there any other senses besides the 6 senses which I have missed here that can have charismatic activity?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 07:11:41 PM by Jhanon »

Jhanananda

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2014, 11:40:34 PM »
I was happily gifted some time to meditate before bed recently. I took up the usual hand tactile charisms and began to go down the rabbit hole. Usually one or two of the other senses will manifest evident charisms along the way. This time it was the sense of balance. The sense of balance seems to manifest often for me, which is great for me as an individual, as I will soon explain.

Instead of looking at the balance charism merely as a door to OOB as I usually do, I cultivated it for the sheer pleasure of it. It grew and grew until I realized this was indeed the euphoria I so much enjoyed when I used to dabble in drugs. The bliss of tactile charism is good, but the euphoria of the balance charism is even better. Fortunately, both were developing in unison during this session. I began to feel joy, which is rarely evident during my meditations--even when they progress on to the immaterial states. It appeared that the tactile charism gave way to the balance charism which synergized together and created a sense of joy.

This is an excellent result, and this is how I meditate.

It seems to me, at least when a meditator first begins diving deep into absorption (as I am), that each individual is predisposed to a certain combination of charism. When they come together, as they did this time, the meditation process becomes organic and self-propelling. Whereas in the past when I have meditated deeply, I did so by using the feedback of stronger charism activity as motivation to let go and rest the mind more fully. This may seem like an arbitrary difference, and if so, then I have failed to explain as fully as needed.

What I want to say here is that each sense indeed appears to have its own charism. There is not just the six senses. There is the sense of balance, as I've already discussed. There also appears to be a sense of heart which creates a warmth and comfort in the body (this is a close second in personal preference). And I believe that the sense of stomach (like how you know you during a meal that you are full) might also have a charismatic function.

Are there any other senses besides the 6 senses which I have missed here that can have charismatic activity?

The charism of heart and stomach are traditionally called 'chakras."  In that case, there are 7 chankras, and, in my experience, the hands and feet can have as much charismatic energy as any of the chakras.
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Jhanon

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2014, 04:13:52 AM »
Good point on the chakras. I forgot about them in relation to "sense of heart".

If I remember correctly, there is a point where one can intimately know, and therefor appreciate, all the various charisms? I'm noticing that it appears so much of the joy one can get from samadhi is from getting to know and love the charisms. Oh how I would love to get to know them intimately and experience the peak of all these at once.

Jhanananda

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Re: Jhanon's Blog
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2014, 12:56:38 PM »
I call it a charismatic symphony.  Keep practicing, I am sure you will get there quite soon.
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