Author Topic: Questions about OOBEs  (Read 11877 times)

Tad

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #105 on: December 06, 2024, 03:57:54 AM »
Jhananda,

I like your approach to the idea of God. There has to be some sort of positive energy within the entire universe that encompasses love, interconnectedness, and intelligence beyond intellect. Otherwise, it would be impossible to awaken.

Jhanananda

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #106 on: December 06, 2024, 03:46:39 PM »
Jhananda,

I like your approach to the idea of God. There has to be some sort of positive energy within the entire universe that encompasses love, interconnectedness, and intelligence beyond intellect. Otherwise, it would be impossible to awaken.

Thank you, Tad

So would you say "God" is an impersonal force? Is it a super-consciousness that includes every individual "I"? If there is this sublime, transcendent source of love -- should we conclude it's unable to alleviate the suffering and harshness of the physical universe?

Yes, in my experience "god" is a super-consciousness that includes every individual "soul." Yes, in my experience it is the sublime, transcendent source of love which everyone is in search of, but only finds when they relinquish their craving for things and beings. Keep in mind the 4 Noble Truths. Suffering is an inherent characteristic of the material world. And, also keep in mind, there is not creator. The material world just exists.
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Alexander

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #107 on: December 07, 2024, 01:25:12 AM »
Yes, in my experience "god" is a super-consciousness that includes every individual "soul." Yes, in my experience it is the sublime, transcendent source of love which everyone is in search of, but only finds when they relinquish their craving for things and beings. Keep in mind the 4 Noble Truths. Suffering is an inherent characteristic of the material world. And, also keep in mind, there is not creator. The material world just exists.

Got it!

1 Would it be appropriate to say “we’re all One” from that perspective? Given the suffering of existence, I suppose “we’re all One and immortal” would be too positive/optimistic a statement.

2 Can you unpack jhanas 5-8? Or are they all simply OOB states?
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Jhanananda

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #108 on: December 07, 2024, 04:29:39 PM »
1 Would it be appropriate to say “we’re all One” from that perspective? Given the suffering of existence, I suppose “we’re all One and immortal” would be too positive/optimistic a statement.

I agree with both statements

2 Can you unpack jhanas 5-8? Or are they all simply OOB states?

I have already done so here and on the GWV website.
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Alexander

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #109 on: December 10, 2024, 11:13:52 AM »
I agree with both statements

Ah, beautiful ☺️

Some additional questions:

1 Are ghosts around us?

2 At the same time, it seems stories of ghosts and poltergeists are false? By this point, we would have scientifically documented ghost experiences if they were possible

3 Is it possible for a deva to “keep up” with developments in the physical world?

4 Are the vibrations felt by meditators/OOBErs the sensation of the spirit?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2024, 11:15:30 AM by Alexander »
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Jhanananda

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #110 on: December 10, 2024, 04:42:36 PM »
Some additional questions:

1 Are ghosts around us

2 At the same time, it seems stories of ghosts and poltergeists are false? By this point, we would have scientifically documented ghost experiences if they were possible

While most of the stories of ghosts and poltergeists are false; nonetheless, In my experiences we persist in an ocean of spirit surrounded by spirit beings at all times.

3 Is it possible for a deva to “keep up” with developments in the physical world?

There is no reason to do so, other than "developments" in spiritual evolution, and they get that through direct contact through dreams, depth of meditation and the dead.

4 Are the vibrations felt by meditators/OOBErs the sensation of the spirit?

While in our experience here most people who claim to meditate never get anything out of it, because the people who are famous for promoting meditation don't know how to meditate; nonetheless, as the record shows here some people do indeed learn to meditate skillfully and indeed have genuine spiritual experiences during meditation as demonstrated by the experiences reported here.
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Alexander

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #111 on: December 11, 2024, 10:51:44 AM »
Thank you 🙏. It’s all very cogent and internally consistent.

To unpack a couple confused points:

1 Do you know anything more about the historical “Shiva”? “Kali”? It being Gilgamesh would be a little far for accounts of him to reach India, no?

2 Any news learned about the “lost female prophet” who was of the same caliber as Christ?

3 Would it be appropriate to speculate Christ may have been more of a contemplative than exists in the tradition — and our understanding of him was distorted by later writers and interpreters (for example, Constantine)?

4 To help inspire those who want to emulate you, can you describe your default state? Would you say you hear the inner sound (tinnitus) very loudly, constantly? Are you saturated with bliss and vibrations even when not meditating? And — these nimitta are a product of a daily intense practice, say 5 hours of meditation a day?
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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #112 on: December 11, 2024, 06:19:24 PM »
Thank you 🙏. It’s all very cogent and internally consistent.

To unpack a couple confused points:

1 Do you know anything more about the historical “Shiva”? “Kali”? It being Gilgamesh would be a little far for accounts of him to reach India, no?

When I examine the iconography of Shiva verses Gilgamesh I see remarkable similarities, most notably a muscular man wearing a tiger's skin and carrying a pitchfork is just too similar. Secondly the art forms related to these two mythical men arise on either side of the Himalyan mountains, and while the distances seem difficult to justify; nonetheless, when we consider that the term 'Aryan' appears in the literature of both Mesopotamia and Hinduism, then I have sufficient compelling evidence to link the two together. We should also consider that these two figures are the earliest mythical figures in both cultures.

2 Any news learned about the “lost female prophet” who was of the same caliber as Christ?

I'm not sure whom you refer to.

3 Would it be appropriate to speculate Christ may have been more of a contemplative than exists in the tradition — and our understanding of him was distorted by later writers and interpreters (for example, Constantine)?

What western Christianity has been propagating regarding Jesus is mostly myth, and comes after the first Naicein counsel where trinitarianism was rejected. It is my hypothesis if Jesus existed at all, and I find there is sufficient compelling evidence that he did, then he was most probably a contemplative who had found the fruit of the contemplative life.

4 To help inspire those who want to emulate you, can you describe your default state? Would you say you hear the inner sound (tinnitus) very loudly, constantly? Are you saturated with bliss and vibrations even when not meditating? And — these nimitta are a product of a daily intense practice, say 5 hours of meditation a day?

1) Yes, I hear the charismatic sound 24-7, which is not tinnitus, because tinnitus is due to neurological damage, not the practice of meditation. And, the evidence of this in part is the sound gets louder when I meditate, which is part of my default state.

2) my default state also includes keeping my mind in the present moment, which does require a daily meditation practice, and well as vigilance. It is not that I never think of the past or future, but I know when I do it invariably results in depression, anxiety, and other unwholesome thoughts, so when I notice it, then I return my awareness to the present moment. Doing so I keeps my mind upon pleasant thoughts.

3) To define further I define 'bliss' as a feeling of love, and yes I experience this most of the time as long as I keep my mind in the present moment. And, the vibrations are also ever present.

4) My daily meditation practice is less formal since my COPD diagnosis, in which I am most of the time on a respirator and often bedridden, but when I am, then most of the time I endeavor to keep my mind still and in the present moment, which by definition is not just formal meditation practice, but in one of the 4 jhanas. Otherwise prior to my chronic illness, and throughout most of the 50 years of my contemplative life I began and ended everyday with a formal meditation session which was typically an hour long, and tended to result in one of the 4 jhanas. I also tended to practice for about an hour in the middle of the day for about an hour if I could fit it in.
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Alexander

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #113 on: December 15, 2024, 09:16:21 PM »
Thank you. Very detailed and excellent responses.

Did you ever inquire into your “past lives,” trying to find a record of their names, etc, to confirm they were real?
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Jhanananda

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #114 on: December 16, 2024, 05:21:57 PM »
Thank you. Very detailed and excellent responses.

Did you ever inquire into your “past lives,” trying to find a record of their names, etc, to confirm they were real?

I've thought of it, but I have been too occupied with more important issues. Also, most people are obscure in history, so the likelihood of finding a record for my past lifetimes becomes more difficult the farther back in time we go.
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Alexander

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #115 on: December 17, 2024, 04:39:01 PM »
I've thought of it, but I have been too occupied with more important issues. Also, most people are obscure in history, so the likelihood of finding a record for my past lifetimes becomes more difficult the farther back in time we go.

Yes I was thinking about the German lifetime, I wonder if you could identify the name or surname of it.
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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #116 on: December 18, 2024, 07:51:03 PM »
Yes, I thought the German WWII lifetime might be the easiest to track down. No, in my experience the OOBE is non-verbal. Instead the details of a German civil engineer during WWII, graduate of a German university, who had a PhD and was an expert in the bridges of the region, who was found to be aiding the resistance, and was sent to a concentration camp, might be searchable.
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Tad

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #117 on: December 23, 2024, 04:27:46 AM »
What do you think about the god-like being of light that quite many people encounter during OOB in NDEs? The interesting thing is that that being of light seems to have power over where people can be reborn and can interact with people with no words. Is it Maha Brahma or Christian God or what? Also Yogananda said that God is not personal but can take personal forms if needed.

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #118 on: December 23, 2024, 04:18:40 PM »
What do you think about the god-like being of light that quite many people encounter during OOB in NDEs? The interesting thing is that that being of light seems to have power over where people can be reborn and can interact with people with no words. Is it Maha Brahma or Christian God or what? Also Yogananda said that God is not personal but can take personal forms if needed.

This is actually a complex question, which requires a complex answer, which is likely to take some dialog. So, since you mentioned Yogananda, then I will begin with Yogananda's concept of Babaji, which refers to an eternally youthful and eternally living physical being who is also divine. Its origins are with his teachers Yuktaswar et al. Their belief has its origins in a much more ancient Indic cultural belief around Shiva, who has the same traits.

The experience of the Babaji figure in the Self Realization Fellowship (SRF) of Yogananda is most often expressed as an experience that some of them have in deep meditation. The experience is generally expressed as, while feeling very deep in meditation, one will see before one an individual, typically in silhouette. I have had this experience many, many times in the 50 years of my daily meditation practice. It consistently occurs for me as the 4th stage of samadhi (4th jhana) is about to give way to the 5th stage of samadhi, which we have discussed here many times is the first stage of the Out-of-Body experience (OOBE). And, I have found I see this silhouette when I have drifted OOBE just a little bit to the point that my astral body is actually looking back at my physical body.
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Tad

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Re: Questions about OOBEs
« Reply #119 on: December 25, 2024, 08:48:35 AM »
Jhananda,

thanks for response. It is quite an interesting topic. I have read some teachings by Yogi mystics but never studied them in depth. I guess they tend to interpret experiences of universe more personally and organically than Buddhist counterparts. I wonder if it is possible to accurately correlate Yogi samadhis to Pali jhanas or if there some differences.