Author Topic: Rougeleader (beginner)  (Read 59794 times)

Jhanon

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2014, 11:06:04 PM »
I really agree with both Jhananda and Michel. If you're really angry, it may even seem like we are trying to indoctrinate you. But that's really not true.

Instead of getting drunk or usig drugs, and becoming destructive and in despair, all three of us have suggested that the Dhamma really is the only way. It really does work. Not on faith, but on cold, hard truth.

Whatever may happen there, you should know that you are loved here. And you cannot do anything to stop us from having love for you. We were your friends before you ever met us in this life.

Thank you for sharing with us. And thank you to Michel and Jhananda for their words of support.

You can be absolutely sure of one thing; we will not betray you--because we have committed our lives to doing no harm, and feeling loving-kindness to all beings. I feel more pain for these two who have done this to you--because they almost certainly don't have the wisdom and support you have. If they do not find the path, like you have, then they will suffer for what they've done. And yet that suffering will not lead to the end of suffering, like it will for you. But maybe, just maybe, if you handle this the way we are encouraging you to; they will find the path to liberation and wisdom as you have.

Because of all the wrongs I have forgiven, of all the ex-girlfriends who cheated on me or abandoned me; they have respect for me. They see that special something that allows me to not only forgive them, but want to help them. That is how you can prevail, and be strong, and admirable.

To pull a line from Jesus "Forgive them, for they know not what they do."
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 11:20:24 PM by Jhanon »

Michel

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2015, 03:22:18 PM »
 Hello Rougeleader,

I read what you posted on Skype recently and I thought that this might be helpful for you in order to develop forgiveness towards your partner, your friend, and even yourself.

Quote from: Jack Kornfield
Forgiveness Meditation - by Jack Kornfield

Forgiveness of others, forgiveness of yourself

To practice forgiveness meditation, let yourself sit comfortably, allowing your eyes to close and your breath to be natural and easy. Let your body and mind relax. Breathing gently into the area of your heart, let yourself feel all the barriers you have erected and the emotions that you have carried because you have not forgiven - not forgiven yourself, not forgiven others. Let yourself feel the pain of keeping your heart closed. Then, breathing softly, begin asking and extending forgiveness, reciting the following words, letting the images and feelings that come up grow deeper as you repeat them.

FORGIVENESS OF YOURSELF:

There are many ways that I have hurt and harmed others, have betrayed or abandoned them, cause them suffering, knowingly or unknowingly, out of my pain, fear, anger and confusion.

Let yourself remember and visualize the ways you have hurt others. See and feel the pain you have caused out of your own fear and confusion. Feel your own sorrow and regret. Sense that finally you can release this burden and ask for forgiveness. Picture each memory that still burdens your heart. And then to each person in your mind repeat:

I ask for your forgiveness, I ask for your forgiveness.

FORGIVENESS FOR YOURSELF:

There are many ways that I have hurt and harmed myself. I have betrayed or abandoned myself many times through thought, word, or deed, knowingly or unknowingly.

Feel your own precious body and life. Let yourself see the ways you have hurt or harmed yourself. Picture them, remember them. Feel the sorrow you have carried from this and sense that you can release these burdens. Extend forgiveness for each of them, one by one. Repeat to yourself:

For the ways I have hurt myself through action or inaction, out of fear, pain and confusion, I now extend a full and heartfelt forgiveness. I forgive myself, I forgive myself.

FORGIVENESS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE HURT OR HARMED YOU:

There are many ways that I have been harmed by others, abused or abandoned, knowingly or unknowingly, in thought, word or deed.

Let yourself picture and remember these many ways. Feel the sorrow you have carried from this past and sense that you can release this burden of pain by extending forgiveness when your heart is ready. Now say to yourself:

I now remember the many ways others have hurt or harmed me, wounded me, out of fear, pain, confusion and anger. I have carried this pain in my heart too long. To the extent that I am ready, I offer them forgiveness. To those who have caused me harm, I offer my forgiveness, I forgive you.

Let yourself gently repeat these three directions for forgiveness until you feel a release in your heart. For some great pains you may not feel a release but only the burden and the anguish or anger you have held. Touch this softly. Be forgiving of yourself for not being ready to let go and move on. Forgiveness cannot be forced; it cannot be artificial. Simply continue the practice and let the words and images work gradually in their own way. In time you can make the forgiveness meditation a regular part of your life, letting go of the past and opening your heart to each new moment with a wise loving kindness.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 06:25:48 PM by Michel »

rougeleader115

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2016, 02:01:12 PM »
Have not posted on my progress lately. Still diving through what seems like ever deepening layers of the immaterial. Dreams have cycled from being extremely personal and painful(either emotional or physical), to being entirely random, to feeling like possible past lifetimes. Theres a dream I had in the past few months that was one of the more spiritual dreams I've had, besides flying and passing through walls. I was on some uninhabited planet. Pink, blue, yellow leaves on trees, yellow-green grass, the sky lightly tinted pink with a blanket of clouds all throughout. As I began walking forward, I felt my awareness 'intensify"? Then its like there was a large pressure release, and the "bottom" of my awareness stretched down to the floor. Simultaneously, the "top" of my awareness began to slowly stretch up into the sky. It just kept going and going until I passed beyond the clouds and into space. As I began to see other planets and stars, I realized I could see from ground level all the way to the planet and stars, but as one object of my awareness. As I realized how much was happening, I either became afraid or excited because I woke up immediately. Felt like I was getting smacked into my body, harder than usual on reentry.

Again this is just one of a slew of strange experiences over the past few months. I have been getting less and less sleep sadly, because the dreams are so intense they wake me up very often. Also because of the general increase in sensitivity and charisms these past few months, I just end up laying there meditating most of the night.
 With all this, most of my relationships have finally fallen out. I think it is for the better honestly, because most of these people were pretty sucky to me. And that's being nice. I am only sad that my words and efforts were wasted so many years, and now there is noone who would hear me anyway. But I could not keep sacrificing what to me is my only savior and purpose for people who only wish to spin in their emotional turmoil, and then lash out at everything they love when life doesn't go their way (WHICH IT NEVER DOES). I do not blame them for the cycle, because I know how easy it is to end up there, and how hard it can be to move from it. But when I am consistently dismissed and even accused of being crazy and insensitive over and over, I am finding very little point in opening my mouth or lifting a finger. They do not want anything from me, even if I only intend to love and help. And I am not one to force my love where it is unwanted. I have been so sopping wet with sensitivity, I began learning Japanese a few months ago, as well as refreshing my Spanish. I've also begun drawing and painting, which I had a talent for in my youth, but traded exploring that for martial arts and football. I regret football but never martial arts. I may post some of them, because I honestly thought I had lost my ability to express artistically, and I never realized how much better I feel the better I get at it. I relate most of my new interests to my meditation, because it feels like I'm just supposed to keep diving into this sensitivity. It is making my life so alive and beautiful, even the darkest spots. It feels like letting the reigns around my heart go is the most essential thing for my contemplative life at this time. Been too sensitive to be around people lately, and stay to myself as often as possible.

That's all I'm going to report for now, I have been here typing too long. Thank you to everyone who takes the time to read my entries and for giving me a space to speak. There is still nowhere for me to speak of the things that I/we are going through here.

Much Love,
Rougeleader

Jhanananda

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2016, 01:13:17 PM »
Good to hear from you Rougeleader.  Yes, I too find expanding awareness into the spiritual dimensions produced a profound sense of tumbling through space-time that this present space-time is just one of countless others that I have become aware of.  It has also produced for me as well a sense of alienation in that there are so few with whom I can share this strange feeling of being a snow flake drifting through space-time.
There is no progress without discipline.

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rougeleader115

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2016, 06:24:20 PM »
Thank you for the support over the past few years Jhanananda. It has helped me more than I can ever say. It is true, the alienation is only getting worse for exactly the reasons you describe. Your book, A Stone Worn to Sand, has been a great comfort to me these past few months. I am so glad to know I am not crazy going through this transition, it is just taking some getting used to haha.


Much Love,
Rougeleader

Jhanananda

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PM »
This is why this forum exists.
There is no progress without discipline.

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rougeleader115

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2016, 10:46:58 PM »
Hello everyone,

There is not much new to report as of late. I have just simply been struggling with my practice. Lately my fear/anxiety have been high in relation to my meditation. I am ashamed to say I get afraid I may not be able to handle the path to enlightenment, or annihilation. The ringing in my ears blasts so loud and energy in my heart and third eye get so tingly and intense that I get restless. Especially as my thoughts stop entirely, I become lost how to calmly stay aware of the sensations. I think I may need to also find a way to relate to the charisms in a more religious mindset. it has been said in my thread and elsewhere that this will help them not feel like random sensations. Has anyone found a deceynt way to do this? What way could I interpret them?

Rougeleader

Jhanananda

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2016, 12:43:00 AM »
Hello, Rougeleader.  It is good to hear from you again.  I am sorry to read that fear and anxiety, but I am not surprised as the world is full of fear and anxiety, so as we meditate deeply sometimes we can feel the collective unconscious, which can be fear and anxiety.

I do agree that we are aided by a feeling of reverence toward the experience of deep meditation.  Terms like: "God," "holy spirit" and "heavenly host" have been used by Christian mystics since the beginning of Christianity to describe their experiences, which appear to be quite similar to ours.  Hindus use terms like: "Brahma;" Deva-loca;" "Shakti;" "Shiva;" "Babaji;"  Buddhists use terms like: "Brahma-loca;" "Deva-loca;" "Bhodi;" or one of the four jhanas, or one of the four ayatanas; etc.  Take your pick, of whatever floats your boat.
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rougeleader115

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2017, 06:08:28 PM »
Hello everyone,

Just chiming in with a quick update. Still not entirely lucid in the dream state, though I am still not discouraged. Last night, like many, it felt like a few days went by during one and there were a variety throughout the night. I have observed this happening consitently during my meditations as well. I aware of the bliss and body for about an hour or so and then blackout and appear in a dream. When sitting meditation this is usually when my head will begin to nod off over and over, so I usually lay down and continue from there.

This morning meditation was just special because i found a deeper layer of bliss come to on than I was used to. But I was able to let go fairly deeply with awareness and have found my heart, throat,third eye heavily saturated in bliss today and the ringing on full blast whether my attention is on it or not. Just wanted to share the good of my day.

Good day fellows!
Rougeleader

Jhanananda

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2017, 03:56:11 PM »
Hello everyone,

Just chiming in with a quick update. Still not entirely lucid in the dream state, though I am still not discouraged. Last night, like many, it felt like a few days went by during one and there were a variety throughout the night. I have observed this happening consitently during my meditations as well. I aware of the bliss and body for about an hour or so and then blackout and appear in a dream. When sitting meditation this is usually when my head will begin to nod off over and over, so I usually lay down and continue from there.

I found that as I penetrated deeper into meditation states, then I went through a period of nodding out.  I just stuck with it, until I broke through to deeper levels of consciousness.

This morning meditation was just special because i found a deeper layer of bliss come to on than I was used to. But I was able to let go fairly deeply with awareness and have found my heart, throat,third eye heavily saturated in bliss today and the ringing on full blast whether my attention is on it or not. Just wanted to share the good of my day.

Good day fellows!
Rougeleader

We all have ups and downs in meditation.  It is good to know that you are making continued progress.
There is no progress without discipline.

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rougeleader115

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2017, 05:35:49 PM »
Thank you Jeffrey! I am definitely going to push to stay aware a little harder in that case, and try to continue sitting or standing as I begin to nod. Definitely riding a deeper wave of bliss and dreams this week. This past year there has been a definite shift from mostly nightmares every time I became lucid to being more benign and simply random.

 There was even a period of intensely personal fear related dreams, but even those are coming with less frequency and cause much less to no trauma upon waking. And last ttime I dreamnt the plane I was on was plummeting to the ground, even though insanely terrifying and one of my biggest fears, I found myself letting my hands and arms float in the air from the forces and trying to relax my heart into accepting I couldn't control whether I died or not. And when I woke up I was not flooded with anxiety and bliss, but just the bliss of an intense and lucid dream. Ive had this dream many many times but i stilI take these as signs of deepening equanimity. I assume and hope that soon I will continue lessen and eventually lose my fear surrounding death and illness.

Rougeleader

Jhanananda

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2017, 02:53:20 PM »
Yes, the contemplative life reveals our inner most demons, which we must face to go deeper into meditation states; and as we go deeper into meditation states we expose deeper fears, and anxieties.  All of this requires developing equanimity, which we get from deep meditation experiences, as you have described.
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Yogi123

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2018, 08:13:53 PM »
Hi

I saved a link to Jack Kornfield demonstrating the forgiveness meditation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiRP-Q4mMtk

Isn't it wonderful? At least, thats how I feel about it.

Jhanananda

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2018, 04:23:48 PM »
Very nice.  Jack Kornfield, Insight Meditation Society and Spirit Rock were behind marginalizing me.  Also, I have found no evidence of the superior attainments among: Jack Kornfield, Insight Meditation Society and Spirit Rock.
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Yogi123

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2018, 07:08:16 AM »
Spirit Rock Center, I know....

To my knowledge, Christopher Titmuss stopped teaching there.

The website and the meditation place have a very slick appearance.