In search of understanding...

[Jhanon]

Just read the beginning of the Power of Now again, or further into it. Your "host" is nothing more than a husk, like the caterpillar uses as a cacoon before soon breaking out of it and flyin away free as a butterfly. The cacoon served and serves a purpose. It is like a servant, or a tool.

[Jhanon]

Just read the beginning of the Power of Now again, or further into it. Your "host" is nothing more than a husk, like the caterpillar uses as a cacoon before soon breaking out of it and flyin away free as a butterfly. The cacoon served and serves a purpose. It is like a servant, or a tool.

Most people are like caterpillars (ego/identity). Once one enters the stream, it is like we've entered the cocoon (we're wrapped in ego/identity, but do not mistake it for ourselves). Full enlightenment is a butterfly, where only a few parts of our identity remains--such as the body. I believe this is an accurate way to explain it.

[Sam Lim]

To Cal

Are you afraid of yourself?

This state of being is when you are observing your body and it's activity. Nothing to be afraid of.
To be a mystic or contemplative, one must be a warrior. The weapons should be equanimity and critical thinking. Most of all I would advise you to read the 4 noble truth and try to get the real meaning.

Edit : Sorry for the earlier post.

[Jhanon]

I agree, Gandarloda. I thought your first version of your post was just fine. But this one is even better.

Thank you

[Michel]

To Cal

... Most of all I would advise you to read the 4 noble truth and try to get the real meaning.

FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS

Suffering - from SN 22:104 (2)

At Savatthi. "Bhikkhus, I will teach you suffering, the origin of
suffering, the cessation of suffering, and the way leading to the
cessation of suffering.

"And what, bhikkhus, is suffering? It should be said: the five
aggregates subject to clinging. What five?  The form
aggregate subject to clinging, the feeling aggregate subject to
clinging, the perception aggregate subject to clinging, the volitional
formations aggregate subject to clinging, the consciousness
aggregate subject to clinging. This is called suffering.

'And what, bhikkhus, is the origin of suffering? It is this craving
that leads to renewed existence, accompanied by
delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving
for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination.
This is called the origin of suffering.

"And what, bhikkhus, is the cessation of suffering? It is the
remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving,
the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, nonreliance
on it. This is called the cessation of suffering.

"And what, bhikkhus, is the way leading to the cessation of
suffering? It is this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view ...
right concentration. This is called the way leading to the cessation
of suffering."

[Jhanon]

Here it the Buddha's 4 noble truths, and all other disciplines as extracted and properly translated from the discourses. Together, I think, they give the best picture. But it is a long read.

http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/mahasatipatthanasutta.htm

[Cal]

I revisit the four noble truths and find more understanding. Through contemplation, one finds the answers sought after.

Yes, Sam, it is I that I fear. I will cause the ones I love more suffering. Especially if I do not control how and when I express myself. That state of "being" did not understand consequence.

Jhanananda said "it takes patience and stick to it ive ness" I can relate his meaning, here.

Thanks for the post as well, Michel. I read it as best I could, but it's a little harder to follow, I have to read it slow. 

Thank you all again.

Jhanon you've got a way with analogies, I understand you brother, thank you again.

[Jhanananda]

Jhanananda, when you say that mastery of the 4th jhana is the relinquishing of the 10 fetters, you mean this litterally? That "space" and feeling therein is void of any fetters...when you say live the rigorous contemplative life, you mean stay in 4th jhana...this one is pretty obvious.

Yes, when you describe observing yourself working, or driving home, but you are not doing the driving.  This is at least the 3rd jhana.  However, psychiatry would call it a dissociated state. They are not mystics. Just move through life like this, and allow it to go deeper.

[Cal]

Thank you so very much jhanananda. I will continue.

[Valdy]

Hello Cal

We don't need a sense of purpose, that is an identity that comes from the ego. If you get to a point where you have no sense of purpose you can just look at yourself and notice that you are still there and are still OK.

I call it living with no visible means of support.

In a meditation I feel that I am in "Oneness" and then back in physical reality I am in "duality".

In oneness love comes automatically as bliss but in duality love comes as the insight into good and evil. In duality if you want to experience love you may get a lesson in evil until the point that you understand and then it will switch to love. In a meditation I don't have to experience anything I just feel bliss without experiencing good and evil.

For myself it makes me feel as if I don't want to be here at all but if I just surrender and then follow what the day gives me without worrying about it then things work out better, I don't need to know and there is comfort in that : -)

Bless Valdy

[Cal]

Yes, "Life" has a way of operating in extremity, yet thankful, cause the hardest lesson is the one best learned, no? It touches me deeply to hear another describe, that they too, feel the same in meditation. =)

The sense of "purpose" is something that came, and has now gone. Once the answer was given, it has had no meaning. It still has an identity, yet fading. I do not. I must remain a watcher at all times, in this, I will guide it to truth. Yet I must learn many more things as well.

Please forgive my speaking this way, yet http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/mahasatipatthanasutta.htm has provided some great insight. The experience from last night, and the guidance to train it provided in this link, will lead us.

[Cal]

Alexander, you spoke of Father Rogers as being the flip side to our meditation coin. If it is how I see it now, I agree. Wow.

[Alexander]

Hello Cal,

Yes, as I said in the thread on Discerning Attainment, Father Roger is a nonreturner, but exhibits no charisms. The most fantastic thing, he said, was the experience that accompanied conversion.

I attribute this to his not practicing meditation. His one practice is to repeat the Jesus Prayer. That explains his control over the mind/self. But, the Jesus Prayer is based on mental repetition, not quiescence. So, to attain quiescence, as St. Teresa says, he must evacuate the thoughts from his mind.

He remains holy and wise. In his case that state exists independently of the signs/symptoms of holiness.

[Alexander]

Actually I was just talking to him about this the other day. He was defending to me how he liked his thoughts, he did not want to give them up. Of course, he is a scholar. But, I had to inform him of his laziness. Haha.

[Cal]

You must know him very well, or your discernment is impeccable, or even both? "The most fantastic thing...was the experience that accompanied conversation." There is great insight in this.

He may simply view "himself" as a man of god. In fact, I am sure he does.

Thank you Alexander.