Alexander's Blog

[Valdy]

Hello Alexander

The simplest way for me to get OOB is to use a suggestion as I go to sleep that I want to go OOB while I am dreaming. When you are dreaming you are already OOB so to find yourself OOB is not a big shock. A suggestion to "go OOB while I am dreaming".

My first OOB was spontaneous, it came from a huge life crisis and happened while I was awake. My body suddenly started to vibrate the way Monroe explains. To me it felt like, for example starting a small car, putting it in neutral and putting the accelerator to the floor, a sudden vibration like that but with no movement. My first OOB took about 4 hours and I presume that I broke some boundaries that now make it easier for me to get OOB. This first OOB was going OOB while I was awake. In order to get out I had to let go, and then had to let go of letting go.

Valdy

[Alexander]

Hello Alexander

The simplest way for me to get OOB is to use a suggestion as I go to sleep that I want to go OOB while I am dreaming. When you are dreaming you are already OOB so to find yourself OOB is not a big shock. A suggestion to "go OOB while I am dreaming".

My first OOB was spontaneous, it came from a huge life crisis and happened while I was awake. My body suddenly started to vibrate the way Monroe explains. To me it felt like, for example starting a small car, putting it in neutral and putting the accelerator to the floor, a sudden vibration like that but with no movement. My first OOB took about 4 hours and I presume that I broke some boundaries that now make it easier for me to get OOB. This first OOB was going OOB while I was awake. In order to get out I had to let go, and then had to let go of letting go.

Valdy

Thanks, Valdy, for the interesting thoughts!

[Alexander]

Log

5/17
Continuing with the alarm-interrupting-sleep practice. This evening did so in combination with an attempt at the "direct method" (after awakening, sit motionless, and meditate into sleep). No results. However, recalled a large number of dreams (perhaps the largest ever): 9? Had one false awakening.

5/18
First attempt with the "indirect method." Woke with the alarm, then each natural awakening tried to exit. Don't think I really followed the steps correctly. Hard to remember them all when one wakes up. I may have had three natural awakenings and tried on some level to exit each time. No results. No dreams recalled.

5/19
Second attempt with "indirect method." Had one attempt at it this night. Don't think I followed the steps correctly. No dreams recalled.

5/20
Intended to try with the "indirect method" but don't think I had any natural awakenings. Don't recall any attempts. Four dreams recalled. One false awakening.

5/21
One attempt with the indirect method this night. Actually partially followed the steps properly this time. Did the first "exit" attempt then "cycled" the exit techniques. The "wiggle a phantom limb" seemed to perhaps have actually brought results. Seemed like a ghostly limb may have been wiggling. But, was unable to get any farther than this. Recalled perhaps 11? dreams this night.

1. I am trying to keep in mind the three methods to provoke the OOBE amongst the above - including the lucidity method via dreams. It is interesting that one can be hyperconscious in the waking state but have none of this carry over into sleep. These are different skills and the lucidity in sleep is something entirely different.

2. I wonder what would happen if I died at this moment. Would I lack lucidity in the after-death state? Or would lucidity then emerge?

3. The false awakenings are interesting. Of course, they are happening and I still lack consciousness during them. Not sure how to cultivate dream lucidity. I have been asking "am I dreaming?" at random intervals throughout the day.

4. My dreams throughout my life have always been very low in "reality," not much higher than the level of imagination. They have perhaps 5% the realism of day to day sense experience. I am interested in the "deepening method" described by Raduga. The accounts of OOBEs I read always describe them as being hyperreal. It would be very interesting to experience this.

5. Raduga explains even if one moves or stirs after awakening, to still try to exit using the indirect method, and to be disciplined and cycle the exit attempts. Will try to keep this in mind.

6. Reflecting on the above practices, I am a little incredulous about the eccentricity of all this. Not necessarily for me, but for humanity in general. If training in all this is really required for "conscious dying" then very few people can ever do so. What number of human beings would ever learn about these things? Or practice them?

[Valdy]

It helps to improve a person's belief structure if you have ever had an OOB before.

When I was a child I used to have horrendous nightmares about falling from a bridge, it wasn't until I was older and had a few OOB's that I realized what the falling from the bridge was all about. That I was actually having OOBs but did not have any mental framework to describe them to myself.

The falling from the bridge dreams changed to suddenly waking up falling from the sky, falling from about a mile up and screaming. I solved these at the time by waking up. I wasn't able to change this system until I started to realize that a person cannot be harmed OOB. So one night I used Stephen LaBerge's dream sign's by asking myself "am I dreaming", I then woke up in the dream and saferly put on my air brakes and made a soft landing.

This form is not scrolling forward and I can't can't see what I am typing so I will quit

[Alexander]

It helps to improve a person's belief structure if you have ever had an OOB before.

When I was a child I used to have horrendous nightmares about falling from a bridge, it wasn't until I was older and had a few OOB's that I realized what the falling from the bridge was all about. That I was actually having OOBs but did not have any mental framework to describe them to myself.

The falling from the bridge dreams changed to suddenly waking up falling from the sky, falling from about a mile up and screaming. I solved these at the time by waking up. I wasn't able to change this system until I started to realize that a person cannot be harmed OOB. So one night I used Stephen LaBerge's dream sign's by asking myself "am I dreaming", I then woke up in the dream and saferly put on my air brakes and made a soft landing.

This form is not scrolling forward and I can't can't see what I am typing so I will quit

Thanks, Valdy.

[Jhanananda]

Everyone, please excuse the long delay since I last replied here.  As many of you know, my health is quite poor, and I am getting old.  We here in Prescott, AZ are well into our 5th month of record allergens, and allergens are at the root of my problems.  If I stay in my camper van, and regularly change my HEPA filters, then I enjoy relative good health.  If so, then I have not been able to get on line, because I needed to use the library's computers.  Thank-fully a friend fixed the OS on a laptop that was given to me last winter.  Now I can park in handicapped parking across from the library of the local junior college, where I have acquired internet access via WIFI.

Jeff, you are in a persistent thoughtless state correct? As I have been able to still the mind for ages - not silence it however.

Yes, I learned to silence the mind decades ago; however, I use it as a useful tool when needed.  I call it learning to find and use the off-switch for the mind, but using it for useful purposes, just not being addicted to the mind, as most people are.

I feel I have been waiting at the door to enter the final chamber for years now; struggling with what the issue is. At first I thought it was the traumatic stress thoughts - but those have subsided now.

Is a still mind sufficient for charismatic phenomena?

A still mind is the doorway to the charisms, as well as 6 more 'chambers' to pass through for final liberation.

Is there something necessary about prolonged bodily motionlessness?

Is that my issue?

Motionlessness, within the context of deep meditation here does not refer to rigidity.  To go deeper in the experience of deep meditation requires deep relaxation, so if one is being hyper-vigilant to keep the body from moving might be being rigid, and tense to keep the body from its automatic movements.  I find when my mind is still, then my body is so relaxed that, if I am sitting up to meditate, then my body may sway slightly as the major arteries and veins will cause a deeply relaxed body to sway slightly.

As I have been thinking for so long the "quest" is a purely cognitive activity. I notice when I sit for long periods the body begins to paralyze itself. Should I just be satisfied with the still mind and stay motionless for long periods rather than commit all this labor on the silent mind? Would that be my error? What do you recommend? What might I be missing?

Here I have to disagree.  The experience of deep meditation is relative in depth to how much cognition one has let go of, as the states are self-arising when the mind is still and relaxed.

Possibly what also is needed is to recognize the arising of the charisms, so that one can attend to them as if they were a meditation object.

I always thought if I got "stuck" on the path I'd just come out there and put myself under your yoke; though my Inner Director doesn't compel me to do this.

Well, people are welcome to visit me, and we can work out a mutually convenient time to do so; however, I am so ill with an over-loaded auto-immune system that I cannot breath the local air for more than an hour without it turning into a trip the the ER.  So, it is best for now that a serious contemplative find a conducive environment for deep meditation, and engage in it for at least 3-6 hours a day.

[Jhanananda]

Alexander, if you seek a still mind (which I define as no thoughts) (2nd jhana), then I suggest you make this your practice: Always observe the contents of the mind, without either accepting or rejecting the contents, and without making any commentary on them. You merely witness the contents of the mind.

Try this practice as an experiment for 10 days, and see where that gets you. For more detailed info on this, go into my post history and look at my post on mindfulness. Suspend judgement on this enterprise until the end of the 10 days. Although you claim that it took Teresa of Avila 12 years to silence her mind, it shouldn't take you, nor anyone, anymore than 10 days.

This is good advice, thank-you, Intuition.

[Jhanananda]

A few paradigm shifts since last week.

1. For some reason it seems I had the idea the still mind evolves into a superior "silent mind" in which no thought provocations arise. Perhaps this is achievable in an OOB state but after years of striving for perfect "silence" using all kinds of mechanisms in the here and now it seems to not be a good use of effort. The "still mind" will suffice.

While the still mind is a valuable stage to develop, and longer periods of stillness are useful, which can be accomplished in solo wilderness retreat; nonetheless other skills are necessary for depth.  These skills are detecting charisms, which require a still mind, but once the charisms start to arise, then they become the object of meditation, leaving behind observation of the still mind.

2. I have been consuming more literature on astral projection / the OOB state recently. I have been reading through Robert Monroe's original book on OOBEs and browsing some posts and guides by people who claim to be able to have OOBEs. I have been reading these with a good mix of openness and skepticism. Many of the ideas challenge well established notions. For example, one person claims to have interacted with aliens, been tackled by astral projecting secret service agents, etc. It may be in this higher reality there are deceptions there too.

Here is where I have been somewhat negligent.  Once one goes OOBE one will eventually find the immaterial domains are infinite, and highly stratified.  Thus, the first level one encounters in the immaterial domains is a domain that parallels the material world.  This is where we can encounter beings who are either asleep and dreaming, or those who are recently dead.  This domain is where we can encounter demons, and yes, it is a highly delusional domain.  We move beyond this delusional domain the deeper we learn to meditate.  Also, as we develop skill with sensing the charisms then the deeper/higher we go leaving behind the demons.  We just have to keep in mind that as scary as the lower astral realms appear the more delusional it is.

3. It seems I got the idea (from one of the Buddhist sutras somewhere) that it was necessary to master jhanas 1-4 to achieve enlightenment and the OOB state was of secondary importance. It seems I also developed some unclear ideas from reading mystical literature; for instance, the concept of the "unitive state" or "spiritual marriage" as a state in the here and now as the highest goal.

Yes, and no.  Yes, the 4 jhanas, or material attainments, are critical to develop for various reasons, and I will simply put it now as developing essential skills.  However, the 4 immaterial stages are also essential for various reasons but including greater depth in overcoming our delusions.

Here I will state that as long as we are in a material body, then we are subject to the body's biological imperatives.  When we fully gain facility with the 4 immaterial attainments (ayatanas), then we have shed most of what it is to be in biology.

4. Reading Monroe's account - and the accounts of others who have had OOBEs - it seems many of them have them with no prior preparation or meditation experience. I do not have a good narrative here and am honestly losing interest in creating one; it is what is. Monroe writes he had a nonexistent interest in religious questions prior to his experience; he experienced his first OOBEs just from relaxing deeply.

I had OOBEs throughout my childhood.  I did  not understand them, and no one helped me to understand them until I was 21.  It was then that I read a number of books including Monroe's  I left the OOBE community behind back in 1974 because they did not understand much of the immaterial domains or how to gain facility with them.  I found understanding and control of the immaterial domains via leading a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life, which most of the OOBE people do not seem to have come to.

5. Monroe's account testifies to the reality of the nonphysical, and on the survival of the spiritual after death. At the same time, it emphasizes the importance of trying to achieve this experience while alive, so one can be prepared for the end.

I agree.

6. From Evelyn Underhill, Gurdjieff, and similar writers I had the idea that those who experience OOBEs have been through the "mystical way." For example, they have gone through a process of metanoia (the transformation of the mind and emotions) - also called "purgation" in monastic literature - and the dark night of the soul, etc. Reading some of the accounts of people who have been OOB, it seems many have these experiences at an extremely young age with no prior preparation. So, this undermines all these neat narratives of how the mystical life works or develops. Though I do not lament my years of training and study and discipline, it is a paradigm shift.

The explanation for why people experience OOBEs prior to taking up a contemplative life is because they engaged in a fruitful contemplative life in previous lifetimes, and have come back to finish up.  I have recovered many previous lifetimes through the OOBE, and have found evidence in support of this hypothesis.  However, I have also observed while in an OOBE that when a master returns to a body for the betterment of material beings, then when he or she takes birth, his/her students also may return to the body, which explains why during the life of a master, the master accumulates students with impressive spiritual accomplishments.

7. Stopped meditating sitting. Meditating now lying on the back in bed, and orienting most sessions now to begin about an hour or two prior to sleeping. Focusing mostly on bodily motionlessness.

This is where the OOBE community has made a mistake.  They clearly do not understand the value of the 4 material attainments. While your practice regimen seems close to be correct, I would caution you that, while you seem to have gotten the 2nd jhana, you do not seem to have gotten the 3rd and 4th, which you are going to need when you go OOBE. 

So, sure practice meditation while lying down once you put the body to bed for the night.  Do not be rigid about not moving, instead just relax deeply, and be observant of the charisms as they arrive; otherwise continue your sitting practice to acquire the 3rd and 4th jhanas, and their associated charisms.

8. It seems the goal may be to reach what is called "sleep paralysis" and then "pull" oneself or "roll" oneself out of the body. I have never experienced this state of paralysis before, though I have felt the limbs and body parts "tingle" or change as you remain motionless for long periods.

Yes, sleep paralysis is a common experience prior to the OOBE, and one could practice various role-out methods.  They worked for me.  The tingling that you mentioned might just be one of the charisms, or it might be your limbs are falling asleep because you are not relaxing deeply enough, and being too rigid.

9. It seems being still for 1 hour is not a long enough time. This is what I have been doing and it may not be enough. I have been trying to find people giving time frames to give a better perspective. Some people claim paralysis can happen within 20 minutes, others say 1 hour or more.

Typical of the OOBE it has incommon with the 4th jhana a loss of the time domain, so one cannot be sure how much time goes by when one is in the 4th jhana, and just before the OOBE (5th samadhi) begins.

10. The paralysis / OOB state may have something to do with sleep phase (unclear). One writer is absolutely vehement it only happens during "phase 2" (?) of sleep. So what he writes is one should take a nap in the afternoon (uses your "phase 1" of sleep) then go back to bed with the bodily motionlessness practice to provoke the OOBE. I don't nap often but I may try to get an hour or two less of sleep one of these nights and give it a try.

Most of my early OOBEs occurred during a nap, or following one.

11. It seems I should expect blindness and a lack of other senses, strong sexual desire, and a difficulty separating from the physical body if I can provoke an OOB state. It seems sight and the other senses "develop." I should also expect, apparently, not to remember the experience and that for this reason I should write it down.

For me, the OOBE followed a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life that gave rise to the 4 material attainments (jhanas), and the developing of lucid dreaming, which included journaling my dreams.

12. It seems the experience of being OOB (I am writing as someone with no experience of it) gradually results in a development of senses in the "astral" body but then after sufficient time elapses it shifts into a wholly different experience as a formless being.

Those 'astral senses' are the charisms that we develop in the 3rd and 4th jhanas.

13. It seems sex in the physical world is a shadow version of intimate contact in the nonphysical world.

I do not see this, and see no reason for this; however, I can see that some people gain deep relaxation following sexual release of tension.

14. It seems OOB experiences take on two forms: one in which one has the experience of separating from the body and finding oneself in the present environment; and one in which there is no experience like this and in which one just finds oneself spiritually in a wholly other place. This distinction really clarifies a lot and helps make it a lot less confusing.

Yes, I have experienced both of these.  I do not think it matters much.  Once one goes OOBE one is likely over time to have both experiences.

15. Dreams, it seems, are in fact the lowest plane of the spiritual world and each night pretty much everyone visits the spirit world though they do so in a "drunk" or "unconscious" state. This is honestly a huge understanding to have in our world of 2019. Dreams are usually dismissed as oddities or events of moderate psychoanalytical interest but not much else. It seems that our distant ancestors, before the rise of technology, may have been quite active while asleep - which would explain much of the folklore around shamans, medicine men, etc - and with the advent of technology and materialism we lost this understanding.

Yes, these have been my experiences.

16. Lucid dreams seem to be a "created" reality (no experience with these either) but are still illusions. The out of body state is an interaction with a "real" world (?) though the concept of real changes quite dramatically here...

This is only true for those who are actively cultivating creative visualization.  Whereas, if an individual goes OOBE without the experience of leaving the body, then we can call that a lucid dream, or an OOBE.  It just depends upon the level of cognition that one is engaged in at the time.

17. Reflecting back on all this it is quite an extraordinary journey to come to this. It is indeed true the "straight and narrow path" is found by few and that "human beings are not supposed to find the spiritual path." Being born in the world one has no idea; the idea of there not being a spirit, atheism, materialism, etc, could be just as plausible as there being one from normal understanding. All the established religions with their corrupt priesthoods also lead one astray. Enlightenment itself could have been many things for all one knew and one might imagine it could have nothing to do with the "fantastic."

I do not agree with "human beings are not supposed to find the spiritual path."  However, it is true that the genuine mystics have remarkably similar experiences from one culture to the next.  And, the priesthood of every religion in most cases has no experience like we are discussing here, and they tend to demonize mystics, because they are "bad" for the business of religion.

18. I think of all those philosophers I read over the years who got side tracked thinking about other topics (economics, politics, etc...) missing the real goal of philosophy; or of Kant who thought there was no way one could have definitive knowledge of the spiritual one way or the other. I have to say I am glad there ended up being a spiritual realm and the like and it makes the whole cosmos a great deal more interesting. ;p

19. Been contemplating the reincarnation question and its relationship with karma, justice, free will, and destiny. Some of the OOB writers seem to say animal spirits are different from human spirits. This contradicts the usual Buddhist teaching that a human can descend and be incarnated as an animal with negative karma. I also question how one can obtain freedom if one lacks the cognitive powers of humans. Finding the "way" is hard enough in itself. Not sure...[/quote]

I do not see the need for cognition, and see how the 8 levels of spiritual attainment clearly occur as we drop the cognitive elements.

20. Been contemplating one strange idea I got from Gurdjieff which I've seen repeated by Monroe. These are honestly the only places I have encountered such a thing. Gurdjieff said "archangels" feed off the suffering and deaths of humans; that the whole earth is a kind of prison for their benefit. It seems Monroe had a similar idea which he mentioned once called the "loosh" farm... no idea what to think of it. If true it makes human life extremely bleak and intrinsically manipulated. But perhaps it is an allegorical / teaching tool.

I disagree here.

21. Been thinking about Plato and Socrates, the idea the physical world is an "emanation" of the higher spiritual world, and the World of the Forms. These great Greek philosophers had the right idea...

My experiences in the immaterial domains agrees with the above.

[Jhanananda]

I know a neat trick which works for me and you have already mentioned it here,,,  that worked for me everyday for straight 2 months and i have recorded all of the experiences. I only abandoned it cause it wasnt making me feel like i was progressing  in meditation. It involved same method of sleeping an hour less and then meditating for 30mins or so and then going back to sleep without moving a muscle..

This sounds like a reasonable technique.

[Jhanananda]

22. I think of my cousin who works at a hedge fund. Such a different path he has followed: following the wisdom of the world, a life filled with stress and anxiety and endless work hours, trying to accumulate wealth. And yet that wealth (as I intuited at a young age) only lasts so long. The same with my friend who is sex-obsessed. And here I have followed this (apparently ;p) foolish path, with this lifestyle that is simple and unambitious, and yet reach this otherworldly wisdom and have the potential for freedom. Life is a harsh place and very complex.

All too true.  And, these people who waist their entire life in materialism are the ones who will marginalize the fruitful contemplative.

[Jhanananda]

And yet, at times, in visiting Locale II, a very unusual event
periodically occurs. It makes no difference where in Locale II, the
event is the same.
In the midst of normal activity, whatever it may be, there is a distant
Signal, almost like heraldic trumpets. Everyone takes the Signal calmly,
and with it, everyone stops speaking or whatever he may be doing. It is
the Signal that He (or They) is coming through His Kingdom.
There is no awestruck prostration or falling down on one's knees.
Rather, the attitude is most matter-of-fact It is an occurrence to which
all are accustomed and to comply takes absolute precedence over
everything. There are no exceptions.
At the Signal, each living thing lies down-my impression is on their
backs, bodies arched to expose the abdomen (not the genitals), with head
turned to one side so that one does not see Him as He passes by. The
purpose seems to be to form a living road over which He can travel. I
have gleaned the idea that occasionally He will select someone from this
living bridge, and that person is never seen or heard from again. The
purpose of the abdominal exposure is an expression of faith and complete
submissiveness, the abdomen being the most vulnerable part of the body
or the area that can suffer damage most easily. There is no movement,
not even thought, as He passes by. Everything has come to a momentary
standstill, full and complete, while He passes.

This is not an experience that I have had instead I have had many experiences of communicating with the major masters of the world as a peer, no doormat for me.

To me, it was a place or condition of pure peace, yet exquisite emotion.
It was as if you were floating in warm soft clouds where there is no up
or down, where nothing exists as a separate piece of matter. The warmth
is not merely around you, it is of you and through you. Your perception
is dazzled and overwhelmed by the Perfect Environment.
The cloud in which you float is swept by rays of light in shapes and
hues that are constantly changing, and each is good as you bathe in them
as they pass over you. Ruby-red rays of light, or something beyond what
we know as light, because no light ever felt this meaningful. All the
colors of the spectrum come and go constantly, never harshly, and each
brings a different soothing or restful happiness. It is as if you are
within and a part of the clouds surrounding an eternally glowing sunset,
and with every changing pattern of living color, you also change. You
respond and drink into you the eternity of the blues, yellows, greens,
and reds, and the complexities of the intermediates. All are familiar to
you. This is where you belong. This is Home.

As you move slowly and effortlessly through the cloud, there is music
around you. It is not something of which you become aware. It is there
all the time, and you vibrate in harmony with the Music. Again, this is
more than the music you knew back there. It is only those harmonies, the
delicate and dynamic melodic passages, the multivoiced counterpoint, the
poignant overtones-it is only those that have evoked in you the deep,
incoherent emotion back there. The mundane is missing. Choirs of humansounding
voices echo in wordless song. Infinite patterns of strings in
all shades of subtle harmony interweave in cyclical yet developing
themes, and you resonate with them. There is no source from which the
Music comes. It is there, all around you, in you, you are a part of it,
and it is you.

It is the purity of a truth of which you have had only a glimpse. This
is the feast, and the tiny tidbits you tasted before, back there, had
made you hope for the existence of the Whole. The nameless emotion,
longing, nostalgia, sense of destiny that you felt back there when you
stared at the cloud-layered sunset in Hawaii, when you stood quietly
among the tall, waving trees in the silent forest, when a musical
selection, passage, or song recalled memories of the past or brought
forth a longing for which there was no associated memory, when you
longed for the place where you belonged, whether city, town, country,
nation, or family-these are now fulfilled. You are Home. You are where
you belong. Where you always should have been.

Most important, you are not alone. With you, beside you, interlocked in
you are others. They do not have names, nor are you aware of them as
shapes, but you know them and you are bonded to them with a great single
knowledge. They are exactly like you, they are you, and like you, they
are Home. You feel with them, like gentle waves of electricity passing
between you, a completeness of love, of which all the facets you have
experienced are but segments and incomplete portions. Only here, the
emotion is without need of intense display or demonstration. You give
and receive as an automatic action, with no deliberate effort. It is not
something you need or that needs you. The "reaching out" is gone. The
interchange flows naturally. You are unaware of differences in sex, you
yourself as a part of the whole are both male and female, positive and
negative, electron and proton. Man-woman love moves to you and from you,
parent-child-sibling-idol and idyll and ideal-all interplay in soft
waves about you, in you, and through you. You are in perfect balance
because you are where you belong. You are Home.

Within all of this, yet not a part of it, you are aware of the source of
the entire span of your experience, of you, of the vastness beyond your
ability to perceive and/or imagine. Here, you know and easily accept the
existence of the Father. Your true Father. The Father, the Creator of
all that is or was. You are one of His countless creations. How or why,
you do not know. This is not important. You are happy simply because you
are in your Right Place, where you truly belong.

Each of the three times I went There, I did not return voluntarily. I
came back sadly, reluctantly. Someone helped me return. Each time after
I returned, I suffered intense nostalgia and loneliness for days. I felt
as an alien might among strangers in a land where things were not
"right," where everything and everyone was so different and so "wrong"
when compared with where you belonged. Acute loneliness, nostalgia, and
something akin to homesickness. So great was it that I have not tried to
go There again.

I have had this experience many times.  It is what I call heaven, but there are domains much higher and more blissful than this.

9/9/60 Night
I was lying in a north-south position, when I suddenly felt bathed in
and transfixed by a very powerful beam that seemed to come from the
north, about 30° above the horizon. I was completely powerless, with no
will of my own, and I felt as if I were in the presence of a very strong
force-in personal contact with it.
It had intelligence of a form beyond my comprehension, and it came
directly (down the beam?) into my head, and seemed to be searching every
memory in my mind. 1 was truly frightened because I was powerless to do
anything about this intrusion,
This intelligence force entered my head just above the forehead, and
offered no calming thoughts or words. It didn't seem to be aware of any
of my feelings or emotions. It was looking impersonally, hurriedly, and
definitely for something specific in my mind. After a while (perhaps
only moments) it left, and I "reintegrated," arose, shaken, and went
outside for some fresh air.

9/16/60 Night
The same impersonal probing, the same power, from the same angle.
However, this time I received the firm impression that I was
inextricably bound by loyalty to this intelligence force, always had
been, and that I had a job to perform here on earth. The job was not
necessarily to my liking, but 1 was assigned to it. The impression was
that I was manning a "pumping station," that it was a dirty, ordinary
job but it was mine and I was stuck with it, and nothing, absolutely
nothing could alter the situation.

I got the impression of huge pipes, so ancient they were covered with
undergrowth and rust. Something like oil was passing through them, but
it was much higher in energy than oil, and vitally needed and valuable
elsewhere (assumption: not on this material planet) . This has been
going on for aeons of time, and there were other force groups here,
taking out the same material on some highly competitive basis, and the
material was convertible at some distant point or civilization for
something very valuable to entities far above my ability to understand.
Again, the intelligence force moved out and away quickly, and the
visitation ended. I got up after a bit, feeling depressed, and went into
the bathroom in our house, and actually felt I should wash my hands
after working (although my hands were clean).

And I wanted to bring this account up from near the end of Monroe's book as a follow up to my earlier post.

These journal entries here are accompanied with a whole parable in which Monroe explains earth as an "experiment" gone awry; that cold alien intelligences observe us like rats in a maze; and that they are using us for some other purpose.

What Monroe describes here is consistent with the Gurdjieff idea we are "food for the moon" or that the earth is some sort of energy farm being exploited by alien intelligences.

I find it interesting most of Monroe's alien encounters seem to have taken place early in his OOB experiences.

I am mostly basing this off Jeff's conclusions which he has written over the years like:

The fact that he invokes the concept of alien abduction, verses the OOBE, I find his work tainted.  I would prefer to see him recognize that he had an OOBE, if he did.

there are a fair number of people who have near death experiences who experience an OOBE, and some people randomly experience OOBEs during sleep, and as Luke mentioned the OOBE is often mistaken for an alien abduction.

I have examined a number of UFO abduction stories and they all read like classic OOBEs.

it is very unlikely that space aliens have come here from a planet far-far-away.

While I have had many encounters with apparent high tech cultures and apparent space aliens while in an OOBE; nonetheless most of those high tech cultures were not evident when space probes were sent to those planets.  Thus, it is my conclusion that the space alien premise is the product of misunderstanding various phenomena.

My documentation here is an effort to show that these natural phenomena are either misinterpreted OOBEs, or experimental air and space research vehicles, and/or misunderstood natural phenomena, such as mirages.

The immaterial domains, and the OOBE are commonly misinterpreted.  Misinterpreted phenomena on the immaterial domains is a product of people who are: dreaming, or dead, or in an OOBE, who collectively create a domain in the immaterial (spirit) world, where an apparent high tech culture exists, but it is simply a collective fabrication of the mind (delusion).

So, it seems that Monroe and Gurdjieff may have both been mistaken in this regard, misunderstanding delusions in the collective unconscious as bona fide aliens. It seems the OOB writer I read last week (who wrote about astral projecting secret service agents, "greys," etc) might share this delusion. But, I am just evaluating it as best I can.

Yes, I agree here, I too have had many OOBEs that involved technology, and space aliens.  I came to realize that this is just another delusional realm, and quite far below the deepest/highest levels of the immaterial domains.

[Alexander]

Very interesting thoughts. Thank you, Jeff, and I hope your body is not causing you too much pain.

[Jhanananda]

Very interesting thoughts. Thank you, Jeff, and I hope your body is not causing you too much pain.

Thanks, Alexander, for posting your kind thoughts.  I am not in so much pain, it is just realizing my limits here.  I have become a bubble-boy here; because it becomes life-threatening to leave a HEPA filtered environment.  Now I finally have a way to continue this work while in a HEPA filtered environment; thanks to supporters of the GWV.  I will keep catching up on dialog here until I am fully updated.

[Jhanananda]

The experiments begin.

1. As of now, no progress on a meditation induced OOBE. Some theories on why this may be:
(1) Duration. It simply requires a very long session in order to induce. The theory here would state session length must be increased to reach the OOBE. Even with this young body, it is hard to sit upright for more than 1 hour. Even lying down in bed motionless for over 90 minutes is difficult.

It is looking like you are trying too hard.  Do keep in mind that Islam means to 'submit,' with the implication that one is submitting to god, or what we would call here 'samadhi.'  This is where I find Islam, and Mohamed were right on. Thus, now making your primary goal deep relaxation.

(2) Vibrational state. Monroe writes that through relaxing deeply, he induces what he calls a "vibrational state" in which he can feel oscillating waves spreading throughout the body. I have not experienced this. Though I have experienced a "tingling" or other sensations I would be just as willing to attribute these to imagination. The theory here would state that persistent practice would eventually result in the "vibrational state" leading to further progress.

It is my hypothesis that many of the so-called 'charisms' might just be natural physiological phenomena that generally lies below our awareness level until we take up a fruitful contemplative life.  Thus, the so-called "vibrational state," which is reported by most mystics, is becoming so sensitive that we can actually 'feel' the oscillations of the nervous system.  And, it is the arising of such charisms that precede the OOBE. 

Since it appears that you have arrived firmly in the 2nd jhana, then your goal should not be jumping ahead 2 levels of spiritual experience, and put your attention upon developing the 3rd jhana.  The third jhana is where many of the charisms arise.  So, charismatic hearing should also arise here.  The third jhana is where we also develop a deeper level of tranquility, which is called 'equanimity.'  So, keep practicing.

(3) Need for a "first" OOBE. Many of the accounts I read of these OOB writers describe an initial first experience which was not anticipated; in many cases it came as a total accident or surprise. After this, OOBEs occurred at regular intervals whether desired or not. If this is the case the theory would follow that a first OOB experience must be provoked in some way through much effort and trial and error, and that the experience would naturally follow in further attempts from there.

Interesting hypothesis.  Yes, I too had early OOBEs, as early as my childhood.  However, my explanation for this is people who manifest chrisms at an early age without having engaged in a contemplative life might be reincarnated mystics at some level or another.

(4) The "phase 2" of sleep theory. I mentioned this one earlier. As of now this is the one I am leaning furthest towards. This is mostly a product of my many long hours of meditation with no extraordinary experiences. It just seems there is some nuance about consciousness or the like that I am missing. But, further investigation is required.

What made OOBEs a nightly occurrence for me was developing lucid dreaming.  Getting lucidity in the sleep state started with me taking up a contemplative life, and developing moment to moment here and now awareness; then working on lucid dreaming techniques, which for me was just programming myself before sleep that I would awake after each dream, then I recorded each dream.  In about a week or 2 I had my first controlled, and fully aware OOBE.

(5) Attention level. One of the OOB writers I read mentioned there is a "happy medium" required for the attention to induce the OOBE. He said it is neither a state of complete focus nor one of daydreaming sleepiness. There is a state in between these that, when maintained, results in the OOBE. If there is anything to this this theory would likely state I am too attentive, and the concentration should wander for it to work. Not sure about this one and it contradicts all the traditional experience I have had with meditation.

The problem that I have with most OOBE writers is they do not often get the connection between consistent OOBE experiences and leading a rigorous, self-aware, contemplative life.  Thus, I disagree with the OOBE writers here.

2. Only two entries worth recounting from the dream log.
4/29 Dreamed about standing up, walking out of bed, and writing an entry in the dream log. A "false awakening."

5/2 An interesting one here. Happened to drink quite a lot of fluid before sleeping. Usually go to the bathroom before trying to sleep to avoid having to wake up in the middle of the night. I did so, however my bladder awoke me around 2 or 3 AM to use the bathroom anyway. Went back to sleep; used it as an opportunity for what OOB writers call a "wake back to bed." However, I was unable to stay motionless on my back. I was extremely agitated and restless trying to maintain a straight position on my back. I recall rolling onto my side, the body slightly curved in this posture that way. This was easier to maintain.

From here I have a memory of me raising my hand up and away from my physical hand. I then have a brief memory of moving slightly forward into the room. The reason I recount this as perhaps not being a dream was the sense of doing this in my normal consciousness. Perception and understanding were present in what I remember (these two factors are absent in dreams). At this point (it was only a very brief few moments) I paused and attempted to comprehend what was happening. This invoked thinking. Upon this the experience ended.

The experience above may entirely have been a dream; I do not know. I made a note of it in the log either way.

These sound like possible brief OOBEs.  Good work, and keep going.

[Alexander]

Thank you, Jeff, for the very interesting thoughts. Yes, for some reason I have felt compelled to pursue the OOBE now, and also to recount my experiences here. I generally look to your thoughts and to my Inner Director for guidance. So, my Inner Director is the one encouraging this and compelling me to record these things here; I try not to write unless I feel the inner "push" to do so.

It is my hypothesis that many of the so-called 'charisms' might just be natural physiological phenomena that generally lies below our awareness level until we take up a fruitful contemplative life.

I find this a very interesting idea. If I recount some of the "charisms" I have experienced, such as the "inner sound" (tinnitus), the "vibrations" (feeling the nervous system), "inner heat" (warmth in the chest), and so on, they might be attributed to physical phenomena that we are simply becoming more sensitive to. One interesting point I read recently was a writer discounting the visions of orbs and light (I have not experienced these), and disembodied sounds, as hallucinatory phenomena, which would be in accord with this idea.

Since it appears that you have arrived firmly in the 2nd jhana, then your goal should not be jumping ahead 2 levels of spiritual experience, and put your attention upon developing the 3rd jhana.  The third jhana is where many of the charisms arise.  So, charismatic hearing should also arise here.  The third jhana is where we also develop a deeper level of tranquility, which is called 'equanimity.'  So, keep practicing.

This is an interesting question, and one which I in humility have attempted to discern. The first jhana (self-arising joy) and second jhana (the still mind) are very clearly definable, while the third and fourth are less clear. If the third is defined by equanimity, the long martyrdom (we are venturing into Christian mysticism here...) I experienced over the preceding years is unambiguous training in the perfection of this attribute. The fourth jhana I am less clear on; the Pali definition is "no pleasure and no pain." The transition state to the OOBE involves viriya (the vibrations in the body?), which are affirmed by Monroe.

Interesting hypothesis.  Yes, I too had early OOBEs, as early as my childhood.  However, my explanation for this is people who manifest chrisms at an early age without having engaged in a contemplative life might be reincarnated mystics at some level or another.

Yes, I was rereading your biography on this recently and trying to get a better sense of it. You have followed a very different path than me. You had these OOBEs starting from a very young age. Having these from the beginning would likely make the whole experience with meditation very different.