Author Topic: Rougeleader (beginner)  (Read 59832 times)

Jhanananda

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2014, 12:46:03 PM »
I look forward to reading more from: Jhanon, Rougeleader, Alexander, and others here.
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rougeleader115

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2014, 03:39:15 PM »
Hello Jhanon! I was worried since I have not seen a post from you in a few months. I thank you for the congratulation, and I would love to see an update on your experiences or your situation for that matter if that is at all possible. As for the dreams, though they have been becoming more lucid, I still have not had the awareness to realize I am in a dream. But I assume that will come with more time or if I increase my meditation practice, I'm still working on building my courage to take the dive. It feels like constant discoveries so far, and most of them have been far beyond what I thought we could explore.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 04:00:35 PM by rougeleader115 »

Jhanon

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2014, 03:59:53 AM »
Hello Jhanon! I was worried since I have not seen a post from you in a few months. I thank you for the congratulation, and I would love to see an update on your experiences or your situation for that matter if that is at all possible. As for the dreams, though they have been becoming more lucid, I still have not had the awareness to realize I am in a dream. But I assume that will come with more time or if I increase my meditation practice, I'm still working on building my courage to take the dive. It feels like constant discoveries so far, and most of them have been far beyond what I thought we could explore.

Far beyond what you thought we could explore? My, my! That does sound exciting. I have made a few posts which I have deemed highest priority or were easily done. Anything more than that I'm afraid won't be so interesting. However, it will be good for to me note that since giving medication a shot for the first time in a decade, I am feeling much stronger and empowered. It's been a beautiful experience, despite the life circumstance. Perhaps I will update more thoroughly tonight, if I can convince myself that I'll be up too late. I'm trying to get back into a "rise and set with the sun" sleep schedule, but it seems life is against me on that.

I am very sorry for not being around. I assure it has been for good reason.

rougeleader115

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2014, 09:27:20 PM »

Far beyond what you thought we could explore? My, my! That does sound exciting.


Yes I am coming from not believing in chakras, stigmata, and many other religious things. To find out that I can feel the chakras like physical entities inside of me, feeling an aura around my whole body, having extremely lucid dreams, and knowing to that this is still the beginning. It has brought such a refreshing side to my life that I feel like dropping to my knees in tears. After hating so much of the things I have had to do in this lifetime, this is one thing that I have felt that I so badly want to keep close to my heart. The charisms have been strong (for me) but yet subtle at the same time. The charisms have felt more like the sacred to me lately, it is a place that when I am so hurt and confused, I can give myself up to the bliss and it feels like an angel picking me up to embrace me and allow me to let my pain go. I am still working to adjust my worldly life so that it is not so stressful, so that I may more fully enjoy these charisms that have been a blessing in disguise for me. I spent nearly a year so afraid of the bliss, but it is finally starting to feel better.

Just wanting to say that I have not been having such stressful dreams lately. I even saw some friends that I have not seen in years last night, and held hands with two of them letting them know how much I loved them for being good to me while I knew them. Made me wake up wanting to cry, but in a good way. I had not let myself ever tell them how I felt in real life, so it felt relieving to even though I never had intention of doing so. I understand that it might not have even been real, but the feelings I felt were.


Sam Lim

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2014, 10:30:33 AM »
Glad you are feeling better.

Jhanon

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2014, 05:37:29 AM »

Far beyond what you thought we could explore? My, my! That does sound exciting.


Yes I am coming from not believing in chakras, stigmata, and many other religious things. To find out that I can feel the chakras like physical entities inside of me, feeling an aura around my whole body, having extremely lucid dreams, and knowing to that this is still the beginning. It has brought such a refreshing side to my life that I feel like dropping to my knees in tears. After hating so much of the things I have had to do in this lifetime, this is one thing that I have felt that I so badly want to keep close to my heart. The charisms have been strong (for me) but yet subtle at the same time. The charisms have felt more like the sacred to me lately, it is a place that when I am so hurt and confused, I can give myself up to the bliss and it feels like an angel picking me up to embrace me and allow me to let my pain go. I am still working to adjust my worldly life so that it is not so stressful, so that I may more fully enjoy these charisms that have been a blessing in disguise for me. I spent nearly a year so afraid of the bliss, but it is finally starting to feel better.

Just wanting to say that I have not been having such stressful dreams lately. I even saw some friends that I have not seen in years last night, and held hands with two of them letting them know how much I loved them for being good to me while I knew them. Made me wake up wanting to cry, but in a good way. I had not let myself ever tell them how I felt in real life, so it felt relieving to even though I never had intention of doing so. I understand that it might not have even been real, but the feelings I felt were.

Well, you don't have to believe in any of it now. I've found it much more beneficial to rely on our experience, critical thinking, and direct knowing (insight).

Cal, a new member I mentioned in other posts, is in a similar position to where you were a year ago. It would be most appreciated, and probably make you feel good, if you were to lend your new perspective to his thread here:

http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,768.0.html

I'm glad to hear about your dreams. I've had similar ones which I posted recently. The release it gives feels so good. There is one friend in particular, who died when I was young, who I would love to "see" again. Ever since she died, I've yearned to embrace her just once more, and let her know how I felt and feel. Based on my recent experiences in jhana, it appears that this is doable.

So far, I've yet to experience anything in 3rd and 4th jhana which suggests we cannot manifest whatever we like with such a strong mind. By that, I mean knowledge; "Where is my friend now?" or "Is there really past lives?" and you get the answer in the form of a vision, or "knowing". How tremendous that we never talk about that specifically on here. I've never seen anyone on here say "Yeah, once you get to 4th jhana in a meditation session, you can know or experience anything you want."

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2014, 04:59:34 PM »
Jhanon there is a section of Patanjali which you just made me think of. I think it is the section on Vibhutis.

Patanjali says something like, "by applying samyama to X, Y, Z... knowledge can be obtained." The X, Y, and Z are a long list of things, which he says you can gain occult knowledge about.

Keep in mind I am thinking of my Iyengar translation, which I feel translated that section right. But I have never found a 100% satisfactory translation of the Yoga Sutras. There is a lot about it I still don't understand.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 05:38:20 PM by Alexander »
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rougeleader115

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2014, 12:55:18 AM »
Hello once again everyone,


I have been trying to get this message typed up for at least a month now. Life has me by the balls and is squeezing tighter by the day. I started my first job a month ago now, and it is wearing down what little sanity I have. This with the expectations of all of my relationships, family, friends, and pretty much anyone I associate with. I do not know how to manage not having a quiet home to come to, or having to work(which I easily hate as much as school). I started work to escape from my current dwelling due to excessive noise, a baby, and little space. I am mostly confined to my room or else I am battered by what feels like the craziness everyone is okay with. I have a handful of friends, and they barely understand me, as goes for my family. The bitter loneliness of my life is really making my heart ache and my mind deteriorate. I am considered crazy/odd because I am the only one at work that sometimes just needs to eat lunch alone or sit quietly. Not wanting to speak much does not help with that either. I say and do as I need to, but it seems it is never enough. I constantly wonder how this world is the way it is, how we work so hard at such a horrible wage, and are supposed to be able to live in a house, buy food, pay for a car, entertainment(or at least internet). And thats praying theres no major upset (such as medical or car problems). Whats the point in having a savings account if I must spend every penny just to sustain myself(not every penny of course, but come on!).

Dealing with people is driving me insane, and seeing that most things and people are just as fucked up and slightly worse than I figured and it does not help. I know none of this is news to you all here, but when I try to voice it to those at work or in my personal life, I get blank stares or a  "you really have no right to feel that way""your too young to feel that way". BUT I DONT CARE. If I could ignore it, I surely would. But its so blatantly thrown in my face every single day that it is just impossible. Maybe with time it will get better, but it has been at least 6 years in the dumps about it all, and I just dont know how to take it. I oscillate between being able to kinda handle it all, to being suicidal and so done with it all, even though I don't want to give up my life. I guess the main reason it bothers me is just that everyone seems to do it without a care, and they expect me too as well. Some of them hear/feel me when I say these things, but majority do not. But all these things have just pushed me to a point where I can barely love myself, because I cannot meet almost any of these constant expectations like being a good son, worker, partner, friend. I feel like I love them and want to benefit people, but I at the same time dont have the capacity for it all, and so badly want to spend more time exploring what jhana has to offer.

^Sorry for the vent you guys, you all are the only ones I feel I could let loose to without being seen as a nut or angry child(which I mean I kinda am regardless haha).

Anyway, the main reason I got on hear was to say that I finally had my first OOBE/totally lucid dream. I awoke in a hotel and went down the stairs past the clerk. As I got to the entrance, the clerk called to me and tossed what looked like a name tag with a large golden needle point straight out of the back. It went high into the air almost touching the ceiling and then arched perfectly over what must have been at least 15ft and pinned itself perfectly to my shirt without piercing me. I looked right at him and thought "thats impossible, I must be dreaming" and boom, I was completely aware that it was all a dream. I looked back up to see the clerk was now a demon and very angry that I was aware of the dream. I flew out of the side of the building, right through the wall! I floated around to the entrance and looked at him again. then I stuck my arms and head through the glass doors. It was just so mind boggling to me to be able to pass through things and feel a sensation as if I were actually moving through matter as energy. Just to add, right when I noticed I was in a dream, my body felt light, energetic and blissful instead of dense like moments before and daily life. But it ended with the demon ordering the undead in the city to attack me. He also sent a kind of psychic wave of his face at me, and once it wrapped around me I could no longer fly like I was. The undead surrounded me and rip me to pieces rather quickly. Luckily my awareness switched to a 3rd person view just as they grabbed me and I did not have to experience it happening directly.

Since I wont make it to the other posts I have seen, I'll say it here with the hopes you guys will see it. Aaron, Zack, Cal, I am happy to see you guys here on the forum, I hope you find some form of relief finding a place like this to ask questions and vent haha. There is plenty to learn and gain inspiration from and I am forever grateful to have stumbled upon the works of Jhanananda. Till next time, I hope you all stay well.

Cal

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2014, 01:34:04 AM »
Thanks for the welcome, Rougeleader115, and welcome back  ;). Ive also had experiences with Lucid dreams. In the past, they kicked my ass. I've spent quite awhile trying to figure out the sub set of thoughts that led to demons, and other entities appearing in my dreams. Honestly, a part of me truly believes that we are of the end times, and that some of it may be a reality not too far off. I've also had to deal with those suckers in OOBE's, as well.

I feel your pain, man. The world is a place of insatiable expectation. Those of us who don't see the point to it are often outcast. I think that is why solitude suits us, its easy, simple. For me, I am more than content passing the time, with no goal in sight, studying the Dhamma, and reading the stories/experiences of other Mystics. Yet, there is a sliver of me that truly wants to help those who are lost.

Cheers, welcome back  8)

Jhanon

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2014, 04:27:53 AM »
Hey, buddy. I'm glad you took the time to post this. You'll see why.

I have been trying to get this message typed up for at least a month now. Life has me by the balls and is squeezing tighter by the day. I started my first job a month ago now, and it is wearing down what little sanity I have.

This is also how it is for me with most jobs, and is why I am pursuing a very unusual solution and life. So far, it's coming to fruition, slowly. Which is a shock, as no past pursuits (outside of samadhi) have been fruitful or successful.

This with the expectations of all of my relationships, family, friends, and pretty much anyone I associate with. I do not know how to manage not having a quiet home to come to, or having to work(which I easily hate as much as school).

Ditto-Ha! When my companion and I first began seeing each other, we made an agreement with each other that I can never be grateful enough for. It was "no expectations." We just want to love each other, and be loved. We're fairly intelligent, and I think we knew it was the most important ingredient. A strange way to start a relationship, don't you think? And guess what--our relationship is STRONG. And I mean STRONG. Two years in and things are still getting better. Our parents are even following our example. Fancy that. And with all of my other relations I hold steadfast "no expectations." It's amazing how much forgiveness, acceptance and love can heal others.

The first 8 years of my life I hated work, too. But about two years ago I began to realize how to peacefully navigate my way through most common social environments. Since then, work has become part of the practice of the N8P, and so when I do work, I smile most of the day. The only problem I have now is co-workers that are repelled by my peaceful and equanimous nature.

I started work to escape from my current dwelling due to excessive noise, a baby, and little space. I am mostly confined to my room or else I am battered by what feels like the craziness everyone is okay with.

Headphones will become your best friend until such a day that you can live in more peaceful arrangements. I currently live in a similar situation, but I make it work. Creative solutions will go a long way toward deepening your practice and improving your daily life. Basically turning it all into practice. But, in the beginning, these are tough things to learn--in my experience.

I have a handful of friends, and they barely understand me, as goes for my family. The bitter loneliness of my life is really making my heart ache and my mind deteriorate. I am considered crazy/odd because I am the only one at work that sometimes just needs to eat lunch alone or sit quietly. Not wanting to speak much does not help with that either.

You'll find ways to mediate these obstacles in a way that is pleasing and fulfilling. A lot of it is patient endurance.

I say and do as I need to, but it seems it is never enough. I constantly wonder how this world is the way it is, how we work so hard at such a horrible wage, and are supposed to be able to live in a house, buy food, pay for a car, entertainment(or at least internet). And thats praying theres no major upset (such as medical or car problems). Whats the point in having a savings account if I must spend every penny just to sustain myself(not every penny of course, but come on!).

Learning to minimize our needs goes a long ways in this regard. For example, I only have to do laundry once every two weeks--and it's only 2 loads. And yet I don't stink or wear dirty clothes. I eat mostly fruit, nuts and seeds. This cuts down on dishes, time and food cost. There's are just some examples. The insight and abilities you develop through your practice will take care of this for you.

Dealing with people is driving me insane, and seeing that most things and people are just as fucked up and slightly worse than I figured and it does not help. I know none of this is news to you all here, but when I try to voice it to those at work or in my personal life, I get blank stares or a  "you really have no right to feel that way""your too young to feel that way". BUT I DONT CARE. If I could ignore it, I surely would. But its so blatantly thrown in my face every single day that it is just impossible. Maybe with time it will get better, but it has been at least 6 years in the dumps about it all, and I just dont know how to take it. I oscillate between being able to kinda handle it all, to being suicidal and so done with it all, even though I don't want to give up my life. I guess the main reason it bothers me is just that everyone seems to do it without a care, and they expect me too as well. Some of them hear/feel me when I say these things, but majority do not. But all these things have just pushed me to a point where I can barely love myself, because I cannot meet almost any of these constant expectations like being a good son, worker, partner, friend. I feel like I love them and want to benefit people, but I at the same time dont have the capacity for it all, and so badly want to spend more time exploring what jhana has to offer.

No expectations. You have your own path, and you know the fruits it offers. People are not going to understand you for a while. But it IS possible to mediate this.

I've oscillated as you have with suicide, and had a few close calls in the past. I soon learned to utilize my suicidal thoughts as fuel for my practice. Since then, I've not had any suicidal thoughts. Almost two years now.

^Sorry for the vent you guys, you all are the only ones I feel I could let loose to without being seen as a nut or angry child(which I mean I kinda am regardless haha).

You're free to vent, of course. But we're also free to offer support. It's a double-edged sword ^_<

You're going to be okay. Channel the frustration into your practice. Everything that sucks--just let it drive you to absorb in the non-physical senses, the charisms, in that very moment. Even the smallest irritation in daily life reminds us we are not with the charisms. And so we return to them--even if we're busy at work. It can, in this way, become your refuge, whenever you need it.

Anyway, the main reason I got on hear was to say that I finally had my first OOBE/totally lucid dream. I awoke in a hotel and went down the stairs past the clerk. As I got to the entrance, the clerk called to me and tossed what looked like a name tag with a large golden needle point straight out of the back. It went high into the air almost touching the ceiling and then arched perfectly over what must have been at least 15ft and pinned itself perfectly to my shirt without piercing me. I looked right at him and thought "thats impossible, I must be dreaming" and boom, I was completely aware that it was all a dream. I looked back up to see the clerk was now a demon and very angry that I was aware of the dream. I flew out of the side of the building, right through the wall! I floated around to the entrance and looked at him again. then I stuck my arms and head through the glass doors. It was just so mind boggling to me to be able to pass through things and feel a sensation as if I were actually moving through matter as energy. Just to add, right when I noticed I was in a dream, my body felt light, energetic and blissful instead of dense like moments before and daily life. But it ended with the demon ordering the undead in the city to attack me. He also sent a kind of psychic wave of his face at me, and once it wrapped around me I could no longer fly like I was. The undead surrounded me and rip me to pieces rather quickly. Luckily my awareness switched to a 3rd person view just as they grabbed me and I did not have to experience it happening directly.

I have also had lucid dreams very similar to this. I have read somewhere on here that St. John of the Cross believed dreams were the efforts of demons to corrupt us. He wasn't referring to OOBE's, even though lucid dreams are technically OOBE's.

The distinction, in my experience, is that we enter a dream without lucidity. The dream world is created for us, and soon afterward we can gain lucidity. But with a classic OOBE, there is lucidity from the very moment of leaving the body. The former he, St. John, thought to be the work of demons (which in terms of your and my experiences, seems plausible), and the latter was of course, freedom.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 07:55:09 PM by Jhanon »

Jhanananda

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2014, 02:25:50 PM »
Congratulations, rougeleader115, on the direct experience of dhukkha.  I am too surprised that not more people just renounce the insanity of the world, and go forth as a mendicant.

Congratulations also, rougeleader115, in having your first OOBE.  Very good.  Next step is to realize that evil has not control over you in the immaterial domains, that you do not give them give.  You could have just flown up into the heavenly domains when the demon attacked you, and sent the dead after you.
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rougeleader115

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2014, 01:42:03 AM »
Hello everyone,

I wanted to say thank you for the advice and replies, but my life has been to messed up for me. I'm stuck freaking out right now because my significant other of 8 years slept with my best friend. I am so heart broken and I really just need some words of help. I haven't been so worked up and emotionally broken in years and I can barely sit in my own skin to type this. I don't know what else to say but I keep crying and I'm so angry. What do I do? I live with her and I have nowhere to go. How do I process these emotions, there I so much going on inside of me, I don't know where to be in myself. I know some of you have dealt with all kinds of trauma, so I am seeking advice on how to deal with myself so that I can deal with my situation. Feel so lost.

Jhanon

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2014, 01:55:20 AM »
It hurts, and I feel your pain. But fire hurts, too. And yet, if we utilize that fire, we can cook, travel, and learn or do so many other things. In the same way, the suffering you feel right now is like fuel for a spaceship propelling you away from the suffering of human life. When I look back on my life of hardship, I see so much suffering that fueled me to find a solution.

That solution is the mystic's way. And just one experience of meditative ecstasy was more than worth the quarter century I suffered to bring me to it.

Try to see this from the bigger picture. You're looking at one wave, but the ocean is full of waves everywhere--past and future. When you see those waves of suffering everywhere, suddenly the one wave loses its significance a bit. It is then that you can look at this from a desire to transcend it--so that you never have to experience such heartbreak. The solace, the answers, are within you. As my companion always tells me "Always, in every moment, look to learn from what you're experiencing."

I wouldn't focus on the details of this occurrence right now. The more you personalize this occurrence, the more suffering it will cause. You can figure out the logistics of your living situation after you've regained a silent, strong mind. Then you will be ready to make decisions. I think you should find a quiet place to connect with the charisms, and jhana.

Or read some spiritual text, like the Buddha's discourses--and reflect on how his teachings relate to your current situation. That might be best for you at the moment--if you're unable to calm the mind. In many times of feeling lost, out of control, and suffering; reading like this has allowed to completely transcend an otherwise unbearable situation
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 02:35:33 AM by Jhanon »

Jhanananda

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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2014, 07:44:16 PM »
Sorry, rougeleader115, to read about your suffering.  Before reading your message today I had been reflecting upon the nature of physical existence being suffering, or another term that came to mind was 'struggle.'  At the time I reflected upon the fact that all creatures are prey to some other creature.

Now, your girlfriend had sex with your best friend.  There are 2 possible reasons for this that come to mind. 

1] Your best friend must be her friend to, and if you spend a lot of time with him, then she may as well, so there is a likelihood of a high level of familiarity, which could be called 'love' between the two of them, and humans have a lot of trouble not confusing love with sex.

2] If she happens to be angry with you, then this is another common reason why girlfriends, and wives sleep with their boyfriend's/husban's best friend, because it is the way to hurt you the most.

So, I agree with Jhanon's recommendation.  Suffering is inherent in material life, so use it to seek the immaterial life.
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Re: Rougeleader (beginner)
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2014, 08:55:30 PM »
Hello everyone,

I wanted to say thank you for the advice and replies, but my life has been to messed up for me. I'm stuck freaking out right now because my significant other of 8 years slept with my best friend. I am so heart broken and I really just need some words of help. I haven't been so worked up and emotionally broken in years and I can barely sit in my own skin to type this. I don't know what else to say but I keep crying and I'm so angry. What do I do? I live with her and I have nowhere to go. How do I process these emotions, there I so much going on inside of me, I don't know where to be in myself. I know some of you have dealt with all kinds of trauma, so I am seeking advice on how to deal with myself so that I can deal with my situation. Feel so lost.
Forgive your partner. Forgive your best friend. Forgive both of them utterly and completely. Do everything you can to get rid of that anger. It can tear you to pieces. I would practice metta or loving-kindness towards yourself, your partner, and your best friend. The Buddha taught us that there are three unwholesome qualities that the unenlightened are afflicted with, and that is: greed, hatred and delusion. The delusion is that being angry or in a state of hatred is going to solve anything. It will only lead to further suffering. The greed or craving for the things of this world to be permanent and unchanging, which is also delusive, would be in this case your relationship with your beloved partner, is the cause of your suffering. The whole goal of the Noble Eightfold Path is to overcome greed, hatred and delusion.

I think sexual relationships are detrimental to the contemplative path. I think that the only way to relate to a woman is as a friend. If you become attracted to that person, then end the relationship immediately. This is how I practice.

I too am touched by your suffering. I hope things work out for you, Rougeleader.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 09:01:52 PM by Michel »