Jhanon's Meditation and Mystical Experience Records

[Jhanon]

Hi Friends

I will come out and say it right now that for the last two years I've been really enthusiastic and excited about finally finding my way (back) to the contemplative life. I am especially so because of finding the GWV. This is all kind of new to me, and admittedly exciting. And because of that, I apologize if at times if I am "too much". So much has been repressed for so long, and after 20 years of effort to find my way, suddenly everything has come together and come out like a big bang. I know I have a long way to go, still. This post will be long, but it is my sincere hope some will find it helpful, uplifting, comforting, and illuminating.

As a youth, being very happy, energetic, and told I was very intelligent, I was forced at the age of 7 to take Ritalin for "ADHD". This is a significant part of how I found Jhananda and the GWV. I read Michael's blog last week while continuing my 2 year search for credible jhana instruction and he made a comment about how society labels ecstatic individuals as ADHD and medicates them to fit in with the status quo--or something to that effect.

Anyway, I remember at the age of 5 thinking to myself "How can I be sure life isn't some kind of dream, and that everyone and everything else isn't also "me"?" This kind of thinking, my sensitivity, nearly limitless enthusiasm and curiosity is what landed me under this label of ADHD.

Born in a highly dysfunctional family of contemplatives who haven't realized they are contemplatives, and due to the unbalanced state that Ritalin and an inability to fit in with the rest of the herd caused; I gradually spiraled into a deep depression, and was eventually diagnosed with bi-polar depression, and generalized anxiety disorder. I tried to fit in, but what most people were interested in just seemed bland and superficial--something I didn't admit to myself until somewhat recently. This continued to create many other problems as well, such as finding almost no value in what everyone else expected me to do. I was miserable (and often suicidal) from the age of 10 to 25, during which time I spent over 15 years with therapists and psychiatrists, and over 20 different medications (none of which i found effective).

I remember my Mom asked me at 16 what I wanted to be, and at the time I was unaware of meditation, at least on a conscious level. I was also very confused due to repression of most of my early life. After being pressed for an answer, I told her I wanted to be a bum, which in retrospect I know I meant I wanted to become a recluse contemplative...

At 23 I lost my job, my home, my girlfriend, my car, and was trying to get on Social Security Disability so that I could sit and figure everything out (which never happened). Losing everything at 23 was not new to me. Despite how hard I tried with therapy, prescription drugs and alcohol to make worldly life easier, I could never sustain motivation for worldly life, no matter how hard I tried. And so I went through cycles of losing everything. This tends to happen to people diagnosed with "ADHD". And every person I have met like this is also intensely interested in drugs, psychedelics, and/or mystic states.

But this losing everything at 23 was preceded by discovering the teachings of the Buddha. As soon as I read it, despite the fact I could make no sense of it; I KNEW THIS WAS THE WAY OUT. I started to try to meditate, which consisted of me spending 5 minutes trying to get comfortable, and then 3-5 minutes of getting overwhelmed by thoughts and the discomfort of my highly-sensitive senses. I pretty much stopped meditating after a few tries.

I then started using illicit drugs which finally provided some relief. At the age of 26 I began researching the less-discussed forms of healing. Primarily that of psychedelics (can I say that? If not, please feel free to edit). After a few experiences, layers started peeling back. The relief was profound, and suddenly for the first time in over 12 years I began to realize what mattered to me. I spread what I knew to other people with similar difficulties.

I came across a psychedelic forum where some of us members were talking about microdosing. A couple of senior members commented that the others would be better off "tapping into the mind's endogenous psychedelics" through meditation. I did a little bit of research, and saw the link between psychedelics, healing, and meditation. I would then meditate 3-4 times a week for a few months. But a lack of quality study materials and guidance (as I'm sure you've all experienced) caused me to eventually give it up. I continued my psychedelic journey--which did lead to more healing. I began noticing charisms and experiencing kundalini while I listened to music.

Because of the kundalini I listened to music almost non-stop for a year, and it was also very healing. But sometimes I would just experience kundalini and other phenomena during regular moments. I didn't know exactly what it was, but all I knew was it felt amazing. The relief was like opening a gate from which tears of joy flowed often, and I could tell I was healing--this was something important. But there was still some competition between the worldly "young adult" and the ecstatic kid I was at 6 and 7. I tried to utilize this transformation to do worldly things, but another side of me was pulled strongly to meditation and non-physical phenomena. The psychedelic use began to fall away, and I then came across "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle.

I was reading about what he calls the "Inner Body" (a tingling feeling in my hands and feet that I noticed after I finished a few psych journeys), and he was basically walking the reader along in getting in touch with it throughout the body. Then it came to where he instructs the reader to feel it as "one field of energy"; the tingling increased more and more and more, past the limit I thought it would have. I was caught by surprise. My jaw dropped, my mind stopped, and an intensely powerful and blissful kundalini shot down my spin--sending intensifying shockwaves into the energy body vibrations.

My eyes were still open, but I was only seeing light. It was pure ecstasy. Then intuitive insights began to come, faster and faster, and they seemed to magnify the rest of the effects. When it was over, tears of intense relief came. I felt like I had finally returned to the home I didn't realize I had been searching for. Still feeling the kundalini energy in my body, I went downstairs to my friend who had hurt his back and stayed home for the day. Intuitively, I focused on feeling/sending energy from my body into my left hand, then briefly touched his back where it hurt (without letting on to what I was doing or what had happened). He immediately told me that his intense pain strangely disappeared.

It is then that I reflected that a few months ago I had briefly met a person who I somehow knew was special. We had a brief chat, and as I walked away she told me my name (real name) meant "healer". The thought of finding the most powerful way to heal others brought an intense feeling of satisfaction to me. I later healed others with profound success a few other times with other people. Or at least I can't explain their healing otherwise, and I did intentionally make efforts to heal them. I began to connect kundalini with the possibility to heal others.

From that very point I was intent of finding a way to access this whenever I wanted, or even be in that state all day long. I wanted to feel good, and I wanted to heal others. I kept the tactile charism in my awareness all day for 2-3 months, meditated often (with a couple 1st jhana experiences) and I experienced many similar phenomena, but not the super strong kundalini I yearned for. And because of that, I hadn't yet realize I had entered meditative absorption a couple times.

I also watched myself sleep a few times, but was barely aware that it wasn't a dream until I reflected on it later. A few times I also woke up with an intense tactile vibration in my body (which also turned out to be jhana). A couple of those times a milky white light grew to cover my visual field, and I became terrified because I could feel myself somehow being threatened. At the time it seemed some of my identity was going to be destroyed if I continued to place my awareness on the light. I was scared, jumped up and had a couple shots--much to my disappointment immediately afterward.

Then worldly life happened, and I stopped focusing on the charism throughout the day. But I continued to meditate. I spent about a year searching through all the bogus books on meditation, and only a couple brief jhana experiences (again, I wasn't sure it was jhana yet.)

For these last 5 months, I have been considering ordaining, although I couldn't find the confidence to do it because something didn't feel right about the best monasteries I could find. They didn't seem to really know much about jhana or mystical experiences that I had had.

Last week I found out I would have at least a week with minimal obligations in which I determined to meditate and study only. I don't normally do this sort of thing, but I asked in my mind "If I am meant to ordain, please give me a sign this week." I figured, what the hell? What could it hurt. In the back of my mind I wanted jhana as that confirmation. Less than 30 minutes later I came across Michael's blog. That same night I found the GWV. The next day I reviewed the GWV site, asked Jhananda some questions, and that night I attained, beyond a shadow of a doubt, jhana. And since then I have consistently attained it every time I meditate, as well as enjoyed a mild-moderate saturation throughout the day. Needless to say, I have nothing but good things to say so far about Jeffrey and the GWV.

Since then I've learned so much. I finally know where my heart has been (ecstatic contemplation), and I understand so much about my nature that could never make sense before. I felt like I was broken, and that I would never find others like me, but now I know differently. This is just from looking over the videos, essays, listening to the retreat audio, and looking over some of you on the forum. Thanks to meditation, contemplation, and morality, I've left almost all addiction to substances behind.

Meditation Method and the Deepest Jhana

This thread you're reading now is for record of my mystical experiences from this point forward, as I began entering jhana consistently about 5 days ago, thanks to Jeffrey and Michael.

Method
The method I used which brought me to jhana: First I would calm the mind, if it needed it. I did this by body scanning and or watching the breath--both with sensitivity to pleasant feelings. Soon I would notice a tingling in my hands and feet. It took me a little over a year of solid study and experimenting with various techniques to settle on this technique as best. I would focus on the tingling in hands or feet, and if fortunate, it would begin to manifest in my chakras and feet which the calmness of mind necessary would allow my awareness to expand and encompass them as well. The tingling relieves pain in relation to how strong the pain and tingling/vibration is.

But these days I rarely spend time on the breath. I usually end up laying, as I don't fall asleep easily, and my knees/back are still "westernized"--so it's challenging to meditate for long. Although I can see that changing soon due to my recent progress.

So I lay down, and start focusing on the tingling in my hands (and at first only feel the tingling in my feet in background awareness sometimes). The tingling is always at least a little bit there due to consistent and daily jhana experiences, as well as making an effort to keep my awareness focusing on the tingling throughout the day. Just watching it throughout the day, and making it a priority due to it's pleasant benefits, has yielded profound benefits in how i navigate daily life.

It's so fulfilling and relieving just to think about it. I get rushes of light kundalini rushing down my spine radiating throughout my body just thinking of the progress that has finally begun. But this kundalini presently experienced is also aided by the way my heart opens when I listen to some music such as what I am currently listening to as i write http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HED_E1Oy9s . I hope I can learn to tap into the qualities of heart and kundalini more without music and during jhana--because of everything I will describe below,--they are the qualities most subtle, and yet most longed for. The sense of joy i feel in jhana is very subtle, and I believe it is related to this.

Anyway, I keep watch over the "grip" on the tingling both with my primary awareness and background awareness. If any tension arises in the body, I know I am gripping too hard, and will loosen it back up. This also serves to progressively relax the body and mind. As they do, the tingling increases in intensity and begins to manifest in the upper 4 chakras. As the mind/body relaxes, the intensity of the chakras, hands and feet grows to send these tingling vibrations spreading all over the body. Once it becomes a nearly "solid" vibration throughout the body, I have come to currently observe this as a solid 1st jhana.

When I then focus my awareness on my heart, and sincerely think "May all beings be happy" while envisioning as many beings as I can, a strong, comforting warmth, like the purest heavenly opiate, comes on. It seems the more my heart is noble and open, the more warmth I receive (we get what we give?). What has been said so far is what most of my limited experience of jhana is like in varying intensity. However, some have been deeper....

Latest Strong Jhana
Two nights ago I was meditating in bed, which are, in my 4 or 5 days of jhana, the best meditations I have. This was the most strong jhana I have ever had. I will attempt to explain it the best I can.

It began as usual with the tactile tingling charism which grew in strength until it got really strong and I began detecting three different frequencies of extremely strong vibrations emitting from the hands, feet, chakras, and shockwaving throughout the body. The feet and hands were so strong that at points it was almost painful (which I see has been mentioned by others). The top of my head was throbbing, as if there was a hole at the tallest peak of my head that was pumping (maybe feeling the heart?). There was also a relatively moderate sense of warmth throughout the body.

I heard 4 different auditory charisms. Whirring, water falling, ringing, and some kind of distorted rushing sound--all at once. No nose or tongue charisms that I can recall.

Then....and this is the weird and unexpected part; I had a vision of being intimately entertained by a beautiful brunette woman. This wasn't sex, but intuitively I knew it to be intimate (and she wasn't wearing much either). I noticed a powerful ominous woman speaking--although I couldn't quite make out what she was saying because I was caught a little bit off guard by how immersing this was. The voice didn't appear to be coming from the woman in my visual field as it was much louder and was coming from the center of the head.

(I was hesitant to post this for what follows, but Jhananda encouraged me to)Then she touched my knee, and as she did, time progressively slowed to a crawl and then stopped. Suddenly awareness was directed toward the genitalia either by me or by "something", and a sense of anticipation occurred.  Instantly, all the charisms peaked in intensity and frequency and I passed through a progressively bright light that covered all the vision. Then it was over. Suffice it to say, for me this was profound. When I opened my eyes, they were welling up.

It was my intuition afterward that the last part of my awareness being directed and subsequent anticipation was why I lost the jhana--although I had been meditating for about 1.5 hours by that point which is my longest yet.

My initial impression, simply because I can't imagine I would make it past the 1st jhana any time soon; was that it was a very strong first jhana. But now I am starting to question that. Jhana continues to surprise me. Looking back, and observing subsequent meditations, it was at least second jhana, as the mind stuck with it without effort. I think it may have even been third jhana, as I've heard mention that 3rd jhana has many charisms.

Does this sort of thing happen in Jhana? Do "tests" happen in jhana? Which jhana does this seem to be? I never, ever, would expect some kind of sensual vision to appear, especially because my daily mind is not inclined that way.

I hope the weekend is treating you well, friends Please feel free to share your observations.

[Michel]

You had quite the meditation experience. I can't asses any of it since I've only experienced the 1st Jhana, except that it's way beyond the 1st jhana. I experience kundalini energies in my head, never the body like you have, and at times it can be quite intense, but nothing like you describe.

I wonder if it is a good idea to focus on the vision of the woman you experienced? Everything seemed to fall apart at that point. It will be interesting to hear what the boss thinks.

Fascinating experience you had. Thank-you for sharing, I've learned from it.

[Jhanon]

I wonder if it is a good idea to focus on the vision of the woman you experienced? Everything seemed to fall apart at that point. It will be interesting to hear what the boss thinks.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by focus on the vision? You mean in subsequent meditations?

I also would like to see what Jhananda and other senior meditators have to say.

I'm going through your case history currently, Michel, and will comment when I've finished. So far the primary mention would be that the charisms really seem to be a meditators best friend, as I'm sure you've seen in my history.

[Jhanon]

I just meditated on the bed again (although it's not evening yet), and found that keeping the breathing in the background awareness appeared to facilitate relaxing and therefor deepening of the state at a quicker rate. 2nd jhana within 40 minutes--total meditation time 56 minutes.

[Jhanon]

I think I found some of Jhananda's reply already in your case history, Michel:

Jhananda, are you familiar with the case when one is with the breath for about let's say 20-30 minutes, and suddenly one thinks about sexual exciting thoughts, but is still with the breath and then a rush of piti invades the body and "shakes" you a little bit? (the trigger in this case is the sexual thoughts)

Should stuff like this be avoided?

The hypersensitive phase tends to come after the 2nd jhana.  It is characterized by a number of things.  One of those things is the mind seems to get even less controlled, and one can start having out of control sexual fantasies etc.

Then....and this is the weird and unexpected part; I had a vision of being intimately entertained by a beautiful brunette woman. This wasn't sex, but intuitively I knew it to be intimate (and she wasn't wearing much either). I noticed a powerful ominous woman speaking--although I couldn't quite make out what she was saying because I was caught a little bit off guard by how immersing this was. The voice didn't appear to be coming from the woman in my visual field as it was much louder and was coming from the center of the head.

(I was hesitant to post this for what follows, but Jhananda encouraged me to)Then she touched my knee, and as she did, time progressively slowed to a crawl and then stopped. Suddenly awareness was directed toward the genitalia either by me or by "something", and a sense of anticipation occurred. Instantly, all the charisms peaked in intensity and frequency and I passed through a progressively bright light that covered all the vision. Then it was over. Suffice it to say, for me this was profound. When I opened my eyes, they were welling up.

I think it may have even been third jhana, as I've heard mention that 3rd jhana has many charisms.

[Jhanananda]

Meditation Method and the Deepest Jhana

Method
The method I used which brought me to jhana: First I would calm the mind, if it needed it. I did this by body scanning and or watching the breath--both with sensitivity to pleasant feelings. Soon I would notice a tingling in my hands and feet. It took me a little over a year of solid study and experimenting with various techniques to settle on this technique as best. I would focus on the tingling in hands or feet, and if fortunate, it would begin to manifest in my chakras and feet which the calmness of mind necessary would allow my awareness to expand and encompass them as well. The tingling relieves pain in relation to how strong the pain and tingling/vibration is.

But these days I rarely spend time on the breath. I usually end up laying, as I don't fall asleep easily, and my knees/back are still "westernized"--so it's challenging to meditate for long. Although I can see that changing soon due to my recent progress.

So I lay down, and start focusing on the tingling in my hands (and at first only feel the tingling in my feet in background awareness sometimes). The tingling is always at least a little bit there due to consistent and daily jhana experiences, as well as making an effort to keep my awareness focusing on the tingling throughout the day. Just watching it throughout the day, and making it a priority due to it's pleasant benefits, has yielded profound benefits in how i navigate daily life.

It's so fulfilling and relieving just to think about it. I get rushes of light kundalini rushing down my spine radiating throughout my body just thinking of the progress that has finally begun. But this kundalini presently experienced is also aided by the way my heart opens when I listen to some music such as what I am currently listening to as i write http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HED_E1Oy9s . I hope I can learn to tap into the qualities of heart and kundalini more without music and during jhana--because of everything I will describe below,--they are the qualities most subtle, and yet most longed for. The sense of joy i feel in jhana is very subtle, and I believe it is related to this.

Nice music.  I have added it to my collection of favorite contemplative music, but I think it would be 4x better on CD listening to it with studio grade headphones.

Anyway, I keep watch over the "grip" on the tingling both with my primary awareness and background awareness. If any tension arises in the body, I know I am gripping too hard, and will loosen it back up. This also serves to progressively relax the body and mind. As they do, the tingling increases in intensity and begins to manifest in the upper 4 chakras. As the mind/body relaxes, the intensity of the chakras, hands and feet grows to send these tingling vibrations spreading all over the body. Once it becomes a nearly "solid" vibration throughout the body, I have come to currently observe this as a solid 1st jhana.

When I then focus my awareness on my heart, and sincerely think "May all beings be happy" while envisioning as many beings as I can, a strong, comforting warmth, like the purest heavenly opiate, comes on. It seems the more my heart is noble and open, the more warmth I receive (we get what we give?). What has been said so far is what most of my limited experience of jhana is like in varying intensity. However, some have been deeper....

This is very good meditation technique.  It is essentially what I have practiced for 40 years, so keep it up, because I know it will pay off big.  It seems to me that you are ariving more at the 3rd jhana, than the 1st, because the charisms are more typical of the 3rd jhana, and deep relaxation is more typical of the 2nd jhana, and my guess is you have no trouble stilling your mind, which is the 2nd jhana.

Latest Strong Jhana
Two nights ago I was meditating in bed, which are, in my 4 or 5 days of jhana, the best meditations I have. This was the most strong jhana I have ever had. I will attempt to explain it the best I can.

It began as usual with the tactile tingling charism which grew in strength until it got really strong and I began detecting three different frequencies of extremely strong vibrations emitting from the hands, feet, chakras, and shockwaving throughout the body. The feet and hands were so strong that at points it was almost painful (which I see has been mentioned by others). The top of my head was throbbing, as if there was a hole at the tallest peak of my head that was pumping (maybe feeling the heart?). There was also a relatively moderate sense of warmth throughout the body.

I heard 4 different auditory charisms. Whirring, water falling, ringing, and some kind of distorted rushing sound--all at once. No nose or tongue charisms that I can recall.

This is classic 3rd jhana.

Then....and this is the weird and unexpected part; I had a vision of being intimately entertained by a beautiful brunette woman. This wasn't sex, but intuitively I knew it to be intimate (and she wasn't wearing much either). I noticed a powerful ominous woman speaking--although I couldn't quite make out what she was saying because I was caught a little bit off guard by how immersing this was. The voice didn't appear to be coming from the woman in my visual field as it was much louder and was coming from the center of the head.

(I was hesitant to post this for what follows, but Jhananda encouraged me to), Then she touched my knee, and as she did, time progressively slowed to a crawl and then stopped. Suddenly awareness was directed toward the genitalia either by me or by "something", and a sense of anticipation occurred.  Instantly, all the charisms peaked in intensity and frequency and I passed through a progressively bright light that covered all the vision.

At this point you are in the 4th jhana and moving well into the immaterial domains (ayatanas). 

There can be quite some confusions about apparent sexual content in deep meditation.  The reality is if one were to go into the heavenly host (deva loca) one will experience it, as I have, as so intensely blissful as to be orgasmic.  The truth is sex is a very crude physical world counter part to bliss experienced on the spiritual dimension.

This reminds me that the last arahatta in Buddhism was around 1st century BC.  He was shamed by the pretentious priesthood of his time, because somehow they found out he had a wet dream.  The reality is, sometimes a mystic can have such a profoundly blissful experience on the immaterial domains, that the body might have an emission.  Oh well, so what.

Then it was over. Suffice it to say, for me this was profound. When I opened my eyes, they were welling up.

It was my intuition afterward that the last part of my awareness being directed and subsequent anticipation was why I lost the jhana--although I had been meditating for about 1.5 hours by that point which is my longest yet.

My initial impression, simply because I can't imagine I would make it past the 1st jhana any time soon; was that it was a very strong first jhana. But now I am starting to question that. Jhana continues to surprise me. Looking back, and observing subsequent meditations, it was at least second jhana, as the mind stuck with it without effort. I think it may have even been third jhana, as I've heard mention that 3rd jhana has many charisms.

Does this sort of thing happen in Jhana? Do "tests" happen in jhana? Which jhana does this seem to be? I never, ever, would expect some kind of sensual vision to appear, especially because my daily mind is not inclined that way.

I hope the weekend is treating you well, friends Please feel free to share your observations.

You had an encounter with 2 angels (devas) on the immaterial domains (ayatana/5th samadhi).  Take it as a great blessing, and you did no wrong.  If you are diligent, then you will have many more such encounters, and much, much better ones.  Good work, keep it up.

[Jhanon]

Nice music.  I have added it to my collection of favorite contemplative music, but I think it would be 4x better on CD listening to it with studio grade headphones.

I am pleased that you like it, and I agree. I have a Pandora radio station I've been working on for a while that is filled with music of similar style, as it's all I really listen to anymore. It is free (there are short advertisements every song or three), unless you pay for a year membership which is under 50 bucks, has CD quality and I have always found it worth the money. This is how I find all the music I listen to. I will message it to you.

This is very good meditation technique.  It is essentially what I have practiced for 40 years, so keep it up, because I know it will pay off big.  It seems to me that you are ariving more at the 3rd jhana, than the 1st, because the charisms are more typical of the 3rd jhana, and deep relaxation is more typical of the 2nd jhana, and my guess is you have no trouble stilling your mind, which is the 2nd jhana.

I would hope it is good, because I learned it mostly from you! When I read the GWV site essays, it all made perfect sense to me in reflection of my past experiences. I implemented, attained jhana, and then everything began to make sense and fall into place. With the basic building blocks and understanding in place, furthering the practice was much easier. Again, my deepest gratitude for this priceless service you've done me.

This is classic 3rd jhana.

That is fantastic news!

At this point you are in the 4th jhana and moving well into the immaterial domains (ayatanas). 

There can be quite some confusions about apparent sexual content in deep meditation.  The reality is if one were to go into the heavenly host (deva loca) one will experience it, as I have, as so intensely blissful as to be orgasmic.  The truth is sex is a very crude physical world counter part to bliss experienced on the spiritual dimension.

This reminds me that the last arahatta in Buddhism was around 1st century BC.  He was shamed by the pretentious priesthood of his time, because somehow they found out he had a wet dream.  The reality is, sometimes a mystic can have such a profoundly blissful experience on the immaterial domains, that the body might have an emission.  Oh well, so what.

What is deva loca? I don't see any information on Google, although I could look harder.

And yes, I think especially if a mystic is celibate, this increases the likelihood of these experiences and emissions. It saddens me that there seems to be such rampant close-mindedness on this planet. I am not looking down on the people--It's just that there is so much to experience, learn and to enjoy with an open mind.

You had an encounter with 2 angels (devas) on the immaterial domains (ayatana/5th samadhi).  Take it as a great blessing, and you did no wrong.  If you are diligent, then you will have many more such encounters, and much, much better ones.  Good work, keep it up.

What!? And thank you I have read that once one breaks ground with jhana, progress can be swift. But this is far more than I anticipated. Your observation has caused me to comb through the experience again, and some additional details have surfaced that challenge my prior study of the immaterial experience.

1)I remember the experience had a bright white/pink light throughout. Like you would if the mid-day sun was shining on your closed eye -lids.

2)This woman, to the best of my memory, appeared to be just a human woman. I even seem to remember her wearing a black bra. Although I admit I have no idea what a deva looks like, and she was the most beautiful woman I have ever experienced. Everything about her was "perfect" in terms of my preferences in women. This is what initially caused me to think it was a self-made vision, if such a thing exists.

3)I appeared to be in some sort of living room not unlike that of one here on earth. There was a large window behind her, and what seemed to be a couch up against that window. Although because perception relies on comparison and I have no experience of the immaterial, it is possible this is why I seem to remember earthly qualities?

4)I now seem to recall that once I began hearing this ominous voice I actually opened my eyes to check if I was somehow being spoken to in physical plane but couldn't understand it because I was so deep. I seem to recall seeing the room I was meditating in, then closing my eyes again. I could be mistaken that it happened earlier before I had the vision.But, Is this possible while in 5th samadhi?

5) I have read that kundalini (my favorite phenomena so far) occurs in 3rd or 4th jhana, and that it precedes the immaterial attainment. And also that moving from 4th to 5th takes courage to let go of the body, and in my past similar experiences I have been too frightened to do so. Although I do not recall any sense of the body during the Vision(except for opening my eyes briefly) I do not recall any kundalini or fear. Although there was a moment when the charisms were peaking that immediately preceded the vision where I don't recall what happened.

6) I anticipated that entering the immaterial would give me a sense of "Home", but I do not recall this feeling.

I can't be certain about these details because the experience was so unique, but I feel rather certain about most of them. The reason for this fuzziness on details is very possibly related to perception or awareness failing me.

Will you please help me reconcile this?  The thought that these were ACTUAL beings is just awe-some

THANK YOU

[Jhanananda]

I am pleased that you like it, and I agree. I have a Pandora radio station I've been working on for a while that is filled with music of similar style, as it's all I really listen to anymore. It is free (there are short advertisements every song or three), unless you pay for a year membership which is under 50 bucks, has CD quality and I have always found it worth the money. This is how I find all the music I listen to. I will message it to you.

Feel free to post a link to your radio station in Art of the Mystic.  I am sure others here will enjoy your music choices, as I do.

What is deva loca? I don't see any information on Google, although I could look harder.

The Deva Loca, appears throughout Indic literature.  It is variably translated as the deva-plane, deva realm, deva planet, etc.  It is the equivalent to our concept of heaven.

And yes, I think especially if a mystic is celibate, this increases the likelihood of these experiences and emissions. It saddens me that there seems to be such rampant close-mindedness on this planet. I am not looking down on the people--It's just that there is so much to experience, learn and to enjoy with an open mind.

Well, I agree.  What do you call a place where mystics are commonly marginalized, and even martyred?  It would be best called "hell."

What!? And thank you I have read that once one breaks ground with jhana, progress can be swift. But this is far more than I anticipated.

Yes.  This is why the attainment of jhana is called "stream entry," because jhana is the stream.  When one enters the stream there is no going back, and like a current, it will carry one across the torrent, ocean, to the other side.

Your observation has caused me to comb through the experience again, and some additional details have surfaced that challenge my prior study of the immaterial experience.

1)I remember the experience had a bright white/pink light throughout. Like you would if the mid-day sun was shining on your closed eye -lids.

Luminosity is one of the characteristics of deep meditation.  The deeper we go, the brighter it gets.

2)This woman, to the best of my memory, appeared to be just a human woman. I even seem to remember her wearing a black bra. Although I admit I have no idea what a deva looks like, and she was the most beautiful woman I have ever experienced. Everything about her was "perfect" in terms of my preferences in women. This is what initially caused me to think it was a self-made vision, if such a thing exists.

Well, the experience could have been a self-made vision, fantasy; however, the other details did not read like that.  If you were at a deeper/higher point in this encounter, then she would have only been a point of light, and there would have been no gender.  At the lower realms of the immaterial domains there is still some cognitive ability remaining, so it interprets the experience in terms of the creature having the experience.

I have had many such encounters over the 40 years of my contemplative life.  I am reminded of the dream sequences in the movie Brazil.  He becomes obsessed with the woman.  He eventually meets her.  She is nothing like the dream, but he pursues her.  She is a revolutionary, and he lives in an oppressive, authoritarian society, like ours, so he is eventually arrested as a terrorist and tortured to death.

Also, I saw another movie that had similar dream sequences.  I cannot recall the name of the movie, but it is about a studio musician who starts having dreams, like the one you had.  He becomes obsessed with the woman in the dream and eventually sees her on a billboard.  He tracks her down, and gets a date with her, but she is, again, nothing like in his dreams.  The woman is played by Penelope Cruz.

3)I appeared to be in some sort of living room not unlike that of one here on earth. There was a large window behind her, and what seemed to be a couch up against that window. Although because perception relies on comparison and I have no experience of the immaterial, it is possible this is why I seem to remember earthly qualities?

The material plane details are irrelevant.

4)I now seem to recall that once I began hearing this ominous voice I actually opened my eyes to check if I was somehow being spoken to in physical plane but couldn't understand it because I was so deep. I seem to recall seeing the room I was meditating in, then closing my eyes again. I could be mistaken that it happened earlier before I had the vision.But, Is this possible while in 5th samadhi?

It is atypical, but possible.

5) I have read that kundalini (my favorite phenomena so far) occurs in 3rd or 4th jhana, and that it precedes the immaterial attainment. And also that moving from 4th to 5th takes courage to let go of the body, and in my past similar experiences I have been too frightened to do so. Although I do not recall any sense of the body during the Vision(except for opening my eyes briefly) I do not recall any kundalini or fear. Although there was a moment when the charisms were peaking that immediately preceded the vision where I don't recall what happened.

The classic rush of energy typifying the kundalini experience does not always accompany the movement through the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi).  The religious experience (samadhi) can often times be frightening, because we live in a culture that negates these experiences, there is no context for them, or if there is, then the context is associated with demon possession.

6) I anticipated that entering the immaterial would give me a sense of "Home", but I do not recall this feeling.

In the lower realms of the immaterial domains there is more a sense of beauty and power, and love.

I can't be certain about these details because the experience was so unique, but I feel rather certain about most of them. The reason for this fuzziness on details is very possibly related to perception or awareness failing me.

Will you please help me reconcile this?  The thought that these were ACTUAL beings is just awe-some

THANK YOU

The immaterial domains are typically experienced when most of the cognitive processes have come to rest.  So, we have little mental process there to help us out.  It is best to just experience it in its raw details, then journal, and/or analyze it afterwards.  I hope this response helps.

[Jhanon]

Yes, Jhananda, I agree, especially in comparison the the heavenly realms, that this is a hell realm.

It sounds like you think I have attained stream entry?

I don't think that experience was a self-made fantasy. I've been over it many times, and I'm certain it wasn't. IT was too interactive, immersing, and real to be self-made.

Your response was very helpful. Thank you. I'm sorry it took so long for me to respond to it.

I'm a little bit bummed I haven't had anything else to "write home" about lately. I haven't had the best circumstances--but I've been trying to make them.

I am still accessing 1st jhana 100%, 2nd jhana 80%, and 3rd jhana 25-45% of the time. It's mostly coming down to whether I have enough time for a long meditation, or enough alertness to stay fully aware throughout the session.

[Jhanananda]

Yes, Jhananda, I agree, especially in comparison the the heavenly realms, that this is a hell realm.

A place that does not respect its mystics is surely hell.

It sounds like you think I have attained stream entry?

We have to ask ourselves, "What is the stream?"  When we begin to have the religious experience that is the stream.  Since you have begun to have religious experiences, then you are a stream-winner.  Now follow the stream to arahatship.

I don't think that experience was a self-made fantasy. I've been over it many times, and I'm certain it wasn't. IT was too interactive, immersing, and real to be self-made.

Your response was very helpful. Thank you. I'm sorry it took so long for me to respond to it.

It read like a valid religious experience, so I took as such.  I see no reason why not to accept your description as an authentic record of the religious experience.

I'm a little bit bummed I haven't had anything else to "write home" about lately. I haven't had the best circumstances--but I've been trying to make them.

I am still accessing 1st jhana 100%, 2nd jhana 80%, and 3rd jhana 25-45% of the time. It's mostly coming down to whether I have enough time for a long meditation, or enough alertness to stay fully aware throughout the session.

Good to know that you are consistently accessing some of the stages of the religious experience.  A mystic is never satisfied until he or she has completely annahilated oneself in the religious experience.

[Jhanon]

It sounds like you think I have attained stream entry?

We have to ask ourselves, "What is the stream?"  When we begin to have the religious experience that is the stream.  Since you have begun to have religious experiences, then you are a stream-winner.  Now follow the stream to arahatship.

I don't intend to get hung up on this, but I certainly want to take at least one moment to appreciate the accomplishment. I've just realized, that about a year ago, before I really knew what I was doing, and before I had strong confidence it could be done, I vowed I would at least attain stream-entry before I died. I don't often accomplish goals I set out for myself, for various reasons. So it feels good to know I am making progress, and actually exceeding my expectations. Based on your understanding, does this mean I am now safe from the realms below this one, as I believe it states in the suttas?

I do not intend to "kick back" now that I've attained stream entry. I intend to attain to your level

I'm a little bit bummed I haven't had anything else to "write home" about lately. I haven't had the best circumstances--but I've been trying to make them.

I am still accessing 1st jhana 100%, 2nd jhana 80%, and 3rd jhana 25-45% of the time. It's mostly coming down to whether I have enough time for a long meditation, or enough alertness to stay fully aware throughout the session.

Good to know that you are consistently accessing some of the stages of the religious experience.  A mystic is never satisfied until he or she has completely annahilated oneself in the religious experience.

Damn right. If it's true that stream entry means I am at least safe from the realms below this one, and it is certainly true how instrumental your guidance was in attaining it, I wonder how good it must feel to know what you (and the GWV!) have done for me. I wonder if there is a way to review the life of another, like how some NDE's report "life reviews" or "life flashes before my eyes". I can only imagine how satisfying it must be to review all the suffering, and then the liberating moments of attainment. Like a doctor saving a life, and being allowed to witness the suffering leading up the crucial moment of saving. But maybe I'm just romanticizing.

[Jhanananda]

I don't intend to get hung up on this, but I certainly want to take at least one moment to appreciate the accomplishment. I've just realized, that about a year ago, before I really knew what I was doing, and before I had strong confidence it could be done, I vowed I would at least attain stream-entry before I died. I don't often accomplish goals I set out for myself, for various reasons. So it feels good to know I am making progress, and actually exceeding my expectations. Based on your understanding, does this mean I am now safe from the realms below this one, as I believe it states in the suttas?

I do not intend to "kick back" now that I've attained stream entry. I intend to attain to your level

No one has guaranteed safety unless one continues to live the contemplative lifestyle, because it is a lifestyle that produces liberation and enlightenment, not a belief system.

Damn right. If it's true that stream entry means I am at least safe from the realms below this one, and it is certainly true how instrumental your guidance was in attaining it, I wonder how good it must feel to know what you (and the GWV!) have done for me. I wonder if there is a way to review the life of another, like how some NDE's report "life reviews" or "life flashes before my eyes". I can only imagine how satisfying it must be to review all the suffering, and then the liberating moments of attainment. Like a doctor saving a life, and being allowed to witness the suffering leading up the crucial moment of saving. But maybe I'm just romanticizing.

When you begin to recollect your previous lifetimes, then you will not just recall it, but relive the whole lifetime in a moment.  It will most likely blow your mind.  And, just think, you have lots of lifetimes to relive.

[Jhanon]

Been a while since I recorded my meditation efforts. I'm unsure if it was this thread or the blog thread in which I recorded my meditations. I'm just going to move forward, and request it be moved if necessary.

I need to confess I've not meditated very much over the last 6 or so months. I live in an apartment now with youthful non-mystics and their children. When I'm home, I have headphones in my ears most of the time because all the noise and lack of peaceful energy. I am surprised just how unpleasant it is to live with meditation developed senses among those who don't. This has been one of the primary challenges, and a source for my own foul language--lol. Rather than carrying my annoyances, I express them comically via profanity.

Recently I began to gain momentum. A few nights when I laid in bed, I would meditate until my ADHD medication ran out and I fell asleep. One of which I distinctly remember dropping into 4th jhana in what was less than 10 minutes. It was so fast, that I actually was frightened away. It was like a spiritual skydive. It was thrilling and helped me feel as though my development hadn't gotten rusty.

However, in the last couple weeks I've meditated about an hour each day. And these meditations have been less than satisfactory. In the beginning, I yo-yo between 1st and 2nd jhana about 6 or 7 times. Then about 20 mins into this, I drop into 3rd jhana. There is, however, a recurring issue getting in the way that I had difficulty with in the past. And that is my "grip."

It's quite challenging to balance the grip. First I'm noticing body tension from concentrating too hard, and them my mind is wandering to other charism/perspectives. Back and forth like this. Around 50 minutes in, things stabalize at around 3rd jhana. But I can't seem to make progress beyond this. It may be because I only meditate for about an hour or so.

Meditation sessions aren't as enjoyable as they used to be. I think this reflects an overall acclimation to the first 4 jhanas, as that is where most of my meditations are. So, while I do wish to leave my body and enjoy the latter samadhi's, it's still good to know that the earlier jhanas are no longer even slightly intimidating nor cause any anxiety (fight or flight.) This suggests to me that when I do get opportunities to leave my body or experience some of the more dazzling and intense charisms, I will meet them with joy instead of the apprehension of the past.

Getting a good session in is tricky if just considering other tenants traffic and activity alone. I can't just lie still and do my thing. Adjustments have to be made during meditations so as to not destroy the process, but pause it for a moment while I re-optimize those conditions.

I long for astral exploration. For having my mind blown with insight. For blasts of intense ecstasy and bliss. These have not been in my life much since I had that first explosion of progress during initial samadhi establishment upon discovering GWV. I am hoping that renewing meditation as a daily 1.5 hour practice will get me back to those doors I so often peaked through back then.

[Jhanananda]

Good to read from you again, Jhanon.  Life has many ups and downs, and so does the contemplative life, and thus so do the religious experiences.  Those who wish to mediate deeply must organize their life around the contemplative life to make it a full time occupation.  This can be very difficult to work out, and can take many years of investigation.  Good luck with your efforts.

[Jhanon]

Yes, yes--you are correct. I've always struggled with adapting to worldly changes, and whenever a big one happens--like a move, it takes quite some time for my mind to settle down enough to meditate well.

Thanks for the guidance, mast-uh. Oh, I wrote another piece for my Philosophy class. This one is about life after death, and I delved deeper into my personal experiences with mediation to write it. Let me know if you'd like to read it, as it will help me ensure I am representing us accurately.