Jhanon's Meditation and Mystical Experience Records

[Jhanananda]

Good work.  Now the big challenge is to see if you can sit into this level of tranquility and equanimity every time you meditate, and meditate thus several times a day.

[Jhanon]

That's what I've been shooting for since yesterday. So I'm glad to see you confirm my theory that it's possible. Although I find it strange that I've meditated to the depth of 4th jhana many times--but it isn't always this rewarding.

I felt joy in the first, equanimity in second, and then tranquility in the 4th. That is rare. I usually experience charisms like tactile and visual, which is how I know what jhana I am in. But these qualities such as tranquility ARE the classic description of those jhanas. How could I experience all the jhanas (so many times in the past) without any of the emotional qualities like joy? Or at least they are rarely even noticeable.

The other charisms have always been there for the 4 jhanas. But the emotional qualities have almost always been missing, or barely noticeable. I think...it means my awareness always rested on the charisms, but rarely the emotional charisms/qualities. And so the charisms grew, But not the emotional ones. This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.

This is strange, though. A year ago I would have said I am one of the more emotional aspirants on here. Is it possible I've been unconsciously blocking emotional fulfillment during jhana by trying to get emotional fulfillment? That's what seems to be the case.

[Jhanananda]

That's what I've been shooting for since yesterday. So I'm glad to see you confirm my theory that it's possible. Although I find it strange that I've meditated to the depth of 4th jhana many times--but it isn't always this rewarding.

I felt joy in the first, equanimity in second, and then tranquility in the 4th. That is rare. I usually experience charisms like tactile and visual, which is how I know what jhana I am in. But these qualities such as tranquility ARE the classic description of those jhanas. How could I experience all the jhanas (so many times in the past) without any of the emotional qualities like joy? Or at least they are rarely even noticeable.

Many people experience the various stages of the religious experience, and while they find those experiences rewarding and transformative, they almost never find skilled guidance into and through them.  In fact, in most cases, the priests of the various religions tend to discourage these experience, warning people that they are evil place to go.

The truth is, to take full advantage of the 8 stages of the religious experience, one has to has make radical lifestyle changes and make cultivating them a full-time occupation.

The other charisms have always been there for the 4 jhanas. But the emotional qualities have almost always been missing, or barely noticeable. I think...it means my awareness always rested on the charisms, but rarely the emotional charisms/qualities. And so the charisms grew, But not the emotional ones. This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.

This is strange, though. A year ago I would have said I am one of the more emotional aspirants on here. Is it possible I've been unconsciously blocking emotional fulfillment during jhana by trying to get emotional fulfillment? That's what seems to be the case.

I do not know why you have not received greater fulfillment in your contemplative life, but getting that fulfillment takes time and commitment to saturate in the religious experiences at depth.  So, just keep coming back to them, and find your fulfillment in them, regardless of how hard the world of humans can be to to each other, and especially to its mystics.

[Michel]

I felt joy in the first, equanimity in second, and then tranquility in the 4th. That is rare. I usually experience charisms like tactile and visual, which is how I know what jhana I am in. But these qualities such as tranquility ARE the classic description of those jhanas. How could I experience all the jhanas (so many times in the past) without any of the emotional qualities like joy? Or at least they are rarely even noticeable.

The other charisms have always been there for the 4 jhanas. But the emotional qualities have almost always been missing, or barely noticeable. I think...it means my awareness always rested on the charisms, but rarely the emotional charisms/qualities. And so the charisms grew, But not the emotional ones. This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.

Good show, Jhanon. Glad to hear that you've overcome your rut and have also discovered emotions of joy, equanimity and tranquility in your meditations. Interesting theory that anything you place your attention on is potentiated. Before your meditation session, did you have any feelings of joy or any other emotions?

[Michel]

The rut is broken. I feel more tranquil and at peace than I ever have in my life. In the past I've mostly craved the ecstasy and energy of jhana. Kundalini and all that.

But never has tranquility felt this good. So good, that I can barely get myself to type this. I'm far more content to continue saturating in it.

Nothing is wrong. Nothing needs to be done. It is as it is. Stillness. One-pointedness in the heart-chakra was pleasant and absorbing. It led to 4th jhana. Weightless tranquility followed.

Peace, again, at last. Freedom. I could have sat there in meditation for eternity.

Way to go, Jhanon. You hit the jackpot.

[Jhanananda]

This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.

Interesting theory that anything you place your attention on is potentiated. Before your meditation session, did you have any feelings of joy or any other emotions?

This is what I call, "changing the channel."  Our psyche tends to get into a rut on whatever it obsesses upon, so a contemplative's job is to keep bringing one's attention back to the meditation object.  The meditation object can be charims, or emotional states such as: bliss, joy, ecstasy, tranquility and equanimity.

[Jhanon]

I felt joy in the first, equanimity in second, and then tranquility in the 4th. That is rare. I usually experience charisms like tactile and visual, which is how I know what jhana I am in. But these qualities such as tranquility ARE the classic description of those jhanas. How could I experience all the jhanas (so many times in the past) without any of the emotional qualities like joy? Or at least they are rarely even noticeable.

The other charisms have always been there for the 4 jhanas. But the emotional qualities have almost always been missing, or barely noticeable. I think...it means my awareness always rested on the charisms, but rarely the emotional charisms/qualities. And so the charisms grew, But not the emotional ones. This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.

Good show, Jhanon. Glad to hear that you've overcome your rut and have also discovered emotions of joy, equanimity and tranquility in your meditations. Interesting theory that anything you place your attention on is potentiated. Before your meditation session, did you have any feelings of joy or any other emotions?

Good question. Before the meditation, I was rather desperate for relief. I also did a few tactile body scans in the early moments, making sure to spend time with areas rarely noticeable in activity--such as the stomach area. I think this aided me in detecting particularly fulfilling charismatic activity among all the charisms being experienced.

The despair appears to have motivated me to find pleasure out of the selection of charismatic phenomena that would arise--rather than waiting for something really great to jump out. So, once I was in 2nd and 3rd jhana, I directed the awareness away from the tactile, audio, and visual charisms--as they gave little pleasure.

I found the heart chakra felt really good, and so I settled on it as the primary object. Then I began to really cultivate it with sincerity. With each breath in, I would "charge" the heart chakra, which lead to stronger and stronger feelings of joy, love, fulfillment, and warmth. I checked the other upper chakras, but they didn't provide the "flavor" I enjoyed of the heart.

The heart chakra remained a plentiful source of saturation after I left meditation. I could direct awareness to the heart chakra, cultivating it again, and within a few moments all the visual, tactile, and audio charisms came on in full blanket. It became a home. A strategy I remember from "With Each and Every Breath". It's worth noting, however, that the heart chakra sensations like this are nothing new to me. But in this particular situation, they were particularly fulfilling...

This is by my theory that anything which awareness shines on is potentiated.

Interesting theory that anything you place your attention on is potentiated. Before your meditation session, did you have any feelings of joy or any other emotions?

This is what I call, "changing the channel."  Our psyche tends to get into a rut on whatever it obsesses upon, so a contemplative's job is to keep bringing one's attention back to the meditation object.  The meditation object can be charims, or emotional states such as: bliss, joy, ecstasy, tranquility and equanimity.

This confirms it, then. The trick, for me, has been trying to remain open to whatever may come and be pleasant. That's how I believe the body scanning of often subtle charismatic activity helped. Also, I've found the charism's I enjoy most are the ones hiding from us in plain sight. What was the awareness centered on during the last weeks? Feelings of inadequacy and being "closed off." So it would make sense that the feelings of openness, love and fulfillment from the heart chakra would be the polar opposite. Thus, it would be subtler to the awareness at first because the awareness is used to seeing closed, cold, inadequacy.

At the same time it is also the most rewarding because of the warmth of the heart chakra. I think this is due to what I call the law of contrast.  Like how coming in from freezing outside temperatures to a warm fireplace feels more pleasant than coming inside from a 100 degree desert and sitting in front of the same fire.

Thank you for asking questions and adding comments. It's helped me understand something very important.

[Jhanon]

I intend to focus more often on detecting emotional states. All the crazy charisms are interesting to observe, but the emotional states are what make the experience "whole" for me. The charisms are always there, but perhaps I am forgetting to scan for the emotional charisms available. So, i will commit to that in both day-to-do and formal meditation.

The emotional charisms function well as my primary object, with all the other charisms in the background. Sort of like a mountain from which everything else is viewed.

[Jhanon]

I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.

In the past, when I was still learning about jhana, the visual field would become completely white. Blinding and yet it's this dull foggy sort of entity. I want to know what these are. I have yet been unable to endure the fear long enough to see if it's some kind of automatic absorption.

I suppose it's freaky because I don't make efforts to see it. It arises on it's own.

Is anyone else familiar with this? Forgive me for the poor writing here. I'm barely awake.

[Jhanon]

I should note the above happens when I turn out the light for sleep. I actually have had a few long stints where I slept with the light on. I know--I'm a coward.

I mention this because it may be related to repeat experiences I am having in almost every meditation sit. In general, I suddenly find myself at the edge looking down miles to the surface below. Everytime this happens, I experience fear. It's become less fearful lately, and just stay cool.

I wonder if others have these kinds of meditation experiences. I wonder if they are being manifested to help me overcome fear. Sort of like training wheels.

[Jhanananda]

The various charisms can be quite intense experiences, which can terrorize us, so we go to our priest, or meditation teacher to discuss these things, and the response we tend to get from priests and meditation teachers is, "The it evil!"  You will need to be depossessed." 

So, this is why I started this forum.  So that we can discuss the various phenomena that arises during deep meditation, and thus disarm our fears. 

It is actually our fear that is the problem, not the phenomena.  So, keep coming back to deep meditation, and eventually you will get used to the often strange terrain of deep meditation.

[Sam Lim]

I think to overcome fear , one should face it.

I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.

In the dark, you should see stars (entities) and it shows that you have improved tremendously and I believe that the foggy or swirly or sometimes other patterns is then that you will begin to see more faces and then proceed into the tunnel to crossover to the immaterial domain.

[Jhanon]

I think to overcome fear , one should face it.

I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.

In the dark, you should see stars (entities) and it shows that you have improved tremendously and I believe that the foggy or swirly or sometimes other patterns is then that you will begin to see more faces and then proceed into the tunnel to crossover to the immaterial domain.

Although I've never put it in those words, what you've said here feels like the subtle intuition I get when this happens. Which is actually what most frightens me. The subtle and vague knowing that I'm about to consciously leave the material plane. So, I think you're correct.

And yes, Jhananda, and Gandarloda, I need to face it. So badly, I need to face it. I know what's waiting on the other side is very unlikely to NOT be fulfilling and energizing. But there's still that fear and doubt. I need something to remember when it happens. Something stronger than fear. Perhaps if I can cultivate the courage which comes from the heart chakra.

Thank you

[Zack]

I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.

Is anyone else familiar with this? Forgive me for the poor writing here. I'm barely awake.

I have experienced something similar. This was during a shamanic journey, but kind of an improvised one: I was standing and making continuous movements similar to the bouncing part of the 'dropping post' qigong exercise, though without the "stacked bone" posture; this has the effect of shaking down the body, or maybe unintentionally shaking free, or something. I'm not sure what led me to do it. My eyes were half open and not focused on anything in particular as I entered into a trance. What then entered the room I can only call entities of light, like you said. The sense was these were beings or entities, there was the vaguest of human(?) forms to their diffuse fog, and I felt them surround me. There was a very palpable presence in the room. I had some fear, though I knew they weren't malicious and I wasn't in danger... really it was more a feeling of uneasiness and nakedness. Nothing much else remarkable happened, maybe because I was kind of startled back into my body, though I continued on for a little bit.

Keep the posts coming. I am finding them very clear and helpful.

[Jhanon]

I'm seeing entities of light right now. Especially when I turn off the light they are very visible. It's hard to explain, but it's like a bright white fog of diffused light. This isn't my first time with this. Whenever I've meditated at least 6 hours in a 3 day period, I see such foggy light.

Is anyone else familiar with this? Forgive me for the poor writing here. I'm barely awake.

I have experienced something similar. This was during a shamanic journey, but kind of an improvised one: I was standing and making continuous movements similar to the bouncing part of the 'dropping post' qigong exercise, though without the "stacked bone" posture; this has the effect of shaking down the body, or maybe unintentionally shaking free, or something. I'm not sure what led me to do it. My eyes were half open and not focused on anything in particular as I entered into a trance. What then entered the room I can only call entities of light, like you said. The sense was these were beings or entities, there was the vaguest of human(?) forms to their diffuse fog, and I felt them surround me. There was a very palpable presence in the room. I had some fear, though I knew they weren't malicious and I wasn't in danger... really it was more a feeling of uneasiness and nakedness. Nothing much else remarkable happened, maybe because I was kind of startled back into my body, though I continued on for a little bit.

Keep the posts coming. I am finding them very clear and helpful.

The distinct feeling of presence and them actually appearing within my awareness of the physical world without my effors is what is frightening. But I have never gotten a sense they meant harm. Just like you said. Rather I feel vulnerable and disempowered. Perhaps even humiliated.

I paid the price for avoiding instead of facing it. Today the mind is foggy, sapped of energy, dazed, empty, and really rather useless. Meditation hasn't corrected it yet.