Jhanon's Blog

[Jhanon]

Did a week-long retreat that ended a couple days ago. Tremendous progress, and I am very pleased. I'm also very pleased I found Jhananda and the GWV. I remember a year ago asking for jhana, a truly wise and knowledgeable teacher, and stream-entry. Although I am hesitant to claim stream-entry, it certainly feels like having entered the stream! So the last 10 days or so it seems like Christmas came early. I'm deeply grateful especially for Jhananda and GWV.

On the last day of the retreat I actually shy'd away from mediation. I suppose I became intimidated upon realizing how deep it goes, and that the concentrated effort of the retreat appeared to have me headed there fast--at least for a tour. I remember every time I sat down on the last day to meditate, I would started absorbing into 2nd jhana upon closing my eyes. New to the mix was I think kundalini energy stirring in my head and quickly filling the body. It reminded me of the beginning build-up to my first strong kundalini, which I have since longed for everyday. Much to my dismay, i found the mind making excuses to end the sit early. Since then, I've had the feeling that there is a build up of energy needing to be released. Every time I sat still, it would start coming on--and this caused me to be more intimidated. But some time outside has re-balanced that.

I missed any dedicated sits the last two days, in part due to my aforementioned hesitance. Since then, it has been not so easy to absorb quickly. Today I made up for it by meditating for 5 hours. After the first hour I began feeling a pressure headache. I first tried a small bit of caffeine. Then a couple different analgesics. Then later realized it was definitely the third eye chakra. I wonder if it is related to leaving those sits before the energy could run it's course? I can't find record on the forum of any proposed causes for the third eye ache.

Meditation was slow going during all three sits. It took me an hour each time just to reach a solid second jhana. Although the last session did reach an early 3rd jhana. Also, during the second sit, instead of the usual bliss and joy, I felt this strange experience. It felt like my body was everywhere, and yet turning to the right. I'd open my eyes and all would seem normal. Close them and re-absorb, it would happen again. Kinesthetic charism?

Also, I am definitely beginning to see how the Buddha came to identify the three characteristics and four noble truths as central to the Dhamma. A few blissful jhanas and I'm not sure one could miss them if one tried! In fact, I'm positive most of his teachings were with daily jhana experience and saturation in mind for the practitioner. It's how these teachings reveal themselves in the experience of jhana that give them their liberating depth and power. There is a unique kind of confidence and clarity that has come as a result. Such a relief to have entered the Path.

Will try to do another 5 hours tomorrow, depending on how fast I get my responsibilities out of the way, and if anymore are added on. I want to get that fast absorption back.

[Jhanananda]

Did a week-long retreat that ended a couple days ago. Tremendous progress, and I am very pleased. I'm also very pleased I found Jhananda and the GWV. I remember a year ago asking for jhana, a truly wise and knowledgeable teacher, and stream-entry. Although I am hesitant to claim stream-entry, it certainly feels like having entered the stream! So the last 10 days or so it seems like Christmas came early. I'm deeply grateful especially for Jhananda and GWV.

It was my experience that the more I explored the world of religion and the contemplative arts the less I felt I could find anyone who understood the charisms that I was experiencing in deep meditation, so I am not surprised by your gratitude.  The forum is here, and as the years go by there will be more reports from contemplatives who are experiencing the things that you are experiencing in meditation.  It is comforting to find such a resource.  That was the writing of the mystics for me. 

Mainstream religion, and its followers, on the other hand, are offended by the reports of mystics, because mainstream religion has mystified the religious experience, so our reports here make their progenitor not look so special.  Thus, the followers of mainstream religion will do every thing they can to bring this record down, so they can bring you and all other mystics down. 

Call me paranoid, if you want, but in my experience the attacks from the followers of mainstream religion will never stop until mystics join together to create their own community (sangha), translate their own version of ancient religious literature, and maintain their own library of case histories.  It is up to each and every one of you, because community is people, not one person.  keep in mind creating a community (sangha) for fellow mystics today provides support, and guidance, for future mystics.

For me, the endless attacks have warn me down.  I am at the point where I do not care any more.  Mainstream religion can pull this down, and I will just walk away from it, because I am done.

On the last day of the retreat I actually shy'd away from mediation. I suppose I became intimidated upon realizing how deep it goes, and that the concentrated effort of the retreat appeared to have me headed there fast--at least for a tour...

The deeper we go into meditation, the more profound the religious experience, the more threatened our ego becomes; so it is understandable that you would find a barrier that you cannot cross right now.  Just give it time, and go to the depth that suits you.  No matter how deep you go, you can always open your eyes and it will all stop.

I missed any dedicated sits the last two days, in part due to my aforementioned hesitance. Since then, it has been not so easy to absorb quickly. Today I made up for it by meditating for 5 hours. After the first hour I began feeling a pressure headache. I first tried a small bit of caffeine. Then a couple different analgesics. Then later realized it was definitely the third eye chakra. I wonder if it is related to leaving those sits before the energy could run it's course? I can't find record on the forum of any proposed causes for the third eye ache.

Several people have reported headaches associated with deeper levels of meditation.  There are 2 hypotheses that explain it, and both could easily be valid. 

1) The headache is a misinterpretation of the charism of the third eye or crown chakra, so that the subject interprets those intense sensations as a headache.  Keep in mind the charisms can often be so intense anywhere in the body to be painful.  I believe this is where the charism of stigmata originates. 

2) There might be some resistance to the depth of the meditation, which could cause the headache.  The solution here is just let go, and let it happen.

With educating ourselves about charismatic phenomena, we gain some comfort with the phenomena of the religious experience (samadhi).  As we gain comfort with it, we will find we can go deeper.  It is just nice knowing where it goes.

Meditation was slow going during all three sits. It took me an hour each time just to reach a solid second jhana. Although the last session did reach an early 3rd jhana. Also, during the second sit, instead of the usual bliss and joy, I felt this strange experience. It felt like my body was everywhere, and yet turning to the right. I'd open my eyes and all would seem normal. Close them and re-absorb, it would happen again. Kinesthetic charism?

Yes, that was the Kinesthetic charism, plus the feeling that your body was everywhere, both show you had achieved the 4th jhana.  The sense of moving, or rotating, shows you were about to go out of body (OOBE).  If you had, then you would have gone to the 5th samadhi or above.  If you want to go deeper, then allow the Kinesthetic charism to take over and go with the sense of movement.

Also, I am definitely beginning to see how the Buddha came to identify the three characteristics and four noble truths as central to the Dhamma. A few blissful jhanas and I'm not sure one could miss them if one tried! In fact, I'm positive most of his teachings were with daily jhana experience and saturation in mind for the practitioner. It's how these teachings reveal themselves in the experience of jhana that give them their liberating depth and power. There is a unique kind of confidence and clarity that has come as a result. Such a relief to have entered the Path.

This is clear insight born of absorption (samadhi).  Without samadhi the 4NT and N8P seem like a purely intellectual, and mechanical, cognitive method; however, once one realizes that the 8th fold of the N8P is saturation in the charisms of the religious experience, then we realize, and actually find, that the 4th jhana is the answer to the 4NT, because there we find no suffering (dhukkha) at all. 

When the subject masters the 4th stage of the religious experience (4th jhana), then they find they have no craving whatsoever.  At that point, by definition, one is an arahatta.

On the other hand when we leave the samadhi and go back to carrying water and chopping wood, then we my stumble over a tree root, or drop the bucket on our foot, or have a splinter of wood fly off and hit us in the eye, or have an auto to repair that was designed not to be serviced by the owner, or have endless attacks from the followers of mainstream religion, that might just drive us absolutely raving mad for a few moments, just long enough to satisfy the followers of mainstream religion, who will tell everyone they know, "See he is just a fraud, he cannot walk on water either, so join our church, and donate to our cause."  Of course, if you go there you find the priests are molesting children, or the gurus are bilking people out of their fortunes, or a long list of fraudulent activities.

Will try to do another 5 hours tomorrow, depending on how fast I get my responsibilities out of the way, and if anymore are added on. I want to get that fast absorption back.

The good thing about finding the religious experience in meditation, is no matter how much the world seems like nothing but frauds, hucksters, clowns, idiots, and or an asylum for the insane; you can always go into your religious experience and leave it all behind. And, it does not cost anything, and you do not have to believe anything.

[Jhanon]

Jhananda, thank you for the detailed reply. It was all very helpful. I intend to specifically respond to a few of your comments later when I am not confined to the iPad. For now, I need to crank out today's meditation journaling before I go to sleep.

Today I only had one meditation session, as much of today was gobbled up with care taking. It was two hours long. At about one hour 10 minutes, it began getting really strong and quite more pleasant than usual. I was really enjoying it. I am uncertain which jhana it was. It was at least the strongest 2nd jhana I've had. There was a loud heater fan on, and I felt it may have been interfering with ability for deeper states. I carefully remained saturated as I turned it off and get back to it. It regained it's depth, and then some.

Strangely, despite not being sleepy, that is all I remember until I was sitting up (I had been laying) staring at someone who had entered the room. I struggled to understand what happened and I had a distinct confusion. I felt like I had been meditating for a very long time, perhaps days. Because the visitor brought responsibility, I unfortunately hurried my mind to establish itself. I felt shocked, and began telling the visitor about what I thought I thought I has seen in meditation. They informed me that I was describing the current day. I was shocked and confused, sitting in silence trying to understand. I looked at my stopwatch app; it had only been a total of 2 hours.

I realized I was pissing away my memory of what happened by rushing my mind. I tried to recall, because it was obviously SOMETHING new-ish. But it was too late. I was utterly perplexed. I still am. I asked the visitor to be careful when I am meditating. They said they thought they heard me leave the room for a moment, and so thought I was finished. Now I was really confused. They also said that I was already sitting up when they came in the room. Even more confused because I thought I had bolted up because of a knock or somehow knowing there was someone coming in--there was no knock made.

Other than that, I have noticed that memories from my childhood that I forgot about after they happened have begun coming back to me. So far it has been pleasant things, which is surprising.

I am lately even more turned off by the householder life. Since my retreat ended, it has been very difficult to retain saturation throughout the days. This is disappointing for me, as it leads to my mind using it's old tricks for pleasure.

That's about it. Going to try to meditate to sleep. Hopefully have time in the morning to reply to Jhananda's comments.

[Jhanon]

I keep absorbing quickly into a deep state and it's freaking me out! After my night meditation, I tried to go to sleep. But without even trying, I kept absorbing. It feels like that wonderful period between awake and asleep, except I am fully lucid as I watch physical phenomena disappear, and it is extremely pleasurable and develops deeply very rapidly. But the novelty of consciously letting go of the body is reminding me of the early nights of the white wall of annihilating light. I just keep remembering Jhananda's swimming metaphor he used earlier, and so dip my toe a little more every time. It's so captivating. I admit, I had a little vodka to calm the nerves. I feel so blessed and yet it's like "Oh, instead of buying me a car for my sixteenth, you bought me an intergalactic spaceship capable of faster than light travel." I should just do it, but so many ambiguous and lame excuses and fears keep popping up. Will update tomorrow.

But the thing most holding me back is; What's gonna happen if I let it take me? Maybe I'll just rest in this deeply satisfying state. Maybe immaterial. I don't know. In normal meditation it is a bit easier because I really have to cultivate the jhanas, and so progress is usually slower. But right now it seems like they are coming on strong, all on their own.

[Jhanananda]

Jhananda, thank you for the detailed reply. It was all very helpful. I intend to specifically respond to a few of your comments later when I am not confined to the iPad. For now, I need to crank out today's meditation journaling before I go to sleep.

Today I only had one meditation session, as much of today was gobbled up with care taking. It was two hours long. At about one hour 10 minutes, it began getting really strong and quite more pleasant than usual. I was really enjoying it. I am uncertain which jhana it was. It was at least the strongest 2nd jhana I've had. There was a loud heater fan on, and I felt it may have been interfering with ability for deeper states. I carefully remained saturated as I turned it off and get back to it. It regained it's depth, and then some.

Yes, I too try to avoid noises, especially mechanical ones, because I found they can definitely reduce the depth of a meditation.  The ticking of a clock seems to be the worst, so early on I made sure there were no ticking clocks in my meditation space.

When I sat with groups in meditation halls, I noticed that almost every one of them had a ticking clock.  It might explain why so few people who meditate get nothing out of the practice.

Strangely, despite not being sleepy, that is all I remember until I was sitting up (I had been laying) staring at someone who had entered the room. I struggled to understand what happened and I had a distinct confusion. I felt like I had been meditating for a very long time, perhaps days. Because the visitor brought responsibility, I unfortunately hurried my mind to establish itself. I felt shocked, and began telling the visitor about what I thought I thought I has seen in meditation. They informed me that I was describing the current day. I was shocked and confused, sitting in silence trying to understand. I looked at my stopwatch app; it had only been a total of 2 hours.

I realized I was pissing away my memory of what happened by rushing my mind. I tried to recall, because it was obviously SOMETHING new-ish. But it was too late. I was utterly perplexed. I still am. I asked the visitor to be careful when I am meditating. They said they thought they heard me leave the room for a moment, and so thought I was finished. Now I was really confused. They also said that I was already sitting up when they came in the room. Even more confused because I thought I had bolted up because of a knock or somehow knowing there was someone coming in--there was no knock made.

Disorientation is common for deep meditations, especially from meditating lying down.  So, it is best to avoid the disruptions, if one can.  I used to meditate lying down every day after work to rejuvenate myself.  I would come home, hug and kiss the wife and kids, then go upstairs and lie down on the bed, and go as deep as I cold go for as long as I could.  Sometimes it would be dark and all had gone to bed when I came out, but most of the time only an hour would have gone by, and it was time for dinner, and I would spend the evening with my family, then after all had gone to bed, I would meditate sitting up for as long as I could.  Sometimes it would be quite late when I came to bed. 

Loved ones have trouble living with the solitude that a mystic needs.  The rest of the world thinks our lifestyle is down right insane or demonic, and either drug us, or burn us.

Other than that, I have noticed that memories from my childhood that I forgot about after they happened have begun coming back to me. So far it has been pleasant things, which is surprising.

I found meditation improved my memory considerably.  One of my sisters has spent her whole lifetime in alcoholism and drug addiction trying to forget our childhood.  She used to call me intoxicated late at night to ask me if some even had actually happened.  I would fill in the details for her, even though I was the youngest, I had the best memory of our dysfunctional childhood.  Helping her to remember details usually drove her deeper into her drugs.

I am lately even more turned off by the householder life. Since my retreat ended, it has been very difficult to retain saturation throughout the days. This is disappointing for me, as it leads to my mind using it's old tricks for pleasure.

That's about it. Going to try to meditate to sleep. Hopefully have time in the morning to reply to Jhananda's comments.

The householder life has its problems.  It is best to live with someone who is a fellow contemplative and mystic.  On the other hand, ending a relationship just because one has taken up a contemplative/mystical life does not seem valid, and can result in much more distraction.  So, if one can, then it is best to try and work things out so that both people have their needs met.

I keep absorbing quickly into a deep state and it's freaking me out! After my night meditation, I tried to go to sleep. But without even trying, I kept absorbing. It feels like that wonderful period between awake and asleep, except I am fully lucid as I watch physical phenomena disappear, and it is extremely pleasurable and develops deeply very rapidly. But the novelty of consciously letting go of the body is reminding me of the early nights of the white wall of annihilating light. I just keep remembering Jhananda's swimming metaphor he used earlier, and so dip my toe a little more every time. It's so captivating. I admit, I had a little vodka to calm the nerves. I feel so blessed and yet it's like "Oh, instead of buying me a car for my sixteenth, you bought me an intergalactic spaceship capable of faster than light travel." I should just do it, but so many ambiguous and lame excuses and fears keep popping up. Will update tomorrow.

But the thing most holding me back is; What's gonna happen if I let it take me? Maybe I'll just rest in this deeply satisfying state. Maybe immaterial. I don't know. In normal meditation it is a bit easier because I really have to cultivate the jhanas, and so progress is usually slower. But right now it seems like they are coming on strong, all on their own.

There are many consequences of deep meditation practice that impact our lives.  Also, the deep states get more weird the deeper one goes.  And, with almost no one in this culture understanding those states, we often have no place to go to figure it out. 

While I understand that it might be just too difficult to accept meditating to depth with absolutely no intention of coming back, I found, that was precisely the attitude I had to take to go all of the way.  This is where the Four Noble Truths and relinquishing craving become relevant, because any attachment to the world will keep us bound to it in meditation and after death of the body.

[Jhanon]

Jhananda, thank you for the detailed reply. It was all very helpful. I intend to specifically respond to a few of your comments later when I am not confined to the iPad. For now, I need to crank out today's meditation journaling before I go to sleep.

Today I only had one meditation session, as much of today was gobbled up with care taking. It was two hours long. At about one hour 10 minutes, it began getting really strong and quite more pleasant than usual. I was really enjoying it. I am uncertain which jhana it was. It was at least the strongest 2nd jhana I've had. There was a loud heater fan on, and I felt it may have been interfering with ability for deeper states. I carefully remained saturated as I turned it off and get back to it. It regained it's depth, and then some.

Yes, I too try to avoid noises, especially mechanical ones, because I found they can definitely reduce the depth of a meditation.  The ticking of a clock seems to be the worst, so early on I made sure there were no ticking clocks in my meditation space.

When I sat with groups in meditation halls, I noticed that almost every one of them had a ticking clock.  It might explain why so few people who meditate get nothing out of the practice.

I, too, have noticed this. The one I used to frequent the most had TWO ticking clocks in the meditation hall. Thankfully, one of the monks removed the one on one side of the room because of the reasons we have discussed. So I always sat on that side, nearest him.

Strangely, despite not being sleepy, that is all I remember until I was sitting up (I had been laying) staring at someone who had entered the room. I struggled to understand what happened and I had a distinct confusion. I felt like I had been meditating for a very long time, perhaps days. Because the visitor brought responsibility, I unfortunately hurried my mind to establish itself. I felt shocked, and began telling the visitor about what I thought I thought I has seen in meditation. They informed me that I was describing the current day. I was shocked and confused, sitting in silence trying to understand. I looked at my stopwatch app; it had only been a total of 2 hours.

I realized I was pissing away my memory of what happened by rushing my mind. I tried to recall, because it was obviously SOMETHING new-ish. But it was too late. I was utterly perplexed. I still am. I asked the visitor to be careful when I am meditating. They said they thought they heard me leave the room for a moment, and so thought I was finished. Now I was really confused. They also said that I was already sitting up when they came in the room. Even more confused because I thought I had bolted up because of a knock or somehow knowing there was someone coming in--there was no knock made.

Disorientation is common for deep meditations, especially from meditating lying down.  So, it is best to avoid the disruptions, if one can.  I used to meditate lying down every day after work to rejuvenate myself.  I would come home, hug and kiss the wife and kids, then go upstairs and lie down on the bed, and go as deep as I cold go for as long as I could.  Sometimes it would be dark and all had gone to bed when I came out, but most of the time only an hour would have gone by, and it was time for dinner, and I would spend the evening with my family, then after all had gone to bed, I would meditate sitting up for as long as I could.  Sometimes it would be quite late when I came to bed. 

Loved ones have trouble living with the solitude that a mystic needs.  The rest of the world thinks our lifestyle is down right insane or demonic, and either drug us, or burn us.

It is very helpful for me to read about how you lived while being a householder with kids and a wife. Thank you.

Other than that, I have noticed that memories from my childhood that I forgot about after they happened have begun coming back to me. So far it has been pleasant things, which is surprising.

I found meditation improved my memory considerably.  One of my sisters has spent her whole lifetime in alcoholism and drug addiction trying to forget our childhood.  She used to call me intoxicated late at night to ask me if some even had actually happened.  I would fill in the details for her, even though I was the youngest, I had the best memory of our dysfunctional childhood.  Helping her to remember details usually drove her deeper into her drugs.

I am acquainted with this as well. I know how frustrating it was before I started getting into deeper meditation and experiencing significant healing. It felt like no matter how much prospective methods of healing I learned, or what I found to be a viable way out of suffering, I just couldn't get through to her. She was always there for me when I was younger, and I have always wanted to return the favor. But I think I may have in our most recent exchange. time will tell.

I am lately even more turned off by the householder life. Since my retreat ended, it has been very difficult to retain saturation throughout the days. This is disappointing for me, as it leads to my mind using it's old tricks for pleasure.

That's about it. Going to try to meditate to sleep. Hopefully have time in the morning to reply to Jhananda's comments.

The householder life has its problems.  It is best to live with someone who is a fellow contemplative and mystic.  On the other hand, ending a relationship just because one has taken up a contemplative/mystical life does not seem valid, and can result in much more distraction.  So, if one can, then it is best to try and work things out so that both people have their needs met.

I keep absorbing quickly into a deep state and it's freaking me out! After my night meditation, I tried to go to sleep. But without even trying, I kept absorbing. It feels like that wonderful period between awake and asleep, except I am fully lucid as I watch physical phenomena disappear, and it is extremely pleasurable and develops deeply very rapidly. But the novelty of consciously letting go of the body is reminding me of the early nights of the white wall of annihilating light. I just keep remembering Jhananda's swimming metaphor he used earlier, and so dip my toe a little more every time. It's so captivating. I admit, I had a little vodka to calm the nerves. I feel so blessed and yet it's like "Oh, instead of buying me a car for my sixteenth, you bought me an intergalactic spaceship capable of faster than light travel." I should just do it, but so many ambiguous and lame excuses and fears keep popping up. Will update tomorrow.

But the thing most holding me back is; What's gonna happen if I let it take me? Maybe I'll just rest in this deeply satisfying state. Maybe immaterial. I don't know. In normal meditation it is a bit easier because I really have to cultivate the jhanas, and so progress is usually slower. But right now it seems like they are coming on strong, all on their own.

There are many consequences of deep meditation practice that impact our lives.  Also, the deep states get more weird the deeper one goes.  And, with almost no one in this culture understanding those states, we often have no place to go to figure it out. 

While I understand that it might be just too difficult to accept meditating to depth with absolutely no intention of coming back, I found, that was precisely the attitude I had to take to go all of the way.  This is where the Four Noble Truths and relinquishing craving become relevant, because any attachment to the world will keep us bound to it in meditation and after death of the body.

You hit home this time with what is in bold. I have a concern though, that I might actually NOT come back. That isn't possible, is it?

I intend to respond to your earlier comments, as I mentioned. But I am running out of time to meditate. My apologies.

[Jhanananda]

You hit home this time with what is in bold. I have a concern though, that I might actually NOT come back. That isn't possible, is it?

When you let go totally, it becomes irrelevant.  On the other hand it helps to live a lifestyle that has no loose ends, so you can indeed let go completely when in deep meditation.

I intend to respond to your earlier comments, as I mentioned. But I am running out of time to meditate. My apologies.

Never skip a meditation session just to talk to mystics.  You know where to find them now anyway.

[Jhanon]

You're right, on both accounts. I have tied up all my loose ends, made amends. When I first dedicated myself to this path, I "randomly" started running into all these people I wanted to make amends with. Some I hadn't seen since middle school!

I resolved the meditation/forum issue yesterday, but it came back today. The problem is that I normally have 24-7 duties, and when I have time to meditate or forum is often ambiguous. I can hit the forum and handle most of my responsibilities at the same time, whereas I of course cannot do that with meditation. So to avoid getting interrupted in deep meditation like yesterday, I have to guess. Hopefully as my insight grows I will become more attuned. And I should make more of an effort to saturate before allowing myself to do either.

[Jhanon]

Squeezed in an almost 1 hour meditation just now. Before doing so, I got the sudden thought that I should do a sitting meditation. I declined to sit through a series of excuses and reasons in the mind. Now I'm kind of wishing I had sat.

Although I wasn't saturated throughout the day so far, I was able to find charism within a few minutes. (Note to self: From now on, attempt to meditate immediately after waking in the morning). Soon it got that satisfactory whole-body-ness to it. And then, yet again, that is all I remember.

Next thing I remember I feel this dis-embodiness. It's hard to explain, but I'll try. It felt like I was sending signals to the body, but the sensations I experienced in reaction weren't of the body that I'm used to--they felt much "softer". That progressively changed into feeling like I was indeed in the body I'm used to, and I realized that those signals I was sending had put the body into a type of back-arching arms stretch. Like a baby or cat would stretch upon waking up. I can't recall ever stretching like this while I am laying down. It was almost awkward. I opened my eyes, and again was confused.

One of the first things I noticed as the senses became "accounted for" (I guess that's how I would put it), is some vehement crying coming from downstairs. I looked at the stopwatch and realized my meditation was pretty much over. I was let down and dysphoric, because I remembered so little, and therefor experienced so little relief from the human realm. I thought about last night when I was absorbing almost automatically. How good it felt, and how I ultimately shy'd away from going into its depths. And how Jhananda told me I had to be ready to "Never come back". In that moment that I thought about this and heard the crying, I was ready.

The immediate stress of hearing the crying is what caused me to basically destroy any chance of recalling what happened. I went into stress-response mode, shut down all my aspirations and concerns with meditation, and went downstairs. It was over. I should have stopped that automatic response, and attempted to recall what happened. Because it took over 50 minutes afterward to coax myself through music, writing, and my helper herb, into willfully engaging with the world again. Whereas if I would have taken the 3-10 minutes to recall and re-saturate, it would have been much easier. It would have been an overall better move.

Now I'm actually starved of at least a solid 2nd jhana experience. Just recalling what it felt like last night, and the one experience with devas, or even the retreat--heaven. Just the memory of it is enough to get me through to the next session.

A new Eluvium song came on, comforting me and reminding me the nature of life as a human. Such tragedy, pain, and suffering I've experienced, and yet such hope for redemption, transcendence, and relief comes with this new era in this life. At which point I also reflected about mapeli's journal entry where it's mentioned that there comes a realizing that one can choose a wholesome state over an unwholesome state through recognition of each respective energy.

I'll post the song in the Art of the Mystic category.

Be well, friends. Don't ever give up, but put yourself in a situation to let go. If you're reading this, and you can feel the pain I spoke about, yet haven't experienced the relief, know that there is hope. Meditate. Meditate. Study. Contemplate. Reflect. Meditate. Meditate.

[Jhanon]

Another 1 hour meditation moments ago. When it started to get deep, I would become concerned that I might blast off into the immaterial and lose track of time and physical surroundings. This would be a problem because I am caretaking alone this evening. I realized that I should make an effort to learn to navigate the jhanas. This would help meditations be more enjoyable, and to get the most out of limited time sits.

I first let myself go through the standard process of transitioning to a higher jhana. I noted what my mind did to facilitate this. Then I attempted to deliberately do it, and a qualitative shift happened again. Only this time I also noticed that the chakra associated with the the jhana would become "full" more than the others. I have never heard of this specifically, and although it made sense, I was at first in disbelief. So I began noting qualities of the jhana, what chakra felt the most stimulation, and then facilitate the letting go I had learned. So for example, 1st jhana was the heart, second jhana was the throat, etc. Shifting down a jhana I actually found more tricky than shifting up. Each time I found nothing to deny the theory, but I always reserve the possibility I am deluding myself or not observing well enough.

I noticed that, if what I was observing was accurate, then each jhana also has a range of depth. It can be light, or very strong. Although it still must be within the confines of its qualities. So 2nd jhana charisma can be much stronger than the strongest 1st jhana--or at least so it seems. I haven't tested this strength theory enough to be sure, but it seems logical and likely. 

I need to test all of this more before I can conclude anything. For now it is a promising hypothesis.

PS Whenever I enter 3rd or 4th jhana in a session, I leave the meditation with what feels like a head ache. I need to cultivate an appreciation for this. Or perhaps after more experience with 3rd and 4th jhana it simply becomes more pleasant. Or, it is possible I somehow focus on the head strongly during meditation and am not realizing it.

Going to go test this some more until I fall asleep. I still have doubts about these observations, primarily because I expected to have to really work hard for skills like this. For example, 4th jhana seemed like something I would maybe get a glimpse of a year after learning 1st.

[Jhanananda]

Another 1 hour meditation moments ago. When it started to get deep, I would become concerned that I might blast off into the immaterial and lose track of time and physical surroundings. This would be a problem because I am caretaking alone this evening. I realized that I should make an effort to learn to navigate the jhanas. This would help meditations be more enjoyable, and to get the most out of limited time sits.

I first let myself go through the standard process of transitioning to a higher jhana. I noted what my mind did to facilitate this. Then I attempted to deliberately do it, and a qualitative shift happened again. Only this time I also noticed that the chakra associated with the the jhana would become "full" more than the others. I have never heard of this specifically, and although it made sense, I was at first in disbelief. So I began noting qualities of the jhana, what chakra felt the most stimulation, and then facilitate the letting go I had learned. So for example, 1st jhana was the heart, second jhana was the throat, etc. Shifting down a jhana I actually found more tricky than shifting up. Each time I found nothing to deny the theory, but I always reserve the possibility I am deluding myself or not observing well enough.

I noticed that, if what I was observing was accurate, then each jhana also has a range of depth. It can be light, or very strong. Although it still must be within the confines of its qualities. So 2nd jhana charisma can be much stronger than the strongest 1st jhana--or at least so it seems. I haven't tested this strength theory enough to be sure, but it seems logical and likely. 

I need to test all of this more before I can conclude anything. For now it is a promising hypothesis.

Interesting hypothesis.  In my experience the deeper I go the more bliss, joy and ecstasy I experience, so it will be interesting to read what you find.

PS Whenever I enter 3rd or 4th jhana in a session, I leave the meditation with what feels like a head ache. I need to cultivate an appreciation for this. Or perhaps after more experience with 3rd and 4th jhana it simply becomes more pleasant. Or, it is possible I somehow focus on the head strongly during meditation and am not realizing it.

I have heard of the headache from others.  I still subscribe to it being a misinterpretation of intense energies being focused in the head chakras, or resistance to the charisms, but there could be other factors.

Going to go test this some more until I fall asleep. I still have doubts about these observations, primarily because I expected to have to really work hard for skills like this. For example, 4th jhana seemed like something I would maybe get a glimpse of a year after learning 1st.

There really is no time limit upon how deep one can go early on.  Some people take years to traverse each stage of the religious experience, and some people make the journey quickly.

[Jhanon]

I found your comments helpful, Jhananda. Especially about there not being a time limit to how deep one can go early on.

Unfortunately, despite landing an additional 5-day home retreat, I have not experienced as much "success" as I did in the first retreat. Sometimes it takes me an hour or longer of laying down meditation to reach an obvious jhana.

Yesterday I did reach 4th jhana, but it took quite a long time to get there, and the strength of the experience was quite dim. I think the total meditation session time was 3 hours. It wasn't as refreshing as the first retreat experiences.

I just finished an hour long sit and as far as I can tell, I didn't even reach 1st jhana. I'm quite disappointed that I no longer have the immediate access I grew accustom to during and shortly after the last retreat. It's a little bit more challenging to want to meditate because of this. I can barely feel any of the charisms. I don't see anything that really changed, except for perhaps reduced inspiration and discussion.

However, there is one additional difference. During the last retreat I was trialing a "smart drug". The introduction of it and my success did line up. I have a hard time believing this to be the case, but I do have some left. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. What a shocking discovery that will be if I find it to be behind my previous success.

Still, I soldier on, hoping to find the depth and magnitude I grew to love. What would be really great is another immaterial experience. I find myself remembering its charm often.

[Jhanananda]

I found your comments helpful, Jhananda. Especially about there not being a time limit to how deep one can go early on.

Unfortunately, despite landing an additional 5-day home retreat, I have not experienced as much "success" as I did in the first retreat. Sometimes it takes me an hour or longer of laying down meditation to reach an obvious jhana.

Yesterday I did reach 4th jhana, but it took quite a long time to get there, and the strength of the experience was quite dim. I think the total meditation session time was 3 hours. It wasn't as refreshing as the first retreat experiences.

I just finished an hour long sit and as far as I can tell, I didn't even reach 1st jhana. I'm quite disappointed that I no longer have the immediate access I grew accustom to during and shortly after the last retreat. It's a little bit more challenging to want to meditate because of this. I can barely feel any of the charisms. I don't see anything that really changed, except for perhaps reduced inspiration and discussion.

Just accept that there are always ups and downs in the contemplative/religious experience for everyone.  You simply cannot expect to get the "jackpot" every time you meditation.  However, if you show up regularly and learn to hone your lifestyle, as well as you contemplative life, then you can improve your odds.

However, there is one additional difference. During the last retreat I was trialing a "smart drug". The introduction of it and my success did line up. I have a hard time believing this to be the case, but I do have some left. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. What a shocking discovery that will be if I find it to be behind my previous success.

Still, I soldier on, hoping to find the depth and magnitude I grew to love. What would be really great is another immaterial experience. I find myself remembering its charm often.

No "smart drug" can help you other than to mimic the religious experience.  Just learn how to do it on your own, and you will be way ahead of the game.

[Jhanon]

Thank you for your response, Jhananda.

I found your comments helpful, Jhananda. Especially about there not being a time limit to how deep one can go early on.

Unfortunately, despite landing an additional 5-day home retreat, I have not experienced as much "success" as I did in the first retreat. Sometimes it takes me an hour or longer of laying down meditation to reach an obvious jhana.

Yesterday I did reach 4th jhana, but it took quite a long time to get there, and the strength of the experience was quite dim. I think the total meditation session time was 3 hours. It wasn't as refreshing as the first retreat experiences.

I just finished an hour long sit and as far as I can tell, I didn't even reach 1st jhana. I'm quite disappointed that I no longer have the immediate access I grew accustom to during and shortly after the last retreat. It's a little bit more challenging to want to meditate because of this. I can barely feel any of the charisms. I don't see anything that really changed, except for perhaps reduced inspiration and discussion.

Just accept that there are always ups and downs in the contemplative/religious experience for everyone.  You simply cannot expect to get the "jackpot" every time you meditation.  However, if you show up regularly and learn to hone your lifestyle, as well as you contemplative life, then you can improve your odds.

On that subject, I wonder if the strength of tactile charisms diminishes when one is sexually active. From what I understand, sexual energy is closely related (or the same thing) as the tacticle energy charism present in meditation. So if that energy is expelled through sexual activity, it seems reasonable that it might impact the available energy or strength of presence of charisms in the body. For example, from what I can remember of the last retreat that went well, I was celibate. I had charisms with me all day, helping me stay energized, happy, and able to reach jhana quickly. But I have not been celibate recently, and it coincides with a drop in strength of charisms.

I just completed a 2 hour meditation in which I am certain this time I meditated well, but charisms were hardly present. Although i did try to just be happy with what I got.

However, there is one additional difference. During the last retreat I was trialing a "smart drug". The introduction of it and my success did line up. I have a hard time believing this to be the case, but I do have some left. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. What a shocking discovery that will be if I find it to be behind my previous success.

Still, I soldier on, hoping to find the depth and magnitude I grew to love. What would be really great is another immaterial experience. I find myself remembering its charm often.

No "smart drug" can help you other than to mimic the religious experience.  Just learn how to do it on your own, and you will be way ahead of the game.

That's not what this one does. It boosts mental functions, in the same way a quality diet also has for me. It isn't in any class of substances I have ever tried before. There is no "high". It is one of the mildest prescribed for those with ADHD. While I think it is wise to wipe away as many variables such as substances, I also acknowledge that I have diagnosis that substances have helped with in the past. Some people need treatment for pain, others need treatment for mental difficulty. I think the goal is to find the most effective with the least negative drawbacks, and the ultimate goal is to be free of as many material crutches as possible. While this new substance is certainly useful, I've addressed my new hypothesis for the change in meditative experience above.

I accept there will be ups and downs in meditation, but this recent "down" seems suspicious. Suspicious in that I think there is something I can do about it. And there are some other aspects of my meditation that seem suspiciously "off". I can't say with confidence that in absorption (other than experiences when not purposefully meditating) I have ever experienced any kind of joy or "glee" as someone else on here put it. This is despite my efforts to "take joy in the experience", "appreciate" or cultivate the brahma viharas during meditation. This is one of those "off" things that I am working on. I also think there is some reason the charisms have suddenly dropped, despite not much change in my practice. I feel as though I would be straying from the path if I discounted improvement/education opportunities such as these--especially if the goal is joy, bliss, ecstasy, and enlightenment.

All that said, I admit that as far as I can tell, I am a relative beginner. I could be completely wrong on all of this, and most likely at least somewhat incorrect.

[Jhanon]

Meditated about 7 hours total yesterday. The best results occurred during a 3-hour midnight session. The tactile charisms were strong, and each jhana developed slowly and fully. Upon reaching 3rd jhana, I actually found it's charisms to be too strong. It's subtle unsatisfactoriness eventually propelled me toward urgently looking for entrance to fourth jhana. Eventually I remembered to develop equanimity and let go further until I entered the 4th jhana. These slow-developing jhanas really gave me time to appreciate and analyze their primary qualities as described in the suttas.

Shortly after entering the 4th jhana, the same unsatisfactoriness of the last three jhanas, although even more subtle, surfaced. I was a bit surprised to be clearly observing unsatisfactoriness within even the 4th jhana. I suppose in the back of the mind I always assumed I would have a long honeymoon period with the first 4 jhanas until finally beginning to detect their subtle unsatisfactoriness. But, with the exception of the first days of consistent jhana which included a 5th samadhi experience, I have consistently found some subtle unsatisfactoriness.

I'm beginning to wonder if those with ADHD often have had some considerable spiritual attainment in past lives. I continue to feel a strong intuition that I have. Looking back on my youth, I have a hard time not being fairly certain I was in the dark night of the sense even at the age of 7, as that is as far back as I can remember. I at least know that I was having deep contemplative thoughts, confusion about the behavior of humans around me, ecstatic energy, and hypersensitivity to all phenomena. I and my mother even recall my hiding behind rocking chairs when they watched children's movies, and crying when the radio was turned on. Wow, what hell to be in a highly dysfunctional and abusive family while in the dark night.

I mention this because it seems I am never satisfied with any phenomena, almost all of the charismatic and definitely all of the mundane. I certainly appreciate charismatic and mundane phenomena, but I always strongly sense a longing for Home and/or the removal of this unsatisfactoriness. The only time I can ever recall not feeling any dissatisfaction is during super-strong blasts of kundalini. My dissatisfaction with everything else is driving me to push beyond my fear of it's profundity.

Because of this, last night I spent much time in 4th jhana attempting to gain intuitive knowledge into the nature of kundalini. Specifically, I wanted to learn to activate its presence whenever I needed it. I remember reading that in the 4th jhana it is possible to direct the mind toward insights like this. While it's possible this was commentary garbage, I seem to recall reading it in a sutta. "While in 4th jhana, the Buddha directed the mind toward knowledge of the arising and passing away of beings..etc..discernment was born, knowledge gained" something to that effect. Unfortunately, no such knowledge was gained.

I haven't pinned down why the charisms were so weak throughout the last few days, but I certainly re-affirmed how big an impact evening has. Perhaps it's simply the ebb and flow of the oceanic depths of the divine. Speaking of, I found a new pleasure last night when I recalled how inspiring the writings of Rumi are. So I wrote. This is what came of that inspiration:

"Ocean of Mind"

"One could spend a lifetime amassing great worldly wealth, knowledge and experience. Yet it would be but a handful of sand among all the deserts of the Earth. Its very nature to slip through clinging fingers ignored as one hurriedly reaches down for more under the delirium of the baking sun.

Just beyond the desert lie supreme wealth, knowledge, and experience within the absorbing oceanic depths of the mind. Patience and compassion is friend to those who discover and explore its vastness. For though the ocean-delver's only worldly wish is to share the discovery of the ocean with others, they know the great difficulty with which the desert-dweller will take heed.

Narrow are the creeks of human language which lead out of the desert into the ocean. And very few are they with the boats of discernment to negotiate the way. Although access to the ocean's ecstasy lie just under the nose of the human, for most it is still countless lifetimes away.

It is only ever here and now which one can catch scent of the soft caressing winds carrying even the lightest essence of the infinitely abundant ocean. Its effect so intoxicating and yet so sublime and familiar. The few who then step forward, relinquishing their coveted handful of sand, do so as they realize its only true value was in precious fleeting moments which vaguely reminded of their oceanic Home."

Perhaps some will find it pleasing to the mind as I have. Its wording may not be as appropriate to the experienced mystic as it could be, but to this novice it suffices.

I shouldn't find it odd that moving ever deeper into the mystical inspires and urges creative outlets. I find myself suddenly very curious about Jhananda's "A Stone Worn to Sand." Despite any shortcomings of the "Ocean of Mind", I found it deeply relieving and soothing to attempt to express the beauty, power and profundity of the experiences which this community has so generously helped me to move deeper into.