Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Case Histories with religious experiences => : Jhanon August 14, 2014, 04:12:27 AM
-
Hey GWV,
No, I'm not Cal. And I wasn't particularly enthusiastic about doing this, but I foresee trouble ahead for Cal if someone doesn't start this for him. He can beat me up or hate me if he wants to, but I am doing this out of love, and knowledge of what could happen if he doesn't get this ball rolling.
A few days ago, I guided Cal to the charisms. Since then, he's had an explosion of charismatic activity. Unfortunately, I can't get Cal to post his experiences. I suspect he's not used to trusting people he doesn't think he already knows, and because of how busy he is.
But that's part of the path, now isn't it? How do I know? Because I have a Native American friend who is also extremely gifted charismatically, and she tried to navigate the path on her own. She had some very dark and frightening experiences that have set her back some lifetimes (unless I'm able to successfully assist her before the end of this one.)
So, here's the break down. Cal works a lot. I mean, a lot. Over twice as much as an ordinary human. I suspect this is part of the reason he merely needed to become aware of the charisms and everything just blew up on him. Because he kept himself so busy that there was no time to notice.
Despite it only having been a few days since his "awakening", he's naturally reaching deep into the immaterial samadhi's with ease. In fact, he's seemingly doing so without the foundation of a still mind (according to his reports)--which I find particularly dangerous. Somehow he is experiencing the charismatic phenomena of 3rd and 4th jhana during the day, without any effort on his part. This includes blasts of kundalini energy and strong tactile (aura) sensation.
This is all based on what he has described to me. It's truly remarkable, and at the same time, concerning, as he has no intellectual foundation (the Noble Eightfold Path or whatever jives with him most), and is friends with only one Noble One (me). He claims to have no time to establish a foundation.
This is as far as I will go into detail, out of respect for his privacy. It is my hope that you all will give him a warm welcome, and ask him questions. I also hope that Valdy, Michael, or anyone else with this level of charismatic activity will relate to him until Jhananda returns. Because based on what Cal has told me, he is more charismatically gifted than I, and so is experiencing more phenomena than I. I feel inadequate to guide him effectively.
Please forgive me for anything I shouldn't have done. I can't stand the thought of him going down the route of some less fortunate friends I've seen.
-
Monday night was the third time I've meditated...ever. I'd like to share the experiences I had during the second and third times, which im going to almost write word for word from my journal. I'm struggling here to keep a grip on reality, I truly did not believe any of this was real...
8-4-2014
This is my second day of Meditation. I was able to reach Jhana 3 from the descriptions of Jhanananda. I wasn’t clear If I had reached Jhana 4 because I believe I had drifted in and out of sleep. A lot is unclear at this point. There was an almost blue flame like mesh that came from the outside of my closed eyes and engulfed all, became extremely bright, it formed a pearl almost and then everything went blank. I called to Jhanon again and I believe I was able to what im going to call sync with him. I think it has alot to do with him helping me. At least I think so, there wasn’t any music but I was hearing rock music. I meditated near the fish tank and the waterfall sound was a good source to drown out while I went through the other stages. The last song was “falling away from me” by Korn. I believe that Jhanon knows me in some point of my future. He was specific in saying that I was “down the path, whether I believed so or not”. He also said that if I chose not to meditate at this point in my life that I would anyway no later, or sometime around 15 years. Probably not, but something is strange about the situation. It's almost as if ive been here before, like its fate. Fate is an excuse. I wasn’t able to control my aura as fluid as I was the previous day, but it was with me the entire day. Lastly, I was trapped in sleep, when I tried to awake I split into what I believe was 2 separate mes where I stretched both of my arms out infront of me 2 different times. While I was trapped with one, the second repeated the action, they merged together, I awoke with both arms crossed in front of me to an extremely loud boom and the face of a vampire jumping at me.
8-11-2014
I decided to try meditation again tonight as i went to bed. As i layed there i started focusing on my breathing, deepening my breaths. It wasnt long that i was able to intensify my aura. I began to vibrate and soon after i could no longer feel my body.I wasnt able to still my mind this time fully. I kept conciously drifting my focus from my aura to my surroundings. probably because my wife and daughter were near me, i must keep them safe. the blueflame like thing came again, but it wouldnt fully engulf my vision like before. Something kept distracting me. I focused on my heart and made my aura stronger then everything stopped and lights flashed from the right to the left. I stopped breathing then came back. I focused again and it happened again. Same effect. I focused on my mother, i seen her silohette her figure, it was her. i came back with the same lights from the right to the left. I seen the face of Jesus when i focused again. Extremely detailed, vivid, i wsa awake and still not able to still my mind. If I were an artist i could recall this face and draw it to perfection. I focused again, still not able to still my thoughts. Several more times lights from right to left. Then more vivid faces started to appear, same as before extremely detailed....13 of them....demons. they came from the left corner as a ball of detailed faces, i did not acknowledge them but they were so real. one by one i willed one away for another to drift in, all different, ive never seen them before they were more detailed than my imagination could think them. why 13 of them? they came one at a time, stayed until i willed them away and the next would come the same way after....what the fuck!
This is directly from my journal after each experience minus some changing of names or the removal of...I appologize for the grammar. My aura stays with me always, it doesnt go away. It doesnt matter what im doing i feel it. When i focus on it i can make it hot. Not only that, but I get random instense vibrations from my neck at my shoulders to the very top of my head, when this happens tears fall without control. Vibrations probably isnt the right word, its more like tingling. I also get the rush of tingling less intense alot during the day without the tears, this happens when i try to remember something from meditation, or even just recalling memories from a few days ago. Mostly the last few days, and not as much in the begining. Ive been reading the last few hours trying to make sense of this and found this.
"Meditation Danger #5: Witnessing lower worlds If a meditator has a negative state of mind, he might get a glimpse of the lower worlds. She may see these worlds even when not in the meditative state. As some people get glimpses of the higher worlds without any warning, so do others see the worlds of lower vibrations. I once saw the higher world. I remember writing about it, but I can no longer remember how I named that blog post. Completely unexpectedly to me, my reality was replaced with a glimpse of the world where the surroundings had a very pleasant golden glow and the houses were extremely beautiful. Fortunately to me, I never witnessed the lower world. Why is seeing the lower worlds dangerous? The beings of the lower planes might frighten the meditator because of their negative energy and horrible appearances, to the extent that a meditator: -drops meditation practice -becomes insane -gets frightening dreams Also the meditator will feel the energy of the lower worlds, which could be much more negative and stronger than the energy of some places and persons in our world. Needless to say, this experience would be disturbing. Meditation Danger #6: Clear contacts from other worlds Meditation opens you up to perceiving non-physical phenomena. I have experienced many such phenomena during my meditation years. For example, sometimes I see dark energy blobs moving around or staying in one place. Sometimes I see dark, very defined shadows. Sometimes I see a white light or hear some sound with one ear, like a sudden shout or a whisper. At other times I feel wind when other people don’t feel it. Sometimes I even feel that someone is touching my arm or the third eye area. Why such contacts are dangerous I don’t feel frightened by such phenomena because I am prepared for it. I know that such events caused by meditation can’t harm you as long as your mind is strong and positive. But for people with weak minds or for complete meditation beginners, such experiences can be extremely frightening and may lead to the halt of the meditation practice."
I dont want to think that i have a weak mind, rather that its too much too fast...
-
I decided to try meditation again tonight as i went to bed. As i layed there i started focusing on my breathing, deepening my breaths. It wasnt long that i was able to intensify my aura. I began to vibrate and soon after i could no longer feel my body.I wasnt able to still my mind this time fully. I kept conciously drifting my focus from my aura to my surroundings. probably because my wife and daughter were near me, i must keep them safe. the blueflame like thing came again, but it wouldnt fully engulf my vision like before. Something kept distracting me. I focused on my heart and made my aura stronger then everything stopped and lights flashed from the right to the left. I stopped breathing then came back. I focused again and it happened again. Same effect. I focused on my mother, i seen her silohette her figure, it was her. i came back with the same lights from the right to the left. I seen the face of Jesus when i focused again. Extremely detailed, vivid, i wsa awake and still not able to still my mind. If I were an artist i could recall this face and draw it to perfection. I focused again, still not able to still my thoughts. Several more times lights from right to left. Then more vivid faces started to appear, same as before extremely detailed....13 of them....demons. they came from the left corner as a ball of detailed faces, i did not acknowledge them but they were so real. one by one i willed one away for another to drift in, all different, ive never seen them before they were more detailed than my imagination could think them. why 13 of them? they came one at a time, stayed until i willed them away and the next would come the same way after....what the fuck!
Yes, I remember that experience. I saw more than 13. Hundreds of faces keep appearing before me. Nothing to be afraid of. I cannot offer any explanations for their appearance. If I remember correctly, about 15 years ago in another yahoo forum which Jeff hosted, there are discussion about this phenomenon. As for seeing Jesus....there is a quote, "if you see buddha, kill it". I think it meant that it's created by our own minds. I saw buddha too.
This is my second day of Meditation. I was able to reach Jhana 3 from the descriptions of Jhanananda. I wasn’t clear If I had reached Jhana 4 because I believe I had drifted in and out of sleep. A lot is unclear at this point. There was an almost blue flame like mesh that came from the outside of my closed eyes and engulfed all, became extremely bright, it formed a pearl almost and then everything went blank. I called to Jhanon again and I believe I was able to what im going to call sync with him. I think it has alot to do with him helping me. At least I think so, there wasn’t any music but I was hearing rock music. I meditated near the fish tank and the waterfall sound was a good source to drown out while I went through the other stages. The last song was “falling away from me” by Korn. I believe that Jhanon knows me in some point of my future. He was specific in saying that I was “down the path, whether I believed so or not”. He also said that if I chose not to meditate at this point in my life that I would anyway no later, or sometime around 15 years. Probably not, but something is strange about the situation. It's almost as if ive been here before, like its fate. Fate is an excuse. I wasn’t able to control my aura as fluid as I was the previous day, but it was with me the entire day. Lastly, I was trapped in sleep, when I tried to awake I split into what I believe was 2 separate mes where I stretched both of my arms out infront of me 2 different times. While I was trapped with one, the second repeated the action, they merged together, I awoke with both arms crossed in front of me to an extremely loud boom and the face of a vampire jumping at me.
This seems like a classic OOBE. It might be scary for some. I think you are not ready but some people might bypass the first 4 jhanas and goes to the 5th.
As for the lower realms, have you tried focusing on your third eye area and and palms facing upwards while meditating. This is just only a suggestion. Try to reach the stage of equainimity. That is very important before OOBE, which will prepare you for that. I hope this could help you and take care. I don't understand what you mean by aura though.
-
When he says "aura", I'm almost positive he is referring to full-body tactile charism, the immaterial/subtle/energy body. Whatever.
Cal, this is why I wanted you to post. Because it will give you perspective and comfort. You see how gandarloda said the same thing I told you earlier. You need to practice the first 4 jhanas. A quick note: technically, when we say "jhana", we mean the material first 4 stages of the meditative absorption experience. When we say "samadhi", we tend to mean the latter 4 immaterial stages of absorption. But sometimes they are used interchangably. It doesn't really matter. What matters is the number of the stage.
The Buddha learned how to access the 5th-8th jhana/samadhi (which are the immaterial ones you appear to be experiencing), but he found it didn't lead to enlightenment. In other words, your out of body experiences will not lead to enlightenment. They are fantastic, and strange, and maybe even interesting--but they are dangerous to the untrained mind. Only jhana 1-4 can train the mind enough to navigate the latter four immaterial (OOB) levels.
The first four jhanas are still in the physical realm, and yet you experience non-physical phenomena. This allows the meditator to build their wisdom and insight by observing both the material and immaterial domains. It's like walking a tightrope. Without any meditation, you're just stuck as whatever being you are at the time. In this case, a human. With the 1st jhana, you've just barely got on the tightrope, but are leaning heavily to the material, human pit on the left. Once you get to 4th jhana, you are almost perfectly balanced. Then there is an intermediary level between 4th, which is the last material jhana, and 5th, the first immaterial jhana/samadhi.
In other words, transcendence, insight, wisdom, liberation, and mind-blinding bliss can occur between the 4th and 5th level. But that only happens from training in the 4th jhana.
So, you should be focusing on cultivating the first 4 jhanas. When you feel yourself shaking or leaving your body, I think you'll want to bring your mind back to the physical realm by searching for any physical sensation (probably tactile, like the feeling of your physical skin) that you can find.
And yes, in my experience, just like psychedlics, your mind state (positive or negative) will determine what you feel and experience; not only in meditation, but in life. If I am in 4th jhana, and move my mind to think of something I want to see or know; it will manifest.
-
I'm so tired, man. I don't know why, but since your awakening, I've felt tired, dazed, and can't think straight. So, I'm going to sleep. But, despite my state, I'm doing my best to help you. From this point forward, I think your wisest course of action is finding out how to stay in the first 4 jhanas.
Just so you know, we use the Buddha's terms because he was so thorough, consistent and precise in what he taught. Most major religions had or have mystics who experience similar things, or become enlightened.
-
Wow Cal I am surprised. My blood pressure was rising as I was reading your story. Images came into my mind which quite vividly put me into your perspective (especially the vampire face for some reason). Maybe it's a lesson for vanity..I dunno. An honest recollection is worth more than a lifetime, and for that I thank you for sharing your experiences :). I can assure you that simply writing your thoughts down (or typing them) is sufficient in bringing your point across, as I know many are actively reading texts. I hope you continue to share as I feel it will be very beneficial for yourself and others as well.
I personally have kept a document on my computer to which I allow myself to simply type what is on my mind, regardless if it makes sense or not.. I just type. It helps me keep tabs on how my mind has been developing throughout the day, which I find is very important for maintaining "stability".
Relating to your images of demons or the like appearing, I remember one dream I had where there was a little gathering of rather hideous creatures (5 of them). I remember having a rather calm demeanor towards them, although I acknowledged they were there. 2 of them had to leave, i.e not return, for some reason and so they left. One of them, and I kid you not, was being explained to me as having "enjoyed Barney more than you as a kid", and I remember feeling rather sad at their departure having known that they were inherently good. Anyways, this is somewhat off-topic, but I felt like saying it so there it is.
I would suspect that you are in good hands here. I'm fairly new, but I feel good about this.
-
Well said, Aldo! Well said, indeed.
-
A very warm welcome to the forum, Cal.
Your experiences are incredible. You are a natural. Very few people experience what you have.
I would encourage you to explore your experiences relative to the experiences of others here on the forum. An excellent place to start are the discussions under "Case Histories with religious experiences":
http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/board,33.0.html
Also see the discussions on the out-of-body-experiences: http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/board,15.0.html
Here you should develop an understanding of what has happened to you, and you'll get to know the members of this forum.
Strive to keep your mind in the present moment throughout the day. There is an excellent book on the subject titled "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. It is well written, full of wisdom, and a great joy to read. But try not to think of it as the gospel. It's available from Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Now-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808
-
Monday night was the third time I've meditated...ever. I'd like to share the experiences I had during the second and third times, which im going to almost write word for word from my journal. I'm struggling here to keep a grip on reality, I truly did not believe any of this was real...
8-4-2014
This is my second day of Meditation. I was able to reach Jhana 3 from the descriptions of Jhanananda. I wasn’t clear If I had reached Jhana 4 because I believe I had drifted in and out of sleep. A lot is unclear at this point. There was an almost blue flame like mesh that came from the outside of my closed eyes and engulfed all, became extremely bright, it formed a pearl almost and then everything went blank.
The blue pearl, and in some traditions, yellow, or gold, is known in Pali-based Buddhism as a "kasina." The blue/yellow pearl is a big deal in Ajhan Brahm's tradition.
In my experience with the blue/yellow pearl is that it is the door-way into the immaterial domains. When it arises one is typically in the 4th jhana, and moving toward the 5th samadhi, which is an OOBE. Often people who are not ready for the immaterial domains will fall asleep, as you did. To prepare yourself better for these deeper states you will want to take up a daily meditation practice.
I called to Jhanon again and I believe I was able to what im going to call sync with him. I think it has alot to do with him helping me. At least I think so, there wasn’t any music but I was hearing rock music. I meditated near the fish tank and the waterfall sound was a good source to drown out while I went through the other stages. The last song was “falling away from me” by Korn. I believe that Jhanon knows me in some point of my future. He was specific in saying that I was “down the path, whether I believed so or not”. He also said that if I chose not to meditate at this point in my life that I would anyway no later, or sometime around 15 years. Probably not, but something is strange about the situation. It's almost as if ive been here before, like its fate. Fate is an excuse. I wasn’t able to control my aura as fluid as I was the previous day, but it was with me the entire day.
It is my hypothesis that those who come to the charisms quickly and easily, as you and I, and many of the people on this forum have; must have had a previous lifetime as a rigorous, self-aware contemplative who meditated at depth. This hypothesis is supported in a number of mystical literature.
Lastly, I was trapped in sleep, when I tried to awake I split into what I believe was 2 separate mes where I stretched both of my arms out infront of me 2 different times. While I was trapped with one, the second repeated the action, they merged together, I awoke with both arms crossed in front of me to an extremely loud boom and the face of a vampire jumping at me.
This is all classic early OOBE phenomena.
8-11-2014
I decided to try meditation again tonight as i went to bed. As i layed there i started focusing on my breathing, deepening my breaths. It wasnt long that i was able to intensify my aura. I began to vibrate and soon after i could no longer feel my body.I wasnt able to still my mind this time fully. I kept conciously drifting my focus from my aura to my surroundings. probably because my wife and daughter were near me, i must keep them safe. the blueflame like thing came again, but it wouldnt fully engulf my vision like before. Something kept distracting me. I focused on my heart and made my aura stronger then everything stopped and lights flashed from the right to the left. I stopped breathing then came back. I focused again and it happened again. Same effect. I focused on my mother, i seen her silohette her figure, it was her. i came back with the same lights from the right to the left. I seen the face of Jesus when i focused again. Extremely detailed, vivid, i wsa awake and still not able to still my mind. If I were an artist i could recall this face and draw it to perfection. I focused again, still not able to still my thoughts.
This is classic remote viewing, which we have discussed recently here on another thread.
Several more times lights from right to left. Then more vivid faces started to appear, same as before extremely detailed....13 of them....demons. they came from the left corner as a ball of detailed faces, i did not acknowledge them but they were so real. one by one i willed one away for another to drift in, all different, ive never seen them before they were more detailed than my imagination could think them. why 13 of them? they came one at a time, stayed until i willed them away and the next would come the same way after....what the fuck!
When one opens the door to the immaterial, then one opens that door to everything, from hell to heaven. So, one needs lots of equanimity to deal with the evil that one will encounter in the immaterial domains; thus one needs a very rigorous contemplative lifestyle to developed the equanimity that one will need to deal with legions of demons, not just 13.
This is directly from my journal after each experience minus some changing of names or the removal of...I appologize for the grammar. My aura stays with me always, it doesnt go away. It doesnt matter what im doing i feel it. When i focus on it i can make it hot. Not only that, but I get random instense vibrations from my neck at my shoulders to the very top of my head, when this happens tears fall without control. Vibrations probably isnt the right word, its more like tingling. I also get the rush of tingling less intense alot during the day without the tears, this happens when i try to remember something from meditation, or even just recalling memories from a few days ago. Mostly the last few days, and not as much in the begining. Ive been reading the last few hours trying to make sense of this and found this.
This is all very good for a dedicated contemplative, but might be difficult for a householder to deal with. Our goal is just to keep our attending at all times upon these phenomena, which are called 'charisms' in Chrisitianity, and 'nimitta' in the Pali Canon.
Thank-you firends for helpping Cal to understand these phenomena. I just got back from 2 days of camping and plan to head off for about a week more, so I do not expect to check in for that long. Love to all.
-
The last 2 days my meditation sessions have been harder to keep at. Perhaps when I go in for my sit, I am already very tired, and this makes me restless. I am, however, surprised to find I am able to absorb and progress, even faster than I have been able to in the past. I am just not able to be satisfied within, my patience is less than before...Even now, after a 30 minute session, I am still absorbed much more than usual. I see the pearl every sit, within an hour, still dont like it.
On a side note, I found a good friend expressing interest in Indigo children and broached a gradually intuitive conversation. He was receptive while apprehensive, but he is strong minded. He also had an understanding, I believe he is ready and intend to help him find his answers, when he asks the question.
Tomorrow I will take a good amount of time and spend it in absorption...no excuses!
Oh, this reminds me, is it heard of to remote view or even possibly be in the 7th samahdi outside of meditation/full enlightenment? I have seen an outline of a faceless person in the 3rd jhana, I think Jhanananda had said it was remote viewing. A person I know had described this very accurately during daily activity.
-
Oh, this reminds me, is it heard of to remote view or even possibly be in the 7th samahdi outside of meditation/full enlightenment? I have seen an outline of a faceless person in the 3rd jhana, I think Jhanananda had said it was remote viewing. A person I know had described this very accurately during daily activity.
Good to see you making progress, Cal. Progress just takes patience, and stick-to-it-iveness.
Yes, in my experience once one has mastered the lower 4 stages of the religious experience one can remote view in an instant, by just directing one's attention to any subject.
No, the 4 upper stages of the religious experience are all OOBEs, which means one is wholly unaware of the external sensory domain.
-
I am not this body. It's drive home, I observed it. I am not this body. I observe its actions, it's reactions, it's daily life.
I can see it. Thats why it feels us. We are inside of everything. It looked to the sky and said, "This is where "I'm" from" I said "No." and showed it where I'm from.
-
I've begun relying on intuition, in the form of a kundalini sensation proceeding a thought of a path, a direction, or an action. It reminds me of a thread, with discussion of sychronicity. Although I cant say there have been any "simultaneous occurrence of events" associated directly with this. Only, there have been indicators that have only been realized in reflection. For example, I will note in my journal that I experienced kundalini after bringing thought to a specific course of action. Later I will revisit this entry, or post and realize that it was the correct course in which to follow. Now I may be able to disprove this, and instead attribute it to contemplation and guidance, yet none of this explains the kundalini...is this a religous phenomena?
One specific intuition that I speak of, was to ask Jhanananda's help and guidance in retrieving repressed memories, of this life. Ones of my childhood. The context of progression was recollection of past lives and deeply rooted traits(ego). The kundalini sensation came when I brought to thought "he would be able to do so". It also came when the thought "those memories are the key to progression".
-
It appears there is a new, higher pitched audible charism. Only in the left ear, as the previous started. I might add I had been having a duller ringing for quite some time in the ears. It started with the left ear, and then went to both. After further focus, there is now two. The higher pitched only resides in the left ear.
-
The first meditation sit of today produced 4th Jhana. While just "being" I was aware of visual phenomena under the eyelids, as in other meditation sits, yet I was more observant. It appears the "darkness" is of lower realms, and the "light" is of the higher realms. I've also noticed something of a "tunnel" when moving very quickly towards the distinctions. There also appears to be hues of darkness and light. for example on the other side of the first upward tunnel was of a goldish hue, while the one above was closer to that of a dulled snow white. I have no idea why my mind wishes to view the lower, yet it did. Back through the tunnel I went to darkness. I could move my awareness to an upper area and see light. So while in the upper, it feels there is no restriction of "movement" yet in the lower I literally visualized hitting my head on something, several times. I tried something and it seemed to work. I focused energy from my base and moved it up and out the crown, it returned me to a neutral space with equal parts light and dark.
Ive also noticed a bad pressure in the third eye. I tried directing my energy flow through it, but its clogged, not fully allowing and the energy. Instead it escapes through the crown. Also my visualization of the previous experience was very obscure, and blurred. This is what leads me to believe the 3rd eye is "clogged". Can anyone offer some advice to this problem?
Thanks again GWV
-
I've begun relying on intuition, in the form of a kundalini sensation proceeding a thought of a path, a direction, or an action. It reminds me of a thread, with discussion of sychronicity. Although I cant say there have been any "simultaneous occurrence of events" associated directly with this. Only, there have been indicators that have only been realized in reflection. For example, I will note in my journal that I experienced kundalini after bringing thought to a specific course of action. Later I will revisit this entry, or post and realize that it was the correct course in which to follow. Now I may be able to disprove this, and instead attribute it to contemplation and guidance, yet none of this explains the kundalini...is this a religous phenomena?
One specific intuition that I speak of, was to ask Jhanananda's help and guidance in retrieving repressed memories, of this life. Ones of my childhood. The context of progression was recollection of past lives and deeply rooted traits(ego). The kundalini sensation came when I brought to thought "he would be able to do so". It also came when the thought "those memories are the key to progression".
Hi Cal,
As I demonstrated in the "Totality if Charismatic Body and Phenomena" thread, it has been my experience that kundalini is accompanied by direct two way communication to the highest Force available. I consider it paramount to pursue such communication.
http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,816.msg4224.html#new
A little over 4 years of experience is the basis of my affirmation. I used to make music following the kundalini communication line throughout the entire construction of a song. It was blissful.
-
Yea I read that, thanks man =) Some of it is unknown to me, yet other parts of it are clear as day.
-
The first meditation sit of today produced 4th Jhana. While just "being" I was aware of visual phenomena under the eyelids, as in other meditation sits, yet I was more observant. It appears the "darkness" is of lower realms, and the "light" is of the higher realms. I've also noticed something of a "tunnel" when moving very quickly towards the distinctions. There also appears to be hues of darkness and light. for example on the other side of the first upward tunnel was of a goldish hue, while the one above was closer to that of a dulled snow white. I have no idea why my mind wishes to view the lower, yet it did.
It's been my repeat experience that in jhana we dive into deeper layers of normally unconscious conditioning. Each deeper jhana corresponds with deeper stillness and therefor more apparent experience of that conditioning. As you also know, our unconscious conditioning comes from our past beliefs and thoughts. What our unconscious conditioning for each layer/jhana resonates with will then lead to manifestation of it. In other words, if the majority of your major beliefs and thoughts from the past resonate with lower level beings, then you will most often experience lower level beings and phenomena in samadhi/jhana until it is resolved.
Also, since lower level beings have greater ignorance and lack of clarity, this is likely to explain the "3rd eye" obscurity. Despite this, If you left the body, it would most likely be clearer. Additionally, in my experience, a lack of clarity when it comes to charisms such as "third eye" vision is the result of drugs, diet, dark night, or other major conflict.
This doesn't necessarily mean you'll always experience such things. And there are many other causes at work. But, because of knowledge of others who in their early days were frightened off their path and even into psychiatric care due to repeat experiences of lower level phenomena, I wanted to make sure the mechanics were known.
-
The first meditation sit of today produced 4th Jhana. While just "being" I was aware of visual phenomena under the eyelids, as in other meditation sits, yet I was more observant. It appears the "darkness" is of lower realms, and the "light" is of the higher realms. I've also noticed something of a "tunnel" when moving very quickly towards the distinctions. There also appears to be hues of darkness and light. for example on the other side of the first upward tunnel was of a goldish hue, while the one above was closer to that of a dulled snow white. I have no idea why my mind wishes to view the lower, yet it did.
It's been my repeat experience that in jhana we dive into deeper layers of normally unconscious conditioning. Each deeper jhana corresponds with deeper stillness and therefor more apparent experience of that conditioning. As you also know, our unconscious conditioning comes from our past beliefs and thoughts. What our unconscious conditioning for each layer/jhana resonates with will then lead to manifestation of it. In other words, if the majority of your major beliefs and thoughts from the past resonate with lower level beings, then you will most often experience lower level beings and phenomena in samadhi/jhana until it is resolved.
Well this makes sense. I had always been afraid of these things. In times past I've had experience when I thought I've seen them. Mostly as a child. So yea, thanks for that. =) It makes sense.
Also, since lower level beings have greater ignorance and lack of clarity, this is likely to explain the "3rd eye" obscurity. Despite this, If you left the body, it would most likely be clearer. Additionally, in my experience, a lack of clarity when it comes to charisms such as "third eye" vision is the result of drugs, diet, dark night, or other major conflict.
This doesn't necessarily mean you'll always experience such things. And there are many other causes at work. But, because of knowledge of others who in their early days were frightened off their path and even into psychiatric care due to repeat experiences of lower level phenomena, I wanted to make sure the mechanics were known.
I am not entirely sure I can relate the pressure or obscureness to just the lower realms, though. It was also very much present and "blurry" in the upper ones as well. So, there are no longer drugs, the diet is "meh" (I can work on that), dark night is ever present, no? And all conflict has been resolved with equanimity. Not to say that there is not a conflict "with me". It seems at any given chance those around me seem to be in conflict with my actions or lack thereof. I dont follow their rules, they dont like it. Yet its possible I have become "relaxed" with my own internal conflict. I am very content.
So, theres some good food here-correct the mindset, correct the diet. Thanks =)
-
There are still unconscious behaviors, thoughts and beliefs that are impacting you--unless you are Arahant. That's the cause for obscurity. The obscurity manifests just like experiences of lower level beings--unconscious thoughts, behaviors and beliefs that resonate with lower levels. it doesn't necessarily have to be lower level beings you are experiencing when obscurity is present. Everything becomes clearer and clearer as we uncover and bring the unconscious behaviors in the light of awareness. But most of it is under a huge pile. Like looking for your second sock to a pair--LOL.
-
I'm sure you'd like a response from the others, and I am sorry they haven't. But I do want to help, especially when I know answers you seem to be looking for.
-
There are still unconscious behaviors, thoughts and beliefs that are impacting you--unless you are Arahant. That's the cause for obscurity. The obscurity manifests just like experiences of lower level beings--unconscious thoughts, behaviors and beliefs that resonate with lower levels. it doesn't necessarily have to be lower level beings you are experiencing when obscurity is present. Everything becomes clearer and clearer as we uncover and bring the unconscious behaviors in the light of awareness. But most of it is under a huge pile. Like looking for your second sock to a pair--LOL.
Again, thank you Jhanon. I know that I am not Arahant. I hope that I wasnt giving that impression. I guess what I was looking for in my question was more specific guidance. I thought there might be an exercise or something to clear it up. Yet I will accept that it will become clearer as more fetters drop away. Thank you again, Jhanon.
-
I think you are progressing nicely. The ringing of the ear should be outside and not inside of the ear. Check to see if you have high blood pressure. That would cause tinnitus also. The "tunnel" that you've mentioned shows that you are progressing to another level. Cheers
Note : I don't think the classification of attainment is not important at all. The word arahant have been used quite often and through this thread. I think that one should focus on the meditation and not that desire of being an arahant or not. That is counterproductive.
-
After further contemplation of the events, and your help Jhanon, I think I understand what it is. I am remote viewing them, the immaterial domains. The pressure in my third eye, is most likely caused by not being out of body. Perhaps with more exploration of this it will become clearer. See, in the 4th jhana the "spaceship" pearl would always appear, as it did during this meditation sit. Yet instead of the "time stop" that occurred before, I simply followed it. I said "oh, I see you, where do you go?" Oh that video I posted earlier, there was a path that lead to a cave, I dont remember exactly which one, perhaps the temple in Cambodia. I seen this "shape" during meditation, it was like an offshaped pearl of a yellow/golden hue. It was the one I grasped and followed through the first upward tunnel. I got a "chill" when I seen the entrance to this cave as the shape of it was almost exactly the shape which I had seen in meditation. I don't know how much I should read into that...yea it could be taken as synchronicitiy. I watched the video right after meditating too. It was the Youtube video in the post "The mind unleashed" in the general tab of the forum. The video was about the pyramids and thier astrological alignments to Orions belt. The temple in Cambodia was aligned with the group of draco, the sphinx with leo etc. It was a very imformative video. They spoke alot about the signifigance of 10500BC. The strangest thing though, and what probably had me hooked on the presentation, was the religous aspect. All of these places were constructed with the intent of spiritual immortality. I have an inclination to visit this temple in Cambodia...
-
I think you are progressing nicely. The ringing of the ear should be outside and not inside of the ear. Check to see if you have high blood pressure. That would cause tinnitus also. The "tunnel" that you've mentioned shows that you are progressing to another level. Cheers
Note : I don't think the classification of attainment is not important at all. The word arahant have been used quite often and through this thread. I think that one should focus on the meditation and not that desire of being an arahant or not. That is counterproductive.
Thank you Gandarloda. I think the ringing is of charismatic as it is not always present. It will come when I am on the forum, about to read something, and devote my attention to it. It will come as I absorb deeper and see something, and bring my attention to it. As it comes, it gets louder, the more i focus, the louder it gets. Yet to error on the safe side, Ill get my blood pressure checked. I cant distinguish whether or not it is inside the ear or outside. Thank you for affirming the tunnel ;D
I agree about the classification, yet i've used it as a benchmark to which of my "issues" to focus on next. The words truly hold little meaning to me. Thanks again Gandarloda.
-
I've begun relying on intuition, in the form of a kundalini sensation proceeding a thought of a path, a direction, or an action.
This is a critical part of the contemplative life, where we look to our intuition for guidance.
Now I may be able to disprove this, and instead attribute it to contemplation and guidance, yet none of this explains the kundalini...is this a religous phenomena?
The Sanskrit term 'kundalini' has been applied broadly to encompass all religious phenomena; however, its original use was to replace an earlier term 'virya,' which referred specifically to the energy component in the religious experience. We have a section here on kundalini (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/board,6.0.html). There is also an essay on the GWV website on Energy, Kundalini, vîrya, viriya (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/kundalini.htm).
One specific intuition that I speak of, was to ask Jhanananda's help and guidance in retrieving repressed memories, of this life. Ones of my childhood. The context of progression was recollection of past lives and deeply rooted traits(ego). The kundalini sensation came when I brought to thought "he would be able to do so". It also came when the thought "those memories are the key to progression".
Yes, retrieving repressed memories, of this life, as well as past lives is also a critical skill developed by contemplatives. You can examine remote viewing on this forum, and Recollection of Past Lives (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,8.0.html) here. and Recollection of Past Lives (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/recollection.htm) on the GWV website.
It appears there is a new, higher pitched audible charism. Only in the left ear, as the previous started. I might add I had been having a duller ringing for quite some time in the ears. It started with the left ear, and then went to both. After further focus, there is now two. The higher pitched only resides in the left ear.
As we progress to deeper stages of meditation the charism of sound does go through frequency shifts, and those shifts tend to increase in frequency and amplitude.
The first meditation sit of today produced 4th Jhana. While just "being" I was aware of visual phenomena under the eyelids, as in other meditation sits, yet I was more observant. It appears the "darkness" is of lower realms, and the "light" is of the higher realms.
Correct, the "darkness" is of lower realms, and the "light" is of the higher realms, so if you put your attention upon the light, then you will rise to higher realms. This is exactly what one would want to do upon death to move to a higher realm of existence after death.
I've also noticed something of a "tunnel" when moving very quickly towards the distinctions.
The "tunnel" is the doorway out of the body. At some point you will be able to move your awareness through that tunnel, and go anywhere in the physical, or spiritual universe you wish to go instantly.
Ive also noticed a bad pressure in the third eye. I tried directing my energy flow through it, but its clogged, not fully allowing and the energy. Instead it escapes through the crown. Also my visualization of the previous experience was very obscure, and blurred. This is what leads me to believe the 3rd eye is "clogged". Can anyone offer some advice to this problem?
Thanks again GWV
Through leading a rigorous, self-aware, disciplined, contemplative life you will purify all of your chakras. You do not have to make them clean. It will just be done so. Also, the deeper we go in the contemplative life the less we make things happen, and the more we just allow them to happen.
-
An odd event today. I dreamed that I had stepped outside my front door, to see that my truck was gone. The place that is used to sit was "made noticible" im not exactly sure by what. I turned to go back inside, and looked back to see my truck had returned, but the bed of it was empty. I woke up to a phone call from my sister, asking me to help her move to a new home, just out of the blue.
I've had other events like this in the recent months, and recall past Dejavu's as well.
-
I found the more we meditate deeper the more intuitive, revelatory insight we acquire, which can include increased lucidity in the sleep domain, which can bring prophetic dreams, even if those prophetic dreams are rather mundane about it is time to clear the truck bed so that you help your sister move.
-
I found the more we meditate deeper the more intuitive, revelatory insight we acquire, which can include increased lucidity in the sleep domain, which can bring prophetic dreams, even if those prophetic dreams are rather mundane about it is time to clear the truck bed so that you help your sister move.
I'd take the truck bed over a possible future death any day ^_^
An odd event today. I dreamed that I had stepped outside my front door, to see that my truck was gone. The place that is used to sit was "made noticible" im not exactly sure by what. I turned to go back inside, and looked back to see my truck had returned, but the bed of it was empty. I woke up to a phone call from my sister, asking me to help her move to a new home, just out of the blue.
I've had other events like this in the recent months, and recall past Dejavu's as well.
Well done, or, congratulations? Not sure the right way to say that in this situation.
-
I found the more we meditate deeper the more intuitive, revelatory insight we acquire, which can include increased lucidity in the sleep domain, which can bring prophetic dreams, even if those prophetic dreams are rather mundane about it is time to clear the truck bed so that you help your sister move.
I'd take the truck bed over a possible future death any day ^_^
Yea, some of my dreams have definitely been those of an unsettling sort. For a time, they really impacted me. A friend of ours brought up a good point once, that there are signs pointing to the correct direction all around us.
I went camping a few weeks ago to one of my favorite camping spots. This is a place secluded, way off the beaten path, on the bank of the Snake river. When pulling into the camp area, I noticed a young owl, trapped in some fishing line, hanging about 15ft in the air from a tree branch. I cant say how long the owl had been there. The odd thing about it, is it had that same "feeling" to it, something made me take notice of it. I freed the owl from the fishing line, and it flew away. The things that were most apparent with the owl, is it never broke eye contact with me, I felt as though, when I absorbed, I could comfort, and even communicate with the owl.
That same friend pointed out that the owl is a pretty symbolic of wisdom, and that I should take message. "Wisdom is bound right above you, you only need to free it." The discussion furthered some into that there are no such things as coincedence, all things are meant to happen how they happen...its rather humbling.
Well done, or, congratulations? Not sure the right way to say that in this situation.
Thanks! :P So heres another kicker. When I wake up in the morning, im always fully absorbed. Sometimes it is the 4th Jhana, others the 3rd, but it is, of course, a great way to wake. With that said, Id say it is pretty safe to assume, that I am absorbed while asleep, and most often go OOB. Its just fate that determines what adventure awaits when I close my eyes :D Now the trick is to remember everything, and experience it! =)
-
Yea, some of my dreams have definitely been those of an unsettling sort. For a time, they really impacted me. A friend of ours brought up a good point once, that there are signs pointing to the correct direction all around us.
I will agree with this. We just need to be self-aware enough to recognize the wisdom when it comes our way. We get there by meditating deeply on a consistent basis.
I went camping a few weeks ago to one of my favorite camping spots. This is a place secluded, way off the beaten path, on the bank of the Snake river. When pulling into the camp area, I noticed a young owl, trapped in some fishing line, hanging about 15ft in the air from a tree branch. I cant say how long the owl had been there. The odd thing about it, is it had that same "feeling" to it, something made me take notice of it. I freed the owl from the fishing line, and it flew away. The things that were most apparent with the owl, is it never broke eye contact with me, I felt as though, when I absorbed, I could comfort, and even communicate with the owl.
I am glad you rescued the owl, and the experience paid you back 10-fold.
That same friend pointed out that the owl is a pretty symbolic of wisdom, and that I should take message. "Wisdom is bound right above you, you only need to free it." The discussion furthered some into that there are no such things as coincedence, all things are meant to happen how they happen...its rather humbling.
I am not big on finding symbolism everywhere. I just take every thing as it comes. Sometimes that means wisdom comes from the oddest experiences.
Thanks! :P So heres another kicker. When I wake up in the morning, im always fully absorbed. Sometimes it is the 4th Jhana, others the 3rd, but it is, of course, a great way to wake. With that said, Id say it is pretty safe to assume, that I am absorbed while asleep, and most often go OOB. Its just fate that determines what adventure awaits when I close my eyes :D Now the trick is to remember everything, and experience it! =)
This is a good sign of leading a fruitful rigorous, self-aware contemplative life.
-
Well that was an interesting journey last night. In the recent months, I have avoided absorbing outside of meditation before bed. The reason for this is it can be inconsistent, and also that I am required to be "productive" in this time-frame. Sometimes I do not have a choice. Just before bed I thought to myself that I need to sleep as there are thing required of me in the morning. Hahaha this was a bad idea as before I was able to fall asleep, without meditating, I became aware of a shit storm. My normal snow-white/black/grey visual field turned blood red. I've never experienced this before. I smelled piss and tasted it. My entire body burned more that Id ever felt. This experience started in the 3rd Jhana but quickly regressed back to the first, and oh man, I did not want to be there lol. My heart was pounding, I felt pressures in places I hadnt before. I felt what felt like a breath on my cheek. I am thankful in that I was able to regain myself by willing myself to meditate. Things calmed after around 3 hours, and the meditation was deep. The fun didnt stop there haha. When I finally fell "asleep" I began flashing in and out of lucid states. I recorded them in my journal, and in reflection I've been able to kinda piece them together. Something of note, the perception of the mind in these events can skew them, as set and setting, for some, are a perceptual response to the visual stimulus. Which is true in my case. So finally this lucid state rested in a longer event. After piecing it together, it came to me looking at my resting body. I was looking at the back of my body, and yet I was feeling kundalini energy, that was felt by my body, and yet it was also felt in the observer that was looking at the back of my body (lol). AMAZING experience. It was intense, and blissful. Surprisingly it as only felt in the back from the low spine to the top of the head. Oddly, I got a flash of a visual while this was occuring, it was much like a thousand hands stimulating the entire area of my back. It gets better, now while in this lucid state, after the kundalini the visual of a family picture flashed before me, and I knew I could leave. Without any hesitation I left. Heres the weird part though, I left from the observer that was observing my body, and the observer became as husk. LOL wtf? So when i was "out" I experimented, and learned I could fly. I did this much in the way I move energy around my body, but heres another kicker, i felt it in my physical body. So i kinda bobbed up and down until I figured out how to run with it. The second I figured it out I was gone, straight into the sky, I wanted to see the stars. I felt it all, the change in atmosphere, the chillness, and in reflection, this was the problem. The thought gripped me "Is it going to hurt when I leave the atmosphere?", and disappeared I did. I woke and tossed and turned for next few hours contemplating.
So ya, good times. ;D
-
You are so fortunate to have learned what it is like with and without formal meditation practice.
-
There is so much that I don't understand. This entire event was a "blur". Yet there is some distinction. I wasnt alone when I left, yet when I did leave, I was like a dog off of a chain, I took off. In order to sustain that experience would require a depth of equanimity I do not know yet. So im torn between fight or flight here, but I think that establishment of deeper equanimity is what I need. Thank you Jhananada, your words are encouraging. It has been with your help and guidance that these experiences are even possible.
-
This stage you're in, is when the next stage is OOBE or 5th jhana. I've been through this also.
-
There is so much that I don't understand. This entire event was a "blur". Yet there is some distinction. I wasnt alone when I left, yet when I did leave, I was like a dog off of a chain, I took off. In order to sustain that experience would require a depth of equanimity I do not know yet. So im torn between fight or flight here, but I think that establishment of deeper equanimity is what I need. Thank you Jhananada, your words are encouraging. It has been with your help and guidance that these experiences are even possible.
Yes, one needs a great deal of equanimity to negotiate the immaterial attainments. It is found through regular daily practice in deep meditation to the 4th stages.
This stage you're in, is when the next stage is OOBE or 5th jhana. I've been through this also.
Yes, I found one stumbles upon the immaterial domains at increasing intervals as one masters the 4 jhanas. So, when full mastery of the 4 jhanas is accomplished, then one can traverse the infinite layers of the immaterial domains with ease, without acquiring attached evil spirits along the way. Equanimity is the key.
-
There is so much that I don't understand. This entire event was a "blur". Yet there is some distinction. I wasnt alone when I left, yet when I did leave, I was like a dog off of a chain, I took off. In order to sustain that experience would require a depth of equanimity I do not know yet. So im torn between fight or flight here, but I think that establishment of deeper equanimity is what I need. Thank you Jhananada, your words are encouraging. It has been with your help and guidance that these experiences are even possible.
Yes, one needs a great deal of equanimity to negotiate the immaterial attainments. It is found through regular daily practice in deep meditation to the 4th stages.
This stage you're in, is when the next stage is OOBE or 5th jhana. I've been through this also.
Yes, I found one stumbles upon the immaterial domains at increasing intervals as one masters the 4 jhanas. So, when full mastery of the 4 jhanas is accomplished, then one can traverse the infinite layers of the immaterial domains with ease, without acquiring attached evil spirits along the way. Equanimity is the key.
Foolishly I wonder how deep I've fallen to encounter this. What would it be like without "interventions". Something tells me this battle has be fought 1000 times before, and lost. Furthermore, I believe it will be fought again, and again, and again...That level of brilliance, of mastery, I can't even comprehend that. But I can endure, and I will. I wept today in reflection, you went through this alone? It stokes an anger in me, one im trying not to let define. But it is encouraging. Thank you so much.
-
Foolishly I wonder how deep I've fallen to encounter this. What would it be like without "interventions". Something tells me this battle has be fought 1000 times before, and lost. Furthermore, I believe it will be fought again, and again, and again...That level of brilliance, of mastery, I can't even comprehend that. But I can endure, and I will. I wept today in reflection, you went through this alone? It stokes an anger in me, one im trying not to let define. But it is encouraging. Thank you so much.
Yes, I made the journey alone on the material domains, but the immaterial domains team with beings, and I had many guides there. On the other hand I had the guidance of the the writing of the mystics to guide me, all be it they were in most cases grossly mistranslated.
The interior journey through the 8 stages of depth in meditation is something everyone who becomes liberated and enlightened must traverse, and we all do it alone, whether we have a living master as a guide or not. Although it is certainly easier to have one to guide us, who has traversed the way ahead of us.
-
This stage you're in, is when the next stage is OOBE or 5th jhana. I've been through this also.
Sam, I'm curious, are your experiences with OOBE's as convoluted as mine? As if one was to say ripped from a reality of reality, or a dream within a dream of a dream? For me attempting to unravel them it is quite the task, just curious if there is an acclimation to this that makes them more discernable? Or does one relinquish a previous "reality" so that it is no longer a part of the equation?
I would like to note also that I put alot of emphasis on a "pearl" of golden light, Ive even called it a spaceship in the past lol. However, It may be that I am no longer "looking" for this, so I no longer see this? It seems that the visual field itself, in a deep meditation, has become more vivid, and no longer contains the golden hued shapes, but rather forms.
-
I've always have lucid dreams since when I was a child. They all seem so fantastic but there is always the few that are recurring. The stages that you have experienced is what I have experienced. I just accepted it and then it proceeds from there until I see all the glowing swirls becomes a tunnel and I went in. That's the OOBE. I've never placed much meaning or emphasis in dreams. To be crude, I don't really bother. Please note that I live in Asia and most of us know something about this sort of things. That's for the older generation. That all happened before I met Jeff or this forum.
The pearl is always present when I close or open my eyes. Nowadays is not very apparent. Yes, you can see shadowy forms at this stage.
-
I've always have lucid dreams since when I was a child. They all seem so fantastic but there is always the few that are recurring. The stages that you have experience is what I have experienced. I just accepted it and then it proceeds from there until I see all the glowing swirls becomes a tunnel and I went in.
That's the OOBE. I've never placed much meaning or emphasis in dreams. To be crude, I don't really bother.
The pearl is always present when I close or open my eyes. Nowadays is not very apparent. Yes, you can see shadowy forms at this stage.
Well, ok. I understand. It's not that I mean to put emphasis on the dreams per say, its that I wish to unravel this fear thats in me, which becomes most apparent in the lucid state, or OOB. I wish to progress. It does make sense to take them at "face value" or to just accept it, as most of the unraveling that i have done has been done almost subconsciously and then realized, rather than thought on and concluded, if that makes sense. But I do understand that i do not need to unravel them, and that they just are.
-
If you want to understand the dreams, by all means. There are no hard and fast rules. I am just telling you my perceptions of most things. If dissecting the dreams makes you understand, all the better. This attitude of mine was in me when I was young when I realized that things that I cannot investigate or find a solution, I let it go. All things will come to fruition/results eventually.
-
I'm curious, are your experiences with OOBE's as convoluted as mine? As if one was to say ripped from a reality of reality, or a dream within a dream of a dream? For me attempting to unravel them it is quite the task, just curious if there is an acclimation to this that makes them more discernable? Or does one relinquish a previous "reality" so that it is no longer a part of the equation?
For me lifetimes, dreams and OOBEs are all just dreams within dreams, within dreams.
I would like to note also that I put alot of emphasis on a "pearl" of golden light, Ive even called it a spaceship in the past lol. However, It may be that I am no longer "looking" for this, so I no longer see this? It seems that the visual field itself, in a deep meditation, has become more vivid, and no longer contains the golden hued shapes, but rather forms.
Seeing a "pearl" of golden light, or blue light, during meditation, is common for those who meditate deeply. Here is a thread on this forum that discusses this experience, and it has links to a few essays that I wrote on this subject, [urlhttp://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,566.0.html]Kasina Object Meditation[/url].
-
I found myself spending a great deal of time listening and watching videos on OOBE's the last couple of days. I feel like it's really helped me in relinquishing some of the fears I held with them. Although, the person explaining them avoided most of the negative, or rather dismissed it as rare occurrence. I came to accept that his experience, that has been the majority good and pleasant, is just as much real and valid to him as the negative and opposite is to me. Never the less, I feel like it's helped me out a great deal.
I do question though, if the OOBE itself is the "whole package"? Or even if it is to be regarded in any particular way. I know that I have read somewhere that the cultivation of the 4 lower jhanas is the path to liberation. I just think seeking an OOBE simply to have an OOBE, or cultivating it, or desiring it, to be a major detriment. I think at this point I will be more ok with them when they happen, but I don't wish to seek them out. On that note, lately I do not wish to seek anything. It becomes worry-some at times to think of existence. Even with all of the fantastical stories I read about, or watch videos on; I don't want them. I find it more troublesome to read and read and read in search of what it is that I do "want", and I cannot find it. I guess I just do my best to present in the moment, ever searching for what it is I seek, just maybe it'll make itself known someday.
-
Yes, I find the suttas are quite clear that the 4 jhanas are the path to liberation; and we are confirmed in that premise by the fact that those who find the OOBE, and/or direct their effort toward them do not seem to be free of obsessive and compulsive behavior, such as addictions. So, I agree there is not much point in putting a lot of emphasis in cultivating them; however, it has been my experience, and my case histories support this conclusion, that those who learn to meditate to the depth of the 4 jhanas tend to spontaneously develop the OOBE; and since we had recent discussion on remote viewing, then remote viewing (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,1095.msg7426.html#msg7426) is also developed spontaneously for those who learn to meditate deeply.
-
Yes, I find the suttas are quite clear that the 4 jhanas are the path to liberation; and we are confirmed in that premise by the fact that those who find the OOBE, and/or direct their effort toward them do not seem to be free of obsessive and compulsive behavior, such as addictions. So, I agree there is not much point in putting a lot of emphasis in cultivating them; however, it has been my experience, and my case histories support this conclusion, that those who learn to meditate to the depth of the 4 jhanas tend to spontaneously develop the OOBE; and since we had recent discussion on remote viewing, then remote viewing (http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,1095.msg7426.html#msg7426) is also develop spontaneously for those who learn to meditate deeply.
So the OOBE is "ok", and remote viewing is "ok"? They will happen, and the fact that they do, is "ok"?
Devaputra Mara-The mara of seeking pleasure
Klesha Mara-The mara of using emotions for escape
Yama Mara-The mara of the fear of death
I've put a great deal of effort into changing or directing my own perspective. I've come across these terms, and since they are of Buddhist concept, I've been trying to use them in organizing my thoughts towards their correspondence. Rather than my previous method of identifying negative (becoming aware, naming, and letting it fall) I've started trying to visualize them as a manifest demon. In my mind, I feel that allowing this visualization will bring them to light, and may even possibly skew my subconscious mind, or spirit into creating a clear threshold in which to observe them. I hate to think of the subconscious mind as not of that of my own, or to empower the mind of the body. But, I know in doing so that my dreams and perception of the OOBE could lead to direct conflict with these manifest demons of fears. and desires. It's all I could come up with in creating this threshold. Its exhausting. It almost seems easier to stumble upon them. If there was a way that I could eliminate all of this damned "training". I wish I were a child, unburdened by society and their damned maddening thoughts that lead them blindly to NOTHING! And yet, the mind of the child is the closest thing I could compare to what I need to do. Or do I? Direction has become utterly unclear lately...I only know that I wish to break these fucking chains that bind me.
-
So the OOBE is "ok", and remote viewing is "ok"? They will happen, and the fact that they do, is "ok"?
Yes, in my experience they are simply some of the superior fruit of attainment for those who learn to meditate deeply.
Devaputra Mara-The mara of seeking pleasure
Klesha Mara-The mara of using emotions for escape
Yama Mara-The mara of the fear of death
I've put a great deal of effort into changing or directing my own perspective. I've come across these terms, and since they are of Buddhist concept, I've been trying to use them in organizing my thoughts towards their correspondence. Rather than my previous method of identifying negative (becoming aware, naming, and letting it fall) I've started trying to visualize them as a manifest demon. In my mind, I feel that allowing this visualization will bring them to light, and may even possibly skew my subconscious mind, or spirit into creating a clear threshold in which to observe them. I hate to think of the subconscious mind as not of that of my own, or to empower the mind of the body. But, I know in doing so that my dreams and perception of the OOBE could lead to direct conflict with these manifest demons of fears. and desires. It's all I could come up with in creating this threshold. Its exhausting. It almost seems easier to stumble upon them. If there was a way that I could eliminate all of this damned "training". I wish I were a child, unburdened by society and their damned maddening thoughts that lead them blindly to NOTHING! And yet, the mind of the child is the closest thing I could compare to what I need to do. Or do I? Direction has become utterly unclear lately...I only know that I wish to break these fucking chains that bind me.
Breaking the "chains" of social programming is part of the liberation experience. We get there by following the whole of the Noble Eight-fold Path, which includes cultivating the 8 stages of depth in meditation (samadhi). So, keep moving forward. You are doing fine.
-
I began to remove the visual layer of this reality and the golden hue of the divine comes into view. The shapes dance and form a circle, and it fleets away inviting. A darkness comes and with it a new reality must be pierced. The golden shapes return, obscured by the darkness. It becomes harder to be at peace, more surrender is required. I dance with this darkness in victory and defeat. I become intent to show this darkness the light. No longer shall it see the golden, but the white. I dance with this darkness in victory and defeat. The darkness has now become two. Feelings of joy arise, as now there are two that might accompany to this place of brilliance. The white breaks through, ever dancing upon the darkest darkness. It does not like this place of white, but there it shall return upon our next meeting. Another darkness comes, but piercing through becomes easier, there is a more brilliant light in the distance. But the world has called, and I must return. Until next time darkness, I will no longer accept being your prisoner, if attached you must be, then the light we will see together.
-
Good metaphor, Cal. The images are basically shadows upon the light. So, if the mystic just attends to the light, and ignores the shadows, then there will be no distractions, and no demons.
-
My visual field is primarily dark, with some light. Like the sun bursting through a dark cloud. Once I've absorbed though, large and small "sprites" can dance over the view screen, then it is primarily light. I've noticed two different types of meditation. When i meditate during the day, its as a grey visual field, and light can burst through dance around, make shapes, but eventually forms a kasina and takes off. After this, the backdrop gets dark and I must find the light again, this goes further and further. But at night, it is primarily the sprites, and I have very seldom seen the kasina. However, the pull on my spirit seems more intense. Like the separation of body and spirit starts to happen almost immediately. It's such a weird feeling lol. Last night I lie in meditation for hours. I kept popping out of the body, sitting up, looking around, and then going back in. Theres like this hum that happens, I see it in the visual field when I am separating. I can't even really explain it haha. I did notice though, that due to my own lack of diligence, that when it came to stop my breath, my stinking ears would twitch and i could freak out. The times that I did pop out for a second were the times that i lost consciousness and just woke up, already out. I've just been absolutely ecstatic the last 2 days. Those fuckers have no hold on me, but theyre still there. Maybe I'll throw them around a bit, see if they'll leave me alone lol. Theres this one, hes like a minotaur. That fucker is especially mean lol. Im gonna give him a big hug, then maybe body slam him lol.
-
Some time ago I realized that pushing something away was the same as clutching at it. Now, I just sit in meditation with a still mind. When I close my eyes I see light, as if it were day time.
-
Some time ago I realized that pushing something away was the same as clutching at it. Now, I just sit in meditation with a still mind. When I close my eyes I see light, as if it were day time.
In the moment that I wrote that I was recalling all the nasty things that I had experienced. I agree with you here, and I do view the same way. Any kind of action becomes an interaction. Thank you for your guidance here, it is very helpful.
It makes me think of all of the benefits a GWV retreat center could bring. That a shared, collective space for us here could completely change everything.
Im thinking of a most recent post from you, that the immaterial domains can be experienced as a collective delusion. The dream space is that of the dreamers, and they make it. It makes sense to me, albeit confusing to be encountered. However, the importance of proper guidance becomes much more clear. Otherwise, I know personally, I would be caught in the web of dreams, believing them to be something entirely different.
I also think to things shared from both Bodhimind and Jhanon, that group meditations propel the entire group. A space in which we could be "collective" to me is of immeasurable value. I imagine a place that could be forever unknown to us, without this collective guidance. That we might discern things together, is paramount.
-
...It makes me think of all of the benefits a GWV retreat center could bring. That a shared, collective space for us here could completely change everything.
Im thinking of a most recent post from you, that the immaterial domains can be experienced as a collective delusion. The dream space is that of the dreamers, and they make it. It makes sense to me, albeit confusing to be encountered. However, the importance of proper guidance becomes much more clear. Otherwise, I know personally, I would be caught in the web of dreams, believing them to be something entirely different.
I also think to things shared from both Bodhimind and Jhanon, that group meditations propel the entire group. A space in which we could be "collective" to me is of immeasurable value. I imagine a place that could be forever unknown to us, without this collective guidance. That we might discern things together, is paramount.
Yes, so true, so true.
-
I'm thinking back to the few times I have been lucid before leaving the body. This one image keeps coming to mind. It was a picture of my mother, my sister and I. It caught fire in the left upper-most corner burning away the face of my mother and sister, but my own face remained. Many times I have thought on this, but never have I put any emphasis on it; I only knew it happened immediately before leaving the body. Now I am left with a "feeling" that it may have been symbolic, perhaps even guidance.
Too often do I find myself questioning why I continually submit to this bombardment from them (my family). It is no longer my mother or sister that I am concerned with, as they are very distant, my mother deceased even, but rather my wife and daughter. I despise that I think this way, and that feels un-natural. I make attempts to remind myself that a house-holder might find freedom, that even the worst off attachments are possible to navigate. I love my daughter so much, she is not a burden in anyway, yet she is a child of the world; her mother sees to this. I do not think that I can help them, and that was always a reason for staying. Maybe i just don't want to be alone.
I went for meditation this afternoon without any idea as to why I was feeling frustration, only that it was there. I sat in meditation for almost 2 and a half hours. Within probably 5 minutes into the sit I was already in the 4th Jhana viewing golden shapes disappearing behind a blue-fire back drop. I must have stayed right there for a long time before falling asleep to be woken up what seemed like only a few minutes later by my daughter. I looked at teh clock and it had been 2 and a half hours.
Now as I sat there collecting myself with abnormally loud ringing in my ears, my vision vibrating as if being shook by an earthquake, body lit up as if it was on fire, saturated in bliss; this bombardment of images came flooding into my mind. They came so fast and so many, it was like a VHS playback x 100. I have no idea what all of them were, and the above is the feeling I was left with.
Oddly, I am calmer, but this body feels as though it could cry.
-
I'm thinking back to the few times I have been lucid before leaving the body. This one image keeps coming to mind. It was a picture of my mother, my sister and I. It caught fire in the left upper-most corner burning away the face of my mother and sister, but my own face remained. Many times I have thought on this, but never have I put any emphasis on it; I only knew it happened immediately before leaving the body. Now I am left with a "feeling" that it may have been symbolic, perhaps even guidance.
This sounds symbolic of burning away your attachments to you family of origin, who are often the source of a great deal of pain.
Too often do I find myself questioning why I continually submit to this bombardment from them (my family). It is no longer my mother or sister that I am concerned with, as they are very distant, my mother deceased even, but rather my wife and daughter. I despise that I think this way, and that feels un-natural. I make attempts to remind myself that a house-holder might find freedom, that even the worst off attachments are possible to navigate. I love my daughter so much, she is not a burden in anyway, yet she is a child of the world; her mother sees to this. I do not think that I can help them, and that was always a reason for staying. Maybe i just don't want to be alone.
I have noticed that men often marry someone who resembles their mother, and women often marry someone who resembles their father.
I went for meditation this afternoon without any idea as to why I was feeling frustration, only that it was there. I sat in meditation for almost 2 and a half hours. Within probably 5 minutes into the sit I was already in the 4th Jhana viewing golden shapes disappearing behind a blue-fire back drop. I must have stayed right there for a long time before falling asleep to be woken up what seemed like only a few minutes later by my daughter. I looked at teh clock and it had been 2 and a half hours.
This is truly an example of 4th jhana attainment.
Now as I sat there collecting myself with abnormally loud ringing in my ears, my vision vibrating as if being shook by an earthquake, body lit up as if it was on fire, saturated in bliss; this bombardment of images came flooding into my mind. They came so fast and so many, it was like a VHS playback x 100. I have no idea what all of them were, and the above is the feeling I was left with.
Oddly, I am calmer, but this body feels as though it could cry.
Recollection of attachments, often precedes letting them go.
-
I've begun to think of my dreams as actually visiting another in their dreams. I do not feel that I produce them on my own, as I've started to remember more of them, all of them have had foreign feelings to them. I've noticed that only a small part of them being something that I can relate to or something that resonates visually within myself. Perhaps I am just not able to view these deep rooted feelings everyday. If this were the case, my premise would be invalid.
I had an interesting epiphany moment sometime between the 2 dreams, or 2 visits that I can recall from last night. It seems as though something spoke to me. It told me that because I feel special due to the charisms, that ego still exists within me. While it is a little uncomfortable to view, it is true.
I recall back to family encounters over the years. While in a group, it always seemed that elder family members had their favorites, that there was inequality. Coming from a large, close living extended family (aunts, cousins, grandparents), there was alot of us. A lot of boys even, which tended to lead to altercation more often than not haha. A lot of this altercation stemmed from favoritism in the adults for some of us kids. One of my dreams last night was with an older favorite. In recollection, how everything played out, is precisely how he thinks. I recall embracing him and telling him that I loved him. After this the entire setting seemed to calm, which makes me happy. But, back to the point. Somewhere along these lines I developed a need for competition, a need for recognition. So when something told me that I felt special, or that i was unique in some way, due to the charisms, I could not deny it.
I find it interesting how this specifically has lead me. I've tended to be a know it all, and at times rampage my way into things that I probably shouldnt have. I admit, these things have been fueled by this. I feel as though I've danced around the edges of this for quite some time, but actually hearing it really gives me a clearer view of it, and hopefully it may lead to letting it go.
I wrote recently that I have been reaching out to others in more public forums. Too often have I found myself leaping off on something that I may only have a small understanding of. Perhaps some of this is also fueled by a trust in my inner guide, however, it can be reckless. These items have tended to need no explanation, as what most have been centered around, are not what should be focused on. Perhaps it is also due in part to this community of contemplatives, here at the GWV. That I have grown accustomed to speaking with those of experience, and not that of regurgitated dogma.
In these other forums, one will post something that can literally dance around the edges of a religious experience. My impulsiveness has lead me to tell them what that is, explain it, describe it, and tell them how to experience it again, however this specificity is not the way things are done here, and I understand why. Now I dont write any of this as a result of something negative coming from these events, it has been quite the opposite. I write it because I realize that while I may be able to discern something, it does not qualify me to teach it. I don't have the proper understanding of systematically reaching a goal, only a simplified shortcut to a direct experience. Perhaps this is something I might find assistance in changing here. Until then, I think I will spend less time on these other forums, and more time studying the model of the Buddha.
-
I've begun to think of my dreams as actually visiting another in their dreams. I do not feel that I produce them on my own, as I've started to remember more of them, all of them have had foreign feelings to them. I've noticed that only a small part of them being something that I can relate to or something that resonates visually within myself. Perhaps I am just not able to view these deep rooted feelings everyday. If this were the case, my premise would be invalid.
I found when I sleep with someone that we have shared dreams. Perhaps this is true for you?
In these other forums, one will post something that can literally dance around the edges of a religious experience. My impulsiveness has lead me to tell them what that is, explain it, describe it, and tell them how to experience it again, however this specificity is not the way things are done here, and I understand why. Now I dont write any of this as a result of something negative coming from these events, it has been quite the opposite. I write it because I realize that while I may be able to discern something, it does not qualify me to teach it. I don't have the proper understanding of systematically reaching a goal, only a simplified shortcut to a direct experience. Perhaps this is something I might find assistance in changing here. Until then, I think I will spend less time on these other forums, and more time studying the model of the Buddha.
Well, there is definitely a need to avoid gossip and chatiness. On the other hand I see no problem with any of the members of this forum sharing their understanding of religious experience on other forums.
-
I've begun to think of my dreams as actually visiting another in their dreams. I do not feel that I produce them on my own, as I've started to remember more of them, all of them have had foreign feelings to them. I've noticed that only a small part of them being something that I can relate to or something that resonates visually within myself. Perhaps I am just not able to view these deep rooted feelings everyday. If this were the case, my premise would be invalid.
I found when I sleep with someone that we have shared dreams. Perhaps this is true for you?
Well, this is true, yes. However, I tend to avoid this like the venerable plague. It happens though. The problem I've found with being "in-tune" with her is it becomes overwhelming pretty quickly. Shes very emotional and rather controlling. So after sharing a dream with her I tend to be anxious and have a hard time maintaining a quiet mind. This is also after sex. I tend to support her emotionally when she needs it, otherwise I keep my distance...physically and spiritually.
She'll have nightmares now and again, I'm there for her then. The world weighs heavily on her and she needs refuge, I'm there for her then. I can't help but be there when shes genuinely distraught.
In these other forums, one will post something that can literally dance around the edges of a religious experience. My impulsiveness has lead me to tell them what that is, explain it, describe it, and tell them how to experience it again, however this specificity is not the way things are done here, and I understand why. Now I dont write any of this as a result of something negative coming from these events, it has been quite the opposite. I write it because I realize that while I may be able to discern something, it does not qualify me to teach it. I don't have the proper understanding of systematically reaching a goal, only a simplified shortcut to a direct experience. Perhaps this is something I might find assistance in changing here. Until then, I think I will spend less time on these other forums, and more time studying the model of the Buddha.
Well, there is definitely a need to avoid gossip and chatiness. On the other hand I see no problem with any of the members of this forum sharing their understanding of religious experience on other forums.
I need to take some time studying. I would hope eventually to put together a local meditation group, following the GWV model. The problem I find myself running into is without a genuine question in front of me, I do not know where to start. I think taking a step back and listening for a time might help with this.
-
I need to take some time studying. I would hope eventually to put together a local meditation group, following the GWV model. The problem I find myself running into is without a genuine question in front of me, I do not know where to start. I think taking a step back and listening for a time might help with this.
I don't have a problem with anyone on this forum starting a meditation group under the auspices of the GWV. It can be as easy as just starting a sitting group, and offering questions and answers. And, it does not need to be as complicated as having to come up with a pithy lecture every week.
-
I began to remove the visual layer of this reality and the golden hue of the divine comes into view. The shapes dance and form a circle, and it fleets away inviting. A darkness comes and with it a new reality must be pierced. The golden shapes return, obscured by the darkness. It becomes harder to be at peace, more surrender is required. I dance with this darkness in victory and defeat. I become intent to show this darkness the light. No longer shall it see the golden, but the white. I dance with this darkness in victory and defeat. The darkness has now become two. Feelings of joy arise, as now there are two that might accompany to this place of brilliance. The white breaks through, ever dancing upon the darkest darkness. It does not like this place of white, but there it shall return upon our next meeting. Another darkness comes, but piercing through becomes easier, there is a more brilliant light in the distance. But the world has called, and I must return. Until next time darkness, I will no longer accept being your prisoner, if attached you must be, then the light we will see together.
This was an experience, much like many others, where through visual and proximal feeling, I have become immersed in an environment during deep meditation. As far as the above, I had directed awareness first into the Kasina, where I was then removed from what I stepped into, and "taken" to the place of fuckface assbags, and then, by what seems to have been by acceptance, but non-relation to them, I was able to move onward to another, less familiar place. This has become a common theme in deep meditation, although I tend to just drift with them, so I may spend time near someone here or elsewhere.
A few nights ago I had another experience like this in where, as I focused awareness into my visual, something like a dark tunnel opened up, and behind it were the stars in pristine clarity. I have seen this place one other time to my recollection, however, intuitively, it seems more familiar than I think it is. This place seemed like an endless space, and as I ventured in, it felt as though I could expand into it, and admittedly, that was a pretty scary feeling. Preceding this was a familiar feeling of rushing through the tunnel of the OOBE, however I did not leave the body, as I normally do not. Instead I sat with awareness present in this place with both mind and awareness, aware; and here-in lies a problem.
This particular meditation did produce something new; an expansive view of a beautiful, inviting, cool in feeling light blue encompassing visual view, that was accompanied with very fast, smooth motion. The coolness had a likeness of a magical feeling raindrop gently hitting my face. Yet I was moving much faster than I ever had before. I experienced this after an almost week long, sit after sit agony in the form of bad pressures and vertigo in the head. After the experience there was an odd break where I felt no charisms at all; holy crap that was weird. But I continued the sit regardless and the black tunnel showed up sometime after. I was left with a feeling as though this was a test, not the break, but the pressures and pain, and this light blue space was the reward. Often I have felt tested.
Recently I have spent time reading the writings of St. John of the cross, Journeys Out of the Body, as well as some other oddities; and I've got to say i am kicking myself for not reading them previous. Too often, I suppose, I tended to lean on assumption. This particular assumption is that i will find out in time. So I sat time and again, alot of time in agony through some very real and and immersive meditations. In these writing I have found many descriptions to experiences that were real to me, although some of them we "foggy" in my minds eye; something that is also described a lot by Robert Monroe. It makes sense, the way he seen things, how they were blurred; I've been there. This is not the way things are anymore, and have not been for awhile, clarity is in abundance at least at the visual level. Yet I feel as though I do not experience the entirety of these event; as while I have been there in awareness, it has been in "joint venture" with this stupid meat husk.
I suppose I has questions as to why this is the case; and I have searched inward for the answer and have received nothing, or that I cannot discern it. Its like there is a broken "information" pipe in my head that is flooding. Also, through these readings I have not found description of these things outside of OOBE, yet they still resonate with experiences I have had in viewing; why is this that I can see them, but not as others have/do, in the OOBE?
Sexual desire may have a play in this. But I just dont fully understand. It's as though I am constantly bombarded with influence, many influence, and to decipher them it takes an exhausting amount of insightfullness. There are times, for reasons beyond me, that I am able to hone in precisely to them, but its not sustainable. I'm more likely to go mad than to attempt this often, as I cannot fully dis-connect; so lately, I have just ignored them. I know this another problem. I just don't know anymore.
-
This was an experience, much like many others, where through visual and proximal feeling, I have become immersed in an environment during deep meditation. As far as the above, I had directed awareness first into the Kasina, where I was then removed from what I stepped into, and "taken" to the place of fuckface assbags, and then, by what seems to have been by acceptance, but non-relation to them, I was able to move onward to another, less familiar place. This has become a common theme in deep meditation, although I tend to just drift with them, so I may spend time near someone here or elsewhere.
The " fuckface assbags," that you have been speaking of are demons. Everyone has to traverse the domain of demons. Just keep meditating deeply, and developing equanimity, so that you can get through the domain of demons with little trauma.
A few nights ago I had another experience like this in where, as I focused awareness into my visual, something like a dark tunnel opened up, and behind it were the stars in pristine clarity. I have seen this place one other time to my recollection, however, intuitively, it seems more familiar than I think it is. This place seemed like an endless space, and as I ventured in, it felt as though I could expand into it, and admittedly, that was a pretty scary feeling. Preceding this was a familiar feeling of rushing through the tunnel of the OOBE, however I did not leave the body, as I normally do not. Instead I sat with awareness present in this place with both mind and awareness, aware; and here-in lies a problem.
This is an intermediate stage where one can observe immaterial phenomena, or material phenomena at great remote distances. This is called “remote viewing.” It is the stage just prior to the OOBE. But, you are very advanced nonetheless, because you are getting to this level. Most people who meditate do not get as far as you have. So, you are close, and all you have to do is keep practicing deep meditation.
This particular meditation did produce something new; an expansive view of a beautiful, inviting, cool in feeling light blue encompassing visual view, that was accompanied with very fast, smooth motion. The coolness had a likeness of a magical feeling raindrop gently hitting my face. Yet I was moving much faster than I ever had before. I experienced this after an almost week long, sit after sit agony in the form of bad pressures and vertigo in the head. After the experience there was an odd break where I felt no charisms at all; holy crap that was weird. But I continued the sit regardless and the black tunnel showed up sometime after. I was left with a feeling as though this was a test, not the break, but the pressures and pain, and this light blue space was the reward. Often I have felt tested.
At the lower levels of the OOBE there is still a since of body, which one uses as a vehicle for flying, so this might have been an OOBE. How we know whether we are in an OOBE or not is whether we have any sense of the surroundings of the body, and/or the body at its material location.
Recently I have spent time reading the writings of St. John of the cross, Journeys Out of the Body, as well as some other oddities; and I've got to say i am kicking myself for not reading them previous. Too often, I suppose, I tended to lean on assumption. This particular assumption is that i will find out in time. So I sat time and again, alot of time in agony through some very real and and immersive meditations. In these writing I have found many descriptions to experiences that were real to me, although some of them we "foggy" in my minds eye; something that is also described a lot by Robert Monroe. It makes sense, the way he seen things, how they were blurred; I've been there. This is not the way things are anymore, and have not been for awhile, clarity is in abundance at least at the visual level. Yet I feel as though I do not experience the entirety of these event; as while I have been there in awareness, it has been in "joint venture" with this stupid meat husk.
I suppose I has questions as to why this is the case; and I have searched inward for the answer and have received nothing, or that I cannot discern it. Its like there is a broken "information" pipe in my head that is flooding. Also, through these readings I have not found description of these things outside of OOBE, yet they still resonate with experiences I have had in viewing; why is this that I can see them, but not as others have/do, in the OOBE?
Sexual desire may have a play in this. But I just dont fully understand. It's as though I am constantly bombarded with influence, many influence, and to decipher them it takes an exhausting amount of insightfullness. There are times, for reasons beyond me, that I am able to hone in precisely to them, but its not sustainable. I'm more likely to go mad than to attempt this often, as I cannot fully dis-connect; so lately, I have just ignored them. I know this another problem. I just don't know anymore.
You are definitely in the stage of Alice in Wonderland falling through the rabbit hole, or through the looking glass. This stage is nothing like most well respected contemplative writers have ever written about, other than the true mystics, so it is good that you are now reading John of the Cross. Keep reading the mystics, and keep meditating deeply. You are doing well, but keep in mind it just gets more weird the deeper you go.
-
This was an experience, much like many others, where through visual and proximal feeling, I have become immersed in an environment during deep meditation. As far as the above, I had directed awareness first into the Kasina, where I was then removed from what I stepped into, and "taken" to the place of fuckface assbags, and then, by what seems to have been by acceptance, but non-relation to them, I was able to move onward to another, less familiar place. This has become a common theme in deep meditation, although I tend to just drift with them, so I may spend time near someone here or elsewhere.
The " fuckface assbags," that you have been speaking of are demons. Everyone has to traverse the domain of demons. Just keep meditating deeply, and developing equanimity, so that you can get through the domain of demons with little trauma.
I really should stop referring to them as if I am afraid of them. I've had way too many encounters with them to be afraid of them. It's more like I hate them, and when I see them I taunt them. When they are messing with me, I mess with them back. This gets even worse when I see qualities in them within myself. Ya know, Robert Monroe talked like they are all human; I dont know where the hell he has been, cause these things arent human. And if they are, then I'm not human.
There are times that I have been completely impartial to them, and those have been the best times. But this usually only comes when I have just given up for a time of battling with myself and them.
A few nights ago I had another experience like this in where, as I focused awareness into my visual, something like a dark tunnel opened up, and behind it were the stars in pristine clarity. I have seen this place one other time to my recollection, however, intuitively, it seems more familiar than I think it is. This place seemed like an endless space, and as I ventured in, it felt as though I could expand into it, and admittedly, that was a pretty scary feeling. Preceding this was a familiar feeling of rushing through the tunnel of the OOBE, however I did not leave the body, as I normally do not. Instead I sat with awareness present in this place with both mind and awareness, aware; and here-in lies a problem.
This is an intermediate stage where one can observe immaterial phenomena, or material phenomena at great remote distances. This is called “remote viewing.” It is the stage just prior to the OOBE. But, you are very advanced nonetheless, because you are getting to this level. Most people who meditate do not get as far as you have. So, you are close, and all you have to do is keep practicing deep meditation.
What I am trying hard to understand right now is how I have developed this through much strife and patience, yet in reading Robert Monroe, it seems like he bypassed this. How does he go from opening a single chakra in the solar plexus, (and man he must be a wuss the way he described it made me chuckle) to a week or two later casually rolling out of the body. I do not understand this. There have been many things in his book thus far that have left me feeling like he is self-promoting. I also seen the same things with that other man who does the OOBE videos, the one Alexander linked a few months back. The only way I can explain this is through ignorance. That they are lucid in the sleep states, cause I have yet to see either actually describe the transitions between stages or the intensity of the separation that I have known myself. I do not see that acute awareness in them...its mind boggling to me, because they are describing very real things in the OOBE.
This particular meditation did produce something new; an expansive view of a beautiful, inviting, cool in feeling light blue encompassing visual view, that was accompanied with very fast, smooth motion. The coolness had a likeness of a magical feeling raindrop gently hitting my face. Yet I was moving much faster than I ever had before. I experienced this after an almost week long, sit after sit agony in the form of bad pressures and vertigo in the head. After the experience there was an odd break where I felt no charisms at all; holy crap that was weird. But I continued the sit regardless and the black tunnel showed up sometime after. I was left with a feeling as though this was a test, not the break, but the pressures and pain, and this light blue space was the reward. Often I have felt tested.
At the lower levels of the OOBE there is still a since of body, which one uses as a vehicle for flying, so this might have been an OOBE. How we know whether we are in an OOBE or not is whether we have any sense of the surroundings of the body, and/or the body at its material location.
This is what confounds me, as when I am viewing anything, I have zero sense of the body. It is not until I become aware of the body that the experience can slow, and then stop. I experienced this I believe five times last night, where it was the same in feeling, although less intense than the above, and there was no light blue. Things just start rushing, and I lose sense of the body wholly, until I have sense of the body, and it stops, or I try to move out of the body. For some reason I am unable to disconnect at this point. My thoughts do not become alarmed, but my body does, or something does. I swear there is a fucker sitting on my back, or hiding from me, and when I find it, hes not gonna like me so much. There are times that I feel it, yet never long enough to bring awareness to it, or in a way that I know to bring awareness to it. It's pissing me off. Last night it felt as though, as this was occurring, there was a hand pushed into my mouth and then expanded, and then pressed firmly as if to push through me. During another bout with the same, it was if something grabbed my eye socket a very "unkindly" attempted to remove it from my head. It attempted to remove my teeth at one point even. I'm gonna get this thing thats doing this, when he stops being a fucking coward!
Recently I have spent time reading the writings of St. John of the cross, Journeys Out of the Body, as well as some other oddities; and I've got to say i am kicking myself for not reading them previous. Too often, I suppose, I tended to lean on assumption. This particular assumption is that i will find out in time. So I sat time and again, alot of time in agony through some very real and and immersive meditations. In these writing I have found many descriptions to experiences that were real to me, although some of them we "foggy" in my minds eye; something that is also described a lot by Robert Monroe. It makes sense, the way he seen things, how they were blurred; I've been there. This is not the way things are anymore, and have not been for awhile, clarity is in abundance at least at the visual level. Yet I feel as though I do not experience the entirety of these event; as while I have been there in awareness, it has been in "joint venture" with this stupid meat husk.
I suppose I has questions as to why this is the case; and I have searched inward for the answer and have received nothing, or that I cannot discern it. Its like there is a broken "information" pipe in my head that is flooding. Also, through these readings I have not found description of these things outside of OOBE, yet they still resonate with experiences I have had in viewing; why is this that I can see them, but not as others have/do, in the OOBE?
Sexual desire may have a play in this. But I just dont fully understand. It's as though I am constantly bombarded with influence, many influence, and to decipher them it takes an exhausting amount of insightfullness. There are times, for reasons beyond me, that I am able to hone in precisely to them, but its not sustainable. I'm more likely to go mad than to attempt this often, as I cannot fully dis-connect; so lately, I have just ignored them. I know this another problem. I just don't know anymore.
You are definitely in the stage of Alice in Wonderland falling through the rabbit hole, or through the looking glass. This stage is nothing like most well respected contemplative writers have ever written about, other than the true mystics, so it is good that you are now reading John of the Cross. Keep reading the mystics, and keep meditating deeply. You are doing well, but keep in mind it just gets more weird the deeper you go.
Please forgive my anger. Something happened last night that I am unaware of, as I do not recall my dream, but only that I had dreamed something. The feelings surround it are of the dream. So at some point today, I'll return to meditation and be free of this. But first I will attempt to move my awareness into the center of my mind to that place out of reach. When I reach it I will expand it and hopefully know the reason why or what happened to leave me frustrated and angry.
Yes, thank-you. I am not as concerned with it getting weird-er as I am with not having a point of reference, one with a less convoluted perception. I feel as though it would help immensely if I were to able differentiate this massive amount information that has been flooding in, more outside of a physical context. I need, it feels, to be able to draw a line in the sand, expereintially, to this was OOBE so that this information can be stored as such. I cannot live in lala land and expect to function.
-
Oh, there was this very strange image last night. It was a gold, or polished copper/bronze disc with a hole in the center. It was huge, and the feeling that it was covered in Hindu imagery. I seen it clearly until there was this darkness that would erase it, but the darkness wasnt big enough to erase it all at once, So i was able to view it for a long while, just not in its entirety.
The Hindu imagery had a blue dressed woman, i think, in the bottom right corner, yet there was imagery all over the item...Ill look around and see if I can find a picture of it, cause im very interested in knowing what it was.
http://imgur.com/eqgyYsz (http://imgur.com/eqgyYsz) It may be the disc surrounding the meditator.
Alexander, do you know what that is?
-
Tibetan Buddhist images.
https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=tibetan+buddhism+images&espv=2&biw=1536&bih=764&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_ufyqpsbKAhUFcY4KHXdmAZ8QsAQIGQ#imgrc=-XAWxmAucSP_uM%3A
Aura's as depicted in the image
-
Tibetan Buddhist images.
https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=tibetan+buddhism+images&espv=2&biw=1536&bih=764&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_ufyqpsbKAhUFcY4KHXdmAZ8QsAQIGQ#imgrc=-XAWxmAucSP_uM%3A
Aura's as depicted in the image
Thanks Sam. I'm not sure how or why I would see this, but I'm definitely going to give it some thought. Since I've got you here, could you give me any advice on how you navigated this part of the journey? Maybe a different perspective? To me, right now, this is a reallity, and I'm struggling with it. Any help would be appreciated.
-
I can only talk about my experience.
The meaning of meditation is letting go. I have said before that there will be things that will disturb or distract you. Don't let them do that by staying calm. You don't have to hate them. The will veer you off course. The key is equanimity. It is not constructive or conducive to your progress.
At this stage, one might get disorientated. Therefore, the only way is to practice until you get used to it. Don't think there is any shortcut. Sometimes, one can over-intellectualized or perhaps over think. Just observe. I very glad that you have reached this stage because as Jeff said, not many reached this stage and not many can traverse it. Stay on it. Diligence and patience.
-
Thank you Sam, this was very helpful. Both yours and Jeffereys advice and encouragement have been helped me find resolve in the toughest times.
Last night I only went for a short meditation before bed as the pressure in my head was just too much, and I too exhausted to fight with it. I must have had 6 or 7 dreams, all vivid and clearly remembered upon waking. I say 6 or 7 because they blended together, yet highlighted very different aspects. I truly dislike myself. In these dreams it is so clear to me how wrong my thoughts and point of views are in interaction; and its all true, every bit of it. I can whine like a child when I have not gotten my way. Often I have taken a victims mentality on things I have complete control over, yet have leaned away from the truth of this and fall to excuse instead. These are not so bad, and I've gotten much better at identifying them, yet if I am seeing them, they are not completely removed. I am ok with viewing them further; it's been working. Sexual desire seems like an impossibility though...they're so strong and rampant that I have no idea how to even being to reign these in. I can observe them for days and even weeks without acting upon them; but they are ever present. This one I do not understand how to relinquish. It seems as though they can even be present in meditation, at times. I am sure now, that if there was anything that kept me returning here, this was the number 1 factor. This sexual desire is the only thing that does not seem to have only arisen due to conditioning in this life. I feel as though I will see why I feel this way; I suppose I better buckle up.
Thank you again. Sometimes just seeing the words has been enough for me to "reel the line back in".
-
I really should stop referring to them as if I am afraid of them. I've had way too many encounters with them to be afraid of them. It's more like I hate them, and when I see them I taunt them. When they are messing with me, I mess with them back. This gets even worse when I see qualities in them within myself. Ya know, Robert Monroe talked like they are all human; I dont know where the hell he has been, cause these things arent human. And if they are, then I'm not human.
There are times that I have been completely impartial to them, and those have been the best times. But this usually only comes when I have just given up for a time of battling with myself and them.
I find when I encounter demons out of body, then sometimes I help them with some compassion, or if I find they cannot be helped, then I just fly up to a better plain of existence.
What I am trying hard to understand right now is how I have developed this through much strife and patience, yet in reading Robert Monroe, it seems like he bypassed this. How does he go from opening a single chakra in the solar plexus, (and man he must be a wuss the way he described it made me chuckle) to a week or two later casually rolling out of the body. I do not understand this. There have been many things in his book thus far that have left me feeling like he is self-promoting. I also seen the same things with that other man who does the OOBE videos, the one Alexander linked a few months back. The only way I can explain this is through ignorance. That they are lucid in the sleep states, cause I have yet to see either actually describe the transitions between stages or the intensity of the separation that I have known myself. I do not see that acute awareness in them...its mind boggling to me, because they are describing very real things in the OOBE.
One of the realizations that came to me some years ago, was, just because someone can afford to print a lot of books, and thus has lots of followers, does not mean that person has wisdom. Castaneda, Twitchel, and Dan Milman are examples of people who wrote fiction and convinced generations of people that they were wise and accomplished.
This is what confounds me, as when I am viewing anything, I have zero sense of the body. It is not until I become aware of the body that the experience can slow, and then stop. I experienced this I believe five times last night, where it was the same in feeling, although less intense than the above, and there was no light blue. Things just start rushing, and I lose sense of the body wholly, until I have sense of the body, and it stops, or I try to move out of the body. For some reason I am unable to disconnect at this point. My thoughts do not become alarmed, but my body does, or something does. I swear there is a fucker sitting on my back, or hiding from me, and when I find it, hes not gonna like me so much. There are times that I feel it, yet never long enough to bring awareness to it, or in a way that I know to bring awareness to it. It's pissing me off. Last night it felt as though, as this was occurring, there was a hand pushed into my mouth and then expanded, and then pressed firmly as if to push through me. During another bout with the same, it was if something grabbed my eye socket a very "unkindly" attempted to remove it from my head. It attempted to remove my teeth at one point even. I'm gonna get this thing thats doing this, when he stops being a fucking coward!
Well, it does sound like you are indeed going OOBE. So, your next challenge would be to not engage with the demons, but just rise above them, because they cannot follow you to higher realms.
Please forgive my anger. Something happened last night that I am unaware of, as I do not recall my dream, but only that I had dreamed something. The feelings surround it are of the dream. So at some point today, I'll return to meditation and be free of this. But first I will attempt to move my awareness into the center of my mind to that place out of reach. When I reach it I will expand it and hopefully know the reason why or what happened to leave me frustrated and angry.
Yes, thank-you. I am not as concerned with it getting weird-er as I am with not having a point of reference, one with a less convoluted perception. I feel as though it would help immensely if I were to able differentiate this massive amount information that has been flooding in, more outside of a physical context. I need, it feels, to be able to draw a line in the sand, expereintially, to this was OOBE so that this information can be stored as such. I cannot live in lala land and expect to function.
I often experienced whole lifetimes of information flood into me when in an OOBE on the higher plains, and when I returned I did not always have complete command of that information. I just let it all go, and figured I would retain what I needed to.
I can only talk about my experience.
The meaning of meditation is letting go. I have said before that there will be things that will disturb or distract you. Don't let them do that by staying calm. You don't have to hate them. The will veer you off course. The key is equanimity. It is not constructive or conducive to your progress.
At this stage, one might get disorientated. Therefore, the only way is to practice until you get used to it. Don't think there is any shortcut. Sometimes, one can over-intellectualized or perhaps over think. Just observe. I very glad that you have reached this stage because as Jeff said, not many reached this stage and not many can traverse it. Stay on it. Diligence and patience.
So, true. I find the demons are just interested in distracting us. If they cannot do it with violence, then they will do it with sex, or greed, or one of the other 7 deadly sins.
-
Thank you for your response Jeff, it helped immensely, and I am grateful.
The charisms during the day have changed from a tactile tingling, to a constant cool breeze....or a hot one when a shit bag is near me. I used to feel this cool breeze at times in deep meditation, but now I feel it always. Deep meditation has become swift. It no longer takes the larger amount of time to absorb deeply; yet I tend to sit with them longer. Pressure in the head really really sucks. Often I feel sick from it. Sometimes I refuse to sit with them, and ill just roll over and go to sleep. My dream space has become one long continuous event, that drift through changes. I am still working toward more cognition during them.
Thank you to all for the support and encouragement.
-
You are awesome Cal, and a hell of an inspiration. Even if we don't speak, know that I am exploring the fringe with you wholeheartedly. I feel right next to you in the experiences and it is ever enticing to go deeper knowing that somewhere in the world, you are also getting smacked around by new, weird, but somehow incredibly amazing experiences and states that come from deep meditation. Always a good read man, keep it coming :).
Rougeleader
-
Thank you for your response Jeff, it helped immensely, and I am grateful.
The charisms during the day have changed from a tactile tingling, to a constant cool breeze....or a hot one when a shit bag is near me. I used to feel this cool breeze at times in deep meditation, but now I feel it always.
I too have found the charisms are with me 24-7, and I too find the charisms tell me when I am in a place where harm may come my way, so I respond appropriately to go to a safe place, to avoid the harm.
Deep meditation has become swift. It no longer takes the larger amount of time to absorb deeply; yet I tend to sit with them longer.
Yes, I too found the charisms come to me and intensify immediately when I sit to meditate, and I found if I sat with them for long periods, then I found greater depth in meditation.
Pressure in the head really really sucks. Often I feel sick from it. Sometimes I refuse to sit with them, and ill just roll over and go to sleep.
It is up to you to figure out if this pressure in your head when you meditate is a product of the holy spirit opening channels in you, or whether there is some other harm coming your way. However, it sounds like it is the holy spirit opening channels in you. If so, then I would work to let go and allow it to work its way through you, and to take comfort in it.
My dream space has become one long continuous event, that drift through changes. I am still working toward more cognition during them.
Thank you to all for the support and encouragement.
This is a good sign that you are entering the deathless.
You are awesome Cal, and a hell of an inspiration. Even if we don't speak, know that I am exploring the fringe with you wholeheartedly. I feel right next to you in the experiences and it is ever enticing to go deeper knowing that somewhere in the world, you are also getting smacked around by new, weird, but somehow incredibly amazing experiences and states that come from deep meditation. Always a good read man, keep it coming :).
Rougeleader
This is one of the values of developing a peer community of contemplatives who meditate deeply. The clergy of all religions will of course do everything they can to stop such a peer community from developing, because it means loss of income for them.
-
Pressure in the head really really sucks. Often I feel sick from it. Sometimes I refuse to sit with them, and ill just roll over and go to sleep.
Could you describe the head pressure sensations for us, Cal?
-
Pressure in the head really really sucks. Often I feel sick from it. Sometimes I refuse to sit with them, and ill just roll over and go to sleep.
Could you describe the head pressure sensations for us, Cal?
It is as if a gentle wedge is placed between the two halves of my brain and pushed softly into place. The wedge is then replaced by a firm balloon that is expanded to create a space. A taught guitar string is then inserted symmetrically into the center and is plucked occasionally which leaves me feeling nausea. The twinge forces a sort of surrender, as I fall into it. I am top heavy when this occurs, almost floating. The pressure is painful, and not something I really know how to get used to. It seems inconsistent when it will come; some nights it is there, other nights it is not. Sometimes it will be there for 3-4 nights in a row, other times it wont come for a week. This really isnt something new per-say, just that the intensity has increased ten-fold.
These are not asshats. Something I've noticed about these shitstains, is they are not able to penetrate me, or at least have not yet. While they may have their fun on the surface of my body, or place a hand into my mouth, or twist the surface of my arm, or grab hold of a natural crevice on my body; they have not been able to enter me, not like this. It seems as though they are limited to the threshold of the surface; although this one time it did feel as though I had spears run through both of my forearms >.>, and that shit hurt. I think they found it odd that I refused to react to the pain, although I definitely acknowledged it was present.
It seems as though compassion confuses them. Last night there were these 2 little fuckers; one was standing on my left eye, it seems, and the other was trying to do something to my foot, yet he was a turd and ended up doing nothing at all, I just felt that he was there. When I truly felt sorry for them for they way they felt, it seemed as though both of them recoiled for a moment. But they went back to being shitbags shortly after, so I ignored them.
No, the pressure in my head is definitely not of them. I will work on my perspective of the pain and discomfort, because like many things, although it may be concerning in the moment, it does pass.
I also find it comforting to know that we are not alone in this, Rougeleader ;D
-
That's quite the headache, Cal. I wonder if other mystics have experienced something similar?
What do those little demons look like?
-
That's quite the headache, Cal. I wonder if other mystics have experienced something similar?
What do those little demons look like?
I am unsure if other mystics have experienced this, or something similar. But I have seen descriptions of vertigo and euphoria and the like. To be honest, I havent really researched much into it, I just tend to complain about it ;D
Well, Michel, what do these demons look like? The one who was on my face showed himself twice. His prominent features were in his mouth. I recall a painted like face, something you might see on a clown, but it wasnt a clown, but he WAS a clown in that he thought he was funny AND because he was a little shitstain. "Humanoid", yet the skin near his mouth seemed to melt away as it looked to be smiling. Jagged, very long, metalic, knife-like teeth. Both times this one showed itself he attempted to drift into view, and as he came closer, attempted to get a rise out of making me think he could bite me with his dumb face. This was a very mild encounter with them to say the least; and this particular one, a big wuss. He went back to standing on my face when he realized he couldnt scare me. The other one I did not see, I only felt him.
Often they can have a likeness to twisted feline predators. Often they can have a likeness to scaled dragon like things. I have seen so many, and all have been different, its really hard to classify them. Lets just say that they have been so unique that I could not imagine their uniqueness. The only one who was consistent for awhile was the Minotaur. And to put it lightly, he is one mean asshole. Out of all of them, and there have only been a few that were exceptional at what they do, yet in different ways, the minotaur was the only one that "shook" me, or "impacted" me, or "moved" me. I mean quite literally, at least in feeling.
-
The demons will take every method possible to distract the contemplative: from aggressive and violent behavior, to seductive behavior. Their object is simply to distract the contemplative who is actually making progress in deep meditation.
Otherwise the religious phenomena is many and varied, and can be quite uncomfortable when one first encounters it. So, the point of this forum is just to report this wide range of phenomena, so that others can find correlation with what they might be experiencing in their deep meditation state.
-
Well, Michel, what do these demons look like? The one who was on my face showed himself twice. His prominent features were in his mouth. I recall a painted like face, something you might see on a clown, but it wasnt a clown, but he WAS a clown in that he thought he was funny AND because he was a little shitstain. "Humanoid", yet the skin near his mouth seemed to melt away as it looked to be smiling. Jagged, very long, metalic, knife-like teeth. Both times this one showed itself he attempted to drift into view, and as he came closer, attempted to get a rise out of making me think he could bite me with his dumb face. This was a very mild encounter with them to say the least; and this particular one, a big wuss. He went back to standing on my face when he realized he couldnt scare me. The other one I did not see, I only felt him.
Often they can have a likeness to twisted feline predators. Often they can have a likeness to scaled dragon like things. I have seen so many, and all have been different, its really hard to classify them. Lets just say that they have been so unique that I could not imagine their uniqueness. The only one who was consistent for awhile was the Minotaur. And to put it lightly, he is one mean asshole. Out of all of them, and there have only been a few that were exceptional at what they do, yet in different ways, the minotaur was the only one that "shook" me, or "impacted" me, or "moved" me. I mean quite literally, at least in feeling.
You are indeed deep down in the rabbit hole, Cal. I hope to join you one day, and we can ask the mad hatter if he's figured out what the answer is to his riddle, "Why is a raven like a writing desk?" LOL
-
Well, Michel, what do these demons look like? The one who was on my face showed himself twice. His prominent features were in his mouth. I recall a painted like face, something you might see on a clown, but it wasnt a clown, but he WAS a clown in that he thought he was funny AND because he was a little shitstain. "Humanoid", yet the skin near his mouth seemed to melt away as it looked to be smiling. Jagged, very long, metalic, knife-like teeth. Both times this one showed itself he attempted to drift into view, and as he came closer, attempted to get a rise out of making me think he could bite me with his dumb face. This was a very mild encounter with them to say the least; and this particular one, a big wuss. He went back to standing on my face when he realized he couldnt scare me. The other one I did not see, I only felt him.
Often they can have a likeness to twisted feline predators. Often they can have a likeness to scaled dragon like things. I have seen so many, and all have been different, its really hard to classify them. Lets just say that they have been so unique that I could not imagine their uniqueness. The only one who was consistent for awhile was the Minotaur. And to put it lightly, he is one mean asshole. Out of all of them, and there have only been a few that were exceptional at what they do, yet in different ways, the minotaur was the only one that "shook" me, or "impacted" me, or "moved" me. I mean quite literally, at least in feeling.
You are indeed deep down in the rabbit hole, Cal. I hope to join you one day, and we can ask the mad hatter what if he's figured out what the answer is to his riddle, "Why is a raven like a writing desk?" LOL
That is an odd question indeed. If it wasnt for the neutrality meditation has provided, I'd likely be discussing this under different circumstances haha. I know you have spent a great deal of energy combing the Suttas; have you seen any reference to these types of experiences there-in?
Also, I'm more than open to talking with you about your meditations and such. ;D
-
I know you have spent a great deal of energy combing the Suttas; have you seen any reference to these types of experiences there-in?
No, I haven't come across anything in the suttas similar to these types of experiences. It leaves one with many questions.
Also, I'm more than open to talking with you about your meditations and such. ;D
I don't have much to report about my meditations other than I'm experiencing the1st jhana according to some people here. I'm just slogging away trying to figure it all out. I'm working on relaxing, letting go and being content with whatever pleasant or unpleasant feelings arise and pass away without grasping or feeling aversion towards them.
-
I know you have spent a great deal of energy combing the Suttas; have you seen any reference to these types of experiences there-in?
No, I haven't come across anything in the suttas similar to these types of experiences. It leaves one with many questions.
Well, I know my own perception of things has a play in this. It could be that this is the way my mind chooses to view, even if that much is out of my control. I also have many questions in this regard, however, I also understand why something like this would not be described in great detail, as well. I think making a point to express all of these things vividly only serves to create an expectation for another; and lets be honest, who would want to view something like this. It could serve as a detourent as well. I think the same could also be said about the good things one might see.
Also, I'm more than open to talking with you about your meditations and such. ;D
I don't have much to report about my meditations other than I'm experiencing the1st jhana according to some people here. I'm just slogging away trying to figure it all out. I'm working on relaxing, letting go and being content with whatever pleasant or unpleasant feelings arise and pass away without grasping or feeling aversion towards them.
I can understand the aversion, but not the grasping. When you recognize the charisms, you bring full awareness to them and grasp them gently. I recall reading an essay from Jeff about how it can be much like riding a horse in that you, as the rider, must maintain a firm grip, but not a taught grip on the reigns of the horse, otherwise the horse would rather just eat the grass in front of him. He used this analogy in the context of OOBE, yet I believe it applies here as well. The balance of aversion and grasping falls more into the context of your thoughts or unpleasant feelings or the "rogue mind", at least thats what I've found in meditation. When I've relaxed sufficiently to be the "rider", its in the tingling or cool breeze upon the surface of my skin that I grasp; its everything else that I let fall away.
On another note, last nights meditation was the first time ever that I did not feel anything "unpleasant" near me. I had 0 encounters with them and it was one of the most serene meditation experiences I have ever had. I feel like much work was accomplished last night, and I hope this can continue. :)
Funny though, at first there was a bit of anxiety present as I kept expecting something. When nothing negative at all was happening, I REALLY thought something BIG was gonna happen. It took a bit of time to drop this expectation and really just enjoy the experience, and to just remind myself that even if something did happen; so what, its just another stroll in the park.
-
Some time ago I realized that pushing something away was the same as clutching at it. Now, I just sit in meditation with a still mind. When I close my eyes I see light, as if it were day time.
When I see this light, as if it were day time, it feels as though I am separating from my physical body. Like if someone was to take a vacuum nozzle shaped perfectly to my body, place it over me, then turn on the vacuum. There is even a rushing sound and feeling to it, much like the moving of air. Sometimes this can happen several times in a deep meditation. But, so far, there is always an excitement that comes over me and it will just stop.
-
Well, I know my own perception of things has a play in this. It could be that this is the way my mind chooses to view, even if that much is out of my control. I also have many questions in this regard, however, I also understand why something like this would not be described in great detail, as well. I think making a point to express all of these things vividly only serves to create an expectation for another; and lets be honest, who would want to view something like this. It could serve as a detourent as well. I think the same could also be said about the good things one might see.
It would be interesting if others would describe their experiences to see what similarities there are to yours.
Jhananda made reference to the demons use of seduction to distract. I think he implied sexuality, wealth, power, etc. Did you ever come across something like this?
I can understand the aversion, but not the grasping. When you recognize the charisms, you bring full awareness to them and grasp them gently.
I meant grasping or craving for the pleasant sensations in meditation. Wanting anything to occur creates a state of agitation which is detrimental to the meditation.
On another note, last nights meditation was the first time ever that I did not feel anything "unpleasant" near me. I had 0 encounters with them and it was one of the most serene meditation experiences I have ever had. I feel like much work was accomplished last night, and I hope this can continue. :)
Way to go, old chap. I'm very glad to hear this. I hope it continues. I had a break through today as well. I had a couple of head orgasms. I experienced this mild explosive feeling of radiance and expansion in the head when I placed my attention on the pressure sensations in the head. I felt it could go further, but it didn't. It's 1st jhana stuff, I'd say.
Funny though, at first there was a bit of anxiety present as I kept expecting something. When nothing negative at all was happening, I REALLY thought something BIG was gonna happen. It took a bit of time to drop this expectation and really just enjoy the experience, and to just remind myself that even if something did happen; so what, its just another stroll in the park.
I think it's all about being in the now or just experiencing whatever is happening in the present moment without craving for anything and letting whatever is going to happen, happen. Everything arises and passes away. Just watch it and let it go, don't get involved with it. That's what I've learned from meditation so far. I believe meditation teaches you everything.
-
Well, I know my own perception of things has a play in this. It could be that this is the way my mind chooses to view, even if that much is out of my control. I also have many questions in this regard, however, I also understand why something like this would not be described in great detail, as well. I think making a point to express all of these things vividly only serves to create an expectation for another; and lets be honest, who would want to view something like this. It could serve as a detourent as well. I think the same could also be said about the good things one might see.
It would be interesting if others would describe their experiences to see what similarities there are to yours.
Jhananda made reference to the demons use of seduction to distract. I think he implied sexuality, wealth, power, etc. Did you ever come across something like this?
Well, they have, just in different ways. I've noticed in several other members case histories that they have described similar experiences. The only difference would be where some of the finer details may have been omitted. I also understand why they were left out. But in reading them, and walking through the descriptions of them, I see the very same things.
I've always had a visual quality to words and stories. So, reading a book is the same as watching a movie to me. I immerse myself in it and live the experience that they write. In doing so, a sort of empathetic trait is present. There are times that I can feel what they were feeling as they moved through these thoughts, and expressed them. I think this is how I see the similarities.
Yes, I have come across this "seduction", although, seduction isnt something that has ever worked for me. I think the important note in this is that they will use any means possible to distract you. In order for an assbag to seduce someone with something, there must be an underlining desire first. I have never wanted to be a leader, or rich, or powerful, or influential, or a porn star, or anything like that; so they can go fly a kite with all that shit.
It seems as though these particular actions were more visable in the dream space than in meditation. Although, there were a few times that I have seen beautiful women in meditation, mostly in the third jhana when a very pleasurable sensation is present. I took these kinds of images and feelings to be an attempt at seduction, from them. However, the pleasurable sensation in the third jhana, or intense vibration, is not the work of a demon. It's hard to put the differences into words, but when you experience it, one knows the difference.
This type of influence isnt limited to only seduction though. There are many different ways they might go about their shenanigans.
I can understand the aversion, but not the grasping. When you recognize the charisms, you bring full awareness to them and grasp them gently.
I meant grasping or craving for the pleasant sensations in meditation. Wanting anything to occur creates a state of agitation which is detrimental to the meditation.
Very true. I suppose supporting the word grasping was a poor choice on my part, as its not exactly what I meant.
On another note, last nights meditation was the first time ever that I did not feel anything "unpleasant" near me. I had 0 encounters with them and it was one of the most serene meditation experiences I have ever had. I feel like much work was accomplished last night, and I hope this can continue. :)
Way to go, old chap. I'm very glad to hear this. I hope it continues. I had a break through today as well. I had a couple of head orgasms. I experienced this mild explosive feeling of radiance and expansion in the head when I placed my attention on the pressure sensations in the head. I felt it could go further, but it didn't. It's 1st jhana stuff, I'd say.
It sounds like you opened your crown chakra. That radiance Michel, look for it elsewhere. You might feel that same radiant feeling on the tips of your fingers or the bottoms of your feet. You could even feel it now. Close your eyes. Take a deep, relaxing breath. As you exhale, place your awareness onto your hands. Hold off on the inhale for a moment, and search in awareness for what may or may not be there. It may take a couple of inhale/exhales to relax.
It would likely be second jhana if youre feeling that haha. Good work! Remember, the first jhana is nothing more than a pleasant abiding in your religious activity. Youre not likely to have the awareness of a radiant feeling until youve found some measure of tranquility in your mind, so I'd say your experience was further than the first jhana.
Funny though, at first there was a bit of anxiety present as I kept expecting something. When nothing negative at all was happening, I REALLY thought something BIG was gonna happen. It took a bit of time to drop this expectation and really just enjoy the experience, and to just remind myself that even if something did happen; so what, its just another stroll in the park.
I think it's all about being in the now or just experiencing whatever is happening in the present moment without craving for anything and letting whatever is going to happen, happen. Everything arises and passes away. Just watch it and let it go, don't get involved with it. That's what I've learned from meditation so far. I believe meditation teaches you everything.
110% Agreed ;D
-
You are indeed deep down in the rabbit hole, Cal. I hope to join you one day, and we can ask the mad hatter if he's figured out what the answer is to his riddle, "Why is a raven like a writing desk?" LOL
When you fully fall down the rabbit hole, then make friends with a raven while camping in the wilderness for a few years, and OOBE with the ravens, then your friend the raven comes to die by you, with a flock of his relatives for his funeral, then you will know why a raven is like a writing desk.
I can understand the aversion, but not the grasping. When you recognize the charisms, you bring full awareness to them and grasp them gently. I recall reading an essay from Jeff about how it can be much like riding a horse in that you, as the rider, must maintain a firm grip, but not a taught grip on the reigns of the horse, otherwise the horse would rather just eat the grass in front of him. He used this analogy in the context of OOBE, yet I believe it applies here as well.
Precisely.
I had a break through today as well. I had a couple of head orgasms. I experienced this mild explosive feeling of radiance and expansion in the head when I placed my attention on the pressure sensations in the head. I felt it could go further, but it didn't. It's 1st jhana stuff, I'd say.
Good work Michel. Now the challenge will be make this happen every time you meditate. The second jhana is the stilling of the mind. The big stuff, like the feeling that your head is exploding is more typical of the 3rd and 4th jhanas.
-
Lately I have been trying to keep some measure of time to my meditations, as recently, I have been taking my rest periods for 12+ hours. I've always been one to stay up late, as most of my working career was on the graveyard shift, and I've just kept near that schedule. But I've never really slept for so long. As a matter of fact, when I was working, I would rarely sleep more than 5-6 hours. So, the last 3 nights, instead of snapping myself out of the meditative state and just rolling over to sleep, I've thought to check a clock. I've noticed my meditations have been anywhere from 2-4 hours-so that at least accounts for a portion of my rest period.
These meditations have been extremely deep. I feel as though I have connected with my inner self in a way I had not known before. The meditation progressions are swift; with my only enemy being my "rouge mind". The odd thing though, random thoughts or "awareness darting" really only seems to get in the way near the climax's of these meditations. It seems as though I am able to keep a constant awareness on the charisms, whether they be the audio charism, or the breeze upon the skin, all while having a brief reminder that there is something that I should not forget in the coming days. I should note that these thoughts are only a single arising thought, and I will only briefly entertain them, nonetheless, even this single thought arising can get in the way when moving into the 5th.
Which brings me to that place. Over and over again, while in the void where I do not feel my physical body, there comes this hissing, surging, rushing, sparkling, vacuum, amazing-ness. This is where my "rouge mind", or even awareness darting from event to event, gets me into trouble. I've learned how to return to this place, where all this wild stuff starts happening, but not how to surrender to it. Theres always something that will distract my awareness from this very beautiful thing. Whether that be that my breathe is constricted to where it feels like I cannot exhale, or that my heart begins to beat rapidly and is like a bass drum throughout my entire body. These 2 are the usual culprits, but, occasionally it can be an out of left field random thought; "I really like blue". ::)
These last couple weeks in this place have changed my perspective massively. For one, I think I have a much better understanding of why physical health has earned its emphasis here. To be honest, while it is of course a natural thing to be concerned about health, I used to be unsure about how it may have an effect on meditation. Let's just say I've learned that even the slightest joint inflammation feels like fire if you're aware of it for the span of hours. I also learned that I have a slight amount of swelling in my gums that I was unaware of previously lol.
There was this sort of "flatness" that started to come over my "body" that I havent felt before tonight. It was in the 4th, as there was only a void (except for a shifting awareness of a heartbeat and breath), except there was a familiar shitbag heat to it. So as this flatness systematically came over me, something started pulling my arm. I wrestled with allowing it to move, gently, but as I did so, my sit regressed. Apparently stopping movement or resisting them requires more cognition than I am allowed in that space. So I let it go until my arm was fully extended. Then the same thing happened with my head. It was moved from an upright position, while prone, laying on my back, to my left cheek laying flat on the couch where I was meditating. I've felt this kind of crap before, but never really so gently. In the past it has been yanks and awkwardness. I do not think this was connected with the flatness Im talking about, only that it happened around the same time. This flatness was like pouring a film of liquid over a surface, however it did not have a liquid feel, I only use it to describe how it slowly crept over me. It was much like when I first began meditating deeply, in the 2nd-3rd, scanning in awareness and the charisms slowly engulfing me. But this only had heat and a flatness...idk
Man, the kriya was intense tonight as well. I had major muscle spasms in large muscle groups. I swear, if someone had been watching me, Im sure they would have thought I was having a seizure at times. Super awesome though, as it was also newish in the extent of them, so it helped me with equanimity. They didnt distract me long, but when your thigh muscle spasms and kicks up, it warrants a small reaction ;).
I feel as though I should start a mid day meditation to go with the waking/before sleep. There are times before my night meditation that I can become uneasy. If I can say anything, having an awareness to whats around me has been one of my bigger challenges. For example, 3 nights ago I believe, something came rushing past me. This was a good feeling, thankfully, and that nights meditation was asshat free. If I was paying better attention at the time, I would have thanked them, as Im sure it had something to do with the peaceful meditation. Ya, the midday meditation could definitely do some good.
On a final note, I've been having very long, continuous dreams. These dreams are extremely intriguing...and even entertaining at times haha. The other night for a good long while, I was a pirate on a ship. Splendid detail in what was going on, the events, my "same" personality. I didnt have a close connected feeling in this one though, although I did have a a knowledge of what was to come, somehow someway. It ended in a flash and a new one started, idk maybe I got bored with it haha. The dreams arent always very vivid, as most have been "distant", but it seems like all of them have their moments of lucidity. I should make a note to remind myself to "wake up" during them, after I end my night meditation.
Thanks again for listening to my rants GWV =). If you guys have any advice on the transition to the 5th, or about these newer things that are happening, it would be much appreciated. If not, thats ok too, as I really do love the place I am in now, and I know ill get used to it eventually ;D.
-
Lately I have been trying to keep some measure of time to my meditations, as recently, I have been taking my rest periods for 12+ hours. I've always been one to stay up late, as most of my working career was on the graveyard shift, and I've just kept near that schedule. But I've never really slept for so long. As a matter of fact, when I was working, I would rarely sleep more than 5-6 hours. So, the last 3 nights, instead of snapping myself out of the meditative state and just rolling over to sleep, I've thought to check a clock. I've noticed my meditations have been anywhere from 2-4 hours-so that at least accounts for a portion of my rest period.
When I decided to see what would happen if I meditated as long as I could, I too resorted to checking a clock before and after the sit. If an hour had not gone by, then I sat longer. Eventually it averaged 2 hour sits, which led to the superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala).
These meditations have been extremely deep. I feel as though I have connected with my inner self in a way I had not known before. The meditation progressions are swift; with my only enemy being my "rouge mind". The odd thing though, random thoughts or "awareness darting" really only seems to get in the way near the climax's of these meditations. It seems as though I am able to keep a constant awareness on the charisms, whether they be the audio charism, or the breeze upon the skin, all while having a brief reminder that there is something that I should not forget in the coming days. I should note that these thoughts are only a single arising thought, and I will only briefly entertain them, nonetheless, even this single thought arising can get in the way when moving into the 5th.
A still mind is all one needs, so one with a still mind need not worry about a "rough" mind. One of the aides that I resorted to decades ago for keeping the mind still throughout the day was keeping a piece of paper or not pad and pencil in my shirt pocket, and jotting down a note to remind me of something that kept coming the mind while meditating. That way, my mind could let go of the persistent recollection of something important.
Which brings me to that place. Over and over again, while in the void where I do not feel my physical body, there comes this hissing, surging, rushing, sparkling, vacuum, amazing-ness. This is where my "rouge mind", or even awareness darting from event to event, gets me into trouble. I've learned how to return to this place, where all this wild stuff starts happening, but not how to surrender to it. Theres always something that will distract my awareness from this very beautiful thing. Whether that be that my breathe is constricted to where it feels like I cannot exhale, or that my heart begins to beat rapidly and is like a bass drum throughout my entire body. These 2 are the usual culprits, but, occasionally it can be an out of left field random thought; "I really like blue". ::)
You are so very close. I am certain that if you just get very good at maintaining a still mind throughout the day, then so much more "amazing-ness" will happen for you.
These last couple weeks in this place have changed my perspective massively. For one, I think I have a much better understanding of why physical health has earned its emphasis here. To be honest, while it is of course a natural thing to be concerned about health, I used to be unsure about how it may have an effect on meditation. Let's just say I've learned that even the slightest joint inflammation feels like fire if you're aware of it for the span of hours. I also learned that I have a slight amount of swelling in my gums that I was unaware of previously lol.
Yes, mindful self-awareness brings our attention to the body's state of health; and the discipline that comes from leading a mindful self-aware lifestyle comes to our aide to make the necessary lifestyle changes for our health, which in turn benefits our contemplative life.
There was this sort of "flatness" that started to come over my "body" that I havent felt before tonight. It was in the 4th, as there was only a void (except for a shifting awareness of a heartbeat and breath), except there was a familiar shitbag heat to it. So as this flatness systematically came over me, something started pulling my arm. I wrestled with allowing it to move, gently, but as I did so, my sit regressed. Apparently stopping movement or resisting them requires more cognition than I am allowed in that space. So I let it go until my arm was fully extended. Then the same thing happened with my head. It was moved from an upright position, while prone, laying on my back, to my left cheek laying flat on the couch where I was meditating. I've felt this kind of crap before, but never really so gently. In the past it has been yanks and awkwardness. I do not think this was connected with the flatness Im talking about, only that it happened around the same time. This flatness was like pouring a film of liquid over a surface, however it did not have a liquid feel, I only use it to describe how it slowly crept over me. It was much like when I first began meditating deeply, in the 2nd-3rd, scanning in awareness and the charisms slowly engulfing me. But this only had heat and a flatness...idk
This could be scary to a person who is not prepared for the strange world of the immaterial domains. Eventually you will become invisible to the demons, then they will not be able to effect you.
Man, the kriya was intense tonight as well. I had major muscle spasms in large muscle groups. I swear, if someone had been watching me, Im sure they would have thought I was having a seizure at times. Super awesome though, as it was also newish in the extent of them, so it helped me with equanimity. They didnt distract me long, but when your thigh muscle spasms and kicks up, it warrants a small reaction ;).
Yes, the kriya is a wonderful release. Those who meditate deeply will keep having them until the stresses, which cause the build up of energy in the physiology, are finally gone.
I feel as though I should start a mid day meditation to go with the waking/before sleep. There are times before my night meditation that I can become uneasy. If I can say anything, having an awareness to whats around me has been one of my bigger challenges. For example, 3 nights ago I believe, something came rushing past me. This was a good feeling, thankfully, and that nights meditation was asshat free. If I was paying better attention at the time, I would have thanked them, as Im sure it had something to do with the peaceful meditation. Ya, the midday meditation could definitely do some good.
It sounds like you are starting to become transparent.
On a final note, I've been having very long, continuous dreams. These dreams are extremely intriguing...and even entertaining at times haha. The other night for a good long while, I was a pirate on a ship. Splendid detail in what was going on, the events, my "same" personality. I didnt have a close connected feeling in this one though, although I did have a a knowledge of what was to come, somehow someway. It ended in a flash and a new one started, idk maybe I got bored with it haha. The dreams arent always very vivid, as most have been "distant", but it seems like all of them have their moments of lucidity. I should make a note to remind myself to "wake up" during them, after I end my night meditation.
It sounds like you are building lucidity in the sleep domain. Very good.
Thanks again for listening to my rants GWV =). If you guys have any advice on the transition to the 5th, or about these newer things that are happening, it would be much appreciated. If not, thats ok too, as I really do love the place I am in now, and I know ill get used to it eventually ;D.
Just attend to stilling your mind in every moment. The rest comes along when you are ready.
-
You are indeed deep down in the rabbit hole, Cal. I hope to join you one day, and we can ask the mad hatter if he's figured out what the answer is to his riddle, "Why is a raven like a writing desk?" LOL
When you fully fall down the rabbit hole, then make friends with a raven while camping in the wilderness for a few years, and OOBE with the ravens, then your friend the raven comes to die by you, with a flock of his relatives for his funeral, then you will know why a raven is like a writing desk.
I would like to have the same experience one day, Jeffrey. Are ravens capable of OOBE experiences on their own, or did you bring them along for a ride?
-
I know why a raven is like a writing desk. It's because they both stand on their legs. LOL
-
I would like to have the same experience one day, Jeffrey. Are ravens capable of OOBE experiences on their own, or did you bring them along for a ride?
Yes, of course, ravens and all other creatures are capable of an OOBE. Have you never observed a dog dreaming?
I know why a raven is like a writing desk. It's because they both stand on their legs. LOL
I was thinking more abstractly, but thanks for delivering the punch line.
I recall that summer that I spent so much time in the wilderness, and away from humans, that I began to forget how to speak, while learning to understand what the ravens said to each other, which for me was how a raven is like a writing desk, or a means of communication, because they chatter amongst themselves, much like humans do.
-
I would like to have the same experience one day, Jeffrey. Are ravens capable of OOBE experiences on their own, or did you bring them along for a ride?
Yes, of course, ravens and all other creatures are capable of an OOBE. Have you never observed a dog dreaming?
Are you suggesting that dreaming is an OOBE?
-
No, but lucid dreaming and the OOBE are closely related. When a dog is twitching while asleep, it looks to me like it believes that it is running in a dream, which is most probably lucid, and thus possibly an OOBE. However, when we go OOBE on the lower levels, then often we encounter people who are just dreaming. It is all part of the collective unconscious, where people, and other creatures, who dream lucidly are not unconscious.
-
I can understand the aversion, but not the grasping. When you recognize the charisms, you bring full awareness to them and grasp them gently. I recall reading an essay from Jeff about how it can be much like riding a horse in that you, as the rider, must maintain a firm grip, but not a taught grip on the reigns of the horse, otherwise the horse would rather just eat the grass in front of him. He used this analogy in the context of OOBE, yet I believe it applies here as well. The balance of aversion and grasping falls more into the context of your thoughts or unpleasant feelings or the "rogue mind", at least thats what I've found in meditation. When I've relaxed sufficiently to be the "rider", its in the tingling or cool breeze upon the surface of my skin that I grasp; its everything else that I let fall away.
Sorry for not responding to your comments, Cal. I appreciate whatever it is you write. Yes, grasping the meditation object is one of the things I find important. I like the other analogy that Jeffrey uses where its like how one holds on to a dancing partner...
-
It sounds like you opened your crown chakra. That radiance Michel, look for it elsewhere. You might feel that same radiant feeling on the tips of your fingers or the bottoms of your feet. You could even feel it now. Close your eyes. Take a deep, relaxing breath. As you exhale, place your awareness onto your hands. Hold off on the inhale for a moment, and search in awareness for what may or may not be there. It may take a couple of inhale/exhales to relax.
It would likely be second jhana if youre feeling that haha. Good work! Remember, the first jhana is nothing more than a pleasant abiding in your religious activity. Youre not likely to have the awareness of a radiant feeling until youve found some measure of tranquility in your mind, so I'd say your experience was further than the first jhana.
Yes, I'm experiencing these extremely deep spontaneous breaths, as well as the breath holding itself spontaneously. The teeth become clenched, then this intense energy starts to buildup swirling about in the head, feet, legs and chest that lasts maybe anywhere from a few seconds to maybe 30 seconds. The head and upper body are trembling, and the eyelids are flickering. I feel like I'm going to break the sound barrier. There's no full body saturation yet. These are new things that I haven't experienced before.
I don't know if I'm beyond the first jhana because there's still thinking going on, and there is very little joy.
-
Yes, I'm experiencing these extremely deep spontaneous breaths, as well as the breath holding itself spontaneously. The teeth become clenched, then this intense energy starts to buildup swirling about in the head, feet, legs and chest that lasts maybe anywhere from a few seconds to maybe 30 seconds. The head and upper body are trembling, and the eyelids are flickering. I feel like I'm going to break the sound barrier. There's no full body saturation yet. These are new things that I haven't experienced before.
This is it. Just keep going, and keep doing whatever makes it happen consistently.
-
Michel, it seems that your kundalini is trying to break loose. I've taught a few students with the same symptoms and within one month they have a violent kundalini awakening. Good work.
-
Hey Michel, sorry its taken me awhile to get back to you as well. I think you're making great progress. Also, if you are returning to your practice regularly you have found some measure of joy in it. It took me quite awhile to unpack my own perceptions of the charisms. With some work I was able to hone in on some of the more subtle details, and in that, I found a much greater appreciation for them. I'll give a distant example. On the worst of days where everything has just been shit the entire day, the thought of meditation and refuge calms me. This thought of refuge brings about a sort of joy, that is so subtle that if Im not completely silent, I may miss it. However, when you have returned to it so many times, you just know its there.
Cheers Michel, I'm very happy for you =)
-
Thank-you for your kind words, Cal.
Come to think of it, there is a certain amount of low-level joy that arises when I consider that my meditation practice is a refuge to the hell of this earthly existence.
I expect that the joy will increase as I continue to evolve in time.
-
Michel, it seems that your kundalini is trying to break loose. I've taught a few students with the same symptoms and within one month they have a violent kundalini awakening. Good work.
Thank-you for the encouragement, Sam.
If you feel the earth tremble in Singapore, then you'll know it was my awakening.
-
Yes, I'm experiencing these extremely deep spontaneous breaths, as well as the breath holding itself spontaneously. The teeth become clenched, then this intense energy starts to buildup swirling about in the head, feet, legs and chest that lasts maybe anywhere from a few seconds to maybe 30 seconds. The head and upper body are trembling, and the eyelids are flickering. I feel like I'm going to break the sound barrier. There's no full body saturation yet. These are new things that I haven't experienced before.
This is it. Just keep going, and keep doing whatever makes it happen consistently.
Thank-you for your encouragement and guidance, Jeffrey.
-
It sounds like you opened your crown chakra. That radiance Michel, look for it elsewhere. You might feel that same radiant feeling on the tips of your fingers or the bottoms of your feet. You could even feel it now. Close your eyes. Take a deep, relaxing breath. As you exhale, place your awareness onto your hands. Hold off on the inhale for a moment, and search in awareness for what may or may not be there. It may take a couple of inhale/exhales to relax.
It would likely be second jhana if youre feeling that haha. Good work! Remember, the first jhana is nothing more than a pleasant abiding in your religious activity. Youre not likely to have the awareness of a radiant feeling until youve found some measure of tranquility in your mind, so I'd say your experience was further than the first jhana.
Yes, I'm experiencing these extremely deep spontaneous breaths, as well as the breath holding itself spontaneously. The teeth become clenched, then this intense energy starts to buildup swirling about in the head, feet, legs and chest that lasts maybe anywhere from a few seconds to maybe 30 seconds. The head and upper body are trembling, and the eyelids are flickering. I feel like I'm going to break the sound barrier. There's no full body saturation yet. These are new things that I haven't experienced before.
I don't know if I'm beyond the first jhana because there's still thinking going on, and there is very little joy.
I have similar experiences like these recently as well although my meditation sessions are no longer as good as they used to be (what with worries about money, stock market, etc.
Usually I'll be lying in my bed sleeping or lying down on the floor to meditate when it happens. I can feel a deep rumble in my torso and my head, as if a Mustang car is revving up and ready to go fast and furious any time soon. I can also 'hear' that deep rumble when it happens. And after about 10 to 20 seconds, I would suddenly just snap out of it and the episode would be over.
Come to think of it, this energy-rumbling sensation is also there when I used to have my flying lucid dream/OOBE episode. Hmmmm.....
-
Usually I'll be lying in my bed sleeping or lying down on the floor to meditate when it happens. I can feel a deep rumble in my torso and my head, as if a Mustang car is revving up and ready to go fast and furious any time soon. I can also 'hear' that deep rumble when it happens. And after about 10 to 20 seconds, I would suddenly just snap out of it and the episode would be over.
Come to think of it, this energy-rumbling sensation is also there when I used to have my flying lucid dream/OOBE episode. Hmmmm.....
In my case I don't hear any rumbling sounds, it's bodily trembling only.
-
Hello GWV. While work and life have definitely contributed to my absence, there was also a specific incident that left me in a great amount of pain. I've spent the last few months droning away, working long hours and simply providing, being there, contributing. Since finding the charisms, Ive encountered one hurdle after another. Some of them taking longer than others to overcome. This one I may never overcome. But, thankfully, the sting of it has lessened since the experience, and so I'd like to share. I havent given up. I will not give up. I just needed some time.
Back in December/January I started focusing alot of attention on remembering my dreams. I started journaling specifically. It was fruitful. I was to a point where I would recall them in almost perfect detail a few times a week. I wasnt expecting what happened. As a matter of fact, this thought was far far from my mind.
Jhanon and I took a trip to AZ in February to meet with Jhananda. Was a good trip, one I am very glad I took. Meeting Jeff really helped me in alot of ways. I believe it was the second night, I had an extremely lucid dream. This one I could recall all details, start to finish; in all their horror. Without going to much into detail, I watched my young daughter be killed by an 18 wheeler. I had told her to come out of the road the instant it happened, but I was too late. Every last detail...
The next morning I told Jeff about the dream and was rather upset by it. Awhile later Jhanon joined us by the fire pit. The conversation led to him telling a story of what led him to the path. His girlfriend was involved in an accident in highschool. She was killed by a truck. Jhanon recounted my dream almost down to the last detail.
I have had alot of questions, and many more doubts. Mostly, this fear drove me to be as close to my daughter as I possibly could be. I gave up my resistance of conformity, and gave in to my wife. Fear has become a primary driver in my life. All the while I was giving in to death, allowing myself to become a conduit, progressing, the thought never crossed my mind that my child could be gone in the blink of an eye.
Thankfully, this was only a dream. The details of this dream were so vivid that even now I struggle to separate it from reality. What I felt then is as real as I breathe now. I wasnt ready, and I did not expect to ever experience something like this. And Jhanon....he lived it, it is reality for him, even if far removed.
So, I've taken a break for meditation. Although the charisms are still with me, and I still lucid dream, I think I still need time.
-
Thank-you, Cal, for posting your blog entry. When we begin to become lucid in the sleep state we often become aware of powerful fears being manifested in our dream-world. Also, when we lead a contemplative life we often develop sensitivity to others around us. So, combining these to experience, then we can have lucid dream content that might just belong to someone else, and/or their world view. This means we need a great deal of equanimity to negotiate these powerful subjective experience, which is why we need to learn to meditate to the depth of the 3rd jhana or better, as soon as we can, and maintain that depth through daily meditation practice.
-
It has been some years since I last posted here, honestly, I regret this now. The charisms have never left. I feel as though all progress that I made has never left. If I were to meditate now I would drop into the 4th jhana almost immediately. I still see it - the Kasina - all I need to do is place my attention to the third eye chakra and within minutes - the misshapen puddle of beautiful gold forms a pearl - I watch it as it brisks away from me - inviting, only to return as a puddle and repeat. My crown chakra opens and this is my que to step out of the vehicle…
Many times over these years I have resided, followed, allowed, given way only to find myself searching for them. I hate them. I once thought that simply defining what is, was enough. At some point simply defining fear - and cognitively deciding that courage was the answer to fear - it brought me to the place I reside now. In my mind it is impossible not to seek them out - and I understand why, but perhaps it is time to combat fear with understanding instead. It will be difficult because I know they can hurt me - they have. It makes me want to hurt them… I feel that “The Dark Night of the soul” is an understatement.
I apologize for bringing negativity. I hope for a small amount of understanding in that this is my current struggle.
-
Hi Cal,
it is great to see you posting on the forum. Can you explain more about the fears you are facing?
-
Cal, you are making such good progress. It is so good to see you posting here again.